no mention of shiva in ginans.

[zznoor]

If Allah can be "Al Mumit", Al Jabbar, Al Darr, Al Kabej, Al Gafeth, Al Kahhar! Then why not imam can not be a destroyer? After all he is holder of Allah“s Noor!

With all due respect only Ismailis believe MHI holds Allah's Noor. For rest of Muslim he is another Muslim.

[zznoor]

Please read this On Noor

Is Allah Noor and prophet was made of Noor
(http://therealislam1.wordpress.com/2009 ... e-of-noor/)


Prophet Muhammad is a Human (Bashar), His Noor means his Guidance
(http://www.alsunna.org/forum/index.php? ... 673#msg673)

Dodgy Noor connection
(http://therealislam1.wordpress.com/2011 ... onnection/)

[agakhani]

With all due respect only Ismailis believe MHI holds Allah's Noor. For rest of Muslim he is another Muslim.

Before I go further in detail, answer me this , where is your Allah? why he is hiding from Human binge? have you seen him? have any one ( specially your mentor) has ever seen him? because he is no where except .......
Don't worry your Allah has been disappeared and sleeping till the day of Qayama! after giving all charges to our Imam !!!! so for now our Imam is Allah for you, for me and for every Kayenats on this earth.


where was your Allah when bomb explodeed and killed thousand and thousand innocent peoples in Shia Muslims mosque?

Where was your Allah when thousand and thousand pilgrimage killed while doing Hajj ceremony in Macca? where was he? is he deaf? is he blind? so that he can not hear or see any thing on this earth, I guess he get old on need to retired!! he needs rest so let him rest till the day of Kayamat which will never going to happen. period, and your Allah will not come in light never ever.

As long we Ismailis are concern! yes and yes, we have seen Allah not only by me but many others too and off course there are some unfortunate peoples same like you ZZNoor ! who through away that golden opportunity to see him as an Allah in form of our present Imam, as long as you are concern yes, you have been lost , being an Ismaili first and left for Sunnism and wondering in GUMRAHI!! you went back 1400 !! in that dark age when other Muslims were before in gumrahi sp, come out and watch your self they are same Mullahs, Molwis who are still giving wrong fatwas every other day and almost every thing even watching TV! watching wrestling! and much more to come since you wake me up. I will not let you go, wait more to come.

[kmaherali]

Please do not turn to Allah in case he is too busy instructing his Jokey about how to run race.

I think you meant the Imam and not Allah. In any case of course the Imams role is not restricted to the masjid and giving fatwas. It encompasses all aspects of life including horses and other animals and plants.

[kmaherali]

for Muslims it is only Allah. Those who worship human beings or Taguts are not real Muslims.

The Qur'an Majeed tells us that the Hujjat and the Manifest Light has been sent. It is far safe and efficient to deal with something that is manifest and known than the unknowable and undescribable. Without knowledge and recognition of the Mazhar, one walks in darkness and confusion.

[Admin]

for Muslims it is only Allah. Those who worship human beings or Taguts are not real Muslims.

Thanks God, ismailis do not worship human beings of black stones...

They only worship the Noor, The LIGHT.

Light upon Light.....

[agakhani]

The other day I was reading a article on "Black Stone" articles says that Blackstone is a Shiva's lingam and it was there since Buddha' time and Buddhist were worshiping even before Islam born!! The author claimed that Muslims has learned "worshiping "Blackstone" from Buddhist!! he also claimed many rituals Muslims are still performing during their HaJJ! are came straight from Buddhist and Hindus rituals !!

Below are few lines from that article: interesting readers can read more clicking the link below:

Long before Islam came in to existence, Kaaba, in Mecca in Saudi Arabia was a pilgrimage site. The word Kaaba might have come from the Tamil Language which originated around 1700BC. In Tamil Nadu Kabaalishwaran temple is Lord Shiva's temple and Kabaali refers to Lord Shiva. The black stone at Kaaba is held sacred and holy in Islam and is called "Hajre Aswad" from the Sanskrit word Sanghey Ashweta or Non-white stone. The Shiva Lingam is also called Sanghey Ashweta. So what is in Kaaba could be the same what Hindus worship. The pedestal Maqam-E-Ibrahim at the centre of the Kaaba is octagonal in shape. In Hinduism, the pedestal of Brahma the creator is also octagonal in shape. Muslim pilgrims visiting the Kaaba temple go around it seven times. In no other mosque does the circumambulation prevail. Hindus invariably circumambulate or Pradakshina, around their deities. This is yet another proof that the Kaaba shrine is a pre-Islamic.

http://www.quora.com/Is-Kaaba-in-Mecca- ... iva-Lingam

Thanks God, ismailis do not worship human beings of black stones...

I heard that Muslim pilgrimages also worshiping Hajare Aswad!! and go around seven times of that Black Stone?/
Is not worshiping any things are prohibited in Islam?

[zznoor]

for Muslims it is only Allah. Those who worship human beings or Taguts are not real Muslims.

Thanks God, ismailis do not worship human beings of black stones...

They only worship the Noor, The LIGHT.

Light upon Light.....

I am amazed.
Educated person like Admin still think that The Muslim worship Black stone.
Do some search and find out real meaning of Hujj. Since Ismailis do not believe in Salat, swam and Hujj, no sense in educating them.

[Admin]

I am amazed.
Educated person like Admin still think that The Muslim worship Black stone.
Do some search and find out real meaning of Hujj. Since Ismailis do not believe in Salat, swam and Hujj, no sense in educating them.

So what are you doing here?

[zznoor]

Admin still believes "Ali" is one of Allah's name.

Do Muslims Worship the Kaaba?

In Islam, every single act of worship must be directed to God alone, and the greatest sin in Islam is to direct even the tiniest part of worship to other than God. It is not allowed for a Muslim to have any kind of intermediary with God in worship, whether a living being, or an inanimate object. Muslims pray to Allah – Almighty God – alone, and they do not take things either as direct objects of worship, or indirect objects of worship through which God’s help is sought.

The Ka’bah (also spelt Kaaba) is a mosque – a Muslim place of worship, built by the Prophet Ibrahim (Abraham), and before him by Adam, the Father of Mankind. It serves as a place of prayer, and the direction which every single Muslim around the world faces to pray. It also plays a critical role in the greater and lesser pilgrimages of Hajj and ‘Umrah, as the structure which Muslims circle around. Allah informs us about the Ka’bah in the Qur’an, saying:

“And [mention, O Muhammad], when We showed Abraham the site of the House (i.e., the Ka’bah), [saying], “Do not associate anything with Me and purify My House for those who circumambulate it, and those who stand [in prayer], and those who bow and prostrate.” [The Qur’an: al-Hajj 22:26]

In all of these roles, the Ka’bah is simply a place for worshipping God, and a focal point of that worship, and it does not represent an object of worship itself or an intermediary through which God’s help is sought. This is clearly illustrated by the action of ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab, the second most senior and learned of the companions of the Prophet (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), when he approached the Black Stone, mounted in the eastern corner of the Ka’bah, saying:

“No doubt, I know that you are only a stone and can neither benefit nor harm anyone. If I had not seen Allah’s Messenger kissing you I would not have kissed you.” Saheeh al-Bukhari


Please read it before you delete it.
Some people just do not want to open eyes

[zznoor]

Please do not turn to Allah in case he is too busy instructing his Jokey about how to run race.

I think you meant the Imam and not Allah. In any case of course the Imams role is not restricted to the masjid and giving fatwas. It encompasses all aspects of life including horses and other animals and plants.

So when he is busy doing worldly chores, who processes requests for help and forgiving sins?

[zznoor]

The other day I was reading a article on "Black Stone" articles says that Blackstone is a Shiva's lingam and it was there since Buddha' time and Buddhist were worshiping even before Islam born!! The author claimed that Muslims has learned "worshiping "Blackstone" from Buddhist!! he also claimed many rituals Muslims are still performing during their HaJJ! are came straight from Buddhist and Hindus rituals !!

Below are few lines from that article: interesting readers can read more clicking the link below:

Long before Islam came in to existence, Kaaba, in Mecca in Saudi Arabia was a pilgrimage site. The word Kaaba might have come from the Tamil Language which originated around 1700BC. In Tamil Nadu Kabaalishwaran temple is Lord Shiva's temple and Kabaali refers to Lord Shiva. The black stone at Kaaba is held sacred and holy in Islam and is called "Hajre Aswad" from the Sanskrit word Sanghey Ashweta or Non-white stone. The Shiva Lingam is also called Sanghey Ashweta. So what is in Kaaba could be the same what Hindus worship. The pedestal Maqam-E-Ibrahim at the centre of the Kaaba is octagonal in shape. In Hinduism, the pedestal of Brahma the creator is also octagonal in shape. Muslim pilgrims visiting the Kaaba temple go around it seven times. In no other mosque does the circumambulation prevail. Hindus invariably circumambulate or Pradakshina, around their deities. This is yet another proof that the Kaaba shrine is a pre-Islamic.

http://www.quora.com/Is-Kaaba-in-Mecca- ... iva-Lingam

Thanks God, ismailis do not worship human beings of black stones...

I heard that Muslim pilgrimages also worshiping Hajare Aswad!! and go around seven times of that Black Stone?/
Is not worshiping any things are prohibited in Islam?

There is all kind of garbage on net. You will be better off just searching " Do Muslim worship Kaaba"
Use your Ph D little bit.

[kmaherali]

So when he is busy doing worldly chores, who processes requests for help and forgiving sins?

There is a vast difference between him and another human being. We are tiny drops in a vast ocean, whereas be is a vast ocean in a tiny drop. He is the Lord of the worlds and therefore he can simultaneously be aware of infinite occurencies all at once. Indeed he can also be at multiple places physically at the same time.
He multitasks in a big manner!

[kmaherali]

In Islam, every single act of worship must be directed to God alone, and the greatest sin in Islam is to direct even the tiniest part of worship to other than God. It is not allowed for a Muslim to have any kind of intermediary with God in worship, whether a living being, or an inanimate object.

You said you were a Shia at one time. Have you changed your mind? The Shias believe that the Prophet and the Imams have a special relationship with God and their intercession is accepted.

[nuseri]

To zznoor:Ya Ali Madad.
As you are fairly educated from an ivy league.I feel that you are more qualified than the mullahs,alims n quack who did tafseer of the holy book.

You posted an ayat earlier which says
Everything that evolves belongs to Allah.

1400 years have gone can you explain those 6 words?

Your reply on this is very important and I am sure once you reply ,many members will learn from you n participate with their pov.
When you explain be true to yourself,one cannot play around with the words of GOD/ALI .

[zznoor]

In Islam, every single act of worship must be directed to God alone, and the greatest sin in Islam is to direct even the tiniest part of worship to other than God. It is not allowed for a Muslim to have any kind of intermediary with God in worship, whether a living being, or an inanimate object.

You said you were a Shia at one time. Have you changed your mind? The Shias believe that the Prophet and the Imams have a special relationship with God and their intercession is accepted.

It is oblivious, I believe in what you copied. Prophet is dead and as per Hadith he will ask Allah to intercede on the behalf of his Ummah, but there is big if and that is " If Allah permits".

[kmaherali]

It is oblivious, I believe in what you copied. Prophet is dead and as per Hadith he will ask Allah to intercede on the behalf of his Ummah, but there is big if and that is " If Allah permits".

Allah says in the Qur'an Majid (4:59): O you who believe, obey Allah and obey the Apostle and obey the holders of Authority from amongst you.

If Allah permits the holders of Authority to guide his people on his behalf, don't you think he will permit their intercession as well?

[mazhar]

It is oblivious, I believe in what you copied. Prophet is dead and as per Hadith he will ask Allah to intercede on the behalf of his Ummah, but there is big if and that is " If Allah permits".

Allah says in the Qur'an Majid (4:59): O you who believe, obey Allah and obey the Apostle and obey the holders of Authority from amongst you.

If Allah permits the holders of Authority to guide his people on his behalf, don't you think he will permit their intercession as well?

To Kmaherali,

With ref to Al Quran 4:59, we Ismailis believe in Ulil Amar and must have to obey him but it is not happening. Mostly we obey selected Farmans. Example is 1964 Farman, which I posted where Imam said Ali is from Allah. I did not made this Farman nor I cheated. Imam as intercessor is mentioned in Du'a "Allahuma bi haqqi", we Pray to Allah invoking name of Imam as intercessor and requesting Allah humbly that on behalf of Imam and ahl bait mushkal aasan kar. Every jamaiti should understand the literal meaning of Du'a. Jamait is not explained the meaning of Du'a properly, they have been told twisted meanings to fit in khoja ideology. In Karachi, RC students and youngisters now well versed in Arabic are asking hard questions. Need will and courage to face them.

[mazhar]

The other day I was reading a article on "Black Stone" articles says that Blackstone is a Shiva's lingam and it was there since Buddha' time and Buddhist were worshiping even before Islam born!! The author claimed that Muslims has learned "worshiping "Blackstone" from Buddhist!! he also claimed many rituals Muslims are still performing during their HaJJ! are came straight from Buddhist and Hindus rituals !!

Below are few lines from that article: interesting readers can read more clicking the link below:

Long before Islam came in to existence, Kaaba, in Mecca in Saudi Arabia was a pilgrimage site. The word Kaaba might have come from the Tamil Language which originated around 1700BC. In Tamil Nadu Kabaalishwaran temple is Lord Shiva's temple and Kabaali refers to Lord Shiva. The black stone at Kaaba is held sacred and holy in Islam and is called "Hajre Aswad" from the Sanskrit word Sanghey Ashweta or Non-white stone. The Shiva Lingam is also called Sanghey Ashweta. So what is in Kaaba could be the same what Hindus worship. The pedestal Maqam-E-Ibrahim at the centre of the Kaaba is octagonal in shape. In Hinduism, the pedestal of Brahma the creator is also octagonal in shape. Muslim pilgrims visiting the Kaaba temple go around it seven times. In no other mosque does the circumambulation prevail. Hindus invariably circumambulate or Pradakshina, around their deities. This is yet another proof that the Kaaba shrine is a pre-Islamic.

http://www.quora.com/Is-Kaaba-in-Mecca- ... iva-Lingam

Thanks God, ismailis do not worship human beings of black stones...

I heard that Muslim pilgrimages also worshiping Hajare Aswad!! and go around seven times of that Black Stone?/
Is not worshiping any things are prohibited in Islam?

Reply to Aghakhani,

I have explained to you before that Ismailis in India and Pakistan are called Agakhanis and your ID as a fake name on Ismaili heritage is creating problems in Pak. There are repercussions and if there is fire you will feel smoke too. You keep posting without thinking. The recent example is of Shiva, lingam and black stone. What message are you delivering to Muslim world? Aghakhani you are first muslim, than Ismaili, and than khoja.

Kaaba is there since 3000BC at time of prophet Ibrahim and not 1700BC.
You are comparing Hajr e Aswad ( black stone ) with Shiva's Lingam.
Read history, Hajr e Aswad was kissed by Prophet (whom khoja call pir ),
Also same black stone was kissed by my Imam ( your God ) Mowla Ali, Hazrat Hasan, Imam Hussain, Imam Ali, Imam Baqir, and Imam, Ja'far during Hajj. What you have to say about that?
Aghakhani, I asked you and Kmaherali twice same question of Shiva's lingam, because you people claim that Imam has qualities and attributes of Shiva, but both of you did not reply and ducked down. Let me ask you and Km once again, " Do khoja worship LINGAM of shiva?" As you equate Imam to Shiva.

[kmaherali]

To Kmaherali,

With ref to Al Quran 4:59, we Ismailis believe in Ulil Amar and must have to obey him but it is not happening. Mostly we obey selected Farmans. Example is 1964 Farman, which I posted where Imam said Ali is from Allah. I did not made this Farman nor I cheated. Imam as intercessor is mentioned in Du'a "Allahuma bi haqqi", we Pray to Allah invoking name of Imam as intercessor and requesting Allah humbly that on behalf of Imam and ahl bait mushkal aasan kar. Every jamaiti should understand the literal meaning of Du'a. Jamait is not explained the meaning of Du'a properly, they have been told twisted meanings to fit in khoja ideology. In Karachi, RC students and youngisters now well versed in Arabic are asking hard questions. Need will and courage to face them.

Mazhar,
We are obeying the Imam. In our tradition the Imam is both the Shah and Pir. In the role of Shah he is the Mazhar of Allah and performs that role just as Allah does as mentioned in the Qur'an, for example, verse 2:255. Hence we pray to him in Du'a Guzari.
In the role of the Pir he performs the role as the intercessor which you allude to.
When trying to understand our faith you must consider all aspects of our faith and not just Du'a. We have Ginans and Qasidas as well. Also as indicated to you before, we have other Farmans besides the 1964 statement that you keep mentioning as if that is the only statement made by the Imam on the subject.
It is good that our youth are asking questions. They will get the right answers based on our traditions.

[mazhar]

To Kmaherali,

Just pop up on my screen post about princess Tajudowla's demise on Friday april 25, 1997. Imam's message surprised me. This message was sent to all Ismaili jamaits all over world and this was private Talika.
The words of HI, I quote were," With ALLAH'S blessings her passing away was peaceful." My question is, was princess Tajudowala Ismaili till end, and in what capacity Imam used the words,'Allahs blessings' as SHAH or PIR?

[zznoor]

POST BY ZZNOOR

Edited by Admin

We are going to be very strict. Any post which does not fit into the title of the thread will be edited or deleted. Please everyone stop trowing in all kind of unrelated subjects. We have thousands of threads and it is not possible to discuss everything here.

if you post on the thread with posting related to the trad, your post wil not be deleted. This is valid for each and everyone

admin

[ismaili103]

To Kmaherali,

Just pop up on my screen post about princess Tajudowla's demise on Friday april 25, 1997. Imam's message surprised me. This message was sent to all Ismaili jamaits all over world and this was private Talika.
The words of HI, I quote were," With ALLAH'S blessings her passing away was peaceful." My question is, was princess Tajudowala Ismaili till end, and in what capacity Imam used the words,'Allahs blessings' as SHAH or PIR?

Every sayings by the Imam to the Jammat is always as pir. Farman, Talika etc.

E.g. Imam( Allah) give guidance to Pir( Muhammad) , and Pir interprate it to the jammat. And that guidance was Quran.

I know the word Imam( Allah) will annoying you , but there is famous idiom. SACH KARWA HOTA HAI.

[kmaherali]

The words of HI, I quote were," With ALLAH'S blessings her passing away was peaceful." My question is, was princess Tajudowala Ismaili till end, and in what capacity Imam used the words,'Allahs blessings' as SHAH or PIR?

To my knowledge, she did not become an Ismaili, though she was involved in the runniing of various Imamat institutions. Talikas are dlievered as a PIR though sometimes he gives blessings as Imam and Pir as well - Paternal and Maternal blessings.

[kmaherali]

E.g. Imam( Allah) give guidance to Pir( Muhammad) , and Pir interprate it to the jammat. And that guidance was Quran.

There is a phrase "Imam nu Bol, Pir nu Vachan" which means the command is from the Imam and the Pir interprets the command and gives his guidance to the Jamat.

[kmaherali]

Aghakhani, I asked you and Kmaherali twice same question of Shiva's lingam, because you people claim that Imam has qualities and attributes of Shiva, but both of you did not reply and ducked down. Let me ask you and Km once again, " Do khoja worship LINGAM of shiva?" As you equate Imam to Shiva.

I think I answered the question before. Imam can assume any negative qualities as well to get his work done. I gave an example of Lord Krishna as a child plundering the butter/cheese of the Gopis, the reason given is to remove the greed in them.

Please clarify, what is your understanding of Lingam of Shiva?

One explanation that I read about Linga/ Shiva states;

.The Linga is like an egg, and represents the 'Brahmanda' or the cosmic egg. Linga signifies that the creation is effected by the union of 'Prakriti' and 'Purusha,' the male and the female powers of Nature. Linga also signifies 'Satya,' 'Jnana' and 'Ananta' - Truth, knowledge and Infinity.

What is wrong with that?

[agakhani]

What message are you delivering to Muslim world? Aghakhani you are first muslim, than Ismaili, and than khoja

My message is very simple to bring some thing new and interesting in this thread which is not known or hidden to be believe it or not its readers choice.
now let me ask you what is wrong to post that article on Shiva and about Shiva's ling is not this thread is about Shiva?
BTW: it was author's POV it doesn't mean it is 100% true and I believe it too and it doesn't mean everybody has to accept it.

FYI: I am not Khoja but I am Momna ( Momin ) by birth which I have declared many times in my previous posts and Khoja and Momnas have many things in common.

" Do khoja worship LINGAM of shiva?" As you equate Imam to Shiva.

No, we never did it and our none of any pir never ever preached us to worship any idols