That's exactly why everyone follows their own path. Ours [ismaili] path is the straight path [sirat-ul-mustaqim]. You are more than welcome to follow christianity, judasim, hindusim, wahabism etc and read gita, sita, rama, sharma..., but for me, I am sticking with my own ismaili tariqa and let jews follow judasim, hindus follow hindusim.
Tret, I dunno whats your take on other religions but I personally think all the religions, their books, their way of practice is all inter connected.
All agakhani bhai is trying to do is to show you that the fasting did not started with islam...this practice has been there since god knows how long.
Now we all can run behind esoteric/ exoteric and all other bull crap but the fact is that we all follow the holy quran and our role model = imam e zaman [who himself fasts in ramadan]...I say its about time that we learn from our role model rather than beating bushes with all the esoteric and exoteric bull crap.
Jews and Christians are called people of book but their books were changed and hence need for new and final book.
Wrong !!!....What we have today is what is left of holy quran.
Jews are allowed to consume wine. Muslim are not. Christians are allowed to consume Pork and non Halal meat. Muslims are not. This is in Quran.
1st of all, you do not know the true meaning of halal and here you are talking about other faith ???
The term Halal in-short means "Permissable"
Just like you I had this mullah once asking me why I eat at mcdonalds when its meat is not halal...I asked him who said its not halal ??...Is the meat of chicken halal in islam, he said "yes"...but he added "its not zabiha"...I said where does it say in holy quran that the animal or the bird should be slayed in such and such way...he said "its in sunnah"... I asked him do you follow the word of allah[swt] or the words of some XYZ people who thought they heard our rasool[saw] saying so and so...He paused looked into his watch, said he was in a rush and walked away.
If Jews were required to fast on certain days, we are not obliged to fast on those days. Muslims are to fast in the month of Ramadan and that is crystal clear
I agree, as a muslim a person has to fast in the month of ramadan, I read about this incident on the very forum where our imam was visiting canada and the news was the he was fasting since it was the month of ramadan.
But this doesnt give us the license to go ballistic on those who don't....you and me and not allah[swt] so lets just stop judging people
Quranic Verses on the Month of Ramadan and Fasting
"Ramadan is the (month) in which the Quran was sent down, as a guide to mankind and a clear guidance and judgment (so that mankind will distinguish from right and wrong).." (Q 2:183)
Oh you who believe! Fasting is prescribed to you as it was prescribed to those before you, that you many learn piety and righteousness" (Q 2:183)
Fasting is prescribed for you as it was prescribed for those before you, that you may attain taqwaa." (Q2:183)
The most honored by Allah amongst you are those best in taqwaa."(Q 49:13)
..And it is better for you that ye fast, if ye only knew." (Q 2:184)
"Indeed We have revealed it (Qur'an) in the night of Power. And what will explain to you what the night of Power is? The night of Power is better than a thousand months. Therein descends the Angels and the Spirit (Jibreel) by Allah's permission, on every errand: (they say) "Peace" (continuously) till the rise of Morning!" (Q 97:1-5)
We sent it (this Qur'an) down on a blessed Night. Verily, We are ever warning (mankind of Our Torment). Therein (that Night) is decreed every matter of ordainment. Amran (i.e. a command or this Qur'an or His Decree of every matter) from Us. Verily, We are ever sending (the Messenger). (As) a Mercy from your Lord. Verily! He is the All-Hearer, the All-Knower." (Ad-Dukhaan 44: 3-6)
That's exactly why everyone follows their own path. Ours [ismaili] path is the straight path [sirat-ul-mustaqim]. You are more than welcome to follow christianity, judasim, hindusim, wahabism etc and read gita, sita, rama, sharma..., but for me, I am sticking with my own ismaili tariqa and let jews follow judasim, hindus follow hindusim.
Tret, I dunno whats your take on other religions but I personally think all the religions, their books, their way of practice is all inter connected.
All agakhani bhai is trying to do is to show you that the fasting did not started with islam...this practice has been there since god knows how long.
Now we all can run behind esoteric/ exoteric and all other bull crap but the fact is that we all follow the holy quran and our role model = imam e zaman [who himself fasts in ramadan]...I say its about time that we learn from our role model rather than beating bushes with all the esoteric and exoteric bull crap.
Shiraz - I respect other religions and faith; however, I may not know much about them. I hardly try to keep up with my own religion [Ismaili]; let alone exploring other religions. I agree that all religions at its heart have common denominators, provided its theist, especially all Abrahimic faith; and I entirely respect them. And that's why one chooses which path to follow. We are on Ismaili path, and we must follow that.
Question of fast: No body claimed that fast started with Islam. Please go back and re-read the discussion. So, I am not sure why agakhani out of the blue without anybody asking or saying anything about root of fast, claims so. I am sure the concept of fast must have long history and any religion could very well practice fast one way or the other, but that's not what we are talking about. We are talking specifically about our religion and we should know it, than rather stay in ignorance and say 'oh they are all the same, who cares'
I am sure indian jama'at know all kinds of fast, but the topic of discussion and the question now, is the fast which is observed during the month of ramadan and not any other type of fast that a wife observes for her husband, or for half day or so on.
My only question was to admin who said that some fasts were declared haram. And I just want to clarify, if ramadan fast is amongst them. if it's where it's declared, if it's some other fast, than that's that.
Oh and one more thing, I don't thing it would be appreciated, if the esoteric school of thought is call crap.
The Messenger of Allah (saw) said, "When the month of Ramadan starts, the gates of the heaven are opened and the gates of Hell are closed and the devils are chained." (Imam Bukhari) ...
Narrated Abu Huraira(r.a): The Messenger of Allah (saw) said:"... whoever fasts during Ramadan out of sincere faith and hoping to attain Allah's rewards, then all his past sins will be forgiven." (Imam Bukhari).
The Messenger of Allah (saw) addressed his companions on the last day of Sha`ban, saying, "Oh people! A great month has come over you; a blessed month; a month in which is a night better than a thousand months; month in which Allah has made it compulsory upon you to fast by day, and voluntary to pray by night. Whoever draws nearer (to Allah) by performing any of the (optional) good deeds in (this month) shall receive the same reward as performing an obligatory deed at any other time, and whoever discharges an obligatory deed in (this month) shall receive the reward of performing seventy obligations at any other time. It is the month of patience, and the reward of patience is Heaven. It is the month of charity, and a month in which a believer's sustenance is increased. Whoever gives food to a fasting person to break his fast, shall have his sins forgiven, and he will be saved from the Fire of Hell, and he shall have the same reward as the fasting person, without his reward being diminished at all." [Narrated by Ibn Khuzaymah]
Abu Said al-Khudri reported that the Messenger of Allah (saw), said: "No servant fasts on a day in the path of Allah except that Allah removes the hellfire seventy years further away from his face." This is related by "the group," except for Imam Abu Dawud.
`Abdullah ibn `Amr reported that the Messenger of Allah (saw), said: "The fast and the Qur'an are two intercessors for the servant of Allah on the Day of Resurrection. The fast will say: 'O Lord, I prevented him from his food and desires during the day. Let me intercede for him.' The Qur'an will say: 'I prevented him from sleeping at night. Let me intercede for him.' And their intercession will be accepted." [Imam Ahmad]
Abu Umamah reported: "I came to the Messenger of Allah (saw) and said: 'Order me to do a deed that will allow me to enter Paradise.' He said: 'Stick to fasting, as there is no equivalent to it.' Then I came to him again and he said: 'Stick to fasting."' [Imam Ahmad, Imam Nasa'i, and Imam Hakim].
Sahl ibn Sa'd reported that the Messenger of Allah (saw): "There is a gate to Paradise that is called ar-Rayyan. On the Day of Resurrection it will say: 'Where are those who fasted?' When the last [one] has passed through the gate, it will be locked." [Imam Bukhari and Imam Muslim].
He who is amongst those who pray will be called from the gate of the prayer (in Paradise) and he who is from the people of Jihad will be called from the gate of Jihad, and he who is from those' who give in charity (i.e. Zakat) will be called from the gate of charity, and he who is amongst those who observe fast will be called from the gate of fasting, the gate of Raiyan." Abu Bakr said, "He who is called from all those gates will need nothing," He added, "Will anyone be called from all those gates, O Allah's Apostle?" He said, "Yes, and I hope you will be among those, O Abu Bakr." [Imam Bukhari]
Abu Hurairah reported that the Messenger of Allah (saw) said : "The time between the five prayers, two consecutive Friday Prayers, and two consecutive Ramadans are expiations for all that has happened during that period, provided that one has avoided the grave (major) sins." [Imam Muslim]
In another hadith, the Messenger of Allah (saw) says, "Ramadan has come to you. (It is) a month of blessing, in which Allah covers you with blessing, for He sends down Mercy, decreases sins and answers prayers. In it, Allah looks at your competition (in good deeds), and boasts about you to His angels. So show Allah goodness from yourselves, for the unfortunate one is he who is deprived in (this month) of the mercy of Allah, the Mighty, the Exalted." [ImamTabarani]
Abu Umaamah r.a.a. said: I said: 'O Messenger of Allah (saw), tell me of an action by which I may enter Paradise'. He said: 'Take to Fasting, there is nothing like it.' [Imam Nasai’, Ibn Hibbaan, Al-Haakim, Saheeh]
Every action of the son of Adam is given manifold reward, each good deed receiving then times its like, up to seven hundred times. Allah the Most High said, 'Except for fasting, for it is for Me and I will give recompense for it, he leaves off his desires and his food for Me.' for the fasting person there are two times of joy; a time when he breaks his fast and a time of joy when he meets his Lord, and the smell coming from the mouth of the fasting person is better with Allah than the smell of musk." [Imam Bukhari]
"Fasting is a shield with which a servant protects himself from the Fire." [Imam Ahmad, Saheeh]
On the Day of Judgement, "Fasting will say: O My Lord I prevented him from food and desires so accept my intercession for him." [Imam Ahmad, Imam Haakim and Abu Nu'aim, Hasan]
There are in the month of Ramadhan in every day and night those to whom Allah grants freedom from the Fire, and there is for every Muslim an supplication which he can make and will be granted." [al-Bazzaar, Ahmad, Saheeh]
The Messenger of Allah (saw) said: He who gives food for a fasting person to break his fast, he will receive the same reward as him, except that nothing will be reduced from the fasting persons reward." [Ahmad, at-Tirmidhee, Ibn Maajah, Ibn Hibbaan, Saheeh].
Shiraz - I respect other religions and faith; however, I may not know much about them. I hardly try to keep up with my own religion [Ismaili]; let alone exploring other religions. I agree that all religions at its heart have common denominators, provided its theist, especially all Abrahimic faith; and I entirely respect them. And that's why one chooses which path to follow. We are on Ismaili path, and we must follow that.
1st of... my apologies as i did not read the whole thing from the beginning and im glad that you respect all the religions.
Question of fast: No body claimed that fast started with Islam. Please go back and re-read the discussion. So, I am not sure why agakhani out of the blue without anybody asking or saying anything about root of fast, claims so. I am sure the concept of fast must have long history and any religion could very well practice fast one way or the other, but that's not what we are talking about. We are talking specifically about our religion and we should know it, than rather stay in ignorance and say 'oh they are all the same, who cares'
I agree
My only question was to admin who said that some fasts were declared haram. And I just want to clarify, if ramadan fast is amongst them. if it's where it's declared, if it's some other fast, than that's that.
Ramadan fast is amongst those that are declared haram by the imam ???
Oh and one more thing, I don't thing it would be appreciated, if the esoteric school of thought is call crap.
Not at all !!!....What I meant was just like the shariatis use hadiths as their tool , few ismailis choose to put esoteric into almost everything like be it fasting or flag hosting, lol
zznoor, you can fast as many days a year as you please but for Allah's sake, stop flooding us with copy paste of questionable Hadiths on fasting /
Instead let us know about specific events when the Prophet fasted in the manner you describe. Tell us about those 5 days he was pasing through Jewish area where jews were fasting and he also respected them by joining them in their fast.
And the very few other days where he fasted.
Please also explain to us that fasting and absteining is 2 different things as you can abstain from food but also from talking as Issa nabi and his mother did and you can also abstain from bad thoughts as many Muslim do not do during the month of Holy Ramadan.
zznoor, you can fast as many days a year as you please but for Allah's sake, stop flooding us with copy paste of questionable Hadiths on fasting /
For you every hadith is questionable except one supports your VP.
Now tell us which of the commands of Quran were made haram by questionable Imam?
For Real Muslims what is Halal cannot be made Haram and what is Haram cannot be made Halal by anybody except Prophet and we will not have new Prophet.
Fore Ismailis even Quran is questionable!!!
Now be brave and name fast made Haram by Imam.
but for me, I am sticking with my own ismaili tariqa and let jews follow judasim, hindus follow hindusim.
You should be feel shame to consider your self as an Ismaili why? because you do not have faith in Ismaili ginans and also do not believes or acceept the farmans of Ismaili Imams which I posted earlier on the subject of 'Ali Sahi Allah"! in those farmans you found many mistakes as your old habits, in 3 Ismailis Imams farmans which were uttered from their holy mouth. any person( you) who finds mistakes in MHI" farmans can not consider himself an Ismaili. period.
You are not an Ismaili but you are the puppet of your mentor. would you like to know your mentor?.
Thanks Shiraz,
You understand what I meant? about the history of fasting which is not started after Islam but it was there before.
to zz noor!
it is your misconception that we ismailis consider Quran questionable.we consider interpretations of Quran that you make to be questionable.as Quran says
"AND IF THEY HAD REFERRED IT TO THE MESSENGER AND TO THOSE IN AUTHORITY AMONG THEM,THOSE OF THEM WHO CAN SEARCH OUT KNOWLEDGE OF IT WOULD HAVE KNOWN IT.AND WERE IT NOT FOR THE GRACE OF ALLAH UPON YOU AND HIS MERCY UPON YOU AND HIS MERCY,YOU WOULD HAVE FOLLOWED THE DEVIL SAVE A FEW"(CH.3 VERSE NO.40)
In above ayat of Quran who is referred to "those in authority among them"?
according to Ismaili approach they are Imams.
again in chapter3 verse no.59 it says
''O YE WHO BELIEVE,OBEY ALLAH AND OBEY THE MESSENGER AND THOSE IN AUTHORITY AMONG YOU"
In this ayat we believe that Shib-e- amar is imam of time.
So we ismailis believe that after prophet he is imam of time who should be obeyed who is appointed by Allah himself.we belive in taawil of qurqn and shariat not in tanzil.and taawil comes through A GUIDE who can only be prophet or imam or he who is appointed by imam.we donot consider hadiths to be true source of guidence as they have been collected by people themselves.if these were to to be a source of guidence then prophet should have got jot them down in his own lifetime and would have not left this responsibility on thousands of those people who can get mislead any time who are not MASOOM ANIL KHATA in any way.we believe that just as prophet, imam is also MASOOM and is the most perfect man on earth so we follow him.our imam has never said to consider haram things mentioned in Quran to be halal.for ismailis what is haram is haram and what is halal is halal.the only thing comes in practice of obligations.we follow each obligation mentioned in quran but in its batuni form,its taawil not tanzil.what is the essence of keeping fast?infact it is taqwa.our teachings say us to practice taqwa all the year;to to fight your nafs e amaara all the time:to consider Allah to be present everywhere and thus to refrain from sins all the day and night.we follow all pillars of islam in its batuni form as we beleive that essence of every ibaadat never changes the only thing that changes is its outer form not its core.
sujjawal wrote:to zz noor!
it is your misconception that we ismailis consider Quran questionable.we consider interpretations of Quran that you make to be questionable.as Quran says
"AND IF THEY HAD REFERRED IT TO THE MESSENGER AND TO THOSE IN AUTHORITY AMONG THEM,THOSE OF THEM WHO CAN SEARCH OUT KNOWLEDGE OF IT WOULD HAVE KNOWN IT.AND WERE IT NOT FOR THE GRACE OF ALLAH UPON YOU AND HIS MERCY UPON YOU AND HIS MERCY,YOU WOULD HAVE FOLLOWED THE DEVIL SAVE A FEW"(CH.3 VERSE NO.40)
In above ayat of Quran who is referred to "those in authority among them"?
according to Ismaili approach they are Imams.
again in chapter3 verse no.59 it says
''O YE WHO BELIEVE,OBEY ALLAH AND OBEY THE MESSENGER AND THOSE IN AUTHORITY AMONG YOU"
In this ayat we believe that Shib-e- amar is imam of time.
So we ismailis believe that after prophet he is imam of time who should be obeyed who is appointed by Allah himself.we belive in taawil of qurqn and shariat not in tanzil.and taawil comes through A GUIDE who can only be prophet or imam or he who is appointed by imam.we donot consider hadiths to be true source of guidence as they have been collected by people themselves.if these were to to be a source of guidence then prophet should have got jot them down in his own lifetime and would have not left this responsibility on thousands of those people who can get mislead any time who are not MASOOM ANIL KHATA in any way.we believe that just as prophet, imam is also MASOOM and is the most perfect man on earth so we follow him.our imam has never said to consider haram things mentioned in Quran to be halal.for ismailis what is haram is haram and what is halal is halal.the only thing comes in practice of obligations.we follow each obligation mentioned in quran but in its batuni form,its taawil not tanzil.what is the essence of keeping fast?infact it is taqwa.our teachings say us to practice taqwa all the year;to to fight your nafs e amaara all the time:to consider Allah to be present everywhere and thus to refrain from sins all the day and night.we follow all pillars of islam in its batuni form as we beleive that essence of every ibaadat never changes the only thing that changes is its outer form not its core.
Sujjawal,
I thought you just coverted your self in Ismaism, if it is true then I should have to give you big praise about the knowledge you have so far.
Good job brother.
sujjawal wrote:to zz noor!
it is your misconception that we ismailis consider Quran questionable.we consider interpretations of Quran that you make to be questionable.as Quran says
"AND IF THEY HAD REFERRED IT TO THE MESSENGER AND TO THOSE IN AUTHORITY AMONG THEM,THOSE OF THEM WHO CAN SEARCH OUT KNOWLEDGE OF IT WOULD HAVE KNOWN IT.AND WERE IT NOT FOR THE GRACE OF ALLAH UPON YOU AND HIS MERCY UPON YOU AND HIS MERCY,YOU WOULD HAVE FOLLOWED THE DEVIL SAVE A FEW"(CH.3 VERSE NO.40) Sorry I could not find it, I am not blind.
This is 3:40
Pickthal 3:40] He said: My Lord! How can I have a son when age hath overtaken me already and my wife is barren? (The angel) answered: So (it will be). Allah doeth what He will.
In above ayat of Quran who is referred to "those in authority among them"?
according to Ismaili approach they are Imams.
again in chapter3 verse no.59 it says
''O YE WHO BELIEVE,OBEY ALLAH AND OBEY THE MESSENGER AND THOSE IN AUTHORITY AMONG YOU" You must really understand what real meaning of "THOSE IN AUTHORITY AMONG YOU". It will help if you read Maudidi's comment on 4:59. You will find it on tafheem.net/tafheem.html
In this ayat we believe that Shib-e- amar is imam of time.So we ismailis believe that after prophet he isimam of time who should be obeyed who is appointed by Allah himself.
[/color][/b]Prove it by using only Quranic Ayas, No hadith,no complicated explanations please[/color][/b]
we belive in taawil of qurqn Where can I find it except claims by Murids of various Godman who claim their Murshid is possessor of Tawil.
and shariat not in tanzil.and taawil comes through A GUIDE who can only be prophet or imam or he who is appointed by imam.
we donot consider hadiths to be true source of guidence as they have been collected by people themselves. Except one which supports your POV
if these were to to be a source of guidence then prophet should have got jot them down in his own lifetime and would have not left this responsibility on thousands of those people who can get mislead any time who are not MASOOM ANIL KHATA in any way. Read history of Ahadith. Sahabas started to jot down after prophet permitted to take notes
we believe that just as prophet, imam is also MASOOM You must be kidding, Read up on your Imam, I do not want to be banned but educate yourself
and is the most perfect man on earth O ya? so we follow him.
our imam has never said to consider haram things mentioned in Quran to be halal.Check with Admin, he is urged to say which fasts were made Haraam
for ismailis what is haram is haram and what is halal is halal.the only thing comes in practice of obligations.we follow each obligation mentioned in quran but in its batuni form,its taawil not tanzil.Can you describe how prophet prayed 5 Batuni Salat, how he fasted Batuni fast in Ramadan, how he performed Batuni Hajj?you may use Hadith even though you think they are Phoney
what is the essence of keeping fast?infact it is taqwa.our teachings say us to practice taqwa all the year;to to fight your nafs e amaara all the time:to consider Allah to be present everywhere and thus to refrain from sins all the day and night.Does that applies to all including holy family?
we follow all pillars of islam in its batuni form you must educate non Ismailies how you do it Batuni way as we beleive that essence of every ibaadat never changes the only thing that changes is its outer form not its core.
The unscrupulous and evil leaders of the sects who propagate these terms claim that the understanding of all religious Knowledge is their responsibility and monopoly alone; and if the common man wants to know anything about the deen, they must obey and follow them unconditionally! They also make sure and absolutely discourage their followers from ever understanding the Book that contains the biggest and best Knowledge of Truth there is in this Universe: The Al-Quran! And once they have taken the understanding of the Quran out of the system of their followers, these poor helpless people follow and obey whatever their unscrupulous and evil leaders command!
Little do these unscrupulous and self-made leaders of misguided sects understand what severe penalty and punishment awaits them for their evil deeds! Allah says in the Holy Quran Chapter 2 Surah Al-Baqarah verse 174: Indeed those, who conceal the commands that Allah has sent down in His Book and barter them away for paltry worldly gains, fill their bellies with fire. Allah will not speak to them on the Day of Resurrection, nor will He regard them as pure and there is a painful torment for them!
Allah says in the Holy Quran Chapter 2 Surah Baqarah verse 159: Those who conceal the clear (Revelations) and Guidance We have sent down, after We have made it clear for the people in the Book, on them shall be Allah’s ‘laanah’ and the ‘laanah’ of those who are entitled to curse!
it is your misconception that we ismailis consider Quran questionable.we consider interpretations of Quran that you make to be questionable.as Quran says
You must not have all the threads
Read "is Quran complete" thread
You will learn that as per imam SMS, there are 10 additional chapter in his possession and According to him some things were taken out and some things were put in it.
He was also going to write it down but Allah called him home before he can write one single letter.
Now Imams are Masooms so whatever they say is truth. This definitely makes
Quran questionable.
Many reasons not to be Ismaili, including this Hadith
From Bukhari, book of Prayers
Hadith no: 386
Narrated / Authority of: Anas bin Malik
Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever prays like us and faces our Qibla and eats our slaughtered animals is a Muslim and is under Allah's and His Apostle's protection. So do not betray Allah by betraying those who are in His protection."
Ismaili do not pray like Prophet and do not face his Qibla.
As we said you are free to believe in whatever Hadith you want by whatever person of sound or unsound mind you like.
No compulsion in Faith. That is OUR Islam. Yes Imams are Pure and that is not going to change with whatever Hadith you believe in.
The Right Path, Sirat al Mustaqueem follows the Imam, that is the Ismaili faith. That is also why we do not wonder in Sunni Forums trying to find our Truth. He who has foud the Imam, his search has come to an end.
Last edited by Admin on Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
To zznnor:Ya Ali Madad.
you posted two ayat from Quran and many shit from fake hadiths on fasting.
" Fasting is prescribed for you as it was prescribed for those before you, that you may attain taqwaa." (Q2:183)
the meaning of the word 'taqwa' on wikipedia.
is Enlightenment .
and the concluding of the defination say"Taqwa has major role in the mystical side of Islam and it on of th e sataions of the Sufi.
the Ayat clearly says ,that was also prescribed to people before Quran also.
there is no IMMD reward on fasting.
But ALI pick n chooses his word perfectly says they MAY attain "taqwa".(all cannot)
in next ayat ALI says those who are best in Taqwa are honored not in sky but
ALI/MHI on earth.
Firstly Taqwa is an advance Baatin stage whom Mullahs are in Mystery till now.
the reward is honour (it is not heaven,blah blah the SHIT hadith of yours
may be printed on toilet paper).
Noe we see only the GREAT Khidmatgars are honoured by ALI during all time.
Ismaili are already into zahir/baatin( taqwa) passed persons.
they have already attain taqwa so fasting is bypass as graduated from it.
Evert time you a fake hadiths.
Please mention 'may be 85% fake n mention numbers as shit no xyz.
Admin must be reminded that this forum in not "Eau de toilette"
to flush down all incoming shit from you.
Forget the fake hadith (SHIT) of dead narrator .I have given you a Live challenge on your face for today n tomorrow n not of stinking past data.
I along with may forum members may have been graduated to taqwa
with zero fasting because we have ALI with us and have old fake manuscripts.even toilet papers have more value than your fake data postings.
What benefit of fasting said by ALI is right and what is fake shit of narration is 100% False and dismissed at they are not the words of GOD/ALI but some con game narrators or observers.
It has minus ZERO value to me and to most of us.
You enjoy shit make your house warehouse of it and after some time
go for circling as Palit around the bhoot bangla.
sujjawal wrote:to zz noor!
it is your misconception that we ismailis consider Quran questionable.we consider interpretations of Quran that you make to be questionable.as Quran says
"AND IF THEY HAD REFERRED IT TO THE MESSENGER AND TO THOSE IN AUTHORITY AMONG THEM,THOSE OF THEM WHO CAN SEARCH OUT KNOWLEDGE OF IT WOULD HAVE KNOWN IT.AND WERE IT NOT FOR THE GRACE OF ALLAH UPON YOU AND HIS MERCY UPON YOU AND HIS MERCY,YOU WOULD HAVE FOLLOWED THE DEVIL SAVE A FEW"(CH.3 VERSE NO.40) Sorry I could not find it, I am not blind.
sujjawal wrote:to zz noor!
it is your misconception that we ismailis consider Quran questionable.we consider interpretations of Quran that you make to be questionable.as Quran says
"AND IF THEY HAD REFERRED IT TO THE MESSENGER AND TO THOSE IN AUTHORITY AMONG THEM,THOSE OF THEM WHO CAN SEARCH OUT KNOWLEDGE OF IT WOULD HAVE KNOWN IT.AND WERE IT NOT FOR THE GRACE OF ALLAH UPON YOU AND HIS MERCY UPON YOU AND HIS MERCY,YOU WOULD HAVE FOLLOWED THE DEVIL SAVE A FEW"(CH.3 VERSE NO.40) Sorry I could not find it, I am not blind.
There are many translations so it is nice to give name of translator also.
Beside posting whole Aya, I want to share with you 7 Tips for Understanding the Quran
1. Always purify your intentions
2. use a reliable translation if you dont understand arabic
3. Never study a verse in isolation from other verses and hadith on the topic
4. Prioritize the explanation of the Prophet and his companions
5. Check if there is a reason for revelation and understand its relevance
6. Always clarify Fiqh and Aqeedah verses with a scholar
7. Familiarize yourself with the sciences of the Quran (Uloom Al-Quran) for a deeper understanding
This is example of what Ismailis think of Quran and Hadith. Many like you are polite but for decency sake only.
Forget the fake hadith (SHIT) of dead narrator .I have given you a Live challenge on your face for today n tomorrow n not of stinking past data.
I along with may forum members may have been graduated to taqwa
with zero fasting because we have ALI with us and have old fake manuscripts.even toilet papers have more value than your fake data postings.
What benefit of fasting said by ALI is right and what is fake shit of narration is 100% False and dismissed at they are not the words of GOD/ALI but some con game narrators or observers.
It has minus ZERO value to me and to most of us.
You enjoy shit make your house warehouse of it and after some time
go for circling as Palit around the bhoot bangla.
This is example of what Ismailis think of Quran and Hadith. Many like you are polite but for decency sake only.
Forget the fake hadith (SHIT) of dead narrator .I have given you a Live challenge on your face for today n tomorrow n not of stinking past data.
I along with may forum members may have been graduated to taqwa
with zero fasting because we have ALI with us and have old fake manuscripts.even toilet papers have more value than your fake data postings.
What benefit of fasting said by ALI is right and what is fake shit of narration is 100% False and dismissed at they are not the words of GOD/ALI but some con game narrators or observers.
It has minus ZERO value to me and to most of us.
You enjoy shit make your house warehouse of it and after some time
go for circling as Palit around the bhoot bangla.
Nice is it not?
to zznoor!
we consider quran as final word of Allah revealed to mankind through His appostle.you people look back to the life oF Prophet and his sunnah for relegious practices and explanatons of quran but we consider imam to be guide appointed by Allah Himself to reveal the hidden meanings of quran and shariat that was preached by prophet and teach and to his murids according to their uderstandings with time.hence as we consider final authority after death of the prophet to be imam so we consider hadiths to be true from only those sources which are reccomended by our imams.and just as i said imams guid their murids acocording to changing times so we consider only those hadiths which are applicable today.
as far as commandments mentioned in quran are concerned,our imam doesnot change essence of any commandment of shariat as essence is eternal it is only outer dress that changes.
zznoor said: You must really understand what real meaning of "THOSE IN AUTHORITY AMONG YOU". It will help if you read Maudidi's comment on 4:59. You will find it on tafheem.net/tafheem.html
to zznoor
we donnot consider interpretations of sunni approach to be true.it may be true for yourself and you may follow them.we are nothing to do with what your scholars have said about ""WHO IS MEANT BY ULIL AMAR'';We consider to be true said by only our imams.and if you ask to know what what you say about this verse then i know it very well what kind of different interpretations your scholars have given .one has said that by ULIL AMAR it means salaar of war,while other will say it means the caliph of a muslim state.but these interpretations are not inellectually acceptable.as a common man who can get astrayed at any time due to his nafs e amara,cannot be placed with Allah and h`is Rasool. as it is clearly mentioned in this verse
'"O YE WHO BELEIVE OBEY ALLAH AND HIS MESSENGER AND THOSE IN AUTHORITY AMONG YOU""(CH ALNISA AND VERSE#59)
we consider imam to be guide appointed by Allah Himself to reveal the hidden meanings of quran
Brother
Please post few nuggets of hidden meaning of Quran from your Maula.
Just talking about hidden meaning, hidden meaning is not enough.
Just like Admin saying;
Imam made certain fast Haram but I will not tell you which one!!!!!!!!
Quran says in CH no.8;verse no 27 that,
''O you who believe,be not unfaithful to Allah and the Messenger,nor be unfaithful to your trusts,while you know''
as per above mentioned verse all those hidden things that our imam reveals to us in the form of taawil is a sacred trust.if we expose it those who are not our imams murids then it would be to be unfaithfull to Allah and to his messenger.
zznoor wrote:There are many translations so it is nice to give name of translator also.
to zznoor!
thats the thing; you people even dont have same translations of quran;not same tafsirs.each scholar can give his own interpretations of quran and sharyat and preach it to otfers thus giving rise to thier own sect.your so called most reliable hadith sources even dont tell same kind of namaaz.you even dont have same timings of aadan; you fight with each other on whether to do rafa udayn or not.you people fight with each other either to follow shaafi or hanfi.it would be better for you to go and first try to create unity among your own school of thought and then give us your so called tabligh fi sabilallah
we consider imam to be guide appointed by Allah Himself to reveal the hidden meanings of quran
Brother
Please post few nuggets of hidden meaning of Quran from your Maula.
Just talking about hidden meaning, hidden meaning is not enough.
Just like Admin saying;
Imam made certain fast Haram but I will not tell you which one!!!!!!!!
Quran says in CH no.8;verse no 27 that,
''O you who believe,be not unfaithful to Allah and the Messenger,nor be unfaithful to your trusts,while you know''
as per above mentioned verse all those hidden things that our imam reveals to us in the form of taawil is a sacred trust.if we expose it those who are not our imams murids then it would be to be unfaithfull to Allah and to his messenger.
This is classical cop out.
Islam is simple religion to understand. There is no authentic Batin meaning of Quran Ayas. All cults use this device. Sell secrete knowledge after promise of not telling anybody what you learned.
Since you are saying there is no Batin meaning, why don't you explain us what the word "Amanat" is referring to and why don't you try explaining the letters found in the beginning of a Surat such as "Alif, Lam, Mim"? If there is no Batin meaning, please give us the Zahir and Shariati meaning. Thanks!
Admin wrote:Since you are saying there is no Batin meaning, why don't you explain us what the word "Amanat" is referring to and why don't you try explaining the letters found in the beginning of a Surat such as "Alif, Lam, Mim"? If there is no Batin meaning, please give us the Zahir and Shariati meaning. Thanks!
They are known as muqatta'at. Nobody has given precise and authentic meaning. If you ask two people who claims to have this knowledge they will give you three answers.
If you have learned precise meaning of it from your Imam, only he can put end to centuries of debate.
And I am sure you also will say I am duty bound not to reveal it.
I say Allahu Aalam. Only Allah knows.
From Wikipedia
Tomes have been written over the centuries on the possible meanings and probable significance of these 'mystical letters' as they are sometimes called. Opinions have been numerous but a consensus elusive. There is no report in the Ahadith or Sirat of Muhammad's having used such expressions in his ordinary speech, or his having thrown light as to its usage in the Qur'an. And, more importantly, none of his Companions seemed to have asked him, regarding it. This apparent lack of inquisitiveness is cited as proof that the usage of such abbreviations were well known to the Arabs of the time and were in vogue long before the advent of Islam.
Word Amanat related to which Aya?
I am not Mulla, hafiz or scholar. I am ordinary person who believes in simple Islam and am happy fulfilling my basic duties in salat, swam and zakat. I have done my Umrah and hajj.
If there is Batini Islam I am willing to learn without joining a cult.
