After death

Discussion on doctrinal issues
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ShamsB
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Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 5:20 pm

Post by ShamsB »

tret wrote:Can you please clarify the following, specifically the bold?
nuseri wrote: 1. faith/conviction/inspiration is upwardly driven.


Also you alluded the following.
nuseri wrote: THE RESOLUTIONS MADE BY LEADER IS NOT THE BINDING FAITH
FOR ISMAILI IT IS HIS FARMANS,DUA N TASBIH WHICH LISTEN RECITE
EVERYDAY ALL OUR LIVES.
Can you please make reference to one of the following that implies ALI is ALLAH (OR IMAM is ALLAH)?

- A Farmaan
- Dua
- Tasbih


Note, I intentinally left our ginan and qasida, because you also didn't mention them.
Read the Du'a.

Shams
tret
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Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:09 pm

Post by tret »

ShamsB wrote:
tret wrote:Can you please clarify the following, specifically the bold?
nuseri wrote: 1. faith/conviction/inspiration is upwardly driven.


Also you alluded the following.
nuseri wrote: THE RESOLUTIONS MADE BY LEADER IS NOT THE BINDING FAITH
FOR ISMAILI IT IS HIS FARMANS,DUA N TASBIH WHICH LISTEN RECITE
EVERYDAY ALL OUR LIVES.
Can you please make reference to one of the following that implies ALI is ALLAH (OR IMAM is ALLAH)?

- A Farmaan
- Dua
- Tasbih


Note, I intentinally left our ginan and qasida, because you also didn't mention them.
Read the Du'a.

Shams
Please make a reference, which part of the Du'a?
nuseri
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Post by nuseri »

Ya Ali Madad.
is the word 'Mazhar' mentioned in the constitution? .
where is it's placement.
of somebody trying to club some resolution n constitution together
to fool people around.
I do not have fine print of the CNSTN.I may be in correct.
It is very very interesting word defining as TARIQAT . physical eyes sight level.
Inspiration has move upward or deeper if called as conviction.
Mazhar is nothing bur a reflection of mirror Image of the original of the REAL.
for example purpose we can use reflective index material as still water or mirror.
now what is the relation
if we see sun/moon in the mirror.
what we see is image of real sun/moon existing form figure shape etc.
any person blessed with inspiration or Ilm NEED TO question
if Image is the reflection of the real situated at a place or an angle
where the image is seen.? than where is real object/person??
A small effort is needed of that person either to turn it eyes ( sorry blind eyed). to angle where he feels n confident to see the real.
It is no rocket science but rational sense level of high school student.
In the case of sun or moon one has look upward,In case of a physical person one has look beside itself right or left to confirm the image seen
of the real with the real HIMSELF.
Imaan is diluting that non existing reflective index( still water/mirror).
and come to know n see the real by just moving the eyes.
IF THERE IS NO REAL THAN THERE IS NO IMAGE.
IS REAL IS FORMLESS N UNSEEN THEN IMAGE SHOULD BE BLANK
(POSSIBLE TO A BLIND TO SAY THAT).
If the word 'Mazhar' is taken with our haqiqati concept n sufi tariqa
the next level is simple.
Only enemies and rotten stinking Ismailis will try to distort the meaning with fancy words n idioms suiting their cursed inspiration level.
sheri
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Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:41 am

Post by sheri »

Nobody is trying to trick you. I am just laying out the facts.

The concepts of Nabuwah and Imamah:

These concepts to be explained and understood in the general perspective of God’s communication to man. The Imam to be explained as the ‘mazhar’ of God, and the relationship between God and the Imam to be related to varying levels of inspiration and communication from God to man.

Source: Paris Conference 1975 (MHI chaired this conference).
tret
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Post by tret »

nuseri wrote:Ya Ali Madad.
is the word 'Mazhar' mentioned in the constitution? .
where is it's placement.
of somebody trying to club some resolution n constitution together
to fool people around.
I do not have fine print of the CNSTN.I may be in correct.
It is very very interesting word defining as TARIQAT . physical eyes sight level.
Inspiration has move upward or deeper if called as conviction.
Mazhar is nothing bur a reflection of mirror Image of the original of the REAL.
for example purpose we can use reflective index material as still water or mirror.
now what is the relation
if we see sun/moon in the mirror.
what we see is image of real sun/moon existing form figure shape etc.
any person blessed with inspiration or Ilm NEED TO question
if Image is the reflection of the real situated at a place or an angle
where the image is seen.? than where is real object/person??
A small effort is needed of that person either to turn it eyes ( sorry blind eyed). to angle where he feels n confident to see the real.
It is no rocket science but rational sense level of high school student.
In the case of sun or moon one has look upward,In case of a physical person one has look beside itself right or left to confirm the image seen
of the real with the real HIMSELF.
Imaan is diluting that non existing reflective index( still water/mirror).
and come to know n see the real by just moving the eyes.
IF THERE IS NO REAL THAN THERE IS NO IMAGE.
IS REAL IS FORMLESS N UNSEEN THEN IMAGE SHOULD BE BLANK
(POSSIBLE TO A BLIND TO SAY THAT).
If the word 'Mazhar' is taken with our haqiqati concept n sufi tariqa
the next level is simple.
Only enemies and rotten stinking Ismailis will try to distort the meaning with fancy words n idioms suiting their cursed inspiration level.
To nuseri: First, some correction and clarification.

Mazhar is not the same as Reflection.

Mazhar = Locus of Manifestation (Place of Manifestation)
Reflection = reflecting something, as we know. We can say, that people reflect their values and believes in their speeches and deeds.


Second, The concepts about The God and The Imam is not something that has been introduced in the conference of 1975 at Paris. This has been always the belief of Ismailies. FYI, read the work of Ismailie thinkers and philosophers, which is available to the Jama'at from the era of Fatimid. I can name a few -- I know you won't read it, because you don't believe in them -- such as Sajistani, Tusi, Kirmani, Nasir-e-Khusraw, Attar (Attar was not an ismailie, but beautifully explains these concept in his "Mantiq-ul-Tyre" [The conference of Birds]).

God must be understood based on the Surah Ikhlas of the Qur'an! Of all the Surah's of the Qur'an, the very most important Surah, is the Surah Ikhlas, and that's how MHI approved the concept of God has to be tought and understood!

If you want to discuss about the Mazhar and Reflection, then please be mindful and listen to the other side of the story. I did try and explain it once, here I will try again.

Mazhar is the place of Manifestation. The Imam is Mazhar of Allah, of the place where Allah Manifest, Where the divine attibutres are reflected. All these divine attributes do not belong to The Essence of Allah. They rather belong to The Personal Aspect of Allah, which is the Nur of Imamat

One think I would like to reiterate is that by no means, the status of the Imam is degraded if we say the Imam is Mazhar of God. NO.

And please nuseri, can you reply to the question I posed in my previous post?
tret
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Post by tret »

To nuseri and everyone else!
nuseri wrote: If God created everything,Whys this crap word of Aql/Nafs e Kul was coined
I really wasn't expecting this from a spiritual brother, but alas! Here's an excerpt of MHI, for your reference. I pasted that of Farmaan which is relevant to what we discuss, Aql-e Kul. See first hand, what MHI has to say about it. It's not an invented concept by me or central asian Jama'at or at the conference in Paris in 1975. Please I really want us as a united Jama'at to know about our history and tariqa.

This link has greate collection of the excerpts of MHI's Farameen emphasizing and underlying the importance of knowledge.




http://gonashgo.blogspot.ca/2008/08/391 ... earch.html

"The Divine Intellect, Aql-i Kull, both transcends and informs the human intellect. It is this Intellect which enables man to strive towards two aims dictated by the faith: that he should reflect upon the environment Allah has given him and that he should know himself. It is the Light of the Intellect which distinguishes the complete human being from the human animal, and developing that intellect requires free inquiry. The man of faith, who fails to pursue intellectual search is likely to have only a limited comprehension of Allah's creation. Indeed, it is man's intellect that enables him to expand his vision of that creation"(Aga Khan IV, AKU Convocation Speech, Karachi, Pakistan, November 11, 1985)
nuseri
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Post by nuseri »

To Tret:
I must congratulate on this search.
I first used the word for MHI/ALI. see my postings.

It was you who backed out of the debate.

You this word does NOT mean for Allah or Imam on the question
posed to you.
you replied in Capital words NO.
then to know the source of the word
why this crap 'word' as you hide the source of Data to make it look as your own.
it is very dangerous if one is playing with true Marfati/Noorani insight words and distort and mend in shallow n low Tariqati angle.
now with word said by his 'status' as Aga Khan in a speech.
at your varied level.
to whom he refereed to Aql E Kul as?

I have mentioned it as MHI at the varing level of mine.

Has MHI or earlier Imam defines themselves as 'Mazhar of Allah'
out of own lips.
I will only accept that Defination

then if any by recognized PIR or Dai. whose orignal words in print to see with my own eyes n translation of it by known person of repute.
I may acknowledge with alignment of my definition.
till then my definition n belief STAYS PUT and not of an unbeliever.
please ask ant Haqiqati members what is their view n definition
of the word 'Mazhar.'
tret
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Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:09 pm

Post by tret »

nuseri wrote:To Tret:
I must congratulate on this search.
I first used the word for MHI/ALI. see my postings.

It was you who backed out of the debate.

You this word does NOT mean for Allah or Imam on the question
posed to you.
you replied in Capital words NO.
then to know the source of the word
why this crap 'word' as you hide the source of Data to make it look as your own.
it is very dangerous if one is playing with true Marfati/Noorani insight words and distort and mend in shallow n low Tariqati angle.
now with word said by his 'status' as Aga Khan in a speech.
at your varied level.
to whom he refereed to Aql E Kul as?

I have mentioned it as MHI at the varing level of mine.

Has MHI or earlier Imam defines themselves as 'Mazhar of Allah'
out of own lips.
I will only accept that Defination

then if any by recognized PIR or Dai. whose orignal words in print to see with my own eyes n translation of it by known person of repute.
I may acknowledge with alignment of my definition.
till then my definition n belief STAYS PUT and not of an unbeliever.
please ask ant Haqiqati members what is their view n definition
of the word 'Mazhar.'


This concept has been described in the works of Hujjats of the era of Fatimid.

Historically, our Tariqa has ranks of Din, where Imam appoints His Hujjats (who are representatives of the Imam), who have the spiritual knowledge of the truth!

We can find these concepts in the work of our Hujjats[Pir] from those cycle [Da'wr]. One thing to underline is that these concepts of faith and belief don't change with time. So, we can't say that these concepts were believed during Fatimid, and now since humanity evolved, they are no longer valid.

However, today the status of Hujjat[Pir] abolished, or rather the Imam has the station of Hujjat/Pir. But, during the previous cycles, where the Hujjats/Pirs were functioning, they had the same authority in their regions as the Imam. Because they were the representatives of the Imam, appointed by the Imam. And these concepts are found in their work.

Like I said, I didn't make these concept [Aql-e-Kul], Jama'at of certain regions didn't make it. Or the leadership didn't make it either.



When you learn something, then you can express it in your own words how you want! I mean everyone learns from somewhere! For example, had I not gone to school, would I be able to understand the chemistry formula, or a physic formula? So any student who writes a formula, doesn't mean that he writes it from his own mind. It's something that he learned it from somewhere. It's okay to use the concept that we learn from elsewhere. It doesn't have to come all the time from our mind.



According to my understanding, the Imam is referring to Nur of Imamat as Aql-e-Kul (I could be wrong, or right, but that's my understanding. If someone can correct me, I would really consider myself as his slave)
agakhani
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Post by agakhani »

No doctrinal discussion here and please do not fall into the trap opned by Sheri.
I totally agree with your above comments Sheri/Tret's comments are nothing else but plain traps, which has been discussed many times in past and now he & she think s-he is bringing in this forum now! it may be new for some but not for me, not for you and Shiraz, Munir and bro. shams.
sheri
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Post by sheri »

Agakhani:

Your views are respected and you are more than welcome to believe whatsoever you like to believe. However, your beliefs cannot be passed on as Ismaili beliefs.. Only upon MHI's approval those beliefs will be approved and codified.

Until then, the constitution is the only official document that clearly and precisely states Ismaili beliefs and I have quoted these beliefs many times in my posts.

Your personally attacking me implies your lack of references to support your claims.
tret
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Post by tret »

sheri wrote:Agakhani:

Your views are respected and you are more than welcome to believe whatsoever you like to believe. However, your beliefs cannot be passed on as Ismaili beliefs.. Only upon MHI's approval those beliefs will be approved and codified.

Until then, the constitution is the only official document that clearly and precisely states Ismaili beliefs and I have quoted these beliefs many times in my posts.

Your personally attacking me implies your lack of references to support your claims.
Brother sheri. I have ignored this participant for there's no point in debating with him.

I believe one should debate with someone who's worth debating with. Apparently he's not.
agakhani
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Post by agakhani »

I believe one should debate with someone who's worth debating with. Apparently he's not.
Truth is always bitter for every one and specially for you, tell me who else in this forum points out your white lies on almost every thing? starting for ginans to farmans, you are the same person who try to over ride the farmans of SMS and force us to believe your weird and unbelievable interpretation!!, when Mowla himself accept that and believes that while you are not !!!. I have collected many proofs of your lies and wrong interpretations would you like to know it?
And Off course I do not want to debate with you, who lies and give his wrong interpretation after every other sentences !!
and who judges some one else Imans!! Don't you forget that !not long ago you awarded Hindu titels to me and brother Shiraz and now a days you are after Nuseri because we are truth teller not a lier like you. period.
sheri
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Post by sheri »

The only truth about Ismaili beliefs are in the constitution and the MHI firmans. Your beliefs are only your beliefs that you may share with nuseri and others on the forum. Just because 5-10 ismailis share these beliefs don't make them Ismaili beliefs. The constitution is approved by MHI for all jamats globally. That is and will remain the fundamental belief until it is overridden by another constitution by MHI.
agakhani wrote:
I believe one should debate with someone who's worth debating with. Apparently he's not.
Truth is always bitter for every one and specially for you, tell me who else in this forum points out your white lies on almost every thing? starting for ginans to farmans, you are the same person who try to over ride the farmans of SMS and force us to believe your weird and unbelievable interpretation!!, when Mowla himself accept that and believes that while you are not !!!. I have collected many proofs of your lies and wrong interpretations would you like to know it?
And Off course I do not want to debate with you, who lies and give his wrong interpretation after every other sentences !!
and who judges some one else Imans!! Don't you forget that !not long ago you awarded Hindu titels to me and brother Shiraz and now a days you are after Nuseri because we are truth teller not a lier like you. period.
Admin
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Post by Admin »

You also lack understanding of what is the Constitution. It clearly states that Farmans overules the Constitution. Please read the Ismaili Law first before making grand declarations.

There are enought ismaili Law document in the Forum, in fact there is a whole section. As I said, you need to first read something on ismailism before starting to post.

Also note that no one should feel obliged to reply to each post on each issue discussed here.

The Law section is on:

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... forum&f=30

This thread here is for discussing what ever happens after death.
sheri
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Post by sheri »

Admin: Thanks for pointing that line out. You paraphrased that line to fit your claims, however analyzing the whole article would set the record straight.

"2.6 This Constitution shall be read with any Farman made after the date hereof, and in the event of conflict, the said Farman shall prevail over this Constitution, and a later Farman shall prevail over an earlier."

Please provide references to any farmans that were released after 1998 that refer to the concepts of Ali=Allah, Quran's authenticity, reincarnation, Vishnu, Pirs, Prophet Qiam, Daet Kalingo and various other issues that we are talking about that are in contradiction with the constitution.

In 1998, the constitution was formalized globally, and this has become the tenant of the ismaili faith. If there is a farman which conflicts with the constitution then the farman will be superseded. So please provide reference of farmans that reference any of the above mentioned topics.

I am certain that after 1998 there are no such farmans. So, I can accept that these were concepts that you may have used in the past due to the diversity of the environments of our jamat. With MHI, alot of these concepts have been discarded from our present beliefs. We are becoming a global jamat, and as that transition happens we will be projecting a unified message and that message will be our constitution because that is want MHI wants us to project going forward. We are part of the Muslim community with Islam as our religion. This is the ismaili tenants going forward. The past is the past and it will just become history, which we can relate to but the path going forward has already been paved by the constitution that MHI has instituted. Either you accept these concepts going forward or you don't, the choice is yours.
Admin
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Post by Admin »

The concept of a Constitution is not to list each element of doctrines one by one. That is only common sense. On does not need to be a Constitutional Expert to understand this.
sheri
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Post by sheri »

Admin wrote:The concept of a Constitution is not to list each element of doctrines one by one. That is only common sense. On does not need to be a Constitutional Expert to understand this.
I am a new generation of Ismaili from the Indo-Pak region. I have been told by my jamati elders to obey the constitution, and the firmans of MHI. I have had these discussion with ismaili scholars and these days many agree that the constitution sets the basic beliefs for the ismaili tariqah.

I can understand that I am debating with an older generation of ismaili and so you must have some strong beliefs that your elders and jamats explained in your generation. However, the new generation of ismailis will likely respect those beliefs but fundamentally the constitution and the farmans of MHI will be held to the absolute authority.
Admin
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Post by Admin »

So start believing in the Farmans to start with. Hazar Imam said our faith is based on thousands of years of history and we should not believe that we can change or delete its components. If you are a sincere Ismaili searching honestly for what is your faith, you will be able to find the exact wordings.
sheri
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Post by sheri »

Admin wrote:So start believing in the Farmans to start with. Hazar Imam said our faith is based on thousands of years of history and we should not believe that we can change or delete its components. If you are a sincere Ismaili searching honestly for what is your faith, you will be able to find the exact wordings.
I believe in the constitution and and any farmans by MHI. He guides me and will always guide his murids the way he likes. I believe them that is why I am asking individuals on this forum to forward the historic materials that you have to the Toronto council as mentioned by the farman so it can be preserved.

Thank you.
Admin
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Post by Admin »

Please take some courses in English. There is no Farman saying that the documents have to be given to the Toronto Council. Do you know how to read? Or are you stuck perpetually Sheri, in your imagination that Imam used the name "Council"???????

Or is it again your game to mislead? Last warning, your account will be deleted if you post one more such message.
tret
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Post by tret »

Admin wrote:The concept of a Constitution is not to list each element of doctrines one by one. That is only common sense. On does not need to be a Constitutional Expert to understand this.
Then, please Admin, can you let us -- new generation -- know, what exactly the purpose of the Ismaili Constitution?

If the articles are not to be followed, believed and accepted genuinely, then what exactly is the purpose of it?

You should know that we [young generation] look at you [older generation] to teach us [What MHI has stated in the resolution of Paris in 1975] the essence of our Tariqa. Please if there's any mistakes you see from us [younger generation], then have the humbleness and forgiveness, to forgive us; but provided that you can convince us with logic, reasoning, and solid evidence and prove. As I stated many times now, that I am an ordinary person, with lots of questions.
tret
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Post by tret »

nuseri wrote:...BTW 75% of the publications are from Non Ismaili writers...
What does it imply? Do you think it's a weakness?
Admin
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Post by Admin »

tret wrote: You should know that we [young generation] look at you [older generation] to teach us [What MHI has stated in the resolution of Paris in 1975]


Paris resolution isn't signed by the Imam but by Iqbal Rupani. The Minutes written were contested and the Ismailia Association does not exist anymore by the Order of the Imam. Please do not try to be more catholique then the Pope.
tret
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Post by tret »

Admin wrote:
tret wrote: You should know that we [young generation] look at you [older generation] to teach us [What MHI has stated in the resolution of Paris in 1975]


Paris resolution isn't signed by the Imam but by Iqbal Rupani. The Minutes written were contested and the Ismailia Association does not exist anymore by the Order of the Imam. Please do not try to be more catholique then the Pope.

Then, one would wonder in their right state of mind, what was MHI's role in that event, Who chaired the conference?

Regardless of the validity of the conference resolution -- because according to my understanding, it just affirms the points that we are discussing here -- what are you seeing wrong with any element of the conference? This is what I have been asking every participants, and so far I haven't got any reasonable answer.

I really doubt the issue is the Conference, I now start to think that the issue is deeper than that.

I like your sense of humor about being catholic... :D

You have more power at your hand; you can delete posts; delete accounts; block accounts, etc... but, a piece of advise; justice exercised in secret is even better than liberty; but justice professed openly may lead to hypocrisy.
nuseri
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Post by nuseri »

Ya Ali Madad.
Chairing the conference as shown in the minutes does not mean authorized may be an tactical arpproval by MHI.
In fact many time chairperson appointed are never present in many conferences held worldwide on any given day in many fields.

As a analogy It can be seen that group of faculty/administrators are preparing prospectus for their university.
Is is but natural for the dean to head or chair that meeting and give formal approval 'what prospectus is prepared will be for new students
or education advisers and media etc.
the point n features mentioning the university does not become a binding
syllabus for any student .
Just because the dean chaired that meeting .
the prospectus of the university does not change or discontinue the
course material or library book ,change of faculty for which purpose
the student is seeking admission in that university.
the student will ONLY GO higher to next year of class what is learned there and not keep harping about the prospectus.one of the point
could have been what "Head" of the university to understood and called.
from any of below to standardize it.
Teacher,professor,Sir,Dean.Guru,Aalim,Doctor(if qualified PhD).
regardless Dean still stays as Father to his children in his house
during 70's and even today children were showed foto of MHI was
told to them he is 'Ya Ali Bappa'/O Ali Father(it remind me of last minutes of Jesus before death) to outsiders also they stuck to these 3 words not able to explain or defend it.That is the word 'Explain' to jamat n NOT 'absolute belief'
word is there and also rider attached with the same 'word' with
inspiration of varing levels is there.

I am awaiting to hear from all Lord Vishnu experts
what is their view/belief/conviction of the word 'Mazhar'?
tret
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Post by tret »

nuseri wrote:Ya Ali Madad.
Chairing the conference as shown in the minutes does not mean authorized may be an tactical arpproval by MHI.
In fact many time chairperson appointed are never present in many conferences held worldwide on any given day in many fields.

As a analogy It can be seen that group of faculty/administrators are preparing prospectus for their university.
Is is but natural for the dean to head or chair that meeting and give formal approval 'what prospectus is prepared will be for new students
or education advisers and media etc.
the point n features mentioning the university does not become a binding
syllabus for any student .
Just because the dean chaired that meeting .
the prospectus of the university does not change or discontinue the
course material or library book ,change of faculty for which purpose
the student is seeking admission in that university.
the student will ONLY GO higher to next year of class what is learned there and not keep harping about the prospectus.one of the point
could have been what "Head" of the university to understood and called.
from any of below to standardize it.
Teacher,professor,Sir,Dean.Guru,Aalim,Doctor(if qualified PhD).
regardless Dean still stays as Father to his children in his house
during 70's and even today children were showed foto of MHI was
told to them he is 'Ya Ali Bappa'/O Ali Father(it remind me of last minutes of Jesus before death) to outsiders also they stuck to these 3 words not able to explain or defend it.That is the word 'Explain' to jamat n NOT 'absolute belief'
word is there and also rider attached with the same 'word' with
inspiration of varing levels is there.

I am awaiting to hear from all Lord Vishnu experts
what is their view/belief/conviction of the word 'Mazhar'?
It's your opinion about the conference, and you have your rights to believe what you believe. I have different view.

But, like I said, let's assume for a moment, that the conference was staged, and it was a tactical move. Let's get to the real issue. Because, according to my understanding, I really don't see anything off about ismailie belief and school of thoughts, in the resolutions passed at the conference.

So, if according to you it was a tactical move, and does not necessarily hold truth. Then please let us know, a)show us the article that's not correct b) backup with Farmaan, any Ayat of Qur'an that's contradicting any elements of the Conference [Specifically the articles of interests are the concept of Imam and God]/
nuseri
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Post by nuseri »

To tret/sheri:
you two are ones whom I would call as a member of the Dean's family in the house as his beloved children refuse on his face n others
to call him Father.
As dean ,the student,others and his haters will call him anything they like
A father stay father to his child all his life.
Unless you two have kicked out for house.
and wondering what to call HIM out of various names
available for him OUTSIDE the House.

By sheer shallow faith you'll are already as Nafarmani certified ex Ismailis at least to me.
Using this forum to vent frustration n pull leg of the scholars from
material of 'Inspiration of faith' like farman,ginan,qasida.tasbih.
and trying to pull existing family members current Ismailis(not ex)
to religious doctrines n speeches of some importance and lowering down n trying to nullify all of above with academic info of conference n
basic lines of the constitution.

Try to amend your curse souls.result is there on earth who went ashtray against Imams.

By the way as posted by Admin.
the resolutions was NOT all signed by MHI at all.
then you jump to his presence.
if not physically present as passing of that point.
like a regular coward point out that he was the chairperson then.

This resolutions has become a info tool for need be.(outsiders)
PRO material like prospectus.

Only few dozen around 100 out of apprx 25 million Ismailis may
know its content and few cursed one
wants to have it as basic of their faith. n for other millions.

Have every shit written in any books


as your basics.WHO CARES.

For an ex or cursed Ismaili,the forum members does NOT care or give a damn,may be have some pity or concern on how they screwed up n went ashtray.

Looks like Admin trying to be like a Guardian( a noble deed) if not the father for cursed
n ex Ismailis.
zznoor
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:38 pm

Post by zznoor »

Nuseri
As a analogy It can be seen that group of faculty/administrators are preparing prospectus for their university.
Is is but natural for the dean to head or chair that meeting and give formal approval 'what prospectus is prepared will be for new students
or education advisers and media etc.
the point n features mentioning the university does not become a binding

Etc etc etc
Religion is not school and deception should not be part of religion. We live in modern time. You cannot crucify anybody for his beliefs.
nuseri
Posts: 1373
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:54 am

Post by nuseri »

To zznoor.Ya Ali Madad
You have to reply to pending two post addressed to your category status (Shariatis of today).
For the two shallow Tariqatis with time to come one clever one can be faithful tariqati and one intelligent can move forward to faithful tariqati n even haqiqati.
their souls still has some grace left.
You are a total lost and damaged case awaiting to be reborn in Shariati avataar at exotic hot (55 degrees Celsius) n happening place.
Awaiting your reply on the two post.
tret
Posts: 1195
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:09 pm

Post by tret »

nuseri wrote:To tret/sheri:
you two are ones whom I would call as a member of the Dean's family in the house as his beloved children refuse on his face n others
to call him Father.
As dean ,the student,others and his haters will call him anything they like
A father stay father to his child all his life.
Unless you two have kicked out for house.
and wondering what to call HIM out of various names
available for him OUTSIDE the House.

By sheer shallow faith you'll are already as Nafarmani certified ex Ismailis at least to me.
Using this forum to vent frustration n pull leg of the scholars from
material of 'Inspiration of faith' like farman,ginan,qasida.tasbih.
and trying to pull existing family members current Ismailis(not ex)
to religious doctrines n speeches of some importance and lowering down n trying to nullify all of above with academic info of conference n
basic lines of the constitution.

Try to amend your curse souls.result is there on earth who went ashtray against Imams.

By the way as posted by Admin.
the resolutions was NOT all signed by MHI at all.
then you jump to his presence.
if not physically present as passing of that point.
like a regular coward point out that he was the chairperson then.

This resolutions has become a info tool for need be.(outsiders)
PRO material like prospectus.

Only few dozen around 100 out of apprx 25 million Ismailis may
know its content and few cursed one
wants to have it as basic of their faith. n for other millions.

Have every shit written in any books


as your basics.WHO CARES.

For an ex or cursed Ismaili,the forum members does NOT care or give a damn,may be have some pity or concern on how they screwed up n went ashtray.

Looks like Admin trying to be like a Guardian( a noble deed) if not the father for cursed
n ex Ismailis.

Who's an ismaili who's not, let's leave it to MHI. You and I are nobody to declare anyone as an ismaili/true ismaili/non-ismaili. Whatever we say, it's very subjective to our views and beliefs.

Besides, like I said, this is not a problem of the Paris Conference, I think the problem is deeper than that. Let's assume the conference was stage and the constitution has no value (However, I totally disagree with that, but just for your sake, let's assume that).


Let us know kindly, and backup your claim by any a)Farmaan, b)Aya of Qur'an c)Du'a, Tasbih
That proves your point that ALI = ALLAH.

Any reference prior to jama'at of Indo-Pak conversion would be highly appreciated.
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