Ruhani and Ibadat

[al-azhar]

Does any one know if after one passes away into eternal life, can that ruhani do ibadat. And if that soul were ever to reach the seventh heavan, can it commit sins?

[kmaherali]

Yes angelic beings do perform Ibaadat in its broadest sense, that is, submission to Allah's will. We know of the incidence where Allah commanded angels to bow to Hazarat Adam. Allah also uses his angels to perform broader heavenly tasks. For example, in the granth "Anant Akhado" there is mention of the Lord designating angels (huraau) to assist murids on Sirat-ul-Mustaqueem.

Also we have references alluding to elevated souls seeking forgiveness and mercy in the higher realms. The following verses alludes to Hazarat Musa's predicament.

ejee tab musaane tapaj saadhyaa
navso varas tap saadhyaa -
ebee.............................84

At that moment Musa underwent prayers and
supplications. For nine hundred years he meditated.


ejee teenaku(n) deedaar haju na huvaa
taaku(n) chhatthe aasmaan beetthaayaa -
ebee................85

But still he did not attain the Vision. He was seated
at the sixth heaven(awaiting for the Divine
visitation).

In my opinion as long as one has not attained unity with Imam he is sinful. Sins are relative. What is virtue in this realm could be considered a sin in higher realms. The sins in the higher realms would be related to consciousness or thought, not action.

[al-azhar]

Thank you kmaherali for your input. From SMS's farmans, Azazil fell from the seventh heaven. Does that mean that being in the seventh heaven does not mean being one with Allah as Nabi Issa, Pir Shams and Mansur are?

[kmaherali]

Thank you kmaherali for your input. From SMS's farmans, Azazil fell from the seventh heaven. Does that mean that being in the seventh heaven does not mean being one with Allah as Nabi Issa, Pir Shams and Mansur are?

You are welcome! I believe the seventh heaven is the highest heaven before being one with Allah. As long as you are in heavens you are not one with him. Heavens are the 'Sifati'(expressive) aspects of Allah whereas one ness is oneness with the essence(Imam).

Having said that, there are souls who achieve oneness and then for the wider interests of creation re emerge or reappear and move around in the heavens. These retain the dual aspect of essence and expression. In this category would be Pir Shamsh, Nabi Isa and Mansur.

[Kafton]

good explanation[/i][/b]

[Diva]

I would like to know the meaning of asaal meh vasaal ker when we say dua for ruhani. Thanks

[yaali101]

kmaherali,

What is the point of becoming an angel? We were meant to be higher than them, but unfortunately most of us are in a state that is way lower then them. Do you not believe that becoming an angel is one more step in getting to be one with Allah?

[kmaherali]

I would like to know the meaning of asaal meh vasaal ker when we say dua for ruhani. Thanks

In my opinion, asal means origin and wasal means return and kar means make it happen. Hence the phrase would mean "return the ruhani (soul of the deceased) to it's origin" which reflects the Quranic phrase "from You we come and to You we return".

This Dua also reminds us of our origin and the need to prepare for our return to it.

[kmaherali]

kmaherali,

What is the point of becoming an angel? We were meant to be higher than them, but unfortunately most of us are in a state that is way lower then them. Do you not believe that becoming an angel is one more step in getting to be one with Allah?

YAM,

I will mention two quotes of MSMS which addresses the issue you have raised. I need no say anything more as they are self explanatory.

"Your eyes, tongue, hands and everything should be pious and nothing should remain but piety. A person possessing these qualities is an angel."(Precious Pearls, No. 35)

"Mowlana Rumi declared that he had once existed in the form of an inanimate rock. From this, he evolved into plant-life from which, becoming a tiny worm, he finally attained an animal existence; from the latter he acquired a human life. 'Where shall I go from hence?' he asks himself. 'I shall soar like an angel and thence I shall rise even higher.' You must aim eventually at fana (annihilation)." (Farman, Usul-e-Din, 1899)

[Diva]

I would like to know the meaning of asaal meh vasaal ker when we say dua for ruhani. Thanks

In my opinion, asal means origin and wasal means return and kar means make it happen. Hence the phrase would mean "return the ruhani (soul of the deceased) to it's origin" which reflects the Quranic phrase "from You we come and to You we return".

This Dua also reminds us of our origin and the need to prepare for our return to it.

kmaherali thank you for your reply, it is very much appreciated.

[azamour]

Asal Makan?

Why should i desire for that?

Soul was there before "Me" and will be there after "Me". God was always there and will always be their. What we are told is that we have to let go of Ana(Ego/selfness) to attain Gods nearness or unity. Whether we unite with God or not it dosent affect Him. As he is united with every thing any way. nothing is seperate from God.
What really matters is my identity, "My" existance. If I unite with God do "I" exist any more. If "I" cease to exist, why would i want that?

I dont know if i make sense, but atleast I exist.

If purpose of creation was for everything to return back to God? than what exactly was the purpose?

[nashvelshi]

" I was a hidden treasure and desired to be known, therefore I created the creation in order that I might be known"

Sounds very egotistical but if anyone has a right to be egotistical, who else but God.

[kmaherali]

Asal Makan?

If purpose of creation was for everything to return back to God? than what exactly was the purpose?

YAM azamour,

Actually returning to God is the basic common denominator understanding of the purpose so that everyone is aware at the basic level. Like all common understandings, it is tied to the common notion of space/time/causality. Once a person elevates himself these notions will also evolve and assume different meanings as the notions of space/time/causality change.

At the next level, the purpose is not just to return but to grow into and ultimately become Him and in the process enjoy His creation as a majestic procession and not merely an existence to be endured awaiting return. MSMS says in his memoir:

"It is said that we live, move and have our being in God. We find this concept expressed often in the Koran, not in those words of course, but just as beautifully and more tersely. But when we realize the meaning of this saying, we are already preparing ourselves for the gift of the power of direct experience."

"But having known the real, the Absolute, having understood the Universe as an infinite succession of events, intended by God, we need an ethic, a code of conduct in order to be able to elevate ourselves toward the ideal demanded by God".

Yes I agree with you that one of the ways of preparing/elevating ourselves id to clear the false sense of identity or ego. The following poem beautifully expresses these sentiments.

All my inhibition left me in a flash,

By Vidyapati
(1340? - 1430)

English version by Azfar Hussain

All my inhibition left me in a flash,
When he robbed me of my clothes,
But his body became my new dress.
Like a bee hovering on a lotus leaf
He was there in my night, on me!

True, the god of love never hesitates!
He is free and determined like a bird
Winging toward the clouds it loves.
Yet I remember the mad tricks he played,
My heart restlessly burning with desire
Was yet filled with fear!

In the above verse, robbing of clothes means removing the false sense of identity with ego. After robbing He Himself becomes the new dress, i.e., one becomes identified with Him and his purpose and see creation through His eyes and enjoy it in that manner. Being on me implies that he becomes a constant companion.

By 'clouds it loves' is implied a mind that is elevated through devotion and is imbued with intense longing.

[Irfan_Kadiwal]

Asal Makan?

Why should i desire for that?

Soul was there before "Me" and will be there after "Me". God was always there and will always be their. What we are told is that we have to let go of Ana(Ego/selfness) to attain Gods nearness or unity. Whether we unite with God or not it dosent affect Him. As he is united with every thing any way. nothing is seperate from God.
What really matters is my identity, "My" existance. If I unite with God do "I" exist any more. If "I" cease to exist, why would i want that?

I dont know if i make sense, but atleast I exist.

If purpose of creation was for everything to return back to God? than what exactly was the purpose?

Hi,

Its not about your existence.
Everyone was sent to earth to live life on earth and return back to GOD.
We are like a drop seperted from OCEAN(GOD).
We have to ultimately unite with him.
For which we cannot be impure with sins.

your quote
"I" exist any more. If "I" cease to exist, why would i want that?

The above statment wouldn't have come in your mind if u ever realised what I in it is.
Its the drop...

Hope i cleared some of your doubt.

[farzanalalani]

<P>ya ali madad<BR><BR>the meaning of asal makam is very very batuni (religious )in our religion it means that ;<BR>LET OUR SOUL BE o&shy;nE WITH ALLAH coz this is why we have come it means marifat o&shy;ne with the almighty<BR><BR><BR></P>