5 Pillars of Islam

Discussion on doctrinal issues
zznoor
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:38 pm

Post by zznoor »

sujjawal wrote:zznoor wrote:There are many translations so it is nice to give name of translator also.
to zznoor!

thats the thing; you people even dont have same translations of quran;not same tafsirs.each scholar can give his own interpretations of quran and sharyat and preach it to otfers thus giving rise to thier own sect.your so called most reliable hadith sources even dont tell same kind of namaaz.you even dont have same timings of aadan; you fight with each other on whether to do rafa udayn or not.you people fight with each other either to follow shaafi or hanfi.it would be better for you to go and first try to create unity among your own school of thought and then give us your so called tabligh fi sabilallah
You were Sunni before, what kind of Namaaz you performed?
What is rafa udayn ?
Adhan
Learn about it before you shoot your mouth.
For example Asr prayer time start at one Shadow or two shadow. Prophet has done both ways. Group of people can follow either.

Do you agree that Muslim are required to pray Salat? If not why your imam declared that he was going to give you guys uniform Ismaili Namaaz?
It has taken this all Zahir Batin knowledgable person so far more than 5 years and God knows when he will get it done. May be it will be like Imam SMS's 10 additional chapters of Quran.
sujjawal
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:17 am

Post by sujjawal »

zznoor wrote:
sujjawal wrote:zznoor wrote:There are many translations so it is nice to give name of translator also.
to zznoor!

thats the thing; you people even dont have same translations of quran;not same tafsirs.each scholar can give his own interpretations of quran and sharyat and preach it to otfers thus giving rise to thier own sect.your so called most reliable hadith sources even dont tell same kind of namaaz.you even dont have same timings of aadan; you fight with each other on whether to do rafa udayn or not.you people fight with each other either to follow shaafi or hanfi.it would be better for you to go and first try to create unity among your own school of thought and then give us your so called tabligh fi sabilallah
You were Sunni before, what kind of Namaaz you performed?
What is rafa udayn ?
Adhan
Learn about it before you shoot your mouth.
For example Asr prayer time start at one Shadow or two shadow. Prophet has done both ways. Group of people can follow either.

Do you agree that Muslim are required to pray Salat? If not why your imam declared that he was going to give you guys uniform Ismaili Namaaz?
It has taken this all Zahir Batin knowledgable person so far more than 5 years and God knows when he will get it done. May be it will be like Imam SMS's 10 additional chapters of Quran.
oh please dont beat about the bush.
nuseri
Posts: 1373
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:54 am

Post by nuseri »

To zznoor:Ya Ali Madad.
You are now on injecting yourself with 85% fake life saving medicines
to death.
Firstly what is said is Quran is true and what is seen,heard,saw is by fraudsters is 100% false n in valid.
True believer has follow the word of ALI in Quran n observation by tom dick n harry to be faithful to ALI.
the word mentioned is 'prescribed' like a doctor prescribing the medicine.
the word is not an absolute ORDER of ALI but induced suggestion to practice/observe it.
In legal parlance if doctor write the word order he can be hanged if the patient dies after consuming it.the word prescribe is a subtle request to do an act/etc.
many patients do like prescription of a doctor and go for an second opinion
and totally or partially avoid the first prescription.
we Ismailis are blessed with ALI himself the author of Quran as our spiritiual doctor.
What he orders/Farman us is absolute.( we go for new prescription by the same doctor.WE R LUCKY.
We do mimic his act and personal movement out of stupidity n ignorance.
So why the hell should a rational thinking mind person mimic somebodies
act seen,heard etc shit shit shit do the same .1400 year back people had all the time to waste n wander.now one has work with travelling almost 10 hours a day to feed it's family( first prime duty,then prayers).
If Einstein considered as genius had a habit of scratching his head with pen/pencil,does than everYbody mimicking that act of seen by fools n fraudster will them as genius as Einstein was.
one of Quran when exploited t roughly has give broader meaning, measure of fast.
This has small measure of Baatin with word prescribe(not ordered)
n taqwa'
Just copy pasting Ayat ,any school child can do with searching on the word fast/ramdhan to copy paste.
those seven had lot to understand.
I am blessed to understand because of by absolute faith in ALI as face n author of Quran.
you do not have to be a part of cult,but be the part of absolute truth.
the word ALI is baatin in the word Allah.
if one cannot crack the word A then B-Z can take many life cycles.
One question.
can one help other by keeping a fast?
or help other person by offering his/her time,money/intellect
to that person in need of all?
you know the answer but 1400 year old shit will make tell lies
ALI very well know whom to reward from the above two.
wealthy n educated persons do not follow cult/etc.
Find me one Farman,speech.interview of MHI stating incorrect wording
of speaking rubbish.
I challenge you and re explain on what he meant to say.
Quran is true n innocent,but with this discontent,fire splits in Islam
is not by Quran but by 85% of fake hadiths who tried to speak like God.

I see the same fingerprint/vocabulary n forensic style of in words of Quran n presently Farmans said by MHI.
Same ALI then N now n forever.
sujjawal
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:17 am

Post by sujjawal »

They are known as muqatta'at. Nobody has given precise and authentic meaning. If you ask two people who claims to have this knowledge they will give you three answers.
oh no body among you can also never give precise meaning because you dont have any imam.can you tell me that if meanings of these words were not to be revealed to people then then why these words are given in quran.
whatever is zahir is zahir not because people can get it through five senses but for that whether people get it or not it is zahir in itself.in the same way what ever is batin is batin and if man doesnot get through intellect then it it will not come from hideness.
thus for those ibadaat that can be get through senses like namaz,roza ,zakaat ,hajj all people are eqaul to get them.but when we talk about batin we talk about those things which cannot be get through five senses and these are to be revealed to those people who recognise true IMAM.
and if you say there can be no batin of Allah's message then you may look at following
as quran says in chapter 7 verse no 53 that

DO THEY WAIT FOR AUGHT BUT ITS FINAL SEQUEL(TA'AWIL)? ON THE DAY WHEN ITS FINAL SEQUEL COMES,THOSE WHO NEGLECTED IT BEFORE WILL SAY:INDEED THE MESSENGERS OF OUR LORD BROUGHT THE TRUTH''

In chapter 31;verse 20 Allah says,
''AND GRANTED TO YOU HIS FAVOURS COMPLETE INWARDLY AND OUTWARDLY''

AND IN CHAPTER 102;VERSE 8 he says:
THEN ON THAT DAY YOU SHALL CERTAINLY BE QUESTIONED ABOUT FAVORS(BOONS)''
Now if favours of allah has tow sides zahir and batin and man will be asked for these favours then what will he say if he donot get batin of His favours.
And to know about these favours, quran says in chapter 16 verse no 43
''So ask to Ahl-e- zikr(imams) if you know not''
While in chapter 7;verse 181
''And of those whom We have created is a group(imams) who guide with the truth and and therewith do justice''
zznoor
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:38 pm

Post by zznoor »

oh no body among you can also never give precise meaning because you dont have any imam.can you tell me that if meanings of these words were not to be revealed to people then then why these words are given in quran.
So unscrupulous religious leaders can creat Fitna and whit less Murids can keep repeating why, why for centuries.
Your imam does not know anything about it.

Stop beating around bush
Just say what Alif Lam Mim means.
You will keep repeating Batin, Batin till you die. You need to convince other that there is authentic Batin meaning of anything.

I can also post Ayas of Quran which your Imam said was corrupted

Allah says in the Holy Quran Chapter 2 Surah Al-Baqarah verse 174: Indeed those, who conceal the commands that Allah has sent down in His Book and barter them away for paltry worldly gains, fill their bellies with fire. Allah will not speak to them on the Day of Resurrection, nor will He regard them as pure and there is a painful torment for them!

Allah says in the Holy Quran Chapter 2 Surah Baqarah verse 159: Those who conceal the clear (Revelations) and Guidance We have sent down, after We have made it clear for the people in the Book, on them shall be Allah’s ‘laanah’ and the ‘laanah’ of those who are entitled to curse!


Now chew on this.
zznoor
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:38 pm

Post by zznoor »

as quran says in chapter 7 verse no 53 that

DO THEY WAIT FOR AUGHT BUT ITS FINAL SEQUEL(TA'AWIL)? ON THE DAY WHEN ITS FINAL SEQUEL COMES,THOSE WHO NEGLECTED IT BEFORE WILL SAY:INDEED THE MESSENGERS OF OUR LORD BROUGHT THE TRUTH''
Check before you insert words in bracket
Check meaning of sequel in any dictionary

Full Definition of SEQUEL

1: consequence, result
2
a : subsequent development
b : the next installment (as of a speech or story); especially : a literary, cinematic, or televised work continuing the course of a story begun in a preceding one

And I did post atiquet of understanding Quran
Do not post truncated verses and look few verses before or after for meaning.

Here we go
7:51 to 7:53

See if sequel means Tawil

Shakir 7:51] Who take their religion for an idle sport and a play and this life's world deceives them; so today We forsake them, as they neglected the meeting of this day of theirs and as they denied Our communications.

[Pooya/Ali Commentary 7:51]
The disbelievers deliberately turned away and ignored the hereafter in spite of clear warnings given to them through the Quran-a guide and a mercy. Allah shall ignore and neglect them on the day of judgement.

The Quran, a complete book (see commentary of al Baqarah: 2 and "Genuineness of the Holy Quran" on page (i)), was a guide and a mercy to the believers, but the disbelievers who remained unmoved by its teachings will learn the truth too late. As there will be no salvation except on their own record, they will wish that they may have another chance, but their chance will be gone.


[Shakir 7:52] And certainly We have brought them a Book which We have made clear with knowledge, a guidance and a mercy for a people who believe.

[Pooya/Ali Commentary 7:52] (see commentary for verse 51)

[Shakir 7:53] Do they wait for aught but its final sequel? On the day when its final sequel comes about, those who neglected it before will say: Indeed the messengers of our Lord brought the truth; are there for us then any intercessors so that they should intercede on our behalf? Or could we be sent back so that we should do (deeds) other than those which we did? Indeed they have lost their souls and that which they forged has gone away from them.

[Pooya/Ali Commentary 7:53] (see commentary for verse 51)


BTW
Where you get this translations?

All you deviants do is play games with Quran and Sunnah
zznoor
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:38 pm

Post by zznoor »

In chapter 31;verse 20 Allah says,
''AND GRANTED TO YOU HIS FAVOURS COMPLETE INWARDLY AND OUTWARDLY''
I did tell you not to post truncated Ayas. Only deviants do that to twist meaning to their liking.

Here we go again

31:12 to31:22

[Shakir 31:12] And certainly We gave wisdom to Luqman, saying: Be grateful to Allah. And whoever is grateful, he is on!y grateful for his own soul; and whoever is ungrateful, then surely Allah is Self-sufficient, Praised.
[Shakir 31:13] And when Luqman said to his son while he admonished him: O my son! do not associate aught with Allah; most surely polytheism is a grievous iniquity--
[Shakir 31:14] And We have enjoined man in respect of his parents-- his mother bears him with faintings upon faintings and his weaning takes two years-- saying: Be grateful to Me and to both your parents; to Me is the eventual coming.
[Shakir 31:15] And if they contend with you that you should associate with Me what you have no knowledge of, do not obey them, and keep company with them in this world kindly, and follow the way of him who turns to Me, then to Me is your return, then will I inform you of what you did--
[Shakir 31:16] O my son! surely if it is the very weight of the grain of a mustard-seed, even though it is in (the heart of) rock, or (high above) in the heaven or (deep down) in the earth, Allah will bring it (to light); surely Allah is Knower of subtleties, Aware;
[Shakir 31:17] O my son! keep up prayer and enjoin the good and forbid the evil, and bear patiently that which befalls you; surely these acts require courage;
[Shakir 31:18] And do not turn your face away from people in contempt, nor go about in the land exulting overmuch; surely Allah does not love any self-conceited boaster;
[Shakir 31:19] And pursue the right course in your going about and lower your voice; surely the most hateful of voices is braying of the asses.
[Shakir 31:20] Do you not see that Allah has made what is in the heavens and what is in the earth subservient to you, and made complete to you His favors outwardly and inwardly? And among men is he who disputes in respect of Allah though having no knowledge nor guidance, nor a book giving light.
[Shakir 31:21] And when it is said to them: Follow what Allah has revealed, they say: Nay, we follow that on which we found our fathers. What! though the Shaitan calls them to the chastisement of the burning fire!
[Shakir 31:22] And whoever submits himself wholly to Allah and he is the doer of good (to others), he indeed has taken hold of the firmest thing upon which one can lay hold; and Allah's is the end of affairs.

This is whole sequence is about Luqman admonishing his son and nothing to do with Tawil
sujjawal
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:17 am

Post by sujjawal »

Where you get this translations?

All you deviants do is play games with Quran and Sunnah
look at the arabic of this ayat(chapter7 verse 53) the word is TAWILEHI.
The meaning of sequel is continution or somthing that follows.you can find this on following link
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sequel
and taawil is revealed in sequence by Asaas after tanzil revealed to Natik.
sujjawal
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:17 am

Post by sujjawal »

Do you not see that Allah has made what is in the heavens and what is in the earth subservient to you, and made complete to you His favors outwardly and inwardly? And among men is he who disputes in respect of Allah though having no knowledge nor guidance, nor a book giving light.
The whole story that you copy pasted does not disprove that there is no taawil.by favours outwardly and inwardly means outward and inward knowledge and thats why God made what is heavens and what is in earth subservient to luqman.
Admin
Posts: 6829
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 10:37 am
Contact:

Post by Admin »

zznoor wrote:
So unscrupulous religious leaders can creat Fitna and whit less Murids can keep repeating why, why for centuries.
Your imam does not know anything about it.
zznoor, what you wrote is a breach of the rules of posting on this site. You are not allowed to insult our Imam. You did that several times and I have been more than patient. This is the last warning. If I see one more posting saying anything against our Imam, I will delete your account and ban your IP. You are more than welcome to go post your dirt on more welcoming site if you do not agree with the rules of posting of this website.

admin
zznoor
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:38 pm

Post by zznoor »

Admin wrote:
zznoor wrote:
So unscrupulous religious leaders can creat Fitna and whit less Murids can keep repeating why, why for centuries.
Your imam does not know anything about it.
zznoor, what you wrote is a breach of the rules of posting on this site. You are not allowed to insult our Imam. You did that several times and I have been more than patient. This is the last warning. If I see one more posting saying anything against our Imam, I will delete your account and ban your IP. You are more than welcome to go post your dirt on more welcoming site if you do not agree with the rules of posting of this website.

admin
Will do
zznoor
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:38 pm

Post by zznoor »

7:53

Transition

Hal Yanžurūna 'Illā Ta'wīlahu ۚ Yawma Ya'tī Ta'wīluhu Yaqūlu Al-Ladhīna Nasūhu Min Qablu Qad Jā'at Rusulu Rabbinā Bil-Ĥaqqi Fahal Lanā Min Shufa`ā'a Fayashfa`ū Lanā 'Aw Nuraddu Fana`mala Ghayra Al-Ladhī Kunnā Na`malu ۚ Qad Khasirū 'Anfusahum Wa Đalla `Anhum Mā

Word by word

هَلْ
Do
يَنظُرُونَ
they wait
إِلَّا
except
تَأْوِيلَهُۥۚ
(for) its fulfillment
يَوْمَ
(The) Day
يَأْتِى
(will) come
تَأْوِيلُهُۥ
its fulfillment,
يَقُولُ
will say
ٱلَّذِينَ
those who
نَسُوهُ
had forgotten it
مِن قَبْلُ
before,
قَدْ
`Verily
جَآءَتْ
had come
رُسُلُ
(the) Messengers
رَبِّنَا
(of) our Lord
بِٱلْحَقِّ
with the truth,
فَهَل
so are (there)
لَّنَا
for us
مِن
any
شُفَعَآءَ
intercessors
فَيَشْفَعُواْ
so (that) they intercede
لَنَآ
for us
أَوْ
or
نُرَدُّ
we are sent back
فَنَعْمَلَ
so (that) we do (deeds)
غَيْرَ
other than
ٱلَّذِى
that which
كُنَّا
we used to
نَعْمَلُۚ
do.`
قَدْ
Verily,
خَسِرُوٓاْ
they lost
أَنفُسَهُمْ
themselves,
وَضَلَّ
and strayed
عَنْهُم
from them
مَّا
what
كَانُواْ
they used to
يَفْتَرُونَ
invent.
﴿٥٣﴾
nuseri
Posts: 1373
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:54 am

Post by nuseri »

To:zznoor:Ya Ali Madad.
regarding the Ayat 2:183 on fasting.It may have taken you 3 seconds to copy paste.
It has taken me three days to understand maybe 25% of that Ayat of 10 words.
Firstly Quran is baatin that is what is written is there but what is to be understood is also there hidden in the message.
firsly that those fast regulary n understand the importantance of that holy month of charity.compassion and service to needy(not just money also time n intellect) MAY attain 'taqwa'.
the above virtue is embedded in every Ismaili as part n parcel of his/her life
on 12 month basis not just one month in a year.
ALI is perfecly guiding his flock from Quran which HE gave 1400 years back.

Now the word "prescription".to those who came before you.
1. the word 'prescription', which is a strong advice and not an absolute order.
2.prescription is a word in which we take an analogy from medical science
doctor prescribe some medicine to a ill person.after some time the prescription can(it usually does) depending on improvement or worsening of that Illness.
It is clearly said in Quran is was also prescribed those who were on earth
before Quran.
the prescription is known to us how other religion keep n practice fast.
It changed with Quran not permanently as we are now in 2014.
We have come after almost 50 life cycles or more after Quran.
It definitely HINTS to prescription is subject to change.
both Quran n Imam e mubin are mentioned that are left on Earth.
Imagine If GOD/ALI send message in today's time.

It was diifrent to Hindus,christian jew etc of type n period of fasting.
Would not the prescription have changed looking at the physical n spiritual health of the humanity.
Simply if a medicine of stomach
pain has done it job ,then medicine of
good memory n skin glow can also to give BY ALI.
The stomach ache is long gone so new prescription
yb Imam e Mubin/ALI is there.

The word Taqwa has much deeper meaning of baatin n noorani didar which
Ismailes have inbulit n embedded privilege to achieve.

ALI has truth 1400 year back and truly guiding what that ayat meant
and is reflected in Ismailis of Today.
Just imagine how can a family survive from 1400 years wish fullest NOOR
reflected on their faces n do what a fool?disaster like you thinks HE is fooling his cult follower.
who are smart enough to differentiate between right n wrong
What are 10-12 word of one Ayat is truth is understood by reasoning
( if is was different to poeple before 1400 years n differant people at at time by law of nature it could be different 1400 now).
What should be NOW.ALI decides and tell.
Take this Ayat to Aalim or any street side mullah,kazi.
Firstly they will scratch their beard and may tell not understanding broadness n depth of the Ayat in the first place may tell that taqwa may be a new beard style or new burqa design.
go check their quality.
Just farting away Ayats in wholesale
make you look like fool.
ALI chose the word Allah as his signature in Quran.
I will take that challenge.
If he with intelligence can a way out meaning of just few words in every Ayat,then He has chosen his name not to fool the world but to even search the truth in his name in the first place.
the whole of Quran is Baatin even the blessed persons may a small percentage of it.Only ALI know what said then and what HE says now.
Ask the aalim n mullah the glow of light on face Ayat ,see what they tell.
ask them if he unseen n invisible than How will honor those who are best in Taqwa.
For any honor few living people are needed to recognize that honor.

if one see any audio or video of any faithful Sufi singer the sunni one not shia.( sufi singers n not plain vanilla ones)
they compose the poem n song,but as soon as the are in full picth on get into trance the words ALI ALI ALI come out of their heart regarDless of what their mind may have composed.
check them, and also ask how does it happen n challenge that that word ALI ALI should not come out of their throat.
They will that at that stage their voIce was not theirs but THE almighty controlled it.
Ask sunni sufi singers of qawwali or songs etc.

AB TO ALI AUR ALI
SIRF ALI ALI ALI.
tret
Posts: 1195
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:09 pm

Post by tret »

zznoor wrote:Allah says in the Holy Quran Chapter 2 Surah Al-Baqarah verse 174: Indeed those, who conceal the commands that Allah has sent down in His Book and barter them away for paltry worldly gains, fill their bellies with fire. Allah will not speak to them on the Day of Resurrection, nor will He regard them as pure and there is a painful torment for them!
Maula Ali says those who believe in me, shall see me in the day of judgement; those who don't believe in me shall also see me in the day of judgement.

If you believe in Prophet, you have to believe in every word of Him, not pick and choose, such as event of Ghadir-e-khum. That's where haqq and batil deviate.
shiraz.virani
Posts: 1256
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 2:52 pm

Post by shiraz.virani »

zznoor said :
Allah says in the Holy Quran Chapter 2 Surah Al-Baqarah verse 174: Indeed those, who conceal the commands that Allah has sent down in His Book and barter them away for paltry worldly gains, fill their bellies with fire. Allah will not speak to them on the Day of Resurrection, nor will He regard them as pure and there is a painful torment for them!
Which allah[swt] are you talking about ??? The one who is just, swift in taking action or the one who sees the misery of people of Iraq, Syria and Palestine but yet does nothing.

Which allah[swt] are you talking about ???
fayaz006
Posts: 147
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:03 pm

to zznoor

Post by fayaz006 »

Hello zznoor
What is your understanding of the Quran, ie is it a simple book in your opinion, complex book easy to understand or takes a life time to understand?
What is you opinion about the Quran?
zznoor
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:38 pm

Post by zznoor »

Surah 59:22-24


Bismillaah ar-Rahman ar-Raheem
Hu wallahu ladhila illaha illa hu
alim al ghaib wa shahadati
Hu ar rahman ar rahim
Huwallahu ladhila illaha illa hu
al malik ul quddus as salaam
ul mutmin ul muhaiymin al aziz
ul jabbar ut mutakabbir
Subhanallah hi amma yusrikun
Hu wallahu al khaliq ul bari ul mussawir
La hul asma ul husna
yusabuhu lahuma fi semaawaati wal ard
wa huwal aziz al hakim

Saddaqallah hul Azim

In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
Allah is He, other than Whom there is no other god;
Who knows both what is hidden and what can be witnessed;
He is the Most Compassionate and Merciful.
Allah is He, other than Whom there is no other god;
the Sovereign, the One, the Source of Peace,
the Guardian of Faith, the Preserver of Security,
the Exalted, the Compelling, the Supreme.
Glory be to God, beyond any associations.
He is Allah, the Creator, the Evolver, the Bestower of Form.
To Him belong the Most Beautiful Names:
Whatever exists in heaven and earth declares His Praise and Glory.
And He is Exalted in Power, the Wise.

Allah, The Most High, speaks the truth.

If one recites only a portion of a surah, it is necessary to say at the end of the selection:
Saddaqallah hul Azim (Allah, the Most High, Speaks the truth.)

Translated by Kabir Helminski
tret
Posts: 1195
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:09 pm

Post by tret »

zznoor wrote:Surah 59:22-24


Bismillaah ar-Rahman ar-Raheem
Hu wallahu ladhila illaha illa hu
alim al ghaib wa shahadati
Hu ar rahman ar rahim
Huwallahu ladhila illaha illa hu
al malik ul quddus as salaam
ul mutmin ul muhaiymin al aziz
ul jabbar ut mutakabbir
Subhanallah hi amma yusrikun
Hu wallahu al khaliq ul bari ul mussawir
La hul asma ul husna
yusabuhu lahuma fi semaawaati wal ard
wa huwal aziz al hakim

Saddaqallah hul Azim

In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
Allah is He, other than Whom there is no other god;
Who knows both what is hidden and what can be witnessed;
He is the Most Compassionate and Merciful.
Allah is He, other than Whom there is no other god;
the Sovereign, the One, the Source of Peace,
the Guardian of Faith, the Preserver of Security,
the Exalted, the Compelling, the Supreme.
Glory be to God, beyond any associations.
He is Allah, the Creator, the Evolver, the Bestower of Form.
To Him belong the Most Beautiful Names:
Whatever exists in heaven and earth declares His Praise and Glory.
And He is Exalted in Power, the Wise.

Allah, The Most High, speaks the truth.

If one recites only a portion of a surah, it is necessary to say at the end of the selection:
Saddaqallah hul Azim (Allah, the Most High, Speaks the truth.)

Translated by Kabir Helminski
zznoor - I'd like to give you some food for thought:

As you know better, all ayats of the Qur'an were revealed to prophet by Allah, and as all muslims concur, the Ayats are words and speech of God.

Having said that, pay close attention to this Ayat, for example. God refers to Him in third person. Why? i.e.

Allah is He, other than Whom there is no other god;
He is the Most Compassionate and Merciful.
as opposed to I am the most compassionate and merciful...

To Him belong the Most Beautiful Names:
as opposed to ... To Me belong the Most beautiful names...

Take this to your scholars and see what they come up with...
shiraz.virani
Posts: 1256
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 2:52 pm

Post by shiraz.virani »

zznoor said :
@ Shiraz.virani

From Maudidi

(2:174) Indeed those, who conceal the Commands that Allah has sent down in His Book and barter them away for paltry worldly gains, fill their bellies with fire. *173 Allah will not speak to them on the Day of Resurrection, nor will He regard them as pure; *174 "a there is a painful torment for them.
Forget about death, did allah[swt] ever spoke to you in this life [while you are alive] ??

You are soooo pure, always do what allah[swt] mentioned in holy quran, so did you ever got lucky enough to have a personal one on one with allah[swt], chai pe charcha or coffee with allah[swt] ???

Yes/ no???
shiraz.virani
Posts: 1256
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 2:52 pm

Post by shiraz.virani »

agakhani bhai said :
The last time I heard ZZNOOR was tallking with Ib...s from her Boston office .i personally believes that nobody can talk with Allah and as I already wrote that her Allah is totally different then ours! BTW, I forget to MENTION THAT HER ALLAH EAT "PAN" TOO Sorry for my mistake but her Allah eat pan withTAMBAKOO and he has bad habit to split on anybody, any thing and any where even in ZZNoor Boston office and house!
Agakhani bhai, I'am deeply saddened after reading this post. I dunno whats wrong with you...A person who always used to share his immense knowledge about ginans and rich indian culture is talking like this ???

I know sometimes zznoor gets personal but I want you to remember that in any argument or a debate the person gets personal only when he/she feels that he/she is loosing a debate.

You are a very learned person agakhani bhai, I wanna see that old agakhani bhai back [the who always shares the spiritual meaning of our ginans that are rooted deeply in our rich indian culture]

I also want you to pray for the people of Gaza. Not just you I request all the active members and guests to pray for the people of Gaza.....I have lost hope in the divine, may be if at all there is any super natural being out there then may be he'll listen to atleast one of your prayers. :cry:
tret
Posts: 1195
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:09 pm

Post by tret »

shiraz.virani wrote:...I have lost hope in the divine, may be if at all there is any super natural being out there then may be he'll listen to atleast one of your prayers. :cry:
There are things that man don't understand or not capable of understanding it, but only He does. Simply because of that, one must not turn away from the Divine, or lose hope.

For, what we have, is His barakat; what we don't, is His Hikmat and what we lose, is His emtehaan.
kmaherali
Posts: 25706
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2003 3:01 pm

Post by kmaherali »

shiraz.virani wrote: Now we all can run behind esoteric/ exoteric and all other bull crap but the fact is that we all follow the holy quran and our role model = imam e zaman [who himself fasts in ramadan]...I say its about time that we learn from our role model rather than beating bushes with all the esoteric and exoteric bull crap.
Shiraz bhai
The Imam is not our role model. Generally we do not follow what he does but what he tells us. If you try to follow what he does you will never keep up with him. According to our Ginans, the Imam (ShahPir) never sleeps. Can an ordinaryl humanbeing survive without sleep?

utth baetth re keeyaa sutaa, teraa sonaa bhaleraa naa(n)hee;
teraa shaahaa peer kadee naa suve,
tujhe sonaa kee(n)v bhaave.
teraa molaa kadee naa sove, tujhe sonaa kee(n)v bhaave............1

Wake up! Why are you asleep? It is not good for you to sleep. Your Imam (ShahPir) never sleeps, so how can you delight in sleeping?
Your Lord never sleeps, so how can you find pleasure in sleeping?

620) Eji Ali jina chaltra samoon nav joi ae
Sri satguru ne vachane seva kari ae saar
Jem jem kalikar vadhase monivaro
Tem ali rajo chaltra karshe aapar
Cheto.....


620. Do not look at what Ali does, but obey what He says, for as the times
will change, Ali's actions may be beyond your comprehension.
kmaherali
Posts: 25706
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2003 3:01 pm

Post by kmaherali »

Below are references from hadiths indicating that the Prophet cannot be imitated.

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 3.183

Narrated Abdullah Ibn Umar:

Allah’s Apostle forbade al-Wisal. The people said (to him),"but you practice it?”He said, "I am not like you, for I am given food and drink by Allah.” (Qala: Inni lastu mithlikum).


Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 3.184

Narrated Abu Sa’id:

That he had heard the Prophet saying, "Do not fast continuously (practice al-Wisal), and if you intend to lengthen your fast, then carry it on only till the Suhur (before the following dawn).”The people said to him, "But you practice (Al-Wisal), O Allah’s Apostle!”He replied, "I am not similar to you, for during my sleep I have One Who makes me eat and drink.”(Qala: Inni lastu ka Hay’atikum).



Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 3.185

Narrated Aisha:

Allah’s Apostle forbade al-Wisal out of mercy to them. They said to him, "But you practice al-Wisal?”He said, "I am not similar to you, for my Lord gives me food and drink.”(Qala: Inni lastu ka Hay’atikum)

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 3.188

Narrated Abu Said al-Khudri:

Allah’s Apostle said, "Do not fast continuously day and night (practice al-Wisal) and if anyone of you intends to fast continuously day and night, he should continue till the Suhur time.”They said, "But you practice al-Wisal, O Allah’s Apostle!”The Prophet said,

"I am not similar to you; during my sleep I have One Who makes me eat and drink."
Post Reply