Fasting

[mazharshah]

If your assertion is that paying dasond is a path to salvation then why we built JK's spending crores of rupees/ millions of dollars and paying huge utility bills. Just pay dasond and you are a free soul. No need of rights and rituals, religious practices, Dua bandagi, BK and majlis system, why to waste time, isn't it? If I think of Imam ,he is with me.

It is not my assertion but the assertion of the Pir as indicated in the verses of the Anant Akhado.

Dasond and rituals are related as per verses below.

Aashaajee Keereeyaa keedhee ne dharame chaalya
sati huwo apaar jee
saat sarag-maa te jeev pohotaa
pann uncho te nahee jaay................Haree anant..359

Oh Lord A person who performs the prescribed rituals and
observes outward religious law
such a person is regarded as a great saint
He has reached the seventh heaven
but will not go higher than that(without the tithe)
Haree You are eternal...


Aashaajee Dasond na deedhee ne keereeyaa keedhee
te sati huwo apaar ji
dasond kaarann uncho nahee chaddeeyo
tene aavee deedar ni khott..............Haree anant..360

Oh Lord A person who does not submit the tithe but performs all
the prescribed rituals
such a person is regarded as a great saint(outwardly)
Without the submission of the tithe this person will not
rise higher
and will indeed incur the loss of the Vision
Haree You are eternal...

Hence without Dasond all other rituals and practices are meaningless.

After submitting Dasond all other rites and ceremonies provide protection from materialism as per Farman below:

"It is in this light that, in Shia Ismaili Islam, the Imam-of-the-Time recognises a variety of prayers, tasbihs, Bait-ul-Khayal, Qaseedas, Ginans, by which an individual can submit to the Divine and protect himself or herself against the materialism of secular life, and the many other challenges of daily life." "

There is a verse from Ashaji which states:

Aashaajee Nameeyaa khameeyaa Gur-jee ne bhaave
ane dasond Nar jeeno aahaar jee
dharam niyam tenee vaadd-j kaheeyen
Gur kahe so aapo hee aap................Haree anant..302

Oh Lord The Guide likes humility and patience
and the tithe is the food of the Lord
Remain within the boundary of religious discipline by
being regular for religious duties
and the Guide speaks spontaneously
Haree You are eternal...

JamatKhanas are absolutely necessary for the Jamat. Dasond has its method. You cannot expect to put your money on the table and expect it to reach the Imam. You have got to submit it to Mukhi Kamadias in Jamatkhana. Charities given to other institutions are not considered as Dasond.

MSMS made the Farman:

""IMAM Khudavind chhe tey BATUNI madad apey chhe ane jaheri madad apvi tey Jamat nu kaam chhe.""


.....MSMS Khangi(Private) Farman(Motaa kaam mehmani)
.....Mumbai
.....September 26, 1903

Meaning:

Imam is God and he gives batuni (hidden./spiritual) help, and to give zaheri (apparent/material) help is the work/duty of the Jamaat.

Therefore JamatKhanas and other Jamati institutions such as schools and hospitals are necessary to provide zaheri assistance to the murids.

Your interpretation created confusion, you wrote," If through Dasond one attains constant presence of the Gur Nar, does it really matter whether you are fasting in the month of Ramadhan or not". I know Zakat/Dasond is one of the seven pillars of Ismailism and we have to follow all 7 and fasting is one of them. How can you explain if a poor person has 7 kids to support and he hardly makes his both ends meet, can't spare money for Dasond is not eligible for constant presence of Imam though he is regular in his Dua/Bandagi.

[mazharshah]

Yes I have that Farman, its written in gujarati book of Farman of Imam Sultan Mohammad Shah, I cant read and right gujarati so right now I cant give you the reference but I will give you by translating it from my uncle.

BTW Farman was like. " KHALIFA USMAN K ZAMANEY MA QURAN MA KAI PHER BADAL HOWE HAI"

And about the Hadees, its a Shia hadees and many times quoted in this forum, and not only on this forum every Rec going kid in Pakistan know this hadees.

[/quote]


This person in one of his post to TRET claimed he knows Gujrati well. Now he is accepting that he can not read and write Gujrati. He has ruined his credibility.
What about the credibility of previous quotations of Farmans and Ginans which he translated from Gujrati into English on this forum.

[Admin]

Can we first define the word "To abstain" which is wrongly translated by "fast.| Jesus also "Abstain" (from talking, he was also fasting (same word) so was he also abstaining for food? Of course not. He only abstain from not talking.

[nuseri]

Ya ALI madad:
You are a baby serpent tolerated here by rehmet of Admin,Nothing more.
That message was for haqiqatis only. Each line n statement has different meaning n context as they have haqiati samaj and are human.to oblige or not is an indivual choice n desire ,so need to tom tom over a medieval word.

Evil or iblees is combination of state of mind & status of the soul of a person.
There is no single entity who is ruling or hiding at x place with its own books n law and followers
A child knows that Satan is mentioned as a third person in all stories,.
There is no first person statement from somebody claiming as Satan on earth.
Hitler was considered one as his act resulted in 6 million Jews getting killed.
Same way bunch of ISIL in Arabia are seen as iblees.
Highest the soul can be angel near to God/Ali ,the lowest it can fall to that of a grounded reptile,by then it has no grace of Noor but posion in mind.
Blogger kanada greeted to all as an Ismaili.
You are problem to Admin.he has ease the curse that has inflicted in this website.

[kanada]

How can you explain if a poor person has 7 kids to support and he hardly makes his both ends meet, can't spare money for Dasond is not eligible for constant presence of Imam though he is regular in his Dua/Bandagi.

Great question mazharshah and it requires deeper conversation as there are doubts (please read below my comments as I am adding points to your conversation).

According to the Dasond article (http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/10275) it is mentioned that Dasond consists of Zakat + Khums.

The article further explains...As for the khums, the Koran says: “And know that whatever thing you acquire in war, a fifth (khums) of it is for God and for the Prophet and for the near of kin (ahl al-bayt); and the orphans and needy and travellers” (8: 41)

Khums is what was paid to the Prophet and Ahl Al-Bayt, therefore it is Khums that is part of the Dasond that goes to the Imam.

But the Khums is only 5% according to the Qur'an

“And know that whatever thing you acquire in war, a fifth (khums) of it is for God and for the Prophet and for the near of kin (ahl al-bayt); and the orphans and needy and travellers” (8: 41)

Therefore Zakat + Khums doesn't equate to 12.5%. It comes to 7.5%. So why are we paying 12.5%. Well, that is because it is Zakat + Ushr according to the same article (http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/10275), which further defines Ushr means tenth part, a tax levied only on the Muslims as a land revenue chiefly on agriculture.

Now the calculation for Dasond 12.5% makes sense as Zakat is 2.5% and Ushr is 10% which equates to 12.5%.

But wait a minute. Ushr is a tax levied only on the Muslims as a land revenue chiefly on agriculture. So why are we paying Ushr to the Imam on land revenue for agriculture.

OK, for a moment, let's assume we are not paying Ushr but instead we are paying Khums, which used to go to the Prophet and Ahl Al-Bayt but Khums was paid after a war during the period of the Prophet, when the ghanima (booty) was distributed, each soldier was to pay Khum. We are not in any kind of war so why then are we even paying Khums.

If both Ushr and Khums is not what we are paying, then what constitutes 12.5% of Dasond. I know that 2.5% is Zakat, so what is the rest 10%?

I also understand that in Islam, we have a bracket where one must posses a certain minimum amount of extra wealth (called nisab), fully owned by them in excess of personal use. If a person is earning less or hardly making his both ends meet, he is exempted from zakat meeting certain exemptional conditions.

However, in our Tariqah, where a person is able to barely makes his end meets, he is obligated to pay Dasond.

Our younger generation Ismailis are questioning the calculations of Dasond and the how it interrelates to the historical traditions going back to Imam Aly and Prophet Muhammad.

[kanada]

Blogger kanada greeted to all as an Ismaili.

Thank you for your kind words. I appreciate it. I hope your Khusyali went well today.

[kanada]

Dasond and rituals are related as per verses of the Anant Akhado.

Brother kmaherali, it is difficult for me to say this but Ginan has been a vehicle to convert the people of Gujarat from their native Hindu religion into Islam through their cultural medium. Therefore, there are several terms, ideology, concepts used in the Ginan that are from Hindu theology.

One example is the cycle of rebirth or reincarnation, Islam doesn't believe in it. In fact, even Judaism and Christianity, which is also one of the Semitic religion doesn't believe in it either. There are concepts of Vishnu and Avtaars in the Ginan that is no longer used today (I believe some terminologies are being altered by Tariqah Board). Certain Ginans are not allowed to be recited in JK anymore.

Also, Ginan was not used for the followers of Pir Nasir Khusraw. They used Qasida. Therefore, there are several of other Ismailis that would like to also understand contributions made to this forum from a cultural background that may not be familiar with Khoja Ismailis.

Therefore, I would appreciate if you can make references that can be made with the Farmans of our Living Imam or Qur'an. I would appreciate if you can do so.

Thank you.

[Admin]

This section is on FASTING

Any other discussion should be held on the appropriate thread. Enough repeated. Your discussion on dassond and ginans etc... has already been replied umpteen times so please read the appropriate thread before asking questions that have been asked already. this is plain logic and if you want to continue posting here please read first the rules of postings. meanwhile do not be surprised if your postings unreleted to Fasting are deleted.

[kanada]

My humble question; After hazrat Usman Mowla Ali was caliph for almost 5 years, why not he corrected the alterations made in Quran, still 70% suhaba were alive to verify with them and rewrite the Quran in original form. Why not succeeding Imams corrected the Quran if there were discrepancies.

Great question mazharshah. There is an answer but Ismailis have to look outside of the lenses of Ismailis but instead look through the lenses of Islam as a whole.

We are all aware that scriptures were sent through several prophets as follows:

1. Palms by Prophet David or Zaboor by Prophet Dawood (as)
2. Torah by Prophet Moses or Taurat by Prophet Musa (as)
3. Gospel by Prophet Jesus or Injil by Prophet Isa (as)
4. Qur'an by Prophet Muhammad (saw)

We all know that the past scriptures have been tempered and contains erroneous verses. There are several dedicated websites that will demonstrate errors in the older scriptures and I don't need to explain that over here.

The Qur'an was sent as the only preserved book to mankind and through a Final Prophet, which means that there shall be no further prophets to receive further scriptures. Allah will preserve and has preserve the Qur'an (that is my firm belief). I am not enforcing my belief on anyone but there rest of the Ummah has strong belief in this irrespective if they are Shia, Sunni or Sufi.

[kanada]

This section is on FASTING

Any other discussion should be held on the appropriate thread. Enough repeated. Your discussion on dassond and ginans etc... has already been replied umpteen times so please read the appropriate thread before asking questions that have been asked already. this is plain logic and if you want to continue posting here please read first the rules of postings. meanwhile do not be surprised if your postings unreleted to Fasting are deleted.

Understood and I have re-posted to the appropriate thread (Link is below).

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... c&start=30

[kmaherali]

How can you explain if a poor person has 7 kids to support and he hardly makes his both ends meet, can't spare money for Dasond is not eligible for constant presence of Imam though he is regular in his Dua/Bandagi.

MSMS made the statement below in his Memoirs:

"Our religion is our religion, you either believe in it or you do not. You can leave a faith but you cannot, if you do not accept its tenets, remain within it and claim to "reform" it. You can abandon those tenets, but you cannot try to change them and still protest that you belong to the particular sect that holds them. Many people have left the Ismaili faith, just as other have joined it throughout the ages."

A have heard an anecdote where a poor couple with 7 children approached MSMS in private Mehmani and requested to be excused of Dasond. The Imam replied that they should consider Dasond as the 8th child but not compromise.

[kmaherali]

Farmans from MSMS mentioned in same book Kalam e Imam e Mubin (one about Quran and other about fasting) but a deaf and dumb is accepting one and rejecting other because that other Farman is not serving his purpose.

Please can you quote the Farman on fasting? thanks

[kmaherali]

[Brother kmaherali, it is difficult for me to say this but Ginan has been a vehicle to convert the people of Gujarat from their native Hindu religion into Islam through their cultural medium. Therefore, there are several terms, ideology, concepts used in the Ginan that are from Hindu theology.

One example is the cycle of rebirth or reincarnation, Islam doesn't believe in it. In fact, even Judaism and Christianity, which is also one of the Semitic religion doesn't believe in it either. There are concepts of Vishnu and Avtaars in the Ginan that is no longer used today (I believe some terminologies are being altered by Tariqah Board). Certain Ginans are not allowed to be recited in JK anymore..

There is a very important Farman made by the present Living Imam about Ginans:

"Many times I have recommended to my spiritual children that they should remember the Ginans, that they should understand the meaning of these Ginans and that they should carry these meanings in their hearts. It is most important that my spiritual children from wherever they may come should, through the ages and from generation to generation, hold to this tradition which is so special, so unique and so important to my jamat." Karachi, 16.12.1964

From the above Farman it is quite clear that the message of the Ginans is valid for ever. They are not a conversion tool only. They are applicable for all Jamats from wherever, so if there are Jamats that have not had this tradition, they should learn them just as the khojas learn about the Qasidas.

For more on this subject you may go to the thread:

Ginan a conversion tool only or more?
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... pic&t=1479

There is discussion of reincarnation at:
Reincarnation in Islam
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... pic&t=2548

Please go through the thread and then make your comments.

On Avtaars you will find the appropriate Farman and discussion at:

The DARSHAN OF DAS AVTAAR
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... opic&t=344

Bottom line: All Ginanic concepts are valid forever!

[kmaherali]

My humble question; After hazrat Usman Mowla Ali was caliph for almost 5 years, why not he corrected the alterations made in Quran, still 70% suhaba were alive to verify with them and rewrite the Quran in original form.
Why not succeeding Imams corrected the Quran if there were discrepancies.

Hazarat Ali did not command spiritual authority for the majority of the Muslims, hence why would they accept his version of the Qur'an as opposed to Uthman's? It would have created a major fissure and disunity in the Umma to reverse the process that took years.

Besides all the earlier versions were all destroyed by Uthman, so difficult to reconstruct the whole process again.

[ismaili103]

This person in one of his post to TRET claimed he knows Gujrati well. Now he is accepting that he can not read and write Gujrati. He has ruined his credibility.
What about the credibility of previous quotations of Farmans and Ginans which he translated from Gujrati into English on this forum.

Well mr kanada ...oh sorry mazhar oh I mean junglinasal oh sorry junglikhan

I had never claimed that I can read and write Gujrati, I can understand Gujrati because its my mother tongue, but I can't read and write it because I born in Pakistan.

I had never translated any Ginan, all Ginan I posted are taken from ismaili.net Ginan Library, and every Farman I had posted are in english and Urdu, and Urdu Farmans are taken from karimabad tariqah board printed book.

I can understand your frustration...

And BTW Pir had said ARSATH TIRATH which literally means 68 Pilgrimages, Pir didn't mention Kaaba or Kashi, if you want to perform haj go, I would prefer tour of Thailand over it. Atleast it would be entertaining.

[mazharshah]

This person in one of his post to TRET claimed he knows Gujrati well. Now he is accepting that he can not read and write Gujrati. He has ruined his credibility.
What about the credibility of previous quotations of Farmans and Ginans which he translated from Gujrati into English on this forum.

Well mr kanada ...oh sorry mazhar oh I mean junglinasal oh sorry junglikhan

I had never claimed that I can read and write Gujrati, I can understand Gujrati because its my mother tongue, but I can't read and write it because I born in Pakistan.

I had never translated any Ginan, all Ginan I posted are taken from ismaili.net Ginan Library, and every Farman I had posted are in english and Urdu, and Urdu Farmans are taken from karimabad tariqah board printed book.

I can understand your frustration...

And BTW Pir had said ARSATH TIRATH which literally means 68 Pilgrimages, Pir didn't mention Kaaba or Kashi, if you want to perform haj go, I would prefer tour of Thailand over it. Atleast it would be entertaining.

You are getting personal again, which I warned you before.
In reply to your quote," well mr Kanada.....oh sorry Mazhar..", here is some entertainment for you, BARA MAHINEY MEY BARA TARIQEY SE TUJ KO ULUU BANAU(N) GA RE.
For 'tirath' one has to go to some sacred religious place, ask some alwaiz, Pir did not meant 'in and out' 68 times out of Jk main door is considered 68 pilgrimages, he meant Kashi as Hindu's sacred pilgrimage place for new convert khojas at that time.
Is Tariqa Board Karimabad permitted to print Ginan and farman books on its own, strange!! For your Gujrati connection go through your old posts if not deleted by Admin.

[kanada]

...oh I mean junglinasal oh sorry junglikhan

Admin, as I have said to you earlier that you need to maintain integrity to this forum. There is no need to get personal with remarks to low as the ones posted by"ismaili103".

Brother "ismaili103", do you really call your fellow brothers and sisters in Pakistan as junglinasal or junglikhan. Interesting as I know several Pakistani Ismaili brothers and sisters who have very great Tehzib.

There was a Farman read recently where our Imam guides us to be humble and careful with our tones as we have an obligation to set examples to the world. I am sure you are a fine Ismaili brother and you can set a better example here.

I am here to learn so let's learn in good spirit.

[mazharshah]

My humble question; After hazrat Usman Mowla Ali was caliph for almost 5 years, why not he corrected the alterations made in Quran, still 70% suhaba were alive to verify with them and rewrite the Quran in original form.
Why not succeeding Imams corrected the Quran if there were discrepancies.

Hazarat Ali did not command spiritual authority for the majority of the Muslims, hence why would they accept his version of the Qur'an as opposed to Uthman's? It would have created a major fissure and disunity in the Umma to reverse the process that took years.

Besides all the earlier versions were all destroyed by Uthman, so difficult to reconstruct the whole process again.

Mowla Ali was Khalifatul Muslimeen, all power full. He was not a king of small territory or a governor of some province. Mowla Ali had his own hand written Quran with him and he should had verified with famous and respected COMPANIONS OF PROPHET alive at that time. Also there were thousands of Hafiz e Quran to make his point in case there would have been any opposition. Let me ask you, in Preamble of constitution Imam has mentioned Quran, is this Quran which Imam mentioned Ismailis to follow is different from Hazrat Usman's time Quran?

[mazharshah]

How can you explain if a poor person has 7 kids to support and he hardly makes his both ends meet, can't spare money for Dasond is not eligible for constant presence of Imam though he is regular in his Dua/Bandagi.

MSMS made the statement below in his Memoirs:

"Our religion is our religion, you either believe in it or you do not. You can leave a faith but you cannot, if you do not accept its tenets, remain within it and claim to "reform" it. You can abandon those tenets, but you cannot try to change them and still protest that you belong to the particular sect that holds them. Many people have left the Ismaili faith, just as other have joined it throughout the ages."

A have heard an anecdote where a poor couple with 7 children approached MSMS in private Mehmani and requested to be excused of Dasond. The Imam replied that they should consider Dasond as the 8th child but not compromise.

I am not a reformer, the quote from Memoirs is not a Farman but it is addressed to non Ismaili, non Muslim audience of western countries. ( as you have mentioned before in couple of your previous posts).
From which book you grabbed that anecdote. I have heard that anecdote from a missionary, when he was asked ABOUT THE VALIDITY OF THAT MEHMANI STORY HE WAS CLUELESS.

[mazharshah]

Farmans from MSMS mentioned in same book Kalam e Imam e Mubin (one about Quran and other about fasting) but a deaf and dumb is accepting one and rejecting other because that other Farman is not serving his purpose.

Please can you quote the Farman on fasting? thanks

You are well aware of that particular farman quoted quite few times in this forum.
MSMS said; Haqiqati Momin NOT ONLY fast in the month of Ramadhan for him 360 days are always like fasting... ( KIM Oct 21, 1903, Rajkot)
I have noted that the missionaries during waiz or lecture disappear the words,
" NOT ONLY".

[nuseri]

Ya Ali Madad.
Read the word n understand it's co relation with adjoining word.
Words Haqiqati (not ordinary momins) is used it implies that they fast (ruhaniyat essence )
for 365 day,it mean they are fasting 30 days within it not necessarily physical act of fasting.
Here Imam has valued to a act of a haqaqiti Momin in daily normal moral life to 12 times more than physical obligation n nautanki.
Ismailia are blessed n graced by Ali for 365 days even if they DO NOT keep or practice of limited time control of hunger.
To understands words of ALI ,as said earlier is not easy even for an Alwaez,leave alone a non Ismaili ignorant.
I feel n gear ALI in my heart.so for me I on hajj (ruhaniyat) 365 days of the year.
To have haqiqati Imaan and lead life as farmans of Ali(1-49 phases) with most value to current n immd previous Imams is hajj,roza till eternity and not just 365 day because the word 'night'was not used,
We are living Faith n not into physical acts of the Deads.
In the farman the 30 days of obligation looks outdated,jaded n in useful or blessed over 365 day of rehmet.
It is NOT 30+365 day but
30 daya within 365 days.the word within as said as Not Only ,if it was extra then correct words would have been ' also with or along with '
I will end with.
AHMED WO JO MARD HAI
JO CHARD KAR MARE MAIDAN REE.
AHMED ALI ALI BOLIYA.
PECHEE HONI HOI SO HOI REE.

[Admin]

Could anyone explain the nature of our ritual fasting?

There are 3 kind of Fasting in the sense abstaining to eat food. The rule is very simple. When Imam says nothing, it means you can fast or not, it is your choice. When he says fast like for the Beej (twice a year, the Friday of the New Moon) you have to fast., And if he has said do not fast, then the fasting becomes haram and you should not fast. So I would suggest that you read a little bit more about this definition of fasting and other definitions of fasting.

[kmaherali]

Mowla Ali was Khalifatul Muslimeen, all power full. He was not a king of small territory or a governor of some province. Mowla Ali had his own hand written Quran with him and he should had verified with famous and respected COMPANIONS OF PROPHET alive at that time. Also there were thousands of Hafiz e Quran to make his point in case there would have been any opposition. Let me ask you, in Preamble of constitution Imam has mentioned Quran, is this Quran which Imam mentioned Ismailis to follow is different from Hazrat Usman's time Quran?

Hazarat Ali was powerful, but he had a lot of opposition, hence we had ongoing battles such as the one with Muawiyya. So making changes to the already accepted version would have been very difficult and would have created further divisions in the Umma.

Yes the Imam has told us to study parts of the Qur'an, not the whole. It is the same one as that of Uthman's time.

[kmaherali]

From which book you grabbed that anecdote. I have heard that anecdote from a missionary, when he was asked ABOUT THE VALIDITY OF THAT MEHMANI STORY HE WAS CLUELESS.

Do you expect this kind of information to be published? Much of our tradition is passed orally. So are you suggesting that this story has been fabricated? When I heard this story, I thought it was reasonable given the importance MSMS placed about Dasond in his Farmans.

I am still figuring out the source of the information and will post accordingly.

[kmaherali]

You are well aware of that particular farman quoted quite few times in this forum.
MSMS said; Haqiqati Momin NOT ONLY fast in the month of Ramadhan for him 360 days are always like fasting... ( KIM Oct 21, 1903, Rajkot)
I have noted that the missionaries during waiz or lecture disappear the words,
" NOT ONLY".

The actual Farman states:
"The world is just for two days, in which, have thoughts on becoming pure by doing ibadat. A Haqiqati momin observes fast (roza) not only during the month of Ramzan but for him all the 360 days throughout are of fasting. Not a single evil deed in all the 360 days signifies fasting. Not to hurt anyone is but fasting. Keeping the mouth shut and not eating anything but doing other sinful evil acts is just not fasting. This fasting is but of the thoughts (khyal). Always think thoughtfully. Have such intention that no evil thought is caused in your heart, and no thought of envying someone comes in your heart."

Form the above Farman the Imam says that Haqiqati momins fast for 360 days, hence his fast in the month of Ramadhan is the same as the fast rest of the year. Physical fasting does not happen for 360 days, hence he is not talking about physical fasting he is talking about batini fasting.

Fasting is about thoughts, it is not about food!

[nuseri]

Ya Ali madad.
When the words Not only is used, it there is something else or option.
One can reread in analogy.
Not only you get free dinner card for going hungry for 30 day ,for haqaqti club member it like 365 days of free dinner cards without going hungry.
Simple option is told to Jamat what they should opt for.
He did not say 365-30 days= 335 day of free card.
Only a ignorant fool does not understand what Ali really means to say.
He is boldly hinting that not just 30 days but better option to be blessed for 360 days(Islamic calender has some fewer days.).

[mazharshah]

Mowla Ali was Khalifatul Muslimeen, all power full. He was not a king of small territory or a governor of some province. Mowla Ali had his own hand written Quran with him and he should had verified with famous and respected COMPANIONS OF PROPHET alive at that time. Also there were thousands of Hafiz e Quran to make his point in case there would have been any opposition. Let me ask you, in Preamble of constitution Imam has mentioned Quran, is this Quran which Imam mentioned Ismailis to follow is different from Hazrat Usman's time Quran?

Hazarat Ali was powerful, but he had a lot of opposition, hence we had ongoing battles such as the one with Muawiyya. So making changes to the already accepted version would have been very difficult and would have created further divisions in the Umma.

Yes the Imam has told us to study parts of the Qur'an, not the whole. It is the same one as that of Uthman's time.

I can not buy your explanation of Muawiyya factor. Was Mowla Ali scared of Muawiyya? Prophet said," Ali is with Quran and Quran with Ali " also he said,
" Ali is with Haqq and Haqq is with Ali". For benefit of Ummah, for benefit of coming generations, to stop future conflicts between shias and sunnis ( and arguments amongst Ismailis ) he should had given Quran as revealed. If he had given real and complete Quran in his time there should not have been bloodshed and divisions in between shias and sunnis.
Did Hazar Imam mentioned " parts of Quran " in preamble.

[mazharshah]

From which book you grabbed that anecdote. I have heard that anecdote from a missionary, when he was asked ABOUT THE VALIDITY OF THAT MEHMANI STORY HE WAS CLUELESS.

Do you expect this kind of information to be published? Much of our tradition is passed orally. So are you suggesting that this story has been fabricated? When I heard this story, I thought it was reasonable given the importance MSMS placed about Dasond in his Farmans.

I am still figuring out the source of the information and will post accordingly.

You are a scholar, you know how to research and quote references. After posting now you are looking for source of information! The oral traditions by senior alwaizeen 50/100 years back and narrations in unauthentic books have complicated doctrines of Ismailism and youths are wandering today for
answers.

[Admin]

For benefit of Ummah, for benefit of coming generations, to stop future conflicts between shias and sunnis ( and arguments amongst Ismailis ) he should had given Quran as revealed.

And would you please mind explaining who you are to say our Imam should have done this or that? Would you have more wisdom than our Imam? If yes we should all change our faith and make you the Imam perhaps?

[mazharshah]

Ya Ali madad.
When the words Not only is used, it there is something else or option.
One can reread in analogy.
Not only you get free dinner card for going hungry for 30 day ,for haqaqti club member it like 365 days of free dinner cards without going hungry.
Simple option is told to Jamat what they should opt for.
He did not say 365-30 days= 335 day of free card.
Only a ignorant fool does not understand what Ali really means to say.
He is boldly hinting that not just 30 days but better option to be blessed for 360 days(Islamic calender has some fewer days.).

Did Mukhi saheb handed you a free dinner card after yesterday's Bheej?
I can't help you if you are ignorant. Mowla Ali himself, bibi Fatima, Imam Hussain, Hazrat Hasan and all other family members fast in the month of Ramadhan. The phrase 'NOT ONLY' insists to fast in the month of Ramadhan.
I have seen and experienced that MOSTLY khojas look for easiness and easy ways to perform religious practices AND FOR THAT KEEP TWISTING FARMANS AND GINANS.