Recycling of souls.

[agakhani_1]

So, in opinion Adam was Immature! well Khan saab I, do not agree with your above bold thinking!, that is true that we have many luxuries things which were not invented during Adam times. but there are many evidences just has found that shows that there were some smart brain peoples were also present.

As many believes Adam was born 5000-7000 years ago now read following ancient things which were present during that time! I have big list but I think few will enough to prove my point.

Ancient Airplane:-
A collection of historical records from ancient India that describe an array of incredible flying machines and weapons of a technological standard even more advanced than those in existence today. The oldest mention of these machines is found in the Sanskrit texts known as the Veda and date back to approximately 1,500BC. A modern translation reads: “jumping into space speedily with a craft using fire and water … containing twelve stamghas (pillars), one wheel, three machines, 300 pivots, and 60 instruments.” In the Ramayana texts there are references to flying machines that were used for the convenience of the ruling class.

In the Mahabharata texts there are descriptions of battle planes that fire missiles that use sound to find their target and beams of light that destroy anything they touch with their energy. Credit for these machines was attributed to the Yavanas who are believed to be the ancient Greek civilisations. In or around the early 1950’s a more modern text was made available. Called the Vaimanika Sastra (science of Aeronautics) it was allegedly the “inspired’ work of Subbaraya Shastry who claimed it was based on the writings of the great sage Bharadwaja thus giving authenticity to the scientific claims. The picture is a concept drawing based on the written descriptions in the texts. However, it could equally well describe the Russian concept rocket depicted on the adjacent stamp. It is also worth noting that there are claims that the 1960’s Russian scientists took a deep interest in the Vimana phenomenon and strangely it is around this time that they made significant leaps forward in their technological achievements. Still, this is probably just a coincidence. Vimana are not unique to India and there are references from all over the world and include the Egyptian Saqqara Bird, the pre-Columbian golden airplane models, the Greek Icarus legend, the Chariot of Ezekiel, the Nazca runways (lines), The Abydos carvings, The Tassili rock paintings from Algeria and the Chinese references to Lu Ban’s wooden aircraft that flew great distances. Naturally, these references are often dismissed by modern historians as simply impossible but there can be no doubt that humanity has a collective memory of have once been able to fly in ancient times. Is this a coincidence based on the worldwide wishful thinking of past civilisations or is it a recollection of when it was actually possible. You must decide for yourself.

Egyptian has built pyramids long time ago.

The Egyptians also invented and used many simple machines, such as the ramp to aid construction processes. They were among the first to extract gold by large-scale mining using fire-setting, and the first recognisable map, the Turin papyrus shows the plan of one such mine in Nubia.

Greek and Hellenistic:

Greek and Hellenistic engineers invented many technologies and improved upon pre-existing technologies, particularly during the Hellenistic period. Heron of Alexandria invented a basic steam engine and demonstrated knowledge of mechanic and pneumatic systems. Archimedes invented several machines. The Greeks were unique in pre-industrial times in their ability to combine scientific research with the development of new technologies. One example is the Archimedean screw; this technology was first conceptualized in mathematics, then built. Other technologies invented by Greek scientists include the ballistae, the piston pump, and primitive analog computers like the Antikythera mechanism. Greek architects were responsible for the first true domes, and were the first to explore the Golden ratio and its relationship with geometry and architecture.

[Admin]

We are talking of the period when Adam was almost alone on earth. Not the period of the last Adam

The thread is on souls and their development.

[junglikhan4]

What energy or power brain needs to function?

[junglikhan4]

Is your soul more happy than Adam's in his time.

Comparison has to be made not in term of comfort but in term of happiness.

An intelligent person is one that knows how to be happier tomorrow more than today but are we really happier then Adam or people in his time? we may be more comfortable but happier? I doubt...

God gives to man what he has been asked for. More people ask for comfort, less for happiness because people mix both concepts and they end up miserably lonely and sad.

Reply,

We are discussing about slow pace of progress at time of Adam. The brains were not sharp and deep thinking as today's generation has. You raised the question of happiness and content. I ask you, what made Cain to kill Abel, though both were sons of Adam. That happened because of religious activity. One's sacrifice was accepted and others was rejected. That was discontent and unhappiness.

[Admin]

I ask you, what made Cain to kill Abel, though both were sons of Adam. That happened because of religious activity. One's sacrifice was accepted and others was rejected. That was discontent and unhappiness.

This is subject to interpretation. God was asking for sacrifice of products from the earth such as vegetable when the people were in agriculture. Then God changed the dasond when people started to raise animals. Abel gave some animals in Dassond (tithe) so his offering was accepted as it followed the new Farmans.

Caen followed his old way of doing though he could have given animals in Dasond, he preferred to give vegetable as his soul was less elevated and he disobeyed the recent Farmans (yes for your info, I am anti-vegetarian) so his offering was not accepted.

Caen became jealous, unable to see his own mis-interpretation( of the Farmans) and killed his brother. Anyway, all this is biblical. It is linked to the elevation of each person's soul and their willingness to accept Farmans. It has nothing to do with the question of happiness.

So lets come back to the basic of this discussion.

[junglikhan4]

So, in opinion Adam was Immature! well Khan saab I, do not agree with your above bold thinking!, that is true that we have many luxuries things which were not invented during Adam times. but there are many evidences just has found that shows that there were some smart brain peoples were also present.

As many believes Adam was born 5000-7000 years ago now read following ancient things which were present during that time! I have big list but I think few will enough to prove my point.

Ancient Airplane:-
A collection of historical records from ancient India that describe an array of incredible flying machines and weapons of a technological standard even more advanced than those in existence today. The oldest mention of these machines is found in the Sanskrit texts known as the Veda and date back to approximately 1,500BC. A modern translation reads: “jumping into space speedily with a craft using fire and water … containing twelve stamghas (pillars), one wheel, three machines, 300 pivots, and 60 instruments.” In the Ramayana texts there are references to flying machines that were used for the convenience of the ruling class.

In the Mahabharata texts there are descriptions of battle planes that fire missiles that use sound to find their target and beams of light that destroy anything they touch with their energy. Credit for these machines was attributed to the Yavanas who are believed to be the ancient Greek civilisations. In or around the early 1950’s a more modern text was made available. Called the Vaimanika Sastra (science of Aeronautics) it was allegedly the “inspired’ work of Subbaraya Shastry who claimed it was based on the writings of the great sage Bharadwaja thus giving authenticity to the scientific claims. The picture is a concept drawing based on the written descriptions in the texts. However, it could equally well describe the Russian concept rocket depicted on the adjacent stamp. It is also worth noting that there are claims that the 1960’s Russian scientists took a deep interest in the Vimana phenomenon and strangely it is around this time that they made significant leaps forward in their technological achievements. Still, this is probably just a coincidence. Vimana are not unique to India and there are references from all over the world and include the Egyptian Saqqara Bird, the pre-Columbian golden airplane models, the Greek Icarus legend, the Chariot of Ezekiel, the Nazca runways (lines), The Abydos carvings, The Tassili rock paintings from Algeria and the Chinese references to Lu Ban’s wooden aircraft that flew great distances. Naturally, these references are often dismissed by modern historians as simply impossible but there can be no doubt that humanity has a collective memory of have once been able to fly in ancient times. Is this a coincidence based on the worldwide wishful thinking of past civilisations or is it a recollection of when it was actually possible. You must decide for yourself.

Egyptian has built pyramids long time ago.

The Egyptians also invented and used many simple machines, such as the ramp to aid construction processes. They were among the first to extract gold by large-scale mining using fire-setting, and the first recognisable map, the Turin papyrus shows the plan of one such mine in Nubia.

Greek and Hellenistic:

Greek and Hellenistic engineers invented many technologies and improved upon pre-existing technologies, particularly during the Hellenistic period. Heron of Alexandria invented a basic steam engine and demonstrated knowledge of mechanic and pneumatic systems. Archimedes invented several machines. The Greeks were unique in pre-industrial times in their ability to combine scientific research with the development of new technologies. One example is the Archimedean screw; this technology was first conceptualized in mathematics, then built. Other technologies invented by Greek scientists include the ballistae, the piston pump, and primitive analog computers like the Antikythera mechanism. Greek architects were responsible for the first true domes, and were the first to explore the Golden ratio and its relationship with geometry and architecture.

Reply,

It is a good piece of information.
You are aware that Ramayan and Maha Bharta both books are pen works of different writers in different times. Last addition of stories were about 700/800 years back.I completed reading of Ramayan, Maha Bharta, Alfu Lailah, Hatim Tai, Dastan Amir Hamza, Gul e Bakawali. and others at my young age. Later on, technically I found many similiarities in these books though names are different. The technology which you mentioned in Ramayan and Maha Bharta can be found in those other books too. In my opinion it was imagination of writers of that time, which is now translated in TV serials and Hollywood or Bollywood movies. May be movie writers borrowed these ideas from old books. Take example of star track serials or star war movies or super/bat/iron/ant men serials and other scientific movies. Even NASA and Pentagon has adopted the star war imagination from old books and movies. Now the modern warfare is used from skies. The modern wars are fought from skies and on computers.

[agakhani_1]

Oh yaa!
What is your answer about quran?
Forget about changes in RAMAYAN and MAHABHARAT! also forget about Greek and Jarsthosti literature which are way older than Quran. Butbut many scholaras believes that Quran was never ever reveled on Prophet!?Prophet Mohd had made all coping it from Toret,Jaboor and Bible!?
Yaha int ka jawab patther se hai!

[Admin]

There is no need to fight., Quran was revealed and this is confirm in all Farmans and our Ismaili Constitution.

The compilation by Usman is another subject and has been discussed in another thread.

Please let us not criticise here the beliefs and the holy books of our Ahl-al Kitab brothers because ultimately they are People of the Book, it is one Book... Be it Gita, Torah. Tao whatever brought by any Prophets sent by Allah is part of ONE Book.

[junglikhan4]

I ask you, what made Cain to kill Abel, though both were sons of Adam. That happened because of religious activity. One's sacrifice was accepted and others was rejected. That was discontent and unhappiness.

This is subject to interpretation. God was asking for sacrifice of products from the earth such as vegetable when the people were in agriculture. Then God changed the dasond when people started to raise animals. Abel gave some animals in Dassond (tithe) so his offering was accepted as it followed the new Farmans.

Caen followed his old way of doing though he could have given animals in Dasond, he preferred to give vegetable as his soul was less elevated and he disobeyed the recent Farmans (yes for your info, I am anti-vegetarian) so his offering was not accepted.

Caen became jealous, unable to see his own mis-interpretation( of the Farmans) and killed his brother. Anyway, all this is biblical. It is linked to the elevation of each person's soul and their willingness to accept Farmans. It has nothing to do with the question of happiness.

So lets come back to the basic of this discussion.

Reply,

Did God made statues of animals beside statue of Adam. Was that part and parcel of prostration. Within 30/40 years of time God changed the idea of dasond from agriculture to animal sacrifices. By the way Cain and Abel story is mentiond in Quran also.

[agakhani_1]

During the time of Prophet Mohd peoples used give ushr in form of animals like goat, camel e.t.c. and some peoples used to give dasond to Mowla Ali in form of animals, dates tree and crops.
In North Gujarat where I born my parents used to give wheat as a dasond! Leaders collect it sell it and send curency to higher authorities.
So what is wrong in it? no matter which form you give dasond it always reach to Mowla whether it is in currency, animals, vegetables or in form of commodity!
Forgeted one thing you can send your regional animal yaak as a...... Cuz dasond is only for Ismailis

[junglikhan4]

During the time of Prophet Mohd peoples used give ushr in form of animals like goat, camel e.t.c. and some peoples used to give dasond to Mowla Ali in form of animals, dates tree and crops.
In North Gujarat where I born my parents used to give wheat as a dasond! Leaders collect it sell it and send curency to higher authorities.
So what is wrong in it? no matter which form you give dasond it always reach to Mowla whether it is in currency, animals, vegetables or in form of commodity!
Forgeted one thing you can send your regional animal yaak as a...... Cuz dasond is only for Ismailis

Reply,

In this thread I am discussing the topic recycling of souls and related subjects.
Question of dasond was not induced by me here. I am interested in topics like, soul, noor, brain, spirituality so on.

[junglikhan4]

In Adam and Eve story,It is narrated that Eve gave birth to twins every day.
One boy and one girl. It is against the law of nature. A woman mostly give birth to a child averagely after 9 months. But in this story every day two children. When they grew up, one day's brother married to other day's sister and continued till there was substantial population. Does God had not a better idea?
In today's society this kind of marriage is not allowed and there is abhorrence for that kind of ritual. Any comment!

[agakhani_1]

It is narrated that Eve gave birth to twins every day.

It is not possible at all! give me detail where did you find out above information?

it might be after every delivery of Eve! because as per Quran Adam and Eve (?) lived 950 years!! ! now if you calculated days of 950 years then the total days comes 950x 365= 346.750.00 !! do you think Adam & Eve had that much twins?

As per Genesis:-
All we are told about Adam's offspring is that the first son was named Cain, the second son named Abel [Genesis 4:1-2 ], then after Abel's murder, another son named Seth was "begotten when Adam was 130 years old." After that, Adam "begot sons and daughters" [Genesis 5:3-4]. This same passage also tells us that Adam lived for 930 years [Genesis 5:5]. Therefore, according to Scripture, Adam and Eve's family consisted of sons Cain, Abel and Seth, plus a minimum of two other sons and two daughters, giving a total of seven children. However, accepting that Adam, and likely Eve, lived for 930 years, seven children would be the minimum number, but does this seem reasonable?

No, but off course Adam & Eve had not 346.750.00 twin that seems more logical to me.

In today's society this kind of marriage is not allowed and there is abhorrence for that kind of ritual. Any comment!

That is true that in today's society brother and sister marriages are not allowed but at the beginning of human being it was necessity! in these ancient days as afterwards it was condemned by the prohibitions of religion and though it was quite allowable in the earliest ages of the human race to marry one’s sister,

[agakhani_1]

In above calculations you may give some breaks on Adam and Eve"s earlier ages!
May be hundred years! Because Adam was 130 years old when his third son name Seth was born as per Genesis.

[junglikhan4]

It is narrated that Eve gave birth to twins every day.

It is not possible at all! give me detail where did you find out above information?

it might be after every delivery of Eve! because as per Quran Adam and Eve (?) lived 950 years!! ! now if you calculated days of 950 years then the total days comes 950x 365= 346.750.00 !! do you think Adam & Eve had that much twins?

As per Genesis:-
All we are told about Adam's offspring is that the first son was named Cain, the second son named Abel [Genesis 4:1-2 ], then after Abel's murder, another son named Seth was "begotten when Adam was 130 years old." After that, Adam "begot sons and daughters" [Genesis 5:3-4]. This same passage also tells us that Adam lived for 930 years [Genesis 5:5]. Therefore, according to Scripture, Adam and Eve's family consisted of sons Cain, Abel and Seth, plus a minimum of two other sons and two daughters, giving a total of seven children. However, accepting that Adam, and likely Eve, lived for 930 years, seven children would be the minimum number, but does this seem reasonable?

No, but off course Adam & Eve had not 346.750.00 twin that seems more logical to me.

In today's society this kind of marriage is not allowed and there is abhorrence for that kind of ritual. Any comment!

That is true that in today's society brother and sister marriages are not allowed but at the beginning of human being it was necessity! in these ancient days as afterwards it was condemned by the prohibitions of religion and though it was quite allowable in the earliest ages of the human race to marry one’s sister,

Reply,

After how many years later Eve was born, when God made statue of Adam.
Eve's mother was Adam. It was the man who gave birth to woman.
Adam and Eve lived in paradise say for 100 years( give them break ) and paid no rent and utility bills. God threw them out of paradise. A point to be noted that Eve did not gave birth to any child in paradise, other wise child should have been the permanent citizen of Paradise and it should have been hard to deport the child.
AK, you wrote that Adam had total 7 children. One was killed leaving 6 means 3 sets of brother and sisters left for future production of children.
Ak, a question popped up in my imagination, say one brother disputed to marry sister of other day, and said I want to marry ASHA instead of USHA.
Now what, was there any dual gun fight between two brothers like 100 years back in Texas?

[agakhani_1]

Just give us where did you find out that ADAM and Eve used to give birth of twins every day?
About 7 childrens of Adam and Eve is quoted in Genesis as per my knowledge in Quran Allah just mentioning about Adam"s age but he has not mentioned how many childrens this couple had!(?) that is amazing how Allah has forgotten to mentioned that figure! to his first child on earth and whom he thrown out from heaven (if there is one ):roll:

[junglikhan4]

Just give us where did you find out that ADAM and Eve used to give birth of twins every day?
About 7 childrens of Adam and Eve is quoted in Genesis as per my knowledge in Quran Allah just mentioning about Adam"s age but he has not mentioned how many childrens this couple had!(?) that is amazing how Allah has forgotten to mentioned that figure! to his first child on earth and whom he thrown out from heaven (if there is one ):roll:

Reply,

Yeh me(n) ney nahi kaha, kitabu(n) me(n) likha hai yaro.
Sorry, Sorry, I used your wordings.

[agakhani_1]

Ok suggest me names those books, that is fine with me

[junglikhan4]

Ok suggest me names those books, that is fine with me

Ibn e Katheer ( stories of prophets )
Saheeh Bukhari.

[junglikhan4]

Please fill in blank;
God made Adam in his image.
God made Eve in -------- image.

[agakhani_1]

God made Eve in -------- image.

God made Eve's image just exactly image of "BIBI FATIMA" !!! any Question for that?
I have many proofs to prove my above saing but why don't you research your shelf! I can suggest some history books for you for quick references read the history books of Islam specially written by Shia authors plus
read" Shirat un nabi," a Sunny author !!!!
Hazarat Bibi Fatemah (s.a.) and Bage- E-Fidaq
also available in Arabic.
History of H. Ali (s.a.) available in many languages!
Ginans specially composed by Syed Imamshah, Pir Sadardin, and Pir Shamsh.


I have many books in pipe line to suggest but read these books first.
Read these books ! before asking another questions in these three books I think you will receive the all the answers of your all questions!!, if not then I will suggest some more books.

[junglikhan4]

God made Eve in -------- image.

God made Eve's image just exactly image of "BIBI FATIMA" !!! any Question for that?
I have many proofs to prove my above saing but why don't you research your shelf! I can suggest some history books for you for quick references read the history books of Islam specially written by Shia authors plus
read" Shirat un nabi," a Sunny author !!!!
Hazarat Bibi Fatemah (s.a.) and Bage- E-Fidaq
also available in Arabic.
History of H. Ali (s.a.) available in many languages!
Ginans specially composed by Syed Imamshah, Pir Sadardin, and Pir Shamsh.


I have many books in pipe line to suggest but read these books first.
Read these books ! before asking another questions in these three books I think you will receive the all the answers of your all questions!!, if not then I will suggest some more books.

Reply,

What a deep deep thinking and research !!
Eve in image of bibi Fatima so Ali as Adam in image of Allah, whose statue was made by Allah as Adam.
I have read seertun Nabi by Shibli noamani and there is no such mention of Eve in image of bibi Fatima.

In above post you have not mentioned the names of books, authors, year of publication, which institution published and page numbers.

[agakhani_1]

There are many Sirats books available in many languages on prophet Mohd and on Islam's history not necessarily you have to read Nomani's book.

[zznoor]

There are many Sirats books available in many languages on prophet Mohd and on Islam's history not necessarily you have to read Nomani's book.

There is no description of Bibi Hawaa (Eve) in any Ahadis. So why speculate about who she resembled!!!!!

Does anybody know how Bibi Fatema looke?

Kuch Kama ki Bate karo.

[zznoor]

Here is a simple way to know if your post is acceptable:

Ask yourself this question "Will my post bring something of value to my fellow Ismailis or to humanity at large? Is my post going to be of value now or in the future? Is it adding anything new to the knowledge already available on this Forum? Am I making sure that it will not be offensive and unnecessarily hurt others?

[zznoor]

Admin wrot somewhere

You do not see all the post. I delete also posts by Nuseiri, Agakhani and many others, even post against you when they contain profaniy or posts which are not following the thread and I will do the same for yours. The rules of posting are clearly marked. There is no exception, there is only discretion icon_wink.gif

You missed this one from Ak or may be you approve it

[nuseri]

Ya Ali Madad.
Just digging into past era data and speculating of it.It is an escapist or historian job.
They ADD ZERO value to what is needed.
I feel IF all is told to post what MHI say n not even past Imams ans stick to rituals held in JK with no copy paste allowed of any sort allowed.
To post n debate of today's ground reality n need for the future with reference from science n MHI Speeches n Farmans.
It will GIVE contentment for today n relief n bliss for tomorrow.
Copy pasting the past era and trying to impress to behave n act in those way
is a frustration n punishment n insult to modern educated mindsets of Today.
If only current status is allowed 90% of the forum members will feel like 'Thullas'( or fish out of water) and unwanted parrots of past era history ( dead n gone).

[agakhani_1]

Does anybody know how Bibi Fatema looke?

Kuch Kama ki Bate karo.

Chalo bhai kuchh kam ki bate karte hai!!

About BIBI Fatema:-


The Best Woman:

Fatimah is famous and acknowledged as the “Sayyidatu nisa’i ‘l-’alamin”(Leader of all the women of the world for all times) because the Prophethood of Muhammad would not have been everlasting without her.

The Prophet is the perfect example for men. But could not be so for women. For all the verses revealed in the Holy Qur’an for women, Fatimah is the perfect model, whotranslated every verse into action. In her lifetime, she was a complete woman,being Daughter, Wife and Mother at the same time.As a daughter, she loved her parents so much, that she won their love and regard to such an extent that the Holy Prophet used to rise, whenever she came near him. As a wife, she was very devoted. she never asked Hazrat ‘Ali (A.S) for anything in her whole life. As a mother, she cared for and brought up wonderful children; they have left their marks on the face of the world, which time will not be able to erase.

[agakhani_1]

Kam ki baate part :2

How Bibi Fatima looks a like:

Imam Hasan Askari(a.s.) reported that his father quoted Jabir Ibn Abdullah as saying : ' The Messenger of Allah, Peace be Upon him and his cleansed progeny, said : ' When Allah created Adam and Eve, they strutted through paradise and said : ' Who are better than we ? At that moment they noticed an image of a girl like they had never seen before; from this girl came an illuminating light so bright that it almost blinded the eyes.
They said : ' O Lord, what is this ? ' He answered : ' This is the Image of Fatima(s.a.), the mistress of your women descendants. '

[zznoor]

Kam ki baate part :2

How Bibi Fatima looks a like:

Imam Hasan Askari(a.s.) reported that his father quoted Jabir Ibn Abdullah as saying : ' The Messenger of Allah, Peace be Upon him and his cleansed progeny, said : ' When Allah created Adam and Eve, they strutted through paradise and said : ' Who are better than we ? At that moment they noticed an image of a girl like they had never seen before; from this girl came an illuminating light so bright that it almost blinded the eyes.
They said : ' O Lord, what is this ? ' He answered : ' This is the Image of Fatima(s.a.), the mistress of your women descendants. '

Imam Hasan Askari(R.A.) was 11th ithnashari imam. A person who does not believe in any Hadith except one supporting Ismaili religion, why try to prove point quoting 12ver Hadith. There are millions of such stories. Do you really believe in Imam Asksri?
You are not even willing to go to 12ver mosque claiming they recite their name in Namaz (you are wrong there too)

Just to put this to rest I will agree that Bibi Hawaa and Bibi Fatema looked alike. Be happy, you won.
Allah knows best