Why do many non-Ismaili's consider Ismaili's not Muslims? We believe in the Quran just like them except that we have a living Imam to guide us. Some of them also have Imam's or someone that is a leader who giudes the Muslims.
An example of one of the people that I am talking about it here:
http://www.xanga.com/home.aspx?user=fckakhan
*For those of you who don't know what a Xanga is, it is an online diary type thing. Anyone can read it and leave a comment if they desire.
This girl is really opposed to Ismailism and she believes that we are not "true" Muslims partly because we don't wear a hijab. She has also made numerous comments that Ismaili's are kaffirs! She also has many other misunderstandings about Ismailism. I, along with many other people, have tried explaining to her that what she believes is wrong, but she just doesn't understand. Can someone PLEASE try and explain to this girl that she is wrong with sufficient information? I have been reading the posts on these forums for a really long time now and many of the people who reply a lot know what they are talking about. Please help her! Thank you so much.
Noreen
Ismaili's not considered Muslims?
Ismaili's not considered Muslims?
Last edited by N.A. on Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Assalam aleikum wa ya Ali madad!
Your intentions are good, but unfortunately no one can succeed. There are certain types of Muslims who believe what they know to be fact, regardless of what anyone else may say and regardless of whether it is actually fact or not. Such people cannot be reasoned with. Unfortunately, most of Ismailism's Muslim enemies fall in this category.
These are people who have a very narrow view of Islam: Islam is such-and-such, and that's it; everything else is wrong and non-Muslim. However, Mowla Hazir Imam (AS) has emphasized repeatedly that there is a great diversity and pluralism within Islam. Enemies of Ismailism ignore this or try to make it not so: they want to unite all Muslims under one strict interpretation.
Bottom line: choose your battles. This is not a prudent battle as winning or making any headway whatsoever is impossible. Sad, but true. We should just pray that the enemies of Ismailism will be touched by the Nur and love of the Imam.
Mowla hafiz,
ON
Your intentions are good, but unfortunately no one can succeed. There are certain types of Muslims who believe what they know to be fact, regardless of what anyone else may say and regardless of whether it is actually fact or not. Such people cannot be reasoned with. Unfortunately, most of Ismailism's Muslim enemies fall in this category.
These are people who have a very narrow view of Islam: Islam is such-and-such, and that's it; everything else is wrong and non-Muslim. However, Mowla Hazir Imam (AS) has emphasized repeatedly that there is a great diversity and pluralism within Islam. Enemies of Ismailism ignore this or try to make it not so: they want to unite all Muslims under one strict interpretation.
Bottom line: choose your battles. This is not a prudent battle as winning or making any headway whatsoever is impossible. Sad, but true. We should just pray that the enemies of Ismailism will be touched by the Nur and love of the Imam.
Mowla hafiz,
ON
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star_munir
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Ya Ali Madad to all,
If she thinks that by not wearing hijab ismailis becomes kafir than she is not following Islam but Arabism. You can tell her that you are not following Islam but only Arabism. Infact you do not have truly understood the Islam because if your interpretation of Islam is taken true than those who do not hide their face in veils like theifs are kafir so only few women will be muslim as mostly many many non ismaili women do not wear hijab.
Also according to a hadith if a muslim will call kafir to any true muslim than he or she will himself or herself become kafir.
God has not given her any authority to judge who is momin and who is Kafir.
If she thinks that by not wearing hijab ismailis becomes kafir than she is not following Islam but Arabism. You can tell her that you are not following Islam but only Arabism. Infact you do not have truly understood the Islam because if your interpretation of Islam is taken true than those who do not hide their face in veils like theifs are kafir so only few women will be muslim as mostly many many non ismaili women do not wear hijab.
Also according to a hadith if a muslim will call kafir to any true muslim than he or she will himself or herself become kafir.
God has not given her any authority to judge who is momin and who is Kafir.
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star_munir
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God direct towards His Noor to whom He pleases. In Ginan Buj Niranjan Pir Sadardin says,"The mullahs and preachers try and find God through shariat. They some times belittle the marifati people and even call a momin Kafir. They may even take him to task and make his existence full of trials and tribulations. It is really these people who should be condemned for they are away from the truth. They have forgotten the truth and thus remains forgotten...Ask yourself where you are but do not judge others like the mullahs would."
But what excuse the ismailis has for not wearing the hijab; prefer western lifestyle. while we have shariat to follow as adaab and marifat to reach haqiqat - nurullah. Or could that be actual excuse, "While you in Rome do like what the Roman do" ?
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No heart feelings yeah! Just been thoughtful.
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No heart feelings yeah! Just been thoughtful.
Ismailis as in India/Pakistan do not wear hijab because the culture over there doesn't force them to wear it. The same goes for Western countries. Do you know what Ismailis wear in many other parts of of the world?uerlia wrote:But what excuse the ismailis has for not wearing the hijab; prefer western lifestyle. while we have shariat to follow as adaab and marifat to reach haqiqat - nurullah. Or could that be actual excuse, "While you in Rome do like what the Roman do" ?
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No heart feelings yeah! Just been thoughtful.
Can you tell me where in Qur'an Allah asks Muslims to wear Hijab?
If I was born and grew up in Rome then I'm not just "there" in Rome. Are you telling me that I can't be a Muslim if I was born and raised in Rome? And what reasons I have to adopt the Arab culture if I was born and raised in Rome. BTW, the Hijab was not first found in Arab culture and some of the Muslims were not the first one to adopt it for themselves.
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star_munir
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If there is not social evil of Hijab in Ismailism thank God for that that we have freedom and are not forced to wear veil like a thief hide his/her face.
Imam said that Ismailis not to wear hijab so all Ismailis are supposed not to wear hijab even if they belong to country like Arabia. To wear by hijab if tortured by Taliban in Afghanistan is another matter.
since Imam Hassan Ali Shah it is forbidden and if any man claims that its very nice then my request is if you are man/boy just wear hijab or burkha for 7 days in some hot country like South India, Pak or Africa and work while wearing hijab and see how you feels. You will feel like living in prison.
And if you are woman and raised this question then even I am more surprised that if status of women is equal to men in Ismailism why you want things by which staus of women become lower then men.
Why so much impressed from views of Shariati orthodox mullahs?
Imam said that Ismailis not to wear hijab so all Ismailis are supposed not to wear hijab even if they belong to country like Arabia. To wear by hijab if tortured by Taliban in Afghanistan is another matter.
since Imam Hassan Ali Shah it is forbidden and if any man claims that its very nice then my request is if you are man/boy just wear hijab or burkha for 7 days in some hot country like South India, Pak or Africa and work while wearing hijab and see how you feels. You will feel like living in prison.
And if you are woman and raised this question then even I am more surprised that if status of women is equal to men in Ismailism why you want things by which staus of women become lower then men.
Why so much impressed from views of Shariati orthodox mullahs?
Last edited by star_munir on Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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faisall667
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Wow!!! This girl is something. I just scanned over her chat and,...wow...
All I have to say is that I agree with the other posts, and I would like to say that if she condemns other religions then she is not a Muslim. If you would like, you can explain it to her simply that the religion Islam, is the religion of peace, and since she is creating an uproar rather than peace, she cannot be a muslim. I personally feel she is a terrorist who is trying to break the little tolerance we have from other muslim sects.
Faisal
All I have to say is that I agree with the other posts, and I would like to say that if she condemns other religions then she is not a Muslim. If you would like, you can explain it to her simply that the religion Islam, is the religion of peace, and since she is creating an uproar rather than peace, she cannot be a muslim. I personally feel she is a terrorist who is trying to break the little tolerance we have from other muslim sects.
Faisal
faisall667 wrote:Wow!!! This girl is something. I just scanned over her chat and,...wow...
All I have to say is that I agree with the other posts, and I would like to say that if she condemns other religions then she is not a Muslim. If you would like, you can explain it to her simply that the religion Islam, is the religion of peace, and since she is creating an uproar rather than peace, she cannot be a muslim. I personally feel she is a terrorist who is trying to break the little tolerance we have from other muslim sects.
Faisal
Why do we even care what she thinks....
to each their own..
let us perfect the practise of our own faith and focus on that..then defend it against ignorance and intolerance...
if she says we aren't muslims than we aren't..why argue with her..she's not going to understand..she's brainwashed..nothing left to try and convince her to see the arguement from a different light..
i have no time for those that have already made judgements without investigations..
if you are going to hold me guilty till proven innocent..than i am guilty now..go ahead and hang me...
Shams
Imam said Ismailis shouldn't wear Hijab?? I'm confused, who said that and where? Are you talking about Burqa or are you talking about Hijab, there is a difference. And why would Imam explicitly announce that we shouldn't wear Hijab/Burqa?? There must be a context which I'm missing here. What would be wrong if some Ismaili women somwhere decides to wear Burqa/hijab?star_munir wrote:I just get angry and surprised when I read stupid comments like why Ismailis not wear hijab. If there is not social evil of Hijab in Ismailism thank God for that that we have freedom and are not forced to wear veil like a thief hide our face.
Imam said that Ismailis not wear hijab so all Ismailis are supposed not to wear hijab even if they belong to country like Arabia. To wear by hijab if tortured by Taliban in Afghanistan is another matter.
For the lovers of Hijab there is no place in Ismailism since Imam Hassan Ali Shah it is forbidden and if any man claims that its very nice then my request is if you are man/boy just wear hijab or burkha for 7 days in some hot country like South India, Pak or Africa and work while wearing hijab and see how you feels. You will feel like living in prison.
And if you are woman and raised this question then even I am more surprised that if status of women is equal to men in Ismailism why you want things by which staus of women become lower then men.
Why so much impressed from views of Shariati orthodox mullahs?
We as Ismailis are unique as we have present living Imam who guides us with time.<BR>We also tend to adapt to the countries that we live in and blend and follow the laws and <BR>at the same time practise our faith.<BR><BR>The wearing of hijabs and burqah say in Afghanistan for example, was not brought about by Islam. It was a tradition long before the coming of Islam and it is a cultural phenomena rather <BR>than religious.<BR><BR><BR>Yes it is true most Ismalis do not wear Burqah but that does not mean we are not Muslims.<BR>Anyone that recites a Shahada is a Muslim.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>
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star_munir
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Purdah be it in form of hijab or burkha is not appropriate and not allowed in Ismailism. It is because of Farman of Imam. It is also because in our religion status of women is equal to that of men.
For more regarding Imam's Farman in this matter kindly refer to : topic burkha in section of current issues and Hijab a poem in inspiration section.
For more regarding Imam's Farman in this matter kindly refer to : topic burkha in section of current issues and Hijab a poem in inspiration section.
Brother star_munir, I respect you dearly but your use of the word "not allowed" is highly inappropriate. This term breaches the individual rights of a person which is totally against the Islam and Ismailism. Without even looking at the Farman (if there is one) I can see that you're missing the context.star_munir wrote:Purdah be it in form of hijab or burkha is not appropriate and not allowed in Ismailism. It is because of Farman of Imam. It is also because in our religion status of women is equal to that of men.
For more regarding Imam's Farman in this matter kindly refer to : topic burkha in section of current issues and Hijab a poem in inspiration section.
I am not debating if Burqa/Naqab/Hijab is appropriate or not, neither I am debating its validity in Islam or Ismailism, I very well understand its cultural implication but you are making it a restriction which it is not. Talibans were wrong to force it, you are wrong to remove it. Leave it as it is: an individual choice.
I don't disagree with your points. I see purdah/burqa/hijab--whatever you call it--as an individual choice of expression. If someone's wearing it just because she thinks its written in Qur'an then its their personal interpretation of Qur'an. If someone's wearing it because their government forces them to wear it then government is wrong. But if you're not wearing it because the Imam says that you shouldn't then I'm asking for context and time-frame here. Does Mowlana Hazar Imam explicitly said that no Ismaili women should wear Hijab/Purdah/Naqab?? I would like to see.finni wrote:We as Ismailis are unique as we have present living Imam who guides us with time.<BR>We also tend to adapt to the countries that we live in and blend and follow the laws and <BR>at the same time practise our faith.<BR><BR>The wearing of hijabs and burqah say in Afghanistan for example, was not brought about by Islam. It was a tradition long before the coming of Islam and it is a cultural phenomena rather <BR>than religious.<BR><BR><BR>Yes it is true most Ismalis do not wear Burqah but that does not mean we are not Muslims.<BR>Anyone that recites a Shahada is a Muslim.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>
Just like brother star_munir, I also don't care what Mullah says. But I would be troubled if our Hazar Imam would say that no Ismaili should wear hijab in current day and age because it is against Ismailism (minus the people who live under oppressive regimes). Again, as I said, if there is such Farman then there has to be a context. My only defense here is individual liberty and freedom in cultural context.
little while ago i walked into a sunni friends house, although they were expecting me but as soon as i walked in his little sister left the room immediately. i knew they practice Parda, but this i just couldnt take. i didnt say any thing but avoided them since then. Reason is that i took it as an insult to my self. What makes them think that i wouldnt respect their family and stay within my moral and ethical boundry. Problem is that according to Sunni version of Islam all man are such shameless creature that women should hide themselves.
Burqa to me is not only a torture on women but also an Insult of Muslim man. Whats so wrong with these man that they dont have any self controle. only way they can controle themselves is if they Hide the women completely.
Sunni version of Islam has become a Joke in modern world. for example Even after wearing burqa women are not considerd fit to lead a jamat during Namaz. Reason being Muslim man cant focus on Prayers if women was leading. If Burqa cant stop these man from fantacising about women than Gon knows what will. Either their is something wrong with their believes or these man are mentally sick.
Burqa to me is not only a torture on women but also an Insult of Muslim man. Whats so wrong with these man that they dont have any self controle. only way they can controle themselves is if they Hide the women completely.
Sunni version of Islam has become a Joke in modern world. for example Even after wearing burqa women are not considerd fit to lead a jamat during Namaz. Reason being Muslim man cant focus on Prayers if women was leading. If Burqa cant stop these man from fantacising about women than Gon knows what will. Either their is something wrong with their believes or these man are mentally sick.
Absolutely! It is a disgrace to Islam. It shows that with all the rituals, Islam is not able to elevate its adherants. The real Burqa should be a mental one - a person should be able to see a 'Burqa" around a naked woman. That is the meaning of inner progress and maturity. Instead it seems that some see naked women even when they are under 'Burqa"!.azamour wrote: Burqa to me is not only a torture on women but also an Insult of Muslim man. Whats so wrong with these man that they dont have any self controle. only way they can controle themselves is if they Hide the women completely.
Sunni version of Islam has become a Joke in modern world. for example Even after wearing burqa women are not considerd fit to lead a jamat during Namaz. Reason being Muslim man cant focus on Prayers if women was leading. If Burqa cant stop these man from fantacising about women than Gon knows what will. Either their is something wrong with their believes or these man are mentally sick.
What is even worse is the effect this has own the perception of Muslim men by Muslim women. What would they think of them. Just beasts.
hijab
"Does Mowlana Hazar Imam explicitly said that no Ismaili women should wear Hijab/Purdah/Naqab?? I would like to see. "
Imam SMS made a farman about 1897 banning Purdah. Even his mother, Lady Ali Shah, had to take it off - for good.
Maybe someone else can find the farman, and also the quote where Imam SMS told an Ismaili girl who came to deedar in a hijab, "Why do you shame your parents by wearing this?"
Imam SMS made a farman about 1897 banning Purdah. Even his mother, Lady Ali Shah, had to take it off - for good.
Maybe someone else can find the farman, and also the quote where Imam SMS told an Ismaili girl who came to deedar in a hijab, "Why do you shame your parents by wearing this?"
In a same sense, the real Burqa/Hijab could very well be a fashion statement and a person should be able to see the beauty around (the shuttle burqa as we call them may not come under the fashion statement but hey who knows the future, it very well could one day). You see my point? I'm not defending Burqa just because Islam instructs for it (which we know it does not), I'm defending it as a choice of freedom and liberty. I doubt if Farman made by SMS hundred years ago applies in current day and time. If there is no Farman by MHI to negate the earlier one then his other Farmans must be out there encapsulating the spirit of liberty and freedom. Giving women enough rights so she can choose what is best for her is very well within the context of Islam.kmaherali wrote:The real Burqa should be a mental one - a person should be able to see a 'Burqa" around a naked woman. That is the meaning of inner progress and maturity. Instead it seems that some see naked women even when they are under 'Burqa"!.
MSMS remade the Farman in the 50's and sent a picture of Mata Salamat who was the Begum then in a skirt and blouse and instructed that all his spiritual daughters be dressed thus.curious2 wrote:In a same sense, the real Burqa/Hijab could very well be a fashion statement and a person should be able to see the beauty around (the shuttle burqa as we call them may not come under the fashion statement but hey who knows the future, it very well could one day). You see my point? I'm not defending Burqa just because Islam instructs for it (which we know it does not), I'm defending it as a choice of freedom and liberty. I doubt if Farman made by SMS hundred years ago applies in current day and time. If there is no Farman by MHI to negate the earlier one then his other Farmans must be out there encapsulating the spirit of liberty and freedom. Giving women enough rights so she can choose what is best for her is very well within the context of Islam.kmaherali wrote:The real Burqa should be a mental one - a person should be able to see a 'Burqa" around a naked woman. That is the meaning of inner progress and maturity. Instead it seems that some see naked women even when they are under 'Burqa"!.
Burqa/Hijab is not permitted in Ismailism..as per the Farmans of MSMS.
Shams
I remember in one of the interviews conducted after the talibans were ousted from power. MHI was asked that women still are covered under the Burqa/Hijab in Afghanistan, to which he replied so long as they do it out of choice, it is OK. It should not be imposed.curious2 wrote:I'm not defending Burqa just because Islam instructs for it (which we know it does not), I'm defending it as a choice of freedom and liberty. I doubt if Farman made by SMS hundred years ago applies in current day and time. If there is no Farman by MHI to negate the earlier one then his other Farmans must be out there encapsulating the spirit of liberty and freedom. Giving women enough rights so she can choose what is best for her is very well within the context of Islam.
And as I have mentioned before, what Imam says in public is different from what he says to his murids. Hence, for Ismailis, the Farman of Imam Sultan Muhammed Shah would still hold. In that sense Ismailis do not have a choice. They should NOT wear the Burqa.
Our Imam gave us permission to take the burqa off for the sake of keeping Ismailis up with the time and for many other reasons . but now we face a different challenge.
We are seeing younger generations in the name of batini religion are allowed to wear pretty much whatever they want to jamat khana. I think on times we Ismaili disrespect our faith and our Jamat khana more than any other religion in the world. I see young girls and boys coming to JK with tight jeans. Women with hair all open. It used to be our tradition to cover our head while in Jamat khana. Atleast women used to have chadar or dupatta to cover thair hair while praying.
Person that leads the jamat with dua used to wear a hat back in Pakistan and women they all covered their head it they were leading. i dont mean to sound all shariyati, but it is a way to respect your own religion. Like jews still wear Yamaka all times just cause its their way of saying God is above all of us. You look at christians going to church, their young girls or boys dont go in with tight jeans as if they just came out of movie theatre.
They go in dressed very modest and clean.
i understand sometimes we are coming from work and its better to go to Jamat khana then to not go just cause you are not dressed properly. But i think their got to be a line we sould draw as what shouldnt be worn.
Parents should teach their young girls and boys to either to go in with respect and honour or not go in period. And again my purpose is that if we disrespect our own faith they who will respect it and if we take it all casually then we will loose the traditions and values we stand for.
We are seeing younger generations in the name of batini religion are allowed to wear pretty much whatever they want to jamat khana. I think on times we Ismaili disrespect our faith and our Jamat khana more than any other religion in the world. I see young girls and boys coming to JK with tight jeans. Women with hair all open. It used to be our tradition to cover our head while in Jamat khana. Atleast women used to have chadar or dupatta to cover thair hair while praying.
Person that leads the jamat with dua used to wear a hat back in Pakistan and women they all covered their head it they were leading. i dont mean to sound all shariyati, but it is a way to respect your own religion. Like jews still wear Yamaka all times just cause its their way of saying God is above all of us. You look at christians going to church, their young girls or boys dont go in with tight jeans as if they just came out of movie theatre.
They go in dressed very modest and clean.
i understand sometimes we are coming from work and its better to go to Jamat khana then to not go just cause you are not dressed properly. But i think their got to be a line we sould draw as what shouldnt be worn.
Parents should teach their young girls and boys to either to go in with respect and honour or not go in period. And again my purpose is that if we disrespect our own faith they who will respect it and if we take it all casually then we will loose the traditions and values we stand for.
Mowlana Hazar Imam had sent the following holy Farman to the jamats of Pakistan:
"My dear spiritual children, from year to year customs and traditions in human clothing are changing and it has become necessary to draw your attention to the fact that when you go to jamatkhana you should do so in proper and suitable attire.
I do not want those spiritual children who have done well in a worldly manner to make demonstration of their success nor do I wish clothes to be worn which are not compatible with the practice of your faith in an atmosphere of calm and serenity.
"The aforementioned matters are universal and binding principles of Islam and must be followed by all Muslims, for indeed these principles were established by Prophet himself."
There has been discussion on clothing in this forum under:
Rites and Ceremonies --> Blak clothes???
"My dear spiritual children, from year to year customs and traditions in human clothing are changing and it has become necessary to draw your attention to the fact that when you go to jamatkhana you should do so in proper and suitable attire.
I do not want those spiritual children who have done well in a worldly manner to make demonstration of their success nor do I wish clothes to be worn which are not compatible with the practice of your faith in an atmosphere of calm and serenity.
"The aforementioned matters are universal and binding principles of Islam and must be followed by all Muslims, for indeed these principles were established by Prophet himself."
There has been discussion on clothing in this forum under:
Rites and Ceremonies --> Blak clothes???
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star_munir
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As curious wrote :"But if you're not wearing it because the Imam says that you shouldn't then I'm asking for context and time-frame here. Does Mowlana Hazar Imam explicitly said that no Ismaili women should wear Hijab/Purdah/Naqab?? I would like to see."
References :
1 Kalam-e-Imam-e-Mubin [Book of Farmans, 3 or more Farmans about this]
2 Memoirs of Aga Khan [ In Islam religion of my ancestors]
3 Noorum Mubin [It is in this history book that Imam Sultan Mohammad Shah told in His speech in Aligarh disadvantages of burkha, speech is in Noorum Mubin]
4 I think also in book Message to the the world of Islam [speeches of Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah] but I am not sure for this.
In One of His interviews Hazir Imam said that "My Grandfather made it quite clear to the ismaili community that women were not to wear the veil and they no longer do"
Also in Ismailism Women are told not to wear Zahiri burkha but to wear "sharam ka burkha" [Sharam means lajja or shyness] in eyes of heart. That means there must not be any thing bad in heart. The most important thing is heart and inner thoughts which must be pure.
References :
1 Kalam-e-Imam-e-Mubin [Book of Farmans, 3 or more Farmans about this]
2 Memoirs of Aga Khan [ In Islam religion of my ancestors]
3 Noorum Mubin [It is in this history book that Imam Sultan Mohammad Shah told in His speech in Aligarh disadvantages of burkha, speech is in Noorum Mubin]
4 I think also in book Message to the the world of Islam [speeches of Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah] but I am not sure for this.
In One of His interviews Hazir Imam said that "My Grandfather made it quite clear to the ismaili community that women were not to wear the veil and they no longer do"
Also in Ismailism Women are told not to wear Zahiri burkha but to wear "sharam ka burkha" [Sharam means lajja or shyness] in eyes of heart. That means there must not be any thing bad in heart. The most important thing is heart and inner thoughts which must be pure.
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star_munir
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Also regarding "My only defense here is individual liberty and freedom in cultural context"
I think hijab is sign of slavery. How can it be called as freedom.
Re:azamour Problem is that according to Sunni version of Islam all man are such shameless creature that women should hide themselves. Burqa to me is not only a torture on women but also an Insult of Muslim man. Whats so wrong with these man that they dont have any self controle. only way they can controle themselves is if they Hide the women completely.
.
The problem is not only with Sunnis but with Shias too. Not all Sunnis are orthodox and narrowminded many Non Ismaili women do not wear burkha in modern times but still if some Ismaili ask questions that if Non Ismaili face Kaaba while reciting prayers why Ismaili not do or non Ismailis wear hijab why Ismailis not do? Then nextly I guess some one may ask Why Ismailis not to sucide terror attacks although some muslims do it...?
I agree with you that it is insult of man. But it is also insult of women like it is believed that most of the living beings in hell would be women and a boy and girl can not shake hands or see each other [except close relatives etc]
But I dont agree with you on following point:" We are seeing younger generations in the name of batini religion are allowed to wear pretty much whatever they want to jamat khana. I think on times we Ismaili disrespect our faith and our Jamat khana more than any other religion in the world. I see young girls and boys coming to JK with tight jeans. Women with hair all open. It used to be our tradition to cover our head while in Jamat khana. Atleast women used to have chadar or dupatta to cover thair hair while praying."
Whats wrong if girl or boy comes in jeans or pant shirt. You may not feel it modest but for those who live in west it is their dressand I dont think it is bad to wear western dresses
I think hijab is sign of slavery. How can it be called as freedom.
Re:azamour Problem is that according to Sunni version of Islam all man are such shameless creature that women should hide themselves. Burqa to me is not only a torture on women but also an Insult of Muslim man. Whats so wrong with these man that they dont have any self controle. only way they can controle themselves is if they Hide the women completely.
.
The problem is not only with Sunnis but with Shias too. Not all Sunnis are orthodox and narrowminded many Non Ismaili women do not wear burkha in modern times but still if some Ismaili ask questions that if Non Ismaili face Kaaba while reciting prayers why Ismaili not do or non Ismailis wear hijab why Ismailis not do? Then nextly I guess some one may ask Why Ismailis not to sucide terror attacks although some muslims do it...?
I agree with you that it is insult of man. But it is also insult of women like it is believed that most of the living beings in hell would be women and a boy and girl can not shake hands or see each other [except close relatives etc]
But I dont agree with you on following point:" We are seeing younger generations in the name of batini religion are allowed to wear pretty much whatever they want to jamat khana. I think on times we Ismaili disrespect our faith and our Jamat khana more than any other religion in the world. I see young girls and boys coming to JK with tight jeans. Women with hair all open. It used to be our tradition to cover our head while in Jamat khana. Atleast women used to have chadar or dupatta to cover thair hair while praying."
Whats wrong if girl or boy comes in jeans or pant shirt. You may not feel it modest but for those who live in west it is their dressand I dont think it is bad to wear western dresses
<A href="http://www.xanga.com/home.aspx?user=fckakhan" target=_blank><FONT color=#4c5ea8>http://www.xanga.com/home.aspx?user=fckakhan</FONT></A> <BR><BR><BR>How dare she tak like that about Imam! She is ignorant. She is the true kafir. And she said that Imam Ali is dead?!!? He is living in the world , because Nur is always the same. Also, she goes by what the Prophet said, well, isnt he "dead" too? I have pity for ppl like that. But when they talk about Imam in vain, I cannot stand it. Also, if that was her pic o­n the site, then were is her veil? I did not see o­ne. PPL like that are.......
star_munir you wrote:
"Whats wrong if girl or boy comes in jeans or pant shirt. You may not feel it modest but for those who live in west it is their dressand I dont think it is bad to wear western dresses"
I am not surprised by your Question. Most of us Islamili are pretty open minded people and they dont see any thing wrong with it. Unless they look at it with the context in mind that im trying to narrate.
Let me ask you this, Would you go to one of your Ismaili friends wedding wearing jeans and T shirts?. and tell him that since we believe in Batini way of Islam and we live in west i dress this way.
We shouldnt wear jeans in jamat khana for same reason that western people dont wear it in their place of worship. Cause cowboys started it, as they used to work in fields with cows and horses. Jeans are not washed as often as trousers. They have a dirty, carefree, rough and tought image associated with them. Not something i would advice for jamat kahna. And also you can wear any thing you like outside jamat khana but inside we should try to create an enviornment of soberness, and cleanliness. Ill quote the farman Mr K maher ali Quoted above
"I do not want those spiritual children who have done well in a worldly manner to make demonstration of their success nor do I wish clothes to be worn which are not compatible with the practice of your faith in an atmosphere of calm and serenity.
"The aforementioned matters are universal and binding principles of Islam and must be followed by all Muslims, for indeed these principles were established by Prophet himself."
"Whats wrong if girl or boy comes in jeans or pant shirt. You may not feel it modest but for those who live in west it is their dressand I dont think it is bad to wear western dresses"
I am not surprised by your Question. Most of us Islamili are pretty open minded people and they dont see any thing wrong with it. Unless they look at it with the context in mind that im trying to narrate.
Let me ask you this, Would you go to one of your Ismaili friends wedding wearing jeans and T shirts?. and tell him that since we believe in Batini way of Islam and we live in west i dress this way.
We shouldnt wear jeans in jamat khana for same reason that western people dont wear it in their place of worship. Cause cowboys started it, as they used to work in fields with cows and horses. Jeans are not washed as often as trousers. They have a dirty, carefree, rough and tought image associated with them. Not something i would advice for jamat kahna. And also you can wear any thing you like outside jamat khana but inside we should try to create an enviornment of soberness, and cleanliness. Ill quote the farman Mr K maher ali Quoted above
"I do not want those spiritual children who have done well in a worldly manner to make demonstration of their success nor do I wish clothes to be worn which are not compatible with the practice of your faith in an atmosphere of calm and serenity.
"The aforementioned matters are universal and binding principles of Islam and must be followed by all Muslims, for indeed these principles were established by Prophet himself."
About [link DELETED BY ADMIN]
What kind of "Muslim Princess" uses a webname of 'fckakhan'?
WHO is this really?
I live in an area with lots of Sunnis, I've met several 'burqua chix' nymphos with illegitimate babies, but none of them uses this kind of language.
Which leads me to think this is some dude pretending to be a 'Muslim Princess."
NOTE FROM ADMIN:
-----------------------
I am asking all of you to refrain from putting any external link to your posts. I will delete them. External links are not allowed here for a simple reason, the file linked can be offensive and can change any time and people can even replace the file by an adulte content or insults to our Imam. Who then will take the responsibility. NO EXTERNAL LINK ALLOWED IN THIS FORUM. TAKE NOTE!
What kind of "Muslim Princess" uses a webname of 'fckakhan'?
WHO is this really?
I live in an area with lots of Sunnis, I've met several 'burqua chix' nymphos with illegitimate babies, but none of them uses this kind of language.
Which leads me to think this is some dude pretending to be a 'Muslim Princess."
NOTE FROM ADMIN:
-----------------------
I am asking all of you to refrain from putting any external link to your posts. I will delete them. External links are not allowed here for a simple reason, the file linked can be offensive and can change any time and people can even replace the file by an adulte content or insults to our Imam. Who then will take the responsibility. NO EXTERNAL LINK ALLOWED IN THIS FORUM. TAKE NOTE!