Yam!
This is my first post ever here!
Mostly everyone has heard the miracles of Pir Shams like the one of Bahauddin Zakhria's horns, the bringing down of the sun, bringing the dead sone of king back to life etc. I was just wandering whether this is to be taken literally or there is some interpretation behind it? and if there is than what is it?? hope 2 read the reply soon. 10x
Query!
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star_munir
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Ya Ali Madad,
The miracles performed by Pir Shams are part of history and are in no manner just symbolic. There happened and occured in real sense although modern scholars deny it by saying that the miracle can not be happen as per science . This however shows the lack of Imaan as Science can not answers the mysteries of God.
According to Noorum Mubin.The place where Pir Shams brought the sun down is very near to station. Every once in year there is mela or fair at that place. At that place there is temple of Kaishupuri. In the wall of that temple is picture of miracle of Pir Shams.
The miracles performed by Pir Shams are part of history and are in no manner just symbolic. There happened and occured in real sense although modern scholars deny it by saying that the miracle can not be happen as per science . This however shows the lack of Imaan as Science can not answers the mysteries of God.
According to Noorum Mubin.The place where Pir Shams brought the sun down is very near to station. Every once in year there is mela or fair at that place. At that place there is temple of Kaishupuri. In the wall of that temple is picture of miracle of Pir Shams.
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star_munir
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There are some miracles with symbolical meanings like the one of Mairaj but to term every miracle as esoteric and that it has not literal meanings is a foolishness and lack of faith that Imam or Pir can do whatever they please. Although Hazir Imam uptil now performs and shws miracle when needed but still there is thinking among some scholars that there is not any thing like that of miracle. Once there was waez in Jk in which there was the most sensless thing which I have ever heard. The alwaeza said It is said about Jesus [Hazrat Essa] that He used to make dead people alive. However He can not do that ,He used to make people alive spiritually. Now thats right that He used to make alive spiritually but to deny that He can not make or had not made dead people alive physically is to say all history is false.
Earlier christain scholars used to deny the miracle of Noah's ark and used to said that its a story with symbolical meaning but later scientist got many proof from which they cocluded that its a real even and once a flood destroyed the world.
Earlier christain scholars used to deny the miracle of Noah's ark and used to said that its a story with symbolical meaning but later scientist got many proof from which they cocluded that its a real even and once a flood destroyed the world.
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mehboobmehdi
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Yam!
I didn't say that these miracles didn't happen what i am saying is that just like the quran has a zahir and batin so do the ginans! am i not rite?
So just like the real teachings and essance of the quran lies in its esoteric meaning same goes for the ginan.
So what i am asking is let us give some thought on the esoteric meaning of these miracles. Like i gave some thought and here is what i came up wid:
Pir Shams in order to cross the river makes a boat out of papers now here river represents the world which we have to cross in order to reach the other side like Pir Shams in his garbi states: (garbi 9 bholo bholo)
bhulo bhulo te bhulo bhamarddore lol..............................1
The bumblebee has forgotten!
keeyaa(n) bhule meraa praanneeyaare lol...........................2
O my living one! Why do you forget?
agan jattan taare tan jaageeyaare lol.............................3
Your body is composed of fire and clay!
abhee bhule sohee praannee haarsere lol...........................4
The one who forgets this time is indeed the living one who will lose!
evaa aage to bhav je la(n)gannaare lol............................5
You will have to cross over the ocean of life ahead!
tame kees beedh la(n)gashe, paalleeyaare lol......................6
How will you cross the limits?
aage patann nahee koi beddeeyaare lol.............................7
Ahead there will neither be any ferry nor any boat!
nahee vaj nahee kohe tulhaareeyaare lol...........................8
Neither will there be any oars or rafts!
sat keree baa(n)dho tame paalleeyaare lol.........................9
Build a bridge of truth!
tamane dharam la(n)gaave paareeyaare lol.........................10
Only religion will enable you to cross over!
guru jaameen tamaaraa bhaai ho chalere lol.......................11
The Guide will be your surety and will be with you!
tame is beedh la(n)gasho paareeyaare lol.........................12
In this way you will be able to cross over!
je koi hole hole bhaai taree gayaare lol.........................13
Those who were light weighted, swam across!
budde soheeke jeen seer bhaaree-aare lol.........................14
Sunk will be those whose heads are heavy!
aage nahee koi haatt vaanneeyaare lol............................15
Ahead there will neither be any shop nor any shpkeeper!
nahee vannaj nahee vepaareeyaare lol.............................16
Neither will there be any trade nor any trader!
aage nahee koi bhenn nahee bhaaiyaare lol........................17
Ahead nobody will be your sister nor brother!
tyaa(n) nahee koi baap nahee maaiyaare lol.......................18
There nobody is going to be your father or mother!
bhaai ekaladdaa utth kar jaai(n)gere lol.........................19
Brother you will rise alone and depart!
kuchh dharam leeyo tame saatheeyaare lol.........................20
Take some religion along with you!
ejee geenaan shamsh gur boleeyaare lol...........................21
This 'geenaan' (knowledge and wisdom) has been said by the Guide Shamsh.
kuchh sukareet karo dharam saatheeyaare lol......................22
Perform some good deeds and take along with you your religious obligations.
So the boat represents the religion and the boat out of paper means that our iman is like a thread which can be easily broken therfore we have to be very careful thats y we pray so often 2 GOD to keep our faith strong.
When pir shams is on his way zakhrya satres angrily at the boat which causes it to shake means that evil forces or satan will try to movie you away from ur religion. Than pir shams recites some bol which causes horns to grow on zakhrya's head means that we can conquer the evil forces or satanic froces or our instincts and inner desires (bcz thats what satan really is) throgh ibadat n bandagi. After that Pir Shams safely reaches the other side than zakhrya sends his two sons to ask for forgiveness and so the pir does, here we get the lesson of to forgive and forget is the best path rather than to take revenge.
This is my point od view my interpretation not taken from any waz or any where else this is what i wanted u guys 2 do now ofourse ur intrepretaion will be different as there are many ways of loking at a thing.
Hope 2 hear ur reply soon! also appreaciate some comments on ma interpretaion :) bye n yam 4 now
I didn't say that these miracles didn't happen what i am saying is that just like the quran has a zahir and batin so do the ginans! am i not rite?
So just like the real teachings and essance of the quran lies in its esoteric meaning same goes for the ginan.
So what i am asking is let us give some thought on the esoteric meaning of these miracles. Like i gave some thought and here is what i came up wid:
Pir Shams in order to cross the river makes a boat out of papers now here river represents the world which we have to cross in order to reach the other side like Pir Shams in his garbi states: (garbi 9 bholo bholo)
bhulo bhulo te bhulo bhamarddore lol..............................1
The bumblebee has forgotten!
keeyaa(n) bhule meraa praanneeyaare lol...........................2
O my living one! Why do you forget?
agan jattan taare tan jaageeyaare lol.............................3
Your body is composed of fire and clay!
abhee bhule sohee praannee haarsere lol...........................4
The one who forgets this time is indeed the living one who will lose!
evaa aage to bhav je la(n)gannaare lol............................5
You will have to cross over the ocean of life ahead!
tame kees beedh la(n)gashe, paalleeyaare lol......................6
How will you cross the limits?
aage patann nahee koi beddeeyaare lol.............................7
Ahead there will neither be any ferry nor any boat!
nahee vaj nahee kohe tulhaareeyaare lol...........................8
Neither will there be any oars or rafts!
sat keree baa(n)dho tame paalleeyaare lol.........................9
Build a bridge of truth!
tamane dharam la(n)gaave paareeyaare lol.........................10
Only religion will enable you to cross over!
guru jaameen tamaaraa bhaai ho chalere lol.......................11
The Guide will be your surety and will be with you!
tame is beedh la(n)gasho paareeyaare lol.........................12
In this way you will be able to cross over!
je koi hole hole bhaai taree gayaare lol.........................13
Those who were light weighted, swam across!
budde soheeke jeen seer bhaaree-aare lol.........................14
Sunk will be those whose heads are heavy!
aage nahee koi haatt vaanneeyaare lol............................15
Ahead there will neither be any shop nor any shpkeeper!
nahee vannaj nahee vepaareeyaare lol.............................16
Neither will there be any trade nor any trader!
aage nahee koi bhenn nahee bhaaiyaare lol........................17
Ahead nobody will be your sister nor brother!
tyaa(n) nahee koi baap nahee maaiyaare lol.......................18
There nobody is going to be your father or mother!
bhaai ekaladdaa utth kar jaai(n)gere lol.........................19
Brother you will rise alone and depart!
kuchh dharam leeyo tame saatheeyaare lol.........................20
Take some religion along with you!
ejee geenaan shamsh gur boleeyaare lol...........................21
This 'geenaan' (knowledge and wisdom) has been said by the Guide Shamsh.
kuchh sukareet karo dharam saatheeyaare lol......................22
Perform some good deeds and take along with you your religious obligations.
So the boat represents the religion and the boat out of paper means that our iman is like a thread which can be easily broken therfore we have to be very careful thats y we pray so often 2 GOD to keep our faith strong.
When pir shams is on his way zakhrya satres angrily at the boat which causes it to shake means that evil forces or satan will try to movie you away from ur religion. Than pir shams recites some bol which causes horns to grow on zakhrya's head means that we can conquer the evil forces or satanic froces or our instincts and inner desires (bcz thats what satan really is) throgh ibadat n bandagi. After that Pir Shams safely reaches the other side than zakhrya sends his two sons to ask for forgiveness and so the pir does, here we get the lesson of to forgive and forget is the best path rather than to take revenge.
This is my point od view my interpretation not taken from any waz or any where else this is what i wanted u guys 2 do now ofourse ur intrepretaion will be different as there are many ways of loking at a thing.
Hope 2 hear ur reply soon! also appreaciate some comments on ma interpretaion :) bye n yam 4 now
I do not think that Pir Shamsh's encounter with Zakaria is in the Ginans. It is a story and a historical fact rather than a legend. There is no connection between it and the Ginan that you have quoted. Though it is quite legitimate to derive lessons from it for our own lives as you have done which is interesting.
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mehboobmehdi
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The following is the granth "momin chetamani" by syed imam shah in which he has stated the miracles of pir shams:<BR><BR>204. Pir Shams was from Pir Saladin's (check) lineage and was born in Tabrez (check) and he taught that same religion and dedicated his life.<BR><BR>Verses deleted.<BR>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>Edited by Admin. Please do not post long repeat text that can be found in this site. Just give the link and the verses numbers and people will click the link.<BR><BR>Admin
Thanks for the reference, obviously I was wrong - my apologies for that.
According to "A Brief History of Ismailism" by Abualy missionary, the ancestors of Bahahhudin still bear scars of the antlers! This shows that there is some reality to the story.
But still there is no connection between the story and the Garbi. They are different situations. The boat referred to in the garbi is not made of paper. In my opinion Pir Shamsh created the boat from paper and sailed on it to demonstrate his miraculous powers and for no other reason. The entire episode was to demonstrate the power of the Peer and not to tamper with him... else there are dire consequences. The forgiveness was not unconditional. It was conditional upon Bahahhudin keeping himself away from further mischief.
According to "A Brief History of Ismailism" by Abualy missionary, the ancestors of Bahahhudin still bear scars of the antlers! This shows that there is some reality to the story.
But still there is no connection between the story and the Garbi. They are different situations. The boat referred to in the garbi is not made of paper. In my opinion Pir Shamsh created the boat from paper and sailed on it to demonstrate his miraculous powers and for no other reason. The entire episode was to demonstrate the power of the Peer and not to tamper with him... else there are dire consequences. The forgiveness was not unconditional. It was conditional upon Bahahhudin keeping himself away from further mischief.
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star_munir
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Ya Ali Madad Mehboob Mehdi,
I not meant to wrote you that you don't believe in miracles. I was saying generally that many scholars of modern times do not believe them to be correct. But they are a part of history and are correct. I agree with KMaherAli that "The entire episode was to demonstrate the power of the Peer and not to tamper with him... else there are dire consequences. The forgiveness was not unconditional. It was conditional upon Bahahhudin keeping himself away from further mischief."
But I liked the esoteric meaning you wrote from your point of views. There can be certain meanings but the fact is that its not a symbolical story.
I not meant to wrote you that you don't believe in miracles. I was saying generally that many scholars of modern times do not believe them to be correct. But they are a part of history and are correct. I agree with KMaherAli that "The entire episode was to demonstrate the power of the Peer and not to tamper with him... else there are dire consequences. The forgiveness was not unconditional. It was conditional upon Bahahhudin keeping himself away from further mischief."
But I liked the esoteric meaning you wrote from your point of views. There can be certain meanings but the fact is that its not a symbolical story.
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star_munir
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Ya Ali Madad Mehboob Mehdi,
I not meant to wrote you that you don't believe in miracles. I was saying generally that many scholars of modern times do not believe them to be correct. But they are a part of history and are correct. I agree with KMaherAli that "The entire episode was to demonstrate the power of the Peer and not to tamper with him... else there are dire consequences. The forgiveness was not unconditional. It was conditional upon Bahahhudin keeping himself away from further mischief."
But I liked the esoteric meaning you wrote from your point of views. There can be certain meanings but the fact is that its not a symbolical story.
I not meant to wrote you that you don't believe in miracles. I was saying generally that many scholars of modern times do not believe them to be correct. But they are a part of history and are correct. I agree with KMaherAli that "The entire episode was to demonstrate the power of the Peer and not to tamper with him... else there are dire consequences. The forgiveness was not unconditional. It was conditional upon Bahahhudin keeping himself away from further mischief."
But I liked the esoteric meaning you wrote from your point of views. There can be certain meanings but the fact is that its not a symbolical story.
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mehboobmehdi
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star_munir
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hussainkhan55
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ARE U SURE GUYS
Like most of U , i too think the antler thing MIGHT be taken literally, but there is o­ne logical problem with it<BR><BR>If Pir Shams really cursed Zakariya for eternity then his decendents might have bore ANTLERS EVEN NOW!!!!!! But so far no case is reported in Multan.
Re: ARE U SURE GUYS
and you've been to multan and checked?hussainkhan55 wrote:Like most of U , i too think the antler thing MIGHT be taken literally, but there is o­ne logical problem with it<BR><BR>If Pir Shams really cursed Zakariya for eternity then his decendents might have bore ANTLERS EVEN NOW!!!!!! But so far no case is reported in Multan.
S.
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hussainkhan55
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REPLY TO SHAMS B
<P>with todays unprecedented advancement in electronic and print media, such amazing discovery should inevitably had hit big news all over.<BR><BR>Let me assure U im just a curious ismaili and therefore expect somewhat logical answers based o­n facts, though i had never been to Multan.</P>
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hussainkhan55
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REPLY TO SHAMS B
With unprecedented advancement in electronic and print media, such amazing discovery it should inevitably hit big news all over.<BR><BR>im just a curious ismaili who expects logical answers based o­n facts though i would encourage anyone who provides feedback o­n this.<BR><BR>THNX