Pir Shah

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Pir and shah were One at the very beginning as mentioned in ginans. pir (bhirma) always requested shah(maula) to merge again. now maula is pir and shah both,does it mean that they both have merged once again..?

[kmaherali]

The Imam is the GurNar or the ShahPir. That means he always is the Gur (Guide) and the Nar (Master). At times he delegates the role of the Pir to another individual from the Ahl al-Bayt and times he keeps the role to himself. At present the Imam has kept the role of the Pir to himself.

The Imam being the Mazhar of the Divine Essence is also the Mazhar of the Noor (Universal Intellect).

[tret]

There has always been two office from the beginning of the spiritual world, and those shall continue. Imamat and Hujjatship.

During the Nabuwah, these offices were occupied by Natiq and Asas, respectively. It's possible that Natiq can occupy both offices, and it's the sole prerogative of the Natiq. Today MHI occupies both offices.

Imamat = Universal Intellect
Hujjat = Universal Soul

Hujjat = Pir

The Imam being the Mazhar of the Divine Essence is also the Mazhar of the Noor (Universal Intellect).

According to classical Ismaili theology, there's a slight distiction between the Divine Essence and the First Intellect [aka Universal Intellect]. As white and whiteness. While whiteness doesn't exist without white; at the same time we can't say white and whiteness are one and the same, but not separable either.

So, according to your assertion the Imam is the Mazhar of both Divine Essence and Universal Intellect?

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Thank you

[ShamsB]

There has always been two office from the beginning of the spiritual world, and those shall continue. Imamat and Hujjatship.

During the Nabuwah, these offices were occupied by Natiq and Asas, respectively. It's possible that Natiq can occupy both offices, and it's the sole prerogative of the Natiq. Today MHI occupies both offices.

Imamat = Universal Intellect
Hujjat = Universal Soul

Hujjat = Pir

The Imam being the Mazhar of the Divine Essence is also the Mazhar of the Noor (Universal Intellect).

According to classical Ismaili theology, there's a slight distiction between the Divine Essence and the First Intellect [aka Universal Intellect]. As white and whiteness. While whiteness doesn't exist without white; at the same time we can't say white and whiteness are one and the same, but not separable either.

So, according to your assertion the Imam is the Mazhar of both Divine Essence and Universal Intellect?

We've been over this

Hujjat doesn't equal Pir.

Imam Mustawda = Pir
Imam Mustaqir = Shah.


and both of these must be people of Ahle Bayt.

Shams.

[kmaherali]

So, according to your assertion the Imam is the Mazhar of both Divine Essence and Universal Intellect?

According to Ginans the Imam is the Mazhar of the Divine Essence. All existence has the origin from and return to the Essence, therefore the Universal intellect is also derived from the Essence. Hence the Imam being the Mazhar of the Essence is also the Mazhar of Universal Intellect.

[sujjawal]

Imamat = Universal Intellect
Hujjat = Universal Soul

tret!
can you please explain what is difference between universal intellect and universal soul

[tret]

We've been over this

Hujjat doesn't equal Pir.

Imam Mustawda = Pir
Imam Mustaqir = Shah.


and both of these must be people of Ahle Bayt.

Shams.

Shams -

The Imamat and Hujjatship are the ranks [hudood], that have existed and will exist during human history, before the Prophet and after the Prophet. Before the Prophet these ranks [offices] were occupied by Natiq and Asas, and after the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) are occupied by the Imam of the Time and His Hujjat [aka Pir according to Ginanic Texts].

According to Pre-Fatimid and Fatimid and Nizari sources i.e. Al-Yaman, Nasir Khusraw, Tusi there can be several individuals at the rank of Hujjat as follows:

A total of 28 Hujjats can be present in a given time.

4 of these Hujjats are called Hujjat of proximity who are symbolized by Nasir Khusraw as 4 gates of Kahba. These 4 Hujjats are alway in the close proximity of the Imam of the Time. Out of these 4 Hujjats of proximity one is Hujjat-e-Azam [aka Pir according to Ginanic Text]. Pir/Hujjat-e-Azam can or can not be from Ahl-e-Bayte.

12 of these Hujjats are called Day Hujjats who are ismaili hujjats

12 of these Hujjats are called Night Hujjats who are not in ismaili tariqa; however, they are performing da'wa toward the haqq.


As we already know that MHI occupies both offices today [Imamat and Hujjatship [Pir] or MHI is Shah and Pir].


Imam Mustawda is actually selected under special circumstances where there's a need for trustee Imam who must be from Ahl-e-Bayt, who functions role of Imam temporarily, i.e. when the Imam of the time is very young. The first mention of Imam Mustawda was from Imam Al-Muizz. It's the sole prerogative of the Imam of the time to appoint a truestee Imam or not;

On the other hand, the office of Hujjatship [Or Pir according to Ginanic texts], has been everpresent through out the history of humankind. That's why Ismaili flag has two colors which signifies these two offices, Imamat and Hujjatship.

I hope this clarifies

[agakhani]

No it is not clarify at all you are just telling about the same old garbage you wrote many times in past
The reality is you are lost, you need to study Ismailism very deeply and I have insisted you many times but unfortunately you never learned a lesson after so many criticism in your posts, in your thoughts and thinking because you never try to learn what is the real meaning of SHAH & PIRS, what is is the real Ismailism is all about?? as long as Pir or Hujjatulwada's concern : whatever you just wrote is totally wrong!
Why, I say it is wrong? I will give you answer in only one sentence and which is as below:
"Pir (Hujjatulwada) must have to have from Imam's family. period".
While others??? as you mention above are ????? let me repeat my old favorite slogan" piro ki jutike bararabar bhi nahi" does it make any since to you?? or should I have to write more?

Afsos, Thokar pe thokar kha raha hai phir bhi yeh ghatiya insan ab tak nahi sudhara!!

[agakhani]

can you please explain what is difference between universal intellect and universal soul

The explanation is very simple and it does not needs any repetition again and again!! but my third eyes says something different about you bro. Tret knows what I am talking about??!!!

[tret]

Pir and shah were One at the very beginning as mentioned in ginans. pir (bhirma) always requested shah(maula) to merge again. now maula is pir and shah both,does it mean that they both have merged once again..?

This is a very powerful and the essence of creation. I will try to explain according to my understanding. By no means I consider myself a scholar or and expert.

As it's mentioned in the Qur'an, Almighty Allah has WILLED and the universe has been created. God's very first creation is the First Intellect, which has been created from Allah's Essence through no mediation. Therefore, IT is perfect in potentiality and actuality. From IT, the Universal Soul has come to existence by Universal Intellect's mediation. Now Universal Soul is perfect in potentiality but not in actuality. To actualize ITself [Universal Soul], it generates movement which creates matter [The universe, Heaven and Earth and individual souls]. Universal Soul always wants to return to ITs source [Universal Intellect]. I guess that's what Ginan indicates.

Today MHI occupies the offices of Imamah and Hujjatship; This doesn't indicate Universal Soul returns[submerge] with the Universal Intellect. This happens during the cycle of Ressurection when Qaimul qiamat comes. The beginning of cycle of Resurrection started with our 49th, current Maulana Hazir Imam.

[sujjawal]

. From IT, the Universal Soul has come to existence by Universal Intellect's mediation. Now Universal Soul is perfect in potentiality but not in actuality. To actualize ITself [Universal Soul], it generates movement which creates matter [The universe, Heaven and Earth and individual souls]. Universal Soul always wants to return to ITs source [Universal Intellect]..

kindly exlpain when you say hujjat=universal soul

[tret]

kindly exlpain when you say hujjat=universal soul

Our material world is a manifestation of the spiritual world. In the spiritual realm, there are ranks, the same as we have in world of faith.

In spiritual realm the ranks [hudood] are

1. Universal Intellect
2. Universal Soul
3. Jadd
4. Fath
5. Khayal

Similarly in the world of faith the ranks [hudood] are

1. Imam
2. Bab [Hujjat-e-Azam | Pir]
3. Hujjat
4. Da'i
5. Mazoon