I have just deleted the accounts of Mazarshah and his aliases. You are next in line unless you start using polite language. There is no place here for disrespectful people. I think you are a grater disaster then Mazhar though you may have more love for the Imam but I have never seen in your post any respect for anyone nor humility. If you are not comfortable just leave the Forum it will not be a great loss. You wil see that the world does not stop.nuseri wrote:ya ALI madad.
I feel a member are trying to reply is TOTALLY fxxxxd n screwed up non Ismaili imam hater.
A line of of that of cursed person is real punishement to admin after life.
ADMIN THIS WARNING To YOU as you are the chief disaster in this website.
To hell with with your khojamism n respect for ALI.
YOU ARE ON a cursed path yourself.
Fasting
Well the paragraph on Shariat in Bhuj Nirinjan may have been a later addition.kmaherali wrote: To my knowledge there is only one Ginan - Buj Nirinjan which mentions Ramadhan fasting.
This could have happened. Let me give you an example based on manuscripts: In Kalame Mowla, the beginning verses "Awal Zikr Allaah Ka" are not found in the oldest manuscripts of Kalame Mowla. they are found only in later manuscript from the time someone divided the prose text into chapters by subject. At least 3 old manuscripts confirm that finding. So if additions have happened in that Granth, it is iportant frist to verify what has hapenned in Bhuj Nirinjan.
Manuscripts scans will be made available in the future, it is just a tedious process which is in the pipeline.
Admin
To Admin:Ya ALI madad.
Hassan bin Sabbath never waited for a second for his son who was presumed to hate n act against Imam.
He is well known entity.What is your status n concern for ALI ????????
ALL posting should appear ONLY AFTER moderation n Never EVER on real time basis.
BlackBerry fought they were the pioneers with own factories.
Samsung n apple with no own factory but out sourcing it,I hear Canadian blackberry was on verge of bankruptcy last year.
A management mantra from Sufi baba.
All qwerty key board and unwarranted ginan MUST MUST goes to junkyard.
Do not under estimate ALI n his marfati momins .
Hassan bin Sabbath never waited for a second for his son who was presumed to hate n act against Imam.
He is well known entity.What is your status n concern for ALI ????????
ALL posting should appear ONLY AFTER moderation n Never EVER on real time basis.
BlackBerry fought they were the pioneers with own factories.
Samsung n apple with no own factory but out sourcing it,I hear Canadian blackberry was on verge of bankruptcy last year.
A management mantra from Sufi baba.
All qwerty key board and unwarranted ginan MUST MUST goes to junkyard.
Do not under estimate ALI n his marfati momins .
-
ismaili103
- Posts: 542
- Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:40 am
Nuseri, I was your Fan when I join this website, I thought you are a big lover of Ali, but now I know that you are big hater of Ali and Ismailism, because those who hate the devotional literature of Ismailism are MUNAFIQS who pretend to be Ismailis.All qwerty key board and unwarranted ginan MUST MUST goes to junkyard.
Admin note this.
Noted. I hope Nuseri will stop posting his junk or leave by himself else I will have to delete his account. I was also impressed by his love for Ali and the religion of Ali but now I realize it is all fake.ismaili103 wrote:Nuseri, I was your Fan when I join this website, I thought you are a big lover of Ali, but now I know that you are big hater of Ali and Ismailism, because those who hate the devotional literature of Ismailism are MUNAFIQS who pretend to be Ismailis.All qwerty key board and unwarranted ginan MUST MUST goes to junkyard.
Admin note this.
Ya Ali Madad.
Sharaitis are marooned n even doomed as their pin in stuck on record on 1400 years old.
In same khojas whose pin is stuck on record 700 years old.
Narrow definition of a word as Tax ,liable with punishment and its narration have lost many leaving khojas.
Imam wants to us preach the beauty of our Sufi tariqa and not Khoja pranlika to the world.
In his Farman Imam SMS strictly in a analogy of say 20 fruit trees,He selected for all khojas to enjoy fruits of ONLY ONE TREE. and that farman is not annulled by MHI rather put that is action in a slow process.
ALI know that one fruit from tree is worth 1000 times more in value than fruits of other trees.
Same way Adam n eve were forbidden to eat from from specific tree.
We are a NAFARMAN BARDAR MOMIN if we think other trees are equally important and think ourselves as smart momins.
This act of non compliance is sin n it slow down the progress from speed of 1000x down to 50-100x.
Explaining the truth of a farman is not hating ginan but to use harsh words at 112 year have gone away to follow that Farman.
Rate of obligation is set by prophet n Pir etc which changes n fluid with the time.
Like 1400 years back,1000 years back by qadi noman,700 yrs back by xyz Pirs .
It will never come out out if lips of any IMAM. why becuase he seeks ruhani submission n Pir n persons seek monetary submission.
Status of imam, whether in open or in hiding also can differ rates.
The outlook,dimension ,scope of the word changes with the time the underlying essence of submission does not change.
What is rigidly and absolutist seen as a TAX is seen by tax collectors then,if the same word in is seen in light n beauty of Sufi Tariqa it means offerings n underlying essence.
The word offering covers intent,ability,direct offer in religious place,charity,memani ,all act done for Jk n majalis.not jus offering of monetary currency but physical and intellectual
offering.
In horizontal expansion monetary inputs is most vital but run n grow it vertically human time n intellect contribution is utmost vital.
Ali rehmet air nayamat dene wali Hastily hai.
WO koi aap ne liye mangnewalla Lala ya Pathan nahi hair.
All offering,prayer,act increases credit for next phase of Life.
Read MHI farmans n guidance what he aspires for us.
He never said I want this or that asset for of my family.
He has now desired over n above naarow word(Khoja angle).Healthy contribution of Time n Intellect which is more pricey than currency notes.
DIL DIYA HAI ,JAAN BHI DEENGE.EEH ALI TERE LIYE.
If if say sofly. No one moves,if i say harshly,nastyily it provokes a person to move in what his Imam has guided for him or challenge me on merit of the issue.I am very capable of taking that.it is not my hatred or fatwa but my strategy to oil what I see as rusted from 112 years
SAMAJDARO KO ISHAARA KAFI HAI.
Sharaitis are marooned n even doomed as their pin in stuck on record on 1400 years old.
In same khojas whose pin is stuck on record 700 years old.
Narrow definition of a word as Tax ,liable with punishment and its narration have lost many leaving khojas.
Imam wants to us preach the beauty of our Sufi tariqa and not Khoja pranlika to the world.
In his Farman Imam SMS strictly in a analogy of say 20 fruit trees,He selected for all khojas to enjoy fruits of ONLY ONE TREE. and that farman is not annulled by MHI rather put that is action in a slow process.
ALI know that one fruit from tree is worth 1000 times more in value than fruits of other trees.
Same way Adam n eve were forbidden to eat from from specific tree.
We are a NAFARMAN BARDAR MOMIN if we think other trees are equally important and think ourselves as smart momins.
This act of non compliance is sin n it slow down the progress from speed of 1000x down to 50-100x.
Explaining the truth of a farman is not hating ginan but to use harsh words at 112 year have gone away to follow that Farman.
Rate of obligation is set by prophet n Pir etc which changes n fluid with the time.
Like 1400 years back,1000 years back by qadi noman,700 yrs back by xyz Pirs .
It will never come out out if lips of any IMAM. why becuase he seeks ruhani submission n Pir n persons seek monetary submission.
Status of imam, whether in open or in hiding also can differ rates.
The outlook,dimension ,scope of the word changes with the time the underlying essence of submission does not change.
What is rigidly and absolutist seen as a TAX is seen by tax collectors then,if the same word in is seen in light n beauty of Sufi Tariqa it means offerings n underlying essence.
The word offering covers intent,ability,direct offer in religious place,charity,memani ,all act done for Jk n majalis.not jus offering of monetary currency but physical and intellectual
offering.
In horizontal expansion monetary inputs is most vital but run n grow it vertically human time n intellect contribution is utmost vital.
Ali rehmet air nayamat dene wali Hastily hai.
WO koi aap ne liye mangnewalla Lala ya Pathan nahi hair.
All offering,prayer,act increases credit for next phase of Life.
Read MHI farmans n guidance what he aspires for us.
He never said I want this or that asset for of my family.
He has now desired over n above naarow word(Khoja angle).Healthy contribution of Time n Intellect which is more pricey than currency notes.
DIL DIYA HAI ,JAAN BHI DEENGE.EEH ALI TERE LIYE.
If if say sofly. No one moves,if i say harshly,nastyily it provokes a person to move in what his Imam has guided for him or challenge me on merit of the issue.I am very capable of taking that.it is not my hatred or fatwa but my strategy to oil what I see as rusted from 112 years
SAMAJDARO KO ISHAARA KAFI HAI.
To Ismaili103:Ya ALI Madad.
I observed your posting. A question to you.
If you were to introduce yourself in expressing your spiritual status/identity in relation to an entity or entities.
Would it be a spiritual son of a spiritual father?
OR.
A spiritual son of one dozen spiritual mothers who lived 600-700 years back.
In second case.
And what makes a difference between you n Hindu who also claims to be spiritual child of xxx Devimaa's of the past.
I have few more question of other member of Mawadiya Gang.
I observed your posting. A question to you.
If you were to introduce yourself in expressing your spiritual status/identity in relation to an entity or entities.
Would it be a spiritual son of a spiritual father?
OR.
A spiritual son of one dozen spiritual mothers who lived 600-700 years back.
In second case.
And what makes a difference between you n Hindu who also claims to be spiritual child of xxx Devimaa's of the past.
I have few more question of other member of Mawadiya Gang.
Can you provide reference of this Farman, date and place.nuseri wrote: In his Farman Imam SMS strictly in a analogy of say 20 fruit trees,He selected for all khojas to enjoy fruits of ONLY ONE TREE. and that farman is not annulled by MHI rather put that is action in a slow process.
I.
In his 1885 Farman to the Darkhana of Bombay, MSMS said that Ushr Allah means Dasond. Ushr is 10%. You are incorrect to say that the Imam hasnot specified the rate.
Hence your entire post is based on a lie!
To kmaherali: Ya ALI madad.
What are the exact words used was the word dasond used along with it or gist of things.ushr Allah.
Does it means in physical hands of Allah or in cause of Allah,98% of Ummah assumes Allah as formless Noor n out of imagination. So can Noor need,use and give money.
What is the exact meaning of the word Ushr,a physical tax to be given in hands of Allah.
Or 10% to be spend by one in cause of Allah.
Was the word Dasond used by Imam SMS.did he say it in line before after it that is to be given to him.
What is the farman number,I got a copy from 01-160.
130 year have gone, what it the hint and utmost desire of present imam.the word D is there in farman1 page 3,no percentage is seen by yet on page.
It mention it was collect as tax by the rulers ( present day government).tax is natural for admin,defence,infrastuture,social security etc.
20% of it is absolute privy of Imam.
Zakat is for charity.
Now citizen is legally liable to pay taxes.
See the words teona Hakam leeta hats( their rulers n not Imam).
Imam were also rulers in Fatimid but managed n serviced the whole empire.
The present day rulers is mostly elected government.
There are three facet to it.
That is zahiri.
You mentioned some where that 7 pillar expressed in truth.
What was it for zakat?
At noorani level,the Pir n sheds never paid any dasond but collected and lived out of it.
This order comes from within to all blessed soul.,who is rightly guided where to spend for his cause openly or privately.
As Pir ignored their own dues.it was waived off n blessed to share it as well.they were blessed to take decision of Ushr funds n zakat.
Where is 10% mentioned.????
I see one fifth of Ushr,admin tax of rulers to give to Imam from it.it is not there because they do not believe in Imamat.
At marifat all physical obligation ends,it is his will prevails over the submitter.they are bodies but Ali's Noor taken decision where if needed the wealth to spend.
Even Canadian government almost collect 33% in direct n indirect taxes, they spend fair percentage for less fortunate n third world.
They in eyes is most blessed country. That is COSMOPOLITAN ETHICS.
Mhi may have different angle on it and expanded submission to human n intellectual wealth.word not used in 1985.
We are in 2015.underlying essence of submission does not change,the form n rulers have changed a lot in last 130 years.
We are in Sufi tariqa n not to follow Khoja pranalika in Toto at face n zahiri value.
Anyway well research done,get some sleep also.
What are the exact words used was the word dasond used along with it or gist of things.ushr Allah.
Does it means in physical hands of Allah or in cause of Allah,98% of Ummah assumes Allah as formless Noor n out of imagination. So can Noor need,use and give money.
What is the exact meaning of the word Ushr,a physical tax to be given in hands of Allah.
Or 10% to be spend by one in cause of Allah.
Was the word Dasond used by Imam SMS.did he say it in line before after it that is to be given to him.
What is the farman number,I got a copy from 01-160.
130 year have gone, what it the hint and utmost desire of present imam.the word D is there in farman1 page 3,no percentage is seen by yet on page.
It mention it was collect as tax by the rulers ( present day government).tax is natural for admin,defence,infrastuture,social security etc.
20% of it is absolute privy of Imam.
Zakat is for charity.
Now citizen is legally liable to pay taxes.
See the words teona Hakam leeta hats( their rulers n not Imam).
Imam were also rulers in Fatimid but managed n serviced the whole empire.
The present day rulers is mostly elected government.
There are three facet to it.
That is zahiri.
You mentioned some where that 7 pillar expressed in truth.
What was it for zakat?
At noorani level,the Pir n sheds never paid any dasond but collected and lived out of it.
This order comes from within to all blessed soul.,who is rightly guided where to spend for his cause openly or privately.
As Pir ignored their own dues.it was waived off n blessed to share it as well.they were blessed to take decision of Ushr funds n zakat.
Where is 10% mentioned.????
I see one fifth of Ushr,admin tax of rulers to give to Imam from it.it is not there because they do not believe in Imamat.
At marifat all physical obligation ends,it is his will prevails over the submitter.they are bodies but Ali's Noor taken decision where if needed the wealth to spend.
Even Canadian government almost collect 33% in direct n indirect taxes, they spend fair percentage for less fortunate n third world.
They in eyes is most blessed country. That is COSMOPOLITAN ETHICS.
Mhi may have different angle on it and expanded submission to human n intellectual wealth.word not used in 1985.
We are in 2015.underlying essence of submission does not change,the form n rulers have changed a lot in last 130 years.
We are in Sufi tariqa n not to follow Khoja pranalika in Toto at face n zahiri value.
Anyway well research done,get some sleep also.
Ya ALI madad.
I have used the analogy of mine to explain the farman of Imam SMS farman to know
Ruhani ginan a Pir Sadarddin n his farmans and valued it at 1000:1 over zahiri material.
Every word imam has said of his farman to be understood.
This microly selects S category only of mr S1 and by default undermines all category from A-Z
Category except S of mr S1 and all category from A-Z of all Mr A-Z.
because he knew their content were of very less value.
All this quantum n alwaez speaking less on ruhani as per that farman just talking about dasond n putting fear resulted in loosing weak willed Khojas in last 130 years.
Can you tell me why a zahiri level Alwaez was suspended (kicked out was pardoned).
Let see what truth you write.
That farman give low value to zahiri act(not ruhani)like xyz to be tom tom.
Is British rule many area rulers( princely states as it was called) were allowed to collect the revenue from their subjects and that included the Agakhan.(hakam as ruler)
as ruler had the liability for welfare of its subject.
Welfare of Catholics in USA is the duty of the USA government n not the Pope their spiritual head.
Thing have changed lot since 1985.
Can Pope make a demand in USA for absolute tax as convents of church mentions it?
see an issue in reality of today, laws, education level of ismails in 1985 and now. International status Of MHI .his desires,untold hints from leaders to jamat on submissions.
Pir never foresaw this 700 year back.as they were acting as government unto themselves.
I have used the analogy of mine to explain the farman of Imam SMS farman to know
Ruhani ginan a Pir Sadarddin n his farmans and valued it at 1000:1 over zahiri material.
Every word imam has said of his farman to be understood.
This microly selects S category only of mr S1 and by default undermines all category from A-Z
Category except S of mr S1 and all category from A-Z of all Mr A-Z.
because he knew their content were of very less value.
All this quantum n alwaez speaking less on ruhani as per that farman just talking about dasond n putting fear resulted in loosing weak willed Khojas in last 130 years.
Can you tell me why a zahiri level Alwaez was suspended (kicked out was pardoned).
Let see what truth you write.
That farman give low value to zahiri act(not ruhani)like xyz to be tom tom.
Is British rule many area rulers( princely states as it was called) were allowed to collect the revenue from their subjects and that included the Agakhan.(hakam as ruler)
as ruler had the liability for welfare of its subject.
Welfare of Catholics in USA is the duty of the USA government n not the Pope their spiritual head.
Thing have changed lot since 1985.
Can Pope make a demand in USA for absolute tax as convents of church mentions it?
see an issue in reality of today, laws, education level of ismails in 1985 and now. International status Of MHI .his desires,untold hints from leaders to jamat on submissions.
Pir never foresaw this 700 year back.as they were acting as government unto themselves.
I have provided you with the date and place of the Farman. What else do you need to find it?nuseri wrote:To kmaherali: Ya ALI madad.
What are the exact words used was the word dasond used along with it or gist of things.ushr Allah.
Does it means in physical hands of Allah or in cause of Allah,98% of Ummah assumes Allah as formless Noor n out of imagination. So can Noor need,use and give money.
What is the exact meaning of the word Ushr,a physical tax to be given in hands of Allah.
Or 10% to be spend by one in cause of Allah.
Was the word Dasond used by Imam SMS.did he say it in line before after it that is to be given to him.
What is the farman number,I got a copy from 01-160.
.
Since you have the Farman, don't you think that you should first read the Farman before making your comments?
It seems you are not reading any other posts. I gave reference to this Farman in my reply to tret yesterday. If you read the post you would have known what Farman I am alluding to.
I am also waiting for your reference of the 20 fruit trees. Next time when you mention a Farman, provide reference - date and time.
To Kmaherali:Ya Ali Madad.
I have used the in a anology.that mean I am explaining in my way of explanation to make understanding simpler.
1.the word dasonds is deleted to Ushr,a revenues model for rulers.no percentage is mentioned. SO IT IS FLUID.
2.one fifth word is used,so that implies 20% of what ruler taxes as ABSOLUTE PRIVY of the Imams
3, Zakat of 2.5% of ones income to given in charity.
If one observes the percentage can vary from country to country and set offs.
Also to be seen whether farman akin to it also said when Imam SMS moved to Europe and after India got independence.
Any any word on it from MHI.
pirs coined that word n gave composite figures to listeners then.
Imam SMS as I read over 50 time to read,understand deeply the maina of every word of his farman and ginan n used words for jamat then as Jaanwar and Dhor jeve....
One must not get locked into what Pir said in this regard but follow what MHI has hinted,that is no word to spoken on it,hints to be given jamats,it should manmurad,the wish of the giver and not the demand of the collector.
Pirs also acted as collectors then,time was different even there is a gap of 130 year from today's ground reality.
In farman no 56 page 118,
Imam said.
PIR SADARDEEN PAANCHO SAAL VARSH PEHLAA GINAN FARMAMAVEE GAYA CHEE,TEY GHANA SAARA CHEE.AJEY AMEE FARMAN FARMAVEIY TEY KABOOL NAHI KARO ANEY PIR S JEY FARMAAVYU CHE TE PAKADEE RAAKHO TO SHU FAAIYDO?
he said gain is in today's farman b before that many changes have happened since Arabia time.
This was year 1900, when jamaat may have been dhor.
If many have still hold (pakdi rakhiya) Ginans vis-a-vis Mhi farmans in 2015 period are worse than DHOR,inspire of being educated.
In understanding of mine it other way if one is stuck to pirs word over farman they could be loss (opposite of the word gain).
Indeed it happened many many khojas lost their Imam forever.
If khojas then would got maina if farmans n offered all pure type of submissions, I feel we would have over 1000 courageous Marfati Momins to take on the word with intellect,truth n reasoning.
What I see Few haqiaqti cannot fully take on a baby serpent in few issues.
Ease out of pranalika and get submerged into our pure tariqa.
I have used the in a anology.that mean I am explaining in my way of explanation to make understanding simpler.
1.the word dasonds is deleted to Ushr,a revenues model for rulers.no percentage is mentioned. SO IT IS FLUID.
2.one fifth word is used,so that implies 20% of what ruler taxes as ABSOLUTE PRIVY of the Imams
3, Zakat of 2.5% of ones income to given in charity.
If one observes the percentage can vary from country to country and set offs.
Also to be seen whether farman akin to it also said when Imam SMS moved to Europe and after India got independence.
Any any word on it from MHI.
pirs coined that word n gave composite figures to listeners then.
Imam SMS as I read over 50 time to read,understand deeply the maina of every word of his farman and ginan n used words for jamat then as Jaanwar and Dhor jeve....
One must not get locked into what Pir said in this regard but follow what MHI has hinted,that is no word to spoken on it,hints to be given jamats,it should manmurad,the wish of the giver and not the demand of the collector.
Pirs also acted as collectors then,time was different even there is a gap of 130 year from today's ground reality.
In farman no 56 page 118,
Imam said.
PIR SADARDEEN PAANCHO SAAL VARSH PEHLAA GINAN FARMAMAVEE GAYA CHEE,TEY GHANA SAARA CHEE.AJEY AMEE FARMAN FARMAVEIY TEY KABOOL NAHI KARO ANEY PIR S JEY FARMAAVYU CHE TE PAKADEE RAAKHO TO SHU FAAIYDO?
he said gain is in today's farman b before that many changes have happened since Arabia time.
This was year 1900, when jamaat may have been dhor.
If many have still hold (pakdi rakhiya) Ginans vis-a-vis Mhi farmans in 2015 period are worse than DHOR,inspire of being educated.
In understanding of mine it other way if one is stuck to pirs word over farman they could be loss (opposite of the word gain).
Indeed it happened many many khojas lost their Imam forever.
If khojas then would got maina if farmans n offered all pure type of submissions, I feel we would have over 1000 courageous Marfati Momins to take on the word with intellect,truth n reasoning.
What I see Few haqiaqti cannot fully take on a baby serpent in few issues.
Ease out of pranalika and get submerged into our pure tariqa.
So you are saying that the idea of 20 fruit trees was not a Farman but your own way of explaining which is Ok, but don't say that it is from a Farman when it is not. It can be very misleading.nuseri wrote:To Kmaherali:Ya Ali Madad.
I have used the in a anology.that mean I am explaining in my way of explanation to make understanding simpler.
1.the word dasonds is deleted to Ushr,a revenues model for rulers.no percentage is mentioned. SO IT IS FLUID..
It seems you have not read the Farman. Read it from the link below. It is on page 306 onwards. MSMS has explained it very well.
http://ismaili.net/heritage/files/NoorE ... -320_0.pdf
Dasond is not fluid. Since ages and across all religious traditions it is regarded as the 10th part. Ushr is derived from the root ashara meaning 10. So it is fixed as far as Ismailis are concerned. It may not be fixed for others. The Imam interprets the Qur'an for us and hence Ushr = Dasond which is fixed.
Ushr has nothing to do with worldly taxes. Dasond transcends history and it has nothing to do with historical circumstances such as agriculture tax.
MHI has never indicated any change in this matter.
MHI when he opened the Ismaili Centre in Toronto said:nuseri wrote: Ease out of pranalika and get submerged into our pure tariqa.
"As we inaugurate this building, we also have the opportunity to contemplate what it represents: the inspiring traditions of the past, the stirring challenges of the future, and the continuing search for peace through prayer."
So the pranalika that you are condemning through your ignorance are very important! Get it into your head once and for all.
To kmaherali: Ya Ali madad.
Can me refer to farman after SMS moved to Europe n present MHI.it has to been seen with geopolitical context.
If it was straight forward xx %,Imam would have name n endorsed the Pir for that act.
He explained nicely in two parts first it being same at Ushr and sub part 2O% of it being Khum an absolute privy of Imams.
Also it was collected by hakam(real Persian needed) means the ruler to rule just n fairly in name n fear of God.
The second part is zakat at 2.5% which relate to act of charity,in our case we trust it to Imam or give to designated institutes.
He never said give full xx%.
This word gave way to interpret with times to come.
In year 1885, there were no civilized governments,it was all' Ghar ki Dhoraji'.
This offering if explained as joy of giving n end use is also said for both and our institution
Benefits 92% non Ismailis.
Just ranting of Pir ginans an absolute non ruhani stuff is like holding a 'Bhagte Bhoot ki Langoti'.( shu faydo malsee?)
As for Canada.it was a speech not a farman to elites present there as this complex also has a museum which hold ISLAMIC art,craft,relics, artefacts from its tradition.
It refers to museum on ginans of the khojas.
You are falling short of study.
Traditions were suppose to be bridge,guide,catalyst to know n be entrusted to Imams not a material of destiny itself.
Imam has shown his word as expressed by me blessing of 1000x and Khoja feel corpus of ginan has same or more blessings.
They are moving slow toward Mari fat
All your extract of non ruhani ginans is just crap n act of non farmani from your side.
Submission is mandatory but the rate is flexible.
Leader can get answer from MHI if asked.
Alwaez put so much fear that we lost many khojas who stuck into word of pirs.
Narrow words of pirs were used by enemy of Imam to show that Imam was anti Holy book
And misled uneducated khojas then.
I stand by my interpretation.
Can me refer to farman after SMS moved to Europe n present MHI.it has to been seen with geopolitical context.
If it was straight forward xx %,Imam would have name n endorsed the Pir for that act.
He explained nicely in two parts first it being same at Ushr and sub part 2O% of it being Khum an absolute privy of Imams.
Also it was collected by hakam(real Persian needed) means the ruler to rule just n fairly in name n fear of God.
The second part is zakat at 2.5% which relate to act of charity,in our case we trust it to Imam or give to designated institutes.
He never said give full xx%.
This word gave way to interpret with times to come.
In year 1885, there were no civilized governments,it was all' Ghar ki Dhoraji'.
This offering if explained as joy of giving n end use is also said for both and our institution
Benefits 92% non Ismailis.
Just ranting of Pir ginans an absolute non ruhani stuff is like holding a 'Bhagte Bhoot ki Langoti'.( shu faydo malsee?)
As for Canada.it was a speech not a farman to elites present there as this complex also has a museum which hold ISLAMIC art,craft,relics, artefacts from its tradition.
It refers to museum on ginans of the khojas.
You are falling short of study.
Traditions were suppose to be bridge,guide,catalyst to know n be entrusted to Imams not a material of destiny itself.
Imam has shown his word as expressed by me blessing of 1000x and Khoja feel corpus of ginan has same or more blessings.
They are moving slow toward Mari fat
All your extract of non ruhani ginans is just crap n act of non farmani from your side.
Submission is mandatory but the rate is flexible.
Leader can get answer from MHI if asked.
Alwaez put so much fear that we lost many khojas who stuck into word of pirs.
Narrow words of pirs were used by enemy of Imam to show that Imam was anti Holy book
And misled uneducated khojas then.
I stand by my interpretation.
Umm al-kitab is a treatise of mystical teachings containing questions asked to Imam al-Baqir and his responses. At that time the Imam was only 4 years old!
In question No. 30, he was asked by Jabir: 'O my Lord, what is the meaning of fasting?'
Baqir replied, "The Spirit must fast for thirty days which are like thirty letters [of the alphabet]. [In those thirty days ] one should not speak to anyone, nor associate with those who are unworthy of this Knowledge of Light which is communicated through the thirty letters [ of the alphabet ]; nor should he segregate from the Brothers of Religion to whom the truth must be revealed; nor should he commit any act of betrayal or dishonesty against them; otherwise its consequences will be grave. After every thirty years, one should fast for twelve months. These thirty letters are constituted of light by which twelve organs [ or limbs of the body] are recognized. [ After fasting for twelve months] one should fast for thirty days; detach from everything that is unworthy , and should not associate with infidels, unjust and bigoted people. One should not talk to anyone so that the fasting is proper, [as He the Exalted said,] " That ye fast is better for you" (Qur'an, 2:184).
Moreover, participating in the battle is incumbent upon the Spirit of the heart. It should prepare itself with the shield, spear and arrow; wear the iron coat; make its bow ready and put the arrow of thirty wooden freckles in its holder and wear it on the waist. Then he should march toward the infidels for waging the holy war [jihad] against them, and then annihilate them. The spear [symbolizes] the speech and knowledge of Light; the shield [symbolizes] humility; the iron coat the fear of God; the armour the gentleness, the bow (symbolizes) the lips; the arrow-holder the mouth mouth; the arrow of thirty wooden freckles [ symbolizes] the thirty letters [ of the alphabet] through which [God] is glorified and [ His invocation], "There is no god but God", is recited day and night so that the infidels who have taken hold of the heart are annihilated (373) together with their soldiers and army such as jealousy, envy, hate, rancour, anger, enmity and greed. This battle [is fought] with humility, as He the Exalted said, " And you should fight for the cause of God with your wealth and your lives" [Qur'an 61:11].
The information about the source of the above is given in the discussion at:
UMMUL KITAB - How can I find it?
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... pic&t=2123
******
Ramadan
Ramadan is the holy month in which Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family) received the first revelation of the Holy Qur'an. It is a time of heightened commitment to piety and purification through special observances such as fasting, the performance of good deeds, and through personal sacrifices of material comforts, leading to spiritual fulfilment and renewal.
Ramadan - TheIsmaili.org
In question No. 30, he was asked by Jabir: 'O my Lord, what is the meaning of fasting?'
Baqir replied, "The Spirit must fast for thirty days which are like thirty letters [of the alphabet]. [In those thirty days ] one should not speak to anyone, nor associate with those who are unworthy of this Knowledge of Light which is communicated through the thirty letters [ of the alphabet ]; nor should he segregate from the Brothers of Religion to whom the truth must be revealed; nor should he commit any act of betrayal or dishonesty against them; otherwise its consequences will be grave. After every thirty years, one should fast for twelve months. These thirty letters are constituted of light by which twelve organs [ or limbs of the body] are recognized. [ After fasting for twelve months] one should fast for thirty days; detach from everything that is unworthy , and should not associate with infidels, unjust and bigoted people. One should not talk to anyone so that the fasting is proper, [as He the Exalted said,] " That ye fast is better for you" (Qur'an, 2:184).
Moreover, participating in the battle is incumbent upon the Spirit of the heart. It should prepare itself with the shield, spear and arrow; wear the iron coat; make its bow ready and put the arrow of thirty wooden freckles in its holder and wear it on the waist. Then he should march toward the infidels for waging the holy war [jihad] against them, and then annihilate them. The spear [symbolizes] the speech and knowledge of Light; the shield [symbolizes] humility; the iron coat the fear of God; the armour the gentleness, the bow (symbolizes) the lips; the arrow-holder the mouth mouth; the arrow of thirty wooden freckles [ symbolizes] the thirty letters [ of the alphabet] through which [God] is glorified and [ His invocation], "There is no god but God", is recited day and night so that the infidels who have taken hold of the heart are annihilated (373) together with their soldiers and army such as jealousy, envy, hate, rancour, anger, enmity and greed. This battle [is fought] with humility, as He the Exalted said, " And you should fight for the cause of God with your wealth and your lives" [Qur'an 61:11].
The information about the source of the above is given in the discussion at:
UMMUL KITAB - How can I find it?
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... pic&t=2123
******
Ramadan
Ramadan is the holy month in which Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family) received the first revelation of the Holy Qur'an. It is a time of heightened commitment to piety and purification through special observances such as fasting, the performance of good deeds, and through personal sacrifices of material comforts, leading to spiritual fulfilment and renewal.
Ramadan - TheIsmaili.org
Ramadan Fasting in Shia Ismaili Islam: A Historical Overview
https://ismailignosis.com/2016/06/03/ra ... -overview/
https://ismailignosis.com/2016/06/03/ra ... -overview/
Ramadan
THEISMAILI.ORG
13 August 2009
Ramadan is the holy month in which Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family) received the first revelation of the Holy Qur'an. Together with other Muslims, the Ismailis celebrate Ramadan as a month of special felicity “in which the Holy Qur'an was sent down as a guide to humankind…” (Qur'an 2:185).
In Muslim tradition, Ramadan is a time of heightened commitment to piety and purification through special observances such as fasting, the performance of good deeds – including charitable giving and voluntary service – and through personal sacrifices of material comforts. These observances lead to spiritual fulfilment and a sense of renewal.
The fast of Ramadan is among the pillars of the faith: “O believers, fasting has been prescribed for you as it was for those who preceded you that you may be God-fearing” (Qur'an 2:183). Thus, the fast continues a practice which pre-dates Islam, and has been rendered more humane since religion is not intended to be a cause of hardship. Muslims are urged to fast during Ramadan unless one is suffering from any physical ailment or is on a journey, in which case the prescribed period should be made up later in the year (Qur'an 2:184 – 185).
According to general Muslim belief shared by Shia and Sunni alike, the deeper purpose of fasting is understood as that of cultivating and reinforcing the spiritual and moral character of the faithful, who thus live a life of piety and balance, without forsaking the good things of this world bestowed by Allah's grace (Qur'an 7:31-32). Muslims are expected to practice self-restraint for the sake of Allah's pleasure, remaining ever conscious of His presence. Such are the truly God-fearing.
The emphasis on human character is especially underlined. A tradition of the Prophet's beloved daughter, Hazrat Bibi Fatima Zahra asks what benefit accrues to one who fasts if one does not safeguard one's tongue, ears and limbs. This ethic of self-restraint echoes strictures of the Qur'an: “the hearing, the sight, the heart – all of those shall be questioned.” (Qur'an 17:36). Only when the senses are reined in, does conscience make itself heard, and the soul experience tranquillity, well pleased with itself and well pleasing to its Lord (Qur'an 89:28).
http://theismaili.org/ramadan
THEISMAILI.ORG
13 August 2009
Ramadan is the holy month in which Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family) received the first revelation of the Holy Qur'an. Together with other Muslims, the Ismailis celebrate Ramadan as a month of special felicity “in which the Holy Qur'an was sent down as a guide to humankind…” (Qur'an 2:185).
In Muslim tradition, Ramadan is a time of heightened commitment to piety and purification through special observances such as fasting, the performance of good deeds – including charitable giving and voluntary service – and through personal sacrifices of material comforts. These observances lead to spiritual fulfilment and a sense of renewal.
The fast of Ramadan is among the pillars of the faith: “O believers, fasting has been prescribed for you as it was for those who preceded you that you may be God-fearing” (Qur'an 2:183). Thus, the fast continues a practice which pre-dates Islam, and has been rendered more humane since religion is not intended to be a cause of hardship. Muslims are urged to fast during Ramadan unless one is suffering from any physical ailment or is on a journey, in which case the prescribed period should be made up later in the year (Qur'an 2:184 – 185).
According to general Muslim belief shared by Shia and Sunni alike, the deeper purpose of fasting is understood as that of cultivating and reinforcing the spiritual and moral character of the faithful, who thus live a life of piety and balance, without forsaking the good things of this world bestowed by Allah's grace (Qur'an 7:31-32). Muslims are expected to practice self-restraint for the sake of Allah's pleasure, remaining ever conscious of His presence. Such are the truly God-fearing.
The emphasis on human character is especially underlined. A tradition of the Prophet's beloved daughter, Hazrat Bibi Fatima Zahra asks what benefit accrues to one who fasts if one does not safeguard one's tongue, ears and limbs. This ethic of self-restraint echoes strictures of the Qur'an: “the hearing, the sight, the heart – all of those shall be questioned.” (Qur'an 17:36). Only when the senses are reined in, does conscience make itself heard, and the soul experience tranquillity, well pleased with itself and well pleasing to its Lord (Qur'an 89:28).
http://theismaili.org/ramadan
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shivaathervedi
- Posts: 1107
- Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:39 pm
"theismaili.org" is an official site for followers of Hazar Imam. The above message confirms that physical FASTING is compulsory for Ismails. Fallow the command of Quran and message of Bibi Fatima who herself and her children observed Fasting of Ramadan.kmaherali wrote:Ramadan
THEISMAILI.ORG
13 August 2009
Ramadan is the holy month in which Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family) received the first revelation of the Holy Qur'an. Together with other Muslims, the Ismailis celebrate Ramadan as a month of special felicity “in which the Holy Qur'an was sent down as a guide to humankind…” (Qur'an 2:185).
In Muslim tradition, Ramadan is a time of heightened commitment to piety and purification through special observances such as fasting, the performance of good deeds – including charitable giving and voluntary service – and through personal sacrifices of material comforts. These observances lead to spiritual fulfilment and a sense of renewal.
The fast of Ramadan is among the pillars of the faith: “O believers, fasting has been prescribed for you as it was for those who preceded you that you may be God-fearing” (Qur'an 2:183). Thus, the fast continues a practice which pre-dates Islam, and has been rendered more humane since religion is not intended to be a cause of hardship. Muslims are urged to fast during Ramadan unless one is suffering from any physical ailment or is on a journey, in which case the prescribed period should be made up later in the year (Qur'an 2:184 – 185).
According to general Muslim belief shared by Shia and Sunni alike, the deeper purpose of fasting is understood as that of cultivating and reinforcing the spiritual and moral character of the faithful, who thus live a life of piety and balance, without forsaking the good things of this world bestowed by Allah's grace (Qur'an 7:31-32). Muslims are expected to practice self-restraint for the sake of Allah's pleasure, remaining ever conscious of His presence. Such are the truly God-fearing.
The emphasis on human character is especially underlined. A tradition of the Prophet's beloved daughter, Hazrat Bibi Fatima Zahra asks what benefit accrues to one who fasts if one does not safeguard one's tongue, ears and limbs. This ethic of self-restraint echoes strictures of the Qur'an: “the hearing, the sight, the heart – all of those shall be questioned.” (Qur'an 17:36). Only when the senses are reined in, does conscience make itself heard, and the soul experience tranquillity, well pleased with itself and well pleasing to its Lord (Qur'an 89:28).
http://theismaili.org/ramadan
Ya Ali Madad:
It is an article by website quoting the past practice complied by some scholar.
Fasting has baatin meaning for people following SUFI TARIQA,which MHI has said in Farman ,no farman on 30 days fasting is there,we follow the living Imam and not copy paste of articles on any xyz topics.
Nevertheless is can be a good practice medically as it detoxifies body ,remind them for charitiy ( we have genrousity concept n act 365 days and not 30 day).
I assume the amount of food eaten before and after the fast ,those persons could be gaining alteast 1 pound in their body weight.
There is no punishment for those not fasting ,but waivers and options are there in the holy book.
Any article reseachrd by scholar from IIS as a historian is NOT NOT AT ALL BINDING for Ismailis ,only MHI farman and supplementty message of baatin intrepation of ayats by recognised Pirs and Dais.
This article can taken as TIMES PASS as data of medieval era,in which are definitely not living.
This article has acceptance as reading material and NOT AN ORDER OF ANY SORT.
What we do is dictated by MHI words and not a book interpreted by QUACKS ,who cannot understand the first word of shahada or 3 alphabets of holy book of Alif laam meem.
It is an article by website quoting the past practice complied by some scholar.
Fasting has baatin meaning for people following SUFI TARIQA,which MHI has said in Farman ,no farman on 30 days fasting is there,we follow the living Imam and not copy paste of articles on any xyz topics.
Nevertheless is can be a good practice medically as it detoxifies body ,remind them for charitiy ( we have genrousity concept n act 365 days and not 30 day).
I assume the amount of food eaten before and after the fast ,those persons could be gaining alteast 1 pound in their body weight.
There is no punishment for those not fasting ,but waivers and options are there in the holy book.
Any article reseachrd by scholar from IIS as a historian is NOT NOT AT ALL BINDING for Ismailis ,only MHI farman and supplementty message of baatin intrepation of ayats by recognised Pirs and Dais.
This article can taken as TIMES PASS as data of medieval era,in which are definitely not living.
This article has acceptance as reading material and NOT AN ORDER OF ANY SORT.
What we do is dictated by MHI words and not a book interpreted by QUACKS ,who cannot understand the first word of shahada or 3 alphabets of holy book of Alif laam meem.
Ismailis know about the Usul e Din Farman which is clear on the distinction between Shariat and Haqiqat. On the day of judgement, you will not be asked how many Roja and how many Namaz you did. You will be asked what did you do to help others.
No need to restart the century old debate, it's not going to be resolved today in this Kaljug where more and more people are getting away from Siratul Mustaqueem everyday. Already 22 pages of discussion. Read them before posting anything. Any post which repeat previous posts of the previous 22 pages will be deleted.
No need to restart the century old debate, it's not going to be resolved today in this Kaljug where more and more people are getting away from Siratul Mustaqueem everyday. Already 22 pages of discussion. Read them before posting anything. Any post which repeat previous posts of the previous 22 pages will be deleted.
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shivaathervedi
- Posts: 1107
- Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:39 pm
An honorable member posted a quotation from "theismaili.org" an official site of Ismailis, I just made an appropriate comment on the subject of fasting. Please note I did not reignite the subject my self. By the way reciting Du'a is an act of Shariah you like it or not, doesn't matter.Admin wrote:Ismailis know about the Usul e Din Farman which is clear on the distinction between Shariat and Haqiqat. On the day of judgement, you will not be asked how many Roja and how many Namaz you did. You will be asked what did you do to help others.
No need to restart the century old debate, it's not going to be resolved today in this Kaljug where more and more people are getting away from Siratul Mustaqueem everyday. Already 22 pages of discussion. Read them before posting anything. Any post which repeat previous posts of the previous 22 pages will be deleted.
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shivaathervedi
- Posts: 1107
- Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:39 pm
nuseri wrote:Ya Ali Madad:
It is an article by website quoting the past practice complied by some scholar.
Fasting has baatin meaning for people following SUFI TARIQA,which MHI has said in Farman ,no farman on 30 days fasting is there,we follow the living Imam and not copy paste of articles on any xyz topics.
Nevertheless is can be a good practice medically as it detoxifies body ,remind them for charitiy ( we have genrousity concept n act 365 days and not 30 day).
I assume the amount of food eaten before and after the fast ,those persons could be gaining alteast 1 pound in their body weight.
There is no punishment for those not fasting ,but waivers and options are there in the holy book.
Any article reseachrd by scholar from IIS as a historian is NOT NOT AT ALL BINDING for Ismailis ,only MHI farman and supplementty message of baatin intrepation of ayats by recognised Pirs and Dais.
This article can taken as TIMES PASS as data of medieval era,in which are definitely not living.
This article has acceptance as reading material and NOT AN ORDER OF ANY SORT.
What we do is dictated by MHI words and not a book interpreted by QUACKS ,who cannot understand the first word of shahada or 3 alphabets of holy book of Alif laam meem.
In your above post, you wrote," No Farman on 30 days fasting is there by Imam". Let me quote one;
MSMS said; Haqiqati Momin NOT ONLY fast in the month of Ramadhan for him 360 days are always like fasting... ( KIM Oct 21, 1903, Rajkot).
Please pay attention to words 'NOT ONLY'.
The first word of Kalima e Shahadah is 'ASHHADU' which you recite in Du'a Guzari after reciting Du'a. Alif Laam Meem are coded wordings, only Imam can give real interpretation of these alphabets and not Tom, Dick, and Harry.
Mr Shiva Your translation is completely botched.
Ismaili fast 360 days. SMS said that if you tie a rope on a donkey's mouth he would also be said to be fasting?
What you posted has already been posted and discussed at length.
I said I will delete all double posts. Read all the posts from the beginning and stop questioning why your posts are been deleted. Either they are repetition or they are offensive.
I don't usually agree with Nuseiri but this time, he is right. Beside your convoluted translation, you are not going to restart the debate with your usual false information.
Ismaili fast 360 days. SMS said that if you tie a rope on a donkey's mouth he would also be said to be fasting?
What you posted has already been posted and discussed at length.
I said I will delete all double posts. Read all the posts from the beginning and stop questioning why your posts are been deleted. Either they are repetition or they are offensive.
I don't usually agree with Nuseiri but this time, he is right. Beside your convoluted translation, you are not going to restart the debate with your usual false information.
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shivaathervedi
- Posts: 1107
- Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:39 pm
May be I don't know English, will you please explain readers what is meaning of " NOT ONLY"?Admin wrote:Mr Shiva Your translation is completely botched.
Ismaili fast 360 days. SMS said that if you tie a rope on a donkey's mouth he would also be said to be fasting?
What you posted has already been posted and discussed at length.
I said I will delete all double posts. Read all the posts from the beginning and stop questioning why your posts are been deleted. Either they are repetition or they are offensive.
I don't usually agree with Nuseiri but this time, he is right. Beside your convoluted translation, you are not going to restart the debate with your usual false information.
You did not deleted the post of the person who hurled question in first place, nor deleted post of Kmaherali on this subject, but is coming after me.
I am not reigniting the debate again because the subject is already been discussed, I know.
Of course a person with fast doing bad deeds is like donkey with mouth tied with cloth, but a person with fast also doing charity work having good deeds is acceptable to Allah.
Ya Ali Madad.
Taking it that farman as true and correctly translated.the levels of persons faith status interpret the component deemed fit to him/her.
First words which need probing are Haqiqat ,Not only and like.
1.the words not only gives immediate option of other acts the word Not nullifies the next word of only.this implies only fasting is not salvation.
It also validates the 30 days of fasting ,who think it compulsory
with NO OPTIONS or supplement.
Imam has Ismaili have fasting benefit of 365 days over and above 30 days if they wish for that
He did not say 365-30 =335 days.That shows the superiority of acts of Ismailis withouts physical fasting at all.
The word haqiqati is used ,so person at level of tariqat will not grasp it fast ( we start at tariqat level).
A tariqat person with holistic and rational mind should ask question What is a haqiqati momin? What belief and acts this momin do or practice so that it value is LIKE is fasting physically as sharaitis do?
I explained on of the facets earlier.
A person may be non Ismaili feels that all words like haqiqati,NOT before only ,360 days and prejudge that 30 days of physical acts is must and unavoidable and live like in medevial era.
Forget fasting haqiqati momin advancing to marifat has 365 days of eids ( not even saying important prayers words required on those days).
Such is power & beauty of our faithh
( Sufi TARIQA).
What level a person wishes to be is own fate ,effort and beliefs
Taking it that farman as true and correctly translated.the levels of persons faith status interpret the component deemed fit to him/her.
First words which need probing are Haqiqat ,Not only and like.
1.the words not only gives immediate option of other acts the word Not nullifies the next word of only.this implies only fasting is not salvation.
It also validates the 30 days of fasting ,who think it compulsory
with NO OPTIONS or supplement.
Imam has Ismaili have fasting benefit of 365 days over and above 30 days if they wish for that
He did not say 365-30 =335 days.That shows the superiority of acts of Ismailis withouts physical fasting at all.
The word haqiqati is used ,so person at level of tariqat will not grasp it fast ( we start at tariqat level).
A tariqat person with holistic and rational mind should ask question What is a haqiqati momin? What belief and acts this momin do or practice so that it value is LIKE is fasting physically as sharaitis do?
I explained on of the facets earlier.
A person may be non Ismaili feels that all words like haqiqati,NOT before only ,360 days and prejudge that 30 days of physical acts is must and unavoidable and live like in medevial era.
Forget fasting haqiqati momin advancing to marifat has 365 days of eids ( not even saying important prayers words required on those days).
Such is power & beauty of our faithh
( Sufi TARIQA).
What level a person wishes to be is own fate ,effort and beliefs
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shivaathervedi
- Posts: 1107
- Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:39 pm
Worldz222 wrote:Well please, can somebody tell me if physical fasting in ramadan is compulsory in ismailism or no?
"Ramadan is the (month) in which the Quran was sent down, as a guide to mankind and a clear guidance and judgment (so that mankind will distinguish from right and wrong).." (Q 2:183)
Oh you who believe! Fasting is prescribed to you as it was prescribed to those before you, that you many learn piety and righteousness" (Q 2:183)
Fasting is prescribed for you as it was prescribed for those before you, that you may attain taqwaa." (Q2:183)
JO NAFSANIYAAT KU NAKHEY
SO SUB ROZEY RAMZAN KE RAKHEY
Pir Sadardin