Ismailism influenced by Greek philosophy.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:11 pm

Shinan,
Please do not disclous your physical address to any one specially to Mazhar and ......!
You know whom I point out.
Any question shoot me a mail.
Do not meet any one this is a bottom line urfe border line for you, inshaallah I will meet you personally and will answer which you had asked me long time ago, what is Karan and kalap? I haven't forget that.

mazhar · Post by **mazhar** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:51 pm

agakhani wrote:Shinan,
Please do not disclous your physical address to any one specially to Mazhar and ......!
You know whom I point out.
Any question shoot me a mail.
Do not meet any one this is a bottom line urfe border line for you, inshaallah I will meet you personally and will answer which you had asked me long time ago, what is Karan and kalap? I haven't forget that.

Reply to Aghakhani,

Kaka, chhokra ney shukamey darawo chho. Hu(n) piyar sathey waat karees.

mazhar · Post by **mazhar** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:57 pm

agakhani wrote:Why don't you ask me Mazahar about that farmans in which Imam Ali Shahh had told that before the zahoorat 40000 thousands Mullahs will be killed!
Yes I do have that farman , date and place.
But what would you do that info when you do not have any trust on any farman!

Reply to Aghakhani,

Already 40,000 mullahs are killed in AFGH. and in Pak. during 12 year war. Where is your ZAHURAAT, still you are waiting for 40,000 more!!

mazhar · Post by **mazhar** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:29 pm

Admin wrote:
agakhani wrote:Why don't you ask me Mazahar about that farmans in which Imam Ali Shahh had told that before the zahoorat 40000 thousands Mullahs will be killed!
Yes I do have that farman , date and place.
But what would you do that info when you do not have any trust on any farman!
I can understand Mazhar. He has been poisoned with papers which he was told are Farmans. He is probably innocent enough to have believed whoever gave him these papers. I don't think he is aware of the conscious effort done by a group of people since the last 50 years to turn our Ismaili faith into Sunnism. These people have cleverly taken advantage of the autonomy given to institutions by the Imam which they have infiltrated. One case in point was Akbar Mehirnali who was once leader in one of our institution in Pakistan and for whom at least 2 Saudi cheques copy were found to have been paid to him.

Once I post the papers that Mazhar genuinely believed to be Farmans because he was told so by people he trusted, you will understand what I mean. His whole thinking has been directed in the wrong direction so I believe the only think remaining is for him to have access to real Farmans so he can come back to what Ismailism is really all about.

The four pillars attacked by that group actually since Pakistan independence was Dasond, Dua, Ginans and Ali-Allah. Not only false documents were prepared, Wahabi money even poured in to influence the outcome of the battle. There is a whole part of Ismaili History to be written for the second half of the 20th Century. Inshallah some day it will be done.

Dear Admin,

Let me honest with you people. Personally my thinking is not Shia or Sunni. I am an Ismaili, follower of Hazar Imam. I believe obey the Farman of present Imam. I am not a mercenary. I do not belong to any group, I am a free lancer. Long before receiving 1964 Farman which was given to me by a respectable person of jamait, I had already made up my mind that HI is not God. Primarily I was influenced by our Du'a. As I know little Arabic, I tried to understand meaning of Du'a. Few important words and phrases influenced me a lot. The words " BI HAQQI" and " ALIULLAH"
I came to conclusion that Imam is intercessor, Wasila, or Zariya.
Other things which influenced me are,
1. First Du'a.
2. Articles of Preamble.
3. 1975 Paris conference.
4. Clearification by AIGLEMONT on article published by Time magazine in Issue of Dec, 1983 that Aga Khan is Living God, and affirmation of Kalma Shahadah.
5. Imam's frequent usage of words like, Inshallah, AlHamdulillah during Didars and in Talikas.
6. Interviews.
7. Finally 1964 Farman of Ali is from Allah. I confirmed this Farman from other senior members ( not missionary Kassim Ali Saheb).
HAZAR IMAM IS EVERY THING FOR ME BUT NOT ALLAH.
Please do not delete.

Post by **Admin** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:23 pm

As I said, I believe that you have been misled for long enough that you have built your own Truth far away from what the Imam has said many a time.

here is the alleged "Farman" you have sent me. it is supposed to prove Ali is not Allah. iIasked you to send the document entirely or the first and last page so we can know whole personal note it is but unfortunately you have declined to do. I respect your decision.

This of course is NOT Farman. But you also are free to believe whatever you want to believe, There is no compulsion in faith.

But from internal evidence, if you say this is a Farman, you have to say also that imam is lying. because if you see the beginning, it say this is what Sultan Muhammad Shah said, which is not true. We have genuine Farmans of Sultan Muhammad Shah on Ali Allah. So whoever circulated this piece of sheet (yet, I wrote it with double "ee" - I am polite) to you wanted not only to discredit this present Imam but also the previous.

I also suggest that if you want to read the first paragraph, you may want to read the paragraph below and draw some conclusions by yourself.

ismaili103 · Post by **ismaili103** » Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:30 am

mazhar wrote:
agakhani wrote:Why don't you ask me Mazahar about that farmans in which Imam Ali Shahh had told that before the zahoorat 40000 thousands Mullahs will be killed!
Yes I do have that farman , date and place.
But what would you do that info when you do not have any trust on any farman!
Reply to Aghakhani,

Already 40,000 mullahs are killed in AFGH. and in Pak. during 12 year war. Where is your ZAHURAAT, still you are waiting for 40,000 more!!

So Far your believes;

Did not believe in GINANS
Did not believe in PIRS
DId not believe in Ali Allah
". ". Imams Farman
". ". Zahoorat( as you wrote above ," where is YOUR Zahoorat, the word Your says everything.

I thing Admin you should delete that Munafiq's account.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:46 am

This of course is NOT Farman. But you also are free to believe whatever you want to believe, There is no compulsion in faith.

Admin,
Do you have original script of above farman sent by Mazhar to you? I would like to read that one too if you kindly put it here or PM, I looked in Kalam'E-Mowla but I couldn't find above farman any where that is strange!!!

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:12 am

Already 40,000 mullahs are killed in AFGH. and in Pak. during 12 year war. Where is your ZAHURAAT, still you are waiting for 40,000 more!!

Those Mullah who got killed in Afghan wars and in Pak were just a appetizer in starting , the real menu still has to come! and it will be not ready till next century.

FYI: Imam Ali Shah has clearly mentioned in his that farmans that; 40.000 mullahs will be killed between Mecca and Medina cities ( he has not mentioned Afghan or Pakistan at all) and then after Zahoorat will began!

Post by **Admin** » Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:43 am

The thread here is

Ismailism influenced by Greek philosophy.

Please stick to this subject.

iIsee Nuseri, Mazhar, Agakhani, andsome other people always posting on the same subjects regardless of the thread. This is just not acceptable. If you all want, I can open a thread saying "anything anytime" and you can all kill each other in this thread for the rest of your lives by mixing any subject all the time without me interfering. How does this proposal sound?

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:08 pm

iIsee Nuseri, Mazhar, Agakhani, andsome other people always posting on the same subjects regardless of the thread.

As long as I am concern then You should also think that! I only answer, if some one ask, raise a question or put wrong information on any subject, first they are starting it and I just reply them. for quick example Mazhar wrote
"Already 40,000 mullahs are killed in AFGH. and in Pak. during 12 year war. Where is your ZAHURAAT, still you are waiting for 40,000 more!!"
I just corrected him giving right answer! it does not mean I started or mix up the thread!!!
Think this bro, if he would not have asked or put wrong information on 40000 mullahs then I would not have replied him!! Usually I do not open new thread like other dudes in this forum are doing every other days!!
This is just for your kind information.

mazhar · Post by **mazhar** » Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:22 pm

Admin wrote:As I said, I believe that you have been misled for long enough that you have built your own Truth far away from what the Imam has said many a time.

here is the alleged "Farman" you have sent me. it is supposed to prove Ali is not Allah. iIasked you to send the document entirely or the first and last page so we can know whole personal note it is but unfortunately you have declined to do. I respect your decision.

This of course is NOT Farman. But you also are free to believe whatever you want to believe, There is no compulsion in faith.

But from internal evidence, if you say this is a Farman, you have to say also that imam is lying. because if you see the beginning, it say this is what Sultan Muhammad Shah said, which is not true. We have genuine Farmans of Sultan Muhammad Shah on Ali Allah. So whoever circulated this piece of sheet (yet, I wrote it with double "ee" - I am polite) to you wanted not only to discredit this present Imam but also the previous.

I also suggest that if you want to read the first paragraph, you may want to read the paragraph below and draw some conclusions by yourself.

Reply to Admin.

Dear Sir,

You suggested me to read the paragraph below ie, 2nd Paragraph, my question is why you did not posted the 3rd paragraph explained by HI regarding " KUL HUWALLAHU AHAD." You deliberately ommited the 3rd paragraph. This is not honesty. I asked you to post whole page. Is that 3rd paragraph also fake? You are the advocator of this belief that present Imam's Farman superseds the previous Imam's Farman. Is this your statement correct or not? You are a highly educated and descent person how come you keep loosing your temprament, you wrote and I quote," This piece of sheet ( yet I wrote it with double ee). WHY DON'T YOU E-MAIL MY COMPLETE PAGE TO ITREB KARACHI, AND REQUEST THEM TO CONFIRM THIS CLASSIFIED FARMAN; LET THEM LOOK INTO CLASSIFIED MATERIAL AND CONFIRM YOU. IF MISSIONARY KASSIM ALI CROSSED HIH LIMITS WHY NOT IMAM FIRED HIM.

mazhar · Post by **mazhar** » Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:43 pm

ismaili103 wrote:
mazhar wrote:
agakhani wrote:Why don't you ask me Mazahar about that farmans in which Imam Ali Shahh had told that before the zahoorat 40000 thousands Mullahs will be killed!
Yes I do have that farman , date and place.
But what would you do that info when you do not have any trust on any farman!
Reply to Aghakhani,

Already 40,000 mullahs are killed in AFGH. and in Pak. during 12 year war. Where is your ZAHURAAT, still you are waiting for 40,000 more!!
So Far your believes;

Did not believe in GINANS
Did not believe in PIRS
DId not believe in Ali Allah
". ". Imams Farman
". ". Zahoorat( as you wrote above ," where is YOUR Zahoorat, the word Your says everything.

I thing Admin you should delete that Munafiq's account.

Reply to Ismaili103,

Qurban e shuma, deekra, kiyarey money Munafiq, kiyarey Kafir, kiyarey Dalal bolawo chho. Kaei(n) wando nathi. MON AANIM KE MON DANIM.
Kid, I do respect pirs, ginans and Farmans. I do not want your certificate.
I have seen, you chacha and bhatija post one after other good connection.
Keep it up.

mazhar · Post by **mazhar** » Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:52 pm

agakhani wrote:
This of course is NOT Farman. But you also are free to believe whatever you want to believe, There is no compulsion in faith.
Admin,
Do you have original script of above farman sent by Mazhar to you? I would like to read that one too if you kindly put it here or PM, I looked in Kalam'E-Mowla but I couldn't find above farman any where that is strange!!!

Reply to Aghakhani,

Kaka, Kalam i Mowla nathi, Kalam i Imam e Mubin chhey. Hosh khowai gaya chhe. Hota hai, Hota hai; Piyar me aisa hota hai.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:07 pm

Admin,
Do you see any informative things in above two posts of Mazahar"? Which I missed it ? If not then why have you not deleted yet.? Just curious

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:17 pm

Mazhar

I came to conclusion that Imam is intercessor, Wasila, or Zariya.

Imam is intercessor, Wasila, or Zariya.

This will happen only if one requests Imam in person

on the day of judgement
Only if Allah permits it

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:20 pm

Mazhar

I came to conclusion that Imam is intercessor, Wasila, or Zariya.

Imam is intercessor, Wasila, or Zariya.

This will happen only if one requests Imam in person

on the day of judgement
Only if Allah permits it

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:15 am

zznoor wrote:Mazhar
I came to conclusion that Imam is intercessor, Wasila, or Zariya.
Imam is intercessor, Wasila, or Zariya.

This will happen only if one requests Imam in person

on the day of judgement
Only if Allah permits it

Once the Mursheed accepts someone as his murid, then automatically Allah accepts the intercession. The Mursheed who is Fanna himself is one with Allah.

mazhar · Post by **mazhar** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:04 pm

kmaherali wrote:
zznoor wrote:Mazhar
I came to conclusion that Imam is intercessor, Wasila, or Zariya.
Imam is intercessor, Wasila, or Zariya.

This will happen only if one requests Imam in person

on the day of judgement
Only if Allah permits it
Once the Mursheed accepts someone as his murid, then automatically Allah accepts the intercession. The Mursheed who is Fanna himself is one with Allah.

Reply to Kmaherali,

If Kmaherali is fana fi Allah, can he call himself Allah.

ismaili103 · Post by **ismaili103** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:31 pm

If Kmaherali is fana fi Allah, can he call himself Allah.

Yes, Indeed, be shak, yaqeenan.

Mowla Ali says;

" The one who recognizes himself, recognizes God. " ( not exact words)

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:55 pm

There were many example during SMS time and he used to ask some bhagat about their progress In Ibadat, Once he asked JUMA Bhagat how do you feel during bandgi?
Juma Bhagat replied "TO JO SUKAR AAHE"
No Bhagat! tell me what you really see in Bandgi?
Mowla are you really wants to know?
MSM told : yes! go ahead

Bhagat replied : "DURING "BANDGI" I AM SEEING MY SELF AS SULTAN A MOHAMMAD SHAH! Mowla replied that is true.

So, basically that is what happens when some one get progress in Bandgi he/she doesn't see any difference between him and Allah like Mansoor Al Haalaz and many other sufis did before.

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:15 pm

kmaherali wrote:
zznoor wrote:Mazhar
I came to conclusion that Imam is intercessor, Wasila, or Zariya.
Imam is intercessor, Wasila, or Zariya.

This will happen only if one requests Imam in person

on the day of judgement
Only if Allah permits it
Once the Mursheed accepts someone as his murid, then automatically Allah accepts the intercession. The Mursheed who is Fanna himself is one with Allah.

One who is fana is not aware of worldly things.
There are many people in this world claiming to be Mursheed and some of them have many Murids. Anybody can pray for his fellow brother/sister. It is up to supreme God to accept it or not. Allah hears all sincere prayers and you do not need intercession of anybody. Why weste time when Allah says he is as close to you as your jugular vain!!!!

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:19 pm

agakhani wrote:There were many example during SMS time and he used to ask some bhagat about their progress In Ibadat, Once he asked JUMA Bhagat how do you feel during bandgi?
Juma Bhagat replied "TO JO SUKAR AAHE"
No Bhagat! tell me what you really see in Bandgi?
Mowla are you really wants to know?
MSM told : yes! go ahead

Bhagat replied : "DURING "BANDGI" I AM SEEING MY SELF AS SULTAN A MOHAMMAD SHAH! Mowla replied that is true.

So, basically that is what happens when some one get progress in Bandgi he/she doesn't see any difference between him and Allah like Mansoor Al Haalaz and many other sufis did before.

Ya I can see that nuseri has progressed to that level

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:05 pm

zznoor wrote:One who is fana is not aware of worldly things.
There are many people in this world claiming to be Mursheed and some of them have many Murids. Anybody can pray for his fellow brother/sister. It is up to supreme God to accept it or not. Allah hears all sincere prayers and you do not need intercession of anybody. Why weste time when Allah says he is as close to you as your jugular vain!!!!

Life is not only about praying but to have a correct vision and perspective engendering correct ethics. One could pray intensely and yet kill his fellow Muslims like the ISIS and the Taliban.

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:08 pm

kmaherali wrote:
zznoor wrote:One who is fana is not aware of worldly things.
There are many people in this world claiming to be Mursheed and some of them have many Murids. Anybody can pray for his fellow brother/sister. It is up to supreme God to accept it or not. Allah hears all sincere prayers and you do not need intercession of anybody. Why weste time when Allah says he is as close to you as your jugular vain!!!!
Life is not only about praying but to have a correct vision and perspective engendering correct ethics. One could pray intensely and yet kill his fellow Muslims like the ISIS and the Taliban.

You are right. Those who kill without any reason are not Muslims. They are Muslim in the name only.
There are good Muslims and bad Muslims and so are good Ismailis and bad Ismailis.

fayaz006 · Post by **fayaz006** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:08 pm

zznoor wrote:
kmaherali wrote:
zznoor wrote:One who is fana is not aware of worldly things.
There are many people in this world claiming to be Mursheed and some of them have many Murids. Anybody can pray for his fellow brother/sister. It is up to supreme God to accept it or not. Allah hears all sincere prayers and you do not need intercession of anybody. Why weste time when Allah says he is as close to you as your jugular vain!!!!
Life is not only about praying but to have a correct vision and perspective engendering correct ethics. One could pray intensely and yet kill his fellow Muslims like the ISIS and the Taliban.
You are right. Those who kill without any reason are not Muslims. They are Muslim in the name only.
There are good Muslims and bad Muslims and so are good Ismailis and bad Ismailis.

Funny the majority of evil Muslims that we get seem to follow your version of Islam. The get their guidance from the same set of hadis that you follow and from the Holy Book that you swear by. Perhaps in history of Islam there has never been a fique as dangerous to the faith as one you follow ( Wahhabi Islam). Let me check my history book of when Ismailis persecuted fellow Muslims, killed people who did not agree with them, raped and pillaged entire cultures. Man I got nothing and history is one of my specialties.
To be honest your lack of depth in arguments is unbecoming of someone who has graduated as an engineer. Your arguments are dishonest at best and are now reduced to one liners about Ismailis being different from other Muslims.

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:36 am

Hay

There are more good Muslims then bad Muslims.

You can never blame Qur'an, Hadith for bad behavior. I am not responsible for
What iSIS is doing in ME. I am not defending anybody who takes law in hand. If some Mulla misguides some young man, responsible authority should punish them.

What is happening in Islamic world is very complicated and there are many actors to be blamed.

That is not issue on this site. We are discussion religion on Ismailis and other Muslims if you do not like Muslims, you are free to call yourself anything you want.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:54 pm

There are more good Muslims then bad Muslims.

Wrong,!! every one from this earth from child to old peoples thinks and believes that there are more bad Muslims then good Muslims!!

all hates goes to those Mullahs and Molwis who directed and misguided innocents Muslims in wrong direction, since the departure of Rasoolullah and still preaching against the Quran's hidayats and Rasoolullah's nashiyats! without understanding it properly.

According my Sunny turned "no religion person*" name Umar , there are more bad Muslims in comparison with other peoples from different religions ! as per him, If your Allah! ( he does not believe in Allah) ever think to destroy the whole planet then the main reason will be those bad Muslims and those Mullah and Molwis!! who misguided innocents Muslims because of their wrong interpretation of Quranic ayas and wrong meaning they have taken of the word "Zehad"

* Last time Umar asked Ismaili literature from me , which I have provided , let see what he has to say about Ismailism!!

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:03 pm

What is happening in Islamic world is very complicated and there are many actors to be blamed.

Don't forget those silent villain who are same like you! because you are one of them!! who remains quiet but they are always keep pouring fuels on fire.

BTW:- Forget about Bad Muslims right now because I klnow who is good and who is bad but tell me whom do you consider as a good Muslim women? those women who wear "Burkha" or those women who wear "Bikini"

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:36 pm

agakhani wrote:
What is happening in Islamic world is very complicated and there are many actors to be blamed.
Don't forget those silent villain who are same like you! because you are one of them!! who remains quiet but they are always keep pouring fuels on fire.

BTW:- Forget about Bad Muslims right now because I klnow who is good and who is bad but tell me whom do you consider as a good Muslim women? those women who wear "Burkha" or those women who wear "Bikini"

Silent Muslim is another fake propegenda. Search for Muslim voice against what is happening and you will find many prominent voices. I go for Jumma without fail and I have not heard one Khutba which preaches what you label as "poring fuel over fire".

BTW Burkha is not required for women in Islam but Hijab is. You will not know.
Your Islam and my Islam is different.
Yours have no Salat, Swam and Hujj, and no Jumma.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:50 pm

BTW Burkha is not required for women in Islam but Hijab is

No problem, Lets change to Hijab I just thought since you wearing Burkha so, I had putted that word but you didn't like it so, I changed it to Hijab O.K.now tell me which Muslims ladies are good Muslim ladies i.e who wearing Hijab or who wearing "Bikini"? or those who wearing both
Dikhane ke liye Burkha pahan lo, aour swim karne ke liye Bikini!! koi dekhe nahi is tarah

Silent Muslim is another fake propegenda. Search for Muslim voice against what is happening and you will find many prominent voices. I go for Jumma without fail and I have not heard one Khutba which preaches what you label as "poring fuel over fire".

I do not have to search! because I am seeing it by my naked eyes and I have came in contacts with Bad Muslims all over the world! so, I do not need your damn advise but tell me are you wearing "Bikini" or not that is my question.