2012...What's your take on this topic.

haroon_adel · Post by **haroon_adel** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:14 pm

YAM all,

If you google search 2012, you'll get hundereds of thausands hits about 2012 or end of the world. What do you think about it? I personally think, it's like another Y2K. Your input...

Thanks,

Haroon.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:46 pm

NOSTERDAMUS - A LETTER TO HIS SON CESAR

extract

For only Eternal God knows the eternity of His light which proceeds from Him, and I speak frankly to those to whom His immeasurable, immense and incomprehensible greatness has been disposed to grant revelations through long, melancholy inspiration, that with the aid of this hidden element manifested by God, there are two principal factors which make up the prophet's intelligence.

The first is when the supernatural light fills and illuminates the person who predicts by astral science, while the second allows him to prophesy through inspired revelation, which is only a part of the divine eternity, whereby the prophet comes to assess what his divinatory power has given him through the grace of God and by a natural gift, namely, that what is foretold is true and ethereal in origin (5).

And such a light and small flame is of great efficacy and scope, and nothing less than the clarity of nature itself. The light of human nature makes the philosophers so sure of themselves that with the principles of the first cause they reach the loftiest doctrines and the deepest abysses. But my son, lest I venture too far for your future perception, be aware that men of letters shall make grand and usually boastful claims about the way I interpreted the world, before the worldwide conflagration which is to bring so many catastrophes and such revolutions that scarcely any lands will not be covered by water (6), and this will last until all has perished save history and geography themselves. This is why, before and after these revolutions in various countries, the rains will be so diminished and such abundance of fire and fiery missiles shall fall from the heavens that nothing shall escape the holocaust. And this will occur before the last conflagration [1999].

For before war ends the [twentieth] century and in its final stages [1975-99] it will hold the century under its sway. Some countries will be in the grip of revolution (7) for several years, and others ruined for a still longer period. And now that we are in a republican era, with Almighty God's aid, and before completing its full cycle, the monarchy will return, then the Golden Age (8). For according to the celestial signs, the Golden Age shall return, and after all calculations, with the world near to an all-encompassing revolution - from the time of writing 177 years 3 months 11 days (9) - plague, long famine and wars, and still more floods from now until the stated time. Before and after these, humanity shall several times be so severely diminished that scarcely anyone shall be found who wishes to take over the fields, which shall become free where they had previously been tied.

This will be after the visible judgment of heaven, before we reach the millennium which shall complete all. In the firmament of the eighth sphere, a dimension whereon Almighty God will complete the revolution, and where the constellations will resume their motion which will render the earth stable and firm, but only if He will remain unchanged for ever until His will be done.

This is in spite of all the ambiguous opinions surpassing all natural reason, expressed by Mahomet[ PROPHET MUHAMMAD[SAW]]; which is why God the Creator, through the ministry of his fiery agents with their flames, will come to propose to our perceptions as well as our eyes the reasons for future predictions.

Signs of events to come must be manifested to whomever prophesies. For prophecy which stems from exterior illumination is part of that light and seeks to ally with it and bring it into being so that the part which seems to possess the faculty of understanding is not subject to a sickness of the mind.

Reason is only too evident. Everything is predicted by divine afflatus (10) and thanks to an angelic spirit inspiring the one prophesying, consecrating his predictions through divine unction. It also divests him of all fantasies by means of various nocturnal apparitions, while with daily certainty he prophesies through the science of astronomy, with the aid of sacred prophecy, his only consideration being his courage in freedom.

So come, my son, strive to understand what I have found out through my calculations which accord with revealed inspiration, because now the sword of death approaches us, with pestilence and war more horrible than there has ever been - because of three men's work - and famine. And this sword shall smite the earth and return to it often, for the stars confirm this upheaval and it is also written: I shall punish their injustices with iron rods, and shall strike them with blows

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:12 pm

28.

The next to last of the prophet's surname
Will take Diana for his day and rest ,
He will wander far with his frenetic head ,
And deliver a great people from tribute.

"the next to the last prophet's surname" is generally seen as referring to the descendants of prophet muhammad[saw] since the last prophet as known to mankind was prophet of islam [pbuh]

Diana = goddess of the moon

haroon_adel · Post by **haroon_adel** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:56 pm

Can you put these in your own words?

Nostradamus didn't make any prediction. Predection is something very specific, as "This event will happend at such and such date/time" where as Nostradamus's "predictions" are always as (Something "like this" might happen arround "range of date"). As soon as the work "like this" appreas, its totally subjective open for discussion/interpretation. And it can be interpreted in any ways by anyone. I think Nostradamus's followers interprete his writings the way it's presented now to public.

The other thing that contributes to 2012 event is that Maya's Long Count ending in winter of 2012 (Dec 21 2012 to be exact). Most proponents speculate this date to be end of current civilization and begining of a new era; again subjectively speaking.

From the astronomical point of view, there's going to be significant changes (alignments of starts/planets) in our solar system/galaxy, which is phenomenal. According to astrologists it happens every 26000 years; however, that doesn't necessarily mean that its going to be the end of civilization.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 8:17 pm

lemme give you an easy example ...

do you wear a watch ? A DIGITAL WATCH ?

if you get a chance check the digital watch and see how it works....the latest digital watches have a calendar upto 2099 and after that it goes back on 2000 , most of the watches have 100 years calendar.

so what after that 100 years ?? DOES THE WORLD COME TO AN END ?

NO !!!

we simply make calendar for another 100-200 years !!!

AsadALLAH · Post by **AsadALLAH** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 12:24 pm

I will let my Mowla worry about that. Since he has created this universe and everything in it, it would be only wise to put your full faith in him. Besides, if that's the case, why is our Mowla looking 500 to 1000 years ahead in the future when he's building all his schools and other projects?

haroon_adel · Post by **haroon_adel** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:43 pm

shiraz.virani wrote:lemme give you an easy example ...

do you wear a watch ? A DIGITAL WATCH ?

if you get a chance check the digital watch and see how it works....the latest digital watches have a calendar upto 2099 and after that it goes back on 2000 , most of the watches have 100 years calendar.

so what after that 100 years ?? DOES THE WORLD COME TO AN END ?

NO !!!

we simply make calendar for another 100-200 years !!!

This analogy of the watch and digital and calendar going all the way to some 2099 and starting over from 2000, is al right, and as a matter of fact doesn't signify the end of the calendar. It's just the way most digital watches are designed. And needless to say that it doesn't indicate the the world is gonna end.

If you look closely what I mentioned about Mayan calendar and all, you'll see that I don't imply the the world is gonna end. There'r always a bunch of people (opportunists) who'll take advantage of a situation. The 2012 movie/doomsday and end of the world/Nostradamus prophecies are all conspiracy and fabrication of such people, who's aim is to scare people in the first place, and then sell them use less materials/how to books about survival and what not.

Asad ullah brother. I couldn't agree more with you. Very well said. This is the way we should do all the time at all matters, for our Maula knows it best and we'll just leave it to him.

naushad25 · Post by **naushad25** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 1:18 pm

nothing is going to happen in 2012. If u hear Rai Abu Aly waez on Dus Avatar. every thing will be cleared how our superb and genius PIRS have found out the correct maths on when this world will go to end. its a waez of 1985-ish and he says that the next 125 years would be very bad for this earth. every disaster will come and every bad thing will happen. ppl will move away from religion. and then after 125 years, the president of china at that time would rule this world and his weapon would be Science and using science he will convince ppl and get them out of their faith. and then when this bad thing will get to its extreme, our Maula will stand and with His followers, He will destroy that huge army of China and then good times will start again. Maula will also use science to destroy them thats why in this age Maula is guiding us towards good education and now many ismailies are going towards science and tech. Interesting thing in our ginans is that Rai Abu aly has said that these superb ginans has also given name of to be Imam at that time and His name would be QASIM. after this period, there would be thousands of good years after which world would end.

haroon_adel · Post by **haroon_adel** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:45 am

naushad25 wrote:nothing is going to happen in 2012. If u hear Rai Abu Aly waez on Dus Avatar. every thing will be cleared how our superb and genius PIRS have found out the correct maths on when this world will go to end. its a waez of 1985-ish and he says that the next 125 years would be very bad for this earth. every disaster will come and every bad thing will happen. ppl will move away from religion. and then after 125 years, the president of china at that time would rule this world and his weapon would be Science and using science he will convince ppl and get them out of their faith. and then when this bad thing will get to its extreme, our Maula will stand and with His followers, He will destroy that huge army of China and then good times will start again. Maula will also use science to destroy them thats why in this age Maula is guiding us towards good education and now many ismailies are going towards science and tech. Interesting thing in our ginans is that Rai Abu aly has said that these superb ginans has also given name of to be Imam at that time and His name would be QASIM. after this period, there would be thousands of good years after which world would end.

Which Waez are you reffering to, I don't know. Can you quote or provide a link to some source? besides, no one knows the next Imam, except the Imam himself.

According to you, China will rule the world by the power of science. Then, our Imam is also encouraging us to seek current and modern education (you approved that), then how this could be a conflict. Fighting science with science.

What you are implying by 125 years bad stuff and followed by 125 good stuff, is the same thing as proponenets claims. The difference is that proponents claims, this bad period will occure much faster with a great intincity, where as you distributed this bad stuff over 125 years. Not sure.

naushad25 · Post by **naushad25** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:54 am

haroon_adel wrote:
naushad25 wrote:nothing is going to happen in 2012. If u hear Rai Abu Aly waez on Dus Avatar. every thing will be cleared how our superb and genius PIRS have found out the correct maths on when this world will go to end. its a waez of 1985-ish and he says that the next 125 years would be very bad for this earth. every disaster will come and every bad thing will happen. ppl will move away from religion. and then after 125 years, the president of china at that time would rule this world and his weapon would be Science and using science he will convince ppl and get them out of their faith. and then when this bad thing will get to its extreme, our Maula will stand and with His followers, He will destroy that huge army of China and then good times will start again. Maula will also use science to destroy them thats why in this age Maula is guiding us towards good education and now many ismailies are going towards science and tech. Interesting thing in our ginans is that Rai Abu aly has said that these superb ginans has also given name of to be Imam at that time and His name would be QASIM. after this period, there would be thousands of good years after which world would end.
 Which Waez are you reffering to, I don't know. Can you quote or provide a link to some source? besides, no one knows the next Imam, except the Imam himself. According to you, China will rule the world by the power of science. Then, our Imam is also encouraging us to seek current and modern education (you approved that), then how this could be a conflict. Fighting science with science. What you are implying by 125 years bad stuff and followed by 125 good stuff, is the same thing as proponenets claims. The difference is that proponents claims, this bad period will occure much faster with a great intincity, where as you distributed this bad stuff over 125 years. Not sure.

Well i am not saying science is a bad thing to. i am saying that they will use science and do bad things. the link is <A href="http://ismaili.net/heritage/audio/by/ar ... > and search for Dus avataar part1 and 2. u will know everything. See Pirs have internal knowledge and our Gianans have many future predictions and ppl like Abu Ali can understand those and tell us. i didnt say followed by 125 good years. if u hear these waez u will get the calculations.

haroon_adel · Post by **haroon_adel** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:19 pm

check this website. It has alot more data:

http://www.december212012.com/phpBB2/vi ... =10&t=3980

naushad25 · Post by **naushad25** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:40 pm

this is all rubbish... nothing is going to happen so soon... and not in this way....

haroon_adel · Post by **haroon_adel** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:06 pm

naushad25 wrote:this is all rubbish... nothing is going to happen so soon... and not in this way....

I don't know. That's why I asked your input in the first place. No one can forcast the future, except only Himself. So, whatever you see or hear its all theories; how much they are true/false, no one can tell for sure.

naushad25 · Post by **naushad25** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:31 am

haroon_adel wrote:
naushad25 wrote:this is all rubbish... nothing is going to happen so soon... and not in this way....
 I don't know. That's why I asked your input in the first place. No one can forcast the future, except only Himself. So, whatever you see or hear its all theories; how much they are true/false, no one can tell for sure.

if you believe our imams and our pirs knowledge then I do belive that what is written in our ginans is the interpretation of Quran and thats what our Alwaez tell us and thats what i have told in my previous post. Pirs were true geniuses. we hae to understand ginans inorder to know abt them.

haroon_adel · Post by **haroon_adel** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:31 am

naushad25 wrote:
haroon_adel wrote:
naushad25 wrote:this is all rubbish... nothing is going to happen so soon... and not in this way....
 I don't know. That's why I asked your input in the first place. No one can forcast the future, except only Himself. So, whatever you see or hear its all theories; how much they are true/false, no one can tell for sure.
 if you believe our imams and our pirs knowledge then I do belive that what is written in our ginans is the interpretation of Quran and thats what our Alwaez tell us and thats what i have told in my previous post. Pirs were true geniuses. we hae to understand ginans inorder to know abt them.

That's a wrong question to be asking, especially from an Ismaili brother/sister. There's no need for me to tell you that I believe in our Imam and his firmans. The one who's questionsing can/should be questioned first.

What I'm really trilled about, is what you've mentioned in your previous reply, saying that 125 years of good stuff and 125 years of bad stuff. Please provide a reference to a vers in Qur'an and/or Hazir Imam's Firman.

You base all your believe/ideas on the link that you posted, "avatar" I don't even know what it is. I do agree that ginans are pretty powerful and has very deeper meaning than what we hear and understand. And I really enjoy listening to Ginans/Qasidas all the time. But what you are claiming about this 125 years, president of china and even the name of next imam. These stuff doesn't make sense to anyone.

Don't ever try to tell any Ismaili what/if they believe to Imam. This is an insult and not the right question to be aksing.

Hazir Imam has always encourages us to seek knowledge. If you open your eyes and try do some research about this matter or any other matter, then I don't think there's anything wrong. But, if you close yours eyes and do nothing and just listen to ginan, then I don't think you are following Imam's Firman properly. Hey, don't get me wrong here. I do listen to Qasida/Ginan all the time and I'm really enjoying it, but I am also open to research and seeking knowledge, which brings questions/discussions along the way.

In short, I simply asked your openion, and you gave it. that's it. No need to question anyone's believe/fait.

ShamsB · Post by **ShamsB** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:14 pm

haroon_adel wrote:
naushad25 wrote:
haroon_adel wrote: I don't know. That's why I asked your input in the first place. No one can forcast the future, except only Himself. So, whatever you see or hear its all theories; how much they are true/false, no one can tell for sure.
 if you believe our imams and our pirs knowledge then I do belive that what is written in our ginans is the interpretation of Quran and thats what our Alwaez tell us and thats what i have told in my previous post. Pirs were true geniuses. we hae to understand ginans inorder to know abt them.
That's a wrong question to be asking, especially from an Ismaili brother/sister. There's no need for me to tell you that I believe in our Imam and his firmans. The one who's questionsing can/should be questioned first.

What I'm really trilled about, is what you've mentioned in your previous reply, saying that 125 years of good stuff and 125 years of bad stuff. Please provide a reference to a vers in Qur'an and/or Hazir Imam's Firman.

You base all your believe/ideas on the link that you posted, "avatar" I don't even know what it is. I do agree that ginans are pretty powerful and has very deeper meaning than what we hear and understand. And I really enjoy listening to Ginans/Qasidas all the time. But what you are claiming about this 125 years, president of china and even the name of next imam. These stuff doesn't make sense to anyone.

Don't ever try to tell any Ismaili what/if they believe to Imam. This is an insult and not the right question to be aksing.

Hazir Imam has always encourages us to seek knowledge. If you open your eyes and try do some research about this matter or any other matter, then I don't think there's anything wrong. But, if you close yours eyes and do nothing and just listen to ginan, then I don't think you are following Imam's Firman properly. Hey, don't get me wrong here. I do listen to Qasida/Ginan all the time and I'm really enjoying it, but I am also open to research and seeking knowledge, which brings questions/discussions along the way.

In short, I simply asked your openion, and you gave it. that's it. No need to question anyone's believe/fait.

you need to read moman chetamni and Ashaji.
At the same time take a glance at the book of revealations in the new testament.

Shams

haroon_adel · Post by **haroon_adel** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:34 pm

ShamsB wrote: you need to read moman chetamni and Ashaji.
At the same time take a glance at the book of revealations in the new testament.
Shams

Thank you ShamsB for the suggestion.

Do you mean Book of Revelation? I haven't read this book, but I think, if I don't mistake it's about Jesus Christ and apocalyps, which are basically Christians' belief.

And about the other two items that you mentioned, can you provide a link for them?

My whole point was that, this 2012 thing is all promoted by Christian society, which tries to dectate that what's in the bible about the apocalypse is true, which I totally dis-agree with. I've looked at all the scientific theories and other cultur's prophecies, but I most of their arguments and reasonings are biast and has flaws.

ShamsB · Post by **ShamsB** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:03 am

haroon_adel wrote:
ShamsB wrote: you need to read moman chetamni and Ashaji.
At the same time take a glance at the book of revealations in the new testament.
Shams
Thank you ShamsB for the suggestion.

Do you mean Book of Revelation? I haven't read this book, but I think, if I don't mistake it's about Jesus Christ and apocalyps, which are basically Christians' belief.

And about the other two items that you mentioned, can you provide a link for them?

My whole point was that, this 2012 thing is all promoted by Christian society, which tries to dectate that what's in the bible about the apocalypse is true, which I totally dis-agree with. I've looked at all the scientific theories and other cultur's prophecies, but I most of their arguments and reasonings are biast and has flaws.

you'll find that revelations is very interesting..just because it's christian doesn't mean it doesn't merit an examination.
after all Christ was Nabi Issa for us.

Anant Akhado - Ashaji - it's on Ismaili.net
moman chetamni is also on ismaili.net..though don't know where.

shams

naushad25 · Post by **naushad25** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 7:30 am

i would still recoomend that waz from Abu Aly "Dua Avataar". its a beautiful waz and with refeences given by him acc to our ginans. We do enjoy ginans, but we have to understand it. we are following these bcz we enjoy, we need to understand these things and what ever written in ginans is acc to quran.

haroon_adel · Post by **haroon_adel** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:39 am

ShamsB wrote: you'll find that revelations is very interesting..just because it's christian doesn't mean it doesn't merit an examination.
after all Christ was Nabi Issa for us.

Anant Akhado - Ashaji - it's on Ismaili.net
moman chetamni is also on ismaili.net..though don't know where.

shams

Thank you Shams for this:

I totally agree and its a true statement that Christ is indeed our Issa-e-Nabi, and I do have an immense respect to all of our profets, including Issa-e-Nabi (Christ). Don't get me wrong what I mentioned in my previous post. If I have an opportunity, I will go thru this book. However, the other two (2) ginans that you suggested, if they aren't in english, then I won't be able to benifit from it, unless I get a hold of its translation, for know only Farsi/English, and not Urdo, Gujurati, etc.

@naushad25:
If there are reference from Qur'aan, then why can't you directly quot or make a reference? Like I said, if those Wahz aren't in English/Farsi, or translated in English, then I can't benifit from it.

If you enjoy something, that means you understand at least abit, otherwise, you can't enjoy it; that's true at least for me. I don't know about you and how do you enjoy a ginan without having a clue what it's talking about. Besides, it's important that you know that we don't know anything. If we know this much, I guess, we know alot. But, if you think that you know everything and all the things, then here's that you make your mistake and as a matter of fact you don't know anything. It's just my way of thinking.

naushad25 · Post by **naushad25** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:17 am

i am not here to fight nor i m telling that i know everything. i am saying that we have to understand this.. and by writing WE that means i lack it as well. We know nothing not even 1% what our imams and pirs have said and thats true. but these waz are ipt for us to understand what quran says. and i think i have a good enough belief that its enough for me to understand ginans and if am unable to do it, then waz are very useful in this regard. Dont criticize me bro. I am not that knowladgeable but i am just sharing the experience that i have reading and listening those things. i think ppl are taking it personal here. i am talking general. Second, yes u can enjoy ginan without understanding it, ppl like ginan bcz of music and most of ppl in our jamat, if u have noticed them, sing ginans loudly bcz they like the music. Abu Aly himself has said on many occasions that we need to understand these thing. He has especially mentioned Canada that canadian ppl should learn bcz in the coming time they have to work for imam more than anyone else. I know u cannot understand hindi but thats why i m interpretating some bits of that waz. and thats it. try to take it what ppl are giving rather than critisizing them. Its not a personal talk. wee are discussing for our own knowledge. I always refer Abu Aly, bcz i know that he was the most knowledgeable ismaili who has seen that light of noor as indicated by him as well on many occasions. He has given 30-40 years of his life to understand ginans. so plz take what me or others are giving or correct us.. thats good thing actually. but discussion shouldn't ed up at fight.

naushad25 · Post by **naushad25** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:24 am

another thing, dont take these posts individually, compile it and see what can u do to understand abt the topic. if i ma saying u that there are ginans and im giving u refence of waz and on the other hand shams is giving u refernces of ginans then compile it for your own sake and research it. make every possible effort to use these posts if u r really want to get something out of it. Just for fun, i have seen many guys in pakistan, they love english music but dont know whats in the song and what is that song trying to give us. There are many songs which have message but ppl just go for music. same is the case with ginans sometimes. see the ginans Til Bhara tulara, its very tough to say and undertand but the melody is beautiful. Peace

haroon_adel · Post by **haroon_adel** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:15 pm

naushad25 wrote:i am not here to fight nor i m telling that i know everything. i am saying that we have to understand this.. and by writing WE that means i lack it as well. We know nothing not even 1% what our imams and pirs have said and thats true. but these waz are ipt for us to understand what quran says. and i think i have a good enough belief that its enough for me to understand ginans and if am unable to do it, then waz are very useful in this regard. Dont criticize me bro. I am not that knowladgeable but i am just sharing the experience that i have reading and listening those things. i think ppl are taking it personal here. i am talking general. Second, yes u can enjoy ginan without understanding it, ppl like ginan bcz of music and most of ppl in our jamat, if u have noticed them, sing ginans loudly bcz they like the music. Abu Aly himself has said on many occasions that we need to understand these thing. He has especially mentioned Canada that canadian ppl should learn bcz in the coming time they have to work for imam more than anyone else. I know u cannot understand hindi but thats why i m interpretating some bits of that waz. and thats it. try to take it what ppl are giving rather than critisizing them. Its not a personal talk. wee are discussing for our own knowledge. I always refer Abu Aly, bcz i know that he was the most knowledgeable ismaili who has seen that light of noor as indicated by him as well on many occasions. He has given 30-40 years of his life to understand ginans. so plz take what me or others are giving or correct us.. thats good thing actually. but discussion shouldn't ed up at fight.

naushad25 wrote:another thing, dont take these posts individually, compile it and see what can u do to understand abt the topic. if i ma saying u that there are ginans and im giving u refence of waz and on the other hand shams is giving u refernces of ginans then compile it for your own sake and research it. make every possible effort to use these posts if u r really want to get something out of it. Just for fun, i have seen many guys in pakistan, they love english music but dont know whats in the song and what is that song trying to give us. There are many songs which have message but ppl just go for music. same is the case with ginans sometimes. see the ginans Til Bhara tulara, its very tough to say and undertand but the melody is beautiful. Peace

No one's here to fight. I don't understand why you are taking it this way. I appreciate the references that you and Shams brother gave, and as I stated, if I get the first opportunity, I will go through it. Besides, I also stated that since I can't understand Irdu, Gujurati and etc, will you be able to reference a verse, quot in Qur'aan? If yes, then I am all ears and pleased to see it.

naushad25 wrote:i think i have a good enough belief that its enough for me to understand ginans

Good for you. Do you think that believe is enough to understand ginan? I've always thaught that you need to have the knowledge and understanding to know the real, deeper meaning of ginan or Qur'aan. Again, everyone is different.

naushad25 wrote:i think ppl are taking it personal here

I don't think anyone's taking it personal. I think you are taking it personal. And these stuff that you are talking about, is off the topic of the original post.

naushad25 wrote:I know u cannot understand hindi but thats why i m interpretating some bits of that waz. and thats it.

Then go ahead! Iam listening.

naushad25 wrote:i know that he was the most knowledgeable ismaili

I don't say anything about this. Our understanding/belief and/or knowledge is limited to what we know. And it's true for everyone.

naushad25 wrote:...compile it for your own sake ...

On a funny note: Is that a programming language that needs to be compiled...lol When should I run it then?

And if you have had any hard-feeling, it wasn't the intention.
All I'm asking from you is to proove it that there's a reference in either Qur'aan or any Firmans of Hazir Imam that there will 125 years of bad stuff and 125 years of good stuff and the things you said about president of china and especially the name of future Imam. And I will take my hat off for you. That's all I'm asking.

naushad25 · Post by **naushad25** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:28 pm

ther would be no future predictions by imam himself as it creates panic among ppl but our ginans do have.  i am listening the waz and will get back to u soon. u said Do you think that believe is enough to understand ginan?.. i think u didnt get my point. i am saying if u belief something then understanding is easy bcz then no one is going to dis balance u on ur faith..so YES belief is the most impt thing if u want to understand something. It is realted to ur topic as u have started a very very funny topic on 2012 based on just a silly movie and some predictions. I will try to interpretate our ginans on this all.. it may not be full of knowledge abt whne the world would end but it would certainly clear our knowledge abt when ismailism started and how this world was created. its very very knowledgeable and beautiful. so wait for it. but dont make it funny.. as compile has many meanings. and that is for sure that there is some indications abt China being super power and will fight with our imam of that time. i will tell u soon.

haroon_adel · Post by **haroon_adel** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:05 pm

naushad25 wrote:then no one is going to dis balance u on ur faith

What do you mean by this? "dis balance"

Let me give you an analogy and you probably understand what I was trying to say: Say you believe in compter and you belive that it can solve any mathematical equation and you can do lots of cool stuff with it. But, you don't know anything about it. So, if I asked you to wirte a program, then tell me how your belief would work? unless you take some training on how to write a program. Do you see what I am trying to say.

Needless to say, belief is one of the most important thing anyone can have. But, all Im saying is that it doesn't mean that you know everything. It helps you, but that doens't mean that you know it all.

naushad25 wrote:It is realted to ur topic as u have started a very very funny topic on 2012 based on just a silly movie and some predictions.

I don't think what you say is related at all to the topic. It might be funny topic to you but it's still a topic and you tried to answer it and make an argument. I didn't based anything on the movie (by the way its a very good entertaining movie, I suggest you should watch it), or any prediction. I suggest you re-read my original post, and all my replies to see what's my view point about all this.

naushad25 · Post by **naushad25** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:11 pm

i dont want to say anything as ur not getting the point here. so have fun with ur topic. bz 2012 is funny. its better to discuss abt what our tradition says abt the end of this world and what we have to do to prepare for it

haroon_adel · Post by **haroon_adel** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:19 pm

naushad25 wrote:i dont want to say anything as ur not getting the point here. so have fun with ur topic. bz 2012 is funny. its better to discuss abt what our tradition says abt the end of this world and what we have to do to prepare for it

You don't want to say anything, or you don't have anything meaningful to say. The funny thing is that you are talking very scattered and don't make any sense. You know what you should do first. Go and learn proper english, this way you'll understand others better and can explain yourself better as well.

As a matter of fact, you are the one who doesn't get the point. You are right, you shouldn't have said anything in the first place.

haroon_adel · Post by **haroon_adel** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:33 pm

Oh another thing a bout belief. You are so proud that you have more belief than others (or at least me). Then answer my question. How much belief do you have? How can you measure it, that you are implying that you have more belief? Do you measure it in Kilograms?

This is totally subjective. Anyone can argue that they have more/stronger belief than you (or anyone). The fact is, it's totally personal and to each individual. What makes sense to you doesn't necessarily make sense to others.

naushad25 · Post by **naushad25** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:55 pm

PEACE.

and don't argue on not so relevant matters. I have never said i have more belief..Oh god help this man. Please, cool down. As a ismaili brother, we need to understand each other. if we criticize on our believes then what will others say. Well, whatever u think, be happy in ur own way. And dont be proud if u know better english language is just a means to comunicate not the thing to fight on.

have a safe life.

naushad25 · Post by **naushad25** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:57 pm

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