What is greater Ibadaat or Bandagi

[ismaili103]

first I have to recognize my self (shariyat)

Oh so recognizing yourself is shariat...Wow..

We Ismailis are already on the stage Tariqat, so what does it mean we already recognize ourself.

Recognizing him self is not shariat but MARIFAT. God is in you, then you get to know Its not God its You , Then you recognize yourself. Its marifat.

Mowla Ali says : " jis ne khud ko pehchana, us ne goya rab ko pehchana. "

I remember a verse from the poem of rumi on mansoor al hallaj.

Rumi wrote ( not exact words )

Al hallaj sat on bandagi and he saw A Light( Noor)
Hallaj said to Noor, who is you, Noor replied YOU.

[kmaherali]

My query is about the quotation of MSMS in KIM that Mowla Ali said," If I do not see Khuda (Allah), I shall not practice His ibadat". I asked, who is that superior God to which Mowla Ali pointed that if do not see Him, he will not do His ibadat. You wrote," it means that if one can not see God then his bandagi is not acknowledged". Poor momin in BK did bandagi for 15/20 years 24/7/365 has no reward because he could not see God.

Actually to see God in reality one would have to become God. Only God can see God. A human being cannot see God in reality by his/her own physical eyes, but he can see with his physical eyes as per MSMS's Farman, if he recognizes the Imam of the time as being God. Hence when he sees the Imam he sees God.

When a person becomes Fanna fi Allah, he constantly 'sees' God with his third eye that is cultivated and developed through Ibadat. It is not the same kind of seeing as through human eyes like we see. Pir Sadardeen refers to this kind of seeing in the verse of the Ginan Sakhee Mahaapad Kerre Vaat http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/23118:

sakhee kahevaa sareekho nathee ke maaro saamee jee re
eto jovaa sareekho chhe alakh anaamee re.........................12

O beloved ones, my Lord (attained through this experience) does
not bear any telling (as He is undescribable) and He is nameless.
He can only be seen or experienced (through spiritual elevation).

sakhee alakh anaamee saaheb laagyaa mitthaa re
bhanne peer sadardeen shaah, me najare deetthaa re...............13

O beloved ones, this nameless and indescriptible Lord was felt to
be very sweet to me. Peer Sadardeen teaches this ginaan and says:
"I have seen the Lord with my own (spiritual) eyes".

You wrote."one of the acts of ibadat of the Imam would be to deliver farman"
You mean making farman is the ibadat of Imam. Does he need it? Again question is, when Imam sees superior God and then he starts making farman, because Mowla Ali said," if I do not see God, I shall not practice His ibadat".

As per MHI's Farman the meaning of Ibadat is to carry one's faith in his heart and soul. So as long as the Imam is alive he will always carry his faith in his heart and soul. However the faith of the Fanna invidual such as the Imam is not the same as the faith of an ordinary human being. He carries the faith that he is one with Allah whereas as ordinary person carries the faith that Allah is with him. There is a difference.

[mazharshah]

first I have to recognize my self (shariyat)

Oh so recognizing yourself is shariat...Wow..

We Ismailis are already on the stage Tariqat, so what does it mean we already recognize ourself.

Recognizing him self is not shariat but MARIFAT. God is in you, then you get to know Its not God its You , Then you recognize yourself. Its marifat.

Mowla Ali says : " jis ne khud ko pehchana, us ne goya rab ko pehchana. "

I remember a verse from the poem of rumi on mansoor al hallaj.

Rumi wrote ( not exact words )

Al hallaj sat on bandagi and he saw A Light( Noor)
Hallaj said to Noor, who is you, Noor replied YOU.

Shariyat is basic course, which is common to all followers. on Shariyat stage a follower is not getting Bol but at Tariqat stage after promise Imam gives Bol.
My personal Ma'rifat is, I know myself, what my capabilities are and can I take responsibilities. I gave reference of 2nd part of Du'a. Allah, Rasul, Imam, Momin. Momin recognize himself and merge with Imam spiritually from there merge with Rasul and finally with Allah. Fana fi Murshid is fana fi Rasul and fana fi Rasul is fana fi Allah.
God is in every particle and in every person, even those who do not believe in Him. I have already mentioned," KHUD RA SHANAAS TAA KHUDA RA SHANAASI". You should have quoted Persian words of Rumi. Let me quote this beautiful couplet of Rumi.

MON NA MI GUYAM ANALHAQ, YAAR MI GUYAD BIGO
MON NA MI GUYAM, MIRA DILDAAR MI GUYAD BIGO (RUMI)

[mazharshah]

Below are some sermans of Mowla Ali (s.a.)

"I am the sign of the Most Hight,
I am the Gnosis of Mysteries,
I am the Door of the Doors,
I am the First and the Last.
I am the Manifest and the Hidden.
I am the creator.
I give birth to the world
and I destroy it as i wish.
I am the face of God,
I am the Supreme Kalam."


And Below are some farmans of Imam Hasan Ali Shah & Ali Shah (s.a.) respectively:

Imam Hasan Ali Shah's farrman :



Imam Hasan Ali Shah told: One day prophet Mohd was sited with his holy family then bibi Fateha (s..a.) asked him: hai dad! please show me the Allah? then rasool told her that (look over there) that !Allah's hand is on Hussein !! at that moments H. Ali put his own hand on the head of Imam Hussein, then bibi Fatema told with joy "mowla Ali him self is the Allah - Allah sahi Allah. Mumbai Aasho sanwat date 25 sanwat 1928 , Date 25th year 1872.

Imam Hasan Ali Shah farman :


Imam Hasan Ali Shah told: When you say ALI ALLAH IN JAMAT KHANAS then you receive unlimited sawab for that but when you says (ALI SAHI ALLAH) then its sawab reches til the Arsh- e- Azim.

He, Jamats, I am the same Ali Sahi Allah! who is in presence of you right now, if any one who doubt about that he/she will go in hell!!

Jeth month date 1st, sanwat 1916: year 1860, place not found.


Imam Ali Shah told ( when he was in pir's joma) Farman :



Ali is the true Allah and if any one bring doubt on this then he will goes in hell. told Hasan Ali shah is the true Murtaza Ali - a true Allah, if you believe this then you will receive salvation.

Magshar sud Beej, sanwat 1930 year 1874 place Mumbai.

Farman " Imam Ali Shah told:


Imam Aga Ali Shah told, That person who does not know Mowla Murtaza Ali and prays after mullahs, he will not receives any benefits. we already showed you a true path whether to believe it or not its totally up to you!! MOWLA MURTAZA ALI IS THE KHUDAWIND AALMIN, if any one doubt about this then he is kafar.

I think these is enough for Mr. Bahurupi but if he wants more then I have plenty farmans on hand Remember this I have not still touch SMS's farmans on Ali is the Allah! yet

I was not at time of Imam Shah Hasan Ali Shah or Imam Shah ALI shah. I am in era of present Imam Shah Karim. I obey his farman," Ali is from Allah". If he will say Ali is Allah, I shall obey his farman. I quoted before also in one of my postings, that in British court Imam gave affidavit that," neither he nor his grand father claim divinity". Do you believe Imam lied?
What about 7 billion human beings who do not believe Ali is Allah will all go to hell?!

[mazharshah]

You wrote."one of the acts of ibadat of the Imam would be to deliver farman"
You mean making farman is the ibadat of Imam. Does he need it? Again question is, when Imam sees superior God and then he starts making farman, because Mowla Ali said," if I do not see God, I shall not practice His ibadat".

As per MHI's Farman the meaning of Ibadat is to carry one's faith in his heart and soul. So as long as the Imam is alive he will always carry his faith in his heart and soul. However the faith of the Fanna invidual such as the Imam is not the same as the faith of an ordinary human being. He carries the faith that he is one with Allah whereas as ordinary person carries the faith that Allah is with him. There is a difference.

You wrote," He carries the FAITH that he is one with Allah ". So you are talking about different entities 'he carries' and 'one with Allah'. After fana fi Allah, a drop is merged with ocean BUT that drop will not be called ocean on its own.
MOTI JAL THI HOUT HAI, PAR JAL KAHIYO NA JAAI.

[agakhani_1]

I was not at time of Imam Shah Hasan Ali Shah or Imam Shah ALI shah. I am in era of present Imam Shah Karim. I obey his farman," Ali is from Allah". If he will say Ali is Allah, I shall obey his farman. I quoted before also in one of my postings, that in British court Imam gave affidavit that," neither he nor his grand father claim divinity". Do you believe Imam lied?
What about 7 billion human beings who do not believe Ali is Allah will all go to hell?!

You were not at the time of Hazarat Ali b(s.a.) either!! then why you are so silly about that quotation which SMS made for H> Ali? that if H. Ali see not God, I shall not do His ibadat.!! were you there during H. Ali's time?
First of all human being doesn't have ability to see God! show me any person who claims that he has shown God.
Second as I and many other participants wrote too many times that if any imam doesn"t supershed any farmans of previous Imams then those previous Imams farmans counted as true, update and current. Did current imam ever made farmans any where that the previous imams farmans are not valid? if yes then show me the date and place.
To me "ALI IS THE ALLAH" PERIOD.

[mazharshah]

I was not at time of Imam Shah Hasan Ali Shah or Imam Shah ALI shah. I am in era of present Imam Shah Karim. I obey his farman," Ali is from Allah". If he will say Ali is Allah, I shall obey his farman. I quoted before also in one of my postings, that in British court Imam gave affidavit that," neither he nor his grand father claim divinity". Do you believe Imam lied?
What about 7 billion human beings who do not believe Ali is Allah will all go to hell?!

You were not at the time of Hazarat Ali b(s.a.) either!! then why you are so silly about that quotation which SMS made for H> Ali? that if H. Ali see not God, I shall not do His ibadat.!! were you there during H. Ali's time?
First of all human being doesn't have ability to see God! show me any person who claims that he has shown God.
Second as I and many other participants wrote too many times that if any imam doesn"t supershed any farmans of previous Imams then those previous Imams farmans counted as true, update and current. Did current imam ever made farmans any where that the previous imams farmans are not valid? if yes then show me the date and place.
To me "ALI IS THE ALLAH" PERIOD.

I know you. You are around 65 years old, therefore you were not in this world either at time of Imam Shah Hasan Ali Shah and Imam Ali shah. I quoted a farman from KIM. It is not an out side source. Again I quoted a farman of present Imam Shah Karim, again this is also an Ismaili source.
Obey the farman of present Imam. I have not stopped you and others for saying Ali Allah. I am quoting farmans and words speak for them selves.
When my Imam will order me to say Ali Allah, I shall do. For now it is ALIULLAH, which you say 3 times daily in Du'a.

[kmaherali]

I was not at time of Imam Shah Hasan Ali Shah or Imam Shah ALI shah. I am in era of present Imam Shah Karim. I obey his farman," Ali is from Allah". If he will say Ali is Allah, I shall obey his farman. I quoted before also in one of my postings, that in British court Imam gave affidavit that," neither he nor his grand father claim divinity". Do you believe Imam lied?
What about 7 billion human beings who do not believe Ali is Allah will all go to hell?!

YOU have been made aware that the present Imam has made Farmans about Ali Allah several times, so why do you keep mentioning Ali from Allah all the time. You are being dishonest now.
Here is the link to where it was mentioned before. Please do not keep repeating the same over and over again.
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... &start=270
What the Imams say in public audience in the court is not the same as what he says in his Farmans and Ginans…

You wrote," He carries the FAITH that he is one with Allah ". So you are talking about different entities 'he carries' and 'one with Allah'. After fana fi Allah, a drop is merged with ocean BUT that drop will not be called ocean on its own.
MOTI JAL THI HOUT HAI, PAR JAL KAHIYO NA JAAI.

I think you have misunderstood the meaning of ‘Moti jal thi…”
In Buj Nirinjan http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/23011, it is stated
re tu(n)hee ....
motee jalthee hot ha-e
fir jal kahayo na jaay re;
mugataa fal chhedee-e,
samuddra chhedee-o na jaaere...................................V
O You, ...
A pearl is made from a drop of water, then it is not called water anymore; a pearl can be pierced but can you pierce water?
(This analogy implies that we have come from the ocean of Noor just as a pearl is made from the ocean and unlike a pearl, we should not maintain our ego or individuality, else life will 'pierce' us).
The above verse refers to the pearl as being the ego. The ego can be pierced but the water cannot.
When a person loses himself and becomes Fanna, the pearl becomes water again and hence cannot be pierced or effected by time.
When a person becomes Fanna, his eye is the same as the eye of God.
“The eye through which I see God is the same eye through which God sees me; my eye and God's eye are one eye, one seeing, one knowing, one love.”
― Meister Eckhart

[Admin]

There is no difference between Aliyullah and Ali Sahi Allah, except for the language of the Expression.

We say Nabiyullah (Nabi OF Allah) and we say Aliyullah (Ali = Highest OF Allah)

In the expression Aliyullah there no verb such as "IS" like in "is from Allah", this is a mistaken translation. Some call it Taqqiya.

[mazharshah]

I was not at time of Imam Shah Hasan Ali Shah or Imam Shah ALI shah. I am in era of present Imam Shah Karim. I obey his farman," Ali is from Allah". If he will say Ali is Allah, I shall obey his farman. I quoted before also in one of my postings, that in British court Imam gave affidavit that," neither he nor his grand father claim divinity". Do you believe Imam lied?
What about 7 billion human beings who do not believe Ali is Allah will all go to hell?!

YOU have been made aware that the present Imam has made Farmans about Ali Allah several times, so why do you keep mentioning Ali from Allah all the time. You are being dishonest now.
Here is the link to where it was mentioned before. Please do not keep repeating the same over and over again.
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... &start=270
What the Imams say in public audience in the court is not the same as what he says in his Farmans and Ginans…

You wrote," He carries the FAITH that he is one with Allah ". So you are talking about different entities 'he carries' and 'one with Allah'. After fana fi Allah, a drop is merged with ocean BUT that drop will not be called ocean on its own.
MOTI JAL THI HOUT HAI, PAR JAL KAHIYO NA JAAI.

I think you have misunderstood the meaning of ‘Moti jal thi…”
In Buj Nirinjan http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/23011, it is stated
re tu(n)hee ....
motee jalthee hot ha-e
fir jal kahayo na jaay re;
mugataa fal chhedee-e,
samuddra chhedee-o na jaaere...................................V
O You, ...
A pearl is made from a drop of water, then it is not called water anymore; a pearl can be pierced but can you pierce water?
(This analogy implies that we have come from the ocean of Noor just as a pearl is made from the ocean and unlike a pearl, we should not maintain our ego or individuality, else life will 'pierce' us).
The above verse refers to the pearl as being the ego. The ego can be pierced but the water cannot.
When a person loses himself and becomes Fanna, the pearl becomes water again and hence cannot be pierced or effected by time.
When a person becomes Fanna, his eye is the same as the eye of God.
“The eye through which I see God is the same eye through which God sees me; my eye and God's eye are one eye, one seeing, one knowing, one love.”
― Meister Eckhart

Moti jal thi hout hai-----
Moti and jal are two different things, different entities. If you say after fana fi Allah Imam is merged with Allah that's why he is Allah; take my example, if I merge with Allah can I be called Allah. I DARE NOT. There are hundreds may be thousands of examples where saints and sufis merged with Allah after fana, are they entitled to be called Allah? So there will be thousands of Allah.
You are getting tired with my questions and loosing your coolness, let me ask you and please answer me YES or NO.
Did Shah Karim said," Ali is from Allah" yes or not.

[mazharshah]

There is no difference between Aliyullah and Ali Sahi Allah, except for the language of the Expression.

We say Nabiyullah (Nabi OF Allah) and we say Aliyullah (Ali = Highest OF Allah)

In the expression Aliyullah there no verb such as "IS" like in "is from Allah", this is a mistaken translation. Some call it Taqqiya.

Aliullah, Nabiullah, Waliullah, Kitabullah, Noorullah and so on. These phrases are according to MUDHAFU WA MUDHAFUN ILAIHI according to Arabic grammar.
As you wrote, Nabiullah means Nabi OF Allah or (Nabi from Allah), same approach will be used for other phrases which I mentioned. Therefore Aliullah means Ali of Allah or Ali from Allah. Like Kitabullah means Kitab of Allah or Kitab from Allah. The verb 'IS' has nothing to do with this phrase according to grammar. The verb " IS " is used here according to English grammar by Imam to understand the clear meaning.

[Admin]

Did Shah Karim said," Ali is from Allah" yes or not.

Nope.


You have been proven wrong so many times and given references whcih have been proven wrong also so many times that you have lost all credibility.

[kmaherali]

Moti jal thi hout hai-----
Moti and jal are two different things, different entities. If you say after fana fi Allah Imam is merged with Allah that's why he is Allah; take my example, if I merge with Allah can I be called Allah. I DARE NOT. There are hundreds may be thousands of examples where saints and sufis merged with Allah after fana, are they entitled to be called Allah? So there will be thousands of Allah.
You are getting tired with my questions and loosing your coolness, let me ask you and please answer me YES or NO.
Did Shah Karim said," Ali is from Allah" yes or not.

Yes there may be hundreds or thousands who can merge into Allah, however they will not claim to be Allah because there is no need for them to say that, so long as they themselves are clear about it. MHI in his BUK farmans adivces those who succeed not to discuss with anyone their experience. Keep it within themselves and enjoy it.

In the case of the Imam, it is a different matter because he guides his murids towards Fanna. Therefore he must be Fanna himself and hence Allah for others to accept him as their guide. How would he be able to guide others to a station he himself has no understanding of?

Yes he did, so what? Aren't we all from Allah as well. What would be the significance of saying Ali is from Allah. How would he then be different than the rest of us?

According to the Paris Conference documents, it was resolved that Imam should be understood as Mazhar of Allah. So that is important.

[zznoor]

Br Mazhar

AS Regarding seeing Allah there is a Hadith called "Hadith of Gibreal"

Hadith goes like this He asked prophet what is "Ihsan" and prophet replied


Then he further asked, "What is Ihsan (perfection)?" Allah's Apostle replied, "To worship Allah as if you see Him, and if you cannot achieve this state of devotion then you must consider that He is looking at you."

Nobody can see Allah because he has no shape or form. So perfectin in Bandagi is to achieve state of mind "as if you see Allah"

I believe HZ Ali essentially said same thing about Ibadan.
You can lookup complete Hadith by searching.

Salaam

[nuseri]

Ya Ali Madad.
Which Ayat says he is formless?.if one want to believe in dead stories,one must get buried in the grave yard of sayers
When ALI said it was all were blind then to even understand two word like IMAMEMUBEEN.
It was to tell that thus ruling were also blind then .so in others word how could they direct anybody..Ali spoke as first person in khutba e bayan.
BTW.this serpent does not believe in any word written or said by any book before he was born.
I will explain how d acts of the sharia/ blinds is a PUNISHMENT with logic n reasoning of today's mind.
Inshallah in near future IMAM of the time will address UNO with Ismaili flag flying in that period. The non Ismaili is on paid assignment with one point agenda. You are 100 times more blessed inspire gone away from tariqa.

[nuseri]

Ya Ali Madad.
Which Ayat says he is formless?.if one want to believe in dead stories,one must get buried in the grave yard of sayers
When ALI said it was all were blind then to even understand two word like IMAMEMUBEEN.
It was to tell that thus ruling were also blind then .so in others word how could they direct anybody..Ali spoke as first person in khutba e bayan.

[mazharshah]

Did Shah Karim said," Ali is from Allah" yes or not.

Nope.


You have been proven wrong so many times and given references whcih have been proven wrong also so many times that you have lost all credibility.

Admins,
You are a resourceful person and have a long reach. Why are you shying to
e-mail ITREB Karachi and ask them," In 1964, did Imam said, Ali is from Allah" when he was asked to explain meaning of ALIULLAH.
Also ask them, what is the official view of all ITREBs on status of Imam. Is he Allah or not. Tell them need clear reply yes or no.

[mazharshah]

Ya Ali Madad.
Which Ayat says he is formless?.if one want to believe in dead stories,one must get buried in the grave yard of sayers
When ALI said it was all were blind then to even understand two word like IMAMEMUBEEN.
It was to tell that thus ruling were also blind then .so in others word how could they direct anybody..Ali spoke as first person in khutba e bayan.

Noor is formless, you can see the bulb glowing but not the emitting light out of it. Noor has no weight. You can not catch the sun rays in your hands but you can convert sun rays into light.
My question to all. In which century KHUTBA E BAYAN was recorded?

[mazharshah]

Moti jal thi hout hai-----
Moti and jal are two different things, different entities. If you say after fana fi Allah Imam is merged with Allah that's why he is Allah; take my example, if I merge with Allah can I be called Allah. I DARE NOT. There are hundreds may be thousands of examples where saints and sufis merged with Allah after fana, are they entitled to be called Allah? So there will be thousands of Allah.
You are getting tired with my questions and loosing your coolness, let me ask you and please answer me YES or NO.
Did Shah Karim said," Ali is from Allah" yes or not.

Yes there may be hundreds or thousands who can merge into Allah, however they will not claim to be Allah because there is no need for them to say that, so long as they themselves are clear about it. MHI in his BUK farmans adivces those who succeed not to discuss with anyone their experience. Keep it within themselves and enjoy.

In the case of the Imam, it is a different matter because he guides his murids towards Fanna. Therefore he must be Fanna himself and hence Allah for others to accept him as their guide. How would he be able to guide others to a station he himself has no understanding of?

Yes he did, so what? Aren't we all from Allah as well. What would be the significance of saying Ali is from Allah. How would he then be different than the rest of us?

According to the Paris Conference documents, it was resolved that Imam should be understood as Mazhar of Allah. So that is important.

At least you admitted," yes he did, so what". Karim I believe Imam is Mazhar of Allah but not Allah himself. This is my belief from beginning.
Hazar Imam has said," through noor of Ali, through noor of Imamat you will seek come closer to He who is above all else". Now look at the wordings, through noor of Ali, through noor of Imamat and let me quote here Imam Ja'far Sadiq that " nahnu baabullah. The word 'through' indicates intercessor,
zariya, wasila, bihaqqi.

[kmaherali]

Then he further asked, "What is Ihsan (perfection)?" Allah's Apostle replied, "To worship Allah as if you see Him, and if you cannot achieve this state of devotion then you must consider that He is looking at you."

Nobody can see Allah because he has no shape or form. So perfectin in Bandagi is to achieve state of mind "as if you see Allah"

That is generally true, however in the context of the Farman as explained by the Imam himself, seeing Allah with physical eyes means recognizing the Imam as God, and hence seeing Imam would be equivalent to seeing Allah.

[kmaherali]

At least you admitted," yes he did, so what". Karim I believe Imam is Mazhar of Allah but not Allah himself. This is my belief from beginning.
Hazar Imam has said," through noor of Ali, through noor of Imamat you will seek come closer to He who is above all else". Now look at the wordings, through noor of Ali, through noor of Imamat and let me quote here Imam Ja'far Sadiq that " nahnu baabullah. The word 'through' indicates intercessor,
zariya, wasila, bihaqqi.

There is really not much difference between the Mazhar of Allah and Allah himself. I had explained before so I want repeat here. Go to:
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... &start=270

In our Tariqah the Imam is GurNar or ShahPir - both the Shah and the Pir. In the role of the Pir he acts as the Bearer of Noor through whom you attain or come close to he who is above all else - the Imam. That is the intercessor role you mentioned.

MHI does not make it explicit that 'he who is above else' is himself because not many people have the capacity to undertand him in that light and hence he is giving more leverage for people to come to that understanding according to their capacity.

But according to our Ginans, it is quite clear that the Imam is the station to be attained:

ejee nabee mahamad bujo bhaai, to tame paamo imaam
musharak man to kaafar kaheeye, moman deel kuraan..illaahee..2

Brothers, know Prophet Muhammed, then you will attain the Imaam. Only a kaafir (infidel) has polytheistic tendencies in his/her mind(heart). But a momin's heart is the Holy Qur'aan.

http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/22819

[zznoor]

Then he further asked, "What is Ihsan (perfection)?" Allah's Apostle replied, "To worship Allah as if you see Him, and if you cannot achieve this state of devotion then you must consider that He is looking at you."

Nobody can see Allah because he has no shape or form. So perfectin in Bandagi is to achieve state of mind "as if you see Allah"

That is generally true, however in the context of the Farman as explained by the Imam himself, seeing Allah with physical eyes means recognizing the Imam as God, and hence seeing Imam would be equivalent to seeing Allah.

Really!

He said that Ismailis should recognize MHI as Allah?

[agakhani_1]

Really!

He said that Ismailis should recognize MHI as Allah?

Yes Really!!!

Do you still have doubt on it!!!!?

[kmaherali]

Really!

He said that Ismailis should recognize MHI as Allah?

Yes in those days it was even embedded in Dua - Ali Sahi Allah.

[zznoor]

Really!

He said that Ismailis should recognize MHI as Allah?

Yes in those days it was even embedded in Dua - Ali Sahi Allah.

On this age of Internet "can he say he is Allah"?
He has has already testified under pain of purgeries that he and his grand father are not Devine. Can he claim that he played ras Lila with Gopies?

[Admin]

zznoor, how does this affect your life?

[kmaherali]

On this age of Internet "can he say he is Allah"?
He has has already testified under pain of purgeries that he and his grand father are not Devine. Can he claim that he played ras Lila with Gopies?

As I said this was mentioned in the context of a Farman to his murids about 100 years ago. It is very much part of our tradition.

Of course he would not make such a statement publicly in a court of law or make such a statement in an official website such as AKDN, IIS or Ismaili.org.

This notwithstanding ours is an esoteric tradition which means that there are matters that can be shared in the public domain - the zaher and there are matters restricted to the muruds- the batin.

This forum in my opinion represents the batin. It is visited by an infinitesimal minority of the web users. In fact there are only a handful who actually partcipate actively. It is also one of the millions of sites available. You can of course choose to ignore it if it does not cater to your needs.

[kmaherali]

Can he claim that he played ras Lila with Gopies?

I forgot to react to this earlier..

There is an anecdote that the 48th Imam mentioned how he enjoyed with the Gopies..

“MISSIONARY! YE KONSA STATION HAY?” Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah while recollecting His Divine “Noorani” aspect and “Noorani” incarnation of five thousand years ago, asked one of the missionaries on His Huzur staff while travelling in the interior of India.

“KHUDAWIND! YE MATHURA KA STATION HE! ,” the missionary replied.

“MISSIONARY, KRISHNA AVTAR ME MAYNE IDHAR BAHOT KHEL KIYA, AUR MOMINOKO BAHOT LADD LADAYA,” Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah uttered these unique and most wonderful recollections of His Divine Avtar.

Since you know Hindustani, I don't need to translate!

[zznoor]

There is an anecdote that the 48th Imam mentioned how he enjoyed with the Gopies..

“MISSIONARY! YE KONSA STATION HAY?” Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah while recollecting His Divine “Noorani” aspect

Kbhai
Have you ever thought that all knowing Devine person does not know where he was and had to ask missonary which station it was.!!!

And not telling nothing but truth in court and under oath is punishable purgery! Is it not?

This is just my observation, i do not need another "Taqiya" explaination.

Salaam

[nuseri]

To zznoor:Ya Ali Madad.
You have many questions pending.reply those.Isamili follows the Imam n what is said in JK.and not perse any litigation papers.
Do you have video recording of Agakhan statement in court read the wording ,it could have been points prepared by attorney on behalf of their client.did the judge issue order?.
No Ismaili left from it the same country has given him highest honour n also diplomatic passport held by their own royalty
Science has proved that is oxygen is from air n vice versa with process.so in legal defence
In spite corelated. Legal will air is not oxygen to layman.
How you say does not change the status of oxygen.in legal parlance it is telling masked truth and cannot be proved as lie.
Same way whether you say Allah is from Ali as said by imam jaffer sadiq Aga Ali Shah n
or say Ali is from Allah,it does not change the status a bit,it made some blind ones happy.
If creation has hidden oxygen in air.the creator being more intelligent to have name ALI hiiden in the name Allah.blind does see it as like oxygen.
Noir is intellect Mike Sundays formless but comes from the Sun which has definite form.
So receiver of ray does not become the Sun,as one blind living species is claiming is ex is Mahar n bearer if Noir,the microscopic recover is the same status n even choose as login id.
So what legal word n phrase the statement for Agakhan has no no value for Ismaili who follow Fatman,today they are rich,well educated n cannot be fooled.Only a disgraced child
Get happy when father is tested n insulted. IT WOULD BE BETTER THEY DO APPEAR NSPEAK TO PAST FAMILY MEMBERS.