Recycling of souls.

[tret]

And yes outdated Quran is for the outdated peoples of C.A who are still living in mud houses..lol

Just so you know kiddo, Ismailis recite from that Qur'an that you and people like you call it outdated, ayats 3 times a day.

[tret]

It is very sad to see, that while MHI tries to build bridges with not only other Islamic branches, but also with non-Islmaic communities to show the real face of Islam, but sadly, some folks here tries to destroy those bridges.

[ismaili103]

And yes outdated Quran is for the outdated peoples of C.A who are still living in mud houses..lol

Just so you know kiddo, Ismailis recite from that Qur'an that you and people like you call it outdated, ayats 3 times a day.

And we did not recite 6666 ayats of Quran a day, we recite only 6 selected ayats and surahs in our dua. As I said its for outdated peoples of C.A then go and read it I don't care.

Why I called you outdated because you peoples are still " LAKEER KE FAKEER" , I am reading your post from past 2 years whenever other members give you answers from Ginans and Farmans you start barking for the answer from Quran and we can't give you answer from Quran because it doesn't have the answer thats why its outdated and only for the peoples of 1400 yrs old mind.

[ismaili103]

It is very sad to see, that while MHI tries to build bridges with not only other Islamic branches, but also with non-Islmaic communities to show the real face of Islam, but sadly, some folks here tries to destroy those bridges.

Sorry to say that what I see in this forum is that people from your area regularly destroying those bridges, for you people Quran is everything ( Jis Kitaab Ke sar ka naa kch pata ha or na hy pair ka ) , for you peoples Farmans and Ginans are nothing.

[Admin]

Build bridges but not at the expense of your faith

[salimkhoja786]

I did not used the term Nuclear War, it came from your side.

KHAAK HO JAOGE TUM, TUM KO KHABAR HONEEY TAK.

Yeah I use the term, because I know that Imam can do anything, and by the term anything I mean Imam(Hazir Imam) can do anything which your Allah can't even think.

It is my ALLAH whose name you recite in Dua many times. You start with BISMILLAH AND NOT WITH BISM E ALI.

[Admin]

There is a thread for discussing Ali-Allah. This thread is only for discussing recycling of the soul, whatever it means...

[ismaili103]

It is my ALLAH whose name you recite in Dua many times. You start with BISMILLAH AND NOT WITH BISM E ALI.

And that Allah in dua means Hazir Imam, because Imam is indeed Allah. I can only give you this statement beacuse of yout intellect but I know, Imam is more than that word (Allah ), as Pir said in Ginan Imam is ha no name, he is beyond those names and attributes.

I remembered those powerful words of late Abu ali in his waez.

" agar tumhare dil ma hazir Imam k ilawa koi aur Allah ha to use bhar nikal kr phenk do "

Such a great man he was.

[tret]

MHI tries to build bridges

Build bridges but not at the expense of your faith

If you don't have faith in MHI, then what faith are you talking about?
I am no one to question anyone's faith, but you are confronting Imam here.

Re-read what I said, and re-read what you responded.

[tret]

salimkhoja786 brother - I'd suggest ignore these lunatics. They have no idea what they are talking about. As I said, they are destroying the bridges that MHI is trying to build with other communities.

[ismaili103]

salimkhoja786 brother - I'd suggest ignore these lunatics. They have no idea what they are talking about. As I said, they are destroying the bridges that MHI is trying to build with other communities.

There are many lunatics in this forum, some are saying Ali is Allah and give the references from Ginans and Farmans, but than there are some C.A lunatics who are actually hypocrites and they are only pretending to be Ismailis, they are barking Ali is not Allah from past 3 years but can't even able to get references from Farmans and Ginans. So Mr . Tret please shit on your peoples, not on us. Thankyou.

And BTW people from your area are destroying those bridges from past 3 years in this forum, you people didn't know anything about Ismailism outside C.A traditions, you don't know how to recite Ginans and Manqhabat which are part of Ismailism and you are barking about creating bridges. Pehle apne girebaan ma jhanko.

And BTW tret, one year ago you said that I will never come back in this forum, but look at you, it shows that you people can't even stand on your own words, it shows you people are respect less peoples, one guy from your area creating dozens of fake ids only to degrade Ismailis, Pirs ,Imams and there Framans and Ginans , it shows you peoples have no self respect.

[salimkhoja786]

There is a thread for discussing Ali-Allah. This thread is only for discussing recycling of the soul, whatever it means...

This was answer to post of Karim Jivani, nick name 103.

[salimkhoja786]

It is my ALLAH whose name you recite in Dua many times. You start with BISMILLAH AND NOT WITH BISM E ALI.

And that Allah in dua means Hazir Imam, because Imam is indeed Allah. I can only give you this statement beacuse of yout intellect but I know, Imam is more than that word (Allah ), as Pir said in Ginan Imam is ha no name, he is beyond those names and attributes.

I remembered those powerful words of late Abu ali in his waez.

" agar tumhare dil ma hazir Imam k ilawa koi aur Allah ha to use bhar nikal kr phenk do "

Such a great man he was.

Same rhetoric, you even do not KNOW the proper meaning of Du'a. The word 'BI HAQQI' is used 5 times in Du'a,means ZARIYEY SE, WASTEY ME , TUFAIL, SADQEY ME.
ALLAHUMA BIHAQQI MUHAMADDINIL MUSTAFA WA ALA ALIYINIL MURTADHA WA ALALA'IMATIL ATHAAR.... Read and understand properly 1,4 and last part of Du'a. If not seek help from missionary.
Late missionary Abu Ali was caught coining many stories. His many waizes created misunderstandings. MSMS BANNED HIM FROM WAIZES IN EARLY 50'S.

[salimkhoja786]

salimkhoja786 brother - I'd suggest ignore these lunatics. They have no idea what they are talking about. As I said, they are destroying the bridges that MHI is trying to build with other communities.

There are many lunatics in this forum, some are saying Ali is Allah and give the references from Ginans and Farmans, but than there are some C.A lunatics who are actually hypocrites and they are only pretending to be Ismailis, they are barking Ali is not Allah from past 3 years but can't even able to get references from Farmans and Ginans. So Mr . Tret please shit on your peoples, not on us. Thankyou.

And BTW people from your area are destroying those bridges from past 3 years in this forum, you people didn't know anything about Ismailism outside C.A traditions, you don't know how to recite Ginans and Manqhabat which are part of Ismailism and you are barking about creating bridges. Pehle apne girebaan ma jhanko.

And BTW tret, one year ago you said that I will never come back in this forum, but look at you, it shows that you people can't even stand on your own words, it shows you people are respect less peoples, one guy from your area creating dozens of fake ids only to degrade Ismailis, Pirs ,Imams and there Framans and Ginans , it shows you peoples have no self respect.

Bahut ho gaya, abb bambu se nichey utro ouur apney tambu mey baeth kar shiv shambhu ka naam lo. Ram ji balli karega. Shanti shanti shanti.

[salimkhoja786]

tran Kutra

Imam Aga Alishah said it in his farman, if you can't digest the farman, go and find any bengali baba as your religous leader.

And yes outdated Quran is for the outdated peoples of C.A who are still living in mud houses..lol

Admin,
Shame on you.
Once again you deleted my answer to above post of 103. Apney bacchey ko kabtuk protection do gey. Let this idiot know because of him and his like minded there are insults and garbage on U Tube for Imam and his family. Brave hearts first answer these people, dancing on Heritage is easy. On U Tube they are challenging Ismailis.

[salimkhoja786]

It is my ALLAH whose name you recite in Dua many times. You start with BISMILLAH AND NOT WITH BISM E ALI.

And that Allah in dua means Hazir Imam, because Imam is indeed Allah. I can only give you this statement beacuse of yout intellect but I know, Imam is more than that word (Allah ), as Pir said in Ginan Imam is ha no name, he is beyond those names and attributes.


It is your opinion and not of 99% Ismailis of subcontinent as you have admitted.

[ismaili103]

Bahut ho gaya, abb bambu se nichey utro ouur apney tambu mey baeth kar shiv shambhu ka naam lo. Ram ji balli karega. Shanti shanti shanti.

agar internet aj se 700000 saal pehle Imam Shri Ram ke zamane ma hota, or tab ma tum se is forum per baat kr rha hota to zaroor Jai Raam Jee Ki bolta, lekin abhi k liye YAA ALI MADAD.

[ismaili103]

It is your opinion and not of 99% Ismailis of subcontinent as you have admitted.

No its not my opinion, Pir said that in his Ginan, and as an ismaili I follow it. And I am again saying that " sorry for those 99% ismailis , they didn't know the truth like you".

[kmaherali]

It is very sad to see, that while MHI tries to build bridges with not only other Islamic branches, but also with non-Islmaic communities to show the real face of Islam, but sadly, some folks here tries to destroy those bridges.

Building bridges does not mean compromising the truth. We know by the very nature of compilation of the Qur'an that it must have been tampered with unless we also believe that Uthman was endowed with the Divine authority to determine what comprised of the Qur'an.Infact the corrupt nature of the Qur'an reinforces the need of the Living Imam who interprets and determines the real nature of the Qur'an. Hence we study Parts of the Qur'an that are relevant for the understanding of our faith.

Relevant Farmans:

"And within that context of building bridges with other people, remember that your faith is yours. Remember to practise your faith, be regular in the practice of your faith and remember that thinking of Allah is not restricted in time. You may think of your faith when you go to the office, when you come back from the office, when you are in public meetings. Nobody asks you what you are thinking about. You are free to think about your faith any time that you are awake, any time during your lifetime.."(Nairobi, Oct 24, 1986)

"There has been a tendency in some parts of the Third World when the Imam has said yes you may build bridges, not only to build the bridges but to walk across them. This is not what the Imam has said.."(Kisumu, March 17, 1981)

[kmaherali]

Does X has the same meaning as Y? If not how come they become synonym .
But Salim and Karim both have 5 letters, so they are equal according to your deducing theory.

X and Y are alphabetic letters and they have no meaning by themselves. They have only meaning when in conjuction with other letters. I never said X and Y are synonyms. Synonyms apply to word not letters.I never said Salim and Karim are eqaul just because they have 5 letters. You are basically distorting what I said.

I explained Essence with fragrance and not with flower, you are again twisting the statement as you usually do.

You said that fragrance is because of the flower, in the same way mazhar is because of the Essence. So you were comparing flower to the Essence. Go read your own post.

Imam is in human form as other human beings. He eats Biryani, Samosas, Pakoras, drinks Star bucks coffee and juices. The difference is, he is Noor of Allah, and Guide to Sirat e Mustaqeem. He said, through Noor of Ali you will come closer to He who is above all else. He did not used the word 'ME' instead of 'HE'.

You just have to use a bit of intelligence. If he says that he guides you to 'He who is above all else", doesn't it imply that he Himself is "He who is above all else"? How can he guide to a destination if he himself is not there?

Didn't MSMS say in his Farman:

"You are aware that all rivers in the world ultimately merge with the ocean. Once having merged with the ocean it can no longer be called a river. In the same way, we (Imams) are a Divine Ocean. The final and ultimate destination of your soul is in this ocean, that is, it is in Us." (Kach Nagalpur, Nov 28, 1903)

Do you think that the nature of Imamat changes from one Imam to another? The expression and articulation may change but the nature does not change.

[kmaherali]

When MSMS and Hazar Imam are talking about reconciliation and Pluralism then why still provoking statements and postings like 'trun kutra', Quran is out dated, Quran is corrupt, Ismailis are right and others are heading to hell,
calling names and insults are still exist and alive on this forum, is this the kind of hatred service offered on this forum?

Show me where in my post have I indicated what you are mentioning. My post was about Umayyads and Tusi's concept of Imamat. So how did you come up with this garbage?

But Tusi is right according to Ja'fri Madhab, Imam is always Ma'sum, pure in thoughts, intentions and actions.

What do you mean by purity of actions, with respect to the Imam?[/quote]

Admin, you may delete my previous post. It is a duplicate.

[salimkhoja786]

It is your opinion and not of 99% Ismailis of subcontinent as you have admitted.

No its not my opinion, Pir said that in his Ginan, and as an ismaili I follow it. And I am again saying that " sorry for those 99% ismailis , they didn't know the truth like you".

After few decades that 1% will merge with ideology of 99% except few. 99% understand and follow the farman what Imam said," ALI IS FROM ALLAH". Since time of MSMS and present Imam, Shah and Pir is same.

[salimkhoja786]

Does X has the same meaning as Y? If not how come they become synonym .
But Salim and Karim both have 5 letters, so they are equal according to your deducing theory.

X and Y are alphabetic letters and they have no meaning by themselves. They have only meaning when in conjuction with other letters. I never said X and Y are synonyms. Synonyms apply to word not letters.I never said Salim and Karim are eqaul just because they have 5 letters. You are basically distorting what I said.

I explained Essence with fragrance and not with flower, you are again twisting the statement as you usually do.

You said that fragrance is because of the flower, in the same way mazhar is because of the Essence. So you were comparing flower to the Essence. Go read your own post.

Imam is in human form as other human beings. He eats Biryani, Samosas, Pakoras, drinks Star bucks coffee and juices. The difference is, he is Noor of Allah, and Guide to Sirat e Mustaqeem. He said, through Noor of Ali you will come closer to He who is above all else. He did not used the word 'ME' instead of 'HE'.

You just have to use a bit of intelligence. If he says that he guides you to 'He who is above all else", doesn't it imply that he Himself is "He who is above all else"? How can he guide to a destination if he himself is not there?

Didn't MSMS say in his Farman:

"You are aware that all rivers in the world ultimately merge with the ocean. Once having merged with the ocean it can no longer be called a river. In the same way, we (Imams) are a Divine Ocean. The final and ultimate destination of your soul is in this ocean, that is, it is in Us." (Kach Nagalpur, Nov 28, 1903)

Do you think that the nature of Imamat changes from one Imam to another? The expression and articulation may change but the nature does not change.

You are king of twisting the statements;
Please read your post of March 21,2016, you wrote," The word X is synonym
of word Y. This has the same meaning as word X as word Y". When synonym apply to words, why you mentioned letters in first place, now you are talking of conjunction in between them!
I explained Essence with example of fragrance and not with flower it self. My point is if some one feel fragrance it is coming from some source. Same way when we talk of Mazhar there is source rather higher source to which Mazhar belongs.
MSMS has given example; Momins are like streams of water, these merge with river and river take these streams to merge with ocean. Therefore river is ZARIYA, WASILA for which in Du'a Imam has used the word BI HAQQI, and for which Quran has said," INNA LILAHI WA INNA ILAIHI RAAJI'UN"
Regarding the farman," He who is above all else", Obviously Imam is referring to Allah. You are deliberately dropping the word 'THROUGH' NOOR OF IMAM, 'THROUGH' NOOR OF ALI". Again THROUGH here means ZARIYA, WASILA, AND WASITA.

[nuseri]

Ya Ali madad.

Dozen of farmans say our soul become one with Imam himself ( God).
HB came as a noble search and not simple explainations.
It can be many life cycles to accept first word Laa (99.5 of ummah are ignorant) mean NOTHINGNESS.and our beautifully Kalima raises up to Marifa level end with ONENESS.
in simple maths.
Laa= NOTHINGNESS= 0
Aliullah= Tawhid= ONENESS= 1.
So at primary level,there is no zero seen.
At secondary level zero is there.
At advance binary code writing only 0 & 1 is used.
In baatin our beautiful kalima start at 0 ends at 1.
key to BAATIN of books,creation, thru creator blessing on INTELLECT is
1+0 = 1.Then 99% of the world is either blind or blinkered.

[kmaherali]

You are king of twisting the statements;
Please read your post of March 21,2016, you wrote," The word X is synonym
of word Y. This has the same meaning as word X as word Y". When synonym apply to words, why you mentioned letters in first place, now you are talking of conjunction in between them!.

Word X is not the same as X. Word X is a word and X is a letter. One can say word X if one wants to consider a generic word as opposed to a specific word. You can use letters in this way. You can say a person X to mean a person for whom you do not want to mention the name of the person for privacy reasons.

I explained Essence with example of fragrance and not with flower it self. My point is if some one feel fragrance it is coming from some source. Same way when we talk of Mazhar there is source rather higher source to which Mazhar belongs..

In your post dated Posted: 22 Mar 2016 06:31 am you said "I gave you example of flower say ROSE, fragrance of Rose is because of flower and not itself. For example there is no God there will be no Mazhar. Mazhar is because of Allah."

Tell me, aren't you contradicting yourself?

MSMS has given example; Momins are like streams of water, these merge with river and river take these streams to merge with ocean. Therefore river is ZARIYA, WASILA for which in Du'a Imam has used the word BI HAQQI, and for which Quran has said," INNA LILAHI WA INNA ILAIHI RAAJI'UN"
Regarding the farman," He who is above all else", Obviously Imam is referring to Allah. You are deliberately dropping the word 'THROUGH' NOOR OF IMAM, 'THROUGH' NOOR OF ALI". Again THROUGH here means ZARIYA, WASILA, AND WASITA.

The Imam is both the Shah and the Pir. In the role of Shah he is the destination and the object of worship. In the role of the Pir he is the zariya, wasila and wasita. Through the Pir (Noor) you attain the Imam (He who is above all else).

The tafsir of INNA LILAHI WA INNA ILAIHI RAAJI'UN is

"In the same way, we (Imams) are a Divine Ocean. The final and ultimate destination of your soul is in this ocean, that is, it is in Us." (Kach Nagalpur, Nov 28, 1903)

[ismaili103]

After few decades that 1% will merge with ideology of 99% except few. 99% understand and follow the farman what Imam said," ALI IS FROM ALLAH". Since time of MSMS and present Imam, Shah and Pir is same.

You know what, I will be not shocked if this 1% will decreases to 0.01 % in next 60 years, it means if in 2076 total Ismailis will be 35 million than there would probably only 3500 Ismailis who will believe in Ali Allah.

Again I'm not saying this , Pir said that in his Ginan that " In future there will be only one believer in the radius of 100 miles"

So, You mean these 99% who are believed that Imam is not Allah are true because there is a rule " Majority always wins" .

But in the case of religion there is a inverse rule " Minority Wins". Go through the history, there are 1.6 Billion Muslims in 21st century but there are only 25 Million out of them who believe in Manifest Imam.

In those 25 million Ismailis, there are only few who recognizes Imam as Allah.

In those who recognizes Imam as Allah, there are only few who manage to get near his Noor.

Those who manage to get near Imam's Noor, there are very few in them who attain "Assal Ma Waasil"

Lastly, if you are thinking why Hazir Imam is not claiming to be Allah while previous Imam claim it in there farmans than you are wrong, because Hazir Imam already indirectly declared himself as Allah in his Baitul Khayal Farman, go and read those Baitul Khayal farman, you will get your answer. I know the quote in that Farman, but I'm not gonna put it here because now I'm get tired off from this Ali Allah V/S Ali Wali e Allah.

[kmaherali]

You know what, I will be not shocked if this 1% will decreases to 0.01 % in next 60 years, it means if in 2076 total Ismailis will be 35 million than there would probably only 3500 Ismailis who will believe in Ali Allah. .

MSMS once remarked to a murid named Dr. Nathoo that Ismailism will survive if there is only ONE Ismaili. Ismailism is not about numbers, it is about quality.

[ismaili103]

You know what, I will be not shocked if this 1% will decreases to 0.01 % in next 60 years, it means if in 2076 total Ismailis will be 35 million than there would probably only 3500 Ismailis who will believe in Ali Allah. .

MSMS once remarked to a murid named Dr. Nathoo that Ismailism will survive if there is only ONE Ismaili. Ismailism is not about numbers, it is about quality.

Of course Ismailism is about Quality,

There is an Anecdote about Imam Sultan Mohd Shah and an Ismaili Amaldaar.

" Once a murid ask Imam that if there will be no Ismailis remain than what will happen, Imam replied it will never happens.

He again ask the same question, and Imam reply was the same, minute later he again ask the same question, this time Imam with very high tone look at the roof and said " If it will happen, I will blow the spirit in this chandelier and make it prostrate infront of me"

[ShamsB]

After few decades that 1% will merge with ideology of 99% except few. 99% understand and follow the farman what Imam said," ALI IS FROM ALLAH". Since time of MSMS and present Imam, Shah and Pir is same.

You know what, I will be not shocked if this 1% will decreases to 0.01 % in next 60 years, it means if in 2076 total Ismailis will be 35 million than there would probably only 3500 Ismailis who will believe in Ali Allah.

Again I'm not saying this , Pir said that in his Ginan that " In future there will be only one believer in the radius of 100 miles"

So, You mean these 99% who are believed that Imam is not Allah are true because there is a rule " Majority always wins" .

But in the case of religion there is a inverse rule " Minority Wins". Go through the history, there are 1.6 Billion Muslims in 21st century but there are only 25 Million out of them who believe in Manifest Imam.

In those 25 million Ismailis, there are only few who recognizes Imam as Allah.

In those who recognizes Imam as Allah, there are only few who manage to get near his Noor.

Those who manage to get near Imam's Noor, there are very few in them who attain "Assal Ma Waasil"

Lastly, if you are thinking why Hazir Imam is not claiming to be Allah while previous Imam claim it in there farmans than you are wrong, because Hazir Imam already indirectly declared himself as Allah in his Baitul Khayal Farman, go and read those Baitul Khayal farman, you will get your answer. I know the quote in that Farman, but I'm not gonna put it here because now I'm get tired off from this Ali Allah V/S Ali Wali e Allah.

I believe there is a farman - ironically made in Pakistan - someone may have the actual date - 1967 or 1964 - it's a pretty well known farman - Hazar Imam asks for the meaning of Malik-e-Naas - and goes onto ask who it refers to....that should answer everyone's queries; however I am going to venture a guess and say this too may not suffice....

I also believe that recent farman books being published by ITREB Pakistan are editing out this portion of the Farman - understandably so.

Shams

[salimkhoja786]

Ya Ali madad.

Dozen of farmans say our soul become one with Imam himself ( God).
HB came as a noble search and not simple explainations.
It can be many life cycles to accept first word Laa (99.5 of ummah are ignorant) mean NOTHINGNESS.and our beautifully Kalima raises up to Marifa level end with ONENESS.
in simple maths.
Laa= NOTHINGNESS= 0
Aliullah= Tawhid= ONENESS= 1.
So at primary level,there is no zero seen.
At secondary level zero is there.
At advance binary code writing only 0 & 1 is used.
In baatin our beautiful kalima start at 0 ends at 1.
key to BAATIN of books,creation, thru creator blessing on INTELLECT is
1+0 = 1.Then 99% of the world is either blind or blinkered.

OLD MATH; 1+0=1
NEW MATH; 1+0=10