Imam Knowing all languages

[Admin]

There is a section on Atma Ram. DO not discuss here

[kmaherali]

Please do not get aggravated and refer to interview of Imam when he was asked how many languages he knows. He replied French, English, Italian, Spanish and a bit of Urdu (this quote is available on forum).

I am not at all aggravated. I just wanted to know the basis of your assertion.

Usually the Imam expresses himself according to the capacity of the audience. He expresses and says different things to the public as opposed to his murids. For example he reads speeches in public but makes his Farmans extempore to his murids.

[FreeLancer]

Please do not get aggravated and refer to interview of Imam when he was asked how many languages he knows. He replied French, English, Italian, Spanish and a bit of Urdu (this quote is available on forum).

I am not at all aggravated. I just wanted to know the basis of your assertion.

Usually the Imam expresses himself according to the capacity of the audience. He expresses and says different things to the public as opposed to his murids. For example he reads speeches in public but makes his Farmans extempore to his murids.

I believe what Imam says publicly or privately is right. He never lies, and is straight forward, candid, and accurate in his answers. I gave proof from an interview.

[kmaherali]

I believe what Imam says publicly or privately is right. He never lies, and is straight forward, candid, and accurate in his answers. I gave proof from an interview.

I never implied that the Imam lies. A perfect teacher speaks according to the capacity of the audience. Public audience is not the same as a Jamati audience.

There is an expectation that murids would have a better and deeper understanding of Imamat as opposed to the general public.

[FreeLancer]

I believe what Imam says publicly or privately is right. He never lies, and is straight forward, candid, and accurate in his answers. I gave proof from an interview.

I never implied that the Imam lies. A perfect teacher speaks according to the capacity of the audience. Public audience is not the same as a Jamati audience.

There is an expectation that murids would have a better and deeper understanding of Imamat as opposed to the general public.

Did Hazar Imam Shah Karim Al Hussaini ever in his farmans infront of his murids said," I know 5600 languages spoken on Earth"?

[Admin]

Did Hazar Imam Shah Karim Al Hussaini ever in his farmans infront of his murids said," I know 5600 languages spoken on Earth"?

You question is completely ridiculous. First, question if Salaman Payghambar could understand languages of animals and chalenge the god of the scripture that you admire and love to quote first.

5,600 languages No but he has said to some that the Imam knows even the language of the birds.

Hazar Imam Shah Karim al Husseini also did not say in front of his Murids that he does jogging and horse-riding regularly so what exactly is your buff in always downgrading our Imam?

[kmaherali]

Did Hazar Imam Shah Karim Al Hussaini ever in his farmans infront of his murids said," I know 5600 languages spoken on Earth"?

Here is a saying of Hazarat Ali:

Anal lazi indi alfa kitabin, min kutubil ambiya. Ana mutkal lemo be kulle lugtin fi duniya.

'I have the thousands of scriptures of the prophets. I can talk all the languages of the world.'

It is the same Noor! You need to go through the whole thread.

[ShamsB]

Did Hazar Imam Shah Karim Al Hussaini ever in his farmans infront of his murids said," I know 5600 languages spoken on Earth"?

Here is a saying of Hazarat Ali:

Anal lazi indi alfa kitabin, min kutubil ambiya. Ana mutkal lemo be kulle lugtin fi duniya.

'I have the thousands of scriptures of the prophets. I can talk all the languages of the world.'

It is the same Noor! You need to go through the whole thread.

But Freelancer is still trying to figure out the nature of the Noor - so this maybe a little beyond right now. Not trying to be mean or funny - just stating and observation!

[FreeLancer]

Did Hazar Imam Shah Karim Al Hussaini ever in his farmans infront of his murids said," I know 5600 languages spoken on Earth"?

Here is a saying of Hazarat Ali:

Anal lazi indi alfa kitabin, min kutubil ambiya. Ana mutkal lemo be kulle lugtin fi duniya.

'I have the thousands of scriptures of the prophets. I can talk all the languages of the world.'

It is the same Noor! You need to go through the whole thread.

But Freelancer is still trying to figure out the nature of the Noor - so this maybe a little beyond right now. Not trying to be mean or funny - just stating and observation!

Shams Saheb Salaam,

Ee jhera heritage da baba sin te ghussa bhi honda ee te makhol bhi karda ee, koi navi gul nahi. Tusi mai(n) nu samjhao ke Noor di haqiqat ki ee. Tuadhe kol Noor di koi difinition hae to bayan karo. Tuadhi maherbani.
Rubb Rakha.

[FreeLancer]

Did Hazar Imam Shah Karim Al Hussaini ever in his farmans infront of his murids said," I know 5600 languages spoken on Earth"?

Here is a saying of Hazarat Ali:

Anal lazi indi alfa kitabin, min kutubil ambiya. Ana mutkal lemo be kulle lugtin fi duniya.

'I have the thousands of scriptures of the prophets. I can talk all the languages of the world.'

It is the same Noor! You need to go through the whole thread.

Mostly Shia literature was developed in the time of Safavid Dynasty. Books like Biharul Anwaar and Koukab durri were written in that era. Even Khutbah e Bayania and other such khutbaat were compiled after 15/16 centuries.
I believe Ali is Noor of Allah but being as a modern man can't digest old stories beyond comprehension.
Let me ask you and others a question. During DJ visit to Dubai, did Imam spoke in Arabic with executives of Dubai except greetings.
Imam was taught Islamic studies and basic Arabic by a private teacher in his childhood at home. Later on when he was Imam still he completed Islamic studies at HARVARD.

[FreeLancer]

Did Hazar Imam Shah Karim Al Hussaini ever in his farmans infront of his murids said," I know 5600 languages spoken on Earth"?

You question is completely ridiculous. First, question if Salaman Payghambar could understand languages of animals and chalenge the god of the scripture that you admire and love to quote first.

5,600 languages No but he has said to some that the Imam knows even the language of the birds.

Hazar Imam Shah Karim al Husseini also did not say in front of his Murids that he does jogging and horse-riding regularly so what exactly is your buff in always downgrading our Imam?

My questions and debate is not ridiculous but your thinking is.
Was Hazar Imam not taught Islamic Studies and basic Arabic by a private teacher in his child hood? Which missionary taught Imam Eid Namaz which he recited at age of 7? I have no answer for wishful conservative thinking.
By the way Imam has also not mentioned to his murids that he do exercise or have breakfast.

[ShamsB]

Here is a saying of Hazarat Ali:

Anal lazi indi alfa kitabin, min kutubil ambiya. Ana mutkal lemo be kulle lugtin fi duniya.

'I have the thousands of scriptures of the prophets. I can talk all the languages of the world.'

It is the same Noor! You need to go through the whole thread.

But Freelancer is still trying to figure out the nature of the Noor - so this maybe a little beyond right now. Not trying to be mean or funny - just stating and observation!

Shams Saheb Salaam,

Ee jhera heritage da baba sin te ghussa bhi honda ee te makhol bhi karda ee, koi navi gul nahi. Tusi mai(n) nu samjhao ke Noor di haqiqat ki ee. Tuadhe kol Noor di koi difinition hae to bayan karo. Tuadhi maherbani.
Rubb Rakha.

All I can tell you is that it is inexplicable - until one experiences it himself.
As Pir has said - like a mute person trying to explain a dream...or trying to explain the smell of a rose...
And as I haven't experienced it - I can't even attempt to explain it. However I do have faith that it is what it is.

Shams

[kmaherali]

Mostly Shia literature was developed in the time of Safavid Dynasty. Books like Biharul Anwaar and Koukab durri were written in that era. Even Khutbah e Bayania and other such khutbaat were compiled after 15/16 centuries.
I believe Ali is Noor of Allah but being as a modern man can't digest old stories beyond comprehension.
Let me ask you and others a question. During DJ visit to Dubai, did Imam spoke in Arabic with executives of Dubai except greetings.
Imam was taught Islamic studies and basic Arabic by a private teacher in his childhood at home. Later on when he was Imam still he completed Islamic studies at HARVARD.

MHI tells us in his Farmans to hold strong to the traditions. What are the traditions? If you say the Imam is the Noor of Allah, then why is it incomprehensible that the Noor should know all languages?

The Imam does not express himself as person who knows all languages in the domain of the zahir (public). However within the Jamat he has indicated many times.

[FreeLancer]

But Freelancer is still trying to figure out the nature of the Noor - so this maybe a little beyond right now. Not trying to be mean or funny - just stating and observation!

Shams Saheb Salaam,

Ee jhera heritage da baba sin te ghussa bhi honda ee te makhol bhi karda ee, koi navi gul nahi. Tusi mai(n) nu samjhao ke Noor di haqiqat ki ee. Tuadhe kol Noor di koi difinition hae to bayan karo. Tuadhi maherbani.
Rubb Rakha.

All I can tell you is that it is inexplicable - until one experiences it himself.
As Pir has said - like a mute person trying to explain a dream...or trying to explain the smell of a rose...
And as I haven't experienced it - I can't even attempt to explain it. However I do have faith that it is what it is.

Shams

MAI(N) TUJH KO GAR KHUSHBU KAHU(N)
TEREY RUTBEY KI TOUHEEN HAI YEH
TERA NOOR HAMESHA SE QAIM HAI
HAR PAL KE LIYE HAMEESHA KE LIYE

Tusi Punjabi wich likhdey, gal kardey sharmandey oh. Tuadhey jawab kolu(n) Noor da masaila hal nahi hoya. Punjabi wich kahdey ne. jithey di khoti uthey aan khaloti, English wich matleb ee ' we are (still) there from where we started'. Noor has various meanings mentioned in general literature, poetry, and ginans. Imam Sultan Muhammad said," AA DUNYA MA NOOR NU PAANI HAATH AAVI SHAKTO NATHI". Let us wait till dooms day.

[FreeLancer]

Mostly Shia literature was developed in the time of Safavid Dynasty. Books like Biharul Anwaar and Koukab durri were written in that era. Even Khutbah e Bayania and other such khutbaat were compiled after 15/16 centuries.
I believe Ali is Noor of Allah but being as a modern man can't digest old stories beyond comprehension.
Let me ask you and others a question. During DJ visit to Dubai, did Imam spoke in Arabic with executives of Dubai except greetings.
Imam was taught Islamic studies and basic Arabic by a private teacher in his childhood at home. Later on when he was Imam still he completed Islamic studies at HARVARD.

MHI tells us in his Farmans to hold strong to the traditions. What are the traditions? If you say the Imam is the Noor of Allah, then why is it incomprehensible that the Noor should know all languages?

The Imam does not express himself as person who knows all languages in the domain of the zahir (public). However within the Jamat he has indicated many times.

Noor, Noorullah, Noor e Imamat are most important words in RELIGIOUS LIFE of an Ismaili. Your approach is conservative. How you will explain this notion to a modern day youth. Now a days youth is asking very difficult questions regarding our Tariqa. They do not want to hear I said, you said, or he said. They want scientific answer. There format is YES OR NO. In a student gathering if a student ask a question or want to discuss some thing with Imam in his native language say Chinese or Russian will Imam discuss the matter in these languages? Please be reasonable.

[kmaherali]

Noor, Noorullah, Noor e Imamat are most important words in RELIGIOUS LIFE of an Ismaili. Your approach is conservative. How you will explain this notion to a modern day youth. Now a days youth is asking very difficult questions regarding our Tariqa. They do not want to hear I said, you said, or he said. They want scientific answer. There format is YES OR NO. In a student gathering if a student ask a question or want to discuss some thing with Imam in his native language say Chinese or Russian will Imam discuss the matter in these languages? Please be reasonable.

It is not difficult to tell students and youth today that everything in religion is not comprehensible, reasonable or rational. There are matters that one needs to experience. There is mystery in religion.

There is an article on Rumi about this at:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ophy-islam

Can learning lead to God? For Rumi, knowledge is always partial. The Sufi way, however, can provide a taste of true reality

If the Imam feels that the student has the deeper understanding of Imamat, he may discuss matters in Chinese, Russian or whatever language. However this is based on case by case. It is not a public matter.

[FreeLancer]

Noor, Noorullah, Noor e Imamat are most important words in RELIGIOUS LIFE of an Ismaili. Your approach is conservative. How you will explain this notion to a modern day youth. Now a days youth is asking very difficult questions regarding our Tariqa. They do not want to hear I said, you said, or he said. They want scientific answer. There format is YES OR NO. In a student gathering if a student ask a question or want to discuss some thing with Imam in his native language say Chinese or Russian will Imam discuss the matter in these languages? Please be reasonable.

It is not difficult to tell students and youth today that everything in religion is not comprehensible, reasonable or rational. There are matters that one needs to experience. There is mystery in religion.

There is an article on Rumi about this at:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ophy-islam

Can learning lead to God? For Rumi, knowledge is always partial. The Sufi way, however, can provide a taste of true reality

If the Imam feels that the student has the deeper understanding of Imamat, he may discuss matters in Chinese, Russian or whatever language. However this is based on case by case. It is not a public matter.

It is not a public matter or a private matter. My question was simple and understandable, if a Russian or Chinese Ismaili discuss any matter in his native language will Hazar Imam respond in these languages or seek translater?

Why Imam was taught basic Arabic and Islamic studies by a private teacher in his childhood. Which missionary taught Imam Eid Namaz which he lead at age 7 in Nairobi. Being Imam he does not need outer means.

[kmaherali]

It is not a public matter or a private matter. My question was simple and understandable, if a Russian or Chinese Ismaili discuss any matter in his native language will Hazar Imam respond in these languages or seek translater?

Why Imam was taught basic Arabic and Islamic studies by a private teacher in his childhood. Which missionary taught Imam Eid Namaz which he lead at age 7 in Nairobi. Being Imam he does not need outer means.

Each murid has his/her own relationship with the Imam. It is a private and personal matter. It is not a public matter. If the discussion is in private between a murid and the Imam, the Imam will respond to the language he was addressed. On the other hand if the discussion is in public, then the Imam will use an interpreter.

The Imam does not express himself in public that he knows all. It is an esoteric idea and not for everyone. Our tradition is esoteric and there are matters that are only for the Jamat and cannot be disclosed to the public.

There is nothing wrong with the Imam being 'taught' Arabic. That is how he wants to be known in public - that he knows Arabic because he was taught Arabic.

In reality though, the Imam does not need to be taught anything.

[FreeLancer]

It is not a public matter or a private matter. My question was simple and understandable, if a Russian or Chinese Ismaili discuss any matter in his native language will Hazar Imam respond in these languages or seek translater?

Why Imam was taught basic Arabic and Islamic studies by a private teacher in his childhood. Which missionary taught Imam Eid Namaz which he lead at age 7 in Nairobi. Being Imam he does not need outer means.

Each murid has his/her own relationship with the Imam. It is a private and personal matter. It is not a public matter. If the discussion is in private between a murid and the Imam, the Imam will respond to the language he was addressed. On the other hand if the discussion is in public, then the Imam will use an interpreter.

The Imam does not express himself in public that he knows all. It is an esoteric idea and not for everyone. Our tradition is esoteric and there are matters that are only for the Jamat and cannot be disclosed to the public.

There is nothing wrong with the Imam being 'taught' Arabic. That is how he wants to be known in public - that he knows Arabic because he was taught Arabic.

In reality though, the Imam does not need to be taught anything.

In modern era the magic of esoteric means and batini tactics are not workable with youth. Imam understands this change and he has diverted his attention to youth past 20 years. Imam says be reasonable, rational, and use intellect. My question is not related to public or private domain. Let me put question in this way. During students mulaqaat, some student who does not know English ask question in his native language say, Russian or Kazik, will Imam reciprocate in his language directly or seek help of interpreter.
Question on this forum is 'Imam knows all languages', then why previous Imam arranged a tutor for Arabic, being Imam he should have known on his own, no need of teacher.

[Admin]

then why previous Imam arranged a tutor for Arabic, being Imam he should have known on his own, no need of teacher.

Ismailis know that Imam understand their heart and language and even what they try to hide from him. We say the well know saying "Tan ki jane man ki jane. Jane chit ki chori"

This is a matter of faith which only a Haqiqati Mumin can have for his Imam, it is not given to all. As our Imam has previously said, it is useless to discuss matters of religion with people without faith.

[kmaherali]

In modern era the magic of esoteric means and batini tactics are not workable with youth. Imam understands this change and he has diverted his attention to youth past 20 years. Imam says be reasonable, rational, and use intellect. My question is not related to public or private domain. Let me put question in this way. During students mulaqaat, some student who does not know English ask question in his native language say, Russian or Kazik, will Imam reciprocate in his language directly or seek help of interpreter.
Question on this forum is 'Imam knows all languages', then why previous Imam arranged a tutor for Arabic, being Imam he should have known on his own, no need of teacher.

MHI made the following Farman in Dar es Salaam on Oct 1988 (Modern Time):

"Our tradition goes back centuries. It is an esoteric tradition; it is an intellectual tradition; it is a personal tradition; it is a tradition that stems from Hazrat Ali and there will be no compromise on the essence of those traditions."

Esoteric dimension of our faith is very important and must be impressed upon our youth.

When MHI gave Deedar to the Russian Jamat in Moscow, Madho (poetry in Russian language) was recited. Do you think the Imam did not know what was recited?

There are exoteric (zaheri) aspects of faith and the esoteric (batini) aspects of faith. From the zaheri perspective, the Imam does not express himself as someone who knows all. However from the batini perspective, he knows all.

You have to understand this dual nature of our faith and Imamat.

[FreeLancer]

In modern era the magic of esoteric means and batini tactics are not workable with youth. Imam understands this change and he has diverted his attention to youth past 20 years. Imam says be reasonable, rational, and use intellect. My question is not related to public or private domain. Let me put question in this way. During students mulaqaat, some student who does not know English ask question in his native language say, Russian or Kazik, will Imam reciprocate in his language directly or seek help of interpreter.
Question on this forum is 'Imam knows all languages', then why previous Imam arranged a tutor for Arabic, being Imam he should have known on his own, no need of teacher.

MHI made the following Farman in Dar es Salaam on Oct 1988 (Modern Time):

"Our tradition goes back centuries. It is an esoteric tradition; it is an intellectual tradition; it is a personal tradition; it is a tradition that stems from Hazrat Ali and there will be no compromise on the essence of those traditions."

Esoteric dimension of our faith is very important and must be impressed upon our youth.

When MHI gave Deedar to the Russian Jamat in Moscow, Madho (poetry in Russian language) was recited. Do you think the Imam did not know what was recited?

There are exoteric (zaheri) aspects of faith and the esoteric (batini) aspects of faith. From the zaheri perspective, the Imam does not express himself as someone who knows all. However from the batini perspective, he knows all.

You have to understand this dual nature of our faith and Imamat.

Not criticizing Farman, in my humble opinion, words like esoteric means or batini explanation by different scholars in different directions put youth in no direction. Constantly using these words like, batin, taweel, esoteric looses meaning in long run. When a missionary mentioned the miracle of Pir Shams that sun came down to cook a piece of meat for him. Youngsters questioned how is it possible? if sun tilts just one degree down the creation on earth will be destroyed. Missionary got confused and started giving esoteric meaning of that miracle. End result confusing himself and youngsters.

Imam listened to Qasidah in Russian language as you mentioned, but did Imam addressed the Russian jamait in Russian or in English?

[kmaherali]

Youngsters questioned how is it possible? if sun tilts just one degree down the creation on earth will be destroyed. Missionary got confused and started giving esoteric meaning of that miracle. End result confusing himself and youngsters.

Imam listened to Qasidah in Russian language as you mentioned, but did Imam addressed the Russian jamait in Russian or in English?

You only have to tell youths that Ginans are allegorical and can have multiple meanings. No reasonable youth will get confused about that unless they are stupid.

When the Imam addresses the Jamat in a Darbar, it becomes a zaheri context. It is heard of by the entire public. The Farmans made are available to public.

In a zaheri context the Imam will act zaheri as well. He will not express himself as the one who knows all. Hence he will not speak in any other language besides English and French when making Farmans.

[FreeLancer]

Youngsters questioned how is it possible? if sun tilts just one degree down the creation on earth will be destroyed. Missionary got confused and started giving esoteric meaning of that miracle. End result confusing himself and youngsters.

Imam listened to Qasidah in Russian language as you mentioned, but did Imam addressed the Russian jamait in Russian or in English?

You only have to tell youths that Ginans are allegorical and can have multiple meanings. No reasonable youth will get confused about that unless they are stupid.

When the Imam addresses the Jamat in a Darbar, it becomes a zaheri context. It is heard of by the entire public. The Farmans made are available to public.

In a zaheri context the Imam will act zaheri as well. He will not express himself as the one who knows all. Hence he will not speak in any other language besides English and French when making Farmans.

When Ginans/poetry has multiple allegorical meanings then who will decide which meaning is correct or suitable. Statements will be diversified putting youth to plunge in more confusion.

During Darbar, I consider Darbar as Dedaar and not Mulaqat, if some none Ismaili is sitting there and listening Farman so what !! Do you think that particular person do not understand English, why so much secrecy? During GJ and DJ the routine is NO ENTRY WITHOUT SPECIAL PASSES, then how come a non Ismaili will enter the premises. Sorry to write, is Imam like a GOOGLE TRANSLATOR who listen in various languages and translates into English or French.
Let me ask you, Imam knows Urdu, why not he deliver Farman in Urdu in Pakistan. Recently he visited Pakistan why he not spoke in Chitrali, Broshiski, or Urdu? There weren't any secret things in Farmans.

[kmaherali]

When Ginans/poetry has multiple allegorical meanings then who will decide which meaning is correct or suitable. Statements will be diversified putting youth to plunge in more confusion.

During Darbar, I consider Darbar as Dedaar and not Mulaqat, if some none Ismaili is sitting there and listening Farman so what !! Do you think that particular person do not understand English, why so much secrecy? During GJ and DJ the routine is NO ENTRY WITHOUT SPECIAL PASSES, then how come a non Ismaili will enter the premises. Sorry to write, is Imam like a GOOGLE TRANSLATOR who listen in various languages and translates into English or French.
Let me ask you, Imam knows Urdu, why not he deliver Farman in Urdu in Pakistan. Recently he visited Pakistan why he not spoke in Chitrali, Broshiski, or Urdu? There weren't any secret things in Farmans.

Sometimes the Imam himself will give an authoritative meaning if it is necessary for a particular context, otherwise he has encouraged us to used out intellects within the ethics of our faith. There is of course strength in diversity so long as the intention of seeking the meanings is ethical.

When a non-Ismaili who has no understanding about Noor or Mazhar, comes to know that the Imam spoke in Russian, he will ask: How does he know Russian when he has not learnt it?

This creates confusion. The notion of the Imam knowing all languages is a batini one. One must not mix batini matters with the zaheri matters. There is a Farman which states:

MHI Farman:: Zahir is Zahir, Batin is Batin
Leaders of Syrian Jamat
Sheraton Hotel
Damascus Syria
May 8, 1980

""When you return to your homes, I would like you to take back with you My Farman concerning unity, friendship and brotherhood. Keep in mind the Farman that I have sent you, either in writing or this afternoon. Remember also that with regard to the interpretation of our faith, that which is Batin is Batin, that which is Zahir is Zahir. Remember that this is fundamental. And this is the Farman which I have given you today. And I wish that there should be no confusion.""

[FreeLancer]

When Ginans/poetry has multiple allegorical meanings then who will decide which meaning is correct or suitable. Statements will be diversified putting youth to plunge in more confusion.

During Darbar, I consider Darbar as Dedaar and not Mulaqat, if some none Ismaili is sitting there and listening Farman so what !! Do you think that particular person do not understand English, why so much secrecy? During GJ and DJ the routine is NO ENTRY WITHOUT SPECIAL PASSES, then how come a non Ismaili will enter the premises. Sorry to write, is Imam like a GOOGLE TRANSLATOR who listen in various languages and translates into English or French.
Let me ask you, Imam knows Urdu, why not he deliver Farman in Urdu in Pakistan. Recently he visited Pakistan why he not spoke in Chitrali, Broshiski, or Urdu? There weren't any secret things in Farmans.

Sometimes the Imam himself will give an authoritative meaning if it is necessary for a particular context, otherwise he has encouraged us to used out intellects within the ethics of our faith. There is of course strength in diversity so long as the intention of seeking the meanings is ethical.

When a non-Ismaili who has no understanding about Noor or Mazhar, comes to know that the Imam spoke in Russian, he will ask: How does he know Russian when he has not learnt it?

This creates confusion. The notion of the Imam knowing all languages is a batini one. One must not mix batini matters with the zaheri matters. There is a Farman which states:

MHI Farman:: Zahir is Zahir, Batin is Batin
Leaders of Syrian Jamat
Sheraton Hotel
Damascus Syria
May 8, 1980

""When you return to your homes, I would like you to take back with you My Farman concerning unity, friendship and brotherhood. Keep in mind the Farman that I have sent you, either in writing or this afternoon. Remember also that with regard to the interpretation of our faith, that which is Batin is Batin, that which is Zahir is Zahir. Remember that this is fundamental. And this is the Farman which I have given you today. And I wish that there should be no confusion.""

You are drifted away from the topic 'Imam knows all languages' and started writing about seeking the meanings is ethical, diversity, zahir and batin.
Karim we live in zahri world and not 5 miles deep in an ocean in darkness.
Seeing is believing. listening is believable. Did Imam ever said he knows all languages of world during Farman or mentioned publicly. You avoided my previous question, when Imam knows Arabic in batin why in his childhood a tutor was arranged to teach him Arabic and Islamic studies ( same happened with his children and one of them will be future Imam). During Dubai visit Imam did not converse with Dubai rulers in Arabic. With the power of Noor if Imam speaks all languages in public it will be fantastic.
According to your assertion Imam knows all languages in batin then there will be thousands of pirs, faqirs, syeds, sufi, yogi, saints who can claim same thing that in batin they know all languages.
In Syrian Farman Imam did not claimed he knows all languages of world. That farman was in different context.

[Admin]

According to your assertion Imam knows all languages in batin then there will be thousands of pirs, faqirs, syeds, sufi, yogi, saints who can claim same thing that in batin they know all languages.
In Syrian Farman Imam did not claimed he knows all languages of world. That farman was in different context.

What the Syeds, Faqirs and Yogis say is of no relevance to us.

There are two facets to the Imam, one is Zaher where he speaks a limited number of languages, breaks his foot while doing sky and seats as chairman of the AKDN. The other dimension is a spiritual dimension where he has no limit. This is the crux of the matter. If these Ismaili premises are not accepted, then confusion, as you have consistently shown, does arise and no amount of explanation will be satisfactory.

[FreeLancer]

According to your assertion Imam knows all languages in batin then there will be thousands of pirs, faqirs, syeds, sufi, yogi, saints who can claim same thing that in batin they know all languages.
In Syrian Farman Imam did not claimed he knows all languages of world. That farman was in different context.

What the Syeds, Faqirs and Yogis say is of no relevance to us.

There are two facets to the Imam, one is Zaher where he speaks a limited number of languages, breaks his foot while doing sky and seats as chairman of the AKDN. The other dimension is a spiritual dimension where he has no limit. This is the crux of the matter. If these Ismaili premises are not accepted, then confusion, as you have consistently shown, does arise and no amount of explanation will be satisfactory.

I believe Imam is Noor of Allah, I believe Imam has spiritual powers but looking at every aspect under lenses of batin is not workable with modern Ismaili youth. Batin has 100x1000 of windows any one can get into it and comes out claiming different things including Ismails. Ismaili premises are rational, seeing is believing.

[kmaherali]

Ismaili premises are rational, seeing is believing.

So God is not seen ordinarily, so we should not believe in God!

[FreeLancer]

Ismaili premises are rational, seeing is believing.

So God is not seen ordinarily, so we should not believe in God!

In imagination:
Judge to witness; Did you see with your eyes this man stealing in shop?
Witness; No sir, but I saw him stealing in my imagination.
Judge; what a duck! He hit with his hammer on table and roared , the case dismissed, it has no grounding.

Prophets and Imams said 'don't lie" but we are forced to lie and accept there is God. No one has seen God, why to lie there is God!

JISS KO DEKHA BHI NAHI USS KO KHUDA KAHTEY HAI(N)

We have no choice but still want to satisfy ourselves, therefore called Him Nirinjin, Alakh, Anami, Agam Agochar......