Imame Mubeen is the crux of the matter. For Centuries Shia and Sunnis and then Ithna-asharis and Ismailis have disagreed on its meaning. Surely this subject is not going to end today.
I propose that we all take a break from this subject and talk of something else.
Ismailism is based on our interpretation of Imam e Mubeen, an interpretation that would never be acceptable to other (non) Muslims sects especially the ahl al Sunnah else obviously they would all become Ismailis, including zznoor.
Imam and Imamat
Admin wrote
To my understanding Up to Imam Jafar ra every body were Muslim and following Quran and Sunnah.
They prayed 5 Salat, prayed Jumma, performed Wadu and gusal,fasted in Ramadan, performed Haj and Umra and refrained from innovations.
Salam
For Allah's sake do not call those who follow Quran and Sunnah non Muim,Ismailism is based on our interpretation of Imam e Mubeen, an interpretation that would never be acceptable to other (non) Muslims sects especially the ahl al Sunnah else obviously they would all become Ismailis, including zznoor.
To my understanding Up to Imam Jafar ra every body were Muslim and following Quran and Sunnah.
They prayed 5 Salat, prayed Jumma, performed Wadu and gusal,fasted in Ramadan, performed Haj and Umra and refrained from innovations.
Salam
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s.frederick
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2014 2:21 pm
imam
zznoor - I was very happy reading all the information on this site, but lately
have been reading your comments. Get a grip and let go you are becoming like a broken record and like Admn says close this chapter
have been reading your comments. Get a grip and let go you are becoming like a broken record and like Admn says close this chapter
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shiraz.virani
- Posts: 1256
- Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 2:52 pm
(2:3) who believe in the unseen , establish the Salats and expend (in Our way) out of what We have bestowed on them;
this means: Belief in Gaib, establish Salats means to pray 5 canonical salat. ( you do not need any supporting Ahadiths since it is established Sunnah) and Zakat [/quote]
Are you reading the same Quran as the rest of us, there is not mention of how the Salat was to be performed. Therefore you don't know whether it was 5 times or more or less. As for you posting the hadith, the use of hadith was banned during the caliphate of Abu Bakr and Umer. The authenticity is always suspect and the hadith you posted doesn't match with the Quranic definition of a Muslim. You can bury your head in all of the rituals you perform and claim that that's proper Islam, the problem is that the Holy Book that you love to pick and chose does not support your assertions.
this means: Belief in Gaib, establish Salats means to pray 5 canonical salat. ( you do not need any supporting Ahadiths since it is established Sunnah) and Zakat [/quote]
Are you reading the same Quran as the rest of us, there is not mention of how the Salat was to be performed. Therefore you don't know whether it was 5 times or more or less. As for you posting the hadith, the use of hadith was banned during the caliphate of Abu Bakr and Umer. The authenticity is always suspect and the hadith you posted doesn't match with the Quranic definition of a Muslim. You can bury your head in all of the rituals you perform and claim that that's proper Islam, the problem is that the Holy Book that you love to pick and chose does not support your assertions.
There is also another problem with "Sunna". In the Quran the specific term that is mentioned is "Sunna of God" not Sunna of Mohammad. This is due to the fact that God has sent guidance through many Prophets and Imam's and their Sunna would be different that Mohammad's Sunna.
Besides the obvious problems of trying to figure the Sunna of Mohammad after he passed away, it is obvious that his particular way of life will not be compatible in the 21st century.
Besides the obvious problems of trying to figure the Sunna of Mohammad after he passed away, it is obvious that his particular way of life will not be compatible in the 21st century.
So if I were to take the above mentioned hadith at face value, than am I to assume that David, Jesus, Abraham and all 123999 Messengers that came before Mohammad were not Muslim since they did not pray like him?Hadith no: 386
Narrated / Authority of: Anas bin Malik
Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever prays like us and faces our Qibla and eats our slaughtered animals is a Muslim and is under Allah's and His Apostle's protection. So do not betray Allah by betraying those who are in His protection."
The above mentioned hadith cannot be authentic, therefore your arguments dont stand.
Brothers,
Are we not reheating same old stuff again and again? Do we really need it?
Namaz three time or five time is centuries old question!
Do you guys think this debate in this forum will solve this dispjge forewer? I don"t think so and for a one stupid person we do not need it.period
So go ahead and close this century old questionin a side for the real time to come.
and I am very optimistic this is going to happen soon.
Are we not reheating same old stuff again and again? Do we really need it?
Namaz three time or five time is centuries old question!
Do you guys think this debate in this forum will solve this dispjge forewer? I don"t think so and for a one stupid person we do not need it.period
So go ahead and close this century old questionin a side for the real time to come.
and I am very optimistic this is going to happen soon.
Salat/Namaaz are 5. This fact is accepted by both mainstream Shia, All factions of Sunnis and Ahmediya.Namaz three time or five time is centuries old question!
Salat can be combined and required Rakats can be reduced for reason in Sunni fique. Shia combine it for convince. They do pray 5 canonical Salat.
My last post on Salat/Namaz.
No need to do "Bhens aagal Bhagwat"
BTW there is no need for Quran or Hadith reference for 5 Salat or how to pray.
It is Established Sunnah.
Those who want to understand what is "Established Sunnah" should search. There are many article on it on net.
zznoor, I will be deleting your posts whenever I find again anything you have already reapeated 10 times.
As someone said, we do not need any broken record going round and round, we need clarity in the discussions. Also statement as "this is Islam and every body else is wrong" will not be tolerated here. As far as we know, you are not qualified or authorised to speak on behalf of Allah. We are the Ibn ul Waqht of the Prophet (PBUH) and we do not want to hear anything "Established" that will go against the instructions of our Prophet (PBUH) to always live with our time and not live in the past.
As someone said, we do not need any broken record going round and round, we need clarity in the discussions. Also statement as "this is Islam and every body else is wrong" will not be tolerated here. As far as we know, you are not qualified or authorised to speak on behalf of Allah. We are the Ibn ul Waqht of the Prophet (PBUH) and we do not want to hear anything "Established" that will go against the instructions of our Prophet (PBUH) to always live with our time and not live in the past.
Admin,
Lets close this thred whether salat mentioned five or three time in Quran or not, Majority biradarans believe it is not clearly quojted exactly five times but Rasoolullah was conducting it five times so that we R also perfwormong 5 times .so let them do for 5 times and let we stick on 3 times!
There are many interesting isues needs to be discussion so lets we all move forward in that direction
Lets close this thred whether salat mentioned five or three time in Quran or not, Majority biradarans believe it is not clearly quojted exactly five times but Rasoolullah was conducting it five times so that we R also perfwormong 5 times .so let them do for 5 times and let we stick on 3 times!
There are many interesting isues needs to be discussion so lets we all move forward in that direction
Not truefayaz006 wrote
So if I were to take the above mentioned hadith at face value, than am I to assume that David, Jesus, Abraham and all 123999 Messengers that came before Mohammad were not Muslim since they did not pray like him?
The above mentioned hadith cannot be authentic, therefore your arguments dont stand.
Prophet SAW is Khatimul Nabi according to Muslim belief.
Quran was revealed to him. Also he was instructed how to perform Salat, swam, hajj and principle of Zakat.
He announced his mission openly. Thousands of people saw his example.
This is what this hadith refers to. This does not apply to those who passed away before his call to Islam
Salaam
zznoor wrote:Not truefayaz006 wrote
So if I were to take the above mentioned hadith at face value, than am I to assume that David, Jesus, Abraham and all 123999 Messengers that came before Mohammad were not Muslim since they did not pray like him?
The above mentioned hadith cannot be authentic, therefore your arguments dont stand.
Prophet SAW is Khatimul Nabi according to Muslim belief.
Quran was revealed to him. Also he was instructed how to perform Salat, swam, hajj and principle of Zakat.
He announced his mission openly. Thousands of people saw his example.
This is what this hadith refers to. This does not apply to those who passed away before his call to Islam
Salaam
Dear zznoor -
There's a big problem with ahl-e-sunnah! You pretend to love and obey Rasullullah so much that you [ahl-e-sunnah] even mimic what Rasullullah was doing 1400 years ago. Apparently, this shows love and obedience to the Prophet (PBUH).
My question is, then why don't you [ahl-e-sunnah] don't obey the Prophet when He raised Maula Ali's hand and said "Min kunta Maula, Fa haza Ali Maula" [Ali is the Master of whom, I am thier Master?
You [ahl-e-sunnah] try to dissect and analyze the grammar and language being used by the Prophet at that time. If the entire message at that historic moment to simply tell people that Ali was His friend, this sounds rather silly. Because it was very very clear to everyone that Maula Ali was one of His very close friend and His cousin. There was no need to deliver this message [Ali is my friend] to thousands of people at Ghadir-e-khum.
In this context Maula means [Lord or Master], and you [ahl-e-sunnah] should have given your bayat [allegiance] to Maula Ali, like omar did [but he didn't do it wholeheartedly. He did it just to pretend that he is obeying the prophet.]
So, this sounds a bit ironic and hypocritic that you [ahl-e-sunnah] -- on the one hand -- say that we [ahl-e-sunnah] love and obey the prophet, and on the other hand, you sit there and dissect the Prophets last message to the ummah, find excuses and reasons to reject the very final and very important message of the Prophet.
Now, tell me my good friend, who is the true loyals and obedients of the Prophet?
@Tret.
I think you are trying to use reason with someone who prefers rituals instead of brains. The hadiths that the the sunni tariqa is founded on were written 200 + years after the Prophet who supposedly said it, died, during the abbasid empire. Without a beilief in an Imam to guide them, they had to rely solely on hadiths for guidance.
Even if the teachings of the hadith are completely contrary to what the Quran teaches, it is still ignored by some Sunnis. There are excuses of how the hadith only applies in this circumstance or another. To be honest, the tariqa that adheres to conformity, and rituals, rather than sound mind and reason, in my belief is contrary to the teachings of Islam.
Just be glad that our religious teachers, taught us to question and reason rather than obey and conform.
I think you are trying to use reason with someone who prefers rituals instead of brains. The hadiths that the the sunni tariqa is founded on were written 200 + years after the Prophet who supposedly said it, died, during the abbasid empire. Without a beilief in an Imam to guide them, they had to rely solely on hadiths for guidance.
Even if the teachings of the hadith are completely contrary to what the Quran teaches, it is still ignored by some Sunnis. There are excuses of how the hadith only applies in this circumstance or another. To be honest, the tariqa that adheres to conformity, and rituals, rather than sound mind and reason, in my belief is contrary to the teachings of Islam.
Just be glad that our religious teachers, taught us to question and reason rather than obey and conform.
Dear Fayaz -
True, and the very principal that divides ahl-e-sunnah from shia is the principle of Imamate; where shia believes in the presence of a Perfect Man through which one can actualize his soul and find salvation [doctrine of ta'lim], and ahl-e-sunnah says Qur'an is the final message and God decided to leave mankind with His final message and every man should be able to decode and understand the various layers of hidden truth in symbolism and mysticism of the ayats in the Qur'an.
If we apply reason, one with little effort and use of intellect would come to realization that without existence of A Perfect Man, apprehending of the divine and achieving salvation is impossible. Here's an analogy why?
Everything in this temporal world that has a potential to become actualized [or become perfect] requires some intervention by external force/entity. i.e. movement. Body won't move, until it's moved by another force. Or a piece of wood won't turn into a chair, should a carpenter not work the wood with his tools to make a chair. etc, etc...
Therefore, man's soul is potentially perfect and is in need of something for it [the individual soul] to become actualized. And that is non other than the Imam of the Time [Saheb-e-Zaman wal Asr].
I would love to hear what zznoor thinks about sufi doctrine, which is a branch of sunni. Please note, that I don't compare sufism with our Tariqa, which has some important differences, but nonetheless it has close affinity than other doctrines.
True, and the very principal that divides ahl-e-sunnah from shia is the principle of Imamate; where shia believes in the presence of a Perfect Man through which one can actualize his soul and find salvation [doctrine of ta'lim], and ahl-e-sunnah says Qur'an is the final message and God decided to leave mankind with His final message and every man should be able to decode and understand the various layers of hidden truth in symbolism and mysticism of the ayats in the Qur'an.
If we apply reason, one with little effort and use of intellect would come to realization that without existence of A Perfect Man, apprehending of the divine and achieving salvation is impossible. Here's an analogy why?
Everything in this temporal world that has a potential to become actualized [or become perfect] requires some intervention by external force/entity. i.e. movement. Body won't move, until it's moved by another force. Or a piece of wood won't turn into a chair, should a carpenter not work the wood with his tools to make a chair. etc, etc...
Therefore, man's soul is potentially perfect and is in need of something for it [the individual soul] to become actualized. And that is non other than the Imam of the Time [Saheb-e-Zaman wal Asr].
I would love to hear what zznoor thinks about sufi doctrine, which is a branch of sunni. Please note, that I don't compare sufism with our Tariqa, which has some important differences, but nonetheless it has close affinity than other doctrines.
Let us obey Allah by following his command to establish Salat, pray Jumma, fast in Ramadan and perform hajj if we can afford ittret
Now, tell me my good friend, who is the true loyals and obedients of the Prophet?
To pray Salat you do not need Hadith
I pray like my father and he prayed like his father. This is called "Established Sunnah". Fasting command is clear cut so is zakat and hajj
Dear zznoor -zznoor wrote:Let us obey Allah by following his command to establish Salat, pray Jumma, fast in Ramadan and perform hajj if we can afford ittret
Now, tell me my good friend, who is the true loyals and obedients of the Prophet?
To pray Salat you do not need Hadith
I pray like my father and he prayed like his father. This is called "Established Sunnah". Fasting command is clear cut so is zakat and hajj
This question of how you pray, how i pray has been going on for centuries. Until the fundamental issue that divides ahl-e-sunnah and shia is not settled, everything else will go in the drain.
So, my question back to you is if ahl-e-sunnah pretends to love the Prophet so much and are loyal to him, why refusing of the event of ghadir-e-khum?
Once you adhere the event of ghadir-e-khum, then everything else will fall into its place, the 5 times prayer, the fast, etc.. etc...
Tret,Now, tell me my good friend, who is the true loyals and obedients of the Prophet?
The above question was not asked me but I can not stop my self to give my opinion.
off course H. Ali (s.a.) was true loyal and obedient person to prophet Mohd (PBUH) for all the time, nobody can not find any where that H. Ali had ever denied or not obeyed the commands of prophet but H. Umar and H. Abu Bakar were not loyal and obedient to prophet!!! History reveals that they both had denied many orders/commands of prophet Mohd !!!but Ahl -e- Sunnah still consider them as close sahabis of prophet and gives more importance to them.
Not only this but Ahl-e-Sunnah also calling as an "AMIRUL MOMNIN" to Muawia, Yazid too? what a shame!!!
Zahir is Zahir and Batin is Batin. This is a concept that will never be understood by Ahl e Sunnah.
There are some Sufi Tariqas amongst the Sunnis, they are trying to reach to the Truth by they internal search. These Tariqas all look to Imams, particularly Hazrat Ali or Imam Jafar Sadiq, in a way similar to us Batinis.
But these are foreign concept for the bulk of Sunnis and no amount of convincing will ever succeed for that "majority."
There are some Sufi Tariqas amongst the Sunnis, they are trying to reach to the Truth by they internal search. These Tariqas all look to Imams, particularly Hazrat Ali or Imam Jafar Sadiq, in a way similar to us Batinis.
But these are foreign concept for the bulk of Sunnis and no amount of convincing will ever succeed for that "majority."
Actually sufi order is based on speculative phylosophy where ours is based on the doctrine of ta'lim (authoritative instruction). The presence of The Command at every age is very important which is the Master and The Lord.Admin wrote:Zahir is Zahir and Batin is Batin. This is a concept that will never be understood by Ahl e Sunnah.
There are some Sufi Tariqas amongst the Sunnis, they are trying to reach to the Truth by they internal search. These Tariqas all look to Imams, particularly Hazrat Ali or Imam Jafar Sadiq, in a way similar to us Batinis.
But these are foreign concept for the bulk of Sunnis and no amount of convincing will ever succeed for that "majority."
I am not sure about sufi branches looking up to Imams. Can you provide any references? It is certainly interesting.
Ya ALI Madad.
I was off the site.
was surprised tosee the dead rubbish floating again again.
Imam jaffer is gone so no point quoting him.
Who has proof of that?
Any person not living and lived earlier is Called as Dead.
so All entity before Imam no 49 are in true statement and legally no more.
Any statement of of non living is not valid even in legal parlance.
What Imam of the time time says today is BOLTA Quran its overrules and even changes what is said in Quran,hadith or sermon of earlier Imam.
Absolute faith in Living Imam is Sirat al mustakim.
My question was worded as "strength and not basic.
When any one refers to past history quote ,there is immense futile debate.
with some members out of frustration want to rise piglets and one wish to born as puppy dog in Imam's Household.
Digging n attachment into death may result in weakness in belief and faith.
Like druze of today got attached to memories of Imam Hakim bin Amrillah.
All firqa of today other than ismaili is because the valued dead material mote than a Living person.
Admin I do not know your age.Your will to live longer come by seeing your children or grand childrens OR gaping at photo of your parents or grandparents who are no more.
Gaping and getting attached to theer memories can lead to early death any few disbelief.
The mandate for Pir n Dais was to deliver the believers to the Imam of the time and He take over till eternity.
All pir n prophet with some miracle power were there in given period to get believers to the Imam.
thier mandate ended with their death with new pir, dai or prophet was needed it would the wish of ALI then n now.
So thiers material was like entrance material to Tariqat (campus) n then Deans takes over.
No need to make them as Cult hero and place the writings over the Living Imam.
Then the level gets stuck in progression to Tawhid.
My strength comes from MHI Farmans n Ibadat.
In my past lives it was the same with those Imam of the time.
Imam SMS advised 130 years back to then khojas of Kathiwar to go to Africa. It was 130 years back and not year 2014.
now giving full regard to material from 49 th Imam.
Murid have moved onward to UK n Canada etc.
so getting stuck to prescrption of 130 or 1300 years is USELESS 90% of the time.
Just 35 years back. I thought London would be defacto base of ismailis but listening to MHI speech in 2104 .few days back ,It seem that Toronto would be it.
Can anyone guess what place it may 40 years ahead.
even digging into recent past of just 35 years old can be misleading
so imagine what has happened to this Ummah from last 1350 years.
I assume Canadian Ismailis like the Past ,so the museum was opened there.
I personally like the guide to hold my hand today not not anybody who cannot come out of the grave,so why should I go gaga over what they wrote then.It was for then Audience profile then.
I stand by wordings of my question.
It was not pertaining to history.
I was off the site.
was surprised tosee the dead rubbish floating again again.
Imam jaffer is gone so no point quoting him.
Who has proof of that?
Any person not living and lived earlier is Called as Dead.
so All entity before Imam no 49 are in true statement and legally no more.
Any statement of of non living is not valid even in legal parlance.
What Imam of the time time says today is BOLTA Quran its overrules and even changes what is said in Quran,hadith or sermon of earlier Imam.
Absolute faith in Living Imam is Sirat al mustakim.
My question was worded as "strength and not basic.
When any one refers to past history quote ,there is immense futile debate.
with some members out of frustration want to rise piglets and one wish to born as puppy dog in Imam's Household.
Digging n attachment into death may result in weakness in belief and faith.
Like druze of today got attached to memories of Imam Hakim bin Amrillah.
All firqa of today other than ismaili is because the valued dead material mote than a Living person.
Admin I do not know your age.Your will to live longer come by seeing your children or grand childrens OR gaping at photo of your parents or grandparents who are no more.
Gaping and getting attached to theer memories can lead to early death any few disbelief.
The mandate for Pir n Dais was to deliver the believers to the Imam of the time and He take over till eternity.
All pir n prophet with some miracle power were there in given period to get believers to the Imam.
thier mandate ended with their death with new pir, dai or prophet was needed it would the wish of ALI then n now.
So thiers material was like entrance material to Tariqat (campus) n then Deans takes over.
No need to make them as Cult hero and place the writings over the Living Imam.
Then the level gets stuck in progression to Tawhid.
My strength comes from MHI Farmans n Ibadat.
In my past lives it was the same with those Imam of the time.
Imam SMS advised 130 years back to then khojas of Kathiwar to go to Africa. It was 130 years back and not year 2014.
now giving full regard to material from 49 th Imam.
Murid have moved onward to UK n Canada etc.
so getting stuck to prescrption of 130 or 1300 years is USELESS 90% of the time.
Just 35 years back. I thought London would be defacto base of ismailis but listening to MHI speech in 2104 .few days back ,It seem that Toronto would be it.
Can anyone guess what place it may 40 years ahead.
even digging into recent past of just 35 years old can be misleading
so imagine what has happened to this Ummah from last 1350 years.
I assume Canadian Ismailis like the Past ,so the museum was opened there.
I personally like the guide to hold my hand today not not anybody who cannot come out of the grave,so why should I go gaga over what they wrote then.It was for then Audience profile then.
I stand by wordings of my question.
It was not pertaining to history.
Yes so sad!
When Imam says "I am Imam Hussein", this guy says Imam Hussein is DEAD! How can he be dead. Hazar Imam says Farmans of the Past Imams are MY Farmans. What an insult to past Imams so say they are Dead! Imam never dies... he only change names. Only new Farmans can abrogate old Farmans, it does not matter if they are Farmans of the present Imam or the past Imams. All the Farmans of Mowlana Ali are still valide unless abrogated by a subsequent Imam.
When Imam says "I am Imam Hussein", this guy says Imam Hussein is DEAD! How can he be dead. Hazar Imam says Farmans of the Past Imams are MY Farmans. What an insult to past Imams so say they are Dead! Imam never dies... he only change names. Only new Farmans can abrogate old Farmans, it does not matter if they are Farmans of the present Imam or the past Imams. All the Farmans of Mowlana Ali are still valide unless abrogated by a subsequent Imam.
MHI at the opening of the Ismaili Centre in Toronto said:nuseri wrote:Ya ALI Madad.
Any person not living and lived earlier is Called as Dead.
so All entity before Imam no 49 are in true statement and legally no more.
Any statement of of non living is not valid even in legal parlance.
"As we inaugurate this building, we also have the opportunity to contemplate what it represents: the inspiring traditions of the past, the stirring challenges of the future, and the continuing search for peace through prayer."
What are the inspiring traditions of the past?
There is a saying of Hazarat Ali which states that a learned person lives even after his death whereas an ignorant is dead even when he is alive.
Ya Ali Madad.
Point well taken.
One is a legal stand of reality and other out of emotions n religious sentiments( dharmik Bhavna).
the word used of MHI was traditions relating to objects n arte facts of those periods for and not in particular to saying of past Imam.
The best of ismailism is they have living Imam and Ibadat to praactice n feel n see reality.
We do have traditional material of inspiration n cultures.
I have said strength which come from a Living Imam n inspiration out of farmans n speeches are more valid n useful to us.
when material of dead is there is is lot of fake n untrue get added to it.
like hadiths ans of imam jaffer which 12ers have hyped.
for12er,Imam looked like normal human beings but after disappearance
He will look this n that n what not.
All material of past rightly done by MHI should belong to museums and not be a part of daily life.(gone is bygone)
Samaj ne walo ki ishara kafi hai.
Will any one of us live in the past or future?
so present saying is very useful for strength ans past material can be again 90% not useful in present time.
85% of time is wasted is digging info of the past with most being not true
in replying to each other in the forum.
To tret:Ya Ali Madad.
there are tribal sufi folk singers Sunni who are in Rajasthan,India, they sing sufi qawwalis.
I have heard them live n may be also there on youtube.
All their qawwali are centered around the word ALI.
When they get into trance while singing the word originally written as Allah in their text n composition comes out as ALI ALI.
at that time their vocal chord is taken over none other than ALI.
MY PERSONAL VOTE IS FOR ALI. WHICH TAKES CARE OF ALL NAME OF THE GOD AND 49 NAMES OF IMAM.
I AM LIVING TODAY SO I NEED INTELLECT FROM A LIVING GUIDE IN CONTEXT OF THE TIME.
SO THE SCOPE OF DEAD MATERIAL MAY BE LIMITED FOR ME.
Point well taken.
One is a legal stand of reality and other out of emotions n religious sentiments( dharmik Bhavna).
the word used of MHI was traditions relating to objects n arte facts of those periods for and not in particular to saying of past Imam.
The best of ismailism is they have living Imam and Ibadat to praactice n feel n see reality.
We do have traditional material of inspiration n cultures.
I have said strength which come from a Living Imam n inspiration out of farmans n speeches are more valid n useful to us.
when material of dead is there is is lot of fake n untrue get added to it.
like hadiths ans of imam jaffer which 12ers have hyped.
for12er,Imam looked like normal human beings but after disappearance
He will look this n that n what not.
All material of past rightly done by MHI should belong to museums and not be a part of daily life.(gone is bygone)
Samaj ne walo ki ishara kafi hai.
Will any one of us live in the past or future?
so present saying is very useful for strength ans past material can be again 90% not useful in present time.
85% of time is wasted is digging info of the past with most being not true
in replying to each other in the forum.
To tret:Ya Ali Madad.
there are tribal sufi folk singers Sunni who are in Rajasthan,India, they sing sufi qawwalis.
I have heard them live n may be also there on youtube.
All their qawwali are centered around the word ALI.
When they get into trance while singing the word originally written as Allah in their text n composition comes out as ALI ALI.
at that time their vocal chord is taken over none other than ALI.
MY PERSONAL VOTE IS FOR ALI. WHICH TAKES CARE OF ALL NAME OF THE GOD AND 49 NAMES OF IMAM.
I AM LIVING TODAY SO I NEED INTELLECT FROM A LIVING GUIDE IN CONTEXT OF THE TIME.
SO THE SCOPE OF DEAD MATERIAL MAY BE LIMITED FOR ME.