Laila-tul-Qadr

[shivaathervedi]

Ya Ali Madad.
As most learned members are active on this topic.
I have few questions and need answers on it.?
As prophet was a simple unlearned person before the powerful night.
before that event
1. what religion he was following or practicing ?
2. Did he meditate in those caves?
3. Was he doing physical posturing 5 time a day?
4.What was his effort for the night of power and salvation.? Islam.prayers,blah blah all came from him after attaining prophethood.

The Prophet was raised by the Imam of the time and therefore was a murid of the Imam before the 'revelations'. He was the Ismaili Pir and therefore responsible for the disemmination of faith to his murids.

According to Mowlana Rumi, the designation of Ummi implied that his knowledge was innate, he did not acquire it.

Since he was the murid of the Imam, he was following our tariqah practices that were then available. He must have had a zikr, although being a Pir he would have been enlightened and hence in constant Deedar of the Imam.

The 'revelations' were only from the zaheri point of view - with respect to the world. However in reality and a batini point of view, he was in constant touch with the source of revelations.

I think your following sentence is not appropriate. You wrote," He (Prophet) was an Ismaili pir'. There weren't Satpunthi Ismailis present at time of Prophet. There were mostly Arabs. Also none of Muslim History dubbed him as ISMAILI PIR. If he was Satputhi pir then all Muslims today should have been called Satpunthi Ismailis.
Your quote of Rumi is correct. Ummi is from root letters umm means mother or foundation. Prophet was foundation of Islam. To call him illiterate is not appropriate.
You wrote," He was following OUR Tariqa practices that were than available.
So according to you he was saying Dua, fasting bheej, paying dasond. We don't have record of such activities at that time, instead he fasted in month of Ramadan, pray namaz, went on Hajj. so which version is correct according to you. If you admit in different times tariqa changed, like at time of Mowla Ali, then Imam Ja'far Sadiq, then Fatimi period, then Satpunthi period same way it was changed in 20th century and can be further changed in 21st century.
Please don't remind me of essence, we are discussing mode of practices.

[shivaathervedi]

Regarding Ismailis they have living Imam who guides them under such situations what to do. He will set the timings without breaking Islamic Laws.

I am not aware of Islamic law or Sunna setting Dua prayers. Dia and Sslat are two different things.

ASAK

From your posts I assume you are well versed in Quran and Sunnah.
Can you tell me is there any complete tariqa of salat/namaz mentioned in Quran. During Mecca life Prophet started 2 times salat, then he started 3 times and later on during Madina period he raised to 4/5 times. The Bukhari hadith of 50 times and reduced to 5 times is a weak Hadith. Quran does not mentions complete 5 times in any single ayat with word salat. Different denominations in Islam have different WAYS AND PRACTICE of performing salat. The main difference is in SUNNI AND SHIA PRACTICE. If you talk about sunni tariqa of salat all 4 major tariqas perform in different ways, be it Hanafi, Shafa'i. Humbili or Maliki. There are Shia communities who say Azan 5 times but pray sala/namaz 3 times. Ismails pray salat 3 times according to Quranic ayat of surah HUD ayat 114. So why Ismailis are cursed and targeted. Ismailis are following Quran. Beside any Ismaili who want to say salat with his Muslim brother or sisters are allowed and there are no restrictions on them but they must pray 3 times Dua/salat/namaz what ever any one call.

[ismaili103]

paying dasond.

Ismailism is the religion of every Prophet and messenger came on earth.

Prophet Abraham used to pay 10 percent tithe to Imam Malchezedek( Imam of the time). Its written in Bible.

Dasond is actually 12.5% , but Prophet Abraham himself was Pir of the time and 2.5% is of Pir.

I'm sure concept of Dasond was exist at the time of Prophet Muhammad.

[kmaherali]

I think your following sentence is not appropriate. You wrote," He (Prophet) was an Ismaili pir'. There weren't Satpunthi Ismailis present at time of Prophet. There were mostly Arabs. Also none of Muslim History dubbed him as ISMAILI PIR. If he was Satputhi pir then all Muslims today should have been called Satpunthi Ismailis..

The notion of Piratan is not restricted to Satpanth Ismailis. It was also part of other Ismaili traditions, though the term would have been hujjat. Most of the Muslim history is written by people who have no understanding of Piratan. If they don't understand this concept, they will not look for it in history. However for Ismailis who believe that Imamat and Piratan always existed even before the Qur'an was revealed, then we have documented history of the Pirs at least from the time of the Prophet.

MSMS made the following Farman about Piratan of the Prophet:

"When Nabi Mohammed Mustafa departed from this world he appointed Pir Imam Hasan as his successor to carry on the work. Similarly, Murtaza Ali appointed Imam Husayn as the Imam after him." (Gujrati Farman book 'Kutchh na Farman' pages 8-9.)

Hence there was a form of Ismailism of which the Prophet was the Pir and who appointed Hazarat Hasan to carry out that function.


Most Muslims did not recognize him as the Satpanth Pir. They only recognized him as the Prophet of Allah. Therefore it does not follow that because he was the Ismaili Pir, all the Muslims would also be Satpanthi. Satpanth Ismailism is a batini tradition restricted to only an infinite minority just like today.

You wrote," He was following OUR Tariqa practices that were than available.
So according to you he was saying Dua, fasting bheej, paying dasond. We don't have record of such activities at that time, instead he fasted in month of Ramadan, pray namaz, went on Hajj. so which version is correct according to you. If you admit in different times tariqa changed, like at time of Mowla Ali, then Imam Ja'far Sadiq, then Fatimi period, then Satpunthi period same way it was changed in 20th century and can be further changed in 21st century.
Please don't remind me of essence, we are discussing mode of practices.

The notion of Dasond has been established since creation and hence it must have been practiced by the Pirs since creation. For more on this go to:

Dasoond / Dasond / Daswand
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... 90&start=0

[kmaherali]

Kbhai, ASAK

Here is last paragraph of article you linked

Alkayali says that individuals have the power to counteract anti-Muslim rhetoric through acts of kindness. “The media can sing hatred and war and fear all day long, but it comes down to this, 'What are you doing?' "

ASAK, Yes Muslims should be ethical in their behavior and this would correctly project a good image of Islam. However it does not follow that good ethics = 5 pillars.

One could be observing the 5 pillars and yet kill others for their beliefs!

Hence in today's world it is not necessary to highlight the 5 pillars as the fundamental principles of faith, they don't reflect Islam's essence.

[shivaathervedi]

paying dasond.

Ismailism is the religion of every Prophet and messenger came on earth.

Prophet Abraham used to pay 10 percent tithe to Imam Malchezedek( Imam of the time). Its written in Bible.

Dasond is actually 12.5% , but Prophet Abraham himself was Pir of the time and 2.5% is of Pir.

I'm sure concept of Dasond was exist at the time of Prophet Muhammad.

For 4 points you mentioned need references from Bible, Quran, or any other book. For modern scholarship quotations without references are not considered valid.

[shivaathervedi]

I think your following sentence is not appropriate. You wrote," He (Prophet) was an Ismaili pir'. There weren't Satpunthi Ismailis present at time of Prophet. There were mostly Arabs. Also none of Muslim History dubbed him as ISMAILI PIR. If he was Satputhi pir then all Muslims today should have been called Satpunthi Ismailis..

The notion of Piratan is not restricted to Satpanth Ismailis. It was also part of other Ismaili traditions, though the term would have been hujjat. Most of the Muslim history is written by people who have no understanding of Piratan. If they don't understand this concept, they will not look for it in history. However for Ismailis who believe that Imamat and Piratan always existed even before the Qur'an was revealed, then we have documented history of the Pirs at least from the time of the Prophet.

MSMS made the following Farman about Piratan of the Prophet:

"When Nabi Mohammed Mustafa departed from this world he appointed Pir Imam Hasan as his successor to carry on the work. Similarly, Murtaza Ali appointed Imam Husayn as the Imam after him." (Gujrati Farman book 'Kutchh na Farman' pages 8-9.)

Hence there was a form of Ismailism of which the Prophet was the Pir and who appointed Hazarat Hasan to carry out that function.


Most Muslims did not recognize him as the Satpanth Pir. They only recognized him as the Prophet of Allah. Therefore it does not follow that because he was the Ismaili Pir, all the Muslims would also be Satpanthi. Satpanth Ismailism is a batini tradition restricted to only an infinite minority just like today.

You wrote," He was following OUR Tariqa practices that were than available.
So according to you he was saying Dua, fasting bheej, paying dasond. We don't have record of such activities at that time, instead he fasted in month of Ramadan, pray namaz, went on Hajj. so which version is correct according to you. If you admit in different times tariqa changed, like at time of Mowla Ali, then Imam Ja'far Sadiq, then Fatimi period, then Satpunthi period same way it was changed in 20th century and can be further changed in 21st century.
Please don't remind me of essence, we are discussing mode of practices.

The notion of Dasond has been established since creation and hence it must have been practiced by the Pirs since creation. For more on this go to:

Dasoond / Dasond / Daswand
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... 90&start=0

Did God devised the Piratan system only for Satpunthis and forgot about other human beings. You wrote," Most Muslims did not recognized him as Satpunthi Pir". Again what about apart from Muslims rest of humans?
Why this Batini taste of spiritualism is meant for Satpunthis and neglecting other good fellas.
I am aware 10% tithe is from time of Prophet Adam. I know many christian pay tithe will they have noorani deedar though they do not believe in Satpunthi pirs and on the contrary majority of Satpunthis do not pay Dasond and still they are entitled for noorani deedar, strange, is our God without justice?

[Admin]

on the contrary majority of Satpunthis do not pay Dasond and still they are entitled for noorani deedar, strange, is our God without justice?

Actually can you please explain to us how you come to "KNOW" that Satpanthis no not pay Dasond? Have you been sitting near the Mukhis paat and counting who gives Dassond and from what origin he is?

Would you say people from your origin and area gives more Dassond then people from my origin and area? And I have to say with respect that if you are able to get this kind of information, you should be God HImself. Are you God posting under different names (we always say Ali you have 1,000 names. I don't know the thousand names but I have identified at least 10 of yours)

I don't know if you understand but your postings are becoming more and more of a nonsense and a waste of time beside being insulting for Satpanthis which according to the rules will at some point eject you from this Forum.

[nuseri]

Ya Ali Madad.
Kmaherali was right on dot on status of prophet.he gave a summary form Khojas view of Noor e Pirantan/Mohammed.
Moulana Rumi was a Rasikulfilm.
If all quacks who did tafseer of holy book they could NOT get one and also few dozens IMPORTANT WORDS in holy book right.They have ashtrayed the the whole Ummah.
prophet was ordained by God even when a human being was formed by God.
His coming is mentioned and hinted in Many sayings of the past.
All prophets follow the basics religion of humanitarianism.
there is hadith to this effect
" Best of religion in service to mankind"
What is followed by one's physical act, personal behaviour, private dressings of a person is mimicking, rituals ,traditions and may not define religion in totality.( Faith is Million Miles away)

for Masnavi of Rumi.
Imam SMS said that is like a Quran in farsi Language.
One can try to study the date and year of Holy night of power. it would observe small gap and co realtion to age of Jesus christ when he died death also coming to manhood of Hz Ali in that period.
prophet came with the companionship of the High that is ALI was there with him flesh and support.
same has been said what prophet achieved in memiors of SMS
difference between we and prophet is that the night of power came as his RIGHT
after SUCCESSFULLY passing stages all previous role as prophet/Pirantan.
for us that night is out of effort,which can be many life cycles.
many time I wrote that ALI has signed his name as ALi+Lah= Allah
in the holy book.
when we sign we have name and family name.
Just two days back I reread the very first line of Khutba e bayan/Farman of Hz ALI
I am the SIGN of the most High.
the word sign can in person,name or expression of name,etc.
after few line says
I am the Creator.
A person with Imaan on ALI must never have second thought or close the understanding of its low or average grade common sense/blocked mind.
I appreciate the effort and answer of kmaherali once again

[kmaherali]

Did God devised the Piratan system only for Satpunthis and forgot about other human beings. You wrote," Most Muslims did not recognized him as Satpunthi Pir". Again what about apart from Muslims rest of humans?
Why this Batini taste of spiritualism is meant for Satpunthis and neglecting other good fellas.
I am aware 10% tithe is from time of Prophet Adam. I know many christian pay tithe will they have noorani deedar though they do not believe in Satpunthi pirs and on the contrary majority of Satpunthis do not pay Dasond and still they are entitled for noorani deedar, strange, is our God without justice?

Piratan is associated with esotericism, which by definition is available only to those who have the capacity for it. It is not meant for everyone - it is a batini concept. This applies to other esoteric faiths and tariqahs as well. Only a few are given admission due to the strict and rigorous rules rquired.

If a person is a good fella according to the judgement of the Pir, he will be accepted in the tariqah.

According to Anant Akhado, dasond was established since creation:

Aashaajee Sun-kaall maanhe thee rachanaa keedhee
tees deen dasond leekhaannee jee
Gur geenaan ved vichaaro
to dasond veena nahee chhuto............Haree anant..356

Oh Lord From the primordial void the Lord created the universe
it is from that day the practice of the tithe has been
established
If you reflect upon the guidance of the Guide and the
scriptures including the ginaans and the vedas
you will realise that without the tithe , the salvation
of the soul is not possible
Haree You are eternal...

[ismaili103]

paying dasond.

Ismailism is the religion of every Prophet and messenger came on earth.

Prophet Abraham used to pay 10 percent tithe to Imam Malchezedek( Imam of the time). Its written in Bible.

Dasond is actually 12.5% , but Prophet Abraham himself was Pir of the time and 2.5% is of Pir.

I'm sure concept of Dasond was exist at the time of Prophet Muhammad.

For 4 points you mentioned need references from Bible, Quran, or any other book. For modern scholarship quotations without references are not considered valid.

Everything is available on this forum, those vereses from Bible are quoted many times in this forum especially in thread related to Dasond, Karim bhai already gave you the link, go and read it.

[ismaili103]

Dasond in Bible

Hebrews 7:

1 This Melchizedek was King of Salem Priest of God Most High (El-Elyon). He met Abraham returning from the defeat of the kings and blessed him,

2 And Abraham gave him a tenth of everything. First, his name means “king of righteousness”; then also, “king of Salem” (King of Peace/Islam)

3 Without father or mother, without genealogy, WITHOUT BEGINNING OF DAYS OR END OF LIFE, but made (Divine) like the Son of God, HE REMAINS A PRIEST FOREVER. ( Imam Forever) ( Imam never Dies according to Imam Sultan Mohd Shah)

[shivaathervedi]

Dasond in Bible

Hebrews 7:

1 This Melchizedek was King of Salem Priest of God Most High (El-Elyon). He met Abraham returning from the defeat of the kings and blessed him,

2 And Abraham gave him a tenth of everything. First, his name means “king of righteousness”; then also, “king of Salem” (King of Peace/Islam)

3 Without father or mother, without genealogy, WITHOUT BEGINNING OF DAYS OR END OF LIFE, but made (Divine) like the Son of God, HE REMAINS A PRIEST FOREVER. ( Imam Forever) ( Imam never Dies according to Imam Sultan Mohd Shah)

You have repeated quote of Kandani in the thread 'imams before Ali'.
Do you know which area called SALEM. In which chapter of old testament the word Imam is mentioned.
You have given wrong information. In Hebrews 7 there is no mention of Melchizedek.
Please do not give wrong information and misguide, verify the source and than quote. Hebrews 7 says, I quote;
" And of the angels he saith, who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers
a flame of fire."

[shivaathervedi]

on the contrary majority of Satpunthis do not pay Dasond and still they are entitled for noorani deedar, strange, is our God without justice?

Actually can you please explain to us how you come to "KNOW" that Satpanthis no not pay Dasond? Have you been sitting near the Mukhis paat and counting who gives Dassond and from what origin he is?

Would you say people from your origin and area gives more Dassond then people from my origin and area? And I have to say with respect that if you are able to get this kind of information, you should be God HImself. Are you God posting under different names (we always say Ali you have 1,000 names. I don't know the thousand names but I have identified at least 10 of yours)

I don't know if you understand but your postings are becoming more and more of a nonsense and a waste of time beside being insulting for Satpanthis which according to the rules will at some point eject you from this Forum.

You are selecting a sentence of your choice and than start beating the drums.
You twisted my quote and wrote," how you come to Know that Satpunthis not pay Dasond". To clearify ypur sentence, I wrote, " MAJORITY of Satpunthis do not pay Dasond". What I wrote I stand by that. The information which I have through some leading Ismaili personalities, if I post you definitely will delete my account as your usual habit. Leave it there.
In Satpunthi literaure it is written if some one will not pay Dasond shall not have haqiqi or noorani deedar. Is this right or wrong? I am not insulting but giving right account.
I am not god, I am nothing. By the way you keep counting my avtars. I am not with my original name or particulars. Even I use computers of others, now keep guessing. I like that way.

[shivaathervedi]

Did God devised the Piratan system only for Satpunthis and forgot about other human beings. You wrote," Most Muslims did not recognized him as Satpunthi Pir". Again what about apart from Muslims rest of humans?
Why this Batini taste of spiritualism is meant for Satpunthis and neglecting other good fellas.
I am aware 10% tithe is from time of Prophet Adam. I know many christian pay tithe will they have noorani deedar though they do not believe in Satpunthi pirs and on the contrary majority of Satpunthis do not pay Dasond and still they are entitled for noorani deedar, strange, is our God without justice?

Piratan is associated with esotericism, which by definition is available only to those who have the capacity for it. It is not meant for everyone - it is a batini concept. This applies to other esoteric faiths and tariqahs as well. Only a few are given admission due to the strict and rigorous rules rquired.

If a person is a good fella according to the judgement of the Pir, he will be accepted in the tariqah.

According to Anant Akhado, dasond was established since creation:

Aashaajee Sun-kaall maanhe thee rachanaa keedhee
tees deen dasond leekhaannee jee
Gur geenaan ved vichaaro
to dasond veena nahee chhuto............Haree anant..356

Oh Lord From the primordial void the Lord created the universe
it is from that day the practice of the tithe has been
established
If you reflect upon the guidance of the Guide and the
scriptures including the ginaans and the vedas
you will realise that without the tithe , the salvation
of the soul is not possible
Haree You are eternal...

I have clearly wrote, TITHE IS FROM BEGINNING, so where is the problem!
My question was related to Dasond and Deedar. As you have been quoting ginans so you know well NO DASOND NO DEEDAR.
Our Tariqa is BATINI but still we follow ZAHIRI rituals. So far we have not merged any other esoteric Tariqa community or cult with ours on wholesale, though we have been associating with other sufi Tariqas for TAKIYA purpose.

[Admin]

I wrote, " MAJORITY of Satpunthis do not pay Dasond". What I wrote I stand by that.

Enough Nonsense! I have never seen such a sick mentality in my life.

[kmaherali]

I have clearly wrote, TITHE IS FROM BEGINNING, so where is the problem!.

You wrote: "I am aware 10% tithe is from time of Prophet Adam." Unless you consider Prophet Adam to be the beginning!

So far we have not merged any other esoteric Tariqa community or cult with ours on wholesale, though we have been associating with other sufi Tariqas for TAKIYA purpose.

There is strength in diversity and therefore it is better for each tariqah to express itself. There can be organizational issues when merging with other tariqahs.

[ismaili103]

I wrote, " MAJORITY of Satpunthis do not pay Dasond". What I wrote I stand by that.

Enough Nonsense! I have never seen such a sick mentality in my life.

He is Donald Trump of Ismailism,

BTW within the span of two week, two new ID registered in Ismaili.net one is Mirabedin and Independent, I'm 100% sure he now gets 12 avatars.

[ismaili103]

Dasond in Bible

Hebrews 7:

1 This Melchizedek was King of Salem Priest of God Most High (El-Elyon). He met Abraham returning from the defeat of the kings and blessed him,

2 And Abraham gave him a tenth of everything. First, his name means “king of righteousness”; then also, “king of Salem” (King of Peace/Islam)

3 Without father or mother, without genealogy, WITHOUT BEGINNING OF DAYS OR END OF LIFE, but made (Divine) like the Son of God, HE REMAINS A PRIEST FOREVER. ( Imam Forever) ( Imam never Dies according to Imam Sultan Mohd Shah)

You have repeated quote of Kandani in the thread 'imams before Ali'.
Do you know which area called SALEM. In which chapter of old testament the word Imam is mentioned.
You have given wrong information. In Hebrews 7 there is no mention of Melchizedek.
Please do not give wrong information and misguide, verify the source and than quote. Hebrews 7 says, I quote;
" And of the angels he saith, who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers
a flame of fire."

"He (Melchizedek) was the priest of God Most High, he blessed him (sic), and said. Blessed be Abram by God Most High, Master of Heaven and Earth blessed be God Most High, who has delivered your enemies into your hand! And he gave him a tenth of everything. " (Genesis 14:20)

"Indeed, this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of God Most High, who met Abraham before returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, to whom Abraham gave tithes of all - that is first King of righteousness, according to the meaning of its name, then King of Salem, that is to say, King of Peace - without father, without mother, without genealogy ... it remains Melchizedek priest continually ... consider how Grand that to which the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils. " ( hebrew 7)

[Admin]

Melchisedek should be discuss in Imam pre-Ali thread - Link here below:

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... 3&start=15

[shivaathervedi]

I wrote, " MAJORITY of Satpunthis do not pay Dasond". What I wrote I stand by that.

Enough Nonsense! I have never seen such a sick mentality in my life.

He is Donald Trump of Ismailism,

BTW within the span of two week, two new ID registered in Ismaili.net one is Mirabedin and Independent, I'm 100% sure he now gets 12 avatars.

Jai Shri Krishan,
You should be awarded Padma bhoshan for your reseach of 12 Avtars.
Keep checking members list you can find some more Avtars. By the way lately Admin martyr 2 innocent members nothing to do with me.
You did not answer my question, Is there any farman exists in which Imam said Jk is superior than Ka'ba. Do not hide behind Kmaherali come up with your research or be quite.

[shivaathervedi]

I wrote, " MAJORITY of Satpunthis do not pay Dasond". What I wrote I stand by that.

Enough Nonsense! I have never seen such a sick mentality in my life.

I do not have sick mentality you may have. You locked the Hindu mythology thread by noting 30 pages are enough and there is cut and paste posts.
Let me ask you there are many threads which crossed 30/40/50 pages, why you did not locked those threads. Mostly 70% posts on this forum are cut and paste what you have to say about that. You have cunning and hatred attitude towards me. The members who post wrong information and historical facts, why are they not been blocked. You realized I am going to start comparison between Hinduism and Satpunth you freaked and locked the thread. Previously you have locked many threads. Wise man learn to compete writing few misguided words and taunting are not helpful for this forum. Learn something from Kmaherali.

[ismaili103]

Jai Shri Krishan,
You should be awarded Padma bhoshan for your reseach of 12 Avtars.
Keep checking members list you can find some more Avtars. By the way lately Admin martyr 2 innocent members nothing to do with me.
You did not answer my question, Is there any farman exists in which Imam said Jk is superior than Ka'ba. Do not hide behind Kmaherali come up with your research or be quite.

Mowla Ali Madad,

There are no farmans by Imam in which he said JK is supirior than Kaaba, but there are farman in which Imam said, I'm always present in JK and this line is everything.

hajj in 7 days, I will be performing 952 hajj by attending JK 2 times for 7 days.

[ismaili103]

There are many Kaabas in the world,

Khan e Kaaba where Mowla Ali born
Geneva where Hazir Imam Born
Sultan Tekri where Imam Sultan Mohd shah Born
Ayodhya where Imam Raam born
Mathura where Imam Krishna Born

And many many many many more kaabas, just go and perform hajj there also

[Admin]

I wrote, " MAJORITY of Satpunthis do not pay Dasond". What I wrote I stand by that.

Enough Nonsense! I have never seen such a sick mentality in my life.

I do not have sick mentality you may have. You locked the Hindu mythology thread by noting 30 pages are enough and there is cut and paste posts.

You have been insulting the Satpanth tradition and the Ismailis or Indian origin since a long time now. Either you continue and I exit you (don't write asking that I reinstate you) or you stop your nonsense.

I have reminded you of the rule of this board which require that ismailis of all backgrounds should be respected. This applies also to you and all other Wahabi funded members who try to denigrate our Imam and our faith. This is not wahabi.net. i am sure they will welcome your posting there. I hope this is clear.

This thread is on Layltul Kadr, only post here appropriate subject related to the thread. Thanks you.

[shivaathervedi]

Jai Shri Krishan,
You should be awarded Padma bhoshan for your reseach of 12 Avtars.
Keep checking members list you can find some more Avtars. By the way lately Admin martyr 2 innocent members nothing to do with me.
You did not answer my question, Is there any farman exists in which Imam said Jk is superior than Ka'ba. Do not hide behind Kmaherali come up with your research or be quite.

Mowla Ali Madad,

There are no farmans by Imam in which he said JK is supirior than Kaaba, but there are farman in which Imam said, I'm always present in JK and this line is everything.

hajj in 7 days, I will be performing 952 hajj by attending JK 2 times for 7 days.

Namaskar,

Allah's Noor is present every ever and is not confined to JK only.
When there was no farman why you compared it?

[shivaathervedi]

There are many Kaabas in the world,

Khan e Kaaba where Mowla Ali born
Geneva where Hazir Imam Born
Sultan Tekri where Imam Sultan Mohd shah Born
Ayodhya where Imam Raam born
Mathura where Imam Krishna Born

And many many many many more kaabas, just go and perform hajj there also

RAM RAM Namaskar,

My Ka'ba is in my QALB,
And,
ANDAR BAITH MAI(N) NAMAZ GUZARU(N)
MURAKH KIA JANEY TAA'AT HAMARI

Thanks for information that still Din Bandu are visiting Ayodhya and Kashi for Hajj.

[ismaili103]

Jai Shri Krishan,
You should be awarded Padma bhoshan for your reseach of 12 Avtars.
Keep checking members list you can find some more Avtars. By the way lately Admin martyr 2 innocent members nothing to do with me.
You did not answer my question, Is there any farman exists in which Imam said Jk is superior than Ka'ba. Do not hide behind Kmaherali come up with your research or be quite.

Mowla Ali Madad,

There are no farmans by Imam in which he said JK is supirior than Kaaba, but there are farman in which Imam said, I'm always present in JK and this line is everything.

hajj in 7 days, I will be performing 952 hajj by attending JK 2 times for 7 days.

Namaskar,

Allah's Noor is present every ever and is not confined to JK only.
When there was no farman why you compared it?

Mowla Ali Madad,

BTW Jamatkhana is greater than Khan e Kaaba.

[nuseri]

Ya Ali Madad.
MHI recently said that most is 'CLASH OF IGNORANCE.'
Points of sesh naag on Kaaba and young member on JK may be partially right to some extent at zahiri level.
one is an iconic block of stone,why people circle around it. it sounds amusing to me,I may give it value because of birth of Hz Ali being born there.
as for Jk is also an physical struture used by Ismailis for their tariqa practice and some rituals common with khoja traditions.it is never the less source of great strength to those who attend regularly and it also a place where great socio economic, health check, intellectual activities takes place.
None of the above two is greater than human body with thinking mind.
abode of GOD is the heart of the person and human body is temple of GOD.
24X7 and not for once in life time of 2 hours a day.
our faith is of sufi tariqa, so one can connect to god all the time even without being present in JK.
there is a farman which goes like"Moman no Dil ee Khudvantalla no ghar chee"
this is an absolute of which is house of God.
Constructed buildings and monuments has no much value other than its architecture value.
Buildings of Harvard or MIT has no much value .It is valued for great extent for it LIVING faculty and to some extent for its UPDATED syllabus and library in it.
I have read about bhoot and palits circling around Pipal tree in some myth stories in childhood.
At absolute truth and baatin perception all Zahiri conclusion can be OBSERVED in many cases 'Clash of Ignorance.'

[kmaherali]

Two translations of Jalaluddin Rumi’s poem relating to the Night of Power or Laylat Al-Qadr tonight;

Here, Sunlight offers Rumi's Ghazal (Ode) 258, in two forms -- a poetic translation from Nader Khalili, and a version by Coleman Barks:

1)
if you stay awake
for an entire night
watch out for a treasure
trying to arrive

you can keep warm
by the secret sun of the night
keeping your eyes open
for the softness of dawn

try it for tonight
challenge your sleepy eyes
do not lay your head down
wait for heavenly alms

night is the bringer of gifts
Moses went on a ten-year journey
during a single night
invited by a tree
to watch the fire and light

Mohammed too made his passage
during that holy night
when he heard the glorious voice
when he ascended to the sky

day is to make a living
night is only for love
commoners sleep fast
lovers whisper to God all night

all night long
a voice calls upon you
to wake up
in the precious hours

if you miss your chance now
when your body is left behind
your soul will lament
death is a life of no return

-- Translation by Nader Khalili: "Rumi, Fountain of Fire" Cal-Earth Press, 1994
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

2)
THE VIGIL
Don't go to sleep one night.
What you most want will come to you then.
Warmed by a sun inside, you'll see wonders.
Tonight, don't put your head down.

Be tough, and strength will come.
That which adoration adores
appears at night. Those asleep
may miss it. One night Moses stayed awake
and asked, and saw a light in a tree.

Then he walked at night for ten years,
until finally he saw the whole tree
illuminated. Muhammad rode his horse
through the night sky. The day is for work.
The night for love. Don't let someone
bewitch you. Some people sleep at night.

But not lovers. They sit in the dark
and talk to God, who told David,
"Those who sleep all night every night
and claim to be connected to us, they lie."

Lovers can't sleep when they feel the privacy
of the beloved all around them. Someone
who's thirsty may sleep for a little while,
but he or she will dream of water, a full jar
beside a creek, or the spiritual water you get
from another person. All night, listen
to the conversation. Stay up.
This moment is all there is.

Death will take it away soon enough.
You'll be gone, and this earth will be left
without a sweetheart, nothing but weeds
growing inside thorns.

I'm through. Read the rest of this poem
in the dark tonight.Do I have a head? And feet?

Shams, so loved by Tabrizians, I close my lips.
I wait for you to come and open them.

-- Version by Coleman Barks: "The Essential Rumi" Harper, San Francisco, 1995.

*****
D o n ’ t S l e e p

O seeker,
Listen to your heart’s true yearning—
Don’t sleep!

Give up one night of your life to the vigil—
Don’t sleep!

You have spent a thousand nights
in the cradle of sleep—
I ask for one night.
For the sake of the Friend,
Don’t sleep!

The Loving Witness never sleeps by night,
Follow His ways:
Give yourself to Him—
Don’t sleep!

Beware of that woeful night,
When you cry out in agony: “O God”—
Don’t sleep!

That night when Death comes to welcome you—
By the dread of that night, O weary one,
Don’t sleep!

Even stones will cry when bound
by the weight of those chains.
You are not a stone.
Remember those chains—
Don’t sleep!

Though the night tempts you like a beautiful maiden,
do not drink from her cup.
Fear the morning after—
Don’t sleep!

God says, “My dear ones will stay up with me at night.”
If you hear these words,
Don’t sleep!

Fear that horrible night
when no refuge can be found.
Store up your provisions tonight! Beware!
Don’t sleep!

The Saints find their treasure
when the world is asleep;
For the sake of ever-giving love,
Don’t sleep!

When your spirit is old and worn
He will give you a new one,
Then you will become the pure spirit of all.
O hopeful one, don’t sleep!

I have told you again and again—
go to that inner silence!
But still you do not hear me.
Give me one night
And I will give you a thousand in return—
Don’t sleep!

eBook on Rumi: In the Arms of the Beloved

http://www.goodreads.com/ebooks/downloa ... ?doc=19503