To fayyaz vallani : Ya Ali Madad.
Nice question,I will post my opinion later.
Are you the same Fayaz003 or other number earlier in this website?
Why Do God Test Us?
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shivaathervedi
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shivaathervedi
- Posts: 1107
- Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:39 pm
AAGAR HAATT NA PAATT NA WOHRAnuseri wrote:Ya Ali Madad:
Does the word Aa sansaar mahe.
Mean this world.
Or it means
This world and also beyond other world/worlds
This is not an expansion but open fabrication and manuplilation of the written text posted for reference.( blinded as per Hz Ali farman)
Testing is on EARTH & EARTH only.
TIYAY(N) SATT KA SAMAT SATHEY LIANA
Pir Sadardin.
Mowla Ali and Imams have talked about AKHIRAT (here after, rewards and punishiments for actions (good deeds and bad). A criminal can run away from rule of law but not from justice of God.
Testing on Earth means BELIEVING IN KARMA. Even it also means after death punishment, back to sansaar. According to Karma punishment can be stone, grass, tree, monkey, donkey, elephant, depends.
BHALEY RE BHAI TAMEY KAR LIO KAMAI
BHAI APNA KIA TAMEY PAOGEY RE
EJI MAHESAR VERA MA(N)HEY THORAJ NAHI
TIYYA(N) KIYU(N) KARI MUKH DIKHLAOGEY RE
Syed Muhammad Shah
Ya Ali Madad:
Soul can punished at extreme level to any element on EARTH.
that can be a serpent or even volcanic dust.
So unifying after death is misunderstood concept. and aftermath is Here and Here only.
Even after death of prophet, IMAM SMS has he achieved Companionship of HIGH that is life in part of Ahle Bayt of ALI which we observe as Noor e pirantan.
There is Ayat that there is hell for those who wrong the the words of Allah.
That is misunderstanding, distorting, fabrication ,manipulation of ayats,farmans is sure hell as above likely element for million years sentence .
Soul can punished at extreme level to any element on EARTH.
that can be a serpent or even volcanic dust.
So unifying after death is misunderstood concept. and aftermath is Here and Here only.
Even after death of prophet, IMAM SMS has he achieved Companionship of HIGH that is life in part of Ahle Bayt of ALI which we observe as Noor e pirantan.
There is Ayat that there is hell for those who wrong the the words of Allah.
That is misunderstanding, distorting, fabrication ,manipulation of ayats,farmans is sure hell as above likely element for million years sentence .
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shivaathervedi
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If some one believes in Karma philosophy and thinks punishment and rewards are earth bound is good for him to be turned in volcanic dust or a serpent.
Being as Muslims, Ismailis do not believe in Karma philosophy.
Where in Quran is written punishment in Hell will be for millions of years?
One should read the meaning of Quran and understand philosophy there in beside reading Islamic and Ismaili literature on this subject.
Being as Muslims, Ismailis do not believe in Karma philosophy.
Where in Quran is written punishment in Hell will be for millions of years?
One should read the meaning of Quran and understand philosophy there in beside reading Islamic and Ismaili literature on this subject.
There are 2 mistakes in your above statement.shivaathervedi wrote: Being as Muslims, Ismailis do not believe in Karma philosophy.
a) Ismailis believe in Karma.
Karam karoge to sharam rahegi.
b) Ismailis who believe in Karma are Muslims
therefore Muslims believe in Karma, at least the followers of Noor e Imamat.
Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah has said if calamities falls upon you, do not complain, for these calamities wash your sins. [This is Karma]
As far as I know, you have no power to make Fatwas on who is Muslim and who is not. Our Imam can excommunicate any Muslim from Islam but you can not.
You have said in the past that Ismailis do not believe in Reincarnation, Ali Sahi Allah and all of the fundamentals because Muslims do not believe in those concepts. Then perhaps the best course to take for you would be to become "Muslim" instead of "Ismaili".
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shivaathervedi
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There aren't any mistakes in my post but in fact you made blunder writing without thinking. Revisit the meaning of Ginanic line you quoted You wrote;Admin wrote:There are 2 mistakes in your above statement.shivaathervedi wrote: Being as Muslims, Ismailis do not believe in Karma philosophy.
a) Ismailis believe in Karma.
Karam karoge to sharam rahegi.
b) Ismailis who believe in Karma are Muslims
therefore Muslims believe in Karma, at least the followers of Noor e Imamat.
Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah has said if calamities falls upon you, do not complain, for these calamities wash your sins. [This is Karma]
As far as I know, you have no power to make Fatwas on who is Muslim and who is not. Our Imam can excommunicate any Muslim from Islam but you can not.
You have said in the past that Ismailis do not believe in Reincarnation, Ali Sahi Allah and all of the fundamentals because Muslims do not believe in those concepts. Then perhaps the best course to take for you would be to become "Muslim" instead of "Ismaili".
KARAM KAROGEY TO SHARAM RAHEY GI
Here KARAM means Kindness, benevolence and not KARMA (reincanation philosophy), wake up maestro. Read the answer which MSMS wrote to count Paro, when he asked question about 'REINCARNATION'. MSMS negated that Hindu Karma philosophy.
I did not issued Fatwa but my answer is simple and plain Ismailis do not believe in Karma. If you think Ismailis are not Muslims that is your FATWA.
Please if you want to discuss Ali Allah topic or reincarnation post in proper thread, do not open a new thread, I am returning your words to you, how is that!! In Du'a book published by ALL ITREBS, the meaning of ALIYULLAH is,
"ALI IS FROM ALLAH". Please note I did not published Du'a meaning books.
Ya Ali Madad:
Maybe 25/30 years back An Ismail bhagat from mumbai took a petition on IIS nursery book and translation of Dua in ITREB booklet.
He said is either change kuluu allahuahad as Allah is from A had or Ali or change Aliullah to Ali is Allah.This matter was discreetly put to rest as not arouse sentiment among ( non Ismailis) on long term basis.( as Ismailis have to live within the law of the land
Tariqa board mean they can end intrepation ( or keep at varing levels) at tariqa level ,where print is concern.
That is why we have verbal Alwaez inspiring haqiqati concept
Tariqa is a frame seen as square or oblong but further on it a cube ,which other five sides are facets of haqiqati & marifat.
On basis of Allahuahad the word for Ismailis to understand is Ali is Allah but in print a masked presentation is Ali is from Allah that also is relative truth based on Imam Aga Ali shah farman and Imam Jaffer sadiq clearly explianing in SIMPLE LANGUAGE WHAT the word and name Allah means ,which I a implied in today's time in.mathematical game of 1+0= 1 .
So absulute truth from above Farmans and logic is that 1= 1 and 1 is from one.
Admin will asked after death why he knowlingly carried so much rubbish for long time.PRICE IS THERE TO PAID even by haqiqati and all of us for next phase.
In my poem which was to be sung.the jamati leader advised that to change the word from
Haqiqato ka khuda tuhi. to haqq tuhii,pyaar,pita,I gave this alternate.
to Haqiqatio ka IMAAN tuhi.
I told them below that level word ( imaan )please better reject the whole geet.
There are compulsions where printing, recording and presentations are concerned at tariqati platform
MHI has said IMAMAT is beyond comprehension ,same what Allah said in Quran.( not competitors but same entity ).
In his speech MHI said ( maybe not exact wording).
One cannot articulate the tariqat if one CANNOT articulate the concept of the IMAMAT.
can anyone post the exact wordings.
So if one doest accept the truth of IMAMAT.
Hadith goes.
That Ali postition ( IMAMAT) is that like of Allahuahad in Surah of Quran.
Maybe 25/30 years back An Ismail bhagat from mumbai took a petition on IIS nursery book and translation of Dua in ITREB booklet.
He said is either change kuluu allahuahad as Allah is from A had or Ali or change Aliullah to Ali is Allah.This matter was discreetly put to rest as not arouse sentiment among ( non Ismailis) on long term basis.( as Ismailis have to live within the law of the land
Tariqa board mean they can end intrepation ( or keep at varing levels) at tariqa level ,where print is concern.
That is why we have verbal Alwaez inspiring haqiqati concept
Tariqa is a frame seen as square or oblong but further on it a cube ,which other five sides are facets of haqiqati & marifat.
On basis of Allahuahad the word for Ismailis to understand is Ali is Allah but in print a masked presentation is Ali is from Allah that also is relative truth based on Imam Aga Ali shah farman and Imam Jaffer sadiq clearly explianing in SIMPLE LANGUAGE WHAT the word and name Allah means ,which I a implied in today's time in.mathematical game of 1+0= 1 .
So absulute truth from above Farmans and logic is that 1= 1 and 1 is from one.
Admin will asked after death why he knowlingly carried so much rubbish for long time.PRICE IS THERE TO PAID even by haqiqati and all of us for next phase.
In my poem which was to be sung.the jamati leader advised that to change the word from
Haqiqato ka khuda tuhi. to haqq tuhii,pyaar,pita,I gave this alternate.
to Haqiqatio ka IMAAN tuhi.
I told them below that level word ( imaan )please better reject the whole geet.
There are compulsions where printing, recording and presentations are concerned at tariqati platform
MHI has said IMAMAT is beyond comprehension ,same what Allah said in Quran.( not competitors but same entity ).
In his speech MHI said ( maybe not exact wording).
One cannot articulate the tariqat if one CANNOT articulate the concept of the IMAMAT.
can anyone post the exact wordings.
So if one doest accept the truth of IMAMAT.
Hadith goes.
That Ali postition ( IMAMAT) is that like of Allahuahad in Surah of Quran.
Trials & tribulations.
Trials
Written by Lynell Waterman
You perhaps recall the story of the blacksmith who gave his heart to
God. Though conscientious in his living, still he was not prospering
materially. In fact, it seems that from the time of his conversion
more trouble, affliction and loss were sustained than ever before.
Everything seemed to be going wrong.
One day a friend who stopped at the little gorge
to talk to him. Sympathizing with him in some of his trials, the
friend said "It seems strange to me that so much affliction should
pass over you . Of course, I don't want to weaken your faith in God or
anything like that. But here you are, God's help and guidance, and
yet things seem to be getting steadily worse. I can't help wondering
why it is."
The blacksmith did not answer immediately, and it was evident that he
had thought the same question before. But finally, he said "You see
here the raw iron which I have to make into horse's shoes. You know
what I do with it? I take a piece and heat it in the fire until it is
red, almost white with the heat. Then I hammer it unmercifully to
shape it as I know it should be shaped. Then I plunge it into a pail
of cold water to temper it. Then I heat it again and hammer it some
more. And this I do until it is finished."
"But sometimes I find a piece of iron that won't stand up under this
treatment. The heat and the hammering and the cold water are too much
for it. I don't know why it fails in the process, but I know it will
never make a good horse's shoe." He pointed to a heap of scrap iron
that was near the door of his shop. "When I get a piece that cannot
take the shape and temper, I throw it out on the scrap heap. It will
never be good for anything."
He went on, "I know that God has been holding me in the fires of
affliction and I have felt His hammer upon me. But I don't mind, if
only He can bring me to what I should be. And so, in all these hard
things my prayer is simply this: Try me in any way you wish, Lord,
only don't throw me on the scrap heap."
======================================================
"As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to
remake the world -- that is the myth of the atomic age -- as in being
able to remake ourselves."
-- Mahatma Gandhi
Trials
Written by Lynell Waterman
You perhaps recall the story of the blacksmith who gave his heart to
God. Though conscientious in his living, still he was not prospering
materially. In fact, it seems that from the time of his conversion
more trouble, affliction and loss were sustained than ever before.
Everything seemed to be going wrong.
One day a friend who stopped at the little gorge
to talk to him. Sympathizing with him in some of his trials, the
friend said "It seems strange to me that so much affliction should
pass over you . Of course, I don't want to weaken your faith in God or
anything like that. But here you are, God's help and guidance, and
yet things seem to be getting steadily worse. I can't help wondering
why it is."
The blacksmith did not answer immediately, and it was evident that he
had thought the same question before. But finally, he said "You see
here the raw iron which I have to make into horse's shoes. You know
what I do with it? I take a piece and heat it in the fire until it is
red, almost white with the heat. Then I hammer it unmercifully to
shape it as I know it should be shaped. Then I plunge it into a pail
of cold water to temper it. Then I heat it again and hammer it some
more. And this I do until it is finished."
"But sometimes I find a piece of iron that won't stand up under this
treatment. The heat and the hammering and the cold water are too much
for it. I don't know why it fails in the process, but I know it will
never make a good horse's shoe." He pointed to a heap of scrap iron
that was near the door of his shop. "When I get a piece that cannot
take the shape and temper, I throw it out on the scrap heap. It will
never be good for anything."
He went on, "I know that God has been holding me in the fires of
affliction and I have felt His hammer upon me. But I don't mind, if
only He can bring me to what I should be. And so, in all these hard
things my prayer is simply this: Try me in any way you wish, Lord,
only don't throw me on the scrap heap."
======================================================
"As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to
remake the world -- that is the myth of the atomic age -- as in being
able to remake ourselves."
-- Mahatma Gandhi
*****kmaherali wrote:Trials & tribulations.
Trials
Written by Lynell Waterman
You perhaps recall the story of the blacksmith who gave his heart to
God. Though conscientious in his living, still he was not prospering
materially. In fact, it seems that from the time of his conversion
more trouble, affliction and loss were sustained than ever before.
Everything seemed to be going wrong.
One day a friend who stopped at the little gorge
to talk to him. Sympathizing with him in some of his trials, the
friend said "It seems strange to me that so much affliction should
pass over you . Of course, I don't want to weaken your faith in God or
anything like that. But here you are, God's help and guidance, and
yet things seem to be getting steadily worse. I can't help wondering
why it is."
The blacksmith did not answer immediately, and it was evident that he
had thought the same question before. But finally, he said "You see
here the raw iron which I have to make into horse's shoes. You know
what I do with it? I take a piece and heat it in the fire until it is
red, almost white with the heat. Then I hammer it unmercifully to
shape it as I know it should be shaped. Then I plunge it into a pail
of cold water to temper it. Then I heat it again and hammer it some
more. And this I do until it is finished."
"But sometimes I find a piece of iron that won't stand up under this
treatment. The heat and the hammering and the cold water are too much
for it. I don't know why it fails in the process, but I know it will
never make a good horse's shoe." He pointed to a heap of scrap iron
that was near the door of his shop. "When I get a piece that cannot
take the shape and temper, I throw it out on the scrap heap. It will
never be good for anything."
He went on, "I know that God has been holding me in the fires of
affliction and I have felt His hammer upon me. But I don't mind, if
only He can bring me to what I should be. And so, in all these hard
things my prayer is simply this: Try me in any way you wish, Lord,
only don't throw me on the scrap heap."
======================================================
"As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to
remake the world -- that is the myth of the atomic age -- as in being
able to remake ourselves."
-- Mahatma Gandhi
I Trust You
The soul is a newly skinned hide, bloody
and gross. Work on it with manual discipline,
and the bitter tanning acid of grief.
You’ll become lovely and very strong.
If you can’t do this work yourself, don’t worry.
You don’t have to make a decision, one way or another.
The Friend, who knows a lot more than you do,
will bring difficulties and grief and sickness,
as medicine, as happiness, as the moment
when you’re beaten, when you hear Checkmate,
and can finally say with Hallaj’s voice,
I trust you to kill me.
- Rumi
From The Book of Love
Translated by Coleman Barks
http://rumi-poem.blogspot.ca/2013/02/i-trust-you.html
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FayyazValani2017
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:56 am
Ya Ali Madad
Thank you kaheralii , - That story help me alot . God test us so he can give us rewards .
But God knows if he is going to fail or if he is going to pass , what do God dont give reward directly ? why is there need of test . Is it because If we get rewards directly our soul wont be purified , as it will get purified with test , ?
Thank you Nuseri - Just want to confirm that Soul will be punished through the Human body, i mean i will be punished because i have a bad soul. [ i hope you get it
]
Thank you shivaathervedi - Thank you brother , you said as you sow , you shall reap . A person who havent done anything bad in this life , and is completely God devoted , will he be punished/test ? Because i have seen some godly people suffering , and also If i died sinful will i be re-birth so i be less sinful . will a sinful be one with the universal soul? or the divine [different philosophy as you said , but same thing :p]
We dont believe in Reincarnation right [to nuseri and shivaathervedi] as SMS said [may be]
Thank you kaheralii , - That story help me alot . God test us so he can give us rewards .
But God knows if he is going to fail or if he is going to pass , what do God dont give reward directly ? why is there need of test . Is it because If we get rewards directly our soul wont be purified , as it will get purified with test , ?
Thank you Nuseri - Just want to confirm that Soul will be punished through the Human body, i mean i will be punished because i have a bad soul. [ i hope you get it
]Thank you shivaathervedi - Thank you brother , you said as you sow , you shall reap . A person who havent done anything bad in this life , and is completely God devoted , will he be punished/test ? Because i have seen some godly people suffering , and also If i died sinful will i be re-birth so i be less sinful . will a sinful be one with the universal soul? or the divine [different philosophy as you said , but same thing :p]
We dont believe in Reincarnation right [to nuseri and shivaathervedi] as SMS said [may be]
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FayyazValani2017
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:56 am
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shivaathervedi
- Posts: 1107
- Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:39 pm
Quote=kmaherali
The soul is a newly skinned hide, bloody
and gross. Work on it with manual discipline,
and the bitter tanning acid of grief.
You’ll become lovely and very strong.
If you can’t do this work yourself, don’t worry.
You don’t have to make a decision, one way or another.
The Friend, who knows a lot more than you do,
will bring difficulties and grief and sickness,
as medicine, as happiness, as the moment
when you’re beaten, when you hear Checkmate,
and can finally say with Hallaj’s voice,
I trust you to kill me.
- Rumi
From The Book of Love
Translated by Coleman Barks
http://rumi-poem.blogspot.ca/2013/02/i-trust-you.html[/quote]
Reply:
DARD KA HUDD SE GUZARNA DAWA HO JANA
YA PHIR JAAN SE JAANA.
The soul is a newly skinned hide, bloody
and gross. Work on it with manual discipline,
and the bitter tanning acid of grief.
You’ll become lovely and very strong.
If you can’t do this work yourself, don’t worry.
You don’t have to make a decision, one way or another.
The Friend, who knows a lot more than you do,
will bring difficulties and grief and sickness,
as medicine, as happiness, as the moment
when you’re beaten, when you hear Checkmate,
and can finally say with Hallaj’s voice,
I trust you to kill me.
- Rumi
From The Book of Love
Translated by Coleman Barks
http://rumi-poem.blogspot.ca/2013/02/i-trust-you.html[/quote]
Reply:
DARD KA HUDD SE GUZARNA DAWA HO JANA
YA PHIR JAAN SE JAANA.
The concept of test is a relative one. It is only a test as it appears to the world but in reality it is not a test but a means to enlightenment to the one experiencing the test and in fact becomes Khushyally for him.FayyazValani2017 wrote:Ya Ali Madad
Thank you kaheralii , - That story help me alot . God test us so he can give us rewards .
But God knows if he is going to fail or if he is going to pass , what do God dont give reward directly ? why is there need of test . Is it because If we get rewards directly our soul wont be purified , as it will get purified with test , ?
The above sentiments are expressed in the Ginan verses:
saamee maaraajee hareeyaa so hareeyaa ne sukaabee hareeyaa
jo hove najar tamaareeyaa(n) jee.................4
Oh my Lord, the fresh and green ones will remain fresh and green
and the dry and withered ones will also become fresh if they are
encompassed by Your merciful sight.
saamee maaraajee meetthaa so meetthaa ane kaddavaa bhee meetthaa
to aa gur ke vachane fal meetthaddaa jee.........5
Oh my Lord, the sweet ones will remain sweet and the sour ones will become sweet.
Through the (obedience to the) commands of this Guide all the fruits
(of our actions) will become sweet.
The above ideas are echoed by Mowlana Rumi;
"With will fire turns to water, without will even water turns to fire."
Another way of looking at it is by considering the hadith of the Prophet:
"Paradise is encompassed with things disliked, and hell with things desired".
There cannot be a simple answer. Go to the thread:FayyazValani2017 wrote:Ya Ali Madad ,
yes i am sorry , but i just want yes or no , i dont want any explaination , so i think it would change the topic of thread , but yes i will makesure i wont do that again, Last time you gave me a khatnirinjan link , that help me alot also forget to thank you :p
Reincarnation in Islam
at:
www.ismaili.net Forum Index -> Doctrines
-
FayyazValani2017
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:56 am
-
FayyazValani2017
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:56 am
Ya Ali Maadad
The gem cutter, the person who prepares the jewel, cuts it and cuts it and polishes it and cuts it and polishes it until he has fashioned the gem stone in to a stone of absolute purity with no clouding, absolute purity - Aga khan IV - 2008, November 3
http://www.ismaili.net/heritage/node/18892
Mawla explained this beautifully . To pure the soul , We face hardships . So we
can be pure . we have to be polished , So we be in purity
<3 Mawla is so great
The gem cutter, the person who prepares the jewel, cuts it and cuts it and polishes it and cuts it and polishes it until he has fashioned the gem stone in to a stone of absolute purity with no clouding, absolute purity - Aga khan IV - 2008, November 3
http://www.ismaili.net/heritage/node/18892
Mawla explained this beautifully . To pure the soul , We face hardships . So we
can be pure . we have to be polished , So we be in purity
<3 Mawla is so great
This was posted this Farman in the inspiration thread but you may find your answer to this thread here:
kmaherali
Post Posted: 02 Nov 2017 11:50 pm
"The Imams never try to prevent the destined and natural calamities that befall upon an individual. If the Imam removed these calamities then there would be no distinction between this world and the Hereafter and this world would be Paradise. You should not be saddened by worldly suffering, in fact, you should be happy about it.
You should be happy with worldly suffering because such suffering is washing away your sins and the soul gains freedom and receives salvation."
(Dar es Salaam, July 13, 1945)
kmaherali
Post Posted: 02 Nov 2017 11:50 pm
"The Imams never try to prevent the destined and natural calamities that befall upon an individual. If the Imam removed these calamities then there would be no distinction between this world and the Hereafter and this world would be Paradise. You should not be saddened by worldly suffering, in fact, you should be happy about it.
You should be happy with worldly suffering because such suffering is washing away your sins and the soul gains freedom and receives salvation."
(Dar es Salaam, July 13, 1945)