first article of preamble of Ismaili Constitution

Post by **Admin** » Thu Jul 21, 2016 6:29 pm

Send the scan at [email protected] and I will post it here

It is always a pleasure to prove you wrong.

Admin

Post by **Admin** » Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:38 pm

shivaathervedi wrote: 3. Absurd, it is not about new Du'a. But the old du'a which you have posted on your Heritage site.
4. When I am writing about old Du'a, obviously there is no need of discussing lizikrhi.

Yes your post is absurd. When you have tried to misled people quoting a Farman and trying to make it look like it is about the new Dua, and when you are caught in your lies, you say different things, the questions are still there. Reply to them. This is about the Dua that you are quoting, is it Sujooda to the Imam or not in the Dua for which the Farman is made? And why now are you trying to escape the question about what is in this Dua? Don't try to be slippery like a soap!

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:18 am

shivaathervedi wrote:You gave example of AYAT E NOOR, please read the complete Ayat carefully ,
Allah says," wa yadhribullahu amsaal lin naas". Means Allah make forth PARABLES for men..

Yes the Qur'an is allegorical. Allah is not the physical light and the Imam of course is not the bearer of physical light. Therefore my logic prevails.

shivaathervedi wrote: You wrote Gold is not water.... This shear nonsense. If you have right to give example from geometry, why I shall not from chemistry.
In above ginan can you explain what you mean by DEV and I see no where in couplet the word formless is used.

You did not read my whole post. I provided the translation. The Niraakaar is formless. Dev is God or Lord.

I said Allah = Light based on the Qur'an

What is your assertion that gold = water based upon?

I said Imam is Noor based on what you said.

What is the basis of saying that wood = gold?

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:28 am

shivaathervedi wrote:Your first sentence does not suit you by writing you are NOW, the murid told lie, that means Imam encourages ignorance. I gave my assessment as you deduced the result..

Your assessment is that my deduction that the Imam is Malikinaas and hence Illahinaas and Rabanaas is incorrect.

Please provide what the correct deduction of the Farman is.

If you say that Imam is not Malikinaas, then you are implying that the murid was ignorant and the Imam accepted his ignorance.

shivaathervedi wrote: By the way you did not answered my second portion of post. During the same visit Imam used the phrases INSHALLAH AND THANKS ALLAH FOR HIS BLESSINGS....DURING DEEDAR.
Please don't write these words he said in capacity of pir.

Why not? Is not the Imam both the Shah and the Pir and does he not tell us he prays for us. Inshallah is a common phrase and in common situations the Imam uses common expressions. Not a big deal.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:24 am

shivaathervedi wrote:ADMIN DO NOT BLAME ME, YOU AND OTHERS;

I am posting a paragraph of old Du'a available on your Heritage site.

There is no deity except God, Muhammad is the Apostle of God, the Commander of the Faithful is Ali -- who is from Allah; God is sufficient for us, the Most Excellent Protector and Most Excellent Lord and Most Excellent Helper. O Our Lord! we pray for forgiveness of our sins and to Thee is our eventual coming.
LOOK AT WORDS: ALI WHO IS FROM ALLAH.

As I have said earlier, in an esoteric faith there are layers of meaning. It is not just one layer. Dua is read by everyone today including non-Ismailis. Therefore the meaning Ali who is from Allah is a basic meaning which will not give offence. But that is not the meaning WITHIN our Jamat.

It is true that MSMS changed the Kalma in the late 40s. But it was not intended that the meaning would change as well. Aliyullah is less offensive than Ali Sahi Allah.

MSMS related about this matter to Dr Nathoo who had a discussion with him about many matters. You can access the whole discussion at:

MY GLORIOUS FORTNIGHT WITH SIR SULTAN MUHAMMAD SHAH
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... opic&t=335

Pertinent quote about this matter:

"The first thing he had told me on his own was, when he was in my surgery in Nairobi, why he had recently modified the original Ismaili Kalma where the Kalma ended with words, “Amirulmominin Ali Sahi Allah” to “Amirulmominin Aliullah”. He told me that some leaders of the sister community had told him unofficially that if he modified the Kalma to “Aliyun Vali Allah”, they would all come into Ismailism. “Aliullah” was the most that he could accept."

From the above it is quite clear that the Imam did not intend to call himself valli who is from Allah, but rather the meaning would not change. Aliyullah is less offensive and versatile and can be interpreted to accomodate various beliefs including yours of course.

shivaathervedi · Post by **shivaathervedi** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:11 pm

Admin wrote:Send the scan at [email protected] and I will post it here

It is always a pleasure to prove you wrong.

Admin

So far you have not admitted that the meaning of old Du'a which you posted on Heritage site contain the meaning of Aliyullah as ALI IS FROM ALLAH.
YES OR NO.
You have habit of deleting or editing the sentences which goes against your thinking.
It is also my pleasure to catch your mistakes and prove you wrong.
In coming days you will be provided with copy of farman printed with OLD DU'A you asked for as was provided the copy of farman which reads ALI IS FROM ALLAH to you.
BUT YOU HAVE TO ABIDE BY YOUR PROMISE TO POST THE SAID FARMAN.

shivaathervedi · Post by **shivaathervedi** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:17 pm

I have Du'a meaning printed by two different ITREB's, there the translation of phrase ALIYULLAH in second part is given as ALI MIN JANIB ALLAH MEANS ALI IS FROM ALLAH. Obviously ITREB represent Imam of the time and constitutionally installed by him.

Post by **Admin** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:26 pm

shivaathervedi wrote:
So far you have not admitted that the meaning of old Du'a which you posted on Heritage site contain the meaning of Aliyullah as ALI IS FROM ALLAH.
YES OR NO.

The translator can translate as he wants. we do not verify not agree with all translations. We make available all of them. For example there are ginans for which we have made available 4 or 5 different translations by different people.

This said I suggest you find the minutes of the Evian Conference in 1952 and read what Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah said about Ali Sahi Allah. That is, if you want to know, do your own research, don't ask where to find.

The song says:
Slippery fish, slippery fish, sliding through the water,
Slippery fish, slippery fish, Gulp, Gulp, Gulp!
Oh, no! It’s been eaten by a Tuna Fish

Post by **Admin** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:33 pm

shivaathervedi wrote:... the copy of farman which reads ALI IS FROM ALLAH to you.
BUT YOU HAVE TO ABIDE BY YOUR PROMISE TO POST THE SAID FARMAN.

I have verified just now the [email protected] email account and there is nothing that you have send. I doubt there is any such Farman saying Ali is FROM Allah. Maybe in your imagination or your translation.

In any case you have been replied by K.M. in a manner that any reasonable person would understand. If not, go for Evian Conference 1952.

shivaathervedi · Post by **shivaathervedi** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:36 pm

Admin wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote: 3. Absurd, it is not about new Du'a. But the old du'a which you have posted on your Heritage site.
4. When I am writing about old Du'a, obviously there is no need of discussing lizikrhi.
Yes your post is absurd. When you have tried to misled people quoting a Farman and trying to make it look like it is about the new Dua, and when you are caught in your lies, you say different things, the questions are still there. Reply to them. This is about the Dua that you are quoting, is it Sujooda to the Imam or not in the Dua for which the Farman is made? And why now are you trying to escape the question about what is in this Dua? Don't try to be slippery like a soap!

Not my post but your thinking is absurd. For discrediting me your approach is negative. You posted and answered lower part of my post and disappeared the upper part. Instead of admitting you wrote the wrong sentence and when I gave you clarification you disappeared that portion to avoid shame.
You should had read my post carefully but like a teenager without thinking started criticism without thinking. Question arises of your credibility.
Let me quote what I wrote," In old Du'a on 11 places the phrase ALIYULLA IS USED". You did not paid attention to that. Obviously in new Du'a ALIYULLA is not used 11 times.
Then I quoted kalimah Shahadah at end of Old Du'a which also read as ALIYULLAH, which we do not recite at end of new Du'a. So how come you are relating my post to new Du'a?

shivaathervedi · Post by **shivaathervedi** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:52 pm

Admin wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:... the copy of farman which reads ALI IS FROM ALLAH to you.
BUT YOU HAVE TO ABIDE BY YOUR PROMISE TO POST THE SAID FARMAN.
I have verified just now the [email protected] email account and there is nothing that you have send. I doubt there is any such Farman saying Ali is FROM Allah. Maybe in your imagination or your translation.

In any case you have been replied by K.M. in a manner that any reasonable person would understand. If not, go for Evian Conference 1952.

You have so hatred about me in your mind that you are not reading the post properly and start shooting. Do not cut half my post to deceive the readers.
I wrote that the farman printed with the old Du'a WILL BE PROVIDED TO YOU IN COMING DAYS ( WHICH YOU ASKED FOR ) AS YOU WERE PROVIDED THE FARMAN MENTIONED ALI IS FROM ALLAH ( IN PAST). I think my post is in simple English, isn't it!

Post by **Admin** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:58 pm

No one is contesting Aliyullah, what is contested is your interpretation of Aliyullah and the fact that you pretend that Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah said that Aliyullah means Ali is from Allah.

These are misrepresentation made inthe name of the Imam. The Imam approves changes in Dua but not the translations which are added later.

This is why there is an expression that says "to translate is to betray". The original is an old Italian saying: "Traduttore, traditore." and in French we always say "Traduire, c'est trahir "

shivaathervedi · Post by **shivaathervedi** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 2:07 pm

Admin wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:
So far you have not admitted that the meaning of old Du'a which you posted on Heritage site contain the meaning of Aliyullah as ALI IS FROM ALLAH.
YES OR NO.
The translator can translate as he wants. we do not verify not agree with all translations. We make available all of them. For example there are ginans for which we have made available 4 or 5 different translations by different people.

This said I suggest you find the minutes of the Evian Conference in 1952 and read what Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah said about Ali Sahi Allah. That is, if you want to know, do your own research, don't ask where to find.

The song says:
Slippery fish, slippery fish, sliding through the water,
Slippery fish, slippery fish, Gulp, Gulp, Gulp!
Oh, no! It’s been eaten by a Tuna Fish

YOU ARE RUNNING THE SHOW AND YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE, WHY NOT YOU CHECKED IN FIRST PLACE THAT THIS IS GOING AGAINST THE SATPUNTHI PHILOSOPHY? How come you have been deleting and editing my posts which in your mind were against your philosophy? Why you people keep arguing with me when already the same phrase ALI IS FROM ALLAH EXISTS ON THIS FORUM, and Kmaherali in reply to a question has wrote the same thing without thinking when he knows basic Arabic.
When words in Du'a are changed by Imam the meaning will change accordingly. Words speak for themselves.

shivaathervedi · Post by **shivaathervedi** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 2:17 pm

Admin wrote:No one is contesting Aliyullah, what is contested is your interpretation of Aliyullah and the fact that you pretend that Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah said that Aliyullah means Ali is from Allah.

These are misrepresentation made inthe name of the Imam. The Imam approves changes in Dua but not the translations which are added later.

This is why there is an expression that says "to translate is to betray". The original is an old Italian saying: "Traduttore, traditore." and in French we always say "Traduire, c'est trahir "

I never wrote MSMS said, I gave reference of present Hazar Imam.
ITREB's represent Imam of the time and in Du'a meaning printed by them you can find the meaning of ALIYULLA as ALI IS FROM ALLAH.
Follow the HIDAYAT of the present Imam.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Sat Jul 23, 2016 12:41 am

shivaathervedi wrote: Follow the HIDAYAT of the present Imam.

Absolutely! Follow the Farman of the Imam. Don't get hung up upon the basic level of meaning which is applicable to non-Ismailis as well and which does not give offence.

Follow the Farman about our esoteric tradition for which there is a different understanding and levels of meaning for the Jamat.

Follow the Paris Conference resolutions about the Imam being the Mazhar of Allah.

Follow the Farman about the Imam being the Malikinass, Illahinaas and Rabanaas.

shivaathervedi · Post by **shivaathervedi** » Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:14 pm

Admin wrote:Send the scan at [email protected] and I will post it here

It is always a pleasure to prove you wrong.

Admin

You are provided with 2 pages including the farman. Please post them and prove me wrong.

shivaathervedi · Post by **shivaathervedi** » Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:24 pm

kmaherali wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote: Follow the HIDAYAT of the present Imam.
Absolutely! Follow the Farman of the Imam. Don't get hung up upon the basic level of meaning which is applicable to non-Ismailis as well and which does not give offence.

Follow the Farman about our esoteric tradition for which there is a different understanding and levels of meaning for the Jamat.

Follow the Paris Conference resolutions about the Imam being the Mazhar of Allah.

Follow the Farman about the Imam being the Malikinass, Illahinaas and Rabanaas.

Du'a is for Ismailis to recite and and not for non Ismailis. Follow the meaning
mentioned in Du'a booklets printed by ITREBs. Obviously that translation is with Imam's permission and he knows it.
You have a good collection of farmans, I challenge you to write/quote the farman in which he claimed to be RUBBIN NASS, MALIKIN NASS, ILAHIN NASS.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Sat Jul 23, 2016 4:43 pm

shivaathervedi wrote: You have a good collection of farmans, I challenge you to write/quote the farman in which he claimed to be RUBBIN NASS, MALIKIN NASS, ILAHIN NASS.

As I keep saying, you don't read my posts carefully. The Farman is on page 43 of this thread, read it applying your intellect.

Due is recited by Ismailis in Arabic. Each word conveys a meaning to a murid at a particular level. My meaning of a term will be different than yours. The Itreb provides an official version which is studied by non-Ismailis as well, hence the meaning should not give offence to them.

Post by **Admin** » Sat Jul 23, 2016 11:59 pm

Another simili is that there was an official video of iis visit by the Imam and he was shown various publications of the IIS. The Imam is the head of the Board of Governors of the IIS. He made a remark saying that he does not read all of the publications of his institution.

Post by **Admin** » Sun Jul 24, 2016 1:04 am

shivaathervedi wrote: You are provided with 2 pages including the farman. Please post them and prove me wrong.

We have not received anything in the email address we provided you.

Why don'y you just send again and retype the Farman in its entirety meanwhile here. I suppose it should no be very long.

In any case we know as per what Imam said in 1952 in Evian that he could never say Aliyullah means Ali is from Allah, on the contrary he said that those who say" Ali Sahi Allah is wrong" are wrong themselves.

So yes, please post and we'll be happy to prove you wrong.

shivaathervedi · Post by **shivaathervedi** » Sun Jul 24, 2016 4:59 pm

kmaherali wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote: You have a good collection of farmans, I challenge you to write/quote the farman in which he claimed to be RUBBIN NASS, MALIKIN NASS, ILAHIN NASS.
As I keep saying, you don't read my posts carefully. The Farman is on page 43 of this thread, read it applying your intellect.

Due is recited by Ismailis in Arabic. Each word conveys a meaning to a murid at a particular level. My meaning of a term will be different than yours. The Itreb provides an official version which is studied by non-Ismailis as well, hence the meaning should not give offence to them.

I asked you directly that does any farman by Hazar Imam claiming he is RUBBIN NAAS, ILAHIN NAAS, MALIKIN NAAS exists and available or not? Your answer is VAGUE statement for nothing.Your answer should be YES OR NO. Please do not misguide readers and youth by your inducing and deducing theories.
Simple question does that RUBBIN NAAS farman exists or not?
Hazar Imam has been emphasizing his followers to learn meaning of du'a so that they understand Ismailism properly. Is Imam scared of non Ismailis so that he asked to change meaning just to pacify these people, I don't think so.
When you are writing he is RUBBIN NAAS, ILAHIN NAAS, IS THIS NOT OFFENCIVE? THIS IS BLASPHEMOUS. YOUR MESSAGE IS GOING ALL OVER ON INTERNET.

shivaathervedi · Post by **shivaathervedi** » Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:15 pm

Admin wrote:Another simili is that there was an official video of iis visit by the Imam and he was shown various publications of the IIS. The Imam is the head of the Board of Governors of the IIS. He made a remark saying that he does not read all of the publications of his institution.

Hazar Imam is a busy person obviously he does not has enough time to read all publications. But my question is about Du'a which is most important and fundamental. Imam said Du'a is foundation of our Tariqa. Imam has been emphasizing to recite Du'a 3 times daily and learn its meaning. When Imam has given Du'a he knows the meaning which on his instructions ITREBs
printed for murids to understand and follow. The meaning of ALIYULLA in printed booklets of Du'a by ITREB is " ALI IS FROM ALLAH".

shivaathervedi · Post by **shivaathervedi** » Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:28 pm

Admin wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote: You are provided with 2 pages including the farman. Please post them and prove me wrong.
We have not received anything in the email address we provided you.

Why don'y you just send again and retype the Farman in its entirety meanwhile here. I suppose it should no be very long.

In any case we know as per what Imam said in 1952 in Evian that he could never say Aliyullah means Ali is from Allah, on the contrary he said that those who say" Ali Sahi Allah is wrong" are wrong themselves.

So yes, please post and we'll be happy to prove you wrong.

Once again cover page and back page covering farman in Khojki of the old Du'a booklet is e - mailed to you on your heritage address ie, [email protected]
Both times it was confirmed that e mail sent successfully. Please post it.
Can you explain the line you quoted of MSMS at Evian saying," on the contrary he said those who say, Ali sahi Allah is wrong".

shivaathervedi · Post by **shivaathervedi** » Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:37 pm

I wished the farmans made by MSMS in between 1951 and July 1957 be published so that seniors and our youths should understand what changes he made during last years of his Imamat. We do not have his farmans in book form after KIM, though these important farmans are buried in CLASSIFIED FILES.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:43 pm

shivaathervedi wrote: I asked you directly that does any farman by Hazar Imam claiming he is RUBBIN NAAS, ILAHIN NAAS, MALIKIN NAAS exists and available or not?.

Yes it exists and it Iis on page 43 of this thread.I can't post it over and over!

You don't read my post!

shivaathervedi · Post by **shivaathervedi** » Sun Jul 24, 2016 6:28 pm

kmaherali wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote:ADMIN DO NOT BLAME ME, YOU AND OTHERS;

I am posting a paragraph of old Du'a available on your Heritage site.

There is no deity except God, Muhammad is the Apostle of God, the Commander of the Faithful is Ali -- who is from Allah; God is sufficient for us, the Most Excellent Protector and Most Excellent Lord and Most Excellent Helper. O Our Lord! we pray for forgiveness of our sins and to Thee is our eventual coming.
LOOK AT WORDS: ALI WHO IS FROM ALLAH.
As I have said earlier, in an esoteric faith there are layers of meaning. It is not just one layer. Dua is read by everyone today including non-Ismailis. Therefore the meaning Ali who is from Allah is a basic meaning which will not give offence. But that is not the meaning WITHIN our Jamat.

It is true that MSMS changed the Kalma in the late 40s. But it was not intended that the meaning would change as well. Aliyullah is less offensive than Ali Sahi Allah.

MSMS related about this matter to Dr Nathoo who had a discussion with him about many matters. You can access the whole discussion at:

MY GLORIOUS FORTNIGHT WITH SIR SULTAN MUHAMMAD SHAH
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... opic&t=335

Pertinent quote about this matter:

"The first thing he had told me on his own was, when he was in my surgery in Nairobi, why he had recently modified the original Ismaili Kalma where the Kalma ended with words, “Amirulmominin Ali Sahi Allah” to “Amirulmominin Aliullah”. He told me that some leaders of the sister community had told him unofficially that if he modified the Kalma to “Aliyun Vali Allah”, they would all come into Ismailism. “Aliullah” was the most that he could accept."

From the above it is quite clear that the Imam did not intend to call himself valli who is from Allah, but rather the meaning would not change. Aliyullah is less offensive and versatile and can be interpreted to accomodate various beliefs including yours of course.

Du'a is meant for all Ismailis from 5 years old to 100 years with different levels of understanding and intellectual levels, it is not for particularly BK members with HIGHER IQ RELIGIOUS LEVELS AND INNER LAYERS.
You know basic Arabic and grammar of MUDHAF AND MUDHAFUN ILAIHI, so you can understand the meaning of ALIYULLAH.
The word Wali is important in Shia theology. In early history of Ismailism it was common and mentioned in many books written by Ismaili Dais. Many changes MSMS made were because of Khoja Isna'shiri factor who drifted away from Ismailism. For example; black clothing, the word wali, stoppage from Muharum activities, even not eating with them or marriages.
There are many narrations of events by senior missionaries and other community members. Mostly are exaggerated. These stories can not be varied by other sources and usually we give them benefit of doubt. The statement by that Dentist shows Imam compromised on a very important fact. Haqq is Haqq can't be compromised. I wander MSMS was so influenced by sister communities that he changed the KALIMAH!! Strange!!

shivaathervedi · Post by **shivaathervedi** » Sun Jul 24, 2016 6:38 pm

kmaherali wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote: I asked you directly that does any farman by Hazar Imam claiming he is RUBBIN NAAS, ILAHIN NAAS, MALIKIN NAAS exists and available or not?.
Yes it exists and it Iis on page 43 of this thread.I can't post it over and over!

You don't read my post!

I read the original farman and page 43 of this thread. No need to post again.

Once again I am asking you, DID IMAM HIMSELF SAID AND CLAIMED THAT HE IS RUBBIN NAAS, ILLAHIN NAAS, MALIMIN NAAS. YES OR NO.

Post by **Admin** » Sun Jul 24, 2016 6:55 pm

shivaathervedi wrote: Once again cover page and back page covering farman in Khojki of the old Du'a booklet is e - mailed to you on your heritage address ie, [email protected]
Both times it was confirmed that e mail sent successfully.

I have just received from your account named Sundal Hashwani as per time, it is written today 2:59pm just for your info.

There is nowhere to be seen in the documents you have sent that Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah may have said anything about the translation of Aliyullah.

Here is the document received, couple of pages in Khojki from the Dua Book.

Those who read Khojki can confirm what I am saying.

http://ismaili.net/timeline/1950/dua-kh ... -cover.pdf

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Sun Jul 24, 2016 10:55 pm

shivaathervedi wrote: I read the original farman and page 43 of this thread. No need to post again.

Once again I am asking you, DID IMAM HIMSELF SAID AND CLAIMED THAT HE IS RUBBIN NAAS, ILLAHIN NAAS, MALIMIN NAAS. YES OR NO.

YES he has if you have any intelligence.

He said in the Farman that he was Malikinaas in the Ayat which clearly says that Malikinaas, Illahinaas and Rabbanaas are one! That is what all commentators of the Qur'an say.

Hence if he is Malikinaas, he is also Illahinaas andRabbanaas. Simple logic!!

Esoteric faith means that the meaning is for the Jamat only.

Esoteric ideas have esoteric and indirect ways of expression.

shivaathervedi · Post by **shivaathervedi** » Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:59 pm

kmaherali wrote:
shivaathervedi wrote: I read the original farman and page 43 of this thread. No need to post again.

Once again I am asking you, DID IMAM HIMSELF SAID AND CLAIMED THAT HE IS RUBBIN NAAS, ILLAHIN NAAS, MALIMIN NAAS. YES OR NO.
YES he has if you have any intelligence.

He said in the Farman that he was Malikinaas in the Ayat which clearly says that Malikinaas, Illahinaas and Rabbanaas are one! That is what all commentators of the Qur'an say.

Hence if he is Malikinaas, he is also Illahinaas andRabbanaas. Simple logic!!

Esoteric faith means that the meaning is for the Jamat only.

Esoteric ideas have esoteric and indirect ways of expression.

Karim I do not follow your intelligence. I do not want hanky panky.
I asked you in clear wordings, please quote the the farman in which according to you he claimed to be RUBBIN NAAS, ILAHIN NAAS, MALIKIN NAAS IN CLEAR WORDINGS. Your statement is BLASPHEMOUS AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LOGIC AND THERE COULD BE REPERCUSSIONS.