Dear friends,
Hazar Imam has mentioned in the First Article Of Preamble, I quote," Islam as revealed in the Holy Quran, is the final message of Allah to mankind, and is UNIVERSAL and
ETERNAL." Prophet Muhammad said in a Hadith, I quote," Two things I am leaving amongst you after me, the Quran and my posterity; verily if you follow them both, you will
never go astray.Both are tied with a long rope and can not be seperated till the day of judgement." ( Mulslim vol. 2 ). This true Hadith you can find in the following Farman booklets printed by Ismailia Associations.
1. Precious Pearls, 1954 printed by Ismailia Association Pakistan.
2. Precious Gems, 1959 =======================Pakistan.
3. Precious Gems, vol.1 =======================Canada.
Almost every Ismaili adult knows this Hadith, many times we have listen in waizes. We Ismaili ( khojas ) have hold fast to posteriy but have neglected Quran and as I heard
mostly do not believe in Quran. MHI has emphasized in His Farmans to study Quran and know its meaning. I have visited 70+ jks in variuos towns in different countries but never heard recitation of Quran in between prayers. Although Ginans are recited in every jks. I am not against Ginans, as H I has said these are ' wonderful tradition'.
Pir Sadruddin in one of his Ginans has said;
PIR SADARDIN YARA PARHEY QURAN
BAHER JAAVEY TA KU ANDAR LANA.
My question is why we hesitate to recite Quran in jks in between prayers, though in waizes and on other occassions it is recited frequently. In my opinion if we study Quran,
lot of questions asked can be resolved easily, and we can discuss with non Ismailis very confidently. For that in every jk Quran study classes be started, and on daily bases
along with Ginans few Ayats of Quran with meaning be explained to jamaits.
quran as mentioned in preamble
In principle, it is not a bad idea to have Qur'an recitations in JKs. However there are issues with the Qur'an recitation.
1. MHI has told us to study parts of the Qur'an and not the entire Qur'an because it was revealed to the whole of mankind, hence some parts may not be releavnt to us. Therefore there would be the need to be selective about it.
2. There aren't good reciters available for all the jamaats. If the recitation is poor then it can be very boring for the Jamats. One of the reasons that the Ginanic tradition continues to thrive is because of the beautiful ragas. Even if members of the Jamat do not know the meanings, they still enjoy recitation.
3. Also most of the Jamat does not know Arabic, hence we would need a translation available as well.
1. MHI has told us to study parts of the Qur'an and not the entire Qur'an because it was revealed to the whole of mankind, hence some parts may not be releavnt to us. Therefore there would be the need to be selective about it.
2. There aren't good reciters available for all the jamaats. If the recitation is poor then it can be very boring for the Jamats. One of the reasons that the Ginanic tradition continues to thrive is because of the beautiful ragas. Even if members of the Jamat do not know the meanings, they still enjoy recitation.
3. Also most of the Jamat does not know Arabic, hence we would need a translation available as well.
Kmaherali wrote
Is it not Quran only book revealed to the Prophet. Rest of material like Hadith, kasidas, Ginans were written by humans. Even if they were divinely inspired.1. MHI has told us to study parts of the Qur'an and not the entire Qur'an because it was revealed to the whole of mankind, hence some parts may not be releavnt to us. Therefore there would be the need to be selective about it.
In another authentic Hadit prophet also said" Prophet Muhammad said in a Hadith, I quote," Two things I am leaving amongst you after me, the Quran and my posterity; verily if you follow them both, you will
never go astray.Both are tied with a long rope and can not be seperated till the day of judgement." ( Mulslim vol. 2 ).
" Two things I am leaving amongst you after me, the Quran and my Sunna; verily if you follow them both, you will
never go astray."
( I can give reference but with pick and choose Hadith mindset you get into useless debate)
zznoor worte
Is it not Quran only book revealed to the Prophet. Rest of material like Hadith, kasidas, Ginans were written by humans. Even if they were divinely inspired.[/quote]
I dont know about that, the copy i have was written by Ali Unal, printed by Tughra Books in NJ. Quran as a physical book is also man made, it was arranged by man, printed by man and distributed by man.
Mazhar to your greater point of learning Quran, our RE is pretty much dedicated to teaching the messages of the Quran. We have a limited amount of time, therefore the curriculum will focus on the universal lessons and messages from the Quran, rather then teaching our students Arabic.
Is it not Quran only book revealed to the Prophet. Rest of material like Hadith, kasidas, Ginans were written by humans. Even if they were divinely inspired.[/quote]
I dont know about that, the copy i have was written by Ali Unal, printed by Tughra Books in NJ. Quran as a physical book is also man made, it was arranged by man, printed by man and distributed by man.
Mazhar to your greater point of learning Quran, our RE is pretty much dedicated to teaching the messages of the Quran. We have a limited amount of time, therefore the curriculum will focus on the universal lessons and messages from the Quran, rather then teaching our students Arabic.
I agree with Mazhar on this one. Jama'at certainly will benifit from learning the Qur'an and not the other way around.
But, are you suggesting that there are parts of Qur'an that are contradicting our Tariqa? There's no contradiction in the Qur'an, and in Message of God!
That's why Jama'at should make an effort to learn the Qur'an. What's wrong with that?
Even today it's selective. Not all Qasidas/Ginans are recited. They have to be approved! And I think, it's a good idea to be selective.kmaherali wrote: 1. MHI has told us to study parts of the Qur'an and not the entire Qur'an because it was revealed to the whole of mankind, hence some parts may not be releavnt to us. Therefore there would be the need to be selective about it.
But, are you suggesting that there are parts of Qur'an that are contradicting our Tariqa? There's no contradiction in the Qur'an, and in Message of God!
So, are you suggesting that Jama'at is coming to JK to be entertained?kmaherali wrote: 2. There aren't good reciters available for all the jamaats. If the recitation is poor then it can be very boring for the Jamats. One of the reasons that the Ginanic tradition continues to thrive is because of the beautiful ragas. Even if members of the Jamat do not know the meanings, they still enjoy recitation.
That's why Jama'at should make an effort to learn the Qur'an. What's wrong with that?
fayaz006 wrote:
I dont know about that, the copy i have was written by Ali Unal, printed by Tughra Books in NJ. Quran as a physical book is also man made, it was arranged by man, printed by man and distributed by man.
googal "The QUR`AN - How it was Revealed and Compiled
By Dr. Mohammad Shafi"
and read it.
Hz Ali had 5 and half years to revise, correct or burn so called Uthmanic Quran. Unfortunately he did not. More then 40 Bolta Quran Fatemi Imams had oppurtinity to dictate Quran, they did not. Imam SMS in his firman said he will write down all 30+10 chapters of Quran. He passed away without writing single "Alef".
Typical cop out. If you teach Quran they will question what is taught.Mazhar to your greater point of learning Quran, our RE is pretty much dedicated to teaching the messages of the Quran. We have a limited amount of time, therefore the curriculum will focus on the universal lessons and messages from the Quran, rather then teaching our students Arabic.
Mustaali Ismailis are forbidden to read translation so clergy can give their own selected twist.
Salaam
'SUNNA" where did you find this word Majority of Shiats and also Sunny (look below for the references) also believes that Prophet had spoken from his holy mouth this sentences in Gadir Khum :" Two things I am leaving amongst you after me, the Quran and my Sunna;
"I am leaving for you two precious and weighty Symbols that if you adhere to BOTH of them you shall not go astray after me. They are, the Book of Allah, and my progeny, that is my Ahlul-Bayt." Now where did you find the word Sunna??
Sunni references:
1. Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v5, pp 662-663,328, report of 30+ companions, with reference to several chains of transmitters.
2. al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, Chapter of "Understanding (the virtues) of Companions, v3, pp 109,110,148,533 who wrote this tradition is authentic (Sahih) based on the criteria of the two Shaikhs (al-Bukhari and Muslim).
3. Sunan, by Daarami, v2, p432
4. Musnad, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v3, pp 14,17,26,59, v4, pp 366,370-372, v5, pp 182,189,350,366,419
5. Fadha’il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p585, Tradition #990
6. al-Khasa’is, by al-Nisa’i, pp 21,30
7. al-Sawa’iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar Haythami, Ch. 11, section 1, p230
8. al-Kabir, by al-Tabarani, v3, pp 62-63,137
9. Kanz al-Ummal, by al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, Chapter al-Iti’sam bi Habl Allah, v1, p44.
10. Tafsir Ibn Kathir (complete version), v4, p113, under commentary of verse 42:23 of Qur’an (four traditions)
11. al-Tabaqat al-Kubra, by Ibn Sa’d, v2, p194, Pub. by Dar Isadder, Lebanon.
12. al-Jami’ al-Saghir, by al-Suyuti, v1, p353, and also in v2
13. Majma’ al-Zawa’id, al-Haythami, v9, p163
14. al-Fateh al-Kabir, al-Binhani, v1, p451
15. Usdul Ghabah fi Ma’rifat al-Sahaba, Ibn al-Athir, v2, p12
16. Jami’ al-Usul, Ibn al-Athir, v1, p187
17. History of Ibn Asakir, v5, p436
18. al-Taj al-Jami’ Lil Usul, v3, p308
19. al-Durr al-Manthoor, al-Hafidh al-Suyuti, v2, p60
20. Yanabi al-Mawaddah, al-Qundoozi al-Hanafi, pp 38,183
21. Abaqat al-Anwar, v1, p16
First of all do not compare ginans with qasidas! I have told you many times in past because there sbould no comparison between these two; ginans are a day and qasidas are night , ginans are full with answer of any questions while Qasidas does not have any answers.
The other thing as you wrote above that ginans are selective and not all ginans are recitingin JK, that is not true if you knowks the ragas of that ginan and knows when that ginan should be recited in JK Then nobody can stop you not to recite that ginan in JK not even Mukhis or Itreb.
Before making any bold and untrue comments first make it sure with others or at least ask your mentor first.
The other thing as you wrote above that ginans are selective and not all ginans are recitingin JK, that is not true if you knowks the ragas of that ginan and knows when that ginan should be recited in JK Then nobody can stop you not to recite that ginan in JK not even Mukhis or Itreb.
Before making any bold and untrue comments first make it sure with others or at least ask your mentor first.
agakhani wrote:First of all do not compare ginans with qasidas! I have told you many times in past because there sbould no comparison between these two; ginans are a day and qasidas are night , ginans are full with answer of any questions while Qasidas does not have any answers.
The other thing as you wrote above that ginans are selective and not all ginans are recitingin JK, that is not true if you knowks the ragas of that ginan and knows when that ginan should be recited in JK Then nobody can stop you not to recite that ginan in JK not even Mukhis or Itreb.
Before making any bold and untrue comments first make it sure with others or at least ask your mentor first.
okay sir!! whatever you do, don't compare ginan with qasida... okay, got it.
zznoor wrote
Mustaali Ismailis are forbidden to read translation so clergy can give their own selected twist.
Salaam[/quote]
I don't understand what's the cop out here. Years of developing a curriculum to teach essential messages of the Quran, it ethics, its values and yes critically think about the Ismaili and Muslim faith. Or years of dogmatically pounding Arabic literature into the heads of young pupils in the hopes of them learning religion.
Lets take a look at current events in the news shall we, and guess which approach has worked well. I know more about the Quran than most sunnis in my circle. Let me know which approach you chose.
Typical cop out. If you teach Quran they will question what is taught.Mazhar to your greater point of learning Quran, our RE is pretty much dedicated to teaching the messages of the Quran. We have a limited amount of time, therefore the curriculum will focus on the universal lessons and messages from the Quran, rather then teaching our students Arabic.
Mustaali Ismailis are forbidden to read translation so clergy can give their own selected twist.
Salaam[/quote]
I don't understand what's the cop out here. Years of developing a curriculum to teach essential messages of the Quran, it ethics, its values and yes critically think about the Ismaili and Muslim faith. Or years of dogmatically pounding Arabic literature into the heads of young pupils in the hopes of them learning religion.
Lets take a look at current events in the news shall we, and guess which approach has worked well. I know more about the Quran than most sunnis in my circle. Let me know which approach you chose.
agakhani wrote:First of all do not compare ginans with qasidas! I have told you many times in past because there sbould no comparison between these two; ginans are a day and qasidas are night , ginans are full with answer of any questions while Qasidas does not have any answers.
The other thing as you wrote above that ginans are selective and not all ginans are recitingin JK, that is not true if you knowks the ragas of that ginan and knows when that ginan should be recited in JK Then nobody can stop you not to recite that ginan in JK not even Mukhis or Itreb.
Before making any bold and untrue comments first make it sure with others or at least ask your mentor first.
Agakhani we are selective about which ginans are recited. As for the Quran I think it's vital for us to understand it. Afterall we are Ismailis and search of true spiritual knowledge is a huge part of our Tariqa.
No discussion on ginans here. Keep it only specifically to Quran. Why try to mingle all the subjects into each and every thread? Keep to the title of the thread. if there are too many subjects mixed up, the whole thread will become useless and will be deleted. it is sad that this has to be repeated time and again. You all have probably noticed may subjects and many thread deleted these last few weeks.
I am not suggesting that there are real contradictions but the Imam must have reasons to say parts of the Quran in all of his Farmans.tret wrote:But, are you suggesting that there are parts of Qur'an that are contradicting our Tariqa? There's no contradiction in the Qur'an, and in Message of God!?
Example:
"I would like you to go on improving your knowledge and your understanding of the Dua and of those parts of the Quran e Sharif which are important to us in our everyday lives in our understanding of our faith."
There are apparent contradictions in the Qur'an, and hence a guided approach is required in the study.
As I mentioned in my post before, MSMS actually discouraged murids generally to read the Qur'an because it would confuse them. Of course this does not apply today as we have many qualified murids to interpret it properly for the Jamats.
If by entertainment it is implied to get happiness, then yes JK is a place of enlightenment and happiness. Pir Sadardeen says in a verse of a Ginan:tret wrote: So, are you suggesting that Jama'at is coming to JK to be entertained?
That's why Jama'at should make an effort to learn the Qur'an. What's wrong with that!
ejee geenaan bolo re neet noore bhariyaa
evo haidde tamaare harakh na maye ji.........................1
O momins: Recite the 'Geenaans' everyday as they are full of Light.
This will generate such joy and happiness that cannot
be contained in your hearts.
There is nothing wrong in learning the Qur'an. Hearts are also enlightened by the Quran.
Dear kmaherali,
With ref. to Jan28,2015 posting, you wrote," In principle, it is not a bad idea to have Quran recitations in JKs.How ever there are issues with the Quran recitations."
Km, I shall try to address your concerns. In 2002,ITREB Karachi published a book named ' AYATUL HUDA' which has 10 chapres and comprises more than 800 Ayats and Surahs with meanings. As book is bublished by ITREB with meaning so I don't see any difficulty in implementing it in JKs, it is ready to go. As it is said," where is will there is way." It depends on the will of ITREB to start Quran reading with meaning in JKs. Your this concern is also addressed that jamait does not know Arabic, because meaning is already there. Regarding recitation, right now that is not necessary, till we train manpower. Just read few ayats with meaning in prescribed time frame by a person who knows Quran reading with meaning. Meaning is must.
Let me address your concern about manpower. As I know in central Asia, Afganistan, China and pakistan has no problem of manpower as they are well versed in Quran.
In Pakistan Arabic and Quran classes are arranged by ITREB. For North America there is solution. The immigrants from Pakistan, Bangla desh, and Afgansitan mostly know Quran can be utilised. For future, IIS should train STEP students who when return to their native countries should train the local Ismaili students. Also ITREB should start Quran study classes with lectures and discusstions on Quranic topics.
With ref. to Jan28,2015 posting, you wrote," In principle, it is not a bad idea to have Quran recitations in JKs.How ever there are issues with the Quran recitations."
Km, I shall try to address your concerns. In 2002,ITREB Karachi published a book named ' AYATUL HUDA' which has 10 chapres and comprises more than 800 Ayats and Surahs with meanings. As book is bublished by ITREB with meaning so I don't see any difficulty in implementing it in JKs, it is ready to go. As it is said," where is will there is way." It depends on the will of ITREB to start Quran reading with meaning in JKs. Your this concern is also addressed that jamait does not know Arabic, because meaning is already there. Regarding recitation, right now that is not necessary, till we train manpower. Just read few ayats with meaning in prescribed time frame by a person who knows Quran reading with meaning. Meaning is must.
Let me address your concern about manpower. As I know in central Asia, Afganistan, China and pakistan has no problem of manpower as they are well versed in Quran.
In Pakistan Arabic and Quran classes are arranged by ITREB. For North America there is solution. The immigrants from Pakistan, Bangla desh, and Afgansitan mostly know Quran can be utilised. For future, IIS should train STEP students who when return to their native countries should train the local Ismaili students. Also ITREB should start Quran study classes with lectures and discusstions on Quranic topics.
Why not Toret, Ingil and Bibles?Agakhani As for the Quran I think it's vital for us to understand it. Afterall we are Ismailis and search of true spiritual knowledge is a huge part of our Tariqa.
We can also find spiritual knowledge from these books too? and no Muslims can denied that these books are not revealed from Allah! do they? nope, then why not we are not reciting those books in Khane?
Why not Vedas and Purans they are not less then Quran for Hindus and these books are also teaches us about true spirituality!!! Gita is full with spirituality so does the Sam Ved and some purans!!!
Fair question, for Muslim civilization as a whole some things are in common. The Quran, shahada, etc. You are correct in saying the Purans are like Quran to the hindus, not to the Muslim civilization as a whole. The Ginanic tradition is unique to the indian subcontinent, but our jamats of Hunza, Gilgit, Afghanistan etc, have no knowledge of them. They have the Quran and Qasidas.agakhani wrote:Why not Toret, Ingil and Bibles?Agakhani As for the Quran I think it's vital for us to understand it. Afterall we are Ismailis and search of true spiritual knowledge is a huge part of our Tariqa.
We can also find spiritual knowledge from these books too? and no Muslims can denied that these books are not revealed from Allah! do they? nope, then why not we are not reciting those books in Khane?
Why not Vedas and Purans they are not less then Quran for Hindus and these books are also teaches us about true spirituality!!! Gita is full with spirituality so does the Sam Ved and some purans!!!
So you may be able to find spiritual knowledge in Geeta but for the Muslim civilization as a whole, its the Quran, from which our dua is derived
Mazhar,
My post about Nusu was not addressed to brother Admin, but it was addressed to ZZ. Who is xismaili and converted in Sunnism and never left any stone unturned to criticize MHI and Ismaili sect.
My that post solely addressedto her not the Admin or anybody else. Lekin
Chalo ek aur Chamcha Zz ka aa gaya!
My post about Nusu was not addressed to brother Admin, but it was addressed to ZZ. Who is xismaili and converted in Sunnism and never left any stone unturned to criticize MHI and Ismaili sect.
My that post solely addressedto her not the Admin or anybody else. Lekin
Chalo ek aur Chamcha Zz ka aa gaya!
Ya Ali Madad.
As the quran has baatin component,so zahiri level reading n translating it would be disaster,fine example is the present ummah.
I just saw TV NEW YESTERDAYS STATING majority are sure that Islam
do not fit into todays human civilized social values.
the Farman which I remember is is' one should try to 'UNDERSTAND' the quran
and this can take lot n lot of time n dedication' BY THE PERSON TRYING TO understand it and just read it.(like mazhar posting first three line of preamble
with zero understanding of what it meant.
We have had our great pirs n Dai's who understood and represented to us in most beautiful manner.
We have Hazar Imam which is bolta quran for us according to ot need of the time.
Quran does goes at two to even three levels of understanding.
So wherereading goes it is sharia,which have move fowrded,
Quran it slef was distorted.
as part of Quran having hi spiritual value n some missing links are already in part of dua.
TRY TO UNDERSTAND IT FIRST.
IT'S CORE TRUTH N ESSENCE.
To Mazhar: Your intent is well n openly known to all by now.
I have asked three simple question in similar topic,you have not answered a word on it.
In A
Ayats of Quran TOPIC , I have asked question to all low status one
how would they like to God as.
MHI IS LAST 57 HAS DONE without political power or ruling a state has bulit institutions more than than 3 fatimid caliphs did with all ruling power n wealth than.
As major intitutions are based in Islamic countries,As a precaution
n well planned strategy.
The oppostion to Imamat was immense (very huge level) from rich oil
income countries having influence over Ummah n their governments.
One was the fear of the Jamaat n Not the Imam.
So to keep moving forward the Kalima was tweaked as done in constitution .I t would have great problems then in rectiting it with oppositons from Ummah.
So the kalima was to be read(not to be understood by ismailis) for cosmetic reasons.
as Aliuallah.
if Mohhamedurasullah where the word 'U' means is and whan it comes to
Aliuallah 'U' is to be taken as Ali is Allah for ismailis and Ali is from Allah
for monkeys following us closely with negative bias.
it can mean
1. the name n word Ali is from Allah.(true)
2.as per farman of Imam aga ali shah it should have been Allah from Ali.
So taking an example (little funny but has some sense).
Earlier it was egg+ chicken,
chicken is from' egg or egg 'is from' chicken.
till nobody has perfect answer.
As the quran has baatin component,so zahiri level reading n translating it would be disaster,fine example is the present ummah.
I just saw TV NEW YESTERDAYS STATING majority are sure that Islam
do not fit into todays human civilized social values.
the Farman which I remember is is' one should try to 'UNDERSTAND' the quran
and this can take lot n lot of time n dedication' BY THE PERSON TRYING TO understand it and just read it.(like mazhar posting first three line of preamble
with zero understanding of what it meant.
We have had our great pirs n Dai's who understood and represented to us in most beautiful manner.
We have Hazar Imam which is bolta quran for us according to ot need of the time.
Quran does goes at two to even three levels of understanding.
So wherereading goes it is sharia,which have move fowrded,
Quran it slef was distorted.
as part of Quran having hi spiritual value n some missing links are already in part of dua.
TRY TO UNDERSTAND IT FIRST.
IT'S CORE TRUTH N ESSENCE.
To Mazhar: Your intent is well n openly known to all by now.
I have asked three simple question in similar topic,you have not answered a word on it.
In A
Ayats of Quran TOPIC , I have asked question to all low status one
how would they like to God as.
MHI IS LAST 57 HAS DONE without political power or ruling a state has bulit institutions more than than 3 fatimid caliphs did with all ruling power n wealth than.
As major intitutions are based in Islamic countries,As a precaution
n well planned strategy.
The oppostion to Imamat was immense (very huge level) from rich oil
income countries having influence over Ummah n their governments.
One was the fear of the Jamaat n Not the Imam.
So to keep moving forward the Kalima was tweaked as done in constitution .I t would have great problems then in rectiting it with oppositons from Ummah.
So the kalima was to be read(not to be understood by ismailis) for cosmetic reasons.
as Aliuallah.
if Mohhamedurasullah where the word 'U' means is and whan it comes to
Aliuallah 'U' is to be taken as Ali is Allah for ismailis and Ali is from Allah
for monkeys following us closely with negative bias.
it can mean
1. the name n word Ali is from Allah.(true)
2.as per farman of Imam aga ali shah it should have been Allah from Ali.
So taking an example (little funny but has some sense).
Earlier it was egg+ chicken,
chicken is from' egg or egg 'is from' chicken.
till nobody has perfect answer.
Dear Fayazoo6,
With ref. to your Jan28, 2015 post, you quote," ------- therefore the carriculum will focus on the universal lessons and messages from Quran rather than teaching our student Arabic." Fayaz I have not emphsized on teaching of Arabic language. Please read my first post again, also my recent posting to kmaherali.I have explained how we can start Quran in JKs. Regarding curriculum, in my opinion 80's and 90's curriculum as taught by ITREB Karachi was better in substance in comparison to today's. You look like well versed in Quran. You know that just changing of zer, zabar, and pesh, meaning will be changed.Same applies to pronunciation of Du'a and Quran. Let me give an example, few weeks back in a JK where I was present, a kid 9/10 years old recited Du'a. I figured out it was his first time. Next to him was sitting teacher for cover up and encouragement. Believe me that kid made more than 100 mistakes. Now tell me what is the use of that kind of Du'a, and that is routine in North America. I can say 95% Du'a reciters make plenty of mistakes. It is so sad that after 50 years we are unable to correct our Du'a individually. In North America as I know RC classes are conducted mostly on weekends for 3 hours. They can spare 15 minutes to teach Du'a correctly. If we can learn Spanish, French, Italian, or any other language and try to speak correctly, than
why not Arabic too.
With ref. to your Jan28, 2015 post, you quote," ------- therefore the carriculum will focus on the universal lessons and messages from Quran rather than teaching our student Arabic." Fayaz I have not emphsized on teaching of Arabic language. Please read my first post again, also my recent posting to kmaherali.I have explained how we can start Quran in JKs. Regarding curriculum, in my opinion 80's and 90's curriculum as taught by ITREB Karachi was better in substance in comparison to today's. You look like well versed in Quran. You know that just changing of zer, zabar, and pesh, meaning will be changed.Same applies to pronunciation of Du'a and Quran. Let me give an example, few weeks back in a JK where I was present, a kid 9/10 years old recited Du'a. I figured out it was his first time. Next to him was sitting teacher for cover up and encouragement. Believe me that kid made more than 100 mistakes. Now tell me what is the use of that kind of Du'a, and that is routine in North America. I can say 95% Du'a reciters make plenty of mistakes. It is so sad that after 50 years we are unable to correct our Du'a individually. In North America as I know RC classes are conducted mostly on weekends for 3 hours. They can spare 15 minutes to teach Du'a correctly. If we can learn Spanish, French, Italian, or any other language and try to speak correctly, than
why not Arabic too.
Aghakhani,
With reference to your quote,"------ why not Vedas and Puranas, they are not less than Quran for Hindus, why they are not allowed in JK.---------,"
My question is do hindus allow recitation of Quran in their mandars, do jews allow recitation of Quran in their temples, do christians allow recitation of Quran in their churches?
I have been in mandars and churches , I never heard. Every religion and sect have their rules and authority. When they don't allow why we do. I have quoted pir Sadruddin,
PIR SADAR DIN YARA PARHEY QURAN
BAHER JAAWEY TAKU ANDAR LANA
What kind of Quran was Pir Sadruddin reading? By the way according to history he was doing kitabat of Quran also, and according to one account that was his livelihood
With reference to your quote,"------ why not Vedas and Puranas, they are not less than Quran for Hindus, why they are not allowed in JK.---------,"
My question is do hindus allow recitation of Quran in their mandars, do jews allow recitation of Quran in their temples, do christians allow recitation of Quran in their churches?
I have been in mandars and churches , I never heard. Every religion and sect have their rules and authority. When they don't allow why we do. I have quoted pir Sadruddin,
PIR SADAR DIN YARA PARHEY QURAN
BAHER JAAWEY TAKU ANDAR LANA
What kind of Quran was Pir Sadruddin reading? By the way according to history he was doing kitabat of Quran also, and according to one account that was his livelihood
Pir Sadardeen gave us the tafsir of the Qur'an and said that Allah is the Imam according to his study of the Qur'an. So I hope you will follow his message!mazhar wrote: PIR SADAR DIN YARA PARHEY QURAN
BAHER JAAWEY TAKU ANDAR LANA
What kind of Quran was Pir Sadruddin reading? By the way according to history he was doing kitabat of Quran also, and according to one account that was his livelihood
To mazhar (aastin ka saap):Ya Ali Madad.
You have definitely seen my GOD n your Imam.
I wish to how your God will be like as you are knowing person.
If I do go up at least I can say n wish Ya Ali Madad to your so called brand name 'Mr Allah'.
In a battle after Mehraj event, Prophet cried out 'Ya Ali Madad', inspite of being Rasool, he did NOT cry out to brand name Allah,Because within his heart he knew there was no one up there to respond to his crisis on Hand.
As an ismaili you can think his xerox copy,image or reflection (all means Mazhar) to build your answer.
How does your God would be like?
I am very sure that you are not even a C grade level Ismaili.
can you prove that also after the first question?
You have definitely seen my GOD n your Imam.
I wish to how your God will be like as you are knowing person.
If I do go up at least I can say n wish Ya Ali Madad to your so called brand name 'Mr Allah'.
In a battle after Mehraj event, Prophet cried out 'Ya Ali Madad', inspite of being Rasool, he did NOT cry out to brand name Allah,Because within his heart he knew there was no one up there to respond to his crisis on Hand.
As an ismaili you can think his xerox copy,image or reflection (all means Mazhar) to build your answer.
How does your God would be like?
I am very sure that you are not even a C grade level Ismaili.
can you prove that also after the first question?
Matter of facts we are reciting some Hindus Bhajans in JK!!! and they are reciting some Ismaili Ginans in their Mandirs too. last time I heard a Sindhi Ginans of pir Sadardin by a Sufi*!!! I have list of these Bhajan and Dhrol!!My question is do hindus allow recitation of Quran in their mandars, do jews allow recitation of Quran in their temples, do christians allow recitation of Quran in their churches?
About Tawrat, Zabur and Bible!!
-Are not we Muslims and even Ismailis accept these books as a holy books?
-Are not these books revealed from Allah? ( I am pretty sure it was not revealed from Sadardin!! )
-Are not these books teaching us the good things! what to do and what not to do?
-Are not these books teaching us about spirituality?
-Does not quran is Tafseer of these three books?
If your answer is yes then Why should we do not have to read these three books in JK too?
* Pakistan Radio and television relays Pir Sadardin Sindhi ginans on and off. Uthi allah na gur e bandhaa
* I personally heard a pir Sham's ginans composed on " Sati emana bai" from the mouth of Hindu Sadhu!!
What is wrong in above sentence MR. TRET? I do not see any thing wrong niether I wrote it wrong! about Gita, Gita, vedas and purans are a really good books to read and specially for you so, first read it and cry latter on! I bet you if you read it then you will find same teaching as Quran.Quote:
Gita is full with spirituality so does the Sam Ved and some purans!!!
I will suggest you to read following book:-
"Gita and Quran" In this book author beautifully compare some Quran's Ayas with some "Sloka" of Gita which are exactly match with each other!!. IS NOT SURPRISING ??/