Recycling of souls.

[kmaherali]

If some one has to learn and understand tawheed, the best lesson is in Adam and Iblees story.In my view, Iblees was the true lover of God, that's why he refused to prostrate Adam.

In my opinion one cannot be a true lover of God when he doesn't not obey the Farman. You cannot argue with him. If he says it is night then it is night and if he says that it is day it is day. We surrender our opinions to him. He not doubt was a man of learning but lost everything in his disobedience.

Verses from the Ginan: Allah ek Khassam Sabbuka

ejee jumale feerashte sujeedaa keeyaa, aadam sujeedaa leeyaa
ajaajeele farmaan na maanyaa, so lekhaa radaj keeyaa
......illaahee.......4

All the angels prostrated and Adam accepted their prostrations. Azazil did not obey
or follow the Farmaans and therefore annulled all his earnings completely.

ejee ajaajeel feerashtaa buzarag kaheeye
ane budheeva(n)t kaheeye tesaa
chhatrees karodd keetaabaa paddeeyaa
pann bheetar bhed na paayaa..............illaahee............6

The angel Azazil is regarded as very honoured and is also considered to be very intelligent.
He read and studied thirty six crore books but did not realise the essence of the interior (soul, heart).

The proper and efficient way of worshipping the Tawhed is by devotion to the Mazhar - the Hujjat, because there is support, guidance and wisdom in it.

In Chapter 12 of Bhagavad Gita Arjuna asks Lord Krishna:

12.1 Those who in oneness worship thee as God immanent in all; and those who worship the Transcendent, the Imperishable - Of these, who are the best Yogis?

Lord Krishna replies:

12.2 Those who set their hearts on me and ever in love worship me, and who have unshakable faith, these I hold as the best Yogis.

12.5 Yet greater is the toil of those whose minds are set on the Transcendent, for the path of the Transcendent is hard for mortals to attain.

12.6/7 But they for whom I am the End Supreme, who surrender all their works to me, and who with pure love meditate on me and adore me - these I very soon deliver from the ocean of death and life-in-death, because they have set their heart on me.

[Admin]

In my opinion one cannot be a true lover of God when he doesn't not obey the Farman.

You mean he DOES not obey

There is one category of people and one situation when this is reversed. That is when Imam is recognising the love of the Murid.

Here are two examples.

The night before the Karbala Massacre, Imam Hussein asked all of those who were with him to leave in the darkness so they would be sparred from the massacre which was inevitable.

Only 72 people remained, those who remained and therefore did NaFarmani tried to protect the Imam physically up to their last breath.

Their sacrificed is recognised in many Farmans.

Another example is that once Hazar Imam said he did not want any gift. The Jamat still gave him a gift. Hazar Imam said you did Nafarmani but I have also accepted your gift (your Nafarmani

So I do believe that there is a possibility that Azazil may have sacrificed himself for the love of the Imam and his jamat. He may actually have been successful in the test by doing what he did (rather by not doing!)

[junglikhan4]

If some one has to learn and understand tawheed, the best lesson is in Adam and Iblees story.In my view, Iblees was the true lover of God, that's why he refused to prostrate Adam.

In my opinion one cannot be a true lover of God when he doesn't not obey the Farman. You cannot argue with him. If he says it is night then it is night and if he says that it is day it is day. We surrender our opinions to him. He not doubt was a man of learning but lost everything in his disobedience.


Reply to Km,

Love is blind. Love is a fire. Love does not obey intellect. A person in love with some particular girl, disobeys his parents. kings and princes gave up their kingdoms.

BEY KHATAR KUUD PARA ATISH E NAMRUD MEY ISHQ
AQAL THI MAHWEY TAMASHA E LAB E BAAM ABHI (ALLAMAH IQBAL)

Real love is for ever. Adam died but Iblees is alive till today, He remembers God and that is because of haqiqi ishq.

PREM PERA TISEY PUCHHU JAAI
JENEY BHAN KALEJEY KHAI

TERI RAMAZ KA PIYA ME(N) HU(N) DEEWANA
ISHQ AQAL BHULAYA MEREY SAHEB (PIR SHAMS)

SHAD BAASH AY ISHQ KHUSH SODAI MA
AY TABIB E JUMLAI 'ILAT HAAI MA ( ROMI )

Imam Ja'far Sadiq said," HALID DINA ILLAL HUBB". Is Deen some thing else without love.
Real lover Iblees will stay till doomsday. Love demands sacrifices and Iblees was successful. He sacrificed for will of God. Just imagine, if he had prostrated in front of Adam, the story should have been different.

[junglikhan4]

In my opinion one cannot be a true lover of God when he doesn't not obey the Farman.

You mean he DOES not obey

There is one category of people and one situation when this is reversed. That is when Imam is recognising the love of the Murid.

Here are two examples.

The night before the Karbala Massacre, Imam Hussein asked all of those who were with him to leave in the darkness so they would be sparred from the massacre which was inevitable.

Only 72 people remained, those who remained and therefore did NaFarmani tried to protect the Imam physically up to their last breath.

Their sacrificed is recognised in many Farmans.

Another example is that once Hazar Imam said he did not want any gift. The Jamat still gave him a gift. Hazar Imam said you did Nafarmani but I have also accepted your gift (your Nafarmani

So I do believe that there is a possibility that Azazil may have sacrificed himself for the love of the Imam and his jamat. He may actually have been successful in the test by doing what he did (rather by not doing!)

Reply to Admin,

Good examples.
Iblees sacrificed for will of God. He knew the repercussions, but his eyes were on end result. Love and sacrifices go hand in hand. He was successful in his test.

In a dialogue between Iblees and Jibrael, (a poem written by Allamah Iqbal)
Iblees answers Jibrael,

GAR KABHI KHILWAT HO MUYYASSIR TO PUCHH ALLAH SEY
QISSA E ADAM KO RANGEEN KAR GAYA KIS KA LAHU (ALLAMAH IQBAL)

[nuseri]

To kmaherali:ya Ali madad.
Did nuseri then did not follow or disobeyed Hz Ali's farman/order at tariqat level?
Please reply in few words.

[kmaherali]

To kmaherali:ya Ali madad.
Did nuseri then did not follow or disobeyed Hz Ali's farman/order at tariqat level?
Please reply in few words.

From the anecdote about Nuseri given at:

Do any one know?

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... topic&t=86

It is not clear whether a Farman was made not to say Ali Allah or whether Hazarat Ali was simply silencing him by cutting his throat.

In the case of Iblis it is a different matter. It was like the Imam changing Old Dua to a New Dua and then Iblis still insisting on reciting the Old Dua!

[junglikhan4]

To kmaherali:ya Ali madad.
Did nuseri then did not follow or disobeyed Hz Ali's farman/order at tariqat level?
Please reply in few words.

From the anecdote about Nuseri given at:

Do any one know?

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... topic&t=86

It is not clear whether a Farman was made not to say Ali Allah or whether Hazarat Ali was simply silencing him by cutting his throat.

In the case of Iblis it is a different matter. It was like the Imam changing Old
Dua to a New Dua and then Iblis still insisting on reciting the Old Dua!

Reply,

Did Iblees told you that he is still reciting old Du'a?
In my opinion Iblees is IBNUL WAQT. Now a days he is ultra modern, he changes according to time. He keeps eye on every move of God and is quick
in preemptive attacks.

[kmaherali]

Did Iblees told you that he is still reciting old Du'a?
In my opinion Iblees is IBNUL WAQT. Now a days he is ultra modern, he changes according to time. He keeps eye on every move of God and is quick
in preemptive attacks.

I was just making an analogy to explain the disobidience of Iblis.

[junglikhan4]

Is Daet Kalingo cousin of Iblees?

[junglikhan4]

Some characteristic and qualities of Iblees.

Like Gods particle is in every one same way Iblees's particle is in every one.
God has given Iblees unlimited powers.
He will stay till dooms day and beyond. Longest life than any creation.
He can move easily and reach any nook and corner of world.
He has authority to penetrate human minds and like a virus corrupt the hard drive of mind.
He is a good manipulator, has charisma to change thinking of humans.
Without Iblees JINEY KA KIA MAZA, LIFE SHOULD BE DULL AND BORING.
Iblees has patience, insult him still he is smiling and says," I shall be back".

[kmaherali]

Is Daet Kalingo cousin of Iblees?

Yes indeed the Iblees is the Kalingo himself who is in constant opposition and who seats in the other side of the throne as per Ginan http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/22864 verse:

ejee aradh aasann dait puraveene betthaajee
sheshttee saghallee namaavejee...............................3

The devil is established being seated in half a posture(otherside of the throne), and forces the entire creation to bow(to him).

The Ginan mentions all the powers of the Daint and how it can divert murids from the Path. The ultimate salvation lies in overcoming it's influence. The opposition is there to strengthen the murid and not weaken. Read the whole Ginan mentioned in the link.

[agakhani_1]

Ejee, aradh aasan dait.....
Shrushti sagali namaveji...

as per my interpretation of above verses is : Daint (CHINA) will be become so powerfull that he will be concered half the world and will rules in those countries.( look towards his eyes he already took control in Tibet, and alao some parts of dozens of neighbors countries including India and Pakistan) I read in one magazine that China has Border and lands disputes with almost 24 different countries. That is amazing!

Aradh: means half , not complete.
Aasan: means prosture which body has to perform.

You may have notice that any prostur is not complete posture! Some parts of body always remain unsettled on land, it may be hand, one leg or head! Means in prosture condition some parts not setteled on land. Its called as half prosture*
I
Daint will rule in half world and he will become so powerful that he wil forces to l surrendered any country. (Shrushti ne namavshe)) This is what pir want to give messege in above verses.
*The complete prostur in Yoga is SAWASAN prosture In this prosture complete body from head to tow completely rest on surface.

[junglikhan4]

Ejee, aradh aasan dait.....
Shrushti sagali namaveji...

as per my interpretation of above verses is : Daint (CHINA) will be become so powerfull that he will be concered half the world and will rules in those countries.( look towards his eyes he already took control in Tibet, and alao some parts of dozens of neighbors countries including India and Pakistan) I read in one magazine that China has Border and lands disputes with almost 24 different countries. That is amazing!

Aradh: means half , not complete.
Aasan: means prosture which body has to perform.

You may have notice that any prostur is not complete posture! Some parts of body always remain unsettled on land, it may be hand, one leg or head! Means in prosture condition some parts not setteled on land. Its called as half prosture*
I
Daint will rule in half world and he will become so powerful that he wil forces to l surrendered any country. (Shrushti ne namavshe)) This is what pir want to give messege in above verses.
*The complete prostur in Yoga is SAWASAN prosture In this prosture complete body from head to tow completely rest on surface.

In your China interpretation of above verses you are on the same page with late Missionary Abu Ali Saheb. In one of his waiz he mentiond China as Daet Kalingo, also in one other waiz he called communism as Kalingo and China is still communist country. I am against this China interpretation because the word China is not mentioned by pir Shams in this ginan. In 4th part of this ginan pir Shams has mentioned 40 lakh disciples of Kalingo, I don't think that every 3rd or 4th person in China is mureed of shaitan. What about rest of 6 billion population of world, are they pure in thought and actions?
Regarding control of resources of world, there are already big mafias who are controlling water, mineral, and agricultural crops. Think about Bio-products
without nutrition. In my opinion pir Shams has talked about those mafias who are disciples shaitan, whether they are countries or groups or individuals for monetary gains and have created a system of modern slavery.

[Admin]

I agree that there are many interpretations of Kalinga. Ginans mentions Chin Mah Chin. it can be China as Abualy said, it can be the river Chenab as Ivanow writes (though I doubt because he said he did not understand ginans).

It can be Monsanto or the US Federal Reserve Bank. Monsanto because they are going to make sure no one in the world can have a decent crop without their GMO and Federal Reserve Bank because it is a scam to ruin the world, it is neither federal nor has any reserve and I believe they probably killed President Kennedy because he opposed them.

The Monsanto hypothesis would be justified because the ginan said about Dait Kalinga "Ana naa parab chalaawche", mountains of food... an expression fit for Monsanto.

Monsanto buys governments to make sure the legislation allows their crooked products to enter into the country.

When you produce genetically modified grain that gives only one crop when God gives crop that renew itself every season, and you oblige people to buy more each year from you because you are a monopole, surely this category of Dait Kalinga fits you.

You can have GMO for the betterment of humanity like the renewable crop made by God which will soon disappear because of your non-renewable crop then it means you have chosen the use of GMO for the destruction of humanity.

[ismaili103]

In many Ginans Pir Said Daint Kalinga will come from Chinab Nagri, which means China.

Pir also said that DAINT( bigger evil force) will be Kalinga from Chinab Nagri and DANAV( lower than daint ) is Rubal Rajah. Rubal Rajah is Russia , at the time of Pir there was a King of Russia whose name was rubel, and now rubel is the currency of Russia.

Pir said Russia is Danav, now we can see Russia has also some communist, they are also creating insurgencies in world, by the way Russia has largest stockpile of Nukes, so it can create instability world, not now but definitely in future.

[Admin]

As far as we accept that those are interpretations influenced by what we are seeing around us, this is OK. In hundred years, people may interpret differently if the world change. For example if in a thousand years there is no Monsanto, no China, no Europe, no Russia and there is only one federation of united earth, the interpretation of Dait Kalingo will be different.

[agakhani_1]

The leader of China whoever it may be around 100 years from now you can call him :DAINT KALINGO" a devil forces against God in near future , you can also calln them "Daint Kalinga" as well as I have seen that some readers including Admin doesn't accept interpretation of an great Al-waez.

But I have many others proofs ( besides Al-waez's interpretation of DK and Ismaili ginans) from different sources which also point the fingers towards China, period
On and off I will put it here.

Admin has taken the meaning of 'PARAB' as mountain which is wrong.

[agakhani_1]

The meaning of the word 'PARAB' are as follows:-

1,Free Food feast for everyone.

2,water-hut or place on public road etc. for serving water to wayfarers and passengers free of charge

[ismaili103]

As far as we accept that those are interpretations influenced by what we are seeing around us, this is OK. In hundred years, people may interpret differently if the world change. For example if in a thousand years there is no Monsanto, no China, no Europe, no Russia and there is only one federation of united earth, the interpretation of Dait Kalingo will be different.

Many countries will be finished in future and many countries will be created, It can possible that China can also divided into ten different countries and then there will be no china, but the fact is the geography will remain the same, China is in Asia and it will remain in Asia in future. Pir is talking about Kalinga which will be everywhere in future but its headquater will be in a particular geography and that place according to Pir is Chinab Nagri( China is the old country and it has name China from centuries, Pir shams had also went to China).

So no matter whether a country remain or destroyed, the geography will never change.

BTW in 6 century there was a kingdom in southeast Asia which is know as Kalinga.

[Admin]

Admin has taken the meaning of 'PARAB' as mountain which is wrong.

Sorry I forgot that you have the monopole of wisdom.

Umed

[ismaili103]

PARBAT means Mountain

[Admin]

So no matter whether a country remain or destroyed, the geography will never change.

Actually it does with time.

India was in Africa where Madagascar is. Now it is part of Asia. All the continents move. geography does change.

Anyway lets come back to the proper subject of this thread.

[junglikhan4]

Is Iblees misguiding and misleading only human beings or is he active in animal, vegetative, mineral, and ginni worlds too?

[junglikhan4]

Human beings are victimized in playful game between God and Iblees.
Note some similarities;
God is unmarried, Iblees is also unmarried.
Smart enough, they do not want to raise families of their own, there fore no family headaches and family crisis, hence plenty of time to play.
Both God and Iblees do not work in 100+ degrees heat in factories or fields, they just give orders.
God has religious managers and Iblees also has its own evil managers.
God is pulling right arm and Iblees is pulling left arm and in between poor INSAAN IS RIPPED OFF.
On dooms day both will shake hands of each other. May be they will laugh,
MAATTI KA PUTLA TO BANAYA LEKIN ADAM KI AQAL GHUTNU ME RAKH CHHORI!!!
KOI BATLAOU HUM BATLAI(N) KIA!

[junglikhan4]

Are soul particles embedded or coded in sperm of man/woman?

[tret]

Human beings are victimized in playful game between God and Iblees.
Note some similarities;
God is unmarried, Iblees is also unmarried.
Smart enough, they do not want to raise families of their own, there fore no family headaches and family crisis, hence plenty of time to play.
Both God and Iblees do not work in 100+ degrees heat in factories or fields, they just give orders.
God has religious managers and Iblees also has its own evil managers.
God is pulling right arm and Iblees is pulling left arm and in between poor INSAAN IS RIPPED OFF.
On dooms day both will shake hands of each other. May be they will laugh,
MAATTI KA PUTLA TO BANAYA LEKIN ADAM KI AQAL GHUTNU ME RAKH CHHORI!!!
KOI BATLAOU HUM BATLAI(N) KIA!

Iblees [or evil] is due to imperfection of the soul. i.e. lack of light, is darkness. similarly, lack of good is evil.

According to Ismaili Doctrine, The Intellect is perfect in actuality; however, The Soul is perfect, only in potentiality. I don't believe an entity on its own exists as such. "Iblees" exists within each person, which is the lack of perfection within them.

[junglikhan4]

Human beings are victimized in playful game between God and Iblees.
Note some similarities;
God is unmarried, Iblees is also unmarried.
Smart enough, they do not want to raise families of their own, there fore no family headaches and family crisis, hence plenty of time to play.
Both God and Iblees do not work in 100+ degrees heat in factories or fields, they just give orders.
God has religious managers and Iblees also has its own evil managers.
God is pulling right arm and Iblees is pulling left arm and in between poor INSAAN IS RIPPED OFF.
On dooms day both will shake hands of each other. May be they will laugh,
MAATTI KA PUTLA TO BANAYA LEKIN ADAM KI AQAL GHUTNU ME RAKH CHHORI!!!
KOI BATLAOU HUM BATLAI(N) KIA!

Iblees [or evil] is due to imperfection of the soul. i.e. lack of light, is darkness. similarly, lack of good is evil.

According to Ismaili Doctrine, The Intellect is perfect in actuality; however, The Soul is perfect, only in potentiality. I don't believe an entity on its own exists as such. "Iblees" exists within each person, which is the lack of perfection within them.

There is story of Adam and Iblees in scriptures.
Iblees factor is attached to human soul. Iblees is subtle, not visible, not touchable. Is Iblees factor embedded in animals, trees, and flowers? Not every soul is perfect. When soul will depart from body, do Iblees depart with it and merge with Universal Soul?

[tret]

Human beings are victimized in playful game between God and Iblees.
Note some similarities;
God is unmarried, Iblees is also unmarried.
Smart enough, they do not want to raise families of their own, there fore no family headaches and family crisis, hence plenty of time to play.
Both God and Iblees do not work in 100+ degrees heat in factories or fields, they just give orders.
God has religious managers and Iblees also has its own evil managers.
God is pulling right arm and Iblees is pulling left arm and in between poor INSAAN IS RIPPED OFF.
On dooms day both will shake hands of each other. May be they will laugh,
MAATTI KA PUTLA TO BANAYA LEKIN ADAM KI AQAL GHUTNU ME RAKH CHHORI!!!
KOI BATLAOU HUM BATLAI(N) KIA!

Iblees [or evil] is due to imperfection of the soul. i.e. lack of light, is darkness. similarly, lack of good is evil.

According to Ismaili Doctrine, The Intellect is perfect in actuality; however, The Soul is perfect, only in potentiality. I don't believe an entity on its own exists as such. "Iblees" exists within each person, which is the lack of perfection within them.

There is story of Adam and Iblees in scriptures.
Iblees factor is attached to human soul. Iblees is subtle, not visible, not touchable. Is Iblees factor embedded in animals, trees, and flowers? Not every soul is perfect. When soul will depart from body, do Iblees depart with it and merge with Universal Soul?

Please re-read what I posted. Evil [Iblees] is absence of good, due to imperfection of soul. There's no entity as Iblees.

You know the parables in the Qur'an has a deeper ta'wil and should not be taken literally.

[junglikhan4]

Iblees [or evil] is due to imperfection of the soul. i.e. lack of light, is darkness. similarly, lack of good is evil.

According to Ismaili Doctrine, The Intellect is perfect in actuality; however, The Soul is perfect, only in potentiality. I don't believe an entity on its own exists as such. "Iblees" exists within each person, which is the lack of perfection within them.

There is story of Adam and Iblees in scriptures.
Iblees factor is attached to human soul. Iblees is subtle, not visible, not touchable. Is Iblees factor embedded in animals, trees, and flowers? Not every soul is perfect. When soul will depart from body, do Iblees depart with it and merge with Universal Soul?

Please re-read what I posted. Evil [Iblees] is absence of good, due to imperfection of soul. There's no entity as Iblees.

You know the parables in the Qur'an has a deeper ta'wil and should not be taken literally.

Quran says," WA HADAINAHUN NAJDAIN ", means we have given guidance
'hidayat' of both ways, means right and wrong. This capability is embedded in human beings. Musa and Feroun are within, Ahoramazda and Ahermon are within, it depends on human being to decide which way he/she has to go.
No doubt Quran mostly speaks in parables, but personalities it speaks are in real, like Prophets Moses, David, Muhammad pbuh. same way Iblees is also a real entity. He is mentioned in holy scriptures. The story of Adam and Iblees is accepted by 4+ billion people on surface of earth. Either we say story is wrong or fabricated or accept as it is. I have been writing my views based on story.

[Admin]

There are also countless interpretations of the story of Adam and Eve. I suggest you go back to read the Ismaili interpretation of the fall of Adam on the following link:

B S O S,
VOLUME IX: 1937-39.
An Ismaili Interpretation of the Fall of Adam
By Bernard Lewis

http://www.ismaili.net/Source/0836.html