Ismailism influenced by Greek philosophy.

mazhar · Post by **mazhar** » Sat Apr 11, 2015 12:50 pm

Dear friends,
Ismailism is influenced by Greek philosophy approx. 10%, Islam 40%, Hinduism 30%, christianity 10%, Judaism 5%, other religions 5%.
Any comments.

Post by **Admin** » Sat Apr 11, 2015 1:30 pm

The other way to see this is that ismailism has always been there under the name of Sirat al Mustaqueem and some time called Sat-Panth, the True Path

Elements of Ismailism can be found all over the world including South America.. these element did not influence Ismailism. maybe they influenced some Ismailis authors but they are part of the Faith, not influence.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Sat Apr 11, 2015 2:07 pm

Ismailism is influenced by Greek philosophy approx. 10%, Islam 40%, Hinduism 30%, christianity 10%, Judaism 5%, other religions 5%.

Seems you have made it! I can tell that easily! because the percentage are wrong. If you haven't made above percentage then give the source of above it.

My percentages are totally different then above,! you have forgetten the Suifism, which has more influenced then Greek philosophy.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Sun Apr 12, 2015 1:31 am

mazhar wrote:Dear friends,
Ismailism is influenced by Greek philosophy approx. 10%, Islam 40%, Hinduism 30%, christianity 10%, Judaism 5%, other religions 5%.
Any comments.

The essence of Ismailism is not influenced by any other system of thought. The doctrine of Imamat existed irrespective of any external cultural, intellectual and linguistic. However the doctrines and thought might vary according to the intellectual outlook of the time. For example we may need to use the modern concepts of space, time, relativity, atomic theory, evolution to articulate of thought, though the essence will remain the same. MSMS has said in his Memoirs:

"Ismailism has survived because it has always been fluid. Rigidity is contrary to our whole way of life and outlook."

In regards to the search of knowledge MHI has said:

From the very beginnings of Islam, the search for knowledge has been central to our cultures. I think of the words of Hazrat Ali ibn Abi Talib, the first hereditary Imam of the Shia Muslims, and the last of the four rightly-guided Caliphs after the passing away of the Prophet (may peace be upon Him). In his teachings, Hazrat Ali emphasized that “No honour is like knowledge.” And then he added that “No belief is like modesty and patience, no attainment is like humility, no power is like forbearance, and no support is more reliable than consultation.”

Notice that the virtues endorsed by Hazrat Ali are qualities which subordinate the self and emphasize others - modesty, patience, humility, forbearance and consultation. What he thus is telling us, is that we find knowledge best by admitting first what it is we do not know, and by opening our minds to what others can teach us.

At various times in world history, the locus of knowledge has moved from one centre of learning to another. Europe once came to the Islamic world for intellectual enrichment - and even rediscovered its own classical roots by searching in Arabic texts.

Astronomy, the so-called “Science of the Universe” was a field of particular distinction in Islamic civilization - in sharp contrast to the weakness of Islamic countries in the field of Space research today. In this field, as in others, intellectual leadership is never a static condition, but something which is always shifting and always dynamic.

Indeed, Islamic culture in past centuries was distinctly dynamic - constantly reaching out - both to India and the East and to Europe and the West - for enrichment. Throughout history, confident cultures from every part of the world have been eager to seek new learning, not to dilute inherited traditions but to amplify and extend them. The great civilizations of Islam were prime examples.

http://www.akdn.org/Content/182/America ... y-in-Cairo

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:30 am

Very relevant and touching farmans of mowla bapa and that is true that no body can give exact percentage but Kbhai if some one ask you and you have to give the percentage (no matter right or wrong) on Ismaili sect what would be your percentage rate? and which religions you will compare? this is just my information only.

mazhar · Post by **mazhar** » Sun Apr 12, 2015 4:48 pm

agakhani

Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 2031
Location: TEXAS. U.S.A.
Posted: 11 Apr 2015 09:07 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Ismailism is influenced by Greek philosophy approx. 10%, Islam 40%, Hinduism 30%, christianity 10%, Judaism 5%, other religions 5%.

Seems you have made it! I can tell that easily! because the percentage are wrong. If you haven't made above percentage then give the source of above it.

My percentages are totally different then above,! you have forgetten the Suifism, which has more influenced then Greek philosophy.

Reply to Aghakhani,

Sufism comes under Islam. Oops.

mazhar · Post by **mazhar** » Sun Apr 12, 2015 7:02 pm

Kmaherali ( quote )
Posted: 11 Apr 2015 08:31 pm Post subject: Re: Ismailism influenced by Greek philosophy.

mazhar wrote:
Dear friends,
Ismailism is influenced by Greek philosophy approx. 10%, Islam 40%, Hinduism 30%, christianity 10%, Judaism 5%, other religions 5%.
Any comments
Kmaherali wrote;.
The essence of Ismailism is not influenced by any other system of thought. The doctrine of Imamat existed irrespective of any external cultural, intellectual and linguistic. However the doctrines and thought might vary according to the intellectual outlook of the time. For example we may need to use the modern concepts of space, time, relativity, atomic theory, evolution to articulate of thought, though the essence will remain the same. MSMS has said in his Memoirs:

"Ismailism has survived because it has always been fluid. Rigidity is contrary to our whole way of life and outlook."

In regards to the search of knowledge MHI has said:

From the very beginnings of Islam, the search for knowledge has been central to our cultures. I think of the words of Hazrat Ali ibn Abi Talib, the first hereditary Imam of the Shia Muslims, and the last of the four rightly-guided Caliphs after the passing away of the Prophet (may peace be upon Him). In his teachings, Hazrat Ali emphasized that “No honour is like knowledge.”

Reply by Mazhar,
Maestro, it is true what MSMS wrote in His memoirs," Ismailism has survived because it has always been fluid." I agree. I mentioned Greek philosophy that meant our doctrines are borrowed from the philosophies of mainly PLATO and PLOTINUS. In Fatimid period our dais and scholars adopted the Emanation theory of Plotinus, ie Universal Intellect, universal Soul, and matter. They explained,
Kalima Kun
Aql e Kul Qalam ( pen ) Noor e Muhammadi
Nafs e Kul Loh e Mahfuz ( tablet ) Noor e Ali
Matter Universe
Km, in previous 2 postings to me , you wrote, Fatimid philosophy is 1000 years old and can not be applicable in today's era. In Ginanic literature, Noor e Muhammadi became Brahma, and Noor e Ali became Vishnu and it is strange that Noor e Muhammadi as pir comes under Vishnu that is Noor e Ali.
Km, in ginanic literature doctrine changed. Now Brahma is under Vishnu, and in some other ginans we have theory 3=1 ie, Vishnu, brahama, and shiva these 3 aspects are one. Ginanic literature is 700 years old.
Now in modern era again Imam and Pir is one, ie, Vishnu and Brahma are one again. Is it not a indicater of changed doctrine?
In Fatimid period theory of emanation, in ginanic literature, Prophet under Imam, and in modern era Brahma and Vishnu means Imam and Pir are one.
Km, I am looking for information, knowledge, and wisdom where ever it is available, I am not against any one's beliefs. Let me ask you one more question from your post. You quoted MHI saying," I think of the words of Hazrat Ali ibn abi Talib, the first hereditary Imam of Shia Muslims and the last of the four rightly guided caliphs after the passing away of the Prophet Muhammad PBUH. In His teachings Hazrat Ali emphasized that," No honour is like knowledge."
Km, please explain me, Imam mentioned," The first hereditary Imam," means Imamat started with Mowla Ali and not before that. Imam also mentioned,"Four rightly guided caliphs." Than how come we curse the other 3 caliphs.We should act responsibly.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:26 am

mazhar wrote:Reply by Mazhar,
Maestro, it is true what MSMS wrote in His memoirs," Ismailism has survived because it has always been fluid." I agree. I mentioned Greek philosophy that meant our doctrines are borrowed from the philosophies of mainly PLATO and PLOTINUS. In Fatimid period our dais and scholars adopted the Emanation theory of Plotinus, ie Universal Intellect, universal Soul, and matter. They explained,
Kalima Kun
Aql e Kul Qalam ( pen ) Noor e Muhammadi
Nafs e Kul Loh e Mahfuz ( tablet ) Noor e Ali
Matter Universe.

I agree

mazhar wrote: Km, in previous 2 postings to me , you wrote, Fatimid philosophy is 1000 years old and can not be applicable in today's era. In Ginanic literature, Noor e Muhammadi became Brahma, and Noor e Ali became Vishnu and it is strange that Noor e Muhammadi as pir comes under Vishnu that is Noor e Ali.
Km, in ginanic literature doctrine changed. Now Brahma is under Vishnu, and in some other ginans we have theory 3=1 ie, Vishnu, brahama, and shiva these 3 aspects are one. Ginanic literature is 700 years old.
Now in modern era again Imam and Pir is one, ie, Vishnu and Brahma are one again. Is it not a indicater of changed doctrine?
In Fatimid period theory of emanation, in ginanic literature, Prophet under Imam, and in modern era Brahma and Vishnu means Imam and Pir are one.
Km, I am looking for information, knowledge, and wisdom where ever it is available, I am not against any one's beliefs..

I did not say that the Fatimid philosophy is not applicabel today. I said it may not apply today. Vishnu, Bhrama and Mheshwar are attributes of God and hence are equal except they provide different shades of philosophy in regards to God. The Noor of Muhammad and Ali are one but their functions are different. Muhammad is the Pir - the Guide and Ali is the Imam - the object of our devotion, he functions as the Mazhar -i-dhat -i-Illahi.

mazhar wrote: Let me ask you one more question from your post. You quoted MHI saying," I think of the words of Hazrat Ali ibn abi Talib, the first hereditary Imam of Shia Muslims and the last of the four rightly guided caliphs after the passing away of the Prophet Muhammad PBUH. In His teachings Hazrat Ali emphasized that," No honour is like knowledge."
Km, please explain me, Imam mentioned," The first hereditary Imam," means Imamat started with Mowla Ali and not before that. Imam also mentioned,"Four rightly guided caliphs." Than how come we curse the other 3 caliphs.We should act responsibly.

Remember he is speaking to the whole world and therefore his audience is zaheri. The rest of the Muslims will not understand Imamat before Hazarat Ali. It is a batini concept.
As for the 4 caliphs there has been a reconciliation as per MSMS. For more on that you may refer to the following thread.
THE FINAL RECONCILIATION BETWEEN SUNNI AND SHIA DOCTRINES
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... tion+final

Yes I agree with you, we must not curse the first 3 caliphs.

ismaili103 · Post by **ismaili103** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:54 am

Yes I agree with you, we must not curse the first 3 caliphs

Yes Karim Bhai we should not curse them because Imam Sultan Mohammad Shah already curse them in his firman.

In one of the firman of MSMS, Imam called these 3 caliphs as " TRAN KUTRA"
" THREE DOGS".

That firman is in Gujarati.

Post by **Admin** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:24 am

This thread is about "Ismailism influenced by Greek philosophy."

Please stick to the subject and do not let yourself be distracted by weapons of mass-distration.

tret · Post by **tret** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:40 am

kmaherali wrote: ...he functions as the Mazhar -i-dhat -i-Illahi.

And what would be Imam's function, as Mazhar-i-dhat-i-Illahi?

According to the Constitution, Imam's function is to interpret the faith and as such is The Guide.

tret · Post by **tret** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:44 am

Prophet is the Natiq [Annunciator] who delivers the Tanzil of the Divine Message of Allah. Asas is delivering the Ta'wil of the Divine Message. Mauwla Ali being the Asas [during the life time of the Prophet] and as Heredity Imam after, performs the Ta'wil of the Divine Message and so is each Imam at their age.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:22 am

Sufism comes under Islam. Oops.

You must be sleeping there are many Hindus and Christians who claims themselves as Sufis. It is true that Islam has more influence on sufisam and Sufism started from Islam but now a days you can not say that only Sufis founds only in Islam!!

Yoga, presents a form of Hinduism that is very similar to some mystical practices of the Sufis. Those that practice Yoga try to free themselves from the material world.

There are many peoples from 'SANATAN DHARAMI" & "SANYASIS"they are follows what Suifs from Islam follows!! and called them shelf as Hindus.
I will try to find names of those sufis and will post it here.
I read a article of a sufi who claim himself as Christian and he is still practicing on Suifism.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:35 pm

Yes Karim Bhai we should not curse them because Imam Sultan Mohammad Shah already curse them in his firman.

In one of the firman of MSMS, Imam called these 3 caliphs as " TRAN KUTRA"
" THREE DOGS".

That firman is in Gujarati.

Shinan,
A small correction in your above post: Not the SMS but Imam Ali Shah (s.a.) had used above words in his farmans!! I have copy of that farmans. but looking the current situation and current MHI views on Islamic brotherhood and he efforts to build bridges among other Muslims! we should not at least curse them? whatever damages they had made so far is already done! nothing going to change! and it is not possible H. Ali can be crowned again as a first caliph! Take this approach :: if you can not like them then do not like, but do not curse them!!.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:54 am

tret wrote:And what would be Imam's function, as Mazhar-i-dhat-i-Illahi? .

Nasir Khusraw has said in Kalame Pir: "The Imam is the Hujjat or Proof of God and it is for this reason some Imams have said, "What is said about God refers also to us."
From the above quote, it implies that whatever is mentioned in the Qur’an about the function of God is the function of the Imam, Ayat 2:255 for example.
There is an instructive anecdote in this regard which can be accessed at:
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... pic&t=8709
This is of course a batini understanding of the function of the Imam.

tret wrote: According to the Constitution, Imam's function is to interpret the faith and as such is The Guide.

The constitution is an external document that is read by non-Ismailis as well, hence the articulation as the interpreter.
Ismailis however, are expected to have a deeper understanding of the Imam. Imam is the Shah and the Pir. As the Pir he is the interpreter and as the Shah he is the mazhar –i-dhat-i-illahi.

tret wrote:Prophet is the Natiq [Annunciator] who delivers the Tanzil of the Divine Message of Allah. Asas is delivering the Ta'wil of the Divine Message. Mauwla Ali being the Asas [during the life time of the Prophet] and as Heredity Imam after, performs the Ta'wil of the Divine Message and so is each Imam at their age.

The functions of the Natiq and the Asas are relative to mankind and hence must be used to articulate their roles to others. For the Jamat the Prophet was the Pir and a murid of the Imam. The offices of Imamat and Piratan have always existed right from creation. Imam is the source of the revelation and hence performing Ta’wil would sound absurd, although he would say that the Farmans and speeches are the ta'wil of the Qur'an.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:05 am

agakhani wrote:You must be sleeping there are many Hindus and Christians who claims themselves as Sufis. It is true that Islam has more influence on sufisam and Sufism started from Islam but now a days you can not say that only Sufis founds only in Islam!!

Sufism by defintion is mysticism in Islam and therefore it is part of Islam, although those who have elevated themselves do not consider themselves as being members of any faith. For example Hafiz said:

Have Learned So Much

I Have Learned
So much from God
That I can no longer
call
Myself

A Christian, a Hindu, a Muslim,
A Buddhist, a Jew

mazhar · Post by **mazhar** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:45 pm

ismaili103 wrote:
Yes I agree with you, we must not curse the first 3 caliphs
Yes Karim Bhai we should not curse them because Imam Sultan Mohammad Shah already curse them in his firman.

In one of the firman of MSMS, Imam called these 3 caliphs as " TRAN KUTRA"
" THREE DOGS".

That firman is in Gujarati.

Reply to Ismaili103,
Is it appropriate to quote such Farman of tran kutra on this site? This message has gone all over and will create more hatred agaist Ismailis. In Pakistan 2/3 strong religious parties had been and are down loading material from Ismaili Heritage and quoting in their magazines and pamphlets. Don't you people understand that this can be backlash and our Ismaili brothers and sisters can be hurt or killed. May be Ismaili103's family is sitting in safe haven or in USA, THAT'S WHY HE OR HIS LIKE MINDED ARE CARELESS. It is strange that Admin. so far has not deleted that particular post. Keep in mind our present Imam has said, I quote,
" The four rightly guided caliphs."

mazhar · Post by **mazhar** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:50 pm

Dear friends,
I have a question. Can our innocent Imams use absurd words like kutra,
haramzadah, and or curse any preson or group? Any explaination.

ismaili103 · Post by **ismaili103** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:38 pm

mazhar wrote:Dear friends,
I have a question. Can our innocent Imams use absurd words like kutra,
haramzadah, and or curse any preson or group? Any explaination.

Not current Imam but previous Imam, i.e Imam Sultan Mohammad Shah and Imam Ali shah had use these words in there firman. Its true and those firman are printed.

ismaili103 · Post by **ismaili103** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:49 pm

mazhar wrote:
ismaili103 wrote:
Yes I agree with you, we must not curse the first 3 caliphs
Yes Karim Bhai we should not curse them because Imam Sultan Mohammad Shah already curse them in his firman.

In one of the firman of MSMS, Imam called these 3 caliphs as " TRAN KUTRA"
" THREE DOGS".

That firman is in Gujarati.
Reply to Ismaili103,
Is it appropriate to quote such Farman of tran kutra on this site? This message has gone all over and will create more hatred agaist Ismailis. In Pakistan 2/3 strong religious parties had been and are down loading material from Ismaili Heritage and quoting in their magazines and pamphlets. Don't you people understand that this can be backlash and our Ismaili brothers and sisters can be hurt or killed. May be Ismaili103's family is sitting in safe haven or in USA, THAT'S WHY HE OR HIS LIKE MINDED ARE CARELESS. It is strange that Admin. so far has not deleted that particular post. Keep in mind our present Imam has said, I quote,
" The four rightly guided caliphs."

How does you can accurately say that there are 2 or 3 parties downloading material from ismaili.net, are you there registered member.

Niether me nor my family members ever seen any city Of pak exept karachi.

You have to keep one thing in your mind " what does Imam know we didnot know that" He can change any of his firman by time, just for the examination of our faith. It doesnt mean his previous firmans are false.

mazhar · Post by **mazhar** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:00 am

ismaili103 wrote:
mazhar wrote:Dear friends,
I have a question. Can our innocent Imams use absurd words like kutra,
haramzadah, and or curse any preson or group? Any explaination.
Not current Imam but previous Imam, i.e Imam Sultan Mohammad Shah and Imam Ali shah had use these words in there firman. Its true and those firman are printed.

103, add one more, Shah Hasan Ali Shah.
Question is why our Imams curse, when they are Sabir and Shakir.

mazhar · Post by **mazhar** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:19 am

ismaili103 wrote:
mazhar wrote:
ismaili103 wrote: Yes Karim Bhai we should not curse them because Imam Sultan Mohammad Shah already curse them in his firman.

In one of the firman of MSMS, Imam called these 3 caliphs as " TRAN KUTRA"
" THREE DOGS".

That firman is in Gujarati.
Reply to Ismaili103,
Is it appropriate to quote such Farman of tran kutra on this site? This message has gone all over and will create more hatred agaist Ismailis. In Pakistan 2/3 strong religious parties had been and are down loading material from Ismaili Heritage and quoting in their magazines and pamphlets. Don't you people understand that this can be backlash and our Ismaili brothers and sisters can be hurt or killed. May be Ismaili103's family is sitting in safe haven or in USA, THAT'S WHY HE OR HIS LIKE MINDED ARE CARELESS. It is strange that Admin. so far has not deleted that particular post. Keep in mind our present Imam has said, I quote,
" The four rightly guided caliphs."
How does you can accurately say that there are 2 or 3 parties downloading material from ismaili.net, are you there registered member.

Niether me nor my family members ever seen any city Of pak exept karachi.

You have to keep one thing in your mind " what does Imam know we didnot know that" He can change any of his firman by time, just for the examination of our faith. It doesnt mean his previous firmans are false.

Reply to Ismaili103,

I am not the registered member of any group. I am a free lancer. I have plenty of magzines. pamphelets, booklets, and books against Khoja Ismailism and the material mentioned in that is mostly taken from Ismaili Heritage. Post your real address in Karachi and I personally will slap that material on your face. Be careful in your posting.

Sanan, do not mis quote me , when and where I said previous Farmans are false. I have been advocating that obey the Farmans of present Imam, and Present Imam's Farman supersedes the previous oneand we Ismailis believe in that.
Munnu, I do not know how much you are super man or ant man but when Mullah will clap you will be the first to disappear from the scene leaving your Ismaili fellows to be hurt or killed!

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:24 am

Because H.Ali" rights was robbed by tbose 3 caliphs not only this but they snached Bag e FidK and that cause sudden death of Bibi Fatema. They had also give many problems to Nabi and involved in unnecessary wars and killed thousands innocent peoples .
The lists are very long but history is history!nothings going to change so I personally believe that if we can not like them! then do not like them but at least please do not curse them.

ismaili103 · Post by **ismaili103** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 12:20 pm

mazhar wrote:
ismaili103 wrote:
mazhar wrote: Reply to Ismaili103,
Is it appropriate to quote such Farman of tran kutra on this site? This message has gone all over and will create more hatred agaist Ismailis. In Pakistan 2/3 strong religious parties had been and are down loading material from Ismaili Heritage and quoting in their magazines and pamphlets. Don't you people understand that this can be backlash and our Ismaili brothers and sisters can be hurt or killed. May be Ismaili103's family is sitting in safe haven or in USA, THAT'S WHY HE OR HIS LIKE MINDED ARE CARELESS. It is strange that Admin. so far has not deleted that particular post. Keep in mind our present Imam has said, I quote,
" The four rightly guided caliphs."
How does you can accurately say that there are 2 or 3 parties downloading material from ismaili.net, are you there registered member.

Niether me nor my family members ever seen any city Of pak exept karachi.

You have to keep one thing in your mind " what does Imam know we didnot know that" He can change any of his firman by time, just for the examination of our faith. It doesnt mean his previous firmans are false.
Reply to Ismaili103,

I am not the registered member of any group. I am a free lancer. I have plenty of magzines. pamphelets, booklets, and books against Khoja Ismailism and the material mentioned in that is mostly taken from Ismaili Heritage. Post your real address in Karachi and I personally will slap that material on your face. Be careful in your posting.

Sanan, do not mis quote me , when and where I said previous Farmans are false. I have been advocating that obey the Farmans of present Imam, and Present Imam's Farman supersedes the previous oneand we Ismailis believe in that.
Munnu, I do not know how much you are super man or ant man but when Mullah will clap you will be the first to disappear from the scene leaving your Ismaili fellows to be hurt or killed!

Yeah, can we exchange our e-mail add. If you are in Karachi then I personally meet you and I'm serious... BTW dont forgot to get those magzines, pamphlets.

Its strange being an Pakistani and Karachitte I didnot face any of these Books. Ohh sorry I'm an Ismaili and my contacts are not with any of the extremist Mullah from where I got these kind of magzines to read.

If my statement was that dangerous, why admin didnot delete it. But it was from the firman and it was a TRUE STATEMENT.

ismaili103 · Post by **ismaili103** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 12:38 pm

Munnu, I do not know how much you are super man or ant man but when Mullah will clap you will be the first to disappear from the scene leaving your Ismaili fellows to be hurt or killed!

Did you ever listen about that interview of Imam, in which interviewer asks Mowla that "
What will you do when your mureed are being in difficulty"and Imam said "
IT WILL NEVER HAPPENS. "

Interviewer ask this again and Imams reply was same. He again ask that question and then Imam said

" If it happens, then I will use my SPRITUAL POWERS" ( not exact words ).

Mazhar, we Ismailis never ever face any problems because of those Mullahs, but those Mullahs( Islamic extremists and fundamantalists) end is near, as Imam said in his Firman " that 40000 mullahs were got killed in arab" ( it means downfall of Islamic extremism ).

mazhar · Post by **mazhar** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 1:50 pm

ismaili103 wrote:
Munnu, I do not know how much you are super man or ant man but when Mullah will clap you will be the first to disappear from the scene leaving your Ismaili fellows to be hurt or killed!
Did you ever listen about that interview of Imam, in which interviewer asks Mowla that "
What will you do when your mureed are being in difficulty"and Imam said "
IT WILL NEVER HAPPENS. "

Interviewer ask this again and Imams reply was same. He again ask that question and then Imam said

" If it happens, then I will use my SPRITUAL POWERS" ( not exact words ).

Mazhar, we Ismailis never ever face any problems because of those Mullahs, but those Mullahs( Islamic extremists and fundamantalists) end is near, as Imam said in his Firman " that 40000 mullahs were got killed in arab" ( it means downfall of Islamic extremism ).

Reply to Ismaili103,

As usual you again failed to give name of interviewer, date of interview, place or name of magzine or news paper.
103, let me remind you, may be you were not born at that time, In 80's in Chitral more than 100 ismailis were massacered hundres injured and properties destroyed. Gen. Zia sent army to control riots. Afterwards thousands Chitralis migrated to Karachi. Some time back that happend in Gilgit but there were less damages. A year or so handgraneds were tossed in Kariabad JK and Metrville JK, you should be aware of that. There are many other instances where Ismailis were beaten.
Regarding magazines, those were sold on bookstalls, well some one has to purchase them, other material come in shape of pamphilates which are ditributed in masses agaist Ismail Khojas and Bohri community.

Post by **Admin** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 2:05 pm

Even if ismailis stop cursing the 3 illegitimate caliphs and start reciting 5 namaz and performing 30 rozas or 300 rozas, the Sunnis and the shariatis will not accept Ismailis as being " Muslims" . The only way they would accept ismailis as being "Muslims" is if they leave the Imam, their Aga Khan.

This, we will never do.

Yes people have been killed. You are talking of 100. You may want to read our history. Ismailis have been killed and tortured by the thousands and have not accepted to leave their Imam. Our faith does not dance to the tune of emotional blackmailers. So don't even try!

I also have been personally summoned by Sunnis to leave Ismailism under threat of being killed. Did I abandon my faith? iIam still here to prove that we Ismailis do not fear you. the most you can do is kill our body. As of our Soul, you have no control over it.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:13 pm

Why don't you ask me Mazahar about that farmans in which Imam Ali Shahh had told that before the zahoorat 40000 thousands Mullahs will be killed!
Yes I do have that farman , date and place.
But what would you do that info when you do not have any trust on any farman!

Post by **Admin** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:59 pm

agakhani wrote:Why don't you ask me Mazahar about that farmans in which Imam Ali Shahh had told that before the zahoorat 40000 thousands Mullahs will be killed!
Yes I do have that farman , date and place.
But what would you do that info when you do not have any trust on any farman!

I can understand Mazhar. He has been poisoned with papers which he was told are Farmans. He is probably innocent enough to have believed whoever gave him these papers. I don't think he is aware of the conscious effort done by a group of people since the last 50 years to turn our Ismaili faith into Sunnism. These people have cleverly taken advantage of the autonomy given to institutions by the Imam which they have infiltrated. One case in point was Akbar Mehirnali who was once leader in one of our institution in Pakistan and for whom at least 2 Saudi cheques copy were found to have been paid to him.

Once I post the papers that Mazhar genuinely believed to be Farmans because he was told so by people he trusted, you will understand what I mean. His whole thinking has been directed in the wrong direction so I believe the only think remaining is for him to have access to real Farmans so he can come back to what Ismailism is really all about.

The four pillars attacked by that group actually since Pakistan independence was Dasond, Dua, Ginans and Ali-Allah. Not only false documents were prepared, Wahabi money even poured in to influence the outcome of the battle. There is a whole part of Ismaili History to be written for the second half of the 20th Century. Inshallah some day it will be done.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:50 pm

Ismaili pirs has quoted that "THAR THAR MOMAN BHAI KOI KOI RAHESHE"
and many things which are started to come true!
I have list of those predictions of pirs which have been comes true so far its long list but one thing here Pir na kahya juthda na hoy. and will be not! So far.