The Dar es Salaam Mission Conference 1945 is a very well known document in the Ismaili community or at least in the Ismaili Intelligentsia. I would not object for a paragraph to be quoted here. I am not sure if I will allow the whole Farman to be quoted, I would prefer only the passage relevant be quoted and I think it has already been in this Forum.
Also this discussion is now scatered in several threads. Please I request all of you not to bring each and every thread to end up with this matter.
"Ali Sahi Allah" from Asal Dua, Nusayri
Paris Conference document is not a farman, it is minutes transcribed and signed by Rupani, not by the Imam.sheri wrote:Admin - How was this different from the Paris Conference. If we have a full document posted for the Paris Conference, why should we hesitate in doing the same for the Dar-e-islam mission conference.
The 2 pages of Dar Mission Conference that I have seen quote from farmans. That makes the difference between the 2 docs.
Yes, I would like to authenticate it. I know the firman, but need the source because I would like to see it with my own eyes.Admin wrote:"There is no one greater than Myself. If you think of God, then it is Myself. If you think of Pir, then too it is Me. If you think about Imam, then too it is Me. And your beloved Master is also Me. There is no one except Myself... "
(Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah Vadi Jamatkhana, March 16, 1902)
I don't think even you looking at the source will matter.sheri wrote:Yes, I would like to authenticate it. I know the firman, but need the source because I would like to see it with my own eyes.Admin wrote:"There is no one greater than Myself. If you think of God, then it is Myself. If you think of Pir, then too it is Me. If you think about Imam, then too it is Me. And your beloved Master is also Me. There is no one except Myself... "
(Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah Vadi Jamatkhana, March 16, 1902)
You asked for Farmans - we gave you Farmans - you asked for sources - we gave you sources....and right after you got sources - you started questioning the sources itself.
I have a feeling if you even see the Farman in print - you'll say - I haven't heard the Imam say it in person - so it's not true.
The Source - the Farman is in Kalam-e-Imam-e-Mubeen. I don't have the exact page number - but if you ask the person who is lending you their book and is fluent in Gujrati to look up the Vadi Farmans - I am sure they'll find it for you.
Shams
Ah once again - your fraud is revealed.sheri wrote:Shams you said the conference happened in 1956
Admin you said the conference happened in 1945.
Who is correct?
So because there was a mission conference in 1956 - there couldn't have been one in 1945?
Actually these are both different mission conferences...and the contents/minutes/farmans made in both are very key.
You asked for a reference/quote from the Imam stating the Ali=Allah - you disputed that Ali=Allah concept wasn't a part of the old du'a..trying to prove the rest of us wrong - and in one fell swoop - one statement of Imam Sultan Mohammed Shah - clarified both of those points huh?
Btw - if you read the post i quoted on the Imam forum - you will see that the person writing the post went from Imam being intercessor to Ali = Allah.
It is interesting - i've never heard of someone that believed in Ali=Allah to go backward - some conviction huh?
But on the other hand - I know a lot more people who didn't believe in Ali=Allah come to the realization of Ali=Allah and stay there.
You can't demand understanding - it is a blessing - this is not your right - this is grace.
This isn't something bestowed by intellect.
Intellect leads to Faith - Faith leads to Love and Submission - and Submission and Love sustain Faith.
Thomas Aquinas who took up after some notable Muslim theologians (Averroes, Ibn Tufayl, Maimondes (who was a jew))..said something very important - which I hope helps you understand better..
"love picks up where knowledge leaves off"
"Knowledge sets’ the course, but love — or faith — makes it go"
You have to take the "leap of faith". Where knowledge ends and love begins.
Shams
So you wanted only the date and when presented with the date and the extract, you need the source. Well one of the Source is "Khangi farmans" also called Button Wari Book. Originaly printed in Khojki and used up to early 1960's in many many jamatkhanas, including all jamtkhanas in Africa. The same is also in Kalame Imame Mubeen.sheri wrote:Yes, I would like to authenticate it. I know the firman, but need the source because I would like to see it with my own eyes.Admin wrote:
(Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah Vadi Jamatkhana, March 16, 1902)
The book was subsequently transcribed in Gujarati. if you are not an Ismaili or from an Ismaili family, you obviously would not have access to this info. I am not going to put any farmans here to satisfy your mood of creating unecessary controversies when it is very much clear that you are not here to learn.
Ya Ali Madad:
I request members just to ignore this pair of puppy n bitch who are by default and challenge of Farmans are NON ISMAILIS.
They are just trying to weaken n confuse the members by their posting SHIT n debating ability.
I have asked for fotos of their faces to know how screwed their soul is n deitinated toward the gutter.
Almost all the Farsi Qasidas are outright Marfarti level(many greater than Ginans), where they start with ALI n full of ALI status n praise
because they were blessed with conviction that they ignored, undermined
n even disregarded the word 'Allah' as non entity in their preaching .
Even for me the word is non entity as is composed with
weighty ALI+Lah (that is nothing n has no weight).
Somebody in gutter with brightness of 5 candles is waiting for these two barking animals.
DO NOT WASTE TIME ON THEM ON THESE SCREWED UP UN BLESSED SOULS
I request members just to ignore this pair of puppy n bitch who are by default and challenge of Farmans are NON ISMAILIS.
They are just trying to weaken n confuse the members by their posting SHIT n debating ability.
I have asked for fotos of their faces to know how screwed their soul is n deitinated toward the gutter.
Almost all the Farsi Qasidas are outright Marfarti level(many greater than Ginans), where they start with ALI n full of ALI status n praise
because they were blessed with conviction that they ignored, undermined
n even disregarded the word 'Allah' as non entity in their preaching .
Even for me the word is non entity as is composed with
weighty ALI+Lah (that is nothing n has no weight).
Somebody in gutter with brightness of 5 candles is waiting for these two barking animals.
DO NOT WASTE TIME ON THEM ON THESE SCREWED UP UN BLESSED SOULS
After giving so many references and date to Sheri urfe Tret he is still asking even more there is a idioms in Indo -Pak languages
JISKO NACHNA NAHI USKE LIYE AANGAN TEDHA!! so if you still keep giving references he will find some thing wrong in it,
Didn't I told you that even Ali come himself and tell him, you are wrong even this he will not believe that.
So don't wast your times on this ( Sheri and Tret is same) full of doubt person Tret urfe Sheri. period.
JISKO NACHNA NAHI USKE LIYE AANGAN TEDHA!! so if you still keep giving references he will find some thing wrong in it,
Didn't I told you that even Ali come himself and tell him, you are wrong even this he will not believe that.
So don't wast your times on this ( Sheri and Tret is same) full of doubt person Tret urfe Sheri. period.
Sheri urfe Trent,
Admin bro please do not stop me this time, because I am breaking my six years old policy! which hurts me but there is no other way and it is enough is enough from an arrogant person tret, who rules this website! Tret tell me how many farmans of H.Hasan Ali Shah, H. Ali Shah and Mowlana Siltan Mohammed Shah you wants? With proofs which shows you Ali is the Allah? OrAli sahi Allah?
I will go out of my way and I will break my own policy and put dozens of farmans of above stated imams with photo copies of these farmans, which are published by Ismailia Association of India used to call recretion club of India woth date and place!
Admin, please do not stop me this time for this arrogant person who hold two IDS! and he is big gaddar in this forum under the shadow of Ismaili sect.
So come forward and tell me oh Ismaili Gaddar! how many farmans you need to keep your damn mouth shut?
Just give me your damn email and I will send you the proof, put your damn email in my private message. after reading all farmans you need to stop barking and keep your Ugly mouth shut, is it ok with you? Then tell me how many farmans you need?
Admin please excuse my launguage this time for this person , I promise you I will put as many farman he wants with written proof, so please let me do that otherwise he will raise another nonsense question again and again.
Admin bro please do not stop me this time, because I am breaking my six years old policy! which hurts me but there is no other way and it is enough is enough from an arrogant person tret, who rules this website! Tret tell me how many farmans of H.Hasan Ali Shah, H. Ali Shah and Mowlana Siltan Mohammed Shah you wants? With proofs which shows you Ali is the Allah? OrAli sahi Allah?
I will go out of my way and I will break my own policy and put dozens of farmans of above stated imams with photo copies of these farmans, which are published by Ismailia Association of India used to call recretion club of India woth date and place!
Admin, please do not stop me this time for this arrogant person who hold two IDS! and he is big gaddar in this forum under the shadow of Ismaili sect.
So come forward and tell me oh Ismaili Gaddar! how many farmans you need to keep your damn mouth shut?
Just give me your damn email and I will send you the proof, put your damn email in my private message. after reading all farmans you need to stop barking and keep your Ugly mouth shut, is it ok with you? Then tell me how many farmans you need?
Admin please excuse my launguage this time for this person , I promise you I will put as many farman he wants with written proof, so please let me do that otherwise he will raise another nonsense question again and again.
Imam Hasan Ali Shah's farman
Farman # 1, જો ધણી પીરને સહી ખુદા છે એમ માણસો તો ઇન્શાઅલ્લાહ કયામતન દિવસનો તમારો જામીન હું પોતે થઈશ, અને દુનિયામાં પણ તમને જરાય દુઃખ થવા નહિ દઉ.
If you believe Shah & Pir as a true Allah, then I will be your witness on the day of Kayamat, (judgment) and I will not let you become unhappy even in this world too. Sanvat 1940: year 1858 Mumbai.
Farman # 2 : ફરમાવ્યુંકે, તમે એમ ન સમજશો કે મૌલા બીજો છે અને વળી ખુદા બીજો છે! ઈમામ હુસેન બીજો છે! ના એમ નથી એ બધા એકજ નૂર છે ને મૌલા મુર્તઝાઅલી તે સહી ખુદા છે. ફરિસ્તા પણ એ નૂર માંથી જ પેદા થયા છે.
Do not think that mowla is different and Allah is different!! imam Hussain is different! nope they all have same noor and Mowla Murtaza ali is the true Allah angles are also born from this noor.
Year and place: ibidem, as above
Farman # 1, જો ધણી પીરને સહી ખુદા છે એમ માણસો તો ઇન્શાઅલ્લાહ કયામતન દિવસનો તમારો જામીન હું પોતે થઈશ, અને દુનિયામાં પણ તમને જરાય દુઃખ થવા નહિ દઉ.
If you believe Shah & Pir as a true Allah, then I will be your witness on the day of Kayamat, (judgment) and I will not let you become unhappy even in this world too. Sanvat 1940: year 1858 Mumbai.
Farman # 2 : ફરમાવ્યુંકે, તમે એમ ન સમજશો કે મૌલા બીજો છે અને વળી ખુદા બીજો છે! ઈમામ હુસેન બીજો છે! ના એમ નથી એ બધા એકજ નૂર છે ને મૌલા મુર્તઝાઅલી તે સહી ખુદા છે. ફરિસ્તા પણ એ નૂર માંથી જ પેદા થયા છે.
Do not think that mowla is different and Allah is different!! imam Hussain is different! nope they all have same noor and Mowla Murtaza ali is the true Allah angles are also born from this noor.
Year and place: ibidem, as above
agakhani wrote:Imam Hasan Ali Shah's farman
If you believe Shah & Pir as a true Allah, then I will be your witness on the day of Kayamat, (judgment) and I will not let you become unhappy even in this world too. Sanvat 1940: year 1858 Mumbai.
above
I am little bit lost here.
can you pls interpretate the above firman ?
On the day of judgement, the Imam will be witness for us to whom ?
to Allah ? Who is Himself ?
Imam Hasan Ali Shah's farrman # 3
ઈમામ હસન અલી શાહે ફરમાવ્યું : એક દિવસ નબી રસૂલ પોતાનો અતિ પવિત્ર પરિવાર સાથે બિરાજમાન હતા ત્યારે જનાબે ફાતેમા -તું - ઝોહરા (સ.અ.) પૂછ્યું , યા અબ્બાજાન, મને ખુદા દેખાડો, ત્યારે હુઝુરે ફરમાવ્યું, ખુદાનો હાથ ઈમામ હુસેન (સ.અ.) ઉપર છે, એ વખતે મૌલા મુર્તઝાઅલી (અ.સ.) પોતાનો હાથ મુબારક હઝરત હુસેન ઉપર રાખ્યો ત્યારે માતા ફાતેમા (સ.અ.) બીલી ઉઠયા હૈ: મૌલા અલી પોતેજ સહી ખુદા - અલી સહી અલ્લાહ છે.
Imam Hasan Ali Shah told: One day prophet Mohd was sited with his holy family then bibi Fateha (s..a.) asked him: hai dad! please show me the Allah? then rasool told her that Allah's hand on Imam hussein. at this moments H. Ali put his own hand on the head of Imam hussein, then bibi Fatema told with joy "mowla Ali him self is the Allah - Allah sahi Allah. Mumbai Aasho sanwat date 25 sanwat 1928 , Date 25th year 1872.
Imam Hasan Ali Shah farman # 4
ઈમામ હસન અલી શાહે ફરમાવ્યું: તમે જમાત ખાનામાં આવી અલી- અલ્લાહ બોલો છો ત્યારે અપરમ્પાર સવાબ થાય છે, પણ જયારે તમે અલી સહી અલ્લાહ બોલો છો ત્યારે તેનો સવાબ એટલો થાય છે કે જે અર્શે- અઝીમ સુધી પહોંચે છે.
ફરમાવ્યું હે જમાતો , એજ અલી સહી અલ્લાહ અમે પોતે હઝાર બેધા છીએ, જે કોઈ એમાં શક આણશે તે જહન્નમમાં પડશે.
Imam Hasan Ali Shah told: When you say ALI ALLAH IN JAMAT KHANAS then you receive unlimited sawab for that but when you says (ALI SAHI ALLAH) then its sawab recehes til the Arsh- e- Azim.
He, Jamats, The same Ali Sahi Allah I am here in presence of you, any one who doubt about that he/she will go in hell!!
Jeth month date 1st, sanwat 1916: year 1860, place not found.
ફરમાવ્યું હે જમાતો , એજ અલી સહી અલ્લાહ અમે પોતે હઝાર બેધા છીએ, જે કોઈ એમાં શક આણશે તે જહન્નમમાં પડશે.
Imam Ali Shah told ( when he was in pir's joma) Farman # 5
અલી છે તે સહી અલ્લાહ છે, તેમાં જે શક આણે તે જહન્નમમાં જશે. ફરમાવ્યું ( આગા અલી શાહે) કે અમે પોતે નબી રસૂલ છીએ, અને આગા હસન અલી શાહ બાદશાહ ચી તેને સહી મુર્તઝાઅલી પાક પરવરદિગાર કરીને જાણજો તો તમારો છુટકારો થશે.
Ali is the true Allah and if any one bring doubt on this then he will goes in hell. told Hasan Ali shah is the true Murtaza Ali - a true Allah, if you believe this then you will receive salvation.
Magshar sud Beej, sanwat 1930 year 1874 place Mumbai.
Farman # 6" Imam Ali Shah told:
ઈમામ આગા અલી શાહે ફરમાવ્યું કે જે માણસ મૌલા મુર્તઝાઅલી ને ન ઓળખે અને મૂલ્લાહ પાછળ નમાઝ પડે તેને જરા જેટલો પણ ફાયદો થતો નથી ........... તમે માનો કે ન માનો તે તમારી મરજી. મૌલા મુર્તઝા અલી સહી ખુદવંદ આલમીન છે, તેમાં જે શક આણે તે કાફર છે.
Imam Aga Ali Shah told, That person who does not know Mowla Murtaza ali and prays after mullahs, he do not receives any benefits. we shows you a true path wheteher to beleive it or not its toally up to you. mOWLA MURTAZA ALI IS THE KHUDAWIND AALMIN, if any one doubt about this then he is kafar.
I think these is enough for now but if Tret wants more then I have plenty farmans on hand of Imam Ali Shah and Sultan Mohammad shah to provide.
ઈમામ હસન અલી શાહે ફરમાવ્યું : એક દિવસ નબી રસૂલ પોતાનો અતિ પવિત્ર પરિવાર સાથે બિરાજમાન હતા ત્યારે જનાબે ફાતેમા -તું - ઝોહરા (સ.અ.) પૂછ્યું , યા અબ્બાજાન, મને ખુદા દેખાડો, ત્યારે હુઝુરે ફરમાવ્યું, ખુદાનો હાથ ઈમામ હુસેન (સ.અ.) ઉપર છે, એ વખતે મૌલા મુર્તઝાઅલી (અ.સ.) પોતાનો હાથ મુબારક હઝરત હુસેન ઉપર રાખ્યો ત્યારે માતા ફાતેમા (સ.અ.) બીલી ઉઠયા હૈ: મૌલા અલી પોતેજ સહી ખુદા - અલી સહી અલ્લાહ છે.
Imam Hasan Ali Shah told: One day prophet Mohd was sited with his holy family then bibi Fateha (s..a.) asked him: hai dad! please show me the Allah? then rasool told her that Allah's hand on Imam hussein. at this moments H. Ali put his own hand on the head of Imam hussein, then bibi Fatema told with joy "mowla Ali him self is the Allah - Allah sahi Allah. Mumbai Aasho sanwat date 25 sanwat 1928 , Date 25th year 1872.
Imam Hasan Ali Shah farman # 4
ઈમામ હસન અલી શાહે ફરમાવ્યું: તમે જમાત ખાનામાં આવી અલી- અલ્લાહ બોલો છો ત્યારે અપરમ્પાર સવાબ થાય છે, પણ જયારે તમે અલી સહી અલ્લાહ બોલો છો ત્યારે તેનો સવાબ એટલો થાય છે કે જે અર્શે- અઝીમ સુધી પહોંચે છે.
ફરમાવ્યું હે જમાતો , એજ અલી સહી અલ્લાહ અમે પોતે હઝાર બેધા છીએ, જે કોઈ એમાં શક આણશે તે જહન્નમમાં પડશે.
Imam Hasan Ali Shah told: When you say ALI ALLAH IN JAMAT KHANAS then you receive unlimited sawab for that but when you says (ALI SAHI ALLAH) then its sawab recehes til the Arsh- e- Azim.
He, Jamats, The same Ali Sahi Allah I am here in presence of you, any one who doubt about that he/she will go in hell!!
Jeth month date 1st, sanwat 1916: year 1860, place not found.
ફરમાવ્યું હે જમાતો , એજ અલી સહી અલ્લાહ અમે પોતે હઝાર બેધા છીએ, જે કોઈ એમાં શક આણશે તે જહન્નમમાં પડશે.
Imam Ali Shah told ( when he was in pir's joma) Farman # 5
અલી છે તે સહી અલ્લાહ છે, તેમાં જે શક આણે તે જહન્નમમાં જશે. ફરમાવ્યું ( આગા અલી શાહે) કે અમે પોતે નબી રસૂલ છીએ, અને આગા હસન અલી શાહ બાદશાહ ચી તેને સહી મુર્તઝાઅલી પાક પરવરદિગાર કરીને જાણજો તો તમારો છુટકારો થશે.
Ali is the true Allah and if any one bring doubt on this then he will goes in hell. told Hasan Ali shah is the true Murtaza Ali - a true Allah, if you believe this then you will receive salvation.
Magshar sud Beej, sanwat 1930 year 1874 place Mumbai.
Farman # 6" Imam Ali Shah told:
ઈમામ આગા અલી શાહે ફરમાવ્યું કે જે માણસ મૌલા મુર્તઝાઅલી ને ન ઓળખે અને મૂલ્લાહ પાછળ નમાઝ પડે તેને જરા જેટલો પણ ફાયદો થતો નથી ........... તમે માનો કે ન માનો તે તમારી મરજી. મૌલા મુર્તઝા અલી સહી ખુદવંદ આલમીન છે, તેમાં જે શક આણે તે કાફર છે.
Imam Aga Ali Shah told, That person who does not know Mowla Murtaza ali and prays after mullahs, he do not receives any benefits. we shows you a true path wheteher to beleive it or not its toally up to you. mOWLA MURTAZA ALI IS THE KHUDAWIND AALMIN, if any one doubt about this then he is kafar.
I think these is enough for now but if Tret wants more then I have plenty farmans on hand of Imam Ali Shah and Sultan Mohammad shah to provide.
This coming from a *mahrifati* or *attorney of Ali*, seems unbelievable.nuseri wrote:...They are just trying to weaken n confuse the members ...
If one's belief and faith/Iman is weaken or shaken by just words of someone, then either my words or powerful, or your faith is already weak, and not really faith, but doubt.
This is the difference between you (members a like) and me; My faith/Iman is not shaken a bit, no matter what you say/claim; however, yours (members a like) are shaken/weaken/confused, simply by words, and yet you guys are claiming that you have found Allah? It's amazing...
A sage was showing a layman the moon by pointing with his finger; the layman was looking at his finger as opposed to the moon.
Now my challenge is extended to all participants who claim Ali is Allah.
please describe what do you perceive as Allah? It could be the Allah that you come to understand is not the same as Muslims do? Then that would explain, for sure.
Everyone of you goes to silence, when asked this question. Even the *PHD*.
Leave your thinking and believing with you, which are nothing else but Bulshit, we do not need that trash, whatever I wrote above is exactly as same as the printed farman books which was published by Ismailiaa Association of India.
I only give you 6 farmans yet but I have still many, before I put farmans I told you tret urfe Sheri that you have to keep your ugly mouth shut and you deserves this kind launuage that is for sure, who do not believes above farmans! til today you were asking for written proofs which I gives you, this proofs are not mine or admin or Mr.Natthu but its cames BBBfrom a holy mouth of our imams! Shame to you, you are a munafiq who consider as an Ismaili but does not believe in farmans! Shame to you you will definitely goes in hell, as per the above farmans.period. you do not have any rights to claim your self as an ismaili so best way get lost from here! and stop puting your nonsense thought in this website.
I only give you 6 farmans yet but I have still many, before I put farmans I told you tret urfe Sheri that you have to keep your ugly mouth shut and you deserves this kind launuage that is for sure, who do not believes above farmans! til today you were asking for written proofs which I gives you, this proofs are not mine or admin or Mr.Natthu but its cames BBBfrom a holy mouth of our imams! Shame to you, you are a munafiq who consider as an Ismaili but does not believe in farmans! Shame to you you will definitely goes in hell, as per the above farmans.period. you do not have any rights to claim your self as an ismaili so best way get lost from here! and stop puting your nonsense thought in this website.
One more thing:tret wrote:This coming from a *mahrifati* or *attorney of Ali*, seems unbelievable.nuseri wrote:...They are just trying to weaken n confuse the members ...
If one's belief and faith/Iman is weaken or shaken by just words of someone, then either my words or powerful, or your faith is already weak, and not really faith, but doubt.
This is the difference between you (members a like) and me; My faith/Iman is not shaken a bit, no matter what you say/claim; however, yours (members a like) are shaken/weaken/confused, simply by words, and yet you guys are claiming that you have found Allah? It's amazing...
A sage was showing a layman the moon by pointing with his finger; the layman was looking at his finger as opposed to the moon.
Now my challenge is extended to all participants who claim Ali is Allah.
please describe what do you perceive as Allah? It could be the Allah that you come to understand is not the same as Muslims do? Then that would explain, for sure.
Everyone of you goes to silence, when asked this question. Even the *PHD*.
If you believe Allah=Ali=vishu(or krishna/radha/shankar), then yeah, it makes sense for a hindu-ismaili
apparently, you consider yourself more of a hindu-ismaili than a muslim ismaili. Because, according to a muslim-ismaili, God/Allah is to be understood according to surah Ikhlas.
Farameen of Imams to be understood in proper context, not to be translated in terms of hindu beliefs. (sign of Allah is not the same as Allah). Go back and see who did the translation of the Farameen-e-Mubarak.
Again sign of Allah is NOT the same as Ali is Allah.
So why are you so insecure to tell us who's Allah according to you? Are you afraid that what was told to you guys is not what you believe?
http://ismailignosis.com/2012/08/15/the ... ns-of-ali/
Read this, and tell me it's not true also.
agakhani, I don't think you will get this, since I believe it's above your level of intellect. But I put this link for others.
Read this, and tell me it's not true also.
agakhani, I don't think you will get this, since I believe it's above your level of intellect. But I put this link for others.
If I see this insult posted on this Forum on more, I will delete not only the post but I will ban the username, the password, the email address, the IP number and all future attempts by that person to register under whatever name on this site. Last warning.tret wrote:hindu-ismaili
People who think there are hindu-ismailis and Jahiliya-Ismailis and Christian-Ismailis and Jews-Ismailis etc... have no place in this Forum. Please take your ideas somewhere where you feel more welcome.
Sure you do; since you are the judge, jury and the executioner.Admin wrote:If I see this insult posted on this Forum on more, I will delete not only the post but I will ban the username, the password, the email address, the IP number and all future attempts by that person to register under whatever name on this site. Last warning.tret wrote:hindu-ismaili
People who think there are hindu-ismailis and Jahiliya-Ismailis and Christian-Ismailis and Jews-Ismailis etc... have no place in this Forum. Please take your ideas somewhere where you feel more welcome.
What do you say about the other participants comments?
Maybe true, maybe not. But, at least i gave my perspective. Everyone who understands something, gives his perspective; the ones who don't simply avoids.Admin wrote:The same could be said of yourself so please spare us this kind of comments which do not in any way increase knowledge on this site.tret wrote:I don't think you will get this, since I believe it's above your level of intellect. But I put this link for others.
You can call the moderator of a Forum by any name you like but you can not make fun or insult other users. This rule apply to all and whenever necessary I have taken action and will continue to do so to keep sanity in the discussion.tret wrote:
Sure you do; since you are the judge, jury and the executioner.
What do you say about the other participants comments?
So now we believe that "PIR" is also Allah. If PIR was Allah as well, then before IMAM SMS, the role of IMAM (Shah) & PIR consisted of two different individuals. So over the past 1400 years we have had TWO Allahs. One Allah was Pir and One Allah was IMAM. Duality of Allah has no place in Islam. Sorry agakhani, in Islam there is only One Allah who is beyond human intellect. When you state Allah=IMAM & Allah=Pir, you are providing a description of how Allah looks like (human being).agakhani wrote:Imam Hasan Ali Shah's farman
If you believe Shah & Pir as a true Allah, then I will be your witness on the day of Kayamat, (judgment) and I will not let you become unhappy even in this world too. Sanvat 1940: year 1858 Mumbai.
I seriously doubt the authenticity of these firmans.
I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that IMAM has the Noor of Allah. We all are from Allah and our return is to Allah.agakhani wrote:Imam Hasan Ali Shah's farman
Farman#2:
Do not think that mowla is different and Allah is different!! imam Hussain is different! nope they all have same noor and Mowla Murtaza ali is the true Allah angles are also born from this noor.
Year and place: ibidem, as above
agakhani wrote:Imam Hasan Ali Shah's farrman # 3
Imam Hasan Ali Shah told: One day prophet Mohd was sited with his holy family then bibi Fateha (s..a.) asked him: hai dad! please show me the Allah? then rasool told her that Allah's hand on Imam hussein. at this moments H. Ali put his own hand on the head of Imam hussein, then bibi Fatema told with joy "mowla Ali him self is the Allah - Allah sahi Allah. Mumbai Aasho sanwat date 25 sanwat 1928 , Date 25th year 1872.
Imam Hasan Ali Shah farman # 4
Imam Hasan Ali Shah told: When you say ALI ALLAH IN JAMAT KHANAS then you receive unlimited sawab for that but when you says (ALI SAHI ALLAH) then its sawab recehes til the Arsh- e- Azim.
He, Jamats, The same Ali Sahi Allah I am here in presence of you, any one who doubt about that he/she will go in hell!!
Jeth month date 1st, sanwat 1916: year 1860, place not found.
Imam Ali Shah told ( when he was in pir's joma) Farman # 5
Ali is the true Allah and if any one bring doubt on this then he will goes in hell. told Hasan Ali shah is the true Murtaza Ali - a true Allah, if you believe this then you will receive salvation.
Magshar sud Beej, sanwat 1930 year 1874 place Mumbai.
Farman # 6" Imam Ali Shah told:
Imam Aga Ali Shah told, That person who does not know Mowla Murtaza ali and prays after mullahs, he do not receives any benefits. we shows you a true path wheteher to beleive it or not its toally up to you. mOWLA MURTAZA ALI IS THE KHUDAWIND AALMIN, if any one doubt about this then he is kafar.
I think these is enough for now but if Tret wants more then I have plenty farmans on hand of Imam Ali Shah and Sultan Mohammad shah to provide.
Please note the starting of all these firmans: "Imam Aga Ali Shah told." This implies that the IMAM is not the author of these firmans. These are written by some 3rd person, who is QUOTING IMAM SMS. Otherwise the use of "Imam Aga Ali Shah told" would not be necessitated.
Admin wrote:You can call the moderator of a Forum by any name you like but you can not make fun or insult other users. This rule apply to all and whenever necessary I have taken action and will continue to do so to keep sanity in the discussion.tret wrote:
Sure you do; since you are the judge, jury and the executioner.
What do you say about the other participants comments?
Right, but it seems a bit subjective and biased, your moderation. I just put one of this guy's comment here, and I highlighted just few keywords that this participant enjoys using them. Not to mention that this participants dis-respects the Prophet, the Qur'an, the great Hujjats. Other comments of his, which shows pure prejudice and bigotry, and discrimination which is completely against the pluralism and diversity which our beloved MHI preaches.
agakhani wrote: Leave your thinking and believing with you, which are nothing else but Bulshit, we do not need that trash, whatever I wrote above is exactly as same as the printed farman books which was published by Ismailiaa Association of India.
I only give you 6 farmans yet but I have still many, before I put farmans I told you tret urfe Sheri that you have to keep your ugly mouth shut and you deserves this kind launuage that is for sure, who do not believes above farmans! til today you were asking for written proofs which I gives you, this proofs are not mine or admin or Mr.Natthu but its cames BBBfrom a holy mouth of our imams! Shame to you, you are a munafiq who consider as an Ismaili but does not believe in farmans! Shame to you you will definitely goes in hell, as per the above farmans.period. you do not have any rights to claim your self as an ismaili so best way get lost from here! and stop puting your nonsense thought in this website.