After death

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:23 am

Some questions which may sound silly but hope to get answers

* There are examples in history like Jesus giving life after death, Hazrat Ali, Pir Shams and Pir Hassan Kabirdin gave life to some one dead..so any such incidence happened in recent time ? Also in hinduism there is some story that love of life bring back life to the husband who was dead or YamRaj not took the life of her husband..so is that true? Can such incidences occur or happens in recent times and if yes then under which circumstances?

* I think we ismailis do not believe in Azab-e-Qabar..What are your views. Hindus burns the dead bodies unlike muslims as muslims have Graveyard Qabrastan and hindus have Shamshaan ghaat..So if after death, it is not important what happens to body..only soul is important then why it is important to burry in that particular manner not to burn or other things or vice versa?

* Is it true that some times those who are going to die see angels and if some one comes in dream after being dead what does it means? Is it that the soul really came in dream and addressed or just the imagination and nothing to do with reality as it is also often believed that if ruhani gives fruit or some thing in dream it is considered very good thing.

nagib · Post by **nagib** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 10:37 am

I think we have to define death first. A long time ago death was pronounced when the heart stopped. Then they found there is still activity in the brain after the heart stops so they say we have to wait for the brain activity to stop to be sure. But sure enough, even after the brain activities dies down [no pun intended] hairs and nails can continue to grow, so I have heard.

So I guess the only real definition would be to say a person dies when the soul escapes from the body, not when the body dies.

Nagib

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 3:27 pm

MHI on numerous occasions especially during the awards for architecture ceremonies, has told us that Islam does not deal with dichotomies. The promises of the hereafter are to be experienced and grown into in this life. In other words the purpose of this life is to enjoy the Divine invitation to a variety of enlightening experiences. A person who lives an Islamic mode of total submission enjoys paradise here.

Hafiz says it beautifully in the following verse.

You have been invited to meet
The Friend
No one can resist a Divine Invitation.

That narrows down all our choices
To just two:

We can come to God
Dressed for Dancing,

Or

Be carried on a stretcher
To God's Ward.

A person who enjoys paradise here will be prepared when entering the hereafter because he/she will have the necessary 'instruments' to enjoy paradise, whereas a person who has not lived the life of submission will be confused, consumed with regret, unprepared and crippled and will be taken to God's ward (purifying hellfire) for cure and revival to enter paradise. During the 'purification' process he/she will become aware that paradise or a garden was available all along and he chose to live in a toilet.

Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah says in his memoir "After death Divine justice will take into consideration the faith, the prayers and the deeds of man. For the chosen there is eternal life and the spiritual felicity of the Divine vision. For the condemned there is hell, where they will be consumed with regret for not having known how to merit the grace and the blessing of Divine mercy."

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:09 pm

Preparing the Soul for Akhirat (Life Hereafter)

By Ghulam Abbas Hunzai

simerg.com/literary-readings/preparing-the-soul-for-akhirat-life-hereafter/

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:45 pm

After death is ruhani able to see what his/her family members are doing for his/her soul?
Is ruhani able to feel? or have capability of having feelings?
or all the worldly connections get end after death?

If ruhani comes in dream is it real or illusion?

Is agarbatti or incense provides any benefit to the soul or not?

After death, does ruhani get power to know what his/her family members are feeling, doing and thinking....

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:17 pm

“Die Before You Die” – Journey Towards the Nur

simerg.com/literary-readings/die-before-you-die-the-journey-towards-the-nur/

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:54 pm

Recently I just finished to read two books on life after death of well known authors
1, Life after death : Raymond Moody
2, Many lives many masters : Brian L. Weiss

These two books are not only good for those who believes in reincarnation or life after another birth of the souls but they are also very informative for those who doesn't believe in reincarnation.

tret · Post by **tret** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:07 pm

agakhani wrote:Recently I just finished to read two books on life after death of well known authors
1, Life after death : Raymond Moody
2, Many lives many masters : Brian L. Weiss

These two books are not only good for those who believes in reincarnation or life after another birth of the souls but they are also very informative for those who doesn't believe in reincarnation.

So is the Imams are the reincarnation of previous Imam(s)?

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:22 am

Its all depends what you think about reincarnation but sorry brother be honest with you this subjects is not for Middle Asian peoples because they have no or very little knowledge and belives in ginan;
to me and many other Ismaili believers and as per our ginans yes H. Ali (s.a) was 10th reincarnation of Lord, this way current Imam is also 10th incarnation.

SMS once told and confessed that he was Lord Krishna in his previous carnation!!!

Let me give you one example:_
One Hindu ( after seeing this miracle he became Ismailis not only that but became missionary) from Gujarat asked our leaders that he might convert his self in Ismaili if your Imam show himself as lord Krishna!!
The leaders asked SMS and Mowla told them to call him and asked him to look his eyes, he did and he saw SMS as a Krishna! (salwat) after seeing this miracle he became true ismaili.
This is not a false story but I think brother Admin may know more about this event because it is posted some where in this website.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:25 am

All 49 the Imam so far and thoese Imams still have to come will consider all as DASMO NAKLANKI AVTAR" means 10th reincarnation as per ginans.

tret · Post by **tret** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:12 pm

agakhani wrote:Its all depends what you think about reincarnation ...

Can you kindly explain what incarnation is, according to you?

Per which category of Ginans? A? B? or C?

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:09 pm

I am talking about Ten incarnations as per our ginanic literature which are follows:-
1, Matsya ( The fish) Avatar
2, Koorma (the tortoise) Avatar
3, Varaha (the boar) Avatar
4, Narasimha (the man-lion) Avatar
5, Vamana (the dwarf) Avatar
6, The Parasurama Avatar
7, The Rama Avatar
8, The Krishna Avatar
This avatar SMS mentioned that he was Krishna.
9, Budhha Avatar ( Not the Gautam Budhha as many belives)
10, Nakalanki Avatar ( H. Ali)
As per our ginan, first 10th Nakalanki avatar was H. Ali (s.a.) and all the imams who has came so far after him till 49th current imams and also those imams still has to comes after 49th imams , they all will consider 10 the incarnation.
This is not my philosophy but I am just taking about our ginanic philosophy.
Off course this thinking exactly match with Hindu philosophy but when our Imams Hakim, Imam Jaffer Sadiq and Imam Ali shah and Sultan Mohammed Shah accept the 10 reincarnation theory then we should also accept it. Pir can not be wrong.

tret · Post by **tret** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:15 pm

agakhani wrote:I am talking about Ten incarnations as per our ginanic literature which are follows:-
1, Matsya ( The fish) Avatar
2, Koorma (the tortoise) Avatar
3, Varaha (the boar) Avatar
4, Narasimha (the man-lion) Avatar
5, Vamana (the dwarf) Avatar
6, The Parasurama Avatar
7, The Rama Avatar
8, The Krishna Avatar
This avatar SMS mentioned that he was Krishna.
9, Budhha Avatar ( Not the Gautam Budhha as many belives)
10, Nakalanki Avatar ( H. Ali)
As per our ginan, first 10th Nakalanki avatar was H. Ali (s.a.) and all the imams who has came so far after him till 49th current imams and also those imams still has to comes after 49th imams , they all will consider 10 the incarnation.
This is not my philosophy but I am just taking about our ginanic philosophy.
Off course this thinking exactly match with Hindu philosophy but when our Imams Hakim, Imam Jaffer Sadiq and Imam Ali shah and Sultan Mohammed Shah accept the 10 reincarnation theory then we should also accept it. Pir can not be wrong.

You didn't describe reincarnation, brother. Can you explain what's reincarnation according to your understanding?

- is it the same person? (We'r not talking about body)
- is it the same soul?
- is it the same intellect?

I am really curious to know more.

Referencing Ginan-e-Sharifs are good, but I'd really like your understanding if you could put it in your own simple words.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:17 pm

There are many ginans composed by our pirs specially on 'DAS AVATAR'

DAS MEANS 'TEN'

AVATAR MEANS 'REINCARNATION'

In simple explanation "reincarnation" means take a another birth after the death whether it is for human beings, animals or God.

As per our ginans God has taken 10 birth to kill devil forces which I mentioned above.

1, DAS AVATAR MOTO COMPOSED BY PIR SADARDIN
2, DAS AVATAR NANO "
3, DAS AVATAR COMPOSED BY SYED IMAM SHAH.
4, AND ALSO THERE ARE MANY GINANS WHICH ALSO MENTIONING ABOUT 10 INCARNATION OF VISHNU/ALLAH.

One clarification:- I do not have any intention to put you guys down (Middle Asian) you are way ahead in Ruhaniyat and on Iman, in comparison with Indo-Pak Jamats as per SMS.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:24 pm

- is it the same person? (We'r not talking about body)
- is it the same soul?
- is it the same intellect?

Souls are eternal so - yes,

As per my understanding same person can take birth after her/his death with Allah permission and he/she has to take birth again and again till he/she receives salvation for their souls so there is reincarnation for each and every soul unless....

The total births a soul has to take 84,000.00 and then after soul able to take human birth, there for human being is very important for soul salvation.

About intellect I do not thing that intellect will be same.

This is my understanding I may be wrong.

tret · Post by **tret** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:38 pm

agakhani wrote:There are many ginans composed by our pirs specially on 'DAS AVATAR'

DAS MEANS 'TEN'

AVATAR MEANS 'REINCARNATION'

In simple explanation "reincarnation" means take a another birth after the death whether it is for human beings, animals or God.

As per our ginans God has taken 10 birth to kill devil forces which I mentioned above.

1, DAS AVATAR MOTO COMPOSED BY PIR SADARDIN
2, DAS AVATAR NANO "
3, DAS AVATAR COMPOSED BY SYED IMAM SHAH.
4, AND ALSO THERE ARE MANY GINANS WHICH ALSO MENTIONING ABOUT 10 INCARNATION OF VISHNU/ALLAH.

One clarification:- I do not have any intention to put you guys down (Middle Asian) you are way ahead in Ruhaniyat and on Iman, in comparison with Indo-Pak Jamats as per SMS.

Appreciate the info, brother.

Please I never question my brothers motives. I believe in any discussions, if we I learn one word, then I am the slave of that person.

This is just my belief and understanding, and correct me if I am wrong.

While all the Imams are from the same Nur (or barrier of the same Nur of Imamat), They all have Their distinct individual Souls, and that's why we can see every Imam have Their unique personalities and were reflecting the same qualities and attributes of the Divine in various ways. In other words, all Imams have the same mandate, but each one with different individual soul.

While Their souls were different, but they were are barrier of the same Nur of Imamat.

It's like placing 49 mirrors side by side, and when the Sun shines upon these 49 mirrors, then They all reflect the same Nur, while being individual mirrors.

According to my understanding, reincarnation is when a person (or other beings) comes to back to life with the SAME soul [and that's important to notice, SAME SOUL] to fulfill a purpose, which he/she was not able to in his/her privous life.

I believe every Imam fulfills His mandate according to time and space correctly.

tret · Post by **tret** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:45 pm

agakhani wrote:
As per my understanding same person can take birth after her/his death with Allah permission and he/she has to take birth again and again till he/she receives salvation for their souls so there is reincarnation for each and every soul unless....

I think I could agree with your stand on this, about reincarnation, that a person (or being) comes back to life to find salvation.

So, if we agree that the purpose of reincarnation is to find salvation and for the soul to get purified, then the actual question that I posed initially, are the Imams are reincarnation of previous Imams for the same reason? Keeping in mind the fact that when one reincarnates, has the same soul.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:47 pm

are the Imams are reincarnation of previous Imams for the same reason? Keeping in mind the fact that when one reincarnates, has the same soul.

Good question! brother Tret for answer I put farman of SMS from Kalam -E-Mubin - However NOT EXACT TEXTS.

"Amo Hazarat Ali Hazar ane Nazar bedha chhiye, Je Noor H. Ali ma hatu tej Noor amara ma Chhe!!

Amara ma ane amara dada H. Ali me kaij farak nathi!!! amo j H. Ali Chhiye!

I as same like Hazarat Ali here, Whichever Noor H. Ali had in past that Noor now I have! there is no different between me and H. Ali.
Me, and other Ismaili Imams are H. Ali.

Imams are sinless and immortal therefore they do not have to take birth for their soul's salvation, even though they takes birth as human being.

tret · Post by **tret** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:05 pm

agakhani wrote:
are the Imams are reincarnation of previous Imams for the same reason? Keeping in mind the fact that when one reincarnates, has the same soul.
Good question! brother Tret for answer I put farman of SMS from Kalam -E-Mubin - However NOT EXACT TEXTS.

"Amo Hazarat Ali Hazar ane Nazar bedha chhiye, Je Noor H. Ali ma hatu tej Noor amara ma Chhe!!
Amara ma ane amara dada H. Ali me kaij farak nathi!!! amo j H. Ali Chhiye!

I as same like Hazarat Ali here, Whichever Noor H. Ali had in past that Noor now I have! there is no different between me and H. Ali.
Me, and other Ismaili Imams are H. Ali.

Imams are sinless and immortal therefore they do not have to take birth for their soul's salvation, even though they takes birth as human being.

Thank you for posting this. Excellent excerpt.

So, we agree that Imams are Mahsoom and infallible!

I absolutely agree also that Imams are from the Same Nur (Nur of Imamat). See my previous post, please.

So, my question still remains -- and the excerpt that you referenced, doesn't say anything about reincarnation, brother.

I guess what is important to understand is that Imams are living in a material word, in a living body, and They, therefore, have an individual soul, which is already purified (So no need for salvation, or purification [or reincarnation]). However, they are all manifesting the same Nur of Imamat. (Which I believe is not reincarnation).

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:36 pm

Every one have different thanking and opinions so I do not have any objection for your own thinking but when four imams accepts in reincarnation concepts then there is some thing true in it.
Imam Hakim declared him self as 10 incarnation in presence of thousands peoples in his khutba!
Imam Ali shah and SMS also accepted that they are dasmo naklanki avatars I remember that I posted SMS"S one farman on 10 incarnation.
What else proof we need when our imams themselves believe in reincarnation?
Getting off now so may be more tomorrow
Hopping
may be Admin and ShamsB put some more lights in this ignored topics!! and satisfies you in your interesting questions they both have wide knowledge lots more then mine.

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:34 pm

Imams are sinless and immortal therefore they do not have to take birth for their soul's salvation, even though they takes birth as human being.

Wow
Immortal !!!!!

Post by **Admin** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:50 pm

Imamat is Manifestation, not reincarnation. There is a difference. I am sure the subject has been discussed already somewhere in the Forum.

tret · Post by **tret** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:01 pm

Admin wrote:Imamat is Manifestation, not reincarnation. There is a difference. I am sure the subject has been discussed already somewhere in the Forum.

Thanks for confirmation. That is exactly the point I was trying to make.

ismaili103 · Post by **ismaili103** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:35 pm

Yaa Ali Madad

I was listen in one of the waez of abu ali that after death when some souls reach the level more than jibrael but not reach the ASAL ma WASEEL then Mowla give them birth in their own family.....and then whenever NOOR OF IMAMAT( INDEED ALLAH ) trasfer to them their pure souls unite with NOOR then there is no difference b\w NOOR OF IMAMAT and THEIR souls they get ONE...

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:04 pm

Thanks Shinan,
I also heard that waez many times before and I knew exactly what you wrote above!! but I intentionally didn't put it here because there are many non-Ismailis readers who comes and read our posts too and there are many in this forum who doesn't prefer Rai Abu Ali's waez as a reference!!! however Rai saheb has not left any subject untouched in his waezes,in my opinion it is hard to born missionary like him.
Also there are many readers here who do not beleives in reincarnation so, I think it is hard for them to digest this kind information since they are not believing in reincarnation at all!!!
We should not afraid to write truth, ( truth is truth) but many truths are very bitter for many and hard to digest for some scholars so, in future if you keep 'TAQUIA' then it will be great.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:12 pm

Wow
Immortal !!!!!

Not physically Imams are immortal because they have to die too, but as a holder of " Allah's Noor" they are immortal, and we Ismailis has witnessed that after H. Ali (s.a.) 48 Imams has come so far and this tradition will continue till the day of judgement, this is our belief.

Thanks for drawing my attention in this matter.

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:50 pm

From Merriam-Webster dictionary
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary

Reincarnation
rebirth in new bodies or forms of life; especially : a rebirth of a soul in a new human body

The Resurrection
(In Christian belief) the rising of the dead at the Last Judgment.

In Islam also same belief

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:54 pm

From Merriam-Webster dictionary
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary

Reincarnation
rebirth in new bodies or forms of life; especially : a rebirth of a soul in a new human body

The Resurrection
(In Christian belief) the rising of the dead at the Last Judgment.

In Islam also same belief

tret · Post by **tret** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:09 pm

agakhani wrote:Every one have different thanking and opinions so I do not have any objection for your own thinking but when four imams accepts in reincarnation concepts then there is some thing true in it.
Imam Hakim declared him self as 10 incarnation in presence of thousands peoples in his khutba!
Imam Ali shah and SMS also accepted that they are dasmo naklanki avatars I remember that I posted SMS"S one farman on 10 incarnation.
What else proof we need when our imams themselves believe in reincarnation?
Getting off now so may be more tomorrow
Hopping
may be Admin and ShamsB put some more lights in this ignored topics!! and satisfies you in your interesting questions they both have wide knowledge lots more then mine.

Brother agakhani - I would humbly request that you drop the attitude of who likes who or who likes what. We'r all one united Jama'at, and that's our MHI's wish. Let's make our Maula happy, by being united and not divide by who like who, or who's better than who. You know what I mean?

Actually, it's not about believing in it or not. It's more like interpretation of reincarnation. Some people take the literal translation of reincarnation, as to be born in another life, physically (zahiri). Where as it could also be interpreted esoterically, where you elevate your soul in higher sphere and finding and getting closer to the reality. In each stage, we could say, you reincarnate in higher sphere. But, that was not my objection at all. My question was that Imams are not incarnation of previous Imams. There's a difference between believing in reincarnation and believing in Imams to be reincarnation of previous Imam.

Truth remains always truth, whether it's bitter or sweet. It's ours to seek IT. If the bitter truth is backed up by logical arguments and authentic references, then there won't be any issue.

Now, on Taqiyya: The following is the meaning of Taqiyya.

In Islam taqiyya تقية (alternative spellings taqiyeh, taqiya, taqiyah, tuqyah) is a form of religious dissimulation, or a legal dispensation whereby a believing individual can deny his faith or commit otherwise illegal or blasphemous acts while they are at risk of significant persecution.

First of all I don't think anyone's at risk in this day and age, for speaking their belief, especially at western society [There might be cases in the third world and extremest communities, where taqiyya must be exercised].

Second, when we are excising taqiyya, then it must be exercised on all subjects, such as shariah.

Just FYI, Reincarnation and Resurrection are separate things. Everyone has their own belief about these topics. The following is mine.

- Reincarnation: elevation of soul to higher sphere in the realm of spirituality, as we get closer to the truth, as each stage is a hadd[level].
- Resurrection : Qiamah, or epoch of knowledge where the truth is revealed in a much wider and intense manner. Resurrection is not one day, it's a cycle. It can last as long as it takes for the men to come to realization. At 49th Imam (our present beloved MHI) the cycle of Resurrection has began, where the mandate of Imamat extends at a global scale. We witness today the activities of Imamati institutions where it impacts humans life for the betterment and qualities of life beyond Jama'at, at a global scale.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:58 pm

Let me ask you this question : are you believe in reincarnation? and I know the answer "no"
Second posting your above comment you are trying to say Ismaili pirs were wrong! Which is an insult of our pirs because all pirs said the same that H. Ali was dasmo naklanki avtar,
Sorry admin I do not agree with your menifestation or reincarnation theory, which is not logical to me.
Sister Noor we are not kinder garden students so you have to show defination of certain words! To show your presence.

www.ismaili.net

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