Prayer is always a religious matter. You cannot claim that just because Imam is primarily concerned with our upliftment spiritually that he does not care about our quality of life materially. IN fact the Imam says in his interviews that his role is to protect his murids.
Regarding Allah answering prayers - you never answered my question. WHehter you pray to Allah or not, Allah does not and cannot change and His act does not change at all. You need to think about this more.
The Uwaysis you speak of DO have an intercessor. Uways never met the Prophet but he was connected to Muhammad spiritually. The Uwaysi Sufis take Hazrat Khidr as their Murshid instead of a living Murshid and Khidr is their intercessor. But this is irrelevant - Ismaili Tariqah is different from the Uwaysis and I am not sure why you compare us to them.
It also seems you want to skirt around and avoid what the Farmans and Dua imply: it is entirely proper and legitimate to seek the Imam's help and blessings, regardless of the need, because at end of day, the purpose of prayer is spiritual. Even if you pray for more wealth, the very fact of praying has a spiritual effect and the Imam's role is to purify our souls spiritually so we can capture and receive more of God's continuous blessings. In that way, the Imam can really make our prayer for blessings come true.
first article of preamble of Ismaili Constitution
Dear ismailignosis,
I think I understand the way you describe it. Regarding to "Allah does not change His act". I'd like to pick your mind on the concept of "Free will or Pre-distant". I think it's somehow related.
so, if Allah's act [or will] does not change, how does it fit in the context of "Free will" or "Pre-distant". Which one really is it? If God's will doesn't change, does it mean it's pre-distant? or when we pray and seek help from the Imam, then we get spiritual or worldly barakat, then is it, somehow "Free will"?
I know this is altogether a different topic, but I just wanted to get your understanding.
Thanks.
I think I understand the way you describe it. Regarding to "Allah does not change His act". I'd like to pick your mind on the concept of "Free will or Pre-distant". I think it's somehow related.
so, if Allah's act [or will] does not change, how does it fit in the context of "Free will" or "Pre-distant". Which one really is it? If God's will doesn't change, does it mean it's pre-distant? or when we pray and seek help from the Imam, then we get spiritual or worldly barakat, then is it, somehow "Free will"?
I know this is altogether a different topic, but I just wanted to get your understanding.
Thanks.
Dear Ismailgnosis,
With ref. to your posting of Feb6, 2015; first of all I want to clearify this notion that I may be an X Ismaili which I am not. Personally I am not sunni nor shia, I am a follower of HI. In my previous posting to you I wrote,' where there is Farman I don't argue." I mentioned a Farman of MSMS, once again I quote here," 99% 0f my time is taken for wordly affairs of all Ismailis of the whole world. IN FACT, MY WHOLE TIME SHOULD BE SPENT IN RELIGION." Let me quote Farman of Shah Karim HI, made in Mumbai, India on
Oct 3, 1962. " If I have given you Farman about wordly matters, I want you to remember non the less that these wordly matters are not and never will be for any spiritual children the matters of first importance. The matters of first importance are your duties to your religion." MSMS made drastic changes at the end of His Imamat according
to the changing times, and SHAH KARIM implemented these changes in His early Imamat years. Du'a was one of them. I follow the wordings of our Du'a. Words are there,
amongst them BI HAQQI. According to Du'a we pray to Allah through Imam and Ahl e Bait. These words are given by Imam of the time.
Regarding your assertion," Whether you pray to Allah or not, Allah does not and can not change His act, does not change at all." Gnosis, I have objection on your choice of wordings," ALLAH CAN NOT CHANGE HIS ACT." means He is power less. Is there some one superior than Him?. Other question, If He can not make changes then what is the use of prayers and du'a maangni. If every thing is pre destined then a person is not responsible of his mistakes and sins. Empty the jails. Ler me quote a verse from Quran." WHEN MY SERVANTS ASK THEE CONCERNING ME, I AM INDEED CLOSE( TO THEM) I LISTEN TO THE PRAYER OF EVERY SUPPLIANT WHEN HE CALLETH ON ME." Al BAQARAH, VERSE # 186.
Gnosis you wrote," The owaisis you speak of do have a intercessor---------- He ( owais ) was connected to Prophet Muhammad spiritually. The Owaisis take hazrat Khidr as their murshid." Again you mistook me, I am not comparing Owaisis with Ismailis. By the way there is no mention of hazrat Khidr in Quran. If every one can be connected spiritually then there is no need of intercessor. 7 billion human beings do not consider HI as their intercessor, what about them. Obviously they are connected spiritually or they are dis connected.
With ref. to your posting of Feb6, 2015; first of all I want to clearify this notion that I may be an X Ismaili which I am not. Personally I am not sunni nor shia, I am a follower of HI. In my previous posting to you I wrote,' where there is Farman I don't argue." I mentioned a Farman of MSMS, once again I quote here," 99% 0f my time is taken for wordly affairs of all Ismailis of the whole world. IN FACT, MY WHOLE TIME SHOULD BE SPENT IN RELIGION." Let me quote Farman of Shah Karim HI, made in Mumbai, India on
Oct 3, 1962. " If I have given you Farman about wordly matters, I want you to remember non the less that these wordly matters are not and never will be for any spiritual children the matters of first importance. The matters of first importance are your duties to your religion." MSMS made drastic changes at the end of His Imamat according
to the changing times, and SHAH KARIM implemented these changes in His early Imamat years. Du'a was one of them. I follow the wordings of our Du'a. Words are there,
amongst them BI HAQQI. According to Du'a we pray to Allah through Imam and Ahl e Bait. These words are given by Imam of the time.
Regarding your assertion," Whether you pray to Allah or not, Allah does not and can not change His act, does not change at all." Gnosis, I have objection on your choice of wordings," ALLAH CAN NOT CHANGE HIS ACT." means He is power less. Is there some one superior than Him?. Other question, If He can not make changes then what is the use of prayers and du'a maangni. If every thing is pre destined then a person is not responsible of his mistakes and sins. Empty the jails. Ler me quote a verse from Quran." WHEN MY SERVANTS ASK THEE CONCERNING ME, I AM INDEED CLOSE( TO THEM) I LISTEN TO THE PRAYER OF EVERY SUPPLIANT WHEN HE CALLETH ON ME." Al BAQARAH, VERSE # 186.
Gnosis you wrote," The owaisis you speak of do have a intercessor---------- He ( owais ) was connected to Prophet Muhammad spiritually. The Owaisis take hazrat Khidr as their murshid." Again you mistook me, I am not comparing Owaisis with Ismailis. By the way there is no mention of hazrat Khidr in Quran. If every one can be connected spiritually then there is no need of intercessor. 7 billion human beings do not consider HI as their intercessor, what about them. Obviously they are connected spiritually or they are dis connected.
Mazhar, the book that I have does not mention anything in page 33. Yes it is Precious Perals. Admin can you help me, I cannot find it in my book!mazhar wrote:Dear kmaherali,
The Farman' 99% of my time' is of MSMS. It is mentioned in the booklet
Precious Pearls, printed by Ismailia Assosiation for Pakistan in 1954. The page # is 33.
To my recollection there are 3 editions or more of this book, he may have some other edition.
There is even one edition with the English text on the left side and the Persian text on the right side...
However what I can try to find is the farman of Hazar Imam saying he is spending 80% of his time on religious matter. I think it is in a movie named Pacemaker (from memory, 1964?) I will verify when I have some time.
Percentage is a concept that even children learn at a very early age. I don't think the percenage had any importance in matters of faith.
The Imam makes 100% time for whatever he wants to deal with. He is the Master of the Time. He does not deal in Time and Matter like we do, he deals in Time and Dimensions. These are Concepts which are completely foreign to us.
There is even one edition with the English text on the left side and the Persian text on the right side...
However what I can try to find is the farman of Hazar Imam saying he is spending 80% of his time on religious matter. I think it is in a movie named Pacemaker (from memory, 1964?) I will verify when I have some time.
Percentage is a concept that even children learn at a very early age. I don't think the percenage had any importance in matters of faith.
The Imam makes 100% time for whatever he wants to deal with. He is the Master of the Time. He does not deal in Time and Matter like we do, he deals in Time and Dimensions. These are Concepts which are completely foreign to us.
"How much time do you spend on your mission and how much on your personal business?"
http://www.ismaili.net/intervue/i671015.html
"Lets say 80% goes to my mission......"
http://www.ismaili.net/intervue/i671015.html
"Lets say 80% goes to my mission......"
To Admin: Ya Ali Madad.
You deleted next 8 lines of my last post,It is not fair.
A question for you:
It refer to one of your post made by you.
As Noor is divine iNTELLECT.
we also say that quran, ginan,etc is/as noor as it's content have divine knowledge.
do you pray to 'noor' only or to the 'bearer of noor"????
It is the' bearer of noor' ALI who can accept your prayers n bless you as well.
if IT JUST nOOR then you are praying 7-8 different facets of noor.
Please answer in one line if possible.
You deleted next 8 lines of my last post,It is not fair.
A question for you:
It refer to one of your post made by you.
As Noor is divine iNTELLECT.
we also say that quran, ginan,etc is/as noor as it's content have divine knowledge.
do you pray to 'noor' only or to the 'bearer of noor"????
It is the' bearer of noor' ALI who can accept your prayers n bless you as well.
if IT JUST nOOR then you are praying 7-8 different facets of noor.
Please answer in one line if possible.
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ismailignosis
- Posts: 43
- Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:43 pm
Dear Mazhar
You are incorrect when you say that Allah can change His act.
Because Allah is eternal and eternal means beyond all time and change. If Allah were to change His act, then He would be changing and therefore, He would be in time and composed of parts. This means Allah is not truly one and therefore there must be another cause beyond Allah since anything made of parts must be caused.
Mazhar you also quoted the Qur'an and the bi-haqqi prayer. I have no disagreement that we pray to Allah bi haqqi (by the right of) the Imams. However, in the Dua we also pray to the Imam and seek blessings and relief from him. See Part 5:
Ya Imam al-Zaman, Ya Mawlana Anta Quwwati wa Anta Sanadi wa 'alayka'tikali.
O Imam of the Time, You are my Strength and You are my Support and upon you I rely.
Please read my latest article - I will LOGICALLY prove to you that praying to the Imam is extremely beneficial and completely consistent with Tawhid. In fact, the prayers and blessings of the Prophet and the Imam of the Time make a HUGE DIFFERENCE in whether our prayers will be fulfilled or not. Because God Himself is beyond change, He is eternal, and His blessings always rain down on us. The changes that prayer brings are not changes in God, they are changes in the human soul who prays. Now, the Imam's prayers and blessings - in addition to our own prayers - can make a great difference and change within our soul. When our soul is transformed and purified by the Imam's blessings, then we are able to receive MORE of the blessings that Allah is ALREADY sending down on us. So you see, the Imam's blessings make ALL the difference in the world. Please read the whole article and I challenge you to try and refute any arguments I have. I have proven from both logic and metaphysics on one hand and the Qur'an on the other hand:
http://ismailignosis.com/2015/03/22/ya- ... in-prayer/
The Ismailis are completely justified in addressing the above needs and requests to the Prophet or Imam himself – calling out “Ya Ali Madad”, “Ya Ali”, “Ya Muhammad”, “Ya Mawla”, or “Ya Hazar Imam” followed by a specific request. This practice of actually calling upon the name of the wasilah – whether a Prophet or Imam – is confirmed in the Qur’anic narrative of how the Children of Israel asked Moses for water.
And We inspired to Moses when his people implored him for water (istasqahu), “Strike with your staff the stone,” and there gushed forth from it twelve springs. Every people knew its watering place.
– Holy Qur’an 7:160
There are two important points in the above verse:
a) The people addressed their request for water to Moses (istasqahu = they asked him for water)
b) Moses, under God’s inspiration, answered their prayer and fulfilled their request by producing twelve springs of water
Thus, the Children of Israel were justified in requesting water from Moses and God answered their prayer and fulfilled their request through Moses. In this case, both the Children of Israel and God Himself make us of Moses as their wasilah (means of access).
Along the same lines, the believers are completely justified in addressing their requests and prayers to the Imam of the Time by calling “Ya Ali”, “Ya Hazar Imam”, etc. The Imam is conscious of the requests and supplications of his believers and mercifully responds to them.
Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah Aga Khan III at the age of 8 years when he made the below address.
Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah Aga Khan III at the age of 8 years when he made the below address.
"Outwardly, Mawla Murtada ‘Ali used to eat bread made of barley, but otherwise, he used to tear apart mountains, and within a moment used to reach the other end of the world, and whoever sought the help of Mawla Murtada ‘Ali he used to fulfill their wishes and resolve their difficulties. We are the great grandson of Mawla Murtada ‘Ali."
Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah Aga Khan III,
(Address in Bombay, September 1, 1885)
The connection between the Imam of the Time and his believers is a spiritual one: the soul of the Imam is connected to the souls of the believers through the bay‘ah and this connection transcends time and space. The Qur’an says that “the Prophet is closer to the believers than their own souls” (Qur’an 33:6) and this holds true for the Imam since he is the Prophet’s successor. The Imam’s spiritual support (ta’yid) and blessings can reach the souls of his believers regardless of their physical locations. In this respect, the pure soul of the Imam of the Time serves as the relay point from which God’s blessings are extended to the believers and to humanity at large. In at least two places, the Qur’an indicates that God has bestowed His favours on certain human beings and that these individuals have the permission and authority to extend and bestow God’s favours and blessings to others without restriction:
God sets forth the Parable (of two men): a slave under the dominion of another; He has no power of any sort; and a man on whom We have bestowed goodly favours from Ourselves, and he spends thereof (freely), privately and publicly: are the two equal? Praise be to God. But most of them understand not.
– Holy Qur’an 16:75
Such are Our Gifts: whether you bestow them or withhold them, no account will be asked.
– Holy Qur’an 38:39
You are incorrect when you say that Allah can change His act.
Because Allah is eternal and eternal means beyond all time and change. If Allah were to change His act, then He would be changing and therefore, He would be in time and composed of parts. This means Allah is not truly one and therefore there must be another cause beyond Allah since anything made of parts must be caused.
Mazhar you also quoted the Qur'an and the bi-haqqi prayer. I have no disagreement that we pray to Allah bi haqqi (by the right of) the Imams. However, in the Dua we also pray to the Imam and seek blessings and relief from him. See Part 5:
Ya Imam al-Zaman, Ya Mawlana Anta Quwwati wa Anta Sanadi wa 'alayka'tikali.
O Imam of the Time, You are my Strength and You are my Support and upon you I rely.
Please read my latest article - I will LOGICALLY prove to you that praying to the Imam is extremely beneficial and completely consistent with Tawhid. In fact, the prayers and blessings of the Prophet and the Imam of the Time make a HUGE DIFFERENCE in whether our prayers will be fulfilled or not. Because God Himself is beyond change, He is eternal, and His blessings always rain down on us. The changes that prayer brings are not changes in God, they are changes in the human soul who prays. Now, the Imam's prayers and blessings - in addition to our own prayers - can make a great difference and change within our soul. When our soul is transformed and purified by the Imam's blessings, then we are able to receive MORE of the blessings that Allah is ALREADY sending down on us. So you see, the Imam's blessings make ALL the difference in the world. Please read the whole article and I challenge you to try and refute any arguments I have. I have proven from both logic and metaphysics on one hand and the Qur'an on the other hand:
http://ismailignosis.com/2015/03/22/ya- ... in-prayer/
The Ismailis are completely justified in addressing the above needs and requests to the Prophet or Imam himself – calling out “Ya Ali Madad”, “Ya Ali”, “Ya Muhammad”, “Ya Mawla”, or “Ya Hazar Imam” followed by a specific request. This practice of actually calling upon the name of the wasilah – whether a Prophet or Imam – is confirmed in the Qur’anic narrative of how the Children of Israel asked Moses for water.
And We inspired to Moses when his people implored him for water (istasqahu), “Strike with your staff the stone,” and there gushed forth from it twelve springs. Every people knew its watering place.
– Holy Qur’an 7:160
There are two important points in the above verse:
a) The people addressed their request for water to Moses (istasqahu = they asked him for water)
b) Moses, under God’s inspiration, answered their prayer and fulfilled their request by producing twelve springs of water
Thus, the Children of Israel were justified in requesting water from Moses and God answered their prayer and fulfilled their request through Moses. In this case, both the Children of Israel and God Himself make us of Moses as their wasilah (means of access).
Along the same lines, the believers are completely justified in addressing their requests and prayers to the Imam of the Time by calling “Ya Ali”, “Ya Hazar Imam”, etc. The Imam is conscious of the requests and supplications of his believers and mercifully responds to them.
Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah Aga Khan III at the age of 8 years when he made the below address.
Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah Aga Khan III at the age of 8 years when he made the below address.
"Outwardly, Mawla Murtada ‘Ali used to eat bread made of barley, but otherwise, he used to tear apart mountains, and within a moment used to reach the other end of the world, and whoever sought the help of Mawla Murtada ‘Ali he used to fulfill their wishes and resolve their difficulties. We are the great grandson of Mawla Murtada ‘Ali."
Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah Aga Khan III,
(Address in Bombay, September 1, 1885)
The connection between the Imam of the Time and his believers is a spiritual one: the soul of the Imam is connected to the souls of the believers through the bay‘ah and this connection transcends time and space. The Qur’an says that “the Prophet is closer to the believers than their own souls” (Qur’an 33:6) and this holds true for the Imam since he is the Prophet’s successor. The Imam’s spiritual support (ta’yid) and blessings can reach the souls of his believers regardless of their physical locations. In this respect, the pure soul of the Imam of the Time serves as the relay point from which God’s blessings are extended to the believers and to humanity at large. In at least two places, the Qur’an indicates that God has bestowed His favours on certain human beings and that these individuals have the permission and authority to extend and bestow God’s favours and blessings to others without restriction:
God sets forth the Parable (of two men): a slave under the dominion of another; He has no power of any sort; and a man on whom We have bestowed goodly favours from Ourselves, and he spends thereof (freely), privately and publicly: are the two equal? Praise be to God. But most of them understand not.
– Holy Qur’an 16:75
Such are Our Gifts: whether you bestow them or withhold them, no account will be asked.
– Holy Qur’an 38:39
MSMS says in his Memoirs:ismailignosis wrote:Dear Mazhar
You are incorrect when you say that Allah can change His act.
Because Allah is eternal and eternal means beyond all time and change. If Allah were to change His act, then He would be changing and therefore, He would be in time and composed of parts. This means Allah is not truly one and therefore there must be another cause beyond Allah since anything made of parts must be caused.
"God supports and sustains all existence at every moment by His will and His thought. Outside His will, outside His thought, all is nothing, even the things which seem to us absolutely self-evident such as space and time. Allah alone wishes: the Universe exists; and all manifestations are as a witness of the Divine will."
Space and time are encompassed in Allah's will. There is nothing outside of His will and thought. There is no reality outside of Allah - Mono reality.
Since creation is continuous and is subject to change, it follows that Allah's will also changes and hence His act also changes.
Being eternal does not necessarily imply being beyond time and spce. It just means that his creation is limitless.
As per Farman: "In the concept of Islam, Allah is eternal, His creation knows no limit in time, nor in form and as a result He creates when He will, when He wishes, when He wills, how he wishes, where He wishes and man's perception of science is therefore nothing more than the perception of God's creation.."
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ismailignosis
- Posts: 43
- Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:43 pm
Mr.gnosis,
Interesting article,
Can only Ismaili give Wasila like their imams and prophet? Or other Muslims can also give wasilas from their syeds, sadats or aulias and ask their needs and pray to Allah?
Why any one has to give wasila and ask from Allah? When he can ask directly to Allah.
Is Allah listen prayers only if some one give him wasila first?
GAR MANGNA HI HAI TO KYO NA US RAB SE HI MANGE?
JISNE YEH JAMIN , AASMAN, CHAND AOUR YEH SITARE BANAYE?
FARISTE, NABI, IMAM, AOUR AULIA BHI USNE HI PAIDA KIYE
AOUR WOH BHI US SE HI MANGE TO HAM KYO NA RAB SE HI MANGE?
Interesting article,
Can only Ismaili give Wasila like their imams and prophet? Or other Muslims can also give wasilas from their syeds, sadats or aulias and ask their needs and pray to Allah?
Why any one has to give wasila and ask from Allah? When he can ask directly to Allah.
Is Allah listen prayers only if some one give him wasila first?
GAR MANGNA HI HAI TO KYO NA US RAB SE HI MANGE?
JISNE YEH JAMIN , AASMAN, CHAND AOUR YEH SITARE BANAYE?
FARISTE, NABI, IMAM, AOUR AULIA BHI USNE HI PAIDA KIYE
AOUR WOH BHI US SE HI MANGE TO HAM KYO NA RAB SE HI MANGE?
Dear ismailignosis,
Can you then expound on when God says He guides whom he wishes or He guides whom He wills. Is that not part of a favour? I guess it directly depends on the individual's capacity and receptivity of Divine grace, but the way it's said, means it's God's wish whom He guides.
Another point: the status of soul at the time of birth is different from person to person. That in itself makes the level of receptivity to the Divine grace different. Would that not be considered a favour from God?
Thanks.
Can you then expound on when God says He guides whom he wishes or He guides whom He wills. Is that not part of a favour? I guess it directly depends on the individual's capacity and receptivity of Divine grace, but the way it's said, means it's God's wish whom He guides.
Another point: the status of soul at the time of birth is different from person to person. That in itself makes the level of receptivity to the Divine grace different. Would that not be considered a favour from God?
Thanks.
Google:ismailignosis wrote:Eternal means beyond time and change. Go and look it up.
Eternal does not simply mean limitless. Limitless is another word altogether.
synonyms:
everlasting, never-ending, endless, perpetual, undying, immortal, abiding, permanent, enduring, infinite, boundless, timeless;
amaranthine
"eternal happiness"
(of truths, values, or questions) valid for all time; essentially unchanging.
"eternal truths of art and life"
without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing (opposed to temporal ): eternal life. 2. perpetual; ceaseless; endless: eternal quarreling; eternal chatter.
Full Definition of ETERNAL. 1 a : having infinite duration : everlasting <eternal
Think about Monorealism and not Monotheism. There is nothing outside his will and thought. The face of Allah is everywhere according to Qur'an and it keeps changing!
tret,tret wrote:Another point: the status of soul at the time of birth is different from person to person. That in itself makes the level of receptivity to the Divine grace different. Would that not be considered a favour from God?
Thanks.
Why would the state of the soul be different at the time of birth, since you do not believe in reincarnation? I would be interested to know.
kamherali,
State of the soul being different at the time of birth, doesn't mean that one necessarily have to agree with the notion of reincarnation.
Do you believe the state of soul being different [or same] at birth? Why?
MSMS in his memoirs says:
So we can conclude that a) status of soul is different at birth b) you don't have to believe in reincarnation to believe in different soul's status at birth.
the question is why different level/status of soul at birth?
I would think that each individual soul has a purpose and enjoys certain status [which has the potential to elevate in this world] and is judged in accordance with those set of standards according to the status of the soul. i.e. for 5 years old kid it's very normal to do just basic additions or subtractions. However, for an adult say in university, simple additions and subtractions is not enough. He must be able to do more. Similarly God expects more of certain souls while not so much from others, depending on their status.
State of the soul being different at the time of birth, doesn't mean that one necessarily have to agree with the notion of reincarnation.
Do you believe the state of soul being different [or same] at birth? Why?
MSMS in his memoirs says:
Also MSMS replied to the question about reincarnation as being reborn in higher sphere.Roumi and Hafiz, the great Persian poets, have told us, each in his different way, that some men are born with such natural spiritual capacities and possibilities of development and they have direct experience of that great love, that all-embracing, all consuming love, which direct contact with reality gives to the human soul.
So we can conclude that a) status of soul is different at birth b) you don't have to believe in reincarnation to believe in different soul's status at birth.
the question is why different level/status of soul at birth?
I would think that each individual soul has a purpose and enjoys certain status [which has the potential to elevate in this world] and is judged in accordance with those set of standards according to the status of the soul. i.e. for 5 years old kid it's very normal to do just basic additions or subtractions. However, for an adult say in university, simple additions and subtractions is not enough. He must be able to do more. Similarly God expects more of certain souls while not so much from others, depending on their status.
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ismailignosis
- Posts: 43
- Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:43 pm
MR FORGET
Read the entire article I posted it. The answer is already there:
Allah is eternal and unchanging. He answers all prayers at all times and all moments. Allah's blessings descend upon all at all times.
Prayer to Allah is not to convince Allah to send us more or to change His Will and His Act - which is eternal. The purpose of prayers is to CHANGE OUR OWN SOUL so it can receive more of what God already sends us. This is where the Wasilah becomes important. Because the blessing and prayer of the Wasilah - the Prophet, the Imams - HELPS CHANGE OUR SOULS and not Allah's Will since He is beyond time and change. The Qur'an in 4:64 tells us that when Muhammad prays for our forgiveness, then we will "find Allah Most Forgiving and Merciful"; please note - the verse does NOT say that Allah changes from not forgiving to forgiving, the verse says that the believers FIND God to be Forgiving. So the change is all WITHIN OUR SOULS and the blessing and prayer of Muhammad is what directly causes this change within us. Similarly 9:103 tells us that the blessings of Muhammad purifies our souls and makes us reach peace (sakan). And thereafter, we find the forgiveness of God. Same logic - God does not change, we change our own state and the blessings of the Prophet and Imams help us acquire that change of spiritual state.
Karim M - your understanding of the word "eternal" is not correct. The theological definition of eternal is beyond time. Something that is "everlasting" and "forever" is still within time and change, and not actually eternal. If, per what you say, Allah is not beyond time and change, then Allah is composite since one part of Him remains the same and another part changes. And any being which is made of parts is caused by those parts and therefore cannot be Allah. The true Allah is uncaused and is independent in existence of all conditions and factors. A god who changes is not independent and unconditioned in its being and cannot be God.
Read the entire article I posted it. The answer is already there:
Allah is eternal and unchanging. He answers all prayers at all times and all moments. Allah's blessings descend upon all at all times.
Prayer to Allah is not to convince Allah to send us more or to change His Will and His Act - which is eternal. The purpose of prayers is to CHANGE OUR OWN SOUL so it can receive more of what God already sends us. This is where the Wasilah becomes important. Because the blessing and prayer of the Wasilah - the Prophet, the Imams - HELPS CHANGE OUR SOULS and not Allah's Will since He is beyond time and change. The Qur'an in 4:64 tells us that when Muhammad prays for our forgiveness, then we will "find Allah Most Forgiving and Merciful"; please note - the verse does NOT say that Allah changes from not forgiving to forgiving, the verse says that the believers FIND God to be Forgiving. So the change is all WITHIN OUR SOULS and the blessing and prayer of Muhammad is what directly causes this change within us. Similarly 9:103 tells us that the blessings of Muhammad purifies our souls and makes us reach peace (sakan). And thereafter, we find the forgiveness of God. Same logic - God does not change, we change our own state and the blessings of the Prophet and Imams help us acquire that change of spiritual state.
Karim M - your understanding of the word "eternal" is not correct. The theological definition of eternal is beyond time. Something that is "everlasting" and "forever" is still within time and change, and not actually eternal. If, per what you say, Allah is not beyond time and change, then Allah is composite since one part of Him remains the same and another part changes. And any being which is made of parts is caused by those parts and therefore cannot be Allah. The true Allah is uncaused and is independent in existence of all conditions and factors. A god who changes is not independent and unconditioned in its being and cannot be God.
The avenue of wasila is not restricted to Ismailis only. There are non-Ismaili elevated souls who have become fanna and who can act as wasila for their murids. For example the great Sufi master Hafiz's master was Attar. Most Silsila's eventually end up to the Prophet. Hence Fanna to a Mursheed leads to Fanna to the Prophet (spiritually) and finally Fanna to Allah.MR-FORGET wrote:Can only Ismaili give Wasila like their imams and prophet? Or other Muslims can also give wasilas from their syeds, sadats or aulias and ask their needs and pray to Allah?
Why any one has to give wasila and ask from Allah? When he can ask directly to Allah.
Is Allah listen prayers only if some one give him wasila first?
One may begin the journey alone and deal directly with Allah. Allah will answer the prayers. If one is obedient to Allah from his heart in his daily life, he will get Allah's response. At first, Allah may respond through giving knowledge and wisdom and inspiring the search. However for ultimate progress, the help of a Musheed is necessary.
For example Rumi at first was not born as a murid. He was engaged in this search and sought all kinds of knowledge. He was also very pious. When he was ready his Mursheed Shams appeared and guided him towards Fanna.
There is another example of a Christian who was engaged in this search and he became a Muslim and he was not satisfied until he became an Ismaili. His story is given at:
DID THE PROPHET
APPOINT HIS
SUCCESSOR?
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... pic&t=7700
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ismailignosis
- Posts: 43
- Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:43 pm
“Whoever thought God shifts from one state to another has actually ascribed to God the attributes of His creatures. Nothing can provoke God, the Sublime, to bring any change in God.”
- Imam Muhammad al-Baqir, (Al-Kulayni, Usul al-Kafi, Kitab al-Tawhid, Hadith No. 302, tr. Sayyid Muhammad Hasan Rizvi)
“Verily, there is nothing except Him Who is the Lord of the universe but is subject to annihilation, alteration, change, decay, transition from one colour to another, or from one shape to another, or from one quality to another, or from more to less, or from less to more. He alone is eternally in one state and He is the first, before every thing and the last, ever and evermore. His attributes and His names do not undergo any change as they do in the case of others. Take the example of a man who is at one time dust, at other time flesh and blood, and at another time decayed bones and finally dust. Another example is a date which is at a time raw, at other times ripe, mature, and then dry. With every change, the names and attributes also go on changing. Not so, rather just the contrary, is the case of God, to Whom belongs Majesty and Might.”
- Imam Ja‘far al-Sadiq,
(Al-Kulayni, Usul al-Kafi, Kitab al-Tawhid, Hadith No. 313, tr. Sayyid Muhammad Hasan Rizvi)
“His being the first means there was no ‘first’ before Him and no beginning preceded Him at all. His being the last means his being without an end, as end can be conceived only as an attribute of what is created. But He is eternal — the first and the last. He has always been and He will always be, having neither any beginning nor any end. Occurrence does not apply to Him. Nor does He change from one state to another. He is the creator of every thing.”
- Imam Ja‘far al-Sadiq, (Usul al-kafi, Kitab al-Tawhid, Hadith No. 314, tr. Sayyid Muhammad Hasan Rizvi)
‘‘Is God pleased and displeased?’’ Abū ‘Abdullāh (Imam Ja‘far al-Sadiq) replied, ‘‘Yes, but this is not like that which is found in His creatures. In the case of His creatures the pleasure is a state (hal) which enters into Him between one state to another. Since the creatures are hollow, compound and created, things can enter into them. Whereas nothing can enter into our Creator. Because He is One, the Unity in His essence and the Unity in the meaning (of His Positive Attributes). Hence His pleasure is His reward and His displeasure is His punishment — without anything entering into Him, or stimulating Him or bringing about any change from one state into another, since these are the attributes of His creatures who are powerless and needful.’’
- Imam Jafar al-Sadiq (Al-Kulayni, Usul al-Kafi, Kitab al-Tawhid, Hadith No. 303, tr. Sayyid Muhammad Hasan Rizvi)
- Imam Muhammad al-Baqir, (Al-Kulayni, Usul al-Kafi, Kitab al-Tawhid, Hadith No. 302, tr. Sayyid Muhammad Hasan Rizvi)
“Verily, there is nothing except Him Who is the Lord of the universe but is subject to annihilation, alteration, change, decay, transition from one colour to another, or from one shape to another, or from one quality to another, or from more to less, or from less to more. He alone is eternally in one state and He is the first, before every thing and the last, ever and evermore. His attributes and His names do not undergo any change as they do in the case of others. Take the example of a man who is at one time dust, at other time flesh and blood, and at another time decayed bones and finally dust. Another example is a date which is at a time raw, at other times ripe, mature, and then dry. With every change, the names and attributes also go on changing. Not so, rather just the contrary, is the case of God, to Whom belongs Majesty and Might.”
- Imam Ja‘far al-Sadiq,
(Al-Kulayni, Usul al-Kafi, Kitab al-Tawhid, Hadith No. 313, tr. Sayyid Muhammad Hasan Rizvi)
“His being the first means there was no ‘first’ before Him and no beginning preceded Him at all. His being the last means his being without an end, as end can be conceived only as an attribute of what is created. But He is eternal — the first and the last. He has always been and He will always be, having neither any beginning nor any end. Occurrence does not apply to Him. Nor does He change from one state to another. He is the creator of every thing.”
- Imam Ja‘far al-Sadiq, (Usul al-kafi, Kitab al-Tawhid, Hadith No. 314, tr. Sayyid Muhammad Hasan Rizvi)
‘‘Is God pleased and displeased?’’ Abū ‘Abdullāh (Imam Ja‘far al-Sadiq) replied, ‘‘Yes, but this is not like that which is found in His creatures. In the case of His creatures the pleasure is a state (hal) which enters into Him between one state to another. Since the creatures are hollow, compound and created, things can enter into them. Whereas nothing can enter into our Creator. Because He is One, the Unity in His essence and the Unity in the meaning (of His Positive Attributes). Hence His pleasure is His reward and His displeasure is His punishment — without anything entering into Him, or stimulating Him or bringing about any change from one state into another, since these are the attributes of His creatures who are powerless and needful.’’
- Imam Jafar al-Sadiq (Al-Kulayni, Usul al-Kafi, Kitab al-Tawhid, Hadith No. 303, tr. Sayyid Muhammad Hasan Rizvi)
Some readers in this forum does not like references from hadith, ginans even farmans of previous imams! They think true Islam is that Islam! Which has been either preached by central Asians dais and should be preached in only Persian language and in form of Qasidas! 
other than that it is all BAKWAS for them
very sad but it is true I really thanks for posting two hadiths of our previous imams. Keep going.
other than that it is all BAKWAS for them very sad but it is true I really thanks for posting two hadiths of our previous imams. Keep going.Dear Ismailignosis,
With ref. to your post dated March 25,2015; addressed to me, I read your article," The rationale for praying to God." on Ismailignosis.com.I appreciate your assertions, ideology and understanding of topic, it is a well balanced article. Regarding your question to me, you wrote," You are incorrect when you say that Allah can change His acts."
I believe that the word change does not apply to Allah, but His orders be. When we say Farman according to time, means it falls in domain of change. As Imam is authority on behalf of Allah, so order is coming from Allah for change through Imam.Universe is expanding, creation of Allah continues, and creation is related to change. ETERNAL means existing always without beginning or end, unchanging and not affected by time. Allah is beyond comprehension. No Azil, no Abid. Mowla Ali has said in Nahjul Balaghah. "None can fully understand or explain His Being however hard he may try. Intelligence, understanding, and attainment can not attain the depth of knowledge to study Him.
Reason and sagacity can not visualise Him. Human faculties of conception, perception, , learning, intuition, and apprehention can not catch sight of His Person, or fathom the extent of His Might or Glory." Regarding change, Allah Himself encourages change. Allah says in Quran," No doubt, Allah does not change the condition of people, unless they change that which is in their hearts." (Surah RA'AD # 11) This rule applies to all human beings. Now God Himself is not appearing before any person, but He guides through intercessor or Wasilah and we both agree on this concept of intercessor. You quoted from 5th part of Du'a, " O Imam of time, you are my strength, and you are my support, and upon you I rely." These words can be applicable to any person. For example, I requested my mentor for help and support because I relied on him. He helped me financialy, supported me, educated me, and helped me to get job. With due respect, I think HI can not go with mostly every mureed to help get the job. He will pray on request
and give Du'a Assis. What I want to say, Imam is primarily for our spiritual upliftment, and guide to right path so we have union with Allah. Though, HI guides us in wordly affairs for better living and quality life but this is His secondary mission and not primary, as you also mentioned," The connection between Imam of the time and His believers is a spiritual one." You quote from part 4 of Du'a that for spiritual upliftment and wordly affairs a mureed needs TA'EED of Prophet or Imam. Yes it is possible when mureed pray humbly and sincerily. But not necessarily prayer will be granted, because decision maker is Allah. Imam with His blessings forward the du'aguzari of all kinds, but we have experienced that mostly our wishes are not fulfilled.( Sorry to quote this example.) In Khwabi, Syria during deedar on Aug 24,2008,He said," With showering blessings for Barakah and resolutions of what ever difficulties you may be facing," Now look what destruction is going on in Syria. My point is, though HI prayed but things went in opposite
direction, because Allah did not want that way. Let me quote a maxim of Mowla Ali from Nahjul Balaghah." Mowla Ali said; I came to know Allah, the glorified,
through the breaking of determination, change of intentions and losing of courage."
With ref. to your post dated March 25,2015; addressed to me, I read your article," The rationale for praying to God." on Ismailignosis.com.I appreciate your assertions, ideology and understanding of topic, it is a well balanced article. Regarding your question to me, you wrote," You are incorrect when you say that Allah can change His acts."
I believe that the word change does not apply to Allah, but His orders be. When we say Farman according to time, means it falls in domain of change. As Imam is authority on behalf of Allah, so order is coming from Allah for change through Imam.Universe is expanding, creation of Allah continues, and creation is related to change. ETERNAL means existing always without beginning or end, unchanging and not affected by time. Allah is beyond comprehension. No Azil, no Abid. Mowla Ali has said in Nahjul Balaghah. "None can fully understand or explain His Being however hard he may try. Intelligence, understanding, and attainment can not attain the depth of knowledge to study Him.
Reason and sagacity can not visualise Him. Human faculties of conception, perception, , learning, intuition, and apprehention can not catch sight of His Person, or fathom the extent of His Might or Glory." Regarding change, Allah Himself encourages change. Allah says in Quran," No doubt, Allah does not change the condition of people, unless they change that which is in their hearts." (Surah RA'AD # 11) This rule applies to all human beings. Now God Himself is not appearing before any person, but He guides through intercessor or Wasilah and we both agree on this concept of intercessor. You quoted from 5th part of Du'a, " O Imam of time, you are my strength, and you are my support, and upon you I rely." These words can be applicable to any person. For example, I requested my mentor for help and support because I relied on him. He helped me financialy, supported me, educated me, and helped me to get job. With due respect, I think HI can not go with mostly every mureed to help get the job. He will pray on request
and give Du'a Assis. What I want to say, Imam is primarily for our spiritual upliftment, and guide to right path so we have union with Allah. Though, HI guides us in wordly affairs for better living and quality life but this is His secondary mission and not primary, as you also mentioned," The connection between Imam of the time and His believers is a spiritual one." You quote from part 4 of Du'a that for spiritual upliftment and wordly affairs a mureed needs TA'EED of Prophet or Imam. Yes it is possible when mureed pray humbly and sincerily. But not necessarily prayer will be granted, because decision maker is Allah. Imam with His blessings forward the du'aguzari of all kinds, but we have experienced that mostly our wishes are not fulfilled.( Sorry to quote this example.) In Khwabi, Syria during deedar on Aug 24,2008,He said," With showering blessings for Barakah and resolutions of what ever difficulties you may be facing," Now look what destruction is going on in Syria. My point is, though HI prayed but things went in opposite
direction, because Allah did not want that way. Let me quote a maxim of Mowla Ali from Nahjul Balaghah." Mowla Ali said; I came to know Allah, the glorified,
through the breaking of determination, change of intentions and losing of courage."
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ismailignosis
- Posts: 43
- Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:43 pm
Mazhar
What you say in your post contradicts itself a number of times.
Firstly, eternal means completely beyond time. We both agree on this. So if Allah is eternal (beyond time, space, change), then Allah's Acts do not change. I mean Allah's Act of creating, sustaining, and bestowing blessings upon His creatures. So there is no change in this Act - because it is an Eternal Act.
Now, prayer of human beings does not change His Act. This is because if Allah changes His Act within time, then He would change and not be eternal.
So prayers can only affect and change creatures, not the Creator. My quotes from the Imams say that no creature can cause Allah to change.
However, the prayers and blessing of Muhammad, the Prophet, causes real change in the creatures. Quran 4:64 says that the prayer of Muhammad will allow the believers to "find" God Forgiving and Merciful. Now I am sure you will agree that if Allah is Eternal and beyond time - then He does not change from not Forgiving to Forgiving. And He does not decide or make a choice to forgive or not to forgive. Allah is beyond all that. So Allah always remains forgiving eternally; even the Imams say Allah's Names and Acts do not change and are eternal. So Allah is always forgiving and merciful; but if the created beings are not receptive, they cannot experience or recognize Allah's forgiveness. The blessing and prayer of Muhammad, and the Imam of each time, helps the believers perceive and experience God's eternal forgiveness.
When we say Ya Ali, Ya Muhammad or Ya Imam - we are asking for Imam's blessings and prayers to change us and make our souls better able to receive Allah's grace and forgiveness. Also the Qur'an says the Prophet purifies us - in 4 different verses. So the purification of Muhammad and each Imam has a REAL EFFECT upon our souls; the Imam does not have to go to Allah and negotiate with Him; that is illogical - Allah is not some person who needs to be bargained with. The Imam's prayer and blessing does NOT affect or change Allah; it only changes and affects us.
What you say in your post contradicts itself a number of times.
Firstly, eternal means completely beyond time. We both agree on this. So if Allah is eternal (beyond time, space, change), then Allah's Acts do not change. I mean Allah's Act of creating, sustaining, and bestowing blessings upon His creatures. So there is no change in this Act - because it is an Eternal Act.
Now, prayer of human beings does not change His Act. This is because if Allah changes His Act within time, then He would change and not be eternal.
So prayers can only affect and change creatures, not the Creator. My quotes from the Imams say that no creature can cause Allah to change.
However, the prayers and blessing of Muhammad, the Prophet, causes real change in the creatures. Quran 4:64 says that the prayer of Muhammad will allow the believers to "find" God Forgiving and Merciful. Now I am sure you will agree that if Allah is Eternal and beyond time - then He does not change from not Forgiving to Forgiving. And He does not decide or make a choice to forgive or not to forgive. Allah is beyond all that. So Allah always remains forgiving eternally; even the Imams say Allah's Names and Acts do not change and are eternal. So Allah is always forgiving and merciful; but if the created beings are not receptive, they cannot experience or recognize Allah's forgiveness. The blessing and prayer of Muhammad, and the Imam of each time, helps the believers perceive and experience God's eternal forgiveness.
When we say Ya Ali, Ya Muhammad or Ya Imam - we are asking for Imam's blessings and prayers to change us and make our souls better able to receive Allah's grace and forgiveness. Also the Qur'an says the Prophet purifies us - in 4 different verses. So the purification of Muhammad and each Imam has a REAL EFFECT upon our souls; the Imam does not have to go to Allah and negotiate with Him; that is illogical - Allah is not some person who needs to be bargained with. The Imam's prayer and blessing does NOT affect or change Allah; it only changes and affects us.
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ismailignosis
- Posts: 43
- Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:43 pm
Mazhar you say - "I believe that the word change does not apply to Allah, but His orders be."
- The Orders or Farmans are not changed by Allah. They are changed by the Prophets and Imams. The Imams have authorization and authority from God at all times; so their orders change based on the needs of the time.
Allah does not change and Allah's Will does not change. If Allah's Will changes, then that means Allah changes.
You also have to understand that according to Ismaili Philosophy as taught by the Imams and Da'is, the first and only creation of Allah is the Universal Intellect which is eternal (azali) while Allah is the eternal-maker (azal).
Allah continuously bestows His Light and Mercy upon the Universal Intellect and the Universal Intellect bestows its ta'yid and mercy upon all creation beginning with the Universal Soul and from Universal Soul it goes to individual souls based on their own capacities.
- The Orders or Farmans are not changed by Allah. They are changed by the Prophets and Imams. The Imams have authorization and authority from God at all times; so their orders change based on the needs of the time.
Allah does not change and Allah's Will does not change. If Allah's Will changes, then that means Allah changes.
You also have to understand that according to Ismaili Philosophy as taught by the Imams and Da'is, the first and only creation of Allah is the Universal Intellect which is eternal (azali) while Allah is the eternal-maker (azal).
Allah continuously bestows His Light and Mercy upon the Universal Intellect and the Universal Intellect bestows its ta'yid and mercy upon all creation beginning with the Universal Soul and from Universal Soul it goes to individual souls based on their own capacities.
ismailignosis
Joined: 09 Jul 2012
Posts: 43
Posted: 29 Mar 2015 02:27 pm Post subject:
Mazhar
What you say in your post contradicts itself a number of times
ismailignosis
Joined: 09 Jul 2012
Posts: 43
Posted: 29 Mar 2015 02:30 pm Post subject:
Mazhar you say - "I believe that the word change does not apply to Allah, but His orders be."
Reply to Ismailignosis,
Dear Ismailignosis.
With ref to above questions, I quoted a ayat from surah Ra'ad # 11 in my previous post. Once again; Allah says, " Inna Allah la ughayyiru ma bi qoumin hatta ughayyiruu
ma bi anfusihim". Meaning, Indeed Allah does not change the conditions of people unless they change that which is in their hearts.( thinking ). Here the words used are,
"inna Allah la ughayyiru"; means change is related to Allah and there is no mention of Imam or Prophet in this ayat. When we say,Allah is SAMEI' and BASIR, means He listens and sees. When He listens and sees obviously He is acting and issues orders ( negative or positive ), and according to our philosophy through Intercessor. There is some universal system in place by Allah. Imam understands the system but may be we are not, because Imam is the main part of that system. Take example of wireless may be God from other side of universe transmits programs, orders, commands to Imam. This system is through noorani channel. Imam receives and implements them.
Ig, in universe who is running the show. Who is motivator of universe. If things are preprogrammed than there is no need of guidance, Imam, or Prophets.It means I am not responsible for my any acts, because I am preprogrammed. When we say Allah is 'AADIL than His 'adil will not leave 7 billion people to go astray. There should be some system for them as they do not recognize Imam of the time. They are not left out side the system. Ismailis may be fortunate because they can send the request file
through proper channel of Imam. What about other non Ismailis, may be they e- mail directly to Allah.
Joined: 09 Jul 2012
Posts: 43
Posted: 29 Mar 2015 02:27 pm Post subject:
Mazhar
What you say in your post contradicts itself a number of times
ismailignosis
Joined: 09 Jul 2012
Posts: 43
Posted: 29 Mar 2015 02:30 pm Post subject:
Mazhar you say - "I believe that the word change does not apply to Allah, but His orders be."
Reply to Ismailignosis,
Dear Ismailignosis.
With ref to above questions, I quoted a ayat from surah Ra'ad # 11 in my previous post. Once again; Allah says, " Inna Allah la ughayyiru ma bi qoumin hatta ughayyiruu
ma bi anfusihim". Meaning, Indeed Allah does not change the conditions of people unless they change that which is in their hearts.( thinking ). Here the words used are,
"inna Allah la ughayyiru"; means change is related to Allah and there is no mention of Imam or Prophet in this ayat. When we say,Allah is SAMEI' and BASIR, means He listens and sees. When He listens and sees obviously He is acting and issues orders ( negative or positive ), and according to our philosophy through Intercessor. There is some universal system in place by Allah. Imam understands the system but may be we are not, because Imam is the main part of that system. Take example of wireless may be God from other side of universe transmits programs, orders, commands to Imam. This system is through noorani channel. Imam receives and implements them.
Ig, in universe who is running the show. Who is motivator of universe. If things are preprogrammed than there is no need of guidance, Imam, or Prophets.It means I am not responsible for my any acts, because I am preprogrammed. When we say Allah is 'AADIL than His 'adil will not leave 7 billion people to go astray. There should be some system for them as they do not recognize Imam of the time. They are not left out side the system. Ismailis may be fortunate because they can send the request file
through proper channel of Imam. What about other non Ismailis, may be they e- mail directly to Allah.
Fayaz,
In response to your assertion of "everyone in this forum disagrees with my view", I should point out that at least one Ismaili member of this forum shares my view.
In response to your assertion of "everyone in this forum disagrees with my view", I should point out that at least one Ismaili member of this forum shares my view.
ismailignosis wrote: You also have to understand that according to Ismaili Philosophy as taught by the Imams and Da'is, the first and only creation of Allah is the Universal Intellect which is eternal (azali) while Allah is the eternal-maker (azal).
Mazhar,
The purpose of change is to become actualized. Perfection without change is impossible. Day and night is actualized and perfected by rotation of the earth. Our individual souls become actualized by 'polishing'. You attain education to actualize your knowledge by attending school. These are perpetual changes that are occurring towards ultimate actualization. Think of it as act of 'walking to school' vs 'seeing'. Act of walking to school is only actualized once you reached your destination. However, act of 'seeing' is perfect in each moment. Act of God is also perfect in each awakening moment. And, since God is perfect; therefore, there's no change applicable to God. If we agree on that, therefore same is true for the Essence and Will of God, which must be perfect.
The purpose of change is to become actualized. Perfection without change is impossible. Day and night is actualized and perfected by rotation of the earth. Our individual souls become actualized by 'polishing'. You attain education to actualize your knowledge by attending school. These are perpetual changes that are occurring towards ultimate actualization. Think of it as act of 'walking to school' vs 'seeing'. Act of walking to school is only actualized once you reached your destination. However, act of 'seeing' is perfect in each moment. Act of God is also perfect in each awakening moment. And, since God is perfect; therefore, there's no change applicable to God. If we agree on that, therefore same is true for the Essence and Will of God, which must be perfect.