Imams killed by enemies

[st0necol]

Hmm..Imam knows everything...our heart beats everything..

I know that they have two roles 'Zaheri' and 'Batuni'.

In Batun, he's the Mazhar of GOD. But this question always perplexed me that Hazrat Ali was poisoned when he was reciting prayers, He would have knew that he was going to be killed?

Hazrat Imam Hussain knew he would be cheated by some of his friends or followers and be killed.

And other Imams who were killed. I don't know much history.

But could they not with their spiritual power take advantage and prepare to fight against the enemies?

Or were their life-time was written in that fashion? Because Imam's body is also a body but many things which Imam does are out of the normal human range.

Like I heard Abu Aly's waiz and he said that Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) didn't use to sleep much at night, standing and praying every night, then resting a couple of hours and then going to Masjid again. He said not we can do it thats why he also said once that follow what I say, don't do what I do.

[kmaherali]

And other Imams who were killed. I don't know much history.

But could they not with their spiritual power take advantage and prepare to fight against the enemies?

Or were their life-time was written in that fashion? Because Imam's body is also a body but many things which Imam does are out of the normal human range.

Imams do have extra-ordinary capacity and in fact because of the Light, they endure the most hardships amongst mankind. Historically more the 10 Imams have been murdered and Jesus was crucified.

By virtue of the Light they can withstand anything and are not affected by any trials and tribulations. If any other human were to assume the responsibility of Imamat, he would collapse in a day!

Imams are not the 'bearers of Noor' for the whole mankind and therefore to the rest of the world, they will appear as an ordinary fallible human beings going through the trials and tribulations like any other humanbeing.

But Imams also have the capacity of averting danger if they desire that as per the following quote in MSMS's The Memoirs.

"The German Secret Service did not believe that I was really ill. They thought, however, that their country's cause would be well served were I put out of the way for good. They arranged to have a bomb thrown at me; and to make the operation certain of success they also arranged, with typical German thoroughness, to have my breakfast coffee poisoned. The bomb did not go off; I did not drink the coffee."(The Memoirs)

In short Imams are in total control. They decide when and how to die, when to get sick and when to recover. And we should not follow what they do but follow what they tell us to do. Their actions can be incomprehensible at times....

[st0necol]

Imams are not the 'bearers of Noor' for the whole mankind

Could you please elaborate more on this line?

And There are in history who assumed Imamat illegally and there when the splits occurred. So they didn't fall in a day? But yeah their line ended soon.

And Quran says Jesus was not crucified so we would follow that

[st0necol]

My confusion mostly cleared. But one thing, if it's in the control of the Imam when to die and how to die, would the enemy who killed the Imams be held accountable for his actions then? It could be possible that Imam chose him.

I was also just thinking before your reply, that it's only possible when Imam wishes then only he can be killed otherwise no one can even touch him without his permission. The same you wrote so

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[kmaherali]

Imams are not the 'bearers of Noor' for the whole mankind

Could you please elaborate more on this line?

What I meant was that although is is the 'bearer of the Noor', the majority of the people do not recognise him as such and hence he cannot appear perfect and infallible in all circumstances. Hence in his worldly activities he will behave like anyone of us going throuigh the same trials and tribulations like any of us. Some will be killed as well.

And Quran says Jesus was not crucified so we would follow that

There has been a discussion on this subject under:

Current Issues --> Christianity

You may want to go there and if you have additional questions, post them there..

[kmaherali]

would the enemy who killed the Imams be held accountable for his actions then? It could be possible that Imam chose him.

Murder is murder and whoever murders the Imam is accoubtable. However in the case of the Imam, he is so magnaminous that he would forgive the person. I understand Hazarat Ali forgave his murderer.

[st0necol]

Hmmm

Murder is murder I accept but if Imam chose that person, was there a way out with his free-will?

I know I am asking such technical questions and in the end I feel only Imam knows why he chose him.

One incident I heard in waiz, was that when Imam Sultan Mohammad Shah was only 9-10 or maybe 11yrs old, he was sitting in his chair and moving his feets and there was a small wooden piece b/w his first and second finger (I've assumed the finger position) and he was moving his feet wid it...and reading newspaper kept infront of his face. Abu Aly said his fellow missionary or some khidmatgar went to meet Imam and just stood there at the entrance because imam was busy reading so the question came into his mind that why Imam is doing that?

Imam immediately replied, ........ <- i forgot the name, what Imam does you cannot ever understand why he's doing it.

Kmeherali,

Thank you brother for clearing out my main confusion.

I've a couple of unanswered posts in the other topic "Is Quran Complete?" on page no. 4

If you have the answers please reply there too.

Thank you

[ibudhani]

Brings us back to the root question. If Allah controls the destiny and actions of all beings including man, then how can a person be held accountable for any sins he may commit???

[zubair_mahamood]

would the enemy who killed the Imams be held accountable for his actions then? It could be possible that Imam chose him.

Murder is murder and whoever murders the Imam is accoubtable. However in the case of the Imam, he is so magnaminous that he would forgive the person. I understand Hazarat Ali forgave his murderer.

Karim I agree with you at the same I want to remind you of two aspects Din and Duniya. From Duniya’s point of you Muder is Muder the person responsible is accountable not matter whatever may be the case but from Din point of view I think he is not accountable. Imam is always present! Its Imam’s choice how to changes his external form. From this point I don’t think anyone who muders Imam or plans can be accountable as its Imam’s choice when to die or how to change his external form.

I am just thinking of the people who had mudered Imam for example take the murderer of Imam Ali they was curtain on his eyes he didn’t even knew what his sword had done. If he had knew after the murder he couldn’t even see his face in mirror and would ask Allah why he has not shown him truth or even ask why did Allah chose him for this job or even ask Mowla Ali why didn’t he stop him or XYZ.

Your question st0necol answers many questions. We are human, we are accountable and are responsible for both Din and Duniya simliary when making decision we need to balance them rest is Allah’s will wheather he forgives or punishes, now you can decide from which point you want to see the murderer.

Zubair Mahmood

[st0necol]

Brings us back to the root question. If Allah controls the destiny and actions of all beings including man, then how can a person be held accountable for any sins he may commit???

In Islam the Faithful believe in Divine justice and are convinced that the solution of the great problem of predestination and free will is to be found in the compromise that God knows what man is going to do, but that man is free to do it or not.

Source : http://www.ismaili.net/Source/0016b.html

Abu Aly in his waiz told that few things are on destiny and few actions are depended upon us. For instance say, good deeds and bad deeds choices are left on us.

Or one may say

our birth and death are fixed but other things which are on destiny are flexible. It depends on our karma too then. maybe?

But when the Lord of the Lords gave his definition on divine justice. the problem is solved. It's the best definition in the whole world.

[st0necol]

@Zubair_mehmood

Ali secrets..only Ali knows

He may pardon a gunnah gaar in place of his just one repentance and he may punish a good deed person just because he hurt some momin just once in his life.

Thats why it's also said that never hurt anyone because you never know how close that person is to the Lord. Only Ali is the knower of the level of souls. On which levels each persons soul is.