Ya Ali Madad,
One of my friends has married an Ishnashari Muslim girl. Now the couple is expecting a baby. My friend wants to know which religion should the child follow, Ismailism or Ishnasharism. As intercaste marriages are not allowed according to Quran, no answers will be there. Still if some reference from Quran will pointed to, will be a great help. General guidance will also be very appreciated.
Thank you.
Religion of a child out of intercaste marriage
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dhananiparvez
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zubair_mahamood
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Re: Religion of a child out of intercaste marriage
YAM
As for Couple’s problem I can’t suggest anything at this point as I don’t know what intention was there when they married. Generally in love marriages this situation arise which leads to marriages break up as both want there kid to follow their Faith and believe, its very common problem but solution depends on individuals believes and acceptance. Is u r friend or his wife prepared to accept His wife/husband and child as Ishnasharism / Ismaili or do they believe that they can live there life comfortable with each other after acceptance.
Without knowing anything about u r friend personally I can’t suggest anything it would be dangerous as walking in darkness. In General if I were in u r friend’s shoe I would invite my wife to accept Ismailies and bought up my child as Ismaili, if she refuses to accept my faith and agrees that my child can follow Ismailies I will bought up my child as Ismaili (inshallah) by taking consideration of my wife scarifie and compromise.
Don’t make decision on my words; I just said if I were in his shoes. We can discuss further on the issue. Here are some verses of Quran which explains marriage prohibition you can discuss with local muquies for further detail explanation of this verses
004.023 Prohibited to you (For marriage) are:- Your mothers, daughters, sisters; father's sisters, Mother's sisters; brother's daughters, sister's daughters; foster-mothers (Who gave you suck), foster-sisters; your wives' mothers; your step-daughters under your guardianship, born of your wives to whom ye have gone in,- no prohibition if ye have not gone in;- (Those who have been) wives of your sons proceeding from your loins; and two sisters in wedlock at one and the same time, except for what is past; for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful;-
004.024 Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess: Thus hath God ordained (Prohibitions) against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property,- desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and God is All-knowing, All-wise.
SJD
Zubair
I don’t think Quran have ever prohibited inter caste marriages or inter religion marriages but it has prohibited marriages with (04.23). According to Sunni one can marry people of Other Books but on one condition that bride or groom must accept Islam otherwise the Marriage is considered Haram. For us MHI is a clear example for that our religion doesn’t prohibit inter case or inter religion marriages, its just society which don’t accepts.dhananiparvez wrote:Ya Ali Madad,
One of my friends has married an Ishnashari Muslim girl. Now the couple is expecting a baby. My friend wants to know which religion should the child follow, Ismailism or Ishnasharism. As intercaste marriages are not allowed according to Quran, no answers will be there. Still if some reference from Quran will pointed to, will be a great help. General guidance will also be very appreciated.
Thank you.
As for Couple’s problem I can’t suggest anything at this point as I don’t know what intention was there when they married. Generally in love marriages this situation arise which leads to marriages break up as both want there kid to follow their Faith and believe, its very common problem but solution depends on individuals believes and acceptance. Is u r friend or his wife prepared to accept His wife/husband and child as Ishnasharism / Ismaili or do they believe that they can live there life comfortable with each other after acceptance.
Without knowing anything about u r friend personally I can’t suggest anything it would be dangerous as walking in darkness. In General if I were in u r friend’s shoe I would invite my wife to accept Ismailies and bought up my child as Ismaili, if she refuses to accept my faith and agrees that my child can follow Ismailies I will bought up my child as Ismaili (inshallah) by taking consideration of my wife scarifie and compromise.
Don’t make decision on my words; I just said if I were in his shoes. We can discuss further on the issue. Here are some verses of Quran which explains marriage prohibition you can discuss with local muquies for further detail explanation of this verses
004.023 Prohibited to you (For marriage) are:- Your mothers, daughters, sisters; father's sisters, Mother's sisters; brother's daughters, sister's daughters; foster-mothers (Who gave you suck), foster-sisters; your wives' mothers; your step-daughters under your guardianship, born of your wives to whom ye have gone in,- no prohibition if ye have not gone in;- (Those who have been) wives of your sons proceeding from your loins; and two sisters in wedlock at one and the same time, except for what is past; for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful;-
004.024 Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess: Thus hath God ordained (Prohibitions) against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property,- desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and God is All-knowing, All-wise.
SJD
Zubair
Re: Religion of a child out of intercaste marriage
dear Zubair,
Couple of questions for you:
#1)
Zubair wrote:
"whom your right hands possess"
#2)
Zubair wrote:
thank you.
Couple of questions for you:
#1)
Zubair wrote:
Could you explain the significance for the readers, the meaning of:
004.024 Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess....
"whom your right hands possess"
#2)
Zubair wrote:
What happens to that sunni woman opting to marry an ahle-kitabi (jew or christian) without family approval and/or his conversion?According to Sunni one can marry people of Other Books but on one condition that bride or groom must accept Islam otherwise the Marriage is considered Haram.
thank you.
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zubair_mahamood
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Re: Religion of a child out of intercaste marriage
Ya Ali Madaadlogical wrote:dear Zubair,
Couple of questions for you:
#1)
Zubair wrote:
Could you explain the significance for the readers, the meaning of:
004.024 Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess....
"whom your right hands possess"
#2)
Zubair wrote:What happens to that sunni woman opting to marry an ahle-kitabi (jew or christian) without family approval and/or his conversion?According to Sunni one can marry people of Other Books but on one condition that bride or groom must accept Islam otherwise the Marriage is considered Haram.
thank you.
1 Q
Could you explain the significance for the readers, the meaning of:
"whom your right hands possess"
1) I wrote these two verses and clearly mentioned to approach Al Waaz for further explanations.
2) If you ask my opinion above any Quran verses, I would say Quran is Zahir and Batine. They are three levels when you want to understand or implement its verses (if I am wrong in saying this plz correct me reader)
first at individual level that’s between Allah and a Banda note hear a banda can be from Adams period or from MHI’s / Present period. Second is at communal level this level can be sectors in religion, Individual groups in a sector, and Individual beliefs in an Individual group. And Third level is for General, everyone comes in it.
At individual level if I came across any verse then I close my eyes and ask Allah help and explanation me how to implement this verse! Well He reply me as he reply for every once call.
At second level I don’t know what Ismaili had to say about this verse and implementation of it, if you know please share it with me. I don’t want to post Sunni perception of this Verse.
In general it means one can’t marry a woman who is not yet divorce.
I would say if you really want to know true meaning plz ask Al Waaz or MHI. I am just a slave; I try to copy my Master. If Moon gives light to earth during night it can never be as perfect as Sun light.
2 Q
What happens to that sunni woman opting to marry an ahle-kitabi (jew or christian) without family approval and/or his conversion?
I didn’t understand clearly what you want to ask. If you mean to say what happens if Sunni girl marries a Non Sunni and get converted? If u mean to say this you can also put the question like this. What happens if Ismaili girl marries a Non Ismaili and get converted?
Brother no Group would like there girls to marry out of cast. Can you reply what happens if Ismaili girl marries a Non Ismaili and get converted / remain Ismaili?
Thanks, SJD
Zuabir
Re: Religion of a child out of intercaste marriage
Dear Zubair.
I asked you the two questions to understand the sunni sharia or interpretations & significance.
Could you pls answer the questions that was posted on 23 Aug 2006 11:04 am ?
I asked you the two questions to understand the sunni sharia or interpretations & significance.
Could you pls answer the questions that was posted on 23 Aug 2006 11:04 am ?
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zubair_mahamood
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Re: Religion of a child out of intercaste marriage
Logical i can answer your question as well as many more point that shows finger on Sunni tradition and pratices but people will not understand as we all have different backgrounds, if i know someone personaly i normaly get into discussion as i dont want to get into arguments.logical wrote:Dear Zubair.
I asked you the two questions to understand the sunni sharia or interpretations & significance.
Could you pls answer the questions that was posted on 23 Aug 2006 11:04 am ?
To understand Shariath one has to stop undersatnding Imammat which is imposible, i understand shariah and Imamat as i pratice both which is difficult. i am still trying to build a Plathform where both can be understood. As per me i have answere your questions.
question:
if i have a child with a hindu, can the kid receive ismaili bayat and the hindu version? let the child get an understanding of both faiths and then make a decision (or keep both...may as well cover all bases...) as to which religion he/she wishes to follow?
will the kid get kicked out of j/k?
thanks.
if i have a child with a hindu, can the kid receive ismaili bayat and the hindu version? let the child get an understanding of both faiths and then make a decision (or keep both...may as well cover all bases...) as to which religion he/she wishes to follow?
will the kid get kicked out of j/k?
thanks.
Zubair said
"According to Sunni one can marry people of Other Books but on one condition that bride or groom must accept Islam otherwise the Marriage is considered Haram"
i dont think thats correct statement. According to what i know of Quran, marriage is allowed to ahl-kitaab(people with book) i.e jews or christians as long as they do not Shirk. that means good christian women with believe in Christ as Prophet of God and not the Son of God and holy ghost as an angel of God instead of a partner is worthy of marriage.
logical
"What happens to that sunni woman opting to marry an ahle-kitabi (jew or christian) without family approval and/or his conversion? "
Marriage of Muslim women to the Ahle-Kitaab is permitted by Islam on the same conditions as above, but should be discouraged as muslim women staying in Ahle-Kitaab house will have to face mens family that does not necessarily respect Our Prophet Muhaamad. While we muslim respect their prophets and belive in there innocense Case might not be the same with them.
logival asked"
Could you explain the significance for the readers, the meaning of:
"whom your right hands possess"
According to my knowledge these were the women taken as slave from the wars at the time of Prophet. Some of them were married but there husband(Kuffar) had either abandoned them or they couldnt go back to them. Marriage with such (Already married) women were allowed at the time if all other conditions were meat.
"According to Sunni one can marry people of Other Books but on one condition that bride or groom must accept Islam otherwise the Marriage is considered Haram"
i dont think thats correct statement. According to what i know of Quran, marriage is allowed to ahl-kitaab(people with book) i.e jews or christians as long as they do not Shirk. that means good christian women with believe in Christ as Prophet of God and not the Son of God and holy ghost as an angel of God instead of a partner is worthy of marriage.
logical
"What happens to that sunni woman opting to marry an ahle-kitabi (jew or christian) without family approval and/or his conversion? "
Marriage of Muslim women to the Ahle-Kitaab is permitted by Islam on the same conditions as above, but should be discouraged as muslim women staying in Ahle-Kitaab house will have to face mens family that does not necessarily respect Our Prophet Muhaamad. While we muslim respect their prophets and belive in there innocense Case might not be the same with them.
logival asked"
Could you explain the significance for the readers, the meaning of:
"whom your right hands possess"
According to my knowledge these were the women taken as slave from the wars at the time of Prophet. Some of them were married but there husband(Kuffar) had either abandoned them or they couldnt go back to them. Marriage with such (Already married) women were allowed at the time if all other conditions were meat.
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zubair_mahamood
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YA Ali Madad Azamour,azamour wrote:Zubair said
"According to Sunni one can marry people of Other Books but on one condition that bride or groom must accept Islam otherwise the Marriage is considered Haram"
i dont think thats correct statement. According to what i know of Quran, marriage is allowed to ahl-kitaab(people with book) i.e jews or christians as long as they do not Shirk. that means good christian women with believe in Christ as Prophet of God and not the Son of God and holy ghost as an angel of God instead of a partner is worthy of marriage.
I think you have to check conditions of Nikah with a local Khazi (person who perform marriages). I am still with my statement. I attended n number of marriages where precondition of marriage had been clearly explained, if its only about shik then one can marry also Hindu as some Hindu I meet have define God as Prakash Meaning Holy Noor….. If one opt for civil marriage then he doesn’t have to fulfil shriyat or Prophetic words but for a religious marriage one has to bind with traditions……… did you see any Khazi performing marriage between a Sunni and a Jew or Christian without their acceptance of Islam, I haven’t come across any…… recent my roommate got married and his wife has accepted Sunni faith.
I agree to an extent with other statements of your.
Shah Je Dedaar
zubair
"Wed not idolatresses till they believe; for lo! a believing bondwoman is better than an idolatress though she please you; and give not your daughters in marriage to idolaters till they believe, for lo! a believing slave is better than an idolater though he please you. These invite unto the Fire, and Allah inviteth unto the Garden, and unto forgiveness by His grace, and expoundeth His revelations to mankind that haply they may remember."(Quran 2:221)
This day are (all) good things made lawful for you. The food of those who have received the Scripture is lawful for you, and your food is lawful for them. And so are the virtuous women of the believers and the virtuous women of those who received the Scripture before you (lawful for you) when ye give them their marriage portions and live with them in honour, not in fornication, nor taking them as secret concubines. Whoso denieth the faith, his work is vain and he will be among the losers in the Hereafter.(Quran 5:5)
"O ye who believe! When believing women come unto you as fugitives, examine them. Allah is Best Aware of their faith. Then, if ye know them for true believers, send them not back unto the disbelievers. They are not lawful for them (the disbelievers), nor are they (the disbelievers) lawful for them. And give them (the disbelievers) that which they have spent (upon them). And it is no sin for you to marry such women when ye have given them their dues. And hold not to the ties of disbelieving women; and ask for (the return of) that which ye have spent; and let them (the disbelievers) ask for that which they have spent. That is the judgment of Allah. He judgeth between you. Allah is Knower, Wise."(Quran 60:10)
so according to 2:221 man can not marry idolaters while according to 5:5 man can marry women from religion with scriptures. Thus what it means is Muslim man can marry Non Idolaterous women from the reilgions with scriptures.
I was worng when i said that muslim women can marry non muslim man. rules are little more tougher when it comes to women or in other words there is extra bit of protection for women with regards to the marriage law.
This day are (all) good things made lawful for you. The food of those who have received the Scripture is lawful for you, and your food is lawful for them. And so are the virtuous women of the believers and the virtuous women of those who received the Scripture before you (lawful for you) when ye give them their marriage portions and live with them in honour, not in fornication, nor taking them as secret concubines. Whoso denieth the faith, his work is vain and he will be among the losers in the Hereafter.(Quran 5:5)
"O ye who believe! When believing women come unto you as fugitives, examine them. Allah is Best Aware of their faith. Then, if ye know them for true believers, send them not back unto the disbelievers. They are not lawful for them (the disbelievers), nor are they (the disbelievers) lawful for them. And give them (the disbelievers) that which they have spent (upon them). And it is no sin for you to marry such women when ye have given them their dues. And hold not to the ties of disbelieving women; and ask for (the return of) that which ye have spent; and let them (the disbelievers) ask for that which they have spent. That is the judgment of Allah. He judgeth between you. Allah is Knower, Wise."(Quran 60:10)
so according to 2:221 man can not marry idolaters while according to 5:5 man can marry women from religion with scriptures. Thus what it means is Muslim man can marry Non Idolaterous women from the reilgions with scriptures.
I was worng when i said that muslim women can marry non muslim man. rules are little more tougher when it comes to women or in other words there is extra bit of protection for women with regards to the marriage law.