I was speaking to someone very recently in Jamatkhana and he mentioned that one day Hazar Imam will manifest himself (I am not sure if this is the correct terminology or word) as the Mahdi towards the rest of the Shia sects. What does one on this forum have to say about that?
Thanks!
S786
Hazar Imam to manifest as "The Mahdi" for other Sh
I am glad that you raised this question. I came across the article mentioned below, and was thinking about a proper context to present it in this forum. The article discusses the zeal and enthusiasm with which the Shias of Iraq are reviving their traditions and culture with all that goes with it in terms of education and literature. These had been suppressed during the rule of Saddam. In addition there is a real possibility of unity with the Shias of Iran.
Where is this all leading towards? What if through proper education and reflection of the current circumstances they come to realize that the Mahdi is not hiding but should be living and that he is MHI. At the same time we are also witnessing a rapid growth in our institutional capacity well beyond the scope of our Jamat. I think the AKDN is gradually getting involved in Iran and we have had collaborative scholarly activities between the IIS and the respective institutions of Iran. Through these endeavors MHI is building bridges with the other Shias. In my opinion it won't be to long before they ask him for leadership and guidance.
In an interview relating to the war in Iraq with La Croix, MHI was asked: "What experience can you bring, in your capacity as Head of the Ismaili Community?" To which he answered: "Ismaili Shiism has a living Imam, who lives in the world, [and] has a great number of contacts. I observe the changes [in the world] and, in so far as possible, I anticipate the manner in which to build institutions which meet the needs of Ismailis. We do not have, in the Ismaili Community, a sole ethnic group, a sole [spoken] language, a sole religious history. I pay attention to this pluralism of traditions. I situate my actions in the context of the [current] times. I have lived through decolonization, the end of the Cold War, the creation of Bangladesh, the Iranian Revolution. In the face of these situations, it was necessary to reflect, to anticipate, to respond to necessities. My grandfather gave, and I have myself given, a certain interpretation to Shiism. The intellect is seen as a facet of faith, in the service of faith. Reason, reflection, form part of the process of decision making. This reflection is wished, is necessary in the interpretation of religion. This is one of the elements which has made it possible for the Ismaili Community to respond to the problems of [the modern world]."
In my opinion the above answer expresses MHI's willingness to help and that he has the relevant qualifications (in worldly manner) in terms of his leadership of the Jamat through the crisis of recent history.
Here is the article...
THE CONFLICT IN IRAQ
Piety And Power
Shiite Muslims, a majority in Iraq who were oppressed under Saddam Hussein's rule, savor new religious freedom and political clout.
By Alissa J. Rubin
Times Staff Writer
May 8, 2005
The Shiite revolution in Iraq burst into public view barely 10 days after the fall of Saddam Hussein. Without his troops to forbid them, Shiite Muslim pilgrims began to throng Iraq's highways as the festival of Arbayeen neared, the women's black abayas flowing behind them in the breeze as if flocks of crows had taken to the roads.
At almost every hamlet along the route to the holy city of Karbala, volunteers scattered plastic chairs and tables and offered sweet tea, water, bread. The mood on the eve of the festival was one of exhilaration, exuberance — and resolution. Everyone seemed to know why he or she was there. This was celebration, but also a moment of solidarity.
No one said, "Never again," but that was the subtext. Never again would Iraq's majority Shiites be denied the right to practice their religion. Never again would they be taken out and slaughtered just because they were suspected of disloyalty to the government. Never again would they be at the bottom of the heap.
Two years later, that revolution reached its apotheosis with the swearing-in last week of a Cabinet in which more than half the ministers are Shiite, including the prime minister. For the first time in its nearly 80-year history, Iraq is controlled by the religious descendants of the ancient battle of Karbala, a key event in the sect's early history.
The emergence of political control is just one facet of a much broader Shiite renaissance in Iraq that has transformed the country's social and cultural life.
Pilgrims jostle for space with the peddlers of religious souvenirs who fill the streets leading to the Imam Ali Mosque in Najaf, offering devotional tracts and garish prayer rugs emblazoned with depictions of favorite imams.
Scores of new Shiite religious schools offer Koran classes to boys and girls in central and southern Iraq. In poetry, music and book publishing, Shiites are openly reviving traditions that were brutally stifled by Hussein's Sunni-led Baath Party.
Most of the world's Muslims are Sunnis, who diverge little with Shiites in their core beliefs; the doctrinal roots of their difference lie in a disagreement over the rightful successor to the prophet Muhammad, the founder of Islam.
Battles fought 13 centuries ago over the leadership of the Muslims are at the core of Shiite beliefs, which, like the Catholic faith, is rife with saints, blood and martyrdom and boasts a rigorous intellectual tradition. The Shiites are in essence a people on pilgrimage, living over and over — as some Christians do the passion of Christ — the wrongs that were done them.
Often, pilgrims will weep as they describe the final battle of Muhammad's grandson, Imam Hussein, near Karbala as if it had happened yesterday and they had known him personally.
"There began to be a revival of the life and the body of Shiites more than 25 years ago," says Talal Talib, 33, a singer of religious music. "But then we were practicing in secret. Now we are practicing in the middle of the streets."
A Music Once Silenced
The heart of Baghdad's Shiite life is in Kadhimiya, one of the city's oldest neighborhoods. Cantilevered windows lean out from wooden houses over the narrow dirt streets; the outdoor market is so thick with merchants' booths that each awning touches the next. Small wooden doorways lead into warrens of tiny shops, apothecaries, barbers and cloth sellers.
At the very back of one of these dark hallways is a small jewelry store no more than 6 feet across and perhaps 8 or 9 feet deep. On a February afternoon, four men are inside, two of them chatting and the other two etching religious messages in fine calligraphy onto gold jewelry.
A small boy rushes in periodically with trays of heavily sugared tea. Portraits of revered Shiite leaders watch over the proceedings: Mohammed Sadeq Sadr, with his snow-white beard, and his darker-bearded brother, Mohammed Bakr Sadr. Both are believed to have been assassinated on Hussein's orders.
The hunched jewelers are more than craftsmen. They are the "poets of the Husseini pulpit," singers from a tradition stretching back more than 10 centuries. They sing the story of the martyrdom of Imam Hussein, in versions ancient and contemporary, urban and Bedouin.
It is a form of a cappella music that strikes a chord in almost every Shiite who hears it, seeming at once ancient and utterly current. The men in the shop are reciters, or singers; generally, the poems have been handed down through an oral tradition or are written by contemporaries.
"Most of my thinking is spiritual. I go deeper and deeper into each word I utter and also have before my eyes the image of the death of Imam Hussein," Haider abu Ameer, 23, says as he pauses in his engraving. Then, he lays down his tools and begins to sing.
The melody is lilting, yet carries a sadness so eloquent it brings many listeners to tears. The sound fills the small shop and seeps out under the door. It draws neighborhood children who, their noses pressed to the glass, listen from outside.
Ameer closes his eyes as his voice rises and falls by half and quarter tones.
Much more than a jewelry shop, this is a gathering place for Husseini pulpit singers. Many of them work the two jobs — engraver and singer.
"There have been attempts over the centuries to extinguish the tradition of the Husseini pulpit," says the singer Talib, 33, sitting in the shop listening to the conversation, a white shawl covering his head. "But it has been around for 1,400 years. There is no end to such a school. Saddam's regime tried to diminish us as well, but we were able to continue."
The Kadhimiya neighborhood has two flourishing schools that teach the art of Husseini pulpit singing. There are more in other Shiite areas of Baghdad as well as in Najaf and Karbala. Some graduates of the four-year schools become professionals and sing at religious festivals; others confine their performances to their own families. Some become teachers or travel to start Husseini pulpit schools in other places.
The singers, in demand for weddings and funerals, are almost always present on the Shiites' high holidays, when corps of men walk in formation, alternately clapping their hands, beating their chests and hitting themselves with ropes or chains, as poets of the pulpit sing Imam Hussein's story.
"The suffering which we have lived under is part of a cycle of actions and reactions," Talib says. "And our suffering is rewarded by God."
Islamic Education
The signs began to appear in the Shiite neighborhoods of Baghdad and in the larger cities across southern Iraq just a few months after Saddam Hussein's disappearance from the capital. "Classes in Koran, Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays," and then, "Classes for Girls and Boys."
By the fall of 2003, announcements blared from mosque loudspeakers. One proclaimed, "We are calling all women to join religious school. Secondary school certificates necessary. They will have to pass an exam. Classes start Saturday. Registration is at the Kadhimiya hospital."
And women came. At first in small groups, then dozens, then scores. The clerics who ran some of the schools puzzled over how to accommodate them. In strict Islamic settings, men and women must attend separate classes, sometimes even at different times of the day.
"We started out just meeting once a week. Right away, we had to go to twice a week. Now we are trying to add a third class because the women want it," Salah Ubaidi says at a low-slung, modern Arab house in Kadhimiya donated by a wealthy Shiite from the United Arab Emirates for use as a religious school.
In Iraq, Shiite clerics, including Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani, encourage women to take part in politics and pursue an education, although they expect them to wear head scarves and abayas. In the domestic sphere, women are expected to allow their rights to be governed by Sharia — Islamic law.
On that particular day, the instruction is for men. In the classrooms for theology lessons, students sit on rugs, and instead of desks there are rows of low wooden Koran holders that — like the stands on which preachers place the Bible — allow the book to stay open.
Other classrooms have rows of computers, and just before lunch a class gets underway in how to use the Internet for research.
In another Shiite neighborhood, a 100-year-old school that had been used by the Baath Party as a neighborhood headquarters is searching for a female teacher. Sheik Hassan Tuaima, who teaches women twice a week in two-hour sessions, needs the help.
In a neon-lighted classroom, about 25 women ranging from their late teens to their 40s, one or two quieting children they have brought along, listen closely to Hassan's lecture. Several interrupt him with questions, and Hassan looks away as he answers. In Iraqi Muslim culture, it is considered rude for a man to look a woman in the eye when he is speaking to her.
After class, as they drink juice with Hassan, the students turn to a reporter and several talk animatedly about the hijab controversy in France, where the head covering was banned from public schools.
"You need to write very clearly about this," admonishes Fatima, 25, who studied engineering at college. "This is about religious freedom. The hijab is a sign of our faith, like Christians wearing a cross. Why shouldn't we be allowed to wear it?"
A Publishing Revival
During the first Ramadan after Saddam Hussein's fall, the city fathers of the holy city of Najaf put on a book fair with the help of the Iranian Publishers Assn. Tens of thousands thronged to the event, which was part religious exhibition, part intellectual feast and part reminder of Iran's influence in today's Iraq. Iran is also predominantly Shiite.
On the opening day, the dignitaries of the city come in droves.
The wives and daughters of the learned of Najaf, one of two centers of religious teaching in the Shiite world, stand in a small clump, laughing and excited.
At the fair, Hassan Najafi rubs shoulders with clerics, professors and politicians. Najafi is a leader of the Badr organization, a Shiite armed force trained by the Iranian national guard during the Hussein years. Its members are reportedly disarming, but the militia is thought to retain close ties to Iranian intelligence and to be prepared to rearm at a moment's notice.
"Among Saddam's crimes and oppressions was that he forbade Shiite writing and publishing and the importation of books from outside," Najafi says. "After the removal of the Baath regime, Iraqis are thirsty for such things, and Najaf has a special history because it is the capital of the Shiites, and because it's the capital of poets and writers.
"So Iraqis in general, but especially the sons of the Shiites, are thirsty to read and write."
Booksellers at the fair offer various editions of the Koran, many elaborately bound, and other accouterments to prayer: carved wooden Koran holders and prayer rugs. At the hour for the midday prayer, the place empties out. Several young women, fully veiled except for their faces, cannot tear themselves away and linger even as a bookseller begins to cover his wares with a plastic sheet.
"We are looking for political, cultural and religious books," Sama Koraishi, 21, says.
"I would like to be a mujtahid," she says, using the term for a formal student of religion, and her friend nods. "Our uncles are sheiks," Koraishi says. "It is our family tradition."
As the merchant closes his stall, her friend buys a book of supplications. "It was forbidden during Saddam's time," she says, smiling broadly, tucking the book into a large black purse.
All day long, crowds flock to an exhibition of photos of the late Iranian Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, many lining up to write prayers and requests to the cleric, who died in 1989. The letters are to be put on his grave.
A New Role in Politics
As the enthusiasm for Khomeini suggests, the Shiites' reclamation of their cultural identity mingles with the possibility of a political identification that could worry Iraq's other neighbors — and the United States.
Whether the political revolution will lead to a theocratic government is not yet clear. Until recently, Iraq's government has been subject to the moderating influence of the Americans, and Shiite politicians are only now taking over a more independent government.
"There's a dark side and a light side to this revival," said Jalil Roshandel, a professor of political science at Duke University who specializes in Middle Eastern international relations. "We should not eliminate the possibility that Iraq will turn toward a more absolutist rule by clerics."
Although active primarily in the religious space of the mosque, the Shiite religious hierarchy has been an architect of the surge in politics. The imams have used the pulpit, particularly at Friday prayer, attended by hundreds of thousands of Shiites nationwide, to instruct the faithful in political action — whether to vote, whom to vote for and when to turn out on the street in mass protests to ensure their political rights.
Sistani, the senior Iraqi Shiite cleric, pushed hard for a general election to ensure Shiite hegemony and engineered the creation of a broad slate of Shiite candidates to ensure that the sect did not fracture into small, powerless groups.
Most Shiite leaders would like to see Iraq become an Islamic state, but they believe that such an outcome is an ideal and thus far have appeared reconciled to a combination of Islamic and secular law.
The Islamic Dawa Party, which represents some of the most hard-line Shiites and is the party of new Prime Minister Ibrahim Jafari, took a conciliatory line in the months following the invasion.
"Our goal is an Islamic state — we are Muslims," said Qasim Sahlani, who was running the Dawa Party office shortly after the fall of Baghdad. "But only if people want it. But if not, we will continue to try to persuade people peacefully."
Their line has changed little since then, and Dawa and others have backed the idea of a constitution that makes Sharia one of the bases for Iraqi law rather than the only one.
Jafari himself, while conservative on such issues as whether religious or secular law should be relied on for domestic matters such as marriage, divorce and inheritance, recently told a small group of reporters that he was reading a biography of one of America's founding fathers, George Washington.
So far, the Shiites have shown restraint, despite the wrongs done them in the past and the present — including repeated attacks by assassins and suicide bombers. But now that they control key ministries, including Interior, it would be surprising if some Shiite leaders did not turn a blind eye toward efforts to avenge the deaths of sons and brothers, said a senior Western diplomat in Iraq who has spent years in the region.
In fact, apparent revenge killings of Sunnis and Shiites alike have become increasingly common.
"This is a revolution," the diplomat said. "The only question is how violent will it be."
Talib, one of the pulpit singers, described his joy at his rediscovered tradition with a zeal that could go in many directions.
"When you are reciting the [Imam] Hussein poems, it's an Islamic act, a jihad act, but it's an intellectual jihad," he said, "so I will not be considered a terrorist for my singing."
*
(BEGIN TEXT OF INFOBOX)
Shiites rising
Shiites are a minority among Muslims worldwide but the majority in Iraq. They wield more power since the fall of Saddam Hussein, a Sunni.
*
Muslims worldwide
Sunni: 85-90%
Shiite: 10-15%
*
Religions in Iraq
Shiite: 60-65%
Sunni: 32-37%
Other: 3%
*
Differences
The split in Islam occurred more than 1,000 years ago with the death of the prophet Muhammad, and centers on succession to Muhammad. Both sects revere the Koran as Islam's holy book, but differ in the performance of prayers.
Sunnis
* Recognize all four caliphs after Muhammad, including Ali, as legitimate successors and do not require blood ties to the prophet as a qualification to be leader
* Reject the Shiite line of imams and hold that Muhammad and the Koran are the only two authorities of religion
* Leaders have historically been more heads of state than religious authorities
* Lack an elaborate clergy and allow lay people to lead prayers
* Seen by Westerners as more staid, moderate and open to the world
Shiites
* Reject the first three successors (caliphs) after Muhammad as usurpers
* Regard Ali, the fourth caliph, and Muhammad's cousin and son-in-law, as the first caliph or imam, the term they use for the head of the community
* Hold that imams are sinless and must be obeyed on all matters; each imam appoints his successor, who must be of Muhammad's bloodline
* Believe imams are both religious and political heads
* Seen by Westerners as more orthodox, zealous and less open to outside influence
*
Sources: Congressional Research Service, Center for History and New Media, understanding-islam.com, Times reporting, Wikipedia, CIA World Factbook
Graphics reporting by Tom Reinken and Scott Wilson
Where is this all leading towards? What if through proper education and reflection of the current circumstances they come to realize that the Mahdi is not hiding but should be living and that he is MHI. At the same time we are also witnessing a rapid growth in our institutional capacity well beyond the scope of our Jamat. I think the AKDN is gradually getting involved in Iran and we have had collaborative scholarly activities between the IIS and the respective institutions of Iran. Through these endeavors MHI is building bridges with the other Shias. In my opinion it won't be to long before they ask him for leadership and guidance.
In an interview relating to the war in Iraq with La Croix, MHI was asked: "What experience can you bring, in your capacity as Head of the Ismaili Community?" To which he answered: "Ismaili Shiism has a living Imam, who lives in the world, [and] has a great number of contacts. I observe the changes [in the world] and, in so far as possible, I anticipate the manner in which to build institutions which meet the needs of Ismailis. We do not have, in the Ismaili Community, a sole ethnic group, a sole [spoken] language, a sole religious history. I pay attention to this pluralism of traditions. I situate my actions in the context of the [current] times. I have lived through decolonization, the end of the Cold War, the creation of Bangladesh, the Iranian Revolution. In the face of these situations, it was necessary to reflect, to anticipate, to respond to necessities. My grandfather gave, and I have myself given, a certain interpretation to Shiism. The intellect is seen as a facet of faith, in the service of faith. Reason, reflection, form part of the process of decision making. This reflection is wished, is necessary in the interpretation of religion. This is one of the elements which has made it possible for the Ismaili Community to respond to the problems of [the modern world]."
In my opinion the above answer expresses MHI's willingness to help and that he has the relevant qualifications (in worldly manner) in terms of his leadership of the Jamat through the crisis of recent history.
Here is the article...
THE CONFLICT IN IRAQ
Piety And Power
Shiite Muslims, a majority in Iraq who were oppressed under Saddam Hussein's rule, savor new religious freedom and political clout.
By Alissa J. Rubin
Times Staff Writer
May 8, 2005
The Shiite revolution in Iraq burst into public view barely 10 days after the fall of Saddam Hussein. Without his troops to forbid them, Shiite Muslim pilgrims began to throng Iraq's highways as the festival of Arbayeen neared, the women's black abayas flowing behind them in the breeze as if flocks of crows had taken to the roads.
At almost every hamlet along the route to the holy city of Karbala, volunteers scattered plastic chairs and tables and offered sweet tea, water, bread. The mood on the eve of the festival was one of exhilaration, exuberance — and resolution. Everyone seemed to know why he or she was there. This was celebration, but also a moment of solidarity.
No one said, "Never again," but that was the subtext. Never again would Iraq's majority Shiites be denied the right to practice their religion. Never again would they be taken out and slaughtered just because they were suspected of disloyalty to the government. Never again would they be at the bottom of the heap.
Two years later, that revolution reached its apotheosis with the swearing-in last week of a Cabinet in which more than half the ministers are Shiite, including the prime minister. For the first time in its nearly 80-year history, Iraq is controlled by the religious descendants of the ancient battle of Karbala, a key event in the sect's early history.
The emergence of political control is just one facet of a much broader Shiite renaissance in Iraq that has transformed the country's social and cultural life.
Pilgrims jostle for space with the peddlers of religious souvenirs who fill the streets leading to the Imam Ali Mosque in Najaf, offering devotional tracts and garish prayer rugs emblazoned with depictions of favorite imams.
Scores of new Shiite religious schools offer Koran classes to boys and girls in central and southern Iraq. In poetry, music and book publishing, Shiites are openly reviving traditions that were brutally stifled by Hussein's Sunni-led Baath Party.
Most of the world's Muslims are Sunnis, who diverge little with Shiites in their core beliefs; the doctrinal roots of their difference lie in a disagreement over the rightful successor to the prophet Muhammad, the founder of Islam.
Battles fought 13 centuries ago over the leadership of the Muslims are at the core of Shiite beliefs, which, like the Catholic faith, is rife with saints, blood and martyrdom and boasts a rigorous intellectual tradition. The Shiites are in essence a people on pilgrimage, living over and over — as some Christians do the passion of Christ — the wrongs that were done them.
Often, pilgrims will weep as they describe the final battle of Muhammad's grandson, Imam Hussein, near Karbala as if it had happened yesterday and they had known him personally.
"There began to be a revival of the life and the body of Shiites more than 25 years ago," says Talal Talib, 33, a singer of religious music. "But then we were practicing in secret. Now we are practicing in the middle of the streets."
A Music Once Silenced
The heart of Baghdad's Shiite life is in Kadhimiya, one of the city's oldest neighborhoods. Cantilevered windows lean out from wooden houses over the narrow dirt streets; the outdoor market is so thick with merchants' booths that each awning touches the next. Small wooden doorways lead into warrens of tiny shops, apothecaries, barbers and cloth sellers.
At the very back of one of these dark hallways is a small jewelry store no more than 6 feet across and perhaps 8 or 9 feet deep. On a February afternoon, four men are inside, two of them chatting and the other two etching religious messages in fine calligraphy onto gold jewelry.
A small boy rushes in periodically with trays of heavily sugared tea. Portraits of revered Shiite leaders watch over the proceedings: Mohammed Sadeq Sadr, with his snow-white beard, and his darker-bearded brother, Mohammed Bakr Sadr. Both are believed to have been assassinated on Hussein's orders.
The hunched jewelers are more than craftsmen. They are the "poets of the Husseini pulpit," singers from a tradition stretching back more than 10 centuries. They sing the story of the martyrdom of Imam Hussein, in versions ancient and contemporary, urban and Bedouin.
It is a form of a cappella music that strikes a chord in almost every Shiite who hears it, seeming at once ancient and utterly current. The men in the shop are reciters, or singers; generally, the poems have been handed down through an oral tradition or are written by contemporaries.
"Most of my thinking is spiritual. I go deeper and deeper into each word I utter and also have before my eyes the image of the death of Imam Hussein," Haider abu Ameer, 23, says as he pauses in his engraving. Then, he lays down his tools and begins to sing.
The melody is lilting, yet carries a sadness so eloquent it brings many listeners to tears. The sound fills the small shop and seeps out under the door. It draws neighborhood children who, their noses pressed to the glass, listen from outside.
Ameer closes his eyes as his voice rises and falls by half and quarter tones.
Much more than a jewelry shop, this is a gathering place for Husseini pulpit singers. Many of them work the two jobs — engraver and singer.
"There have been attempts over the centuries to extinguish the tradition of the Husseini pulpit," says the singer Talib, 33, sitting in the shop listening to the conversation, a white shawl covering his head. "But it has been around for 1,400 years. There is no end to such a school. Saddam's regime tried to diminish us as well, but we were able to continue."
The Kadhimiya neighborhood has two flourishing schools that teach the art of Husseini pulpit singing. There are more in other Shiite areas of Baghdad as well as in Najaf and Karbala. Some graduates of the four-year schools become professionals and sing at religious festivals; others confine their performances to their own families. Some become teachers or travel to start Husseini pulpit schools in other places.
The singers, in demand for weddings and funerals, are almost always present on the Shiites' high holidays, when corps of men walk in formation, alternately clapping their hands, beating their chests and hitting themselves with ropes or chains, as poets of the pulpit sing Imam Hussein's story.
"The suffering which we have lived under is part of a cycle of actions and reactions," Talib says. "And our suffering is rewarded by God."
Islamic Education
The signs began to appear in the Shiite neighborhoods of Baghdad and in the larger cities across southern Iraq just a few months after Saddam Hussein's disappearance from the capital. "Classes in Koran, Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays," and then, "Classes for Girls and Boys."
By the fall of 2003, announcements blared from mosque loudspeakers. One proclaimed, "We are calling all women to join religious school. Secondary school certificates necessary. They will have to pass an exam. Classes start Saturday. Registration is at the Kadhimiya hospital."
And women came. At first in small groups, then dozens, then scores. The clerics who ran some of the schools puzzled over how to accommodate them. In strict Islamic settings, men and women must attend separate classes, sometimes even at different times of the day.
"We started out just meeting once a week. Right away, we had to go to twice a week. Now we are trying to add a third class because the women want it," Salah Ubaidi says at a low-slung, modern Arab house in Kadhimiya donated by a wealthy Shiite from the United Arab Emirates for use as a religious school.
In Iraq, Shiite clerics, including Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani, encourage women to take part in politics and pursue an education, although they expect them to wear head scarves and abayas. In the domestic sphere, women are expected to allow their rights to be governed by Sharia — Islamic law.
On that particular day, the instruction is for men. In the classrooms for theology lessons, students sit on rugs, and instead of desks there are rows of low wooden Koran holders that — like the stands on which preachers place the Bible — allow the book to stay open.
Other classrooms have rows of computers, and just before lunch a class gets underway in how to use the Internet for research.
In another Shiite neighborhood, a 100-year-old school that had been used by the Baath Party as a neighborhood headquarters is searching for a female teacher. Sheik Hassan Tuaima, who teaches women twice a week in two-hour sessions, needs the help.
In a neon-lighted classroom, about 25 women ranging from their late teens to their 40s, one or two quieting children they have brought along, listen closely to Hassan's lecture. Several interrupt him with questions, and Hassan looks away as he answers. In Iraqi Muslim culture, it is considered rude for a man to look a woman in the eye when he is speaking to her.
After class, as they drink juice with Hassan, the students turn to a reporter and several talk animatedly about the hijab controversy in France, where the head covering was banned from public schools.
"You need to write very clearly about this," admonishes Fatima, 25, who studied engineering at college. "This is about religious freedom. The hijab is a sign of our faith, like Christians wearing a cross. Why shouldn't we be allowed to wear it?"
A Publishing Revival
During the first Ramadan after Saddam Hussein's fall, the city fathers of the holy city of Najaf put on a book fair with the help of the Iranian Publishers Assn. Tens of thousands thronged to the event, which was part religious exhibition, part intellectual feast and part reminder of Iran's influence in today's Iraq. Iran is also predominantly Shiite.
On the opening day, the dignitaries of the city come in droves.
The wives and daughters of the learned of Najaf, one of two centers of religious teaching in the Shiite world, stand in a small clump, laughing and excited.
At the fair, Hassan Najafi rubs shoulders with clerics, professors and politicians. Najafi is a leader of the Badr organization, a Shiite armed force trained by the Iranian national guard during the Hussein years. Its members are reportedly disarming, but the militia is thought to retain close ties to Iranian intelligence and to be prepared to rearm at a moment's notice.
"Among Saddam's crimes and oppressions was that he forbade Shiite writing and publishing and the importation of books from outside," Najafi says. "After the removal of the Baath regime, Iraqis are thirsty for such things, and Najaf has a special history because it is the capital of the Shiites, and because it's the capital of poets and writers.
"So Iraqis in general, but especially the sons of the Shiites, are thirsty to read and write."
Booksellers at the fair offer various editions of the Koran, many elaborately bound, and other accouterments to prayer: carved wooden Koran holders and prayer rugs. At the hour for the midday prayer, the place empties out. Several young women, fully veiled except for their faces, cannot tear themselves away and linger even as a bookseller begins to cover his wares with a plastic sheet.
"We are looking for political, cultural and religious books," Sama Koraishi, 21, says.
"I would like to be a mujtahid," she says, using the term for a formal student of religion, and her friend nods. "Our uncles are sheiks," Koraishi says. "It is our family tradition."
As the merchant closes his stall, her friend buys a book of supplications. "It was forbidden during Saddam's time," she says, smiling broadly, tucking the book into a large black purse.
All day long, crowds flock to an exhibition of photos of the late Iranian Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, many lining up to write prayers and requests to the cleric, who died in 1989. The letters are to be put on his grave.
A New Role in Politics
As the enthusiasm for Khomeini suggests, the Shiites' reclamation of their cultural identity mingles with the possibility of a political identification that could worry Iraq's other neighbors — and the United States.
Whether the political revolution will lead to a theocratic government is not yet clear. Until recently, Iraq's government has been subject to the moderating influence of the Americans, and Shiite politicians are only now taking over a more independent government.
"There's a dark side and a light side to this revival," said Jalil Roshandel, a professor of political science at Duke University who specializes in Middle Eastern international relations. "We should not eliminate the possibility that Iraq will turn toward a more absolutist rule by clerics."
Although active primarily in the religious space of the mosque, the Shiite religious hierarchy has been an architect of the surge in politics. The imams have used the pulpit, particularly at Friday prayer, attended by hundreds of thousands of Shiites nationwide, to instruct the faithful in political action — whether to vote, whom to vote for and when to turn out on the street in mass protests to ensure their political rights.
Sistani, the senior Iraqi Shiite cleric, pushed hard for a general election to ensure Shiite hegemony and engineered the creation of a broad slate of Shiite candidates to ensure that the sect did not fracture into small, powerless groups.
Most Shiite leaders would like to see Iraq become an Islamic state, but they believe that such an outcome is an ideal and thus far have appeared reconciled to a combination of Islamic and secular law.
The Islamic Dawa Party, which represents some of the most hard-line Shiites and is the party of new Prime Minister Ibrahim Jafari, took a conciliatory line in the months following the invasion.
"Our goal is an Islamic state — we are Muslims," said Qasim Sahlani, who was running the Dawa Party office shortly after the fall of Baghdad. "But only if people want it. But if not, we will continue to try to persuade people peacefully."
Their line has changed little since then, and Dawa and others have backed the idea of a constitution that makes Sharia one of the bases for Iraqi law rather than the only one.
Jafari himself, while conservative on such issues as whether religious or secular law should be relied on for domestic matters such as marriage, divorce and inheritance, recently told a small group of reporters that he was reading a biography of one of America's founding fathers, George Washington.
So far, the Shiites have shown restraint, despite the wrongs done them in the past and the present — including repeated attacks by assassins and suicide bombers. But now that they control key ministries, including Interior, it would be surprising if some Shiite leaders did not turn a blind eye toward efforts to avenge the deaths of sons and brothers, said a senior Western diplomat in Iraq who has spent years in the region.
In fact, apparent revenge killings of Sunnis and Shiites alike have become increasingly common.
"This is a revolution," the diplomat said. "The only question is how violent will it be."
Talib, one of the pulpit singers, described his joy at his rediscovered tradition with a zeal that could go in many directions.
"When you are reciting the [Imam] Hussein poems, it's an Islamic act, a jihad act, but it's an intellectual jihad," he said, "so I will not be considered a terrorist for my singing."
*
(BEGIN TEXT OF INFOBOX)
Shiites rising
Shiites are a minority among Muslims worldwide but the majority in Iraq. They wield more power since the fall of Saddam Hussein, a Sunni.
*
Muslims worldwide
Sunni: 85-90%
Shiite: 10-15%
*
Religions in Iraq
Shiite: 60-65%
Sunni: 32-37%
Other: 3%
*
Differences
The split in Islam occurred more than 1,000 years ago with the death of the prophet Muhammad, and centers on succession to Muhammad. Both sects revere the Koran as Islam's holy book, but differ in the performance of prayers.
Sunnis
* Recognize all four caliphs after Muhammad, including Ali, as legitimate successors and do not require blood ties to the prophet as a qualification to be leader
* Reject the Shiite line of imams and hold that Muhammad and the Koran are the only two authorities of religion
* Leaders have historically been more heads of state than religious authorities
* Lack an elaborate clergy and allow lay people to lead prayers
* Seen by Westerners as more staid, moderate and open to the world
Shiites
* Reject the first three successors (caliphs) after Muhammad as usurpers
* Regard Ali, the fourth caliph, and Muhammad's cousin and son-in-law, as the first caliph or imam, the term they use for the head of the community
* Hold that imams are sinless and must be obeyed on all matters; each imam appoints his successor, who must be of Muhammad's bloodline
* Believe imams are both religious and political heads
* Seen by Westerners as more orthodox, zealous and less open to outside influence
*
Sources: Congressional Research Service, Center for History and New Media, understanding-islam.com, Times reporting, Wikipedia, CIA World Factbook
Graphics reporting by Tom Reinken and Scott Wilson
Excellent! I am looking forward to this thread. Before I read the article, I wanted to ask you from an educated point-of-view can you put a time to the "unity" of shias in Iraq/Iran? Furthermore, I had once read a portion of a farman where MSMS had said Ithna Ashari's will be eliminted in about 100 years (this was said in 1899 if I am not mistaken). 100 years can give or take, of course. So that time would be around now.
Any comments on the entire above?
Thanks!
S786
Any comments on the entire above?
Thanks!
S786
-
star_munir
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Ya Ali Madad,
This is not a Farman of Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah and I think you have read it in anti ismaili website that within 100 years isnashris will be eliminted.
It is a trick of former ismaili to write out of 10, 8 correct things and 2 fake things so every one can believe that lie to be correct. He quoted Farmans from KIM and in reference wrote the name of book KIM so is with other books but when he quoted this Farman he just wrote the year and from a Gujrati book..he not named the book because there isny any Farman like this..
This is not a Farman of Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah and I think you have read it in anti ismaili website that within 100 years isnashris will be eliminted.
It is a trick of former ismaili to write out of 10, 8 correct things and 2 fake things so every one can believe that lie to be correct. He quoted Farmans from KIM and in reference wrote the name of book KIM so is with other books but when he quoted this Farman he just wrote the year and from a Gujrati book..he not named the book because there isny any Farman like this..
As for the unity, it is anyones guess. To me it looks pretty close. There are good circumstances and reasons for it to occur for their mutual benefit.s786 wrote:Excellent! I am looking forward to this thread. Before I read the article, I wanted to ask you from an educated point-of-view can you put a time to the "unity" of shias in Iraq/Iran? Furthermore, I had once read a portion of a farman where MSMS had said Ithna Ashari's will be eliminted in about 100 years (this was said in 1899 if I am not mistaken). 100 years can give or take, of course. So that time would be around now.
Any comments on the entire above?
Thanks!
S786
On the Farman, I think there is no direct reference to Ithnasheris but the Imam did mention religions not based on reason will disappear. The following are Farmans that were quoted in another discussion in this forum.
" Deens(religions) that are not based on reason ( intellect) will disappear gradually." (ISMS)
" Your Deen will open up gradually like the Sun. Those who are wise, intelligent and knowledgeable among you will be pleased on seeing this." (ISMS 30-3-1908)
"Be firm in your Ismaili Deen..... Light of our Deen will be evident like the light of the rising Sun" (ISMS 4-4-1908)
While on this topic (that not many people are posting to) I have a question.
We as Shia Imami Ismaili Muslims feel and trust that our current Imam, Hazar Imam is the rightful hereditary descendant of Prophet Mohammed and Hazrat Ali... correct?
What about the Imams the Ithnashari's believe in? I understand from 1-5 we believe in the same. But what about from 6-12? Would you say they weren't "authentic" holders of the "Noor"???
Thanks!
S786
PS: Once again, no Ginanic literature... we're talking about the time immediately post our 5th Imam.
We as Shia Imami Ismaili Muslims feel and trust that our current Imam, Hazar Imam is the rightful hereditary descendant of Prophet Mohammed and Hazrat Ali... correct?
What about the Imams the Ithnashari's believe in? I understand from 1-5 we believe in the same. But what about from 6-12? Would you say they weren't "authentic" holders of the "Noor"???
Thanks!
S786
PS: Once again, no Ginanic literature... we're talking about the time immediately post our 5th Imam.
Yes...the Imams' themselves have claimed it. Here are two pertinent quotes from the "Memoirs of Agakhan" by Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah.s786 wrote: We as Shia Imami Ismaili Muslims feel and trust that our current Imam, Hazar Imam is the rightful hereditary descendant of Prophet Mohammed and Hazrat Ali... correct?.
"The Shias have therefore always held that after the Prophet's death, Divine power, guidance and leadership manifested themselves in Hazrat Ali as the first Imam or spiritual chief of the devout."
"Of the Shias there are many subdivisions; some of them believe that this spiritual headship, this Imamat which was Hazrat Ali's, descended through him in the six generation to Ismail from whom I myself claim my descent and my Imamat."
Yes, otherwise this "Noor" would be manifest and not hidden.s786 wrote: What about the Imams the Ithnashari's believe in? I understand from 1-5 we believe in the same. But what about from 6-12? Would you say they weren't "authentic" holders of the "Noor"???.
Some pertinent quotes from the memoirs.
"The Imam is thus the successor of the Prophet in his religious capacity; he is the man who must be obeyed and who dwells among those from whom he commands spiritual obedience."
"Still others, including the vast majority of the people of Persia, and Indian Shias, believe that the Imamat is now held by a living Imam, the twelfth from Ali, who has never died, who is alive and has lived thirteen hundred years among us, unseen but seeing; those who profess this doctrine are known as the Asna Asharis."
Ya Ali Madad,
Some thoughts regarding the Ithna Ashari Imamate:
- According to Ismaili tradition, Imam Jafar as-Sadiq sent Imam Ismail away to protect him from Abbassid persecution.
- When Imam Jafar as-Sadiq died, the succession was split between at least 6 sons.
- Most Shiites rallied around Musa Kazim as the next Imam. A few years later, the Abbassids realized this and arrested Musa Kazim. They also continued to search for the whereabouts of the Ismaili Imams.
- The Ismaili Line of Imams went into complete concealment and directed the Ismaili Dawat (Summons) in secret.
- Meanwhile, the Ithna Ashari Line of Imams lived openly, exposed to Abbassid persecution. Interestingly, all Ithna Ashari Imams (besides the 12th) were martyred by the Abbassids.
- While this went on, the Ismaili Imams set the groundwork for the Fatimid Caliphate.
- Interestingly, no Ithna Ashari Imam ever refuted the claims of the Ismaili Line.
- More interestingly, a few decades after the Ithna Ashari Imam al-Mahdi disappeared....the Ismaili Imam Mahdi revealed himself and established the Fatimid Caliphate.
- Another note: the Ismaili Imam al-Mahdi (11th Imam) was the 9th generation descendant of Imam Husayn. Ithna Ashari prophecies state that al-Mahdi would also be the 9th generation of Imam Husayn.
- The Ithna Ashari Imams provided the necessary cover for the Ismaili Imams. When the line was no longer needed, it disappeared. Many Imami Ithna Asharies converted to Ismailism shortly after the 12th Imam disappeared.
Some thoughts regarding the Ithna Ashari Imamate:
- According to Ismaili tradition, Imam Jafar as-Sadiq sent Imam Ismail away to protect him from Abbassid persecution.
- When Imam Jafar as-Sadiq died, the succession was split between at least 6 sons.
- Most Shiites rallied around Musa Kazim as the next Imam. A few years later, the Abbassids realized this and arrested Musa Kazim. They also continued to search for the whereabouts of the Ismaili Imams.
- The Ismaili Line of Imams went into complete concealment and directed the Ismaili Dawat (Summons) in secret.
- Meanwhile, the Ithna Ashari Line of Imams lived openly, exposed to Abbassid persecution. Interestingly, all Ithna Ashari Imams (besides the 12th) were martyred by the Abbassids.
- While this went on, the Ismaili Imams set the groundwork for the Fatimid Caliphate.
- Interestingly, no Ithna Ashari Imam ever refuted the claims of the Ismaili Line.
- More interestingly, a few decades after the Ithna Ashari Imam al-Mahdi disappeared....the Ismaili Imam Mahdi revealed himself and established the Fatimid Caliphate.
- Another note: the Ismaili Imam al-Mahdi (11th Imam) was the 9th generation descendant of Imam Husayn. Ithna Ashari prophecies state that al-Mahdi would also be the 9th generation of Imam Husayn.
- The Ithna Ashari Imams provided the necessary cover for the Ismaili Imams. When the line was no longer needed, it disappeared. Many Imami Ithna Asharies converted to Ismailism shortly after the 12th Imam disappeared.
YAM,kandani wrote:Ya Ali Madad,
Some thoughts regarding the Ithna Ashari Imamate:
- The Ithna Ashari Imams provided the necessary cover for the Ismaili Imams. When the line was no longer needed, it disappeared. Many Imami Ithna Asharies converted to Ismailism shortly after the 12th Imam disappeared.
Your thoughts are very pertinent and interesting but this was most striking indicating a Divine purpose in concealing real Imamat with a false one.
Perhaps in the modern era this concealment still exists. Real Imamat has been concealed by the false one. This apparent concealment will hopefully end as I alluded to in my earlier post and which could lead to the revelation and manifestation of the real Mahdi.
Please explain. How can they be the 9th generation? One is the 11th Imam the other is the 13th Imam.kandani wrote: - Another note: the Ismaili Imam al-Mahdi (11th Imam) was the 9th generation descendant of Imam Husayn. Ithna Ashari prophecies state that al-Mahdi would also be the 9th generation of Imam Husayn.
Thanks
S786
The Ithna Ashari Imam Mahdi is supposedly the 9th generation from Imam Husayn.
The Ismaili Imam Mahdi is the 9th generation from Imam Husayn.
The Ithna Ashari Imam al-Mahdi is 12th in their list because they count Imam Hasan in their list of Imams.
The Ismaili Imam al-Mahdi is 11th in our list because we count Imam Hasan as a Pir or Entrusted Imam (Imam-i Mustawda) as opposed to the Shah or Permanent Imam (Imam-i Mustaqarr).
Nevertheless, Ismaili Imam al-Mahdi is the 9th generation descendant from Imam Husayn.
The Ismaili Imam Mahdi is the 9th generation from Imam Husayn.
The Ithna Ashari Imam al-Mahdi is 12th in their list because they count Imam Hasan in their list of Imams.
The Ismaili Imam al-Mahdi is 11th in our list because we count Imam Hasan as a Pir or Entrusted Imam (Imam-i Mustawda) as opposed to the Shah or Permanent Imam (Imam-i Mustaqarr).
Nevertheless, Ismaili Imam al-Mahdi is the 9th generation descendant from Imam Husayn.
"When Nabi Mohammed Mustafa departed from this world he appointed Pir Imam Hasan as his successor to carry on the work. Similarly, Murtaza Ali appointed Imam Husayn as the Imam after him." (Gujrati Farman book 'Kutchh na Farman' pages 8-9.)
From the above Farman one may surmise that there were two kinds of understanding of Imamat right at the time of the Prophet. One was the Zaheri understanding wherein the Imam was considered the inheritor of the Prophethood and the other was the Batini understanding wherein the Prophet introduced the Imamat. It is the latter that has continued to be part of our tradition.
It appears that the ones who considered Imam Hassan as the second Imam did not have this Batini understanding, that he was appointed by Prophet Muhammad as the Pir. Hence, in my opinion the Ithna asheris have never had this notion of the Pir. They consider the Imam as the one who inherited the Prophet.
From the above Farman one may surmise that there were two kinds of understanding of Imamat right at the time of the Prophet. One was the Zaheri understanding wherein the Imam was considered the inheritor of the Prophethood and the other was the Batini understanding wherein the Prophet introduced the Imamat. It is the latter that has continued to be part of our tradition.
It appears that the ones who considered Imam Hassan as the second Imam did not have this Batini understanding, that he was appointed by Prophet Muhammad as the Pir. Hence, in my opinion the Ithna asheris have never had this notion of the Pir. They consider the Imam as the one who inherited the Prophet.
"Perhaps in the modern era this concealment still exists. Real Imamat has been concealed by the false one. This apparent concealment will hopefully end as I alluded to in my earlier post and which could lead to the revelation and manifestation of the real Mahdi."
Are you saying that MHI is not the real Imam, that he doesn't bear the Nur?
Are you saying that MHI is not the real Imam, that he doesn't bear the Nur?
By concealment, I meant it in a broader historical perspective. The rest of the world (or history) when it considers Shia Islam, it only sees it through the context of the twelver Shias since they are the majority. This conceals the true Imamat which is ours.tasbiha wrote:Are you saying that MHI is not the real Imam, that he doesn't bear the Nur?
As I mentioned this concealment will gradually disappear as MHI becomes more recognised and he becomes increasingly involved in international affairs especially related to Shia Islam.
KMaherali,
You ALWAYS make intelligent posts on this forum.
Just to add to what you said:
All Sufi, Sunni, and Shiite traditions accept the concept of the Noor of Prophet Muhammad.
The (Twelver) Shiites believe the Twelve Imams were the inheritors of the Light of Muhammad.
The Sunnis believe that the Light is always spirituall present but not manifest through a single human being.
The Sufis believe the Light of Muhammad is spiritually present and that the the Sufi Saints or Friends of Allah (Awliya) are elevated souls which receive effusion from this Light.
In the Ismaili Tariqa (according to this particular school of thought), it is the Holy Pir or Imam-i Mustawda who is the bearer or mazhar of the Light of Muhammmad.
Furthermore, there is the additional concept of the Noor of Ali of which the Holy Imam or Imam-i Mustaqarr is the bearer.
In my personal opinion, the prophecies that speak of Imam Mahdi rising with Prophet Jesus refer to the future activities of the Imam and Pir at the end of a cycle.
You ALWAYS make intelligent posts on this forum.
Just to add to what you said:
All Sufi, Sunni, and Shiite traditions accept the concept of the Noor of Prophet Muhammad.
The (Twelver) Shiites believe the Twelve Imams were the inheritors of the Light of Muhammad.
The Sunnis believe that the Light is always spirituall present but not manifest through a single human being.
The Sufis believe the Light of Muhammad is spiritually present and that the the Sufi Saints or Friends of Allah (Awliya) are elevated souls which receive effusion from this Light.
In the Ismaili Tariqa (according to this particular school of thought), it is the Holy Pir or Imam-i Mustawda who is the bearer or mazhar of the Light of Muhammmad.
Furthermore, there is the additional concept of the Noor of Ali of which the Holy Imam or Imam-i Mustaqarr is the bearer.
In my personal opinion, the prophecies that speak of Imam Mahdi rising with Prophet Jesus refer to the future activities of the Imam and Pir at the end of a cycle.
I would like to share my further reflections on this issue as under.
The dual nature of the understanding of Imamat viz a viz, the Zaheri and the Batini ( as explained in my earlier post)existed throughout the formative period of Shia Islam; that is, between the Imam Ali and Imam Jaffer as Saddiq. Not all Shias who accepted Aly as a successor agreed on the nature of Imamat. As a matter of fact the doctrine of "Nass" and "special knowledge" crystallized later during the time of Imam Baqir.
The tension between the two views necessitated Imam Jaffer Sadiq to send the real Imam - Imam Ismail into concealment to avoid internal strife as well as protection from the Abbasids. Not all Shias had developed the capacity to understand the dual aspects of Imamat - Mustaqarr/Mustawda.
I would venture to say that this dual understanding prevails even today within the diversity of our Jamat. The Nasr Khusraw context represents the Zaheri understanding and the Ginanic tradition represents the Batini understanding.
The dual nature of the understanding of Imamat viz a viz, the Zaheri and the Batini ( as explained in my earlier post)existed throughout the formative period of Shia Islam; that is, between the Imam Ali and Imam Jaffer as Saddiq. Not all Shias who accepted Aly as a successor agreed on the nature of Imamat. As a matter of fact the doctrine of "Nass" and "special knowledge" crystallized later during the time of Imam Baqir.
The tension between the two views necessitated Imam Jaffer Sadiq to send the real Imam - Imam Ismail into concealment to avoid internal strife as well as protection from the Abbasids. Not all Shias had developed the capacity to understand the dual aspects of Imamat - Mustaqarr/Mustawda.
I would venture to say that this dual understanding prevails even today within the diversity of our Jamat. The Nasr Khusraw context represents the Zaheri understanding and the Ginanic tradition represents the Batini understanding.
Re: Hazar Imam to manifest as "The Mahdi" for othe
I think China (the government) had to march through the Silk Road first before that may happen. What I am saying is that if you look at the original Silk Road Route ("the Route") you'll notice that the governments (countries) North and South of the Route are very fanatic and monolithic understanding of Islam which makes them very volatile or states of concern (rouge states) and not the Democracy can not reign in people or governments that. If you ask Chinese government what is religion? They will tell you its politics. I think only communist government can get rid of religious fundamentalist notions and thinking.s786 wrote:I was speaking to someone very recently in Jamatkhana and he mentioned that one day Hazar Imam will manifest himself (I am not sure if this is the correct terminology or word) as the Mahdi towards the rest of the Shia sects. What does one on this forum have to say about that?
Thanks!
S786
I am not a fan of Abu Ali but for his fans, Abu-Ali had a lecture in 1979 in Toronto where he predicts 129 Years when the Imam would declare to the world. Also, something AbuAli drew from the Ginans that it would be the 51st Imam. Which is also been noted in Persian literature (which was available pre-revolution of the 70s).
Re: Hazar Imam to manifest as "The Mahdi" for othe
The references are there in Moman Chetamni, Farate Neja and Paar Fatine ginans, these agree with Persian literature of the 51st Imam, whose title will be Mahdi...unnalhaq wrote:I think China (the government) had to march through the Silk Road first before that may happen. What I am saying is that if you look at the original Silk Road Route ("the Route") you'll notice that the governments (countries) North and South of the Route are very fanatic and monolithic understanding of Islam which makes them very volatile or states of concern (rouge states) and not the Democracy can not reign in people or governments that. If you ask Chinese government what is religion? They will tell you its politics. I think only communist government can get rid of religious fundamentalist notions and thinking.s786 wrote:I was speaking to someone very recently in Jamatkhana and he mentioned that one day Hazar Imam will manifest himself (I am not sure if this is the correct terminology or word) as the Mahdi towards the rest of the Shia sects. What does one on this forum have to say about that?
Thanks!
S786
I am not a fan of Abu Ali but for his fans, Abu-Ali had a lecture in 1979 in Toronto where he predicts 129 Years when the Imam would declare to the world. Also, something AbuAli drew from the Ginans that it would be the 51st Imam. Which is also been noted in Persian literature (which was available pre-revolution of the 70s).
ShamsB
Re: Hazar Imam to manifest as "The Mahdi" for othe
Do the Ginans state explicitly the 51st Imam or just the title Mahdi? I did not think they did. Could you quote the verses. Thanks!ShamsB wrote:The references are there in Moman Chetamni, Farate Neja and Paar Fatine ginans, these agree with Persian literature of the 51st Imam, whose title will be Mahdi...
ShamsB
Re: Hazar Imam to manifest as "The Mahdi" for othe
The title or name or nickname is calling Him as Quiam. This is true for both Persian literature and I have been told also in Ginans, as memory serves me and someone have to go research this:kmaherali wrote:Do the Ginans state explicitly the 51st Imam or just the title Mahdi? I did not think they did. Could you quote the verses. Thanks!ShamsB wrote:The references are there in Moman Chetamni, Farate Neja and Paar Fatine ginans, these agree with Persian literature of the 51st Imam, whose title will be Mahdi...
ShamsB
The pir calls for momins to say steadfast/clever/lookout for Quiam King, when He comes/arrives...
Re: Hazar Imam to manifest as "The Mahdi" for othe
I am aware of that. My question was about number 51. It has not been mentioned in Ginans to my knowledge.unnalhaq wrote: The title or name or nickname is calling Him as Quiam. This is true for both Persian literature and I have been told also in Ginans, as memory serves me and someone have to go research this:
The pir calls for momins to say steadfast/clever/lookout for Quiam King, when He comes/arrives...
I was trying to say was that He is here with us. I know you are looking for an answer for which Ginan for tells about the 51st (actually it is 51 1/4, meaning after the 51st Imam takes office and .25 is something is a mystery to me). I am not a Ginan buff but I am sure there are people who understand and are able to translate it. The reference of 1979’s lecture of AbuAli’s in Canada, there was tapes made of it too. Someone I know was able to translate it (AbuAli's lecture) for me that night; I was fairly young at that time. You might want to try asking around for his tapes, and I am sure that you'll be able to find it.kmaherali wrote:Offcourse all our Imams are Qaims! But they are not the Qaim in the sense that this thread refers to.unnalhaq wrote:Lets celebrate who we have:
He is the 1st, the 7th, the 11th, the 13th, the 21, the 24th...the 49th and the 51st!
In his message to the Islamic Conference held in Amman Jordan, MHI identified us as belonging to the Jafari Madhhab (School of law). The following is the excerpt:
"Our historic adherence is to the Jafari Madhhab and other Madhahib of close affinity, and it continues, under the leadership of the hereditary Ismaili Imam of the time. This adherence is in harmony also with our acceptance of Sufi principles of personal search and balance between the zahir and the spirit or the intellect which the zahir signifies."
This Madhhab is also shared by the Ithna Asherias. As I was reflecting on the above statement, I felt that perhaps there is a hint that there may be a form of alliance within Shia Islam in the future and that the Imam may proclaim himself as a Mahdi.
"Our historic adherence is to the Jafari Madhhab and other Madhahib of close affinity, and it continues, under the leadership of the hereditary Ismaili Imam of the time. This adherence is in harmony also with our acceptance of Sufi principles of personal search and balance between the zahir and the spirit or the intellect which the zahir signifies."
This Madhhab is also shared by the Ithna Asherias. As I was reflecting on the above statement, I felt that perhaps there is a hint that there may be a form of alliance within Shia Islam in the future and that the Imam may proclaim himself as a Mahdi.
There seems to be a preponderance of this type of erroneous sentiment in these fora that somehow the ginanic tradition confers a greater insight to the Khoja and / or Indian subcontinent Ismailis. This is a supposition and hypothesis that is based merely on conjecture, and/or individual opinion. For example, IMSMS in KIM (one of the main sources of "support" for the theories of the writers herein) stated:kmaherali wrote:I would venture to say that this dual understanding prevails even today within the diversity of our Jamat. The Nasr Khusraw context represents the Zaheri understanding and the Ginanic tradition represents the Batini understanding.
"Do you know which town Pir Sadardin came from? If you read about his history, then you will know. You were Hindus and Pir Sadardin, from the Tafseer of the Qur'an-e-Shareef, created the ginans and explained ('recited') them to you. Those Arabs who are in our Deen (tariqah) they accept our Deen (tariqah) from the Qur'an-e-Shareef, and follow our Haqiqati path only from the Qur'an-e-Shareef, and follow it properly. Not only that, they are far more imaani than you."
The emphasis on ginanic poetry or implications that it has or confers greater "batini insight" to us who understand the ginans over our other fellow Ismailis, and somehow they "need to learn" the ginans as has been postulated in other threads, is erroneous.