An article by Imam Hazrat Mowlana Sultan Mahomed Shah (s.a.s.)
Source: Africa Ismaili Kisumu Supplement, March 28, 1969
The Christian burial ceremony and the prayers then said by the presiding ecclesiastics refer to resurrection in a way that implies some kind of similarity with the supposed historical resurrection of Christ three days after his death. There is the undoubted implication in the Burial Service that a similar resurrection will in time be the fate of those who die in Christianity.
Whether any other religion accepts such a definite (and, if I may say so, materialistic) conception of life eternal and immortality, I am not sure. The Buddhists and Brahmans certainly believe in some kind of survival, but that is very often allied to the idea of trans-migration of souls from animals to men and angels or still higher beings in the spiritual world of those faiths.
The Islamic conception is, however, different from the extreme materialistic idea of a live body, similar to the man as he was in life, getting up from his utter destructibility, to form a body with all the nervous and other forces that control our existence in this world. Such an idea does not appeal to those who have not been brought up from childhood in the personal Faith of the Resurrection of the Master.
The Hindu and Buddhistic explanations of life after death, with always the influence of the soul taking forms either much lower, such as the lowest animals, or much higher, like some so-called Gods of both Brahmanism and Buddhism, seem to many brought up outside their immemorial tradition as more a hope and pious wish than anything founded on fact.
Now if we turn to the Catholic religion we see immediately in all Catholic countries that St. Thomas Aquinas philosophy is still the foundation on which the Catholic Faith rests. I am not at all certain about the Church of England (as established at the time of the Reformation), that the branch of the Holy Catholic Church which appoints and crowns the Kings of England; for I have never been able to find out whether they also - like the more senior and universal Catholic Church of Rome - base their religious philosophy on the Aristotelian logic of St. Thomas.
For Muslims there has been a similar personal influence, and in many ways it resembles the position that St Thomas Aquinas took in the Catholic Church. First of all as regards the idea of divinity of God: a great deal of the Koran is taken up with God's intimate presence in the world, with the importance of each human being's relations with the Creator; but only in one chapter-the chapter on Light-is the nature of the divinity referred to in a very clear form. Although, of course, we do not believe that the person of the Creator is a form of light, either in waves or in the minutest association of myriads of points, yet the consequence of the light as seen in the universe, is the nearest we can imagine or hope to believe about the person of our Creator.
This was as far as Islamic theological thought went in the early years after the Prophet's death. But just as St. Thomas Aquinas came long after the beginning of the Christian era and laid the foundation of the philosophy of the Roman Catholic Church, so in the Muslim world the Spaniard Ibn-Rushd (known to the Europeans as Averroes) changed the Islamic outlook on the foundation of Faith. He switched it from reasoning, which he clearly showed was the work of the material brain and could never grasp spiritual truth, nor could spiritual truth ever be found by logic and science; it was an illumination and enlightenment directly given by the Creator to those who had the grace to receive it. But as Ibn-Rushd has consistnently shown, this spiritual knowledge, directly given, can be studied, learnt and followed by the whole Islamic mass of the population. It is a Muslim's highest duty, by intensive prayer and spiritual abandonment of self to the great universal Soul of the Universe, to get the supreme blessing of direct communion with Absolute Reality.
Just as the events of Easter Week become part of Christianity and the hope of men, so the death-bed scene of our Holy Prophet, so well authenticated by evidence, took place in the presence of his two cousins, Ali and Ibn-Abbas, his wives, and above all, his future great successor, the Caliph Omar, then one of his leading companions. All this evidence is exactly the same. The last words of the Prophet were "Companionship on High."
This is a third way of looking at survival after death (apart from the Biblical raising of the body, and from the indefinite and varied doctrines of the several Hindu schools of thought and the two great Buddhist Northern and Southern sects). It is the hope of all true Muslims, like their Prophet, namely, "Companionship on High."
Farmans of MHI(1957to 2004)-----REINCARNATION & REBIRTH
I have one thing to say, I understand quoting the Speeches of Mowlana Hazar Imam but how can you as an Ismaili, who has given bayyah to the Imam of the time, go around and quote his farmans online, I am speaking in particular about Yaahoo or w/e the screen name is. If you dont have the brains to know that Farmans are only ment for the spiritual children of the Imam then I dont think you know what you are talking about.
I think that there are two things that drive or causes for this:aminL wrote:I have one thing to say, I understand quoting the Speeches of Mowlana Hazar Imam but how can you as an Ismaili, who has given bayyah to the Imam of the time, go around and quote his farmans online, I am speaking in particular about Yaahoo or w/e the screen name is. If you dont have the brains to know that Farmans are only ment for the spiritual children of the Imam then I dont think you know what you are talking about.
1) The lag-time between when The Farman is given by The Imam and read in JKs elsewhere.
2) There are no print versions available to the Jamet in all JKs after 1979s, I am not talking about the ones locked in the Mukhi's tables, I am talking about in the library. And even the once that are in printer forms in the Mukhi's table or in the library are severely edited and I have seen some rewritten with spelling and grammatical errors.
I know I know the usual suspects are going to post reply to this, and disagree and I respect that but it is still the truth.
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star_munir
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kmaherali wrote:An article by Imam Hazrat Mowlana Sultan Mahomed Shah (s.a.s.)
Source: Africa Ismaili Kisumu Supplement, March 28, 1969
Whether any other religion accepts such a definite (and, if I may say so, materialistic) conception of life eternal and immortality, I am not sure. The Buddhists and Brahmans certainly believe in some kind of survival, but that is very often allied to the idea of trans-migration of souls from animals to men and angels or still higher beings in the spiritual world of those faiths.
The Islamic conception is, however, different from the extreme materialistic idea of a live body, similar to the man as he was in life, getting up from his utter destructibility, to form a body with all the nervous and other forces that control our existence in this world. Such an idea does not appeal to those who have not been brought up from childhood in the personal Faith of the Resurrection of the Master.
Just as the events of Easter Week become part of Christianity and the hope of men, so the death-bed scene of our Holy Prophet, so well authenticated by evidence, took place in the presence of his two cousins, Ali and Ibn-Abbas, his wives, and above all, his future great successor, the Caliph Omar, then one of his leading companions. All this evidence is exactly the same. The last words of the Prophet were "Companionship on High."
This is a third way of looking at survival after death (apart from the Biblical raising of the body, and from the indefinite and varied doctrines of the several Hindu schools of thought and the two great Buddhist Northern and Southern sects). It is the hope of all true Muslims, like their Prophet, namely, "Companionship on High."
Meticulous study of th contents of the above passage quoted by kamaherali does not seem to support his(kmaherali's) stand against reincarnation. The passage is not clear cut in that respect.
Kmaherali, will you please explain in simple English above paragraphs, particularly second and third ones, you qouted above?
These are not my words but those of the Imam. In these paragraphs the words are in plain English - that in contrast to the materialistic ideas of rebirth, Islamic belief is of eternal Companionship on High.alimack wrote:Meticulous study of th contents of the above passage quoted by kamaherali does not seem to support his(kmaherali's) stand against reincarnation. The passage is not clear cut in that respect.
Kmaherali, will you please explain in simple English above paragraphs, particularly second and third ones, you qouted above?
The Imam has also talked elsewhere on this issue and he was quite clear that there is no rebirth in the physical world.
"Obviously reborn means in a higher sphere than this earth. Without going to the final spiritual sphere there will be further triumph before the highest points are reached unless those highest points are reached in this world and on this earth by the general rules of the Ismaili faith beginning with kindness, gentleness, etc and going up to highest love of union with Imam."
Perhaps you can be more specific about what is ambiguous to you.
Ya Ali Madad,
I have been following this debate for a while.
Here are my thoughts re: rebirth vs. heaven/hell
I believe first of all that as long as we havent died (spirituall or physically), we never know what happens after death and are views will always be limited.
As for my thoughts on it, I thnk there is a combination of rebirth and further experiences in higher worlds / spheres.
I think that after death, the soul is judged, and it can undergo experiences in a different realm or world. The Quran indicates the both "heaven" and even "hell" can merely be temporary. I think that after death, the soul can experience these temporary states of heaven or hell. Or it can take rebirth in a higher sphere and earn more good karma for itself. Then following that...it can still take rebirth into the physical world. It may not make sense...but that what I think at this point.
Ofcourse, I beleive the Permanent Paradise is unity with the Universal Soul, and then even higher - unity with the Universal Intellect.
I have been following this debate for a while.
Here are my thoughts re: rebirth vs. heaven/hell
I believe first of all that as long as we havent died (spirituall or physically), we never know what happens after death and are views will always be limited.
As for my thoughts on it, I thnk there is a combination of rebirth and further experiences in higher worlds / spheres.
I think that after death, the soul is judged, and it can undergo experiences in a different realm or world. The Quran indicates the both "heaven" and even "hell" can merely be temporary. I think that after death, the soul can experience these temporary states of heaven or hell. Or it can take rebirth in a higher sphere and earn more good karma for itself. Then following that...it can still take rebirth into the physical world. It may not make sense...but that what I think at this point.
Ofcourse, I beleive the Permanent Paradise is unity with the Universal Soul, and then even higher - unity with the Universal Intellect.
People like me can not give same importance to the speech of an Imam to the level of Farmans.kmaherali wrote: These are not my words but those of the Imam. In these paragraphs the words are in plain English - that in contrast to the materialistic ideas of rebirth, Islamic belief is of eternal Companionship on High.
Speech to outside audience should be considered more as 'an oral document'. What I mean, these type of speeches are meant for that specific audience. So it is also important to know as to when and where a specific speech was delivered, and who were the audience.
Again when Imam talks to general public about Islamic belief, naturally, he takes into account the belief of general majority Muslims. And as we know, almost all Muslims (except Khoja Ismailis and Druze community) , which represent 99.5% of all the Muslims do not believe in reincarnation. And hence, Imam MSMS in his speech echoed their belief when refering to Islamic belief.
So to me and people like me, this speech can not be taken as an example in refuting reincarnation.
In response to one of the questions asked by a group of missionaries Mowlana Sultan Muhamad Shah stated the following regarding rebirth.
"Obviously reborn means in a higher sphere than this earth. Without going to the final spiritual sphere there will be further triumph before the highest points are reached unless those highest points are reached in this world and on this earth by the general rules of the Ismaili faith beginning with kindness, gentleness, etc and going up to highest love of union with Imam."
I do not think that a group of missionaries is an exoteric context. On the contrary it is very esoteric.
"Obviously reborn means in a higher sphere than this earth. Without going to the final spiritual sphere there will be further triumph before the highest points are reached unless those highest points are reached in this world and on this earth by the general rules of the Ismaili faith beginning with kindness, gentleness, etc and going up to highest love of union with Imam."
I do not think that a group of missionaries is an exoteric context. On the contrary it is very esoteric.
Rumi's perspective of rebirth as ever renewing love is given in the following poem.
No end to the journey
By Jelaluddin Rumi
(1207 - 1273)
No end, no end to the journey
no end, no end never
how can the heart in love
ever stop opening
if you love me,
you won't just die once
in every moment
you will die into me
to be reborn
Into this new love, die
your way begins
on the other side
become the sky
take an axe to the prison wall,
escape
walk out like someone
suddenly born into color
do it now
***
Where bliss begins
everything else ends.
No end to the journey
By Jelaluddin Rumi
(1207 - 1273)
No end, no end to the journey
no end, no end never
how can the heart in love
ever stop opening
if you love me,
you won't just die once
in every moment
you will die into me
to be reborn
Into this new love, die
your way begins
on the other side
become the sky
take an axe to the prison wall,
escape
walk out like someone
suddenly born into color
do it now
***
Where bliss begins
everything else ends.
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star_munir
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Nice reply Unnal Haq
and time for wake up your posts are not making any sense to all of us and it is showing ful of jealousy and hatred.
Seen you back here after few days shows on one side that you have no self respect, that even after getting banned again and again you still want to come here and on other hand shows how much you like this website that even after getting banned many times you try to come back with new user name for discussion..not discussion but for fight !
and time for wake up your posts are not making any sense to all of us and it is showing ful of jealousy and hatred.
Seen you back here after few days shows on one side that you have no self respect, that even after getting banned again and again you still want to come here and on other hand shows how much you like this website that even after getting banned many times you try to come back with new user name for discussion..not discussion but for fight !
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star_munir
- Posts: 1670
- Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 12:55 am
- Contact:
Read this and you all might be surprised by this !
'Reincarnated' murder victim gives evidence
[ Saturday, November 12, 2005 01:02:24 pmIANS ]
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LUCKNOW: Could a dead man, or rather his reincarnation, give evidence in his own murder case?
A six-year-old case of murder in Hathras town in western Uttar Pradesh has given rise to this million-dollar question following the deposition of a five-year-old boy, Durgesh.
Creating a sensation in the trial court Friday, he alleged that during his previous birth he was killed by his own friend Ved Prakash six years ago.
The statement has left everyone dumbfounded. Even the judiciary was at its wit's end, debating if a claim of reincarnation could be given legal sanctity.
Claiming that he was Mahipal in his previous birth, Durgesh told the court that he was strangulated by Ved Prakash. He also attributed Ved Prakash's illicit relations with his wife as the root cause of his murder.
Opinion on the issue was however divided.
Public Prosecutor Sahib Singh Chauhan described it is "clinching evidence" against Ved Prakash.
However, strongly refuting the claim, defence counsel Rajiv Tiwari was of the view that "rebirth has no legal sanctity under any law". He accused the prosecution of "tutoring" the boy.
While deferring the judgement, the court has asked the prosecution to produce the legal provisions relating to reincarnation if any.
'Reincarnated' murder victim gives evidence
[ Saturday, November 12, 2005 01:02:24 pmIANS ]
Citibank NRI Offer
LUCKNOW: Could a dead man, or rather his reincarnation, give evidence in his own murder case?
A six-year-old case of murder in Hathras town in western Uttar Pradesh has given rise to this million-dollar question following the deposition of a five-year-old boy, Durgesh.
Creating a sensation in the trial court Friday, he alleged that during his previous birth he was killed by his own friend Ved Prakash six years ago.
The statement has left everyone dumbfounded. Even the judiciary was at its wit's end, debating if a claim of reincarnation could be given legal sanctity.
Claiming that he was Mahipal in his previous birth, Durgesh told the court that he was strangulated by Ved Prakash. He also attributed Ved Prakash's illicit relations with his wife as the root cause of his murder.
Opinion on the issue was however divided.
Public Prosecutor Sahib Singh Chauhan described it is "clinching evidence" against Ved Prakash.
However, strongly refuting the claim, defence counsel Rajiv Tiwari was of the view that "rebirth has no legal sanctity under any law". He accused the prosecution of "tutoring" the boy.
While deferring the judgement, the court has asked the prosecution to produce the legal provisions relating to reincarnation if any.
The story is interesting! I do not believe in reincarnation, but those who believe in it say that reincarnation occurs after many many years. It just does not happen right away.
My take on this issue is that the child has gotten possesed by the spirit of the murdered person. Children are vulnerable to such invasions by the spirits.
My take on this issue is that the child has gotten possesed by the spirit of the murdered person. Children are vulnerable to such invasions by the spirits.
rebirth
After reading some of the posts I do not know what to believe. I have so far in life just heard what others have said and analyzed it. Some have made a point that after one dies they don’t come back into the world, instead one just cleanses their soul and joins into God. Well, what if cleansing ones soul means coming back to the world and recognizing god? I just thought I would throw my thought out there.
Karim,kmaherali wrote:In response to one of the questions asked by a group of missionaries Mowlana Sultan Muhamad Shah stated the following regarding rebirth.
"Obviously reborn means in a higher sphere than this earth. Without going to the final spiritual sphere there will be further triumph before the highest points are reached unless those highest points are reached in this world and on this earth by the general rules of the Ismaili faith beginning with kindness, gentleness, etc and going up to highest love of union with Imam."
I do not think that a group of missionaries is an exoteric context. On the contrary it is very esoteric.
Read the complete Farman MHI made in Lahore where the oft half quoted line "life is but a short passage through eternity" comes from...MHI said a few more things after that.
Shams
Shams,ShamsB wrote:Karim,
Read the complete Farman MHI made in Lahore where the oft half quoted line "life is but a short passage through eternity" comes from...MHI said a few more things after that.
Shams
We have been through this before and I think it is best if we agree to disagree on this one.
Karim
What do you think of these verses? They seem to refute reincarnation to me!
023.098 And I seek refuge in Thee, my Lord, lest they be present with me,
023.099 Until, when death cometh unto one of them, he saith: My Lord! Send me back,
023.100 That I may do right in that which I have left behind! But nay! It is but a word that he speaketh; and behind them is a barrier until the day when they are raised.
023.101 And when the trumpet is blown there will be no kinship among them that day, nor will they ask of one another.
Specifically verses 99-100 here: The dead ask to be sent back and God says "Nay"
002.028 How disbelieve ye in Allah when ye were dead and He gave life to you! Then He will give you death, then life again, and then unto Him ye will return.
This verse here, doens't follow the cycle of reincarnation: it says you die and then are given life again and then return to God, it doesn't say you die again and then return to God, so after the rebirth you return to God
044.058 And We have made (this Scripture) easy in thy language only that they may heed.
This verse shows that the Qur'an was revealed in a way and form that was easy to understand for the people of that time. Thus the meanings were simple for the average person to comprehend.
[/b]
023.098 And I seek refuge in Thee, my Lord, lest they be present with me,
023.099 Until, when death cometh unto one of them, he saith: My Lord! Send me back,
023.100 That I may do right in that which I have left behind! But nay! It is but a word that he speaketh; and behind them is a barrier until the day when they are raised.
023.101 And when the trumpet is blown there will be no kinship among them that day, nor will they ask of one another.
Specifically verses 99-100 here: The dead ask to be sent back and God says "Nay"
002.028 How disbelieve ye in Allah when ye were dead and He gave life to you! Then He will give you death, then life again, and then unto Him ye will return.
This verse here, doens't follow the cycle of reincarnation: it says you die and then are given life again and then return to God, it doesn't say you die again and then return to God, so after the rebirth you return to God
044.058 And We have made (this Scripture) easy in thy language only that they may heed.
This verse shows that the Qur'an was revealed in a way and form that was easy to understand for the people of that time. Thus the meanings were simple for the average person to comprehend.
[/b]
RE birth- This is a very complex issue. I would quote SMS farman of 1903 Kalame Imame Mubin where He states that - paraphrasing- " You were originally a part of smallest particle ( smaller than atom - ZARAA-), from there you came down and took different forms of life. Now you have come in this human form. Your destiny is to reach the ultimate goal of Allah's noor - asal maa waasal-. This you can do in this life, by learning to die during your life time. ( in bandagi) This does not mean that you should commit suicide. By committing suicide you will fall into the trap of rebirth ( awataaras) and will not find your destiny"
What is dying in this life ? It means you can control your soul by spiritual progress to leave this body at will and return. This can be achieved by progress in Bandagi. Bandagi literally means 'complete submission to the master just as a slave submits to his master. Bandagi word has derived from ABDULLAH, the slave of Allah. Abd is verbalised as banda and bandagi if act of submission. Our bandagi is searching who we are and ultimately submission of our thoughts and actions in his feet.
Baityul Khayal means - the house of thought. In bandagi we submit or devote our thoughts on one and single purpose' to know" who we are and uiltimately know Allah' This is what is meant by know yourself and you will know God" THis is why a Bol is given to us to concentrate on that Bol and understand the meaning of Bol. By this concentration we can break the veil of this material world and go into the spiritual side.
Mowlana SMS has very beautifully said in His memoirs that " This brain is made of material things. Thereforte it can not fathom the spiritual side. As soon as you think it becomes matrialistic and the spiritual aspect is lost. In Spiritualism you cannot talk or think by this materialistic brain, but communicate by telepathy. I will leave this here. If you need more clatrification please let me know.
Word Ibadat is also derived from " Abd" . This ibadat means actions and physical prayers. Ginan
" Din uge karo dharamasu dhandhaa; saanj pade thay raho sahebji kaa bandaa. "
As human beings we can not be 100 % dharamdsu dhandhaa. But by remembering Allah contantly we are guided to the right actions.
What is dying in this life ? It means you can control your soul by spiritual progress to leave this body at will and return. This can be achieved by progress in Bandagi. Bandagi literally means 'complete submission to the master just as a slave submits to his master. Bandagi word has derived from ABDULLAH, the slave of Allah. Abd is verbalised as banda and bandagi if act of submission. Our bandagi is searching who we are and ultimately submission of our thoughts and actions in his feet.
Baityul Khayal means - the house of thought. In bandagi we submit or devote our thoughts on one and single purpose' to know" who we are and uiltimately know Allah' This is what is meant by know yourself and you will know God" THis is why a Bol is given to us to concentrate on that Bol and understand the meaning of Bol. By this concentration we can break the veil of this material world and go into the spiritual side.
Mowlana SMS has very beautifully said in His memoirs that " This brain is made of material things. Thereforte it can not fathom the spiritual side. As soon as you think it becomes matrialistic and the spiritual aspect is lost. In Spiritualism you cannot talk or think by this materialistic brain, but communicate by telepathy. I will leave this here. If you need more clatrification please let me know.
Word Ibadat is also derived from " Abd" . This ibadat means actions and physical prayers. Ginan
" Din uge karo dharamasu dhandhaa; saanj pade thay raho sahebji kaa bandaa. "
As human beings we can not be 100 % dharamdsu dhandhaa. But by remembering Allah contantly we are guided to the right actions.
I just sent a message and found two more simultaneously.
Let us try too understand the journey of soul.
What is said in Quran is correct.
To obtain a University degree we have to start at kindergarten to primary to secondary , and higher to University. Having received a degrss does not mean that I know everything. This is just a KEY to open the door of knowledge. For understanding we need "WISDOM" and common sense. Before we reach the peak we have to go through a multiple of phases and success is not guaramnteed. Only our action and behavious with proper environment we may reach the peak.
Similarly we have to progress in spiritual life. All heavens and hells are in this living form - on this planet. THe only status beyond this planet is FANNAH FI ALLAH. THis life is but a dream. If you follow Ginans Pir Hassan Kabirdeen , Pir Sadardeen and to some extent Pir Shamsh, theyt have given full description of the process of LIFE. We are guiven 84 lakh 8.4 million lives. 21 lakh in water, 212 lakh on water and combination of earth , 21 lakh in the air and 21 lakh on the earth.
We are given total of 84 Human lives of which 8 are in this Kaljug.
Each human life can complete mission to reach destiny either in one life or proceed through 8 lives. Allah may grant more lives if we have progressed sufficiently as He is most merciful and wishes all souls reach their destiny before the the Day of Judgement - Qayamat.
Each soul will be called upon on that day with their IMAM.
(PIR-SHAH)-[ Prophet & Imam]
Let us try too understand the journey of soul.
What is said in Quran is correct.
To obtain a University degree we have to start at kindergarten to primary to secondary , and higher to University. Having received a degrss does not mean that I know everything. This is just a KEY to open the door of knowledge. For understanding we need "WISDOM" and common sense. Before we reach the peak we have to go through a multiple of phases and success is not guaramnteed. Only our action and behavious with proper environment we may reach the peak.
Similarly we have to progress in spiritual life. All heavens and hells are in this living form - on this planet. THe only status beyond this planet is FANNAH FI ALLAH. THis life is but a dream. If you follow Ginans Pir Hassan Kabirdeen , Pir Sadardeen and to some extent Pir Shamsh, theyt have given full description of the process of LIFE. We are guiven 84 lakh 8.4 million lives. 21 lakh in water, 212 lakh on water and combination of earth , 21 lakh in the air and 21 lakh on the earth.
We are given total of 84 Human lives of which 8 are in this Kaljug.
Each human life can complete mission to reach destiny either in one life or proceed through 8 lives. Allah may grant more lives if we have progressed sufficiently as He is most merciful and wishes all souls reach their destiny before the the Day of Judgement - Qayamat.
Each soul will be called upon on that day with their IMAM.
(PIR-SHAH)-[ Prophet & Imam]
Yes, 23 or 27 times Quoted in Quran as per many scholars including late Rai Abu Ali, if you not agree with them then you must have to read Quran but to put here all 23 or 27 ayas ( I am not pretty sure ) here is time consuming thing and it is not possible for me as a busy person honestly this is not an excuse but I have collected all when I read Quran completely last time as per my little ability and knowledge.
Meanwhile you can read following links , there are also many websites floating on internet but you have to decide it is trust able or not?
http://reincarnationquran.wordpress.com/
and here is another Ismaili.net link
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... carnations
Meanwhile you can read following links , there are also many websites floating on internet but you have to decide it is trust able or not?
http://reincarnationquran.wordpress.com/
and here is another Ismaili.net link
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... carnations
Is it possible that those references in the Qur'an are to be interpreted in an esoteric manner and not to be taken literally?agakhani wrote:Yes, 23 or 27 times Quoted in Quran as per many scholars including late Rai Abu Ali, if you not agree with them then you must have to read Quran but to put here all 23 or 27 ayas ( I am not pretty sure ) here is time consuming thing and it is not possible for me as a busy person honestly this is not an excuse but I have collected all when I read Quran completely last time as per my little ability and knowledge.
Meanwhile you can read following links , there are also many websites floating on internet but you have to decide it is trust able or not?
http://reincarnationquran.wordpress.com/
and here is another Ismaili.net link
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... carnations
I would just take one Aya quoted by fmitha Posted: 28 Nov 2005 06:46 am
[Pickthal 23:97] And say: My Lord! I seek refuge in Thee from suggestions of the evil ones,
[Pickthal 23:98] And I seek refuge in Thee, my Lord, lest they be present with me,
[Pickthal 23:99] Until, when death cometh unto one of them, he saith: My Lord! Send me back,
[Pickthal 23:100] That I may do right in that which I have left behind! But nay! It is but a word that he speaketh; and behind them is a barrier until the day when they are raised.
It is apparent this is not about reincarnation.
One has to read in what context Aya was revealed, what is happening before and after Aya.
Half hadithing, half Ayating and out of context is done to creat confusion.
Now read from 23:97 to 23:100Until, when death cometh unto one of them, he saith: My Lord! Send me back,
[Pickthal 23:97] And say: My Lord! I seek refuge in Thee from suggestions of the evil ones,
[Pickthal 23:98] And I seek refuge in Thee, my Lord, lest they be present with me,
[Pickthal 23:99] Until, when death cometh unto one of them, he saith: My Lord! Send me back,
[Pickthal 23:100] That I may do right in that which I have left behind! But nay! It is but a word that he speaketh; and behind them is a barrier until the day when they are raised.
It is apparent this is not about reincarnation.
One has to read in what context Aya was revealed, what is happening before and after Aya.
Half hadithing, half Ayating and out of context is done to creat confusion.
zznoor wrote:I would just take one Aya quoted by fmitha Posted: 28 Nov 2005 06:46 am
Now read from 23:97 to 23:100Until, when death cometh unto one of them, he saith: My Lord! Send me back,
[Pickthal 23:97] And say: My Lord! I seek refuge in Thee from suggestions of the evil ones,
[Pickthal 23:98] And I seek refuge in Thee, my Lord, lest they be present with me,
[Pickthal 23:99] Until, when death cometh unto one of them, he saith: My Lord! Send me back,
[Pickthal 23:100] That I may do right in that which I have left behind! But nay! It is but a word that he speaketh; and behind them is a barrier until the day when they are raised.
It is apparent this is not about reincarnation.
One has to read in what context Aya was revealed, what is happening before and after Aya.
Half hadithing, half Ayating and out of context is done to creat confusion.
Allah in the Quran says He is Just (ADL) - also one of his 99 Names and He is Merciful and Beneficent.
Based upon this - and solely this - everyone should be born equal - every child should be born healthy - with no medical issues and every human being should have the same opportunities as the other.
But yet this isn't so...
So how is Allah JUST when one child is born into a royal family, or to the Ambanis or Bill Gates of the world and another child is born at the same moment to a beggar on the streets who uses a stone to cut the umbilical cord...
If that selection is Random - then how is Allah Just - and how is he beneficent and merciful.
If HE is Just and there is no reincarnation - then all babies should be born in the same environment with the same opportunity - no princes. no paupers...
or is it that how we are born, where we are born - to whom we are born - and what opportunities we get in life - because of the circumstance of our birth are based on our past actions- either in a past lifetime or another world....
Because to me - that explains how Allah is Just - otherwise - i don't see justice in how people are born in random situations!
Shams
And if someone comes back and says - some children are born with medical issues because the parents smoked or drank or etc - or genetic issues - than how is that the child's fault - the foetus can't control the parents actions - so why would ALLAH punish the child in such a manner to punish the parents?ShamsB wrote:zznoor wrote:I would just take one Aya quoted by fmitha Posted: 28 Nov 2005 06:46 am
Now read from 23:97 to 23:100Until, when death cometh unto one of them, he saith: My Lord! Send me back,
[Pickthal 23:97] And say: My Lord! I seek refuge in Thee from suggestions of the evil ones,
[Pickthal 23:98] And I seek refuge in Thee, my Lord, lest they be present with me,
[Pickthal 23:99] Until, when death cometh unto one of them, he saith: My Lord! Send me back,
[Pickthal 23:100] That I may do right in that which I have left behind! But nay! It is but a word that he speaketh; and behind them is a barrier until the day when they are raised.
It is apparent this is not about reincarnation.
One has to read in what context Aya was revealed, what is happening before and after Aya.
Half hadithing, half Ayating and out of context is done to creat confusion.
Allah in the Quran says He is Just (ADL) - also one of his 99 Names and He is Merciful and Beneficent.
Based upon this - and solely this - everyone should be born equal - every child should be born healthy - with no medical issues and every human being should have the same opportunities as the other.
But yet this isn't so...
So how is Allah JUST when one child is born into a royal family, or to the Ambanis or Bill Gates of the world and another child is born at the same moment to a beggar on the streets who uses a stone to cut the umbilical cord...
If that selection is Random - then how is Allah Just - and how is he beneficent and merciful.
If HE is Just and there is no reincarnation - then all babies should be born in the same environment with the same opportunity - no princes. no paupers...
or is it that how we are born, where we are born - to whom we are born - and what opportunities we get in life - because of the circumstance of our birth are based on our past actions- either in a past lifetime or another world....
Because to me - that explains how Allah is Just - otherwise - i don't see justice in how people are born in random situations!
Shams
Is that JUST?
or is that past life Karma?
Shams
Ya Ali Madad.
In a recent article in papers.It stated that wealth of top 85 billionaires is as lowest 50% of the world population. (loaded with Shariatis from countries like Bangladesh, Somalia n likes of it).
just 85 = 2.25 billion in wealth.
Why this grave injustice by our beloved Allahtala?
In law of nature (God) majority are mainly suckers and blessed are in micro percentage.(like 25 million blessed Ismailis out of 4.5 billion humans).
There is micro level goings of reward n punishment of each soul and also collective punishment by Acts of nature as seen more severe n prevalent
now n also in coming years.
I have done some observations of the bottom 25% of the world population on their few visible factors n their genetics.I will give out info later.
Soul is on a very very long haul on earth.I mentioned one ayat in my earlier posting on Baatins of Ayats.
I personally is a product of reincarnation(S).I may not tell further on it.
One can go back till Hz Ibrahim time n recollects the memories thru meditation and many periods after that till last few phases of life.( sound funny but true) like seeing empty part of glass that is visible.NO QUESTIONS WILL BE TAKEN ON THIS ISSUE.
If one wishes to know in practical n not theory whether one lived in the past., please go to life Regression Therapist,If you do not believe or agree in Gods word,Farman or Ginans.
It is a self hypnosis session which will also be video recorded and shown to
your educated mind n eyes of your OWN PAST LIFE.
Seeing is believing after that least then believe in God,till then the person is not faithful (Imaani) may be physical religious.but an academically n printed book n Google driven spiritual atheist..
KNOW THYSELF KNOW GOD.
This Combo package comes with all the mystery of Creations
because by then the Creator is right beside you.
from Ginan 'Abe teri mohabat'
TERA AASHAQ (GOD) TERE SAATH CHALENGA
DOSTI DIL VICH LAAVO.
In a recent article in papers.It stated that wealth of top 85 billionaires is as lowest 50% of the world population. (loaded with Shariatis from countries like Bangladesh, Somalia n likes of it).
just 85 = 2.25 billion in wealth.
Why this grave injustice by our beloved Allahtala?
In law of nature (God) majority are mainly suckers and blessed are in micro percentage.(like 25 million blessed Ismailis out of 4.5 billion humans).
There is micro level goings of reward n punishment of each soul and also collective punishment by Acts of nature as seen more severe n prevalent
now n also in coming years.
I have done some observations of the bottom 25% of the world population on their few visible factors n their genetics.I will give out info later.
Soul is on a very very long haul on earth.I mentioned one ayat in my earlier posting on Baatins of Ayats.
I personally is a product of reincarnation(S).I may not tell further on it.
One can go back till Hz Ibrahim time n recollects the memories thru meditation and many periods after that till last few phases of life.( sound funny but true) like seeing empty part of glass that is visible.NO QUESTIONS WILL BE TAKEN ON THIS ISSUE.
If one wishes to know in practical n not theory whether one lived in the past., please go to life Regression Therapist,If you do not believe or agree in Gods word,Farman or Ginans.
It is a self hypnosis session which will also be video recorded and shown to
your educated mind n eyes of your OWN PAST LIFE.
Seeing is believing after that least then believe in God,till then the person is not faithful (Imaani) may be physical religious.but an academically n printed book n Google driven spiritual atheist..
KNOW THYSELF KNOW GOD.
This Combo package comes with all the mystery of Creations
because by then the Creator is right beside you.
from Ginan 'Abe teri mohabat'
TERA AASHAQ (GOD) TERE SAATH CHALENGA
DOSTI DIL VICH LAAVO.
I believe that every soul is created equally at birth with the same opportunity and capabilities to elevate to higher world. However, it all depends on how the soul is nurtured and nourished later on on this earth. Wealth and happiness and peace according subhana tahala may not very well be what we [humans] perceive, such as money, house, car, gold, etc..., it could be Iman, Faith, Kindness, etc...
One can be temporally poor, but spiritually very wealthy, and vise versa, where one can be temporally very wealthy and rich, but spiritually very poor. Concept of poor and wealthy is subjective and specially in these matters, may not be worldly wealth that's important and certainly not to God. I think the wealthy and rich is the one who remembers the Divine and is on sirat-ul-mustaquim, regardless of in which region/circumstances/family [poor or rich], he/she is born/lives. If a child is born in a wealthy family, and later on he's raised someone who does inappropriate deeds, then the so-called 'wealth' didn't help at all. But, a child who is born in a poor family, but has been raised to have Iman and is on sirat-ul mustaqim, then to God, latter is the wealthier.
rebirth can be interpreted, as elevating to higher world and not necessarily physical rebirth.
One can be temporally poor, but spiritually very wealthy, and vise versa, where one can be temporally very wealthy and rich, but spiritually very poor. Concept of poor and wealthy is subjective and specially in these matters, may not be worldly wealth that's important and certainly not to God. I think the wealthy and rich is the one who remembers the Divine and is on sirat-ul-mustaquim, regardless of in which region/circumstances/family [poor or rich], he/she is born/lives. If a child is born in a wealthy family, and later on he's raised someone who does inappropriate deeds, then the so-called 'wealth' didn't help at all. But, a child who is born in a poor family, but has been raised to have Iman and is on sirat-ul mustaqim, then to God, latter is the wealthier.
rebirth can be interpreted, as elevating to higher world and not necessarily physical rebirth.