How old Noah really was?

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:16 am

DID YOU KNOW?

-That Prophet NOAH's age was 950 years, as per Genesis and Quran?

Noah died 350 years after the Flood, at the age of 950: Genesis 9:28:29

In Qur'an Allah say Noah lived 50 years shorter in thousand year. The Qur'an contains 43 references to Noah in 28 suras (chapters),
notably Sura are Nuh and Sura Hud.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:47 am

I do not take this verse literally. 1000 years represents timelessness/agelessness. A person who becomes enlightened, attains immortality and deathlessness as per verses of the Ginan Paacham dise prabhu partak betha:

Jenne didaar dekhiyaa Shaah Ali tannaa,
teni kaayaa avichal a-bhang 28

Tenaa paap gayaa bhavo bhav tannaa,
paame saat-mo bharmand ji 29

Which translate as:

28. The one who attains the vision of Shah Ali, his body becomes immortal and invincible.

29. His sins of all ages vanish and he attains the seventh heaven.

Hazarat Noah was an enlightened soul and in this sense he was 1000 years old, but because he lived in the material world his immortality was ‘interrupted” by his age in this world (50 years). Hence his age as mentioned in the Quran is 950 years.

I think the message of this verse is that when a person becomes immortal, he is not affected by the influence of time. The experience in this world becomes insignificant in comparison to the experience of the hereafter. That is why we are told in our faith to protect ourselves by purification so that we are not affected by the vagaries of time as per verse of Ginan Kalpat Jal Pat:

"If you are as pure as water, you are not affected by time".

The 'flood' is time and the 'ark' is the protection of purity through spiritual enlightenment.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 12:26 pm

Code: Select all

I do not take this verse literally

Karim Bhai,
Every one has right to believe or not to believe, I wrote the Noah's age after looking the Quran-e-Sharif and Genesis.
It is a beauty of Ismaili.net that you can post your disbelief if you do not agree, by the way I would accept what Quran and
Geneses say about the Noah's age, no force to anyone.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Sat Oct 30, 2010 12:00 pm

The question should'nt be how old Prophet Nuh[as] was ? The question that we should ask is "How can a man at the time can make a gigantic boat with his bare hands ???? "

Can you answer that ??

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 3:37 am

Answer is very simple 'WITH THE HELP OF ALLAH' NOBODY ELSE BUT ONLY ALLAH , Allah say in Quran that he guided to make a boat and as per many books, his sons and other followers (not all some were laughing and teasing at him when Noah was making boat) also helped him, so he was not the only one. In my opinion Allah's blessings were played important role to make that gigantic boat.

LOOK SURATUAL HUD AYAT # 37

IN THIS AYAT ALLAH SAY MAKE A BOAT IN PRESENCE OF ME AND AS PER GUIDANCE OF MINE (not the exact words as quoted in Quran)
now think what else Hazarat Noah need when Allah was with him?

In addition of all of these let me ask you one question if you can answer this then you will find right answer easily.
HOW HAZARAT NOAH (S.A.) GATHERED ALL THE PAIRS TOGETHER (BIRDS, WILD ANIMAL, POISONS SNAKES VEGETABLES E.T.C.) IN A BOAT, AND HOW HE ACCOMMODATED ALL OF THESE THOUSANDS COUPLES? HOW HE ARRANGED FOOD FOR ALL AT LEAST 40 DAYS?

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 7:05 am

Answer is very simple 'WITH THE HELP OF ALLAH' NOBODY ELSE BUT ONLY ALLAH , Allah say in Quran that he guided to make a boat and as per many books, his sons and other followers (not all some were laughing and teasing at him when Noah was making boat) also helped him, so he was not the only one. In my opinion Allah's blessings were played important role to make that gigantic boat.

LOOK SURATUAL HUD AYAT # 37

IN THIS AYAT ALLAH SAY MAKE A BOAT IN PRESENCE OF ME AND AS PER GUIDANCE OF MINE (not the exact words as quoted in Quran)
now think what else Hazarat Noah need when Allah was with him?

Bhai agakhani, do not restrict your AKL just till quran ....I totally understand and appreciate your views but what you forget it.....EVERYTHING in this universe is gift of allah or in other words creation of allah....In the same quran allah said BE and it was there......now do you think allah will go through this tiresome project of making a boat and gathering all the animals when he can just say BE and everything is done ??

Plus how can a single person , single handedly create a boat which was huuuuuuuge ??? How can he assemble those gigantic pieces ?? Ofcourse allah dint come down personally ? Then ??

I want you to read the ancestry of h.nuh[as] .......read the history of his great grandfather ENOCH ....here's the link

http://www.heaven.net.nz/writings/thebookofenoch.htm

this is just a few para's in his book where he says ......

6
And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto them beautiful and comely daughters. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men and beget us children.' And Semjâzâ, who was their leader, said unto them: 'I fear ye will not indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin.' And they all answered him and said: 'Let us all swear an oath, and all bind ourselves by mutual imprecations not to abandon this plan but to do this thing.' Then sware they all together and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. And they were in all two hundred; who descended in the days of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. And these are the names of their leaders: Samîazâz, their leader, Arâkîba, Râmêêl, Kôkabîêl, Tâmîêl, Râmîêl, Dânêl, Êzêqêêl, Barâqîjâl, Asâêl, Armârôs, Batârêl, Anânêl, Zaqîêl, Samsâpêêl, Satarêl, Tûrêl, Jômjâêl, Sariêl. These are their chiefs of tens.

7
And all the others together with them took unto themselves wives, and each chose for himself one, and they began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them, and they taught them charms and enchantments, and the cutting of roots, and made them acquainted with plants. And they became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was three thousand ells: Who consumed all the acquisitions of men. And when men could no longer sustain them, the giants turned against them and devoured mankind. And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and fish, and to devour one another's flesh, and drink the blood. Then the earth laid accusation against the lawless ones.

8
And Azâzêl taught men to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to them the metals of the earth and the art of working them, and bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of antimony, and the beautifying of the eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all colouring tinctures. And there arose much godlessness, and they committed fornication, and they were led astray, and became corrupt in all their ways. Semjâzâ taught enchantments, and root-cuttings, 'Armârôs the resolving of enchantments, Barâqîjâl (taught) astrology, Kôkabêl the constellations, Êzêqêêl the knowledge of the clouds, Araqiêl the signs of the earth, Shamsiêl the signs of the sun, and Sariêl the course of the moon. And as men perished, they cried, and their cry went up to heaven...

In addition of all of these let me ask you one question if you can answer this then you will find right answer easily.
HOW HAZARAT NOAH (S.A.) GATHERED ALL THE PAIRS TOGETHER (BIRDS, WILD ANIMAL, POISONS SNAKES VEGETABLES E.T.C.) IN A BOAT, AND HOW HE ACCOMMODATED ALL OF THESE THOUSANDS COUPLES? HOW HE ARRANGED FOOD FOR ALL AT LEAST 40 DAYS?

As per my view he dint gather any, infact they were gathered by beings who were far more advanced that him and had all the knowledge of living species [male/female]

Logically speaking, how could you look at a snake and say whether its male or female ??

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 7:39 am

Man the book of ENOCH is soooo mind blowing i just cant help but write more on this .....

9
And then Michael, Uriel, Raphael, and Gabriel looked down from heaven and saw much blood being shed upon the earth, and all lawlessness being wrought upon the earth. And they said one to another: 'The earth made without inhabitant cries the voice of their cryingst up to the gates of heaven. And now to you, the holy ones of heaven, the souls of men make their suit, saying, "Bring our cause before the Most High."' And they said to the Lord of the ages: 'Lord of lords, God of gods, King of kings, and God of the ages, the throne of Thy glory (standeth) unto all the generations of the ages, and Thy name holy and glorious and blessed unto all the ages! Thou hast made all things, and power over all things hast Thou: and all things are naked and open in Thy sight, and Thou seest all things, and nothing can hide itself from Thee. Thou seest what Azâzêl hath done, who hath taught all unrighteousness on earth and revealed the eternal secrets which were (preserved) in heaven, which men were striving to learn: And Semjâzâ, to whom Thou hast given authority to bear rule over his associates. And they have gone to the daughters of men upon the earth, and have slept with the women, and have defiled themselves, and revealed to them all kinds of sins. And the women have borne giants, and the whole earth has thereby been filled with blood and unrighteousness. And now, behold, the souls of those who have died are crying and making their suit to the gates of heaven, and their lamentations have ascended: and cannot cease because of the lawless deeds which are wrought on the earth. And Thou knowest all things before they come to pass, and Thou seest these things and Thou dost suffer them, and Thou dost not say to us what we are to do to them in regard to these.'

10

Then said the Most High, the Holy and Great One spake, and sent Uriel to the son of Lamech, and said to him: 'Go to Noah and tell him in my name "Hide thyself!" and reveal to him the end that is approaching: that the whole earth will be destroyed, and a deluge is about to come upon the whole earth, and will destroy all that is on it. And now instruct him that he may escape and his seed may be preserved for all the generations of the world.'

And again the Lord said to Raphael: 'Bind Azâzêl hand and foot, and cast him into the darkness: and make an opening in the desert, which is in Dûdâêl, and cast him therein. And place upon him rough and jagged rocks, and cover him with darkness, and let him abide there for ever, and cover his face that he may not see light. And on the day of the great judgement he shall be cast into the fire. And heal the earth which the angels have corrupted, and proclaim the healing of the earth, that they may heal the plague, and that all the children of men may not perish through all the secret things that the Watchers have disclosed and have taught their sons. And the whole earth has been corrupted through the works that were taught by Azâzêl: to him ascribe all sin.' And to Gabriel said the Lord: 'Proceed against the bastards and the reprobates, and against the children of fornication: and destroy [the children of fornication and] the children of the Watchers from amongst men [and cause them to go forth]: send them one against the other that they may destroy each other in battle: for length of days shall they not have. And no request that they (i.e. their fathers) make of thee shall be granted unto their fathers on their behalf; for they hope to live an eternal life, and that each one of them will live five hundred years.' And the Lord said unto Michael: 'Go, bind Semjâzâ and his associates who have united themselves with women so as to have defiled themselves with them in all their uncleanness. And when their sons have slain one another, and they have seen the destruction of their beloved ones, bind them fast for seventy generations in the valleys of the earth, till the day of their judgement and of their consummation, till the judgement that is for ever and ever is consummated. In those days they shall be led off to the abyss of fire: and to the torment and the prison in which they shall be confined for ever. And whosoever shall be condemned and destroyed will from thenceforth be bound together with them to the end of all generations. And destroy all the spirits of the reprobate and the children of the Watchers, because they have wronged mankind. Destroy all wrong from the face of the earth and let every evil work come to an end: and let the plant of righteousness and truth appear: and it shall prove a blessing; the works of righteousness and truth' shall be planted in truth and joy for evermore.

And then shall all the righteous escape,
And shall live till they beget thousands of children,
And all the days of their youth and their old age
Shall they complete in peace.

And then shall the whole earth be tilled in righteousness, and shall all be planted with trees and be full of blessing. And all desirable trees shall be planted on it, and they shall plant vines on it: and the vine which they plant thereon shall yield wine in abundance, and as for all the seed which is sown thereon each measure (of it) shall bear a thousand, and each measure of olives shall yield ten presses of oil. And cleanse thou the earth from all oppression, and from all unrighteousness, and from all sin, and from all godlessness: and all the uncleanness that is wrought upon the earth destroy from off the earth. And all the children of men shall become righteous, and all nations shall offer adoration and shall praise Me, and all shall worship Me. And the earth shall be cleansed from all defilement, and from all sin, and from all punishment, and from all torment, and I will never again send (them) upon it from generation to generation and for ever.

11

And in those days I will open the store chambers of blessing which are in the heaven, so as to send them down upon the earth over the work and labour of the children of men. And truth and peace shall be associated together throughout all the days of the world and throughout all the generations of men.'

12

Before these things Enoch[grandfather of h.nuh] was hidden, and no one of the children of men knew where he was hidden, and where he abode, and what had become of him. And his activities had to do with the Watchers, and his days were with the holy ones. And Enoch was blessing the Lord of majesty and the King of the ages, and lo! the Watchers called me --Enoch the scribe-- and said to me: 'Enoch, thou scribe of righteousness, go, declare to the Watchers of the heaven who have left the high heaven, the holy eternal place, and have defiled themselves with women, and have done as the children of earth do, and have taken unto themselves wives: "Ye have wrought great destruction on the earth: And ye shall have no peace nor forgiveness of sin: and in as much as they delight themselves in their children, The murder of their beloved ones shall they see, and over the destruction of their children shall they lament, and shall make supplication unto eternity, but mercy and peace shall ye not attain."'

13

And Enoch went and said: 'Azâzêl, thou shalt have no peace: a severe sentence has gone forth against thee to put thee in bonds: And thou shalt not have toleration nor request granted to thee, because of the unrighteousness which thou hast taught, and because of all the works of godlessness and unrighteousness and sin which thou hast shown to men.' Then I went and spoke to them all together, and they were all afraid, and fear and trembling seized them. And they besought me to draw up a petition for them that they might find forgiveness, and to read their petition in the presence of the Lord of heaven. For from thenceforward they could not speak (with Him) nor lift up their eyes to heaven for shame of their sins for which they had been condemned. Then I wrote out their petition, and the prayer in regard to their spirits and their deeds individually and in regard to their requests that they should have forgiveness and length. And I went off and sat down at the waters of Dan, in the land of Dan, to the south of the west of Hermon: I read their petition till I fell asleep. And behold a dream came to me, and visions fell down upon me, and I saw visions of chastisement, and a voice came bidding (me) to tell it to the sons of heaven, and reprimand them. And when I awaked, I came unto them, and they were all sitting gathered together, weeping in 'Abelsjâîl, which is between Lebanon and Sênêsêr, with their faces covered. And I recounted before them all the visions which I had seen in sleep, and I began to speak the words of righteousness, and to reprimand the heavenly Watchers.

Now what is interesting is how he was lifted you in the skies

SAUCERS ???? you decide

14

The book of the words of righteousness, and of the reprimand of the eternal Watchers in accordance with the command of the Holy Great One in that vision. I saw in my sleep what I will now say with a tongue of flesh and with the breath of my mouth: which the Great One has given to men to converse therewith and understand with the heart. As He has created and given to man the power of understanding the word of wisdom, so hath He created me also and given me the power of reprimanding the Watchers, the children of heaven. I wrote out your petition, and in my vision it appeared thus, that your petition will not be granted unto you throughout all the days of eternity, and that judgement has been finally passed upon you: yea (your petition) will not be granted unto you. And from henceforth you shall not ascend into heaven unto all eternity, and in bonds of the earth the decree has gone forth to bind you for all the days of the world. And (that) previously you shall have seen the destruction of your beloved sons and ye shall have no pleasure in them, but they shall fall before you by the sword. And your petition on their behalf shall not be granted, nor yet on your own: even though you weep and pray and speak all the words contained in the writing which I have written. And the vision was shown to me thus: Behold, in the vision clouds invited me and a mist summoned me, and the course of the stars and the lightnings sped and hastened me, and the winds in the vision caused me to fly and lifted me upward, and bore me into heaven. And I went in till I drew nigh to a wall which is built of crystals and surrounded by tongues of fire: and it began to affright me. And I went into the tongues of fire and drew nigh to a large house which was built of crystals: and the walls of the house were like a tesselated floor (made) of crystals, and its groundwork was of crystal. Its ceiling was like the path of the stars and the lightnings, and between them were fiery cherubim, and their heaven was (clear as) water. A flaming fire surrounded the walls, and its portals blazed with fire. And I entered into that house, and it was hot as fire and cold as ice: there were no delights of life therein: fear covered me, and trembling gat hold upon me. And as I quaked and trembled, I fell upon my face. And I beheld a vision, And lo! there was a second house, greater than the former, and the entire portal stood open before me, and it was built of flames of fire. And in every respect it so excelled in splendour and magnificence and extent that I cannot describe to you its splendour and its extent. And its floor was of fire, and above it were lightnings and the path of the stars, and its ceiling also was flaming fire. And I looked and saw therein a lofty throne: its appearance was as crystal, and the wheels thereof as the shining sun, and there was the vision of cherubim. And from underneath the throne came streams of flaming fire so that I could not look thereon. And the Great Glory sat thereon, and His raiment shone more brightly than the sun and was whiter than any snow. None of the angels could enter and could behold His face by reason of the magnificence and glory and no flesh could behold Him. The flaming fire was round about Him, and a great fire stood before Him, and none around could draw nigh Him: ten thousand times ten thousand (stood) before Him, yet He needed no counselor. And the most holy ones who were nigh to Him did not leave by night nor depart from Him. And until then I had been prostrate on my face, trembling: and the Lord called me with His own mouth, and said to me: 'Come hither, Enoch, and hear my word.' And one of the holy ones came to me and waked me, and He made me rise up and approach the door: and I bowed my face downwards.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:31 am

I FOUND IT !!!! ..............allah hu akbar !!!

In the same book of ENOCH, god says :

67

And in those days the word of God came unto me, and He said unto me: 'Noah, thy lot has come up before Me, a lot without blame, a lot of love and uprightness. And now the angels are making a wooden (building), and when they have completed that task I will place My hand upon it and preserve it, and there shall come forth from it the seed of life, and a change shall set in so that the earth will not remain without inhabitant. And I will make fast thy sed before me for ever and ever, and I will spread abroad those who dwell with thee: it shall not be unfruitful on the face of the earth, but it shall be blessed and multiply on the earth in the name of the Lord.' And He will imprison those angels, who have shown unrighteousness, in that burning valley which my grandfather Enoch had formerly shown to me in the west among the mountains of gold and silver and iron and soft metal and tin. And I saw that valley in which there was a great convulsion and a convulsion of the waters. And when all this took place, from that fiery molten metal and from the convulsion thereof in that place, there was produced a smell of sulphur, and it was connected with those waters, and that valley of the angels who had led astray (mankind) burned beneath that land. And through its valleys proceed streams of fire, where these angels are punished who had led astray those who dwell upon the earth. But those waters shall in those days serve for the kings and the mighty and the exalted, and those who dwell on the earth, for the healing of the body, but for the punishment of the spirit; now their spirit is full of lust, that they may be punished in their body, for they have denied the Lord of Spirits and see their punishment daily, and yet believe not in His name. And in proportion as the burning of their bodies becomes severe, a corresponding change shall take place in their spirit for ever and ever; for before the Lord of Spirits none shall utter an idle word. For the judgement shall come upon them, because they believe in the lust of their body and deny the Spirit of the Lord. And those same waters will undergo a change in those days; for when those angels are punished in these waters, these water-springs shall change their temperature, and when the angels ascend, this water of the springs shall change and become cold. And I heard Michael answering and saying: ' This judgement wherewith the angels are judged is a testimony for the kings and the mighty who possess the earth.' Because these waters of judgement minister to the healing of the body of the kings and the lust of their body; therefore they will not see and will not believe that those waters will change and become a fire which burns for ever.

Not just this, the book of ENOCH also talk about the CHOSEN ONE

....plus ENOCH dint die !! Yes he did not die !!!!!! A chariot came from the heaven came and raised him

70

And it came to pass after this that his name during his lifetime was raised aloft to that Son of Man and to the Lord of Spirits from amongst those who dwell on the earth. And he was raised aloft on the chariots of the spirit and his name vanished among them. And from that day I was no longer numbered amongst them: and he set me between the two winds, between the North and the West, where the angels took the cords to measure for me the place for the elect and righteous. And there I saw the first fathers and the righteous who from the beginning dwell in that place.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:06 am

Thanks for sharing all these information, I haven't read all but I got the messages. It is good efforts from your side and very informative material good for me and for other scholars as well and thanks for your time you spend for collecting all these information.
In my opinion believes and faith in religion play a big role when you do not have solid proof of any thing for example Prophet Noah's age, the creation of whole universe e.t.c. Holy Quran say it took 6 days to Allah to create whole universe some say it took only few seconds to Allah, Allah just said 'KUN' and all universe came out, some believe in Darwin evolution theory some don't, some believe that this is not the only universe there are many (which still not come in light yet) and may be one of day these universes will come in light.
In my all post I always refer GINANS, QURANS, HADITHS AND MHI'S Farmans but I always give more importance to the Ginans.
IT IS POSSIBLE THAT MY INTERPRETATION OF GINAN AND TRANSLATION OF GINANS MAY BE WRONG, I NEVER CLAIM MYSELF AS A SCHOLAR.
In last, I would accept what Quran say rather that ENOCH or the link you provided above, here I repeat again that it is totally up to any individual's own believes and faith.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:33 am

In last, I would accept what Quran say rather that ENOCH or the link you provided above, here I repeat again that it is totally up to any individual's own believes and faith.

Yes you are correct that we should have full faith in our holy book....but what you forget brother that this book was written by a prophet and not my any other person.

Enoch was a holy prophet[mentioned in bible] and thus god revealed him all the necessary knowledge and wisdom not just about heavens....but also the sun, the moon and other heavenly bodies........the length of the months, years and how they're calculated.......the life cycles, the plants ....the trees...the fruits

So what iam trying to tell you is that ENOCH wrote this down even before H.NUH was chosen a prophet , it was written even before H.Musa , H.Isaa and Rasool[saw] came into existance......He warned H.Nuh about the gr8 calamity that shall befall upon earth....later it was god who told him about it and how he will protect him and his people along with the chosen animals.

What are the chariots ENOCH is talking about ?? He actually lavitated !! how ??? Were there aliens that ENOCH mistakenly believed as god ?? Or it was god and the angels which came in a flying chariot or saucer ???

THATS MY QUESTION

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:29 am

Shiraz,
IS ENOCH IS THE SAME PROPHET QURAN REFERRED TO AS IDRIS? WAS HE THE GREAT GRANDFATHER OF PROPHET NOAH AND SON OF JARED?

If your answer is yes, then I need some more time to study Old and new Testament, Bible,Genesis and Quran.

Your question seems interesting to me we need healthy discussion on this topic, however your question remain open till someone give right answer, does any other scholars/readers have answer? if yes Please come forward and answer this.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:04 am

After studding few books which I have, here are some facts about Enoch which I found.
It is not necessary to believe that my findings are 100% correct.

The Holy Quran contains only two references to Enoch
1, In surah "Al- ANABIA" ayat # 85
2, In surah "MARIAM" ayat # 56.
3, As per one reading there is one Hadith about Enoch which say Prophet Mohammad met him on 4th heaven while one book say there is not a single Hadith on him.
4, Enoch is noted as one of two humans who, according to Christian tradition, were assumed into heaven.
5, Enoch was a prophet as per Toret, Genesis and Quran.
6. In Quran Enoch is referred as IDRIS.
7. Enoch was son of Jared and great grandfather of Prophet Noah.
8, Enoch had knowledge that flood will be come soon.
9, There are some details also available in New and Old Testaments on Enoch.
ABOUT HIS BOOKS AND WRITING:-
Enoch 1st book the "Book of Enoch" is an apocryphal and unreliable book according many scholars, some scholars also doubt about the authorship of this book by Enoch, so I personally can not trust and accept this book as a solid proof but I respect this book as Quran and if I find this book and other his books in local library then Inshallah (may be) I will read it.

In my opinion it is nothing wrong to accept any good morals and lessons from above book and any other religious books not only Enoch but any prophet as long as its does not create any conflict against Quran, Islam and Isamili principals.
Also we should respect him a prophet and read his books same way we read and respect other holy books like Bibles, Toret, Quran and Hadiths despite we know that there are many changes in these books.
Here I quote one ( not exact words) Farman of Mowlana Sultan Mohammad Shah, SMS once said that Hadiths are not 100% right, hadiths has been changed many time, but if you find some thing good in hadiths then accept it so there is nothing wrong to read Enoch books thanks for sharing this interesting material.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:17 am

The Holy Quran contains only two references to Enoch
1, In surah "Al- ANABIA" ayat # 85
2, In surah "MARIAM" ayat # 56.
3, As per one reading there is one Hadith about Enoch which say Prophet Mohammad met him on 4th heaven while one book say there is not a single Hadith on him.
4, Enoch is noted as one of two humans who, according to Christian tradition, were assumed into heaven.
5, Enoch was a prophet as per Toret, Genesis and Quran.
6. In Quran Enoch is referred as IDRIS.
7. Enoch was son of Jared and great grandfather of Prophet Noah.
8, Enoch had knowledge that flood will be come soon.
9, There are some details also available in New and Old Testaments on Enoch.

Brother please stop copy/pasting from Wikipedia because thats not a reliable source.

There are three Enochs mentioned in the Bible. The first Enoch is a son of Cain[who was the son of h.adam] and the second Enoch is a town named after the first (Genesis 4:17). The third Enoch is a son of Jared, of the line of Seth, third son of Adam and Eve (Genesis 5:19). This Enoch, who famously "walked with God," is the seventh generation (where Adam is the first).

Remember !! god talks about H.Ismail , H.Ezekiel and H.Idris, Brother if you look at the table of prophets the above 2 prophets fall in the same line , i.e from the progeny of H.Ibrahim[as] ie one being the son of H.Ibrahim and other being his great grandson !! .....However it is very difficult to judge whether the person Idris is infact Enoch........god even mentioned rasool[saw] to make known of prophet Idris...which im pretty sure rasool[saw] did ! but unfortunately all the mysteries vanished after his demise !

There are sooooo many prophets in the past that were taken to heaven for ex : H.Elijah[as] in Kings in bible it says ,

When they had crossed, Elijah said to Elisha, "Tell me what I may do for you, before I am taken from you." Elisha said, "Please let me inherit a double share of your spirit." He responded, "You have asked a hard thing; yet, if you see me as I am being taken from you, it will be granted you; if not, it will not."

As they continued walking and talking, a chariot of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them, and Elijah ascended in a whirlwind into heaven. Elisha kept watching and crying out, "Father, father! The chariots of Israel and its horsemen!"

History was repeated again !!!....not just prophet enoch but even prophet elijah was lifted by the same chariots of god

ABOUT HIS BOOKS AND WRITING:-
Enoch 1st book the "Book of Enoch" is an apocryphal and unreliable book according many scholars, some scholars also doubt about the authorship of this book by Enoch, so I personally can not trust and accept this book as a solid proof but I respect this book as Quran and if I find this book and other his books in local library then Inshallah (may be) I will read it.

It is unreliable only to those who are not catholics for if you read the book of enoch it talks about the CHOSEN ONE [pope, IMAM

]

In my opinion it is nothing wrong to accept any good morals and lessons from above book and any other religious books not only Enoch but any prophet as long as its does not create any conflict against Quran, Islam and Isamili principals.
Also we should respect him a prophet and read his books same way we read and respect other holy books like Bibles, Toret, Quran and Hadiths despite we know that there are many changes in these books.

Brother there is a difference between reading a book and UNDERSTANDING the book

Here I quote one ( not exact words) Farman of Mowlana Sultan Mohammad Shah, SMS once said that Hadiths are not 100% right, hadiths has been changed many time, but if you find some thing good in hadiths then accept it so there is nothing wrong to read Enoch books thanks for sharing this interesting material.

The problem with sultan muhammad shah was even he dint knew which hadith were right or wrong , hence he gave more importance on ginans !!!

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:51 am

Brother,

Honestly, whatever I wrote above on Prophet Enoch and his book was as per my little ability and little knowledge because I have not read Enoch any books yet! and my thinking does not abide anyone to accept or believe it as 100% correct.

But your questions on this topic definitely forced me to read some books which I haven't and forced me to surf the web, be honest with you I do not know that Enoch was a prophet until I read and surf the web on Enoch, so I must thank you.

Meanwhile I have not read Enoch any book yet, so I can not give more inputs on this topic, so basically your hand remain top till someone else come forward and challenge you, I will also defend and back whatever I wrote in my above post.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:33 am

But your questions on this topic definitely forced me to read some books which I haven't and forced me to surf the web, be honest with you I do not know that Enoch was a prophet until I read and surf the web on Enoch, so I must thank you.

You dont have to thank me.... thank allah[swt] who guides whoever he wants

Meanwhile I have not read Enoch any book yet, so I can not give more inputs on this topic, so basically your hand remain top till someone else come forward and challenge you, I will also defend and back whatever I wrote in my above post.

Oh no brother we are not playing win win here....so theres no question of that !!!.....What I have done is put forth some view and proofs that say that the chariots of gods are indeed a flying saucer.....the reason why iam saying this is if u read mahabharat you'll see all the hindu god flying on a chariot whose wheels are on fire....then again in christianity we see sooo many prophets being raised by the chariots of fire...so what are these chariots of god ?? We all know that science is creation of god ,then is it not that god himself created a gadget which people in olden days referred to as chariots of god ????

something to ponder upon eh ?

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:20 am

There were many doubts about the story of Noah's ark in earlier times and thats why many people tried to interpret it as a symbolical story rather then actual historical event. However, in contemporary times many evidences have been found which actually shows this is what has actually happened.

Below is the link
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... t=noah+ark

Although the initial posts in the thread actually talks about the messages that we get from this story. But in the later posts there are several posts and articles about how this event had actually happened.

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:55 pm

Regarding the question
"How can a man at the time can make a gigantic boat with his bare hands ???? "

The ship was not built with modern machinery and equipments. It was quite simple. He would have possess some tools which helped him in making that.
Look at the Pyramids in Egypt or Great Wall in China. Just think how strange is that without the presence of technology and modern equipments how people of that ancient era had built it. This does not means that they do not simply exist or it has no history.
The same is the case with the Noah's Ark.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:00 am

And of course the help of Almighty Allah; don't forget god, Allah say in Quran that he guided to make a boat to Noah.
Munir,
In the same token let me ask you one question here, many evangelist claims that they found Noah's ark in Iran, Turkey, china and even in Russia, nobody claimed yet that they found Noah's ark in India or in USA!! just kidding but there are many claims regarding Noah's ark.
But let focus on only one country right now Russia, I read in one article that some broken pieces of Noah's ark was found in Soviet Russia in middle of 20th century, that might be true or false, but what surprise me most is they also claimed that there were some names written in old 'HIBRU" language on one wooden piece and many scholars believe that those names are belongs to Ahle Bait!!? any answer about this question?

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:13 am

Yes, this has appeared in many magazines and newspapers. Alwaez Kamaluddin has also mentioned this in his book "Ayat ul hudda" and Bahadur Ali missionary had narrated about this in one of his waezes and had given also references of many news papers of different countries where this news was published. I had also earlier posted some articles in this regard in one of the threads. I have posted the link in my previous posts. You may see there if you wish.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:03 am

Thanks, I will search your older post and read it, by the way if you know the waez # of Bahadur Ali Rajani then please post it here,
so that I don't have to listen all his waez again.

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:00 pm

Sorry I dont remember the waez number but the waez was related to Panjtan Pak and Hazrat Ali. If any one else remember it, then do kindly share it.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:18 am

That is fine, I will listen all waez of Bahadur Ali Rajani, I think his 26 waezs available in Ismaili.net.

MR-FORGET · Post by **MR-FORGET** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:25 pm

That Prophet NOAH's age was 950 years, as per Genesis and Quran?

Does any one know:-
1, How many years Hazarat Adam lived on heaven and how many years he lived on this earth?
2, Does we have any evidence that he really lived on this earth? like Prophet's Noah'a Ark as described in this thread above.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:26 pm

Does we have any evidence that he really lived on this earth? like Prophet's Noah'a Ark as described in this thread above.

We human being ("AADAMI") is the solid evidence that Hazarat Adam lived on this earth, what other evidence you need brother?
FYI:- Aadmi is called after Hazarat Adam. ADAM= AADAMI.

As per many sources Hazarat Adam llived on this earth around 1000 years, but I don't know how many years he lived in heaven, ( if heaven is really exist).
The other evidence as per Dr. Rai Abu Ali is he was landed in Sri Lanka and Bibi Hava (EVE) landed in Zidah and after 80 years they met each other and thus human generation was started.

MR-FORGET · Post by **MR-FORGET** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:18 am

Thanks for answer, I know that we Adami called after Dada Adam but what I really wanted to know was about any evidence of dada Adam'd found on this earth? for a example; more than 50 years ago pieces of Noah's Ark was found in Soviet unions.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:43 am

As long as I know there is no other evidence found so far any where on this earth about Hazarat Adam and Eve's existence on this earth.
In my opinion we human beings (Adami) as described above and Noble Quran is the solid evidence for Hazarat Adam was existed on this earth from heaven many years ago.
According to the Qur'an, God created humankind out of clay, shaped it to a form and then commanded the angels to bow (submit) to Adam. Iblis refused out of pride and was banished from Jannah (Heaven).

In the Garden of Eden, Iblis (later known as Shaytan) lured Adam and Eve into disobeying God by tasting from the forbidden tree. God, as a punishment, sends Adam and Eve out into the rest of the earth.

The Qur'an also describes the two sons of Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel.

How old Noah really was?

How old Noah really was?

Your question is interesting.