Recycling of souls.

[ShamsB]

MSMS once remarked to a murid named Dr. Nathoo that Ismailism will survive if there is only ONE Ismaili. Ismailism is not about numbers, it is about quality.

Of course Ismailism is about Quality,

There is an Anecdote about Imam Sultan Mohd Shah and an Ismaili Amaldaar.

" Once a murid ask Imam that if there will be no Ismailis remain than what will happen, Imam replied it will never happens.


He again ask the same question, and Imam reply was the same, minute later he again ask the same question, this time Imam with very high tone look at the roof and said " If it will happen, I will blow the spirit in this chandelier and make it prostrate infront of me"

A good quality anecdote coined by a missionary to strengthen Iman of jamait.
Heard already.

Actually - this was also something that Imam Muhammad-in-il Baqir said.
This is readily found in Ithna Asheri and Bohora sources as well...
Not about the chandelier - but about how the Imam is always present - and without an Imam for a second, the world would cease to perish.

Shams

[salimkhoja786]

After few decades that 1% will merge with ideology of 99% except few. 99% understand and follow the farman what Imam said," ALI IS FROM ALLAH". Since time of MSMS and present Imam, Shah and Pir is same.

You know what, I will be not shocked if this 1% will decreases to 0.01 % in next 60 years, it means if in 2076 total Ismailis will be 35 million than there would probably only 3500 Ismailis who will believe in Ali Allah.

Again I'm not saying this , Pir said that in his Ginan that " In future there will be only one believer in the radius of 100 miles"

So, You mean these 99% who are believed that Imam is not Allah are true because there is a rule " Majority always wins" .

But in the case of religion there is a inverse rule " Minority Wins". Go through the history, there are 1.6 Billion Muslims in 21st century but there are only 25 Million out of them who believe in Manifest Imam.

In those 25 million Ismailis, there are only few who recognizes Imam as Allah.

In those who recognizes Imam as Allah, there are only few who manage to get near his Noor.

Those who manage to get near Imam's Noor, there are very few in them who attain "Assal Ma Waasil"

Lastly, if you are thinking why Hazir Imam is not claiming to be Allah while previous Imam claim it in there farmans than you are wrong, because Hazir Imam already indirectly declared himself as Allah in his Baitul Khayal Farman, go and read those Baitul Khayal farman, you will get your answer. I know the quote in that Farman, but I'm not gonna put it here because now I'm get tired off from this Ali Allah V/S Ali Wali e Allah.

Krishna declared openly he was Bhagwan.
Rama declared openly he was Bhagwan.
Why not Imam is declaring openly that he is (Bhagwan) God.
But in British court he gave affidavit, that he never claimed divinity. Well I trust what my Imam said.
Well known BK Farman, which is twisted on this forum; THROUTH NOOR OF ALI, THROUGH NOOR OF IMAMAT YOU SEEK COME CLOSER TO HE WHO IS ABOVE ALL ELSE. Above all else is obviously is ALLAH.

[salimkhoja786]

Of course Ismailism is about Quality,

There is an Anecdote about Imam Sultan Mohd Shah and an Ismaili Amaldaar.

" Once a murid ask Imam that if there will be no Ismailis remain than what will happen, Imam replied it will never happens.


He again ask the same question, and Imam reply was the same, minute later he again ask the same question, this time Imam with very high tone look at the roof and said " If it will happen, I will blow the spirit in this chandelier and make it prostrate infront of me"

A good quality anecdote coined by a missionary to strengthen Iman of jamait.
Heard already.

Actually - this was also something that Imam Muhammad-in-il Baqir said.
This is readily found in Ithna Asheri and Bohora sources as well...
Not about the chandelier - but about how the Imam is always present - and without an Imam for a second, the world would cease to perish.

Shams

Please mention the name of books or sources, thanks.
Yes I believe Imam is always present.

[salimkhoja786]

After few decades that 1% will merge with ideology of 99% except few. 99% understand and follow the farman what Imam said," ALI IS FROM ALLAH". Since time of MSMS and present Imam, Shah and Pir is same.

You know what, I will be not shocked if this 1% will decreases to 0.01 % in next 60 years, it means if in 2076 total Ismailis will be 35 million than there would probably only 3500 Ismailis who will believe in Ali Allah.

Again I'm not saying this , Pir said that in his Ginan that " In future there will be only one believer in the radius of 100 miles"

So, You mean these 99% who are believed that Imam is not Allah are true because there is a rule " Majority always wins" .

But in the case of religion there is a inverse rule " Minority Wins". Go through the history, there are 1.6 Billion Muslims in 21st century but there are only 25 Million out of them who believe in Manifest Imam.

In those 25 million Ismailis, there are only few who recognizes Imam as Allah.

In those who recognizes Imam as Allah, there are only few who manage to get near his Noor.

Those who manage to get near Imam's Noor, there are very few in them who attain "Assal Ma Waasil"

Lastly, if you are thinking why Hazir Imam is not claiming to be Allah while previous Imam claim it in there farmans than you are wrong, because Hazir Imam already indirectly declared himself as Allah in his Baitul Khayal Farman, go and read those Baitul Khayal farman, you will get your answer. I know the quote in that Farman, but I'm not gonna put it here because now I'm get tired off from this Ali Allah V/S Ali Wali e Allah.

I believe there is a farman - ironically made in Pakistan - someone may have the actual date - 1967 or 1964 - it's a pretty well known farman - Hazar Imam asks for the meaning of Malik-e-Naas - and goes onto ask who it refers to....that should answer everyone's queries; however I am going to venture a guess and say this too may not suffice....

I also believe that recent farman books being published by ITREB Pakistan are editing out this portion of the Farman - understandably so.

Shams

You used the words 'recent farman books', Now a days ITREB's have no authority to publish farmans in book form.

[salimkhoja786]

You are king of twisting the statements;
Please read your post of March 21,2016, you wrote," The word X is synonym
of word Y. This has the same meaning as word X as word Y". When synonym apply to words, why you mentioned letters in first place, now you are talking of conjunction in between them!.

Word X is not the same as X. Word X is a word and X is a letter. One can say word X if one wants to consider a generic word as opposed to a specific word. You can use letters in this way. You can say a person X to mean a person for whom you do not want to mention the name of the person for privacy reasons.

I explained Essence with example of fragrance and not with flower it self. My point is if some one feel fragrance it is coming from some source. Same way when we talk of Mazhar there is source rather higher source to which Mazhar belongs..

In your post dated Posted: 22 Mar 2016 06:31 am you said "I gave you example of flower say ROSE, fragrance of Rose is because of flower and not itself. For example there is no God there will be no Mazhar. Mazhar is because of Allah."

Tell me, aren't you contradicting yourself?

MSMS has given example; Momins are like streams of water, these merge with river and river take these streams to merge with ocean. Therefore river is ZARIYA, WASILA for which in Du'a Imam has used the word BI HAQQI, and for which Quran has said," INNA LILAHI WA INNA ILAIHI RAAJI'UN"
Regarding the farman," He who is above all else", Obviously Imam is referring to Allah. You are deliberately dropping the word 'THROUGH' NOOR OF IMAM, 'THROUGH' NOOR OF ALI". Again THROUGH here means ZARIYA, WASILA, AND WASITA.

The Imam is both the Shah and the Pir. In the role of Shah he is the destination and the object of worship. In the role of the Pir he is the zariya, wasila and wasita. Through the Pir (Noor) you attain the Imam (He who is above all else).

The tafsir of INNA LILAHI WA INNA ILAIHI RAAJI'UN is

"In the same way, we (Imams) are a Divine Ocean. The final and ultimate destination of your soul is in this ocean, that is, it is in Us." (Kach Nagalpur, Nov 28, 1903)

I stand by my explaination. NO ROSE NO FRAGRANCE; NO ALLAH NO MAZHAR. Essence is because of Wujud.
In ginan Pir has said; HUM TUM DONO SAIYAA(N) EEK HAI(N).
When all streams (momins) merge with ocean ie Allah then,
NA KOI BANDA RAHA NA BANDA NAWAZ.

[Admin]

But in British court he gave affidavit, that he never claimed divinity.

Please tell us where is the Affidavit? The only one we read was the one in his own handwritting saying that the belief in Das Avatar (the Krishna who cliamed divinity) was part f our faith. Do you have another affidavit? If yes give us the link.

[salimkhoja786]

But in British court he gave affidavit, that he never claimed divinity.

Please tell us where is the Affidavit? The only one we read was the one in his own handwritting saying that the belief in Das Avatar (the Krishna who cliamed divinity) was part f our faith. Do you have another affidavit? If yes give us the link.

The affidavit was submitted in British court, you can contact Registrar of honorable court or their documentation department.

[Admin]

Please do not invent. I have a copy of the affidavit, it was also published by late Missionary Bandali Haji in Nooran Allah Noor and it does not say what you pretend.

DO not send us to the British Archive in a hunt for non existing documents which you have created in your imagination. You have done that in the past. Does not work anymore.

[kmaherali]

I stand by my explaination. NO ROSE NO FRAGRANCE; NO ALLAH NO MAZHAR. Essence is because of Wujud.
In ginan Pir has said; HUM TUM DONO SAIYAA(N) EEK HAI(N).
When all streams (momins) merge with ocean ie Allah then,
NA KOI BANDA RAHA NA BANDA NAWAZ.

So you are comparing rose to Essence and fragrance to Mazhar. That is not correct in my opinion. Fragrance is only one aspect of the rose, whereas Mazhar reflects all qualities of the Essemce such as All-powerful, All-wise etc.

[kmaherali]

Krishna declared openly he was Bhagwan.
Rama declared openly he was Bhagwan.
Why not Imam is declaring openly that he is (Bhagwan) God.
But in British court he gave affidavit, that he never claimed divinity. Well I trust what my Imam said..

Different Avatars have different roles to play in their contexts. Lord Krishna had a wider role in society and hence he declared his real nature to the world. The recent Imams don't consider their role in this manner. In fact as per Memoirs the Imam is only an ordinary human being for mankind.

Well known BK Farman, which is twisted on this forum; THROUTH NOOR OF ALI, THROUGH NOOR OF IMAMAT YOU SEEK COME CLOSER TO HE WHO IS ABOVE ALL ELSE. Above all else is obviously is ALLAH.

You have been explained that the Imam has two roles - the Shah and the Pir. The Imam cannot guide you to a destination that he does not know about. He is in fact that destination!

The batini concepts have batini expressions. The articulation and expression of Imamat will change but the essential nature will not change. As per MSMS, he is the oceam to which we returm.

[ismaili103]

Well known BK Farman, which is twisted on this forum; THROUTH NOOR OF ALI, THROUGH NOOR OF IMAMAT YOU SEEK COME CLOSER TO HE WHO IS ABOVE ALL ELSE. Above all else is obviously is ALLAH.

I had Already listen above Farman many time in baitul khayal majlis. I'm not talking about this farman.

There's another farman, most recently I listen that farman is about 2 months ago in baitul khayal majilis.

As I said I'll not gonna quote that farman, because I don't want to waste my time.

[Admin]

Quoting BK or any Mijlas Farmans are not allowed on this Forum. Anyone posting this kind of Farmans will have his account deleted.

[tret]

Quoting BK or any Mijlas Farmans are not allowed on this Forum. Anyone posting this kind of Farmans will have his account deleted.

Why?

According to kmaherali, this is supposed to be a batini forum.

[Admin]

Even it is was only a batini Forum which is not correct [it is both] , does it mean you can start posting private and confidential Farmans all over the place?

Obviously not. And therefore there is a policy here which will not let anyone post ANY Mijlas Farmans or even discuss these Mijlases.

[salimkhoja786]

Well known BK Farman, which is twisted on this forum; THROUTH NOOR OF ALI, THROUGH NOOR OF IMAMAT YOU SEEK COME CLOSER TO HE WHO IS ABOVE ALL ELSE. Above all else is obviously is ALLAH.

I had Already listen above Farman many time in baitul khayal majlis. I'm not talking about this farman.

There's another farman, most recently I listen that farman is about 2 months ago in baitul khayal majilis.

As I said I'll not gonna quote that farman, because I don't want to waste my time.

You already wasted your time. Think about the farman I quoted, it is clear as crystal," through Noor of Ali, through Noor of Imamat you seek come close to He who is above all else".

[salimkhoja786]

Please do not invent. I have a copy of the affidavit, it was also published by late Missionary Bandali Haji in Nooran Allah Noor and it does not say what you pretend.

DO not send us to the British Archive in a hunt for non existing documents which you have created in your imagination. You have done that in the past. Does not work anymore.

Rise and shine.
I am talking about present Imam Shah Karim and not about MSMS. I have read Noorun ala Noor. I am talking about Hazar Imam and Begum Salima's divorce case.

[salimkhoja786]

I stand by my explaination. NO ROSE NO FRAGRANCE; NO ALLAH NO MAZHAR. Essence is because of Wujud.
In ginan Pir has said; HUM TUM DONO SAIYAA(N) EEK HAI(N).
When all streams (momins) merge with ocean ie Allah then,
NA KOI BANDA RAHA NA BANDA NAWAZ.

So you are comparing rose to Essence and fragrance to Mazhar. That is not correct in my opinion. Fragrance is only one aspect of the rose, whereas Mazhar reflects all qualities of the Essemce such as All-powerful, All-wise etc.

My first paragraph is deleted by Admin, well friends help friends.
You are not only king of twisting the facts but a new quality Jumping Jack.
I wrote; no rose no fragrance, no Allah no Mazhar. As usual you twisted my statement. You wrote," So you are comparing rose to Essence and fragrance to Mazhar". Please read carefully my explaination.

[Admin]

I am talking about Hazar Imam and Begum Salima's divorce case.

Do you have a document to produce? if not, stop playing games.

Divorce matters are personal matters which we do not want to get involved into. Everyone knows assets of the Imamate of Noor Mowlana Shah Karim are different from assets of Shah Karim personnaly.

[ismaili103]

You already wasted your time. Think about the farman I quoted, it is clear as crystal," through Noor of Ali, through Noor of Imamat you seek come close to He who is above all else".

I know right, I wasted my time by banging my head on the wall.

Mowlana Hazir Imam is above all else and this truth will never change, even after the end of the all the universes.

[salimkhoja786]

You already wasted your time. Think about the farman I quoted, it is clear as crystal," through Noor of Ali, through Noor of Imamat you seek come close to He who is above all else".

I know right, I wasted my time by banging my head on the wall.

Mowlana Hazir Imam is above all else and this truth will never change, even after the end of the all the universes.

Imam did not used the word 'ME' but he used the words 'HE WHO IS ABOVE ALL ELSE" and HE IS ALLAH.

[salimkhoja786]

I am talking about Hazar Imam and Begum Salima's divorce case.

Do you have a document to produce? if not, stop playing games.

Divorce matters are personal matters which we do not want to get involved into. Everyone knows assets of the Imamate of Noor Mowlana Shah Karim are different from assets of Shah Karim personnaly.

You are the owner, administrator, moderator of this site. You should be aware of
the crucial postings on this forum. You can find this statement of Imam on this forum posted quite few times, that," NEITHER ME NOR MY GRAND FATHER CLAIMED DIVINITY" in British court. I am not talking of assets of Imam.

[Admin]

You are the owner, administrator, moderator of this site. You should be aware of
the crucial postings on this forum. You can find this statement of Imam on this forum posted quite few times, that," NEITHER ME NOR MY GRAND FATHER CLAIMED DIVINITY" in British court. I am not talking of assets of Imam.

So if this is posted so many times as you said, what stops you in giving the whole text or the whole context?

Now, you are the one who suggested that this is what the Imam put in his affidavit in Begum Salimah's divorce case. Are you now saying it was not in the affidavit presented during that case but it was from somewhere else. Isn't this a repeat of what you have been doing previousy?

[kmaherali]

Imam did not used the word 'ME' but he used the words 'HE WHO IS ABOVE ALL ELSE" and HE IS ALLAH.

What about MSMS's Farman that the Imams are the ocean to where you return to?

Do you think when the Imamat changed from MSMS to Shah Karim, the ocean became a drop?

[kmaherali]

Why?

According to kmaherali, this is supposed to be a batini forum.

There are levels of batin. At the first level, it pertains to Jamat as a whole and then there are various levels depending on which mandli a murid belongs. Hence all murids who visit this forum may not be entitled to Farmans made in mandlis.

[salimkhoja786]

Imam did not used the word 'ME' but he used the words 'HE WHO IS ABOVE ALL ELSE" and HE IS ALLAH.

What about MSMS's Farman that the Imams are the ocean to where you return to?

Do you think when the Imamat changed from MSMS to Shah Karim, the ocean became a drop?

I live in 21st century, my present Imam is Shah Karim Al Hussani and I follow his farmans. The farman I quoted is clear and in simple English and words speak for themselves. There is no room for twisting this crucial farman.
THROUGH NOOR OF ALI, THROUGH NOOR OF IMAMAT YOU SEEK COME CLOSE TO HE WHO IS ABOVE ALL ELSE. Pay attention to word 'THROUGH' AND THE PHRASE 'HE WHO IS ABOVE ALL ELSE'. Imam is talking about OCEAN of oceans.

[ismaili103]

I live in 21st century, my present Imam is Shah Karim Al Hussani and I follow his farmans. The farman I quoted is clear and in simple English and words speak for themselves. There is no room for twisting this crucial farman.
THROUGH NOOR OF ALI, THROUGH NOOR OF IMAMAT YOU SEEK COME CLOSE TO HE WHO IS ABOVE ALL ELSE. Pay attention to word 'THROUGH' AND THE PHRASE 'HE WHO IS ABOVE ALL ELSE'. Imam is talking about OCEAN of oceans.

Another Ithnashari believe, according yo them every Imam is another Imam, to them there is no concept Noor and we can cleary see that in you.

So what do you think, Imam Shah hassan ali, Imam aga Ali Shah and Imam Sultan mohd Shah who cleary declared them self Allah in there many Farmans are possesor of different Noor than Hazir Imam.

There is another Baitul Khayal Farman, in which Hazir Imam indirectly said Imam is Allah. The above Farman you wrote is right and I listen that Framan many times but there is another Farman just search it.

Well I'm not shocked why Imam is not declaring to be Allah in his Farmans, because Pir had aware us about this nature of Imam , which is " Imams actions and Farmans are always related the faith of Murid"

Did anyone noticed one thing in golden jubilee deedars and darbars movies

whenever Imam meets members of jamati institutions, Imam use to give them speeches, what I've noticed in almost every movie is that when any member of Jamat come for speech and if he use word Khudawand for Imam, Then Imam give speeches without any paper, glasses etc but when any jamati member use word Hazir Imam in there speech, Imam use glasses and paper for his speech.

If anyone didn't noticed that, just go through those movies.

[salimkhoja786]

TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
Not long ago! I, posted at least dozen of Farmans of our 46,47 & 48th imams in those farmans all three imams respectively declared H. Ali (s.a.) as Allah I mean Ali is Allah you can still find those farmans in my previous posts but... I still remember that Mazhar and Mr. tret (both are from central Asia) didn't accepted those farmans as a proof: only proof these two dudes accepting is a "Paris Conference" so, don't waste your time in answering their posts ( I stopped to answer them long time ago) they are getting money to spreading this kind weird questions to brain wash Ismaili young generation, but they have miserably failed in their aims, they still can not do any harm to the readers of Ismaili.net. that is Imam's blessing.period

Answer to whom it may concern.

CHHAMAK CHHALO is mentally retarted, but he is good at blaming others. No courage to compete. Your cousin keep deleting my posts in TEREY PIYAR MEY.
Admin you keep deleting and I shall keep kicking.
LOOKING FOR FAIR DEALINGS.

[salimkhoja786]

I live in 21st century, my present Imam is Shah Karim Al Hussani and I follow his farmans. The farman I quoted is clear and in simple English and words speak for themselves. There is no room for twisting this crucial farman.
THROUGH NOOR OF ALI, THROUGH NOOR OF IMAMAT YOU SEEK COME CLOSE TO HE WHO IS ABOVE ALL ELSE. Pay attention to word 'THROUGH' AND THE PHRASE 'HE WHO IS ABOVE ALL ELSE'. Imam is talking about OCEAN of oceans.

Another Ithnashari believe, according yo them every Imam is another Imam, to them there is no concept Noor and we can cleary see that in you.

So what do you think, Imam Shah hassan ali, Imam aga Ali Shah and Imam Sultan mohd Shah who cleary declared them self Allah in there many Farmans are possesor of different Noor than Hazir Imam.

There is another Baitul Khayal Farman, in which Hazir Imam indirectly said Imam is Allah. The above Farman you wrote is right and I listen that Framan many times but there is another Farman just search it.

Well I'm not shocked why Imam is not declaring to be Allah in his Farmans, because Pir had aware us about this nature of Imam , which is " Imams actions and Farmans are always related the faith of Murid"

Did anyone noticed one thing in golden jubilee deedars and darbars movies

whenever Imam meets members of jamati institutions, Imam use to give them speeches, what I've noticed in almost every movie is that when any member of Jamat come for speech and if he use word Khudawand for Imam, Then Imam give speeches without any paper, glasses etc but when any jamati member use word Hazir Imam in there speech, Imam use glasses and paper for his speech.

If anyone didn't noticed that, just go through those movies.

Is there any other wall in your apartment so that you bang bang your head there again. If you accept the farman which I quoted then;
WHY THIS KOLAVERI KOLAVERI KOLAVERI DI.

[ShamsB]

I live in 21st century, my present Imam is Shah Karim Al Hussani and I follow his farmans. The farman I quoted is clear and in simple English and words speak for themselves. There is no room for twisting this crucial farman.
THROUGH NOOR OF ALI, THROUGH NOOR OF IMAMAT YOU SEEK COME CLOSE TO HE WHO IS ABOVE ALL ELSE. Pay attention to word 'THROUGH' AND THE PHRASE 'HE WHO IS ABOVE ALL ELSE'. Imam is talking about OCEAN of oceans.

Another Ithnashari believe, according yo them every Imam is another Imam, to them there is no concept Noor and we can cleary see that in you.

So what do you think, Imam Shah hassan ali, Imam aga Ali Shah and Imam Sultan mohd Shah who cleary declared them self Allah in there many Farmans are possesor of different Noor than Hazir Imam.

There is another Baitul Khayal Farman, in which Hazir Imam indirectly said Imam is Allah. The above Farman you wrote is right and I listen that Framan many times but there is another Farman just search it.

Well I'm not shocked why Imam is not declaring to be Allah in his Farmans, because Pir had aware us about this nature of Imam , which is " Imams actions and Farmans are always related the faith of Murid"

Did anyone noticed one thing in golden jubilee deedars and darbars movies

whenever Imam meets members of jamati institutions, Imam use to give them speeches, what I've noticed in almost every movie is that when any member of Jamat come for speech and if he use word Khudawand for Imam, Then Imam give speeches without any paper, glasses etc but when any jamati member use word Hazir Imam in there speech, Imam use glasses and paper for his speech.

If anyone didn't noticed that, just go through those movies.

Is there any other wall in your apartment so that you bang bang your head there again. If you accept the farman which I quoted then;
WHY THIS KOLAVERI KOLAVERI KOLAVERI DI.

And we've quoted other Farmans by Hazar Imam - that you ignore - so why this soapbox?

having a crisis of faith? and seeking validation by bashing up other people's faith?

You have your beliefs - we have ours.

This isn't an institutionally mandated site - it is run and maintained by volunteers - if you don't like it - feel free to go somewhere else and create your own.

just like you have issues with what people are saying about Hazar Imam or Ali being Allah etc...
we have issues with you issuing your Sunni Fatwas - you don't represent all the ismailies or ismaili theology the same was as we don't.
You speak of building a bridge with the Ummah - which Ummah? the Muslim Ummah - do we understand enough of our faith? we don't.
Your posts reek of Sunnistic thoughts when we are clearly Shia -
First understand Shia doctine and theology (Kmaherali can help you there)
Then focus on what Hazar Imam insists upon - that we are a SUFI tariqah - we are ESOTERIC - we focus on the BATIN - nothing else matters..and if we focus on the BATIN than the physical body of the IMAM is just an illusion - it is a means for the LIGHT TO MANIFEST
Hazar Imam has clearly stated that the Imam is the MAZHAR of ALLAH - Mazhar - meaning Manifestation - now how you interpret that - is very different than how a lot of us interpret that....
And btw - we are a TARIQAH - not a SHARIAH - Imam Sultan Mohammad Shah has clearly stated the difference in the USUL-E-DIN Farman...

So going back to the point about the BATIN - if the Physical really doesn't matter - than all that matters is the BATIN and in the BATIN - the LIGHT is the LIGHT...

If you can't get beyond the physical - that is your problem.

FYI - seek out the Farman I referred to - where Hazar Imam asks about Malik-i-nass - it was made in Pakistan in 1964 or 1967.
Though examining your narrowmindedness - and your insecurity about your own identity - i don't think you will grasp it....

Once again - you have your interpretation of the Murid Murshid relationship and that is right
and I have mine, as does Kmaherali have his and Admin has his - and it okay for each one of us to have a different understanding of that relationship...
and allowing each one to have that relationship is pluralism - because all of those interpretations are correct...

Using Nusayri's example with Hazrat Ali - the Truth is the Truth and nothing can change that....

So - stop being Taliban and ISIS and issuing your fatwas.
Live and let live.

Admin - maybe it is time to start banning Mazhar/SalimKhoja/Sameer - whatever else he calls himself/herself - zznoor...??

[ShamsB]

I live in 21st century, my present Imam is Shah Karim Al Hussani and I follow his farmans. The farman I quoted is clear and in simple English and words speak for themselves. There is no room for twisting this crucial farman.
THROUGH NOOR OF ALI, THROUGH NOOR OF IMAMAT YOU SEEK COME CLOSE TO HE WHO IS ABOVE ALL ELSE. Pay attention to word 'THROUGH' AND THE PHRASE 'HE WHO IS ABOVE ALL ELSE'. Imam is talking about OCEAN of oceans.

Another Ithnashari believe, according yo them every Imam is another Imam, to them there is no concept Noor and we can cleary see that in you.

So what do you think, Imam Shah hassan ali, Imam aga Ali Shah and Imam Sultan mohd Shah who cleary declared them self Allah in there many Farmans are possesor of different Noor than Hazir Imam.

There is another Baitul Khayal Farman, in which Hazir Imam indirectly said Imam is Allah. The above Farman you wrote is right and I listen that Framan many times but there is another Farman just search it.

Well I'm not shocked why Imam is not declaring to be Allah in his Farmans, because Pir had aware us about this nature of Imam , which is " Imams actions and Farmans are always related the faith of Murid"

Did anyone noticed one thing in golden jubilee deedars and darbars movies

whenever Imam meets members of jamati institutions, Imam use to give them speeches, what I've noticed in almost every movie is that when any member of Jamat come for speech and if he use word Khudawand for Imam, Then Imam give speeches without any paper, glasses etc but when any jamati member use word Hazir Imam in there speech, Imam use glasses and paper for his speech.

If anyone didn't noticed that, just go through those movies.

Is there any other wall in your apartment so that you bang bang your head there again. If you accept the farman which I quoted then;
WHY THIS KOLAVERI KOLAVERI KOLAVERI DI.

Admin - this is now becoming ridiculous. There is a concerted effort to keep shoving this whole notion of sunni ismailism down our throats - and i have noticed that this goes in circles - the individuals who have this narrow interpretation which is unyielding and salafist doesn't allow for any other - and upon being banned - keep coming back with the same futile garbage arguments. No matter how much proof or farmans or ayats or anything that is share - there doesn't seem to be a willingness to be openminded or have an attitude of learning or live and let live...there is a very self righteous attitude in a lot of Mazhar/SameerNoorani?/SalimKhoja - who knows how many more identities - zznoor?
and it seems that these individuals have monopolized the board and are self appointed police of what ismailism is.

I have noticed no real learning happens and those of us that used to post semi regularly are now not willing to post - as it falls on deaf ears.

maybe time to close down some of these threads? or permanently ban some individuals - not being wrong - but for not allowing others rights to beliefs..right or wrong.

Just my two cents.

Shams