Daiet

[yaali101]

YAM,

I was reading a couple of ginans and came across a common figure – the Daiet. From what I have gathered, the Daiet is the Imams nemesis in the tenth avatar. At the same time, the allegorical nature of the ginans seems to suggest that the Daiet is used to describe our “lower self”. My question is that will there actually be a Daiet in the physical world? Or is the Diaet just used to describe our lower self? Also, in the short summary of “Lakh Chorasi” by Abu Aly, it states that there are 433,000 years left till the end of the world. From what I recollect there will be a great war between the Imam and the Daiet and then for some 300,000 years there will be peace. If this is taken literally, is this war coming up soon? I heard a wa’az by Abu Aly where he said the time, date, and place of the war is listed in a ginan. Does anyone have this information? If you have read this ginan could you post this information and not just refer to the ginan. Thank you and YAM.

[kmaherali]

The concept of Daet Kalingo has been discussed in this forum under:

Doctrines --> Daet Kalingo and Dajjal.

You may want to go there.

[yaali101]

The concept of Daet Kalingo has been discussed in this forum under:

Doctrines --> Daet Kalingo and Dajjal.

You may want to go there.

Kmaherali,

I have read that thread and was looking to see if anyone had some insight on the literal meanings of the ginans referring to the Diet.

[yaali101]

There must be someone who has read the ginan Al Wa'az Abu Aly was referring to. He mentioned that he knows the date and place where the war would start, but said he cannot tell us this. Has anyone done any research regarding this matter? I understand some folks on this board, like kmaherali, believe that the ginans are just allegorical and are not to be take literally, but can it not be true that the Pirs were maybe killing two birds with one stone - the were pointing out the Daiet is the lower self but that there will also be a Daiet in real life. Please shed some insight on this topic, as I am eager to know more.

[ShamsB]

There must be someone who has read the ginan Al Wa'az Abu Aly was referring to. He mentioned that he knows the date and place where the war would start, but said he cannot tell us this. Has anyone done any research regarding this matter? I understand some folks on this board, like kmaherali, believe that the ginans are just allegorical and are not to be take literally, but can it not be true that the Pirs were maybe killing two birds with one stone - the were pointing out the Daiet is the lower self but that there will also be a Daiet in real life. Please shed some insight on this topic, as I am eager to know more.

yes..
and there will be a real daiynt
Daiynt Kalingo
Ginans: Moman Chetamni, Paar Fatine and Farate Neja.

Shams

[unnalhaq]

There must be someone who has read the ginan Al Wa'az Abu Aly was referring to. He mentioned that he knows the date and place where the war would start, but said he cannot tell us this. Has anyone done any research regarding this matter? I understand some folks on this board, like kmaherali, believe that the ginans are just allegorical and are not to be take literally, but can it not be true that the Pirs were maybe killing two birds with one stone - the were pointing out the Daiet is the lower self but that there will also be a Daiet in real life. Please shed some insight on this topic, as I am eager to know more.

At first I did not understand what was that you were asking but from the above post I understand so here is something to think about (this is [from] Persian take [view]):
'It supposed to start on Nav-roze around 12:00 (noon).'
This is a very old saying, before folks know what time zones were and leap year was calculated but they know the season and sun shadow. Now, here is the million $ question: Do you know when the 2ns Persian Gulf War stared and when the first shot was fired?
That may be the start which could last or envelope into something even bigger and last for another 100 years or so well in the 51st Imam’s time. Something to think about, huh!!
By the way, According to AbuAly, in 1979, 129 years out for it to be over and the Imam of the time to claim his Kingdom.

[yaali101]

There must be someone who has read the ginan Al Wa'az Abu Aly was referring to. He mentioned that he knows the date and place where the war would start, but said he cannot tell us this. Has anyone done any research regarding this matter? I understand some folks on this board, like kmaherali, believe that the ginans are just allegorical and are not to be take literally, but can it not be true that the Pirs were maybe killing two birds with one stone - the were pointing out the Daiet is the lower self but that there will also be a Daiet in real life. Please shed some insight on this topic, as I am eager to know more.

At first I did not understand what was that you were asking but from the above post I understand so here is something to think about (this is [from] Persian take [view]):
'It supposed to start on Nav-roze around 12:00 (noon).'
This is a very old saying, before folks know what time zones were and leap year was calculated but they know the season and sun shadow. Now, here is the million $ question: Do you know when the 2ns Persian Gulf War stared and when the first shot was fired?
That may be the start which could last or envelope into something even bigger and last for another 100 years or so well in the 51st Imam’s time. Something to think about, huh!!
By the way, According to AbuAly, in 1979, 129 years out for it to be over and the Imam of the time to claim his Kingdom.

Wow, so the war has already begun. I am amazed at the accuracy of the prediction - the war on Iraq began on March 20th, 2003. Here is something I found:


Century 2, Quatrain 62
Mabus then will soon die, there will come
A horrible undoing of people and animals:
At once vengeance one will see vengeance,
One hundred hands, thirst, famine, when the comet will run.


John Hogue's Interpretation:
Nostradamus’ Third Antichrist has yet to be positively identified. In contrast with his certainty about Napoleon and Hitler, Nostradamus is less clear who this third tyrant is. Perhaps this is an example of his prophetic myopia that enabled him to be clearest about events of local or European history. When contemplating future events in more distant lands, the prophet’s vision tends to be cloudier. What does come through clearly is the fact that this Third and final Antichrist is not a prominent European leader. He may even be a minor player in a future conflict, an insignificant terrorist such as Gavrilo Princip, the Serbian nationalist who assassinated Archduke Ferdinand of Austria in Sarajevo, triggering World War I.
The man we know as Mabus may be some obscure future terrorist who, if he is not identified and restrained in time, will trigger World War III and the extinction of civilization as we have known it.

The time we have left to positively decode who or what Mabus is, and how to prevent the foretold terrible destiny, may already have passed. The final line could date the beginning of his legacy of terror around the time of the appearance of Halley’s Comet (1985-86), the collision of the comet Shoemaker-Levi (1994), or the comet Hale-Bopp (1997), which appeared right at the millennium of the Jewish lunar calendar.

Mabus could be a cryptogram for Thurbo Majus, the classical Roman name given to the infernal god of Hannibal, or a cryptogram for Megabyzus, one of several conspirators who overthrew a Zoroastrian priest who had usurped the throne of Persia.

An argument could be made that upon this classical foundation, Nostradamus is building a prophecy for the near-future debacle of Saddam Hussein from within, by a Persian (Iranian) ally.

Try this experiment: Take a piece of paper and write "SAddAM." Hold it in front of a mirror.

The mysterious Mabus could be one of dozens of Saddam Hussein’s more sophisticated Al Abbas versions of his Scud missiles. Mabus therefore becomes a weapon launched by the Antichrist in a surprise attack. It "will soon die" in the flames of its own successful explosion after its supersonic journey.


It could be that Saddam triggered this war with the Imam and further continued the "War on Terror". Abu Aly mentioned this century would have many hardships, natural disasters, and pain. The Imam could be seen as the prominent figure that helps the world recover from this war with the institutions that he has set up.

[star_munir]

Both in hadiths and Ginans there are predictions of things which are going to happen at the time when end of world will be near..
There are several signs..
There are 4 yugs or joogs,
Kaliyug ot Kaljoog is the last one which as per my Knowledge started from Feb 3102 B.C.
According to Abu Ali the period of other 3 yugs were from 0 to 3888,000 years.
The time for Kaljug is from 3888,000 year to 3895000....
In the ending years of it will come Dajjal or in langauge of Ginans
Daet Kalingo.
After his end the world will survive from 3895000 to 4328000
years after that time there will be the End of Earth.

[kmaherali]

Both in hadiths and Ginans there are predictions of things which are going to happen at the time when end of world will be near..
There are several signs..
There are 4 yugs or joogs,
Kaliyug ot Kaljoog is the last one which as per my Knowledge started from Feb 3102 B.C.
According to Abu Ali the period of other 3 yugs were from 0 to 3888,000 years.
The time for Kaljug is from 3888,000 year to 3895000....
In the ending years of it will come Dajjal or in langauge of Ginans
Daet Kalingo.
After his end the world will survive from 3895000 to 4328000
years after that time there will be the End of Earth.

According to the following statement of MSMS in his memoir, creation is a perpetual event, there cannot be an end as there was no beginning.

"There is a fundamental difference between the Jewish idea of creation and that of Islam. The creation according to Islam is not a unique act in a given time but a perpetual and constant event; and God supports and sustains all existence at every moment by His will and His thought. Outside His will, outside His thought, all is nothing, even the things which seem to us absolutely self-evident such as space and time."

All the notions of the end of the world need to be understood in this context and to be taken as allegorical and not in a literal manner.

I do not agree with Abu Ali's time frames of the Yugas. They are just too many years! To me Swami Yukteswars theory is more plausible and I am presenting it as stated in his book "The Holy Science" as under:

“My paramguruji maharaj Babaji smiled and, honouring me with the title of Swami, imposed on me the task of this book. I was chosen, I do not know the reason why, to remove the barriers and help in establishing the basic truth in all religions….

A short discussion with mathematical calculation of the yugas or ages will explain the fact that the present age for the world is Dwapura Yuga, and that 194 years of the Yuga have now (A.D. 1894) passed away, bringing a rapid development in man’s knowledge.

We learn from Oriental astronomy that moons revolve around their planets, and planets turning on their axes revolve with their moons round the sun; and sun, with its planets and their moons, takes some star for its dual and revolves round it in about 24,000 years of our earth – a celestial phenomenon which causes the backward movement of the equinoctial points around the zodiac. The sun also has another motion by which it revolves round a grand centre called Vishnunabhi, which is the seat of creative power, Brahma, the universal magnetism. Brahma regulates dharma, the mental virtue of the internal world.

When the sun in its revolution round its dual comes to the place nearest to this grand centre, the seat of Brahma (an event which takes place when the Autumnal Equinox comes to the first point of Aries), dharma, the mental virtue, becomes so much developed that man can easily comprehend all, even the mysteries of Sprirt.

The autumnal Equinox will be falling, at the beginning of the twentieth century, among the fixed stars of the Virgo constellation, and in the early part of the Ascending Dwapura Yuga. (see diagram on pg 9)

After 12,000 years, when the sun goes to the place in its orbit which is farthest from Brahma, the grand centre (an event which takes place when the Autumnal Equinox is on the first point of Libra), dharma, the mental virtue, comes to such a reduced state that man cannot grasp anything beyond the gross material creation. Again, in the same manner, when the sun in its course of revolution begins to advanced toward the place nearest to the grand centre, dharma, the mental virtue, begins to develop; this growth is gradually completed in another 12,000 years.

Each of these periods of 12,000 years brings a complete change, both externally in the material world, and internally in the intellectual or electric world, and is called one of the Daiva Yugas or Electric Couple. Thus, in a period of 24,000 years, the sun completes the revolution around its dual and finishes one electric cycle consisting of 12,000 years in an ascending arc and 12,000 years in a descending arc.

Development of dharma, the mental virtue, is but gradual and is divided into four different stages in a period of 12,000 years. The time of 1200 years during which the sun passess through a 1/20th portion of its orbit is called Kali Yuga. Dharma, mental virtue, is then in its first stage and is only a quarter developed; the first stage and is only a quarter developed; the human intellect cannot comprehend anything beyond the gross material of this ever-changing creation, the external world.

The period of 2400 years during which the sun passes through the 2/20th portion of its orbit is called Dwapura Yuga. Dharma, the mental virtue, is then in the second stage of development and is but half complete; the human intellect can then comprehend the fine matters or electricities and their attributes which are the creating principles of the external world.

The period of 3600 years during which the sun passes through the 3/20th part of its orbit is called Treta Yuga. Dharma, the mental virtue, is then in the third stage; the human intellect becomes able to comprehend the divine magnetism, the source of all electrical forces on which the creation depends for its existence.

The period of 4800 years during which the sun passes through the remaining 4/20th portion of its orbit is called Satya Yuga. Dharma, the mental virtue, is then in its fourth stage and completes its full development; the human intellect can comprehend all, even God the Spirit beyond this visible world.

Manu, a great rishi (illumined sage) of Satya Yuga, describes these Yugas more clearly in the following passage from his Samhita:

[Four thousands of years, they say, is the Krita Yuga (Satya Yuga or the “Golden Age” of the world). Its morning twilight has just as many hundreds, and its period of evening dusk is of the same length (i.e., 400+4000+400=4800). In the other three ages, with their morning and evening twilights, the thousands, and the hundreds decrease by one (i.e., 300+3000+300=3600; etc.). That fourfold cycle comprising 12,000 years is called an Age of the Gods. The sum of a thousand divine ages constitutes one day of Brahma; and of the same length is its night.]

The period of Satya Yuga is 4000 years in duration; 400 years before and after Satya Yuga proper are its sandhis or periods of mutation with the preceding and the succeeding Yugas respectively; hence 4800 years in all is the proper age of Satya Yuga. In the calculation of the period of other Yugas and Yugasandhis, it is laid down that the numeral one should be deducted from the numbers of both thousands and hundreds which indicate the periods of the previous Yugas and sandhis, the periods of mutation, which make a total of 3600 years.

So 2000 years is the age of Dwapura Yuga, with 200 years before and after as its sandhis; a total of 2400 years. Lastly, 1000 years is the length of Kali Yuga, with 100 years before and after as sandhis; a total of 1200 years. Thus 12,000 years, the sum total of all periods of these four Yugas, is the length of one of the Daiva Yugas or Electric Couple, two of which, that is, 24,000 years, make the electric cycle complete.

From 11,501 B.C., when the Autumnal Equinox was on the first point of Aries, the sun began to move away from the point of its orbit nearest to the grand centre toward the point farthest from it, and accordingly the intellectual power of man began to diminish. During the 4800 years which the sun took to pass through one of its orbit, the intellect of man lost altogether the power of grasping spiritual knowledge. During the 3600 years following, which the sun took to pass through the Descending Treta Yuga, the intellect gradually lost all power of grasping the knowledge of electricities and their attributes. In 1200 more years the sun passed through the Descending Kali Yuga and reached the point its orbit which is farthest from the grand centre; the Autumnal Equinox was on the first point of Libra. The intellectual power of man was so much diminished that it could no longer comprehend anything beyond the gross material creation. The period around A.D. 500 was thus the darkest part of Kali Yuga and of the whole cycle of 24,000 years. History indeed bears out the accuracy of these ancient calculations of the Indian rishis, and records the widespread ignorance and suffering in all nations at that period.

From A.D. 499 onward, the sun began to advance toward the grand centre, and the intellect of man started gradually to develop. During the 1100 years of the Ascending Kali Yuga, which brings us to A.D. 1599, the human intellect was so dense that it could not comprehend the electricities, Sukshmabhuta, the fine matters of creation. In the political world also, generally speaking, there was no peace in any kingdom.

Subsequent to this period, when the 100-year transitional sandhi of Kali Yuga set in, to effect a union with the following Dwapara Yuga, men began to notice the existence of fine matters, panchatanmatra or the attributes of electricities; and political peace began to be established.

About A.D. 1600, William Gilbert discovered magnetic forces and observed the presence of electricity in all material substances. In 1609 Keplar discovered important laws of astronomy, and Galileo produced a telescope. In 1621Drebbel of Holland invented the microscope. About 1670 Newton discovered the law of gravitation. In 1700 Thomas Savery made use of a steam engine in raising water. Twenty years later Stephen Gray discovered the action of electricity on the human body.
In the political world, people began to have respect for themselves, and civilization advanced in many ways. England united with Scotland and became a powerful kingdom. Napoleon Bonaparte introduced his new legal code into southern Europe. America won its independence, and many parts of Europe were peaceful.

With the advance of science, the world began to be covered with railways and telegraphic wires. By the help of steam engines, electric machines, and many other instruments, fine matters were brought into practical use, although their nature was not clearly understood. In 1899, on completion of the period of 200 years of Dwapara Sandhi, the time of mutation, the true Dwapura Yuga of 2000 years will commence and will give to mankind in general a thorough understanding of the electricities and their attributes.

Such is the great influence of Time which governs the universe. No man can overcome this influence except him who, blessed with pure love, the heavenly gift of nature, becomes divine; being baptized in the sacred stream Pranava (the Holy Aum vibration), he comprehends the Kingdom of God.

The position of the world in the Dwapura Sandhi era at present (A.D. 1894) is not correctly shown in the Hindu almanacs. The astronomers and astrologers who calculate the almanacs have been guided by wrong annotations of certain Sanskrit scholars (such as Kulluka Bhatta) of the dark age of Kali Yuga, and now maintain that the length of Kali Yuga is 432,000 years, of which 4994 have (in A.D. 1984) passed away, leaving 427,006 years still remaining. A dark prospect! and fortunately one not true.

The mistake crept into almanacs for the first time during the reign of Raja Parikshit, just after the completion of the last Descending Dwapara Yuga. At that time Maharaja Yudhisthira, noticing the appearance of the dark Kali Yuga, made over his throne to his grandson, the said Raja Parikshit. Maharaja Yudhisthira, together with all the wise men of his court, retired to the Himalaya Mountains, the paradise of the world. Thus there was none in the court of Raja Parikshit who could understand the principle of correctly calculating the ages of the several Yugas.

Hence, after the compilation of the 2400 years of the then current Dwapara Yuga, no one dared to make the introduction of the dark Kali Yuga more manifest by beginning to calculate from its first year and to put an end to the number of Dwapara years.

According to this wrong method of calculating, therefore, the first year of Kali Yuga was numbered 2401 along with the age of Dwapara Yuga. In A.D. 499, when 1200 years, the length of true Kali Yuga, was complete, and the sun had reached the point of its orbit farthest from the grand centre (when the Autumnal Equinox was on the first point of Libra in the heavens), the age of Kali in its darkest period was then numbered by 3600 years instead of by 1200.

With the commencement of the Ascending Kali Yuga, after A.D 499, the sun began to advance in its orbit nearer to the grand centre, and accordingly the intellectual power of man started to develop. Therefore the mistake in the almanacs began to be noticed by the wise men of the time, who found that the calculations of the ancient rishis had fixed the period of one Kali Yuga at 1200 years only. But as the intellect of these wise men was not yet suitably developed, they could make out only the mistake itself, and not the reason for it. By way of reconciliation, they fancied that 1200 years, the real age of Kali, were not the ordinary years of our earth, but were so many daiva years (“years of the gods”), consisting of 12 daiva months of 30 daiva days each, with each daiva day being equal to one ordinary solar year of our earth. Hence according to these men 1200 years of Kali Yuga must equal to 432,000 years of our earth.

In coming to a right conclusion, however, we should take into consideration the position of the Vernal Equinox at spring in the year 1894.

The astronomical reference books show the Vernal Equinox now to be 20*54’36” distant from the first point of Aries (the fixed star Revati), and by calculation it will appear that 1394 years have passed since the time when the Vernal Equinox began to recede from the first point of Aries.

Deducing 1200 years (the length of the last Ascending Kali Yuga) from 1394 years, we get 194 to indicate the present year of the world’s entrance into the Ascending Dwapara Yuga. The mistake of older almanacs will thus be clearly explained when we add 3600 years to this period of 1394 years and get 4994 years – which according to the prevailing mistaken theory represents the present year (A.D. 1894) in the Hindu almanacs.

[Referring to the Diagram given in this book, the reader will see that the Autumnal Equinox is now (A.D. 1894) falling among the stars of the Virgo constellation, and in the Ascending Dwapara Yuga.]

In this book certain truths such as those about the properties of magnetism, its auras, different sorts of electricities, etc., have been mentioned, although modern science has not yet fully discovered them. The five sorts of electricity can be easily understood if one will direct his attention to the nerve properties, which are purely electrical in nature. Each of the five sensory nerves has its characteristic and unique function to perform. The optic nerve carries light and does not perform the functions of the auditory and other nerves; the auditory nerve in its turn carries sound only, without performing the functions of any other nerves, and so on. Thus it is clear that there are five sorts of electricity, corresponding to the five properties of cosmic electricity.

So far as magnetic properties are concerned, the grasping power of the human intellect is at present so limited that it would be quite useless to attempt to make the matter understood by the genera public. The intellect of man in Treta Yuga will comprehend the attributes of divine magnetism (the next Treta Yuga will start in A.D. 4099). There are indeed exceptional personages now living who, having overcome the influence of Time, can grasp today what ordinary people cannot grasp; but this book is not for those exalted ones, who require nothing of it.

In concluding this introduction, we may observe that the different planets, exercising their influence over the various days of the week, have lent their names to their respective days; similarly, the different constellations of stars, having influence over various months, have lent their names to the Hindu months. Each of the great Yugas has much influence over the period of time covered by it; hence, in designing the years it is desirable that such terms should indicate to which Yuga they belong.

As the Yugas are calculated from the position of the equinox, the method of numbering the years in reference to their respective Yuga is based on a scientific principle; its use will obviate much inconvenience which has arisen in the past owing to association of the various eras with persons of eminence rather than with celestial phenomena of the fixed stars. We therefore propose to name and number the year in which this introduction has been written as 194 Dwapara, instead of A.D. 1894, to show the exact time of the Yuga now passing. This method of calculation was prevalent in India till the reign of Raja Vikramaditya, when the Samvat era was introduced. As the Yuga method of calculation recommends itself to reason, we follow it, and recommend that it be followed by the public in general.

Now in this 194th year of Dwapara Yuga, the dark age of Kali having long since passed, the world is reaching out for spiritual knowledge, and men require loving help one from the other. The publishing of this book, requested from me by my holy paramguru maharaj Babaji, will, I hope, be of spiritual service.” (Swami Sri Yukeswar Giri, Serampore, West Bengal, The 26th Falgun, 194 Dwapara (A.D. 1894)

Based upon the above theory, the following are the time frames.

Satya Yuga ( 11,501 B.C. – 6,701 B.C.) 4800 years
Treta Yuga (6,701 B.C. – 3,101 B.C.) 3600 years
Dwapara Yuga ( 3,101 B.C. – 701 B.C.) 2400 years
Kali Yuga - Descending (701BC – 499A.D.) 1200 years
Kali Yuga – Ascending (500 A.D. – 1700 A.D.) 1200 years
Dwapara Yuga – Ascending ( 1700 A.D. – 2006) 306 years

I would like to hear about your views on the above theory. The theory suggests that we are in the ascending Dwapura Yuga in which the capacity of human intelligence to comprehend God's creation is accelerating.

[nashvelshi]

I know from my readings in astronomy that our solar system(our sun and its planets) exist in one of the spiral arms(the Orion arm) of our Milky Way spiral galaxy. At the centre of our Milky Way spiral-shaped galaxy is a massive black hole around which our solar system revolves. Each revolution takes about 250 million years to complete.

How does this information fit in with the information you just gave us on the previous post?

[star_munir]

What I meant to wrote is not there will be end of creation but end of this world..
Do you think its Dwapur yug then what about all Ginans saying present era as Kaliyug?

[kmaherali]

I know from my readings in astronomy that our solar system(our sun and its planets) exist in one of the spiral arms(the Orion arm) of our Milky Way spiral galaxy. At the centre of our Milky Way spiral-shaped galaxy is a massive black hole around which our solar system revolves. Each revolution takes about 250 million years to complete.

How does this information fit in with the information you just gave us on the previous post?

I do not see any issue. The sun discussed and its dual are only a minor aspect of the milky way. Just as the moon revolving around the earth and the earth revolving around the sun etc. We can have sub systems within a larger system.

[kmaherali]

What I meant to wrote is not there will be end of creation but end of this world..
Do you think its Dwapur yug then what about all Ginans saying present era as Kaliyug?

And what do you exactly mean by the end of the world? End of our planet? End of humanity?

When Ginans were composed it was Kaljug. Since about 1700 AD, it is Dwapur Jug.

[yaali101]

What I meant to wrote is not there will be end of creation but end of this world..
Do you think its Dwapur yug then what about all Ginans saying present era as Kaliyug?

And what do you exactly mean by the end of the world? End of our planet? End of humanity?

When Ginans were composed it was Kaljug. Since about 1700 AD, it is Dwapur Jug.

It could be that Humans will come to an end, as the dinosaurs did. God may have created many other planets, living beings, or other beings beyond our comprehension.

kmaherali,

I know you do not believe in reincarnation, but do you think we can maybe after this life be sent to another plane of existance?

[kmaherali]

kmaherali,

I know you do not believe in reincarnation, but do you think we can maybe after this life be sent to another plane of existance?

Yes there would be higher existences on non-physical planes before the ultimate purpose is achieved. This is as per MSMS's statement.

[kmaherali]

I just want to add my further reflections on Swami Yukteshvar's theory of Yugas that I presented yesterday.

In our tradition, Pahelaaj is the master of 5 crores of liberated ones during the Karta Yuga. Harishchandra is regarded as the master of 7 crores of liberated ones during the Treta Yuga. Yujesthan is regarded as the saviour of 9 crores of the Dwapur Yuga. Pir Sadardin is considered as the saviour of 12 crores during the Kali Yuga.

Pir Hassan Kabirdeen is the saviour of the souls of the "Fadta Vela" meaning 'turning times'. In my opinion the turning times would refer to all periods in their ascending cycles, hence he is considered as the saviour of the countless ones now and to come.

[star_munir]

By end of world I meant to say end of this planet. Besides Earth there are many planets in our universe. Many stars, moons etc. Whatever thing is created has an end and hence there is also end of the world but that not means with the end of this planet all creation of God will come to end.

[nashvelshi]

Speaking of earth, creation, sun and planets, can anyone explain to me if there is a harmonization between the the ginanic( ie, Pir-based as it links to the Hindu concept of Avtars of God) and the earlier cosmological doctrines propounded by, especially, the 10th and 11th century Iranian dais like Al-Nasafi, Al-Sijistani, Al-Kirmani, Nasir Khusraw and the like. The latter developed cosmological doctrines that had their basis in Quranic concepts.
For example, the Quranic concept of Kuni or "Al-Sabiq"(aka the "Preceder", the "Pen"(qalam), the "Decree"(qada), the "Sun"(shams))
is represented by the "Universal Intellect" in Yakub Al-Sijistani's cosmological formulation. The Universal Intellect of Al-Sijistani's doctrine was the only thing to be created by the Absolutely Transcendent Originator(aka "Mubdi" or Originator) by the Quranic expression of God's fiat, 'Be and it is'(ie, kun fa-yakun) and all else emerged from the Universal Intellect by a process of emanation. The first entity to emerge from the Universal Intellect was the Quranic Qadar or "Al-Tali"(aka the "Follower",
the "Tablet"(lawh), the "Moon"(qamar)) and this is represented by the "Universal Soul" in Al-Sijistani's cosmological doctrine.
The Universal Intellect and Universal Soul of Al-Sijistani represent only two of his four wellsprings of knowledge. The other two are represented by the Natiq and Asas.
In this doctrine the Universal Intellect represents the rational law that governs and regulates all things. The contents of this Intellect represent the intellible properties of the universe, the thingness of things and the Intellect is a world that exists prior to and quite independently of partiular things in the physical world.
The Universal Soul is the fashioner of the universe in both its non-material and material sense and is thus also the composer of both space and time. Its activity and function corresponds to the function of the Natiq in this doctrine in that the Natiq takes the inspiration he recieves from Universal Intellect and uses it to compose a verbal scripture much as the Universal Soul uses the inspiration it recieves from Universal Intellect to compose the material universe we live in. That is why ISMS says that the word "ayat' is used in the Quran to represent both a verse of the scripture as well as an object or event in the material universe.
While the there is an initial downward axis or flow from the Universal Intellect to Universal Soul to Natiq(Prophet), it is the function of the Asas(aka Wasi, Samit, Imam) to turn the axis or flow back upward towards the Universal Intellect by helping the commonfolk to understand the inner meaning and significance of the compositions of both the Universal Soul and the Natiq. Because the Asas is the only one of the four wellsprings of knowledge to be living in the world today, he is the supreme commander of all that exists in the creation and the elucidator of all the holy documents and scriptures that have ever been written. Only with his help can one hope to achieve an understanding of the Universal Intellect, which represents the "Face of Allah", firstly, and then, the Absolute Transcendence of Allah.

[yaali101]

In this doctrine the Universal Intellect represents the rational law that governs and regulates all things. The contents of this Intellect represent the intellible properties of the universe, the thingness of things and the Intellect is a world that exists prior to and quite independently of partiular things in the physical world.
The Universal Soul is the fashioner of the universe in both its non-material and material sense and is thus also the composer of both space and time. Its activity and function corresponds to the function of the Natiq in this doctrine in that the Natiq takes the inspiration he recieves from Universal Intellect and uses it to compose a verbal scripture much as the Universal Soul uses the inspiration it recieves from Universal Intellect to compose the material universe we live in. That is why ISMS says that the word "ayat' is used in the Quran to represent both a verse of the scripture as well as an object or event in the material universe.
While the there is an initial downward axis or flow from the Universal Intellect to Universal Soul to Natiq(Prophet), it is the function of the Asas(aka Wasi, Samit, Imam) to turn the axis or flow back upward towards the Universal Intellect by helping the commonfolk to understand the inner meaning and significance of the compositions of both the Universal Soul and the Natiq. Because the Asas is the only one of the four wellsprings of knowledge to be living in the world today, he is the supreme commander of all that exists in the creation and the elucidator of all the holy documents and scriptures that have ever been written. Only with his help can one hope to achieve an understanding of the Universal Intellect, which represents the "Face of Allah", firstly, and then, the Absolute Transcendence of Allah.

Universal Intellect = The first thing created by Allah
Universal Soul = Being/Thing created by the Universal Inetellect that actually creates the material world.
Natiq = Prophet who derives knowledge from the Universal Intellect
Asas = Imam who ...?

Is the Asas not the same as the Natiq? The Imam provides guidance.

Also,

While the there is an initial downward axis or flow from the Universal Intellect to Universal Soul to Natiq(Prophet), it is the function of the Asas(aka Wasi, Samit, Imam) to turn the axis or flow back upward towards the Universal Intellect by helping the commonfolk to understand the inner meaning and significance of the compositions of both the Universal Soul and the Natiq.

So are the common people the Universal Intellect if the Imam is reversing the flow? Is he helping us realize who we really are? Where do we fit into this picture?

[kmaherali]

Speaking of earth, creation, sun and planets, can anyone explain to me if there is a harmonization between the the ginanic( ie, Pir-based as it links to the Hindu concept of Avtars of God) and the earlier cosmological doctrines propounded by, especially, the 10th and 11th century Iranian dais like Al-Nasafi, Al-Sijistani, Al-Kirmani, Nasir Khusraw and the like. The latter developed cosmological doctrines that had their basis in Quranic concepts.
For example, the Quranic concept of Kuni or "Al-Sabiq"(aka the "Preceder", the "Pen"(qalam), the "Decree"(qada), the "Sun"(shams))
is represented by the "Universal Intellect" in Yakub Al-Sijistani's cosmological formulation. The Universal Intellect of Al-Sijistani's doctrine was the only thing to be created by the Absolutely Transcendent Originator(aka "Mubdi" or Originator) by the Quranic expression of God's fiat, 'Be and it is'(ie, kun fa-yakun) and all else emerged from the Universal Intellect by a process of emanation. The first entity to emerge from the Universal Intellect was the Quranic Qadar or "Al-Tali"(aka the "Follower",
the "Tablet"(lawh), the "Moon"(qamar)) and this is represented by the "Universal Soul" in Al-Sijistani's cosmological doctrine.
The Universal Intellect and Universal Soul of Al-Sijistani represent only two of his four wellsprings of knowledge. The other two are represented by the Natiq and Asas.
In this doctrine the Universal Intellect represents the rational law that governs and regulates all things. The contents of this Intellect represent the intellible properties of the universe, the thingness of things and the Intellect is a world that exists prior to and quite independently of partiular things in the physical world.
The Universal Soul is the fashioner of the universe in both its non-material and material sense and is thus also the composer of both space and time. Its activity and function corresponds to the function of the Natiq in this doctrine in that the Natiq takes the inspiration he recieves from Universal Intellect and uses it to compose a verbal scripture much as the Universal Soul uses the inspiration it recieves from Universal Intellect to compose the material universe we live in. That is why ISMS says that the word "ayat' is used in the Quran to represent both a verse of the scripture as well as an object or event in the material universe.
While the there is an initial downward axis or flow from the Universal Intellect to Universal Soul to Natiq(Prophet), it is the function of the Asas(aka Wasi, Samit, Imam) to turn the axis or flow back upward towards the Universal Intellect by helping the commonfolk to understand the inner meaning and significance of the compositions of both the Universal Soul and the Natiq. Because the Asas is the only one of the four wellsprings of knowledge to be living in the world today, he is the supreme commander of all that exists in the creation and the elucidator of all the holy documents and scriptures that have ever been written. Only with his help can one hope to achieve an understanding of the Universal Intellect, which represents the "Face of Allah", firstly, and then, the Absolute Transcendence of Allah.

I will respond first of all with the premise that by Ginanic knowledge is meant all knowledge that is derived from our Pirs; whether of the past or the current one and of course the knowledge of the latter would override that of the former. Also Ginanic knowledge is very purposeful - it leads a person to spiritual enlightenment and is not meant for idle speculation. In this regard the cosmological view is tied up with sources of guidance and wisdom which lead the individual soul to its ultimate purpose of God realisation.

My sense of classical Ismaili thinkers is that they reflected the thought of their times and integrated their ideas with them.

According to MSMS in his memoirs, "The creation according to Islam is not a unique act in a given time but a perpetual and constant event; and God supports and sustains all existence at every moment by His will and His thought. Outside His will, outside His thought, all is nothing, even the things which seem to us absolutely self-evident such as space and time. Allah alone wishes: the Universe exists; and all manifestations are as a witness of the Divine will."

MHI in his speech made at the AKU stated, "Indeed, one strength of Islam has always lain in its belief that creation is not static but continuous, that through scientific and other endeavours, God has opened and continues to open new windows for us to see the marvels of His creation."

From the above statements of our Pirs, creation is not a series of unique acts in given times but is continuous and that it is sustained by the Divine Will which we may call the Universal Intellect. Also from the statement of MHI above we are told that new windows are opened for us to see the marvels of Allah's creation. This would imply that our criteria or modes of perception will change reflecting the prevailing thought and hence our cosmological views will vary.

One consequence is that establishment of Sharia which was synonymous to creation in clasical thought and which therefore gave the Prophet the role or the embodiment of the "Universal Soul", is not a facet of Ginanic view. The corresponding function of the Asas or the interpretor of the Divine Law does not exist in Ginanic literature.

From the Ginanic standpoint, the Imam is the mazhar of the Essence of God which is undescribable and unknowable as per the verse:

yaa khudaava(n)d, tu(n) aape ilaahee tu(n) aape neeree(n)jan
tu(n) aapo hee aap pareeyaann jee...............3

Oh Lord: You are Divine and You are invisible (non-created,
indescriptible). You create by Yourself in a spontaneous manner.

The Imam creates through the agency of the Noor or the Universal Intellect which is manifested in the Pir as per the verse:

satgur kahere nure meendar samaareeyaa
ane nure rachyo aasmaan
te nur maanhethee nur pragatteeyaa
tenu satgur chhe naam re.........................10

The True Guide says: The world originated from the light, and the heavens were created from the light. From the (primordial) light, light manifested. It's name is the True Guide(Pir).(SN)

According to MSMS in his memoirs, creation itself is the Universal Soul.

"Thus man's soul has never been left without a specially inspired messenger from the soul that sustains, embraces and is the universe".

As I stated earlier guidance and knowledge leading towards God realization is an essential aspect of Ginanic vision. This is manifested in the NOOR which is embodied in the Pir and which has always been there since creation. Prophet Muhammad is considered as a Pir. The following verses convey this.

- Sloko Nano

satgur kahere: ame aaveeyaa ehee lokmaa(n)
ane laavyaa mugatno bhed
jene nur satgur bhette-aa
te amar huaa tatakhev re.........................27

The True Guide says: We have come into this world, and have brought the essence of salvation. Whoever has (been) embraced (by)the Light of the True Guide, has attained immortality at that moment

Ginan - Nar Naklanki ker Vaat

ejee satgur sat karee jaann mahamad rupejee
aad niri(n)jan saam sadaay alee rupejee......................2

Know with conviction that the True Guide is in the form of Prophet Muhammed.
The Everliving Lord who is undescriptible and unknowable from the beginning,
is indeed in the form of Alee.

ejee japee-e teno jaa(m)p alakh chhe aape jee
i pure chhe man ddaanee haam darshan aapejee.................5

Recite and remember His word which represents the
unknowable and undescriptible (Lord) to you. (Through the recitation
of the Word), He fulfills the desires of the mind and bestows His Vision.


ejee darshan saaraa kaam ke feraa chhutte chhe
jenne guru upar raakhyaa imaan ke sohee chhutte chhe.........6

Through the good deeds resulting from the Vision
(or with the Vision resulting from good deeds), one gets
freedom from all the cycles of rebirth. The ones who have
retained their faith in the Guide will get salvation.

Ginan - Sab Ghatt Sami Maro Bharpur Bettha

ejee dhartee nahotee aasamaan na hotaa
tees deen tu(n) ek ilaahee ek jeeyo.........................18

O momins: When there was neither the earth nor the heavens,
the Lord was the only principle that existed on that day.


ejee tisdeen peer saaheb jee ke paase
tame sunno maaraa moman bhaai jee ek jeeyo..................19

O momins: On that day the Peer was with the Lord (Imaam).
O my momins listen to this truth.


ejee pahele dha(n)dhukaar maa(n)he nabee muhammed mustaphaa
sohee guru ja(m)pudeep maa(n)he aayaa ek jeeyo..............20

O momins: In the beginning and in the void,
Prophet Muhammed the Chosen was there. It is indeed the same Guide
(Peer) who has come to the Indian Subcontinent.


ejee gurnar kero paar na jaannu
je peerne parsaade moman deetthaa ek jeeyo..................21

O momins: I know no bounds of the 'gurnar'
(Peer and Shaah= HaazarImaam), of whom the momins have
been blessed to recognise through the Peers.

So the Pir who is the agency of creation is also the agency of return to the origin. It is through the Noor of Piratan that one attains the Essence of God as manifested in the Imam.

[yaali101]

So the Pir who is the agency of creation is also the agency of return to the origin. It is through the Noor of Piratan that one attains the Essence of God as manifested in the Imam.

I think there is a farman by ISMS where he said he is the river that will guide you, a drop of water, into the ocean that is Allah. Just to clarify, can someone relate how we fit into the picture - if the universal intellect was the thing created by god and the universal intellect inturn created the universal soul, which is the Pir, where do we fit in? Are we part of the universal soul (since the universe in its physical form is the universal soul. Could this by why in some farmans the Imam/Pir has said there is not difference between you and me?). Please clarify what is the universal soul, universal intellect, and how Imam and Pir play into this.

[kmaherali]

I think there is a farman by ISMS where he said he is the river that will guide you, a drop of water, into the ocean that is Allah. Just to clarify, can someone relate how we fit into the picture - if the universal intellect was the thing created by god and the universal intellect inturn created the universal soul, which is the Pir, where do we fit in? Are we part of the universal soul (since the universe in its physical form is the universal soul. Could this by why in some farmans the Imam/Pir has said there is not difference between you and me?). Please clarify what is the universal soul, universal intellect, and how Imam and Pir play into this.

In my opinion the river that you refer to is the Pir (Noor) and the Imam (Essence) is the ocean. We are the individual souls, there is a Farman which says that the soul is created and given a physical form. Hence all physical forms - the entire creation is the Universal soul. From the Ginanic perspective the Universal Intellect is the Pir. The Imam is the Mazhar of the Essence - the source and object of our existence. The Pir guides individuals souls towards the Imam, hence we have a verse of a Ginan: "Nabi Muhammad bujo bhai to tame pamo Imam" meaning "recognise or know the Muhammad (Pir) so that you may attain the Imam". Once the individual soul merges in the ocean there is no difference between the Imam and the murid.

[yaali101]

In my opinion the river that you refer to is the Pir (Noor) and the Imam (Essence) is the ocean. We are the individual souls, there is a Farman which says that the soul is created and given a physical form. Hence all physical forms - the entire creation is the Universal soul. From the Ginanic perspective the Universal Intellect is the Pir. The Imam is the Mazhar of the Essence - the source and object of our existence. The Pir guides individuals souls towards the Imam, hence we have a verse of a Ginan: "Nabi Muhammad bujo bhai to tame pamo Imam" meaning "recognise or know the Muhammad (Pir) so that you may attain the Imam". Once the individual soul merges in the ocean there is no difference between the Imam and the murid.

Good explaination. What I meant as the Imam being the river is that currently he is also the Pir. So does this mean that during all the ages there has been a Pir to guide the people? I know there have been 124,000 prophets, but I remember some of them not being perfect (There was some prophet who asked a tree for help when people were trying to kill him and god became angery with him...). Also, the Imam has been present at all times on the planet as well, right? So there could have been situations where he was also the pir, as he is now(Ram, etc.). So has the Imam actually provided guidance - in the true Imam form and not the Pir form?

[kmaherali]

Good explaination. What I meant as the Imam being the river is that currently he is also the Pir. So does this mean that during all the ages there has been a Pir to guide the people? I know there have been 124,000 prophets, but I remember some of them not being perfect (There was some prophet who asked a tree for help when people were trying to kill him and god became angery with him...). Also, the Imam has been present at all times on the planet as well, right? So there could have been situations where he was also the pir, as he is now(Ram, etc.). So has the Imam actually provided guidance - in the true Imam form and not the Pir form?

As mentioned in one of the verses of Ginan Sab Ghat Sami Maaro above Pirs have always been there since creation. I will restate the verse as under:

ejee pahele dha(n)dhukaar maa(n)he nabee muhammed mustaphaa
sohee guru ja(m)pudeep maa(n)he aayaa ek jeeyo..............20

O momins: In the beginning and in the void,
Prophet Muhammed the Chosen was there. It is indeed the same Guide
(Peer) who has come to the Indian Subcontinent.

Yes, at times the Imams have assumed both roles as at present. But the dual concept of Imamat/Piratan has always been. Sometimes the roles have been separated and sometimes combined. The Imams have performed as Pirs when the roles were combined. So when he gives Farmans he is acting as a Pir/Murshid/Guide.

[nashvelshi]

My response to the hothead in the poll section of the website:

Re: My belief in God comes from
by Anonymous on Feb 16, 2006 - 10:39 AM

Relax Anonymous!, Your use of capital letters makes it sound and look like you are a raving lunatic, frothing at the mouth and I visualise a bearded mullah in full middle eastern garb burning some country''s flag. Calm down!

To answer your question, Yakub Al-Sijistani is definitely not God. In fact, he was nothing more than an Ismaili intellectual who developed a doctrine of belief based on knowledge acquired from ancient Greece via the Byzantine empire as well as knowledge acquired from Quranic concepts and Prophetic sayings. For these beliefs he was executed in 971AD by, get this, a Buyid governor, who was himself a twelver shiite. This was a classic case of one "shit" killing another "shit"!

These doctrines emerged not long after our 5th Imam, Jafar As-Sadiq, had formulated the doctrine of Imamat and shiites around that time had a belief that the Mahdi or Saviour would be Imam Muhammad Bin Ismail, the 7th Imam(the famous multiple of 7 that permeates Shia thought).

Al-Sijistani was just following the dictates of the Prophet, who said: "Seek knowledge, even if you have to go to China". He used some ideas from Greek neoplatonic thought that he felt would explain his thinking better and integrated them with the general muslim concept of Prophethood and the specific shia concept of Imamat. He postulated four wellsprings of knowledge that humans would need in order to better understand and come closer to the Absolutely Transcendent Allah, who is beyond any description that the feeble human mind can offer, beyond anything to do with the creation including time and space.

My specific interest in this cosmological doctrine stems from the fact that I am an avid student of science, which is broadly defined as a study of the objects and events in the universe. One of Al-Sijistani''s wellsprings of knowledge has as its endpoint the material universe that we see around us and live in. In ISMS''s memoirs he quotes Imam Hasan, the son of Hazrat Ali and grandson of the Prophet, as saying that, metaphorically, Allah is the sun and the universe, with all its glory, is nothing more than a reflection of the sun in a pool of water. Al-Sijistani''s suggestion is that an intellectual study of the universe allows one to access one of the four wellsprings of knowledge and, used in conjunction with the other three wellsprings, can help one come closer to an understanding of the essence of Tawhid.

[nashvelshi]

kmaherali,

On one of your recent posts you quoted from the memoirs of ISMS regarding the creation. In the book he is comparing the Islamic view of creation with the Judeo-Christian view and says to the effect that in the latter view the creation is a unique event in a given time wheras for Islam the creation is a perpetual and constant event, where everything is constantly being supported by his God's will and that outside his will and thought all is nothing, including space and time.

From my readings in astronomy I found an excellent example to support the Islamic concept of creation and I thought you might be interested to know about it.

We know from studies in astrophysics that, whereas the universe is thought to be about 13.7 billion years old, our own solar system is generally thought to be about 4.6 billion years old. As you know, our own solar system is located in the Milky Way galaxy, which is a spiral shaped galaxy. Recent investigations using the Hubble space telescope(around 2002-2003) showed a new solar system being formed in the Orion nebula, located in the Orion arm of our Milky Way galaxy.

This is a brand new solar system, consisting of a sun and 2, possibly 3 planets being formed at this very moment as I am making this post. To me this is a clear example that shows that creation is a perpetual and constant event. It is like watching a movie rerun of the formation of our own solar system 4.6 billion years ago.

[nashvelshi]

The essence of philosophical Ismailism: from the Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy:





Ismaili Philosophy

Ismailism belongs to the Shi‘a main stream of Islam. Recent scholarship, based on a more judicious analysis of primary sources, has shown how Ismaili thought was in constant interaction with and to a certain extent influenced well-known currents of Islamic philosophy, theology, and mysticism.
Shi‘i and Ismaili philosophy use ta’wil as a tool of interpretation of scripture. This Qur’anic term connotes going back to the original meaning of the Qur’an. The objective of Ismaili thought is to create a bridge between Hellenic philosophy and religion. The human intellect is engaged to retrieve and disclose that which is interior or hidden (batin).

Ismailism presents a cosmology within an adapted Neoplatonic framework but tries to create an alternative synthesis. The starting point of such a synthesis is the doctrine of ibda‘ (derived from Qur’an 2:117). In its verbal form it is taken to mean 'eternal existentiation' to explain the notion in the Qur’an of God’s timeless command (Kun: ‘Be!’). The process of creation can be said to take place at several levels. Ibda‘ represents the initial level. The human intellect eventually relates to creation and tries to penetrate the mystery of the unknowable God.

Human history operates cyclically. The function of the Prophet is to reveal the religious law (shari‘a) while the Imam unveils gradually to his disciples the inner meaning (batin) of the revelation through the ta’wil.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Table of Contents (Clicking on the links below will take you to those parts of this article)
1. Introduction
2. Language and Meaning: The Stance of Ismaili Philosophy
3. Manifesting Transcendence: Knowledge of the Cosmos


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1. Introduction

Ismailism belongs to the Shi‘a branch of Islam, and, in common with various Muslim interpretive communities, has been concerned with developing a philosophical discourse to elucidate foundational Qur’anic and Islamic beliefs and principles. It would, however, be misleading to label Ismaili and other Muslim philosophical stances, as has been done by some scholars in the past, simplistically as manifestations of "Ismaili/Muslim Neoplatonism," and "Ismaili/Muslim gnosticism," and so forth. While elements of these philosophical and spiritual schools were certainly appropriated, and common features may be evident in the expression and development of Ismaili as well as other ideas, it must be noted that they were applied within very different historical and intellectual contexts and that such ideas came to be quite dramatically transformed in their meaning, purpose and significance in Islamic philosophy.

By those who were hostile to it or opposed its philosophical and intellectual stance, the Ismailis were regarded as heretical; legends were fabricated about them and their teachings. Early Western scholarship on Islamic philosophy inherited some of the biases of some medieval Muslim anti-philosophical stances, which tended to project a negative image of Ismailism, perceiving its philosophical contribution as having been derived from sources and tendencies 'alien' to Islam. Recent scholarship, based on a more judicious analysis of primary sources, provides a balanced perspective, and has shown how Ismaili thought was in constant interaction with and to a certain extent influenced well-known currents of Islamic philosophy and theology. Their views represent a consensus that it is inappropriate to treat Ismailism as a marginal school of Islamic thought; rather it constitutes a significant philosophical branch, among others, in Islamic philosophy.

Early Ismaili philosophy works dating back to the Fatimid period (fourth/tenth to sixth/twelfth century) are in Arabic; Nasir Khusraw (d. 471/1078) was the only Ismaili writer of the period to write in Persian. The Arabic tradition was continued in Yemen and India by the Musta‘li branch and in Syria by the Nizaris. In Persia and in Central Asia, the tradition was preserved and elaborated in Persian. Elsewhere among the Ismailis, local oral languages and literatures played an important part, though no strictly philosophical writings were developed in these languages.





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2. Language and Meaning: The Stance of Ismaili Philosophy

Among the tools of interpretation of scripture that are associated particularly with Shi‘i and Ismaili philosophy is that of ta’wil. The application of this Qur’anic term, which connotes "going back to the first/the beginning," marks the effort in Ismaili thought of creating a philosophical and hermeneutical discourse that establishes the intellectual discipline for approaching revelation and creates a bridge between philosophy and religion.

Philosophy as conceived in Ismaili thought thus seeks to extend the meaning of religion and revelation to identify the visible and the apparent (zahir) and also to penetrate to the roots, to retrieve and disclose that which is interior or hidden (batin). Ultimately, this discovery engages both the intellect (‘aql) and the spirit (ruh), functioning in an integral manner to illuminate and disclose truths (haqa’iq).

The appropriate mode of language which serves us best in this task is, according to Ismaili philosophers, symbolic language. Such language, which employs analogy, metaphor and symbols, allows one to make distinctions and to establish differences in ways that a literal reading of language does not permit. Such language employs a special system of signs, the ultimate meaning of which can be 'unveiled' by the proper application of hermeneutics (ta’wil).





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3. Manifesting Transcendence: Knowledge of the Cosmos

It has been argued that Ismaili cosmology, integrates a manifestational cosmology (analogous to some aspects of Stoic thought) within an adapted Neoplatonic framework to create an alternative synthesis. The starting point of such a synthesis is the doctrine of ibda (derived from Qur’an 2:117). In its verbal form it is taken to mean 'eternal existentiation' to explain the notion in the Qur’an of God’s timeless command (Kun: Be!). Ibda therefore connotes not a specific act of creation but the dialogical mode through which a relationship between God and His creation can be affirmed - it articulates the process of beginning and sets the stage for developing a philosophy of the manifestation of transcendence in creation.

In sum the process of creation can be said to take place at several levels. Ibda represents the initial level - one transcends history, the other creates it. The spiritual and material realms are not dichotomous, since in the Ismaili formulation, matter and spirit are united under a higher genus and each realm possesses its own hierarchy. Though they require linguistic and rational categories for definition, they represent elements of a whole, and a true understanding of God must also take account of His creation. Such a synthesis is crucial to how the human intellect eventually relates to creation and how it ultimately becomes the instrument for penetrating through history the mystery of the unknowable God implied in the formulation of tawhid.

Human history, as conceived in Ismailism, operates cyclically. According to this typological view, the epoch of the great prophets mirrors the cosmological paradigm, unfolding to recover the equilibrium and harmony inherent in the divine pattern of creation. Prophets and, after them, their appointed successors, the imams, have as their collective goal the establishment of a just society. The function of the Prophet is to initiate the cycle for human society and of the Imam to complement and interpret the teaching to sustain the just order at the social and individual levels.

As Nasir Khusraw, the best known of the Ismaili writers in Persian, states in a passage paraphrased by Corbin:

Time is eternity measured by the movements of the heavens,
whose name is day, night, month, year. Eternity is Time not
measured, having neither beginning nor end…The cause of Time
is the Soul of the World….; it is not in time, for time is
in the horizon of the soul as its instrument, as the duration
of the living mortal who is "the shadow of the soul", while
eternity is the duration of the living immortal - that is to
say of the Intelligence and of the Soul.
This synthesis of time as cycle and time as arrow lies at the heart of an Ismaili philosophy of active engagement in the world.


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Author Information:
Azim Nanji
Email: [email protected]
The Institute of Ismaili Studies

[****]

There must be someone who has read the ginan Al Wa'az Abu Aly was referring to. He mentioned that he knows the date and place where the war would start, but said he cannot tell us this. Has anyone done any research regarding this matter? I understand some folks on this board, like kmaherali, believe that the ginans are just allegorical and are not to be take literally, but can it not be true that the Pirs were maybe killing two birds with one stone - the were pointing out the Daiet is the lower self but that there will also be a Daiet in real life. Please shed some insight on this topic, as I am eager to know more.

At first I did not understand what was that you were asking but from the above post I understand so here is something to think about (this is [from] Persian take [view]):
'It supposed to start on Nav-roze around 12:00 (noon).'
This is a very old saying, before folks know what time zones were and leap year was calculated but they know the season and sun shadow. Now, here is the million $ question: Do you know when the 2ns Persian Gulf War stared and when the first shot was fired?
That may be the start which could last or envelope into something even bigger and last for another 100 years or so well in the 51st Imam’s time. Something to think about, huh!!
By the way, According to AbuAly, in 1979, 129 years out for it to be over and the Imam of the time to claim his Kingdom.

Wow, so the war has already begun. I am amazed at the accuracy of the prediction - the war on Iraq began on March 20th, 2003.

so the war in iraq is supposed to last another 100yr and eventually turn into something big...did i understand correct?

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