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shivaathervedi · Post by **shivaathervedi** » Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:55 pm

kmaherali wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:Why are you writing HA and not clearly what you mean Hazrat Ali. You wrote God saw God means there were or are 2 Gods still seeing each other. When one is Hazrat Ali and other is Allah obviously these are 2 different entities. Do you believe in 2 God theory. Still if you say Imam is merged with God and become one unit does not mean Imam is God as Imam is Mazhar of God. There is difference in original and xerox copy. When a soul merges with Universal soul can't claim to be Universal soul..
When you a a friend to someone those superficial designations of respect melt away. You don't have to elaborate when the initials are obvious just as MHI means Mowlana Hazar Imam. In normal circumstances is it not possible to see yourself? In the same manner HA saw himself but with batini eyes not physical. There is only one God. We have been through why the Mazhar of God is also God himself. No need to start all over again.
shivaathervedi wrote: The couplets of Ginans you mentioned is Pir's humble request to Imam as Mushid e Kamil for eternal salvation and union because Imam is intercessor..
In the couplets the Pir is asking to open the curtain of separation. He is NOT asking for intercession.
shivaathervedi wrote: The Islamic and Ismaili tenets mentioned in Preamble are same for all individuals whether male or female, rich or poor, educated or highly scholastic, Mukhi or leader, alijah or waris.
The tenets are one, but their elaboration can have degrees depending upon individual capacity. On the issue of the Imam speaking different things to different audiences, there is a hadith of Imam al-Baqir:

There is a hadith of Imam al-Baqir (a.s.):
Zararah narrates that I asked a certain question to Imam al-Baqar (a.s.). He gave me its answer. Another person then asked the same question and the Imam gave him a different answer. Later a third person asked the same question, but the Imam's answer this time was different from the previous two answers. I then asked him: "O, the son of the Messenger (s.a.a.s)! The two persons who just came here to ask you questions were from Iraq and were Shias, yet you gave them contradictory answers". The Imam then answered: "O Zararah! This is good for me as well as for you and this will help us survive and prosper".
(Usool Al Kafi, p.37)

I am not discussing the topic Mazhar of Allah because you are dried up and I do not want to bother you on this subject. What I am discussing is your quotes that 'HA saw God with batni eyes' or 'Hazrat Ali saw himself'. Here question arises, Why HA wanted to see himself? Was there any beautiful mole on his beautiful face he wanted to see!! What is philosophy behind it that he wanted to see himself? When you say ' Hazrat Ali saw Allah with batni eyes, the question arises Ali saw Allah, so you are talking of 2 entities.
Regarding your abbreviation of HA, you never before wrote name of Mowla Ali in abbreviation, I was just curious.

You wrote," tenets are one but their elaboration can have degrees." My query is , do Imam ask one murid to say 2 parts of Du'a and to other to recite full Du'a. Du'a is compulsory for all, there is no need of degrees. Or Imam allows one person to recite half Kalim e Shahadah and ask others to recite full. Tenets are equal for all to practice.

With reference to parts of Ginans, curtain of separation can not be dropped without intercessor," through Noor of Ali it is possible for one to become nearer to He who is above all else."

Regarding Hadith of Imam Baqir narrated by Dhararah, it gives us sense that Imam Baqir talked to those 3 persons diplomatically in religious affairs. The last sentence is strange from mouth of Imam that,' this is good for me as well as good for you (Dhararah) and this will help us survive and prosper'. Was Imam scared he used the word 'survive' and in what sense prosperity? This Hadith is of poor category may be mixed up few words of his own by narrator.

arlenebatada · Post by **arlenebatada** » Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:54 am

zznoor wrote: Shia beliefs are based on interpretation of Ahadith supporting Ali and family and Ahl e Bait. there is no clear command in Quran or Hadith appointing Hz Ali as next leader after Prophet.

It would be incorrect to say that sister. I respect your set of beliefs and your interpretations; but just like there are indications in the Vedas, Torah and Injeel regarding coming of Prophet Muhammad (s.a.a.s), there are indications in the Qur'an and Hadiths regarding Imam 'Ali (a.s.) as Rasulullah (s.a.a.s)'s successor.

zznoor wrote: Please stop arguing about Islam or Ismailism, admittaly yo do not follow even Ismaili religion.
Peace brother

Isma'ilism is a subset of Islam. It cannot be termed as a different religion.

Post by **Admin** » Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:16 am

I would correct you. Ismailism is Islam. The others may be branches or sect of subsets as you say but Ismailism is neither a branch, nor a sect, nor a subset, it is Islam in its purest unadulterated form. You may disagree, it is a matter of belief.

arlenebatada · Post by **arlenebatada** » Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:05 am

Admin wrote:I would correct you. Ismailism is Islam. The others may be branches or sect of subsets as you say but Ismailism is neither a branch, nor a sect, nor a subset, it is Islam in its purest unadulterated form. You may disagree, it is a matter of belief.

Our Tariqah has no place for extremism. Do you know why Shaitaan, despite his immense love for Allah (swt) was driven out of the heaven? That was because of his feeling of chauvinism against Prophet Adam (a.s.).

Of Course, at a personal level my Tariqah holds the supreme position for me. But at a collective level, I as an Isma'ili should not exhibit an attitude of "better than thou". Rather, my duty as an Isma'ili is to explain why I regard my Tariqah to be the best. It should be done through a healthy discussion, just like Allah (swt) says in the Qur'an:

"Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good instruction, and reason with them in a way that is best. "
(Surah An-Nahl [16:125])

After all this, if the person is still not willing to accept, then it is an individual's choice after all.

"The diversity in interpretation is something that is inherent to human society. The attempt to normalise has a very little chance to succeed and it would be unethical to the essence of Islam. There is a very famous ayat in the Qur'an that says: 'To yourself, your faith. To myself, my faith.' "
-Imam Shah Karim al-Husayni (a.s.)
(Paroquias de Portugal Interview with Antonio Marujo and Faranaz Keshavjee (Lisbon, Portugal), 2008)

Post by **Admin** » Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:23 am

Yes everyone is entitled to his own interpretation of what is Islam. For me Imamat is the foundation of the faith. I would certainely not insult the tree by calling it a branch.

Lakum dinukum waliya dini.

arlenebatada · Post by **arlenebatada** » Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:08 pm

Admin wrote:Yes everyone is entitled to his own interpretation of what is Islam. For me Imamat is the foundation of the faith. I would certainely not insult the tree by calling it a branch.

Lakum dinukum waliya dini.

“O Messenger of Allah! It is a great Mercy of God that you are gentle and kind towards them; for, had you been harsh and hard-hearted, they would all have broken away from you”
(Surah al-'Imran [3:159])

It hurts when I see so much rigidity from some fellow Isma'ili brothers.

"I would like to see every Isma'ili and particularly every young Isma'ili become.. a real ambassador of the community.. Explain the role of the Imam.."
- Prince Sadruddin
(Vancouver, Canada, 22 Jan 1975)

Is this the way Isma'ili ambassadors are gonna look like?

Being an Isma'ili I was not expecting a forum run by fellow Isma'ilis to be abrasive.

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:43 pm

"The diversity in interpretation is something that is inherent to human society. The attempt to normalise has a very little chance to succeed and it would be unethical to the essence of Islam. There is a very famous ayat in the Qur'an that says: 'To yourself, your faith. To myself, my faith.' "
-Imam Shah Karim al-Husayni (a.s.)
(Paroquias de Portugal Interview with Antonio Marujo and Faranaz Keshavjee (Lisbon, Portugal), 2008)

This is what happens when you quote only one Aya of Sura Kafiroon.
Does Imam knows that this Sura and Aya is addressed to "Kafiroon" that is unbelievers of Islam?
This Sura is not addressed to believers of Islam
Wasalaam

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:55 pm

Yes everyone is entitled to his own interpretation of what is Islam. For me Imamat is the foundation of the faith. I would certainely not insult the tree by calling it a branch.

Lakum dinukum waliya dini.

"Lakum dinukum waliya dini"
See my comment in above post

arlenebatada · Post by **arlenebatada** » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:13 pm

zznoor wrote:
"The diversity in interpretation is something that is inherent to human society. The attempt to normalise has a very little chance to succeed and it would be unethical to the essence of Islam. There is a very famous ayat in the Qur'an that says: 'To yourself, your faith. To myself, my faith.' "
-Imam Shah Karim al-Husayni (a.s.)
(Paroquias de Portugal Interview with Antonio Marujo and Faranaz Keshavjee (Lisbon, Portugal), 2008)
This is what happens when you quote only one Aya of Sura Kafiroon.
Does Imam knows that this Sura and Aya is addressed to "Kafiroon" that is unbelievers of Islam?
This Sura is not addressed to believers of Islam
Wasalaam

Of course, he does. Let me quote the entire thing:

"The diversity in interpretation is something that is inherent to human society. The attempt to normatise has a very little chance to succeed and it would be unethical to the essence of Islam. There is a very famous ayat in the Qur'an that says: 'To yourself, your faith. To myself, my faith.' There is a great debate about whether this ayat refers to the intra-Muslim relationship or to the relationship between Muslims and non-Muslims. But the ayat is there!"

You can read the entire interview over here:
http://www.nanowisdoms.org/nwblog/8861/

Mu'awiya (Radhiallahu 'anhu) had fought Hazrat-E-'Ali (Radhiallahu 'anhu) at Siffin and killed 'Ammar bin Yasir (Radhiallahu 'anhu), who was Hazrat-E-'Ali (Radhiallahu 'anhu)'s right hand. Then after a short while when he was about to get defeated by Hazrat-E-'Ali (Radhiallahu 'anhu), he played a trick using the Qur'an. Hazrat-E-'Ali (Radhiallahu 'anhu) at that moment said "Keep fighting. I'm the speaking Qur'an".

Imams are not called the speaking Qur'an for nothing.

It is quoted in Sahih Muslim, Chapter of Virtues of Companions, Section of Virtues of ‘Ali, Arabic, v4, p1871, Tradition #32

that Mu'awiya (Radhiallahu 'anhu) asks Sa’d Ibn Abi Waqqas (Radhiallahu 'anhu), why don't you curse 'Ali (Radhiallahu 'anhu)?

All are Radhiallahu 'anhus?

Who's right???

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:26 pm

Imams are not called the speaking Qur'an for nothing.

Have you heard your Imam reciting one whole sura?
How about Sura Yasin?[/quote]

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:04 pm

zznoor wrote:
Have you heard your Imam reciting one whole sura?
How about Sura Yasin?

[/quote]It is well documented that when he was seven years old, he recited Idd Namaz in Nairobi. The namaz contains several ayats.

See the photo at:

http://ismaili.net/foto/4400160m.html

Post by **Admin** » Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:05 pm

zznoor wrote:
Imams are not called the speaking Qur'an for nothing.
Have you heard your Imam reciting one whole sura?
How about Sura Yasin?

It is a historical fact that Imam declared at Jang e Siffin that he was the speaking Quran and it is also a historical fact that some believed in his saying and some did not. This is always the case when faith is concerned. You may not believe that he is the speaking Quran but you can not deny that he said so.

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:06 pm

There is misunderstanding
He Ali was Hafiz Ul Quran, he knew when and where each revelation happens. He learned from Prophet meaning of each Ayat.

Remember he was Khalif for nearly 6 years and never said lie like there are 10 more chapters or something added or something is omitted in Wuran. It has been 100 hundred years and nobody has produced those missing chapters or corrected passages.

Yes he said he could recite Quran as recited by the Prophet, and he did not need to read from book.

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:08 pm

Imams are not called the speaking Qur'an for nothing.

All Imams are not Hafiz Ul Quran.

Post by **Admin** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:53 am

I don't think you understand the concept of Bolto Quran. It has nothing to do with Hafiz ul Quran else there would be many equals to the Imam e Zaman. Bolto Quran means whatever Imam says is considered as strong as the Quran and has to be followed as strongly.

arlenebatada · Post by **arlenebatada** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:45 am

zznoor wrote:
Imams are not called the speaking Qur'an for nothing.
All Imams are not Hafiz Ul Quran.

When I say my Imams are the speaking Qur'an, I don't just mean that they hafiz al-Qur'an, which of course they are. I mean more than that. They are the possessors of the knowledge of the Qur'an- the Qur'an which is protected and cannot be corrupted, just like Allah(swt) says:
"Most surely it is an honoured Qur'an, in a book that is protected, Which none shall touch but those who are purified"
(Surah Al-Waqi'ah [56:77-79])

Who are these purified people about whom Allah(swt) is talking about? The answer is in the Qur'an itself:
"..Allah intends only to remove from you the impurity, O Ahl al-Bayt, and to purify you with purification."
(Surah Al-Ahzab [33:33])

After revelation of this verse, Rasulullah (s.a.a.s) took a cloak under which he placed himself, Hazrat 'Ali, Hazrat Bibi Fatimah, Hazrat Hasan & Hazrat Hussain (peace be upon them all), and said "O Allah, this is my Ahl al-Bayt. Purify it with a worthy purification"

Still confused about who else is included in the Ahl al-Bayt? I'll give you a reference from your book only:

"He (Husain) said to Zaid: Who are the members of his Ahl al-Bayt? Aren't his wives the members of his family? Thereupon he said: His wives are the members of his family (but here) the Ahl al-Bayt are those for whom acceptance of Zakat is forbidden. And he said: Who are they? Thereupon he said: 'Ali and the offspring of 'Ali, 'Aqil and the offspring of 'Aqil and the offspring of Ja'far and the offspring of 'Abbas.."
(Sahih Muslim 2408 a; In-book reference: Book 44, Hadith 55; USC-MSA web (English) reference: Book 31, Hadith 5920)

So according to the Qur'an and your books of hadith, our Imams, who are offsprings of Imam 'Ali (a.s.) are from ahl al-bayt, which implies that they are free from sins, which further implies that they have access to the guarded Qur'an i.e. the original Qur'an.

I know an Isma'ili who is competent in Arabic. He had approached Hazar Imam (a.s.) for seeking Ism-E-Azam (about which I cannot say anything more). Wallah, I'm telling you, he told me that it was so perfect and immaculate Arabic, which he had found nowhere in the world, except like in the holy Qur'an. He said that the Arabic the Imam had used felt heavenly, just like when someone who knows Arabic feels when he reads the Qur'an.

zznoor wrote: Remember he was Khalid for nearly 6 years and never said lie like there are 10 more chapters or something added or something is omitted in Wuran. It has been 100 hundred years and nobody has produced those missing chapters or corrected passages.

My Imams say that Qur'an has missing chapters?
My Imams have only said that the order of verses has been changed by 'Uthman (I cannot place radiallahu 'anhu, but like me fellow Shi'a brothers I will not curse him either).
I'll quote you a farman from Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah (a.s.):
"..In the time of Khalifa 'Uthman, changes have been made (in the Qur'an). The verses succeeding verses have been made preceding and the preceding verses have been made succeding"
(Jungbar, 30/7/1899)

What's wrong in this? Both, Shi'a as well as Sunni scholars agree that the last verse to be revealed on Rasulullah (s.a.a.s) was "This day I have perfected your religion for you and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion." Shouldn't this verse be in the end of Qur'an? Where is it placed at present? In chapter 5 verse 3. Isn't it? So where did my Imam say anything incorrect?

In fact, it is your books of hadith which talk about missing chapters in the Qur'an. What about those "suckling" verses by Bibi 'Aisha? You want me to quote that hadith?
There was probably a trajedy in Saudi Arabia because of this. There was an affair between a boss and her secretory. People said, let the boss suckle the secretory so that she becomes marham to him. What's all this!

arlenebatada wrote: Mu'awiya (Radhiallahu 'anhu) had fought Hazrat-E-'Ali (Radhiallahu 'anhu) at Siffin and killed 'Ammar bin Yasir (Radhiallahu 'anhu), who was Hazrat-E-'Ali (Radhiallahu 'anhu)'s right hand. Then after a short while when he was about to get defeated by Hazrat-E-'Ali (Radhiallahu 'anhu), he played a trick using the Qur'an. Hazrat-E-'Ali (Radhiallahu 'anhu) at that moment said "Keep fighting. I'm the speaking Qur'an".

It is quoted in Sahih Muslim, Chapter of Virtues of Companions, Section of Virtues of ‘Ali, Arabic, v4, p1871, Tradition #32

that Mu'awiya (Radhiallahu 'anhu) asks Sa’d Ibn Abi Waqqas (Radhiallahu 'anhu), why don't you curse 'Ali (Radhiallahu 'anhu)?

All are Radhiallahu 'anhus?

Who's right???

I was expecting an answer.

This is a discussion. Please don't get offended.

ShamsB · Post by **ShamsB** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 3:30 am

arlenebatada wrote:
zznoor wrote:
Imams are not called the speaking Qur'an for nothing.
All Imams are not Hafiz Ul Quran.
When I say my Imams are the speaking Qur'an, I don't just mean that they hafiz al-Qur'an, which of course they are. I mean more than that. They are the possessors of the knowledge of the Qur'an- the Qur'an which is protected and cannot be corrupted, just like Allah(swt) says:
"Most surely it is an honoured Qur'an, in a book that is protected, Which none shall touch but those who are purified"
(Surah Al-Waqi'ah [56:77-79])

Who are these purified people about whom Allah(swt) is talking about? The answer is in the Qur'an itself:
"..Allah intends only to remove from you the impurity, O Ahl al-Bayt, and to purify you with purification."
(Surah Al-Ahzab [33:33])

After revelation of this verse, Rasulullah (s.a.a.s) took a cloak under which he placed himself, Hazrat 'Ali, Hazrat Bibi Fatimah, Hazrat Hasan & Hazrat Hussain (peace be upon them all), and said "O Allah, this is my Ahl al-Bayt. Purify it with a worthy purification"

Still confused about who else is included in the Ahl al-Bayt? I'll give you a reference from your book only:

"He (Husain) said to Zaid: Who are the members of his Ahl al-Bayt? Aren't his wives the members of his family? Thereupon he said: His wives are the members of his family (but here) the Ahl al-Bayt are those for whom acceptance of Zakat is forbidden. And he said: Who are they? Thereupon he said: 'Ali and the offspring of 'Ali, 'Aqil and the offspring of 'Aqil and the offspring of Ja'far and the offspring of 'Abbas.."
(Sahih Muslim 2408 a; In-book reference: Book 44, Hadith 55; USC-MSA web (English) reference: Book 31, Hadith 5920)

So according to the Qur'an and your books of hadith, our Imams, who are offsprings of Imam 'Ali (a.s.) are from ahl al-bayt, which implies that they are free from sins, which further implies that they have access to the guarded Qur'an i.e. the original Qur'an.

I know an Isma'ili who is competent in Arabic. He had approached Hazar Imam (a.s.) for seeking Ism-E-Azam (about which I cannot say anything more). Wallah, I'm telling you, he told me that it was so perfect and immaculate Arabic, which he had found nowhere in the world, except like in the holy Qur'an. He said that the Arabic the Imam had used felt heavenly, just like when someone who knows Arabic feels when he reads the Qur'an.

zznoor wrote: Remember he was Khalid for nearly 6 years and never said lie like there are 10 more chapters or something added or something is omitted in Wuran. It has been 100 hundred years and nobody has produced those missing chapters or corrected passages.
My Imams say that Qur'an has missing chapters?
My Imams have only said that the order of verses has been changed by 'Uthman (I cannot place radiallahu 'anhu, but like me fellow Shi'a brothers I will not curse him either).
I'll quote you a farman from Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah (a.s.):
"..In the time of Khalifa 'Uthman, changes have been made (in the Qur'an). The verses succeeding verses have been made preceding and the preceding verses have been made succeding"
(Jungbar, 30/7/1899)

What's wrong in this? Both, Shi'a as well as Sunni scholars agree that the last verse to be revealed on Rasulullah (s.a.a.s) was "This day I have perfected your religion for you and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion." Shouldn't this verse be in the end of Qur'an? Where is it placed at present? In chapter 5 verse 3. Isn't it? So where did my Imam say anything incorrect?

In fact, it is your books of hadith which talk about missing chapters in the Qur'an. What about those "suckling" verses by Bibi 'Aisha? You want me to quote that hadith?
There was probably a trajedy in Saudi Arabia because of this. There was an affair between a boss and her secretory. People said, let the boss suckle the secretory so that she becomes marham to him. What's all this!

arlenebatada wrote: Mu'awiya (Radhiallahu 'anhu) had fought Hazrat-E-'Ali (Radhiallahu 'anhu) at Siffin and killed 'Ammar bin Yasir (Radhiallahu 'anhu), who was Hazrat-E-'Ali (Radhiallahu 'anhu)'s right hand. Then after a short while when he was about to get defeated by Hazrat-E-'Ali (Radhiallahu 'anhu), he played a trick using the Qur'an. Hazrat-E-'Ali (Radhiallahu 'anhu) at that moment said "Keep fighting. I'm the speaking Qur'an".

It is quoted in Sahih Muslim, Chapter of Virtues of Companions, Section of Virtues of ‘Ali, Arabic, v4, p1871, Tradition #32

that Mu'awiya (Radhiallahu 'anhu) asks Sa’d Ibn Abi Waqqas (Radhiallahu 'anhu), why don't you curse 'Ali (Radhiallahu 'anhu)?

All are Radhiallahu 'anhus?

Who's right???

I was expecting an answer.

This is a discussion. Please don't get offended.

Well said.

The only problem is zznoor doesn't believe in anything the Imam says - even though the Imam is mentioned in the quran as "one in whom all knowledge and authority of everything is vested."

Whilst she claims that her interpretation of the Quran is the right one and the only one that should be followed - it is selective when it actually proves our point.

Shams

Post by **Admin** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 11:09 am

Mowlana Hazar Imam said you have to accept that people have different beliefs and also those who do not have any beliefs.

shivaathervedi · Post by **shivaathervedi** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 2:09 pm

Why MSMS discontinue ALI SAHI ALLAH in new Du'a. Please read the following Farman by mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah and comment.

JEM HAZRAT MURTAZA ALI YE EEK DEEVAS NAMAZ NI WAKHTEY FARMAWIU(N) KE;" KHUDAYA MANEY BAHASHT NI TAMA' NATHI, TEM HU(N) DOUZAKH THI DHARTO NATHI, JE DUKH DEWU(N) HOYA TE MANEY DEY, MARA THI SARAI KAR, HU(N) TARO ASHIQ CHHU(N)."
ONE DAY MOWLA MURTAZA ALI AT TIME OF NAMAZ SAID;" O GOD, I DO NOT DESIRE PARADISE NOR I AM AFRAID OF HELL, GIVE ME WHAT EVER PAIN (TROUBLE, DISTRESS) YOU WANT, BE GOOD TO ME, I AM YOUR LOVER (ASHIQ).
Farman by MSMS, mentioned in the Farman booklet "RUHANI ROSHINI", printed by Ismailia Association for Pakistan, second edition 1981, page # 48.

Need comments from stars of Heritage including Admin, Kmaherali, Shams B, 103, Nuseri, Arlenebatada and others.

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 2:46 pm

All are Radhiallahu 'anhus?

Who's right???

This thread is "Qul"

Why do you want me to express my opinion about Sahabas? What difference it will make if I put RA or curse some Sahabas? Thy are dead and either enjoying fruits of their good deeds or are being punished for their errors in qabar. And only Allah knows

Please search for "Ruling on hating the Sahaabah" and read it. I found it interesting.

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 2:58 pm

even though the Imam is mentioned in the quran as "one in whom all knowledge and authority of everything is vested."

Please quote Sura and Aya
I believe in 36:12 it translates into book

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 3:03 pm

The only problem is zznoor doesn't believe in anything the Imam says

My imam is Quran and authentic Sunna

nuseri · Post by **nuseri** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:12 pm

To zznoor:Ya Ali madad.
The whole of ummah is mostly disaster and looked down upon and laughing stock of the world.
By Believing Imam as person and manipulating the Imam e mubeen as a book.
What a historical farce.
See MHI speech made in UAE ,what devastation can unfold in Muslim belt of the word.
WRONG THE WORDS OF ALI+LAH= ALLAH and pay heavy,very heavy,utmost heavy price.
Better to be an atheist than a Shariati.
We believe in our living Imam as Bolts Quran ( not as memorized and parrot of old fabricated

arlenebatada · Post by **arlenebatada** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 3:25 am

shivaathervedi wrote:Why MSMS discontinue ALI SAHI ALLAH in new Du'a. Please read the following Farman by mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah and comment.

JEM HAZRAT MURTAZA ALI YE EEK DEEVAS NAMAZ NI WAKHTEY FARMAWIU(N) KE;" KHUDAYA MANEY BAHASHT NI TAMA' NATHI, TEM HU(N) DOUZAKH THI DHARTO NATHI, JE DUKH DEWU(N) HOYA TE MANEY DEY, MARA THI SARAI KAR, HU(N) TARO ASHIQ CHHU(N)."
ONE DAY MOWLA MURTAZA ALI AT TIME OF NAMAZ SAID;" O GOD, I DO NOT DESIRE PARADISE NOR I AM AFRAID OF HELL, GIVE ME WHAT EVER PAIN (TROUBLE, DISTRESS) YOU WANT, BE GOOD TO ME, I AM YOUR LOVER (ASHIQ).
Farman by MSMS, mentioned in the Farman booklet "RUHANI ROSHINI", printed by Ismailia Association for Pakistan, second edition 1981, page # 48.

Need comments from stars of Heritage including Admin, Kmaherali, Shams B, 103, Nuseri, Arlenebatada and others.

I don't talk on such topics, for it only creates confusion among people.

Imam al-Baqir (a.s.) has prohibited us to do so:
"Talk about the creation of Allah, but do not talk about Allah Himself, for that increases the owner of the talk nothing except perplexity."
(Usul al-Kafi, vol.1, p.92.)

But since you've requested for my comment by explicitly mentioning me, this is my reply:

Dhin ki baat kahi na jaave,
laakh karo to haath na aave

The mysteries of religion cannot be disclosed,
for even through a hundred thousand efforts, they cannot be attained (except by His will).

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 4:18 am

shivaathervedi wrote: ONE DAY MOWLA MURTAZA ALI AT TIME OF NAMAZ SAID;" O GOD, I DO NOT DESIRE PARADISE NOR I AM AFRAID OF HELL, GIVE ME WHAT EVER PAIN (TROUBLE, DISTRESS) YOU WANT, BE GOOD TO ME, I AM YOUR LOVER (ASHIQ).
Farman by MSMS, mentioned in the Farman booklet "RUHANI ROSHINI", printed by Ismailia Association for Pakistan, second edition 1981, page # 48.

Need comments from stars of Heritage including Admin, Kmaherali, Shams B, 103, Nuseri, Arlenebatada and others.

The Namaz is a Sharia practice. At a Sharia practice the audience is the public at large, so he is speaking according to the capacity of the Umma hence he is referring to Allah just as MHI says Bismillahir raham nir rahim when making speaches in public - a bit of common sense is required after all the discussions we have gone through.

There is a Ginanic verse which states:

ejee ek feekar munivar tamaaree chhe amne
maanas roope saaheb jaanno ho bhaai ji.......................4

O Respectful: O true believers! We have one concern about you and that is that you might confuse Haazar Imaam in His physical form as an ordinary man

nuseri · Post by **nuseri** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 5:13 am

YA Ali Madad.
This baby naag is an worse than ignorant reptile on earth.
Imam make statements at guider.if simply that there no heaven or eartth but trail tribulations on earth( if one can interpret it)
Same HZ ALI said I AM THE CREATOR.
for an Ismaili one true statement and other an ABSLOUSUTE TRUTH.
one referred by Imam SMS what to desire and expect after death by reffering to entity of repute for Ismaili.
Same Imam will say one day we will tell you stop praying Dua.one can see the hint on MHI asking for solutions to leaders in an audience. You need to be a human first to be an Ismaili,only a fool allows reptiles here.

nuseri · Post by **nuseri** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 5:22 am

Ya Ali Madad.
If baby naag believes this farman in his underground way.I wish members post farmans of Imam SMS saying relative truth and absolute truth that IMAMS are God and HE. is God.
he will escape like s coward,pls repost the kutba e bayan of ALI and see the response.
Admin I feel is multiplying his curse NY keeping the reptile on the site.

shivaathervedi · Post by **shivaathervedi** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 10:02 pm

arlenebatada wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:Why MSMS discontinue ALI SAHI ALLAH in new Du'a. Please read the following Farman by mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah and comment.

JEM HAZRAT MURTAZA ALI YE EEK DEEVAS NAMAZ NI WAKHTEY FARMAWIU(N) KE;" KHUDAYA MANEY BAHASHT NI TAMA' NATHI, TEM HU(N) DOUZAKH THI DHARTO NATHI, JE DUKH DEWU(N) HOYA TE MANEY DEY, MARA THI SARAI KAR, HU(N) TARO ASHIQ CHHU(N)."
ONE DAY MOWLA MURTAZA ALI AT TIME OF NAMAZ SAID;" O GOD, I DO NOT DESIRE PARADISE NOR I AM AFRAID OF HELL, GIVE ME WHAT EVER PAIN (TROUBLE, DISTRESS) YOU WANT, BE GOOD TO ME, I AM YOUR LOVER (ASHIQ).
Farman by MSMS, mentioned in the Farman booklet "RUHANI ROSHINI", printed by Ismailia Association for Pakistan, second edition 1981, page # 48.

Need comments from stars of Heritage including Admin, Kmaherali, Shams B, 103, Nuseri, Arlenebatada and others.
I don't talk on such topics, for it only creates confusion among people.

Imam al-Baqir (a.s.) has prohibited us to do so:
"Talk about the creation of Allah, but do not talk about Allah Himself, for that increases the owner of the talk nothing except perplexity."
(Usul al-Kafi, vol.1, p.92.)

But since you've requested for my comment by explicitly mentioning me, this is my reply:

Dhin ki baat kahi na jaave,
laakh karo to haath na aave

The mysteries of religion cannot be disclosed,
for even through a hundred thousand efforts, they cannot be attained (except by His will).

I can not force you to to discuss any topic if you don't want. Looks like you want to play safe on topics of your choice. Rumi said;

NUKTAHA CHU(N) TAIG E POLLAD AST TEZ
GAR NA DAARI TU SUPPER WAAPAS GUREZ

Meaning; Words are as penetrating as sharp as steel swords, if you do not have protection of shield better run away.

Why I asked you question beside others, because in couple of your posts you added s.a.a.s after name of Prophet Muhammad and a.s or RA after name of Mowla Ali and a.s after Hazar Imam. When Noor e Muhammadi and Noor e Ali are same then s.a.a.s should come after both pious names.
S.A.A.S abbreviation of salallahu alaihi wasalam.
A.S abbreviation of alahis salam
R.A abbreviation of radhi allahu ta'lla.
You misunderstood my question, it is not particularly about Allah. I did not ask definition of Allah. If you read Farman I quoted of MSMS, it says; Ali beseech Allah in namaz, therefore my question is, if Mowla Ali is considered Allah then to whom was he beseeching? This is an important farman because some Ismailis from subcontinent consider Imam as God.
A personal question if you want to reply. Are you an ex alumnus of IIS?

shivaathervedi · Post by **shivaathervedi** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 10:17 pm

nuseri wrote:YA Ali Madad.
This baby naag is an worse than ignorant reptile on earth.
Imam make statements at guider.if simply that there no heaven or eartth but trail tribulations on earth( if one can interpret it)
Same HZ ALI said I AM THE CREATOR.
for an Ismaili one true statement and other an ABSLOUSUTE TRUTH.
one referred by Imam SMS what to desire and expect after death by reffering to entity of repute for Ismaili.
Same Imam will say one day we will tell you stop praying Dua.one can see the hint on MHI asking for solutions to leaders in an audience. You need to be a human first to be an Ismaili,only a fool allows reptiles here.

Frozen brain creature let me quote a Farman of Mowla Murtaza Ali. He said," Two categories of persons will face ruin on account of me, one who loves me with EXAGGERATION and other who hates me intensely."
Keep cursing Admin I don't mind.

nuseri · Post by **nuseri** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 10:23 pm

Ya Ali Madad.
This baby naag has gone Looney bin.Moula Ali as a guide/pir showed the ignorants then what to seek from God after prayer.
After life of Hz Ali was his phase of Hussien,it indded did showed the word the trial & tribulations of the world and humanity.
Hz Ali first farman was he is God nothing less.he prayed to show the world to himself.can you reply to that farman.
Imam SMS has said about his status in over dozen farman.while also saying ameye Allah pase dua kareye chee.
When imam uses name of Allah or say inshallah or seen praying there is no entity above him as the word Allah is just a name and an entity.pls refer to imam jaffer sadiq farman on Allah.there us none above noir of ALI ,MHI said in London farman.this website is for Ismaili humans and not reptiles.Admin is ABSOLUTELY BLINKERED.

QUL