After death

[agakhani]

If we start interpreting Farameen Mubarak this way, God forbid we'll end up like what Sunnies have with so many unauthentic hadis.

So, you think you are smart then 3 well known Al-Waezs and one author who interpreted what I wrote earlier in their waezes and in a book!?, Who are you? are you think whatever you interpret is the right and others wrong!!
Please do not think you are only smart and others are fool! you need to know what was the background about this farmans? whay such farmans was delivered and then after you have to interpret.
In other words you are trying to say that whatever SMS has told in his farman about Imam and Imamat is not true and your interpretation is true!!!


The above farmans which I quoted ( not exact text) was delivered in Kathiawad, when many jamati members were not attend JK, didn't pay dasond and used to consider themselves as an Ismaili but they were propaganda against Ismaili religion and against Imam, and started to convert in Sunnism therefore SMS told them you are killing imam's life. and consider them as 'YAZZID' The place I think was "Bhav Nagar"

That is true that Imamat will not end but obviously not going JK, not paying dasond and not obey the farmans; definitely cut off the lives of our Imam because SMS told us that!!

[Admin]

To the question of why this is relevant to the thread, I would say this:

The thread is "after death." And the question of who is against the Imam came.

I suppose they, the people who oppose Imam, will be accountable after death and showing some of the actions that lead to that accountability is part of the thread. You may have a dissenting opinion. We all respect that.

[tret]

To the question of why this is relevant to the thread, I would say this:

The thread is "after death." And the question of who is against the Imam came.

I suppose they, the people who oppose Imam, will be accountable after death and showing some of the actions that lead to that accountability is part of the thread. You may have a dissenting opinion. We all respect that.

Right, but what I was specifically asking about the relevance of this particular Farmaan is who's it applicable in this debate of few participants? Apparently the other participants are implying that it's very well applicable to me, because I simply don't share their belief? Then where's the pluralism? Where's the tolerance that we'r boasting about? Where's the respect for other's belief? You see MHI has been trying to build bridge between other communities, like Christians and Jews, look at us, issuing fatwa against our own ismailie brothers?

The other thing, I am really puzzled, is what's so wrong about what I am saying? Admin, you appear to share the same belief as other participants, so be mindful, and let me know if I am saying something that's wayyyy off and so non-ismaili? Did I say anything bad about Ismailies, Ismailie tariqa, about the Imam? What's is it so unacceptable that everybody's ready to crucify me? Besides, these are not stuff that I made up! These are Ismailie belief! If only one had a little knowledge about our rich history and the doctrine of Ismailie, he would never called our greatest Hujjat's work 'crap', 'bulshit' and etc... If this is not pure ignorance, then I don't know what would be considered? Insulting the Hujjat of Imam is insulting the Imam Himself.

When people don't have answer, they get emotional and use all kind of language that's really not suitable for someone who boast about being intellectual. Like I said, people reflects their values and beliefs in their speeches and deeds. Now, I don't know anyone personally and haven't meet anyone personally in this forum and hard to say how's their deeds, but sure as hell most of participants manifest a whole lot of their personality and beliefs in their tone of expression.

[agakhani]

Sorry admin for just getting of the tract but since it is on board then let me finish it here the place name where SMS told jamats that you are killing my Imamat, ( he may be refer his life) and compare the jamat with "Yazid" was 'MAHUVA' in his another farmans he compare Mahuva with 'KUFA'.

Brother Treat,

If you do not know the background or reason of such kind farmans then obviously you should not give any interpretation, this is my point.
Your another wrong interpretation was about 10 incarnation (DAS AVATAR) WHERE SMS HIMSELF APPROVED AND OTHER 3 MORE IMAMS MENTIONED ABOUT 10 INCARNATION THEN YOU GAVE SOME WEIRD INTERPRETATION WHICH WAS NOT ACCEPTABLE. PERIOD. we are Akal e-Zooz while Imams are Akla-E-Qool.

[a_27826]

" they are killing my imamat" this words are not mine but SMS told in his one farmans

The above farmans which I quoted ( not exact text) was delivered in Kathiawad, when many jamati members were not attend JK, didn't pay dasond and used to consider themselves as an Ismaili but they were propaganda against Ismaili religion and against Imam, and started to convert in Sunnism therefore SMS told them you are killing imam's life. and consider them as 'YAZZID' The place I think was "Bhav Nagar"

Although i don't have the firman with me to study the above quote. but something doesn't sound right, if you take the consideration of the following verses.

009:032 they desire to extinguish the Light of God with their mouths but God refuses and will perfect His Light, though the unbelievers be averse.

047:038 God is the All-sufficient; you are the needy ones. If you turn away, He will substitute another people instead of you, then they will not be your likes

Now how can some people in Kathiawar extinguish Imamate?

Imam doesn't need you but you need Imam.

[tret]

Sorry admin for just getting of the tract but since it is on board then let me finish it here the place name where SMS told jamats that you are killing my Imamat, ( he may be refer his life) and compare the jamat with "Yazid" was 'MAHUVA' in his another farmans he compare Mahuva with 'KUFA'.

Brother Treat,

If you do not know the background or reason of such kind farmans then obviously you should not give any interpretation, this is my point.
Your another wrong interpretation was about 10 incarnation (DAS AVATAR) WHERE SMS HIMSELF APPROVED AND OTHER 3 MORE IMAMS MENTIONED ABOUT 10 INCARNATION THEN YOU GAVE SOME WEIRD INTERPRETATION WHICH WAS NOT ACCEPTABLE. PERIOD. we are Akal e-Zooz while Imams are Akla-E-Qool.

Right or Wrong is subjective at our level. What appears right to you, may not appear right to someone else. Imam's Farameen is subject to murid's level of understanding. You may understand "killing the Imamat" as litteral, but where Admin pointed out, it could very well mean altering Farameen Mubarak and preventing access to Farameen. So, everyone has their own level of understanding about Farameen. Now, you can't say that what you belief is correct and only that, and everyone else who believes otherwise are wrong. You have your belief about reincarnation and I have mine. But, what's important to realize is we are all Ismailies and follow the same Imam of the time. I know only jamat from india believe in reincarnation [in litteral form] no other jamats. I think you are confused same as zznoor. Interpreting a concept differently is totally different than denying it.


- What I want from you all, is to tell me what is so wrong and non-islamic or non-ismaili about what I am describing here?

I have asked this question multiple times and there's no one able answer it, and yet everyone's so worked up and giving fatwa to kill me, if they could only. So, either proove me wrong! or accept that you don't have any answer.


Ahh ... and one more thing. It's very important to whom a Farmaan is addressed to. Just the fact that this particular farmaan was addressed to a group of Jamat, it tells alot that there were more people at that audiance, who would qualify "yazid" "shimr", and hence the Faramaan. Something to think about.

Faith of a believer is tested during harsh times. At time of convenience everyone will remain loyal; but when the time's tough where you are prosecuted and killed or hanged just for being an Ismailie, then that's the real test of your faith. There are Jamat who were exactly at that circumstances but yet their faith are unshakable and they were/are loyal to their faith and Imam.

[tret]

To Tret:Ya Ali Madad.
In one of your early post,where original extract I presume was posted.
God existed and order was given.If these do not refer to Imam or Allah.
then this piece of garbage is mentioned as reference.

If God created everything,Whys this crap word of Aql/Nafs e Kul was coined
He does need to recreate himself. these word are not mentioned In Quran.

your shallow level of faith is making you to distort the truth and cunningly put up statements(you are precisely doing this from day

I got some info lately that out of approx 100000 Ismailis in India,Only 6-8 seniors of religious board know about 'Paris conference concept resolutions and 3 from those know it's actual content.It may not be there in their archives being 39 years old.
If this concept paper were at all circulated to see it as our cardinal Ismaili
doctrine by traitors of Imam,I am sure there would have been one more
sect or breakaway within us.
History tell the main reason for many Shia subsects was due very high level cleverness/cunningness and shallow faith persons who led the breakaway group.

no need to get too excited...

here's the link for your reference... honestly, I didn't know about this until very recently. I believe this was addressed to ismailie leaders, which is supposed to be implemented through the leadership. So, I think the leadership is the intended audiance, and the message should be passed though the leadership to the Jamat.

http://ismaili.net/source/legal-documen ... rupani.pdf


I think it's best to leave the judgement to Imam; He's all knowing. And no one knows from who the Imam is happy.

Second, this concept is not one of mine! This has been Ismailie doctrine and you can find this concept explain in the work of Ismailie thinkers and philosophers during Fatimid period, who's work is still available luckily.

Instead of getting too emotional, I think it's best to get informed and necessary knowledge of our tariqa, before insulting our great Hujjats!

Hujjat's are doors to Imam, so if you deny Hujjat, there's no way to get to Imam. Hadde of Hujjat is symbolized as the door to Kahbah where the door [baab] is the Hujjat, and the Kahba is symbolized to the Imam.

History tell the main reason for many Shia subsects was due very high level cleverness/cunningness and shallow faith persons who led the breakaway group.

What do you know about history [of ismailie]? What do you know about Hujjats of Ismailie? What do you know about Huddod Din of Ismaili? What do you know about Ismaili at all [ohh, apart from your self-invented formula of ALI+LAH=ALLAH...]?

Breakdown happens for sure, but when there's lack of tolerance and pluralism. When one group can not accept of tolerate the believe or POV of another person. If we follow what our beloved MHI tells us to, I don't believe there will be any break down. But, with the attitude of certain participants here, the breakdown can be on the horizon. The choice is ours to make. We can be tolerant or ignorant!! It's all ours.

[nuseri]

To tret:Ya Ali madad.

In farman there is no plurlism,where your screwed up faith will accept only where Imam doe not say he is ALI and conviction of Ali Allah.
It is unilateral absolute ordinance for all true Ismailes
Farman are absolutely binding on each n every ismaili even screwed up n shallow one,
You are ONE OF DISASTER AMONGST US UNDERMINING THE NOOR OF IMAM AS ALI N ALI THAT WITH ALLAH.
r u eating garbage when you recite n parctipate in Tasbih?
If you think you can wish to not believe in farman.than
either you trying to prove that you
1.a reformist ismaili.
2.non entity but born as ismaili who does obey n follow farmans of Imam.

I doubt if you are an ismaile in the first place or become Ismailie to enter Canada.

If you go to any JK,

ask the Mukhi and other Ismailis present if we 'Ya Ali Ya Hazar Imam'
mean praying to two different entities or one?

I am an individual soul so is Admin. if you ask other members in the forum.
You shit filled shallow conviction said that MHI is an individual soul.

I cannot call millions or billions others as my spiritual children.Even my daughter tells me ,I am not her father when she is angry n not obliged
You may be because of filled up garbage in you.

ONLT MHI ON THIS EARTH IS SAYING THAT WITH FULLEST OF POWER N CONFIDENCE as GOD n Universal soul where all individual soul comes from
Instead of leaders preparing concept from their mind.

they just need the courage to ask MHI.
As you are Spiritual father. with conviction of Holy father n Universal soul status and ask him that makes you as GOD/ALLAH.
SEE THE REPLY OF MHI then.
I know what can be reply,
because I asked him the same thing at the age of fourteen in Baatin.
I got the answer. NO ROCKET SCIENCE.

You are degrading your self with lies lies n lies because of your shit shallow belief.
IMAAM IS ILM.
not clever reading n presenting shallow belief.

YOU ARE WORSE THAN SHARIATI AS ADMIN IS TRYING TO SEND ACROSS THE MESSAGE DIPLOMATICALLY TO YOU WHILE AGAKHANI N MYSELF
ARE TELLING YOU ON YOUR FACE,which smell horribly stinky to me.

[tret]

When one doesn't have no answer, then he hides behind dirty tone. It's your opinion about me as an individual, and you are entitled to it.
You have one more time proved that you have no idea whatsoever about Ismailie tariqa! You were told by your elders to follow a path, samething as a blind-fold donkey does! Now, poor donkey doesn't know, and he may do good thing, by helping his owner, but donkey remains donkey!

For a hindu, it's very easy to call a person, like shah rukh khan god! Why? because it's their culture. It's who they are! It's the concept of god that they have and believes that god can reincarnate into cows, monkeys and elephant with six legs. Let me ask you this now, mr. marifati. Who did you call Allah, before becoming ismaili?

I bet you, if you guys were in a situation where central asian jama'at were, you were turned away from ismailie loooong time ago, like your akbar ali maherali and the other prek in pakistan who kisses woman's feet and a disgrace to ismailies.

Most of you guys are ashamed to be called muslim, but try to tie yourself closely to hindu culture and belief. Don't you understand that pir's and dai's used the techniques to convert you'all into ismailies, and they did a wonderful job. but at some point, you need to snap out of your forefothers toughts and beliefs. I know it can be tough to let go of somehting that has been near and dear to you. Tell me if you still keep the little sculpture of your previous bagwan? lol...

This is the reality, face it!

MHI during the golden jublee in 2008 has mentioned in Vancouver Canada that central asian jama'at is the face of ismailies! That's very important, and you guys need to learn from them. You think you are an ismailie only when you say ali is allah. But you don't even understand who ali is and who allah is. You are confidently confused like a blind-folded donkey who carrys burden of load but has no idea why.

You guys are disgrace to ismailies, it's because of you all that today ismailie has a bad image amongs other ummah, and MHI tries to build those bridges. Think about it. What you belief is personal to you! You don't need to annouce it! What MHI is to me is personal to me. (how do you know, that I don't value HIM more than you, even if you say ALI=Allah?) It's my belief and I keep it secret! If you have a little brain, then you know what I mean!!!!

[ShamsB]

When one doesn't have no answer, then he hides behind dirty tone. It's your opinion about me as an individual, and you are entitled to it.
You have one more time proved that you have no idea whatsoever about Ismailie tariqa! You were told by your elders to follow a path, samething as a blind-fold donkey does! Now, poor donkey doesn't know, and he may do good thing, by helping his owner, but donkey remains donkey!

For a hindu, it's very easy to call a person, like shah rukh khan god! Why? because it's their culture. It's who they are! It's the concept of god that they have and believes that god can reincarnate into cows, monkeys and elephant with six legs. Let me ask you this now, mr. marifati. Who did you call Allah, before becoming ismaili?

I bet you, if you guys were in a situation where central asian jama'at were, you were turned away from ismailie loooong time ago, like your akbar ali maherali and the other prek in pakistan who kisses woman's feet and a disgrace to ismailies.

Most of you guys are ashamed to be called muslim, but try to tie yourself closely to hindu culture and belief. Don't you understand that pir's and dai's used the techniques to convert you'all into ismailies, and they did a wonderful job. but at some point, you need to snap out of your forefothers toughts and beliefs. I know it can be tough to let go of somehting that has been near and dear to you. Tell me if you still keep the little sculpture of your previous bagwan? lol...

This is the reality, face it!

MHI during the golden jublee in 2008 has mentioned in Vancouver Canada that central asian jama'at is the face of ismailies! That's very important, and you guys need to learn from them. You think you are an ismailie only when you say ali is allah. But you don't even understand who ali is and who allah is. You are confidently confused like a blind-folded donkey who carrys burden of load but has no idea why.

You guys are disgrace to ismailies, it's because of you all that today ismailie has a bad image amongs other ummah, and MHI tries to build those bridges. Think about it. What you belief is personal to you! You don't need to annouce it! What MHI is to me is personal to me. (how do you know, that I don't value HIM more than you, even if you say ALI=Allah?) It's my belief and I keep it secret! If you have a little brain, then you know what I mean!!!!

Seriously people - we don't need zznoor to come in here and sow discord - we're enough in ourselves.

How about agreeing to disagree? and accepting that each has the right to believe what they want to believe.

As the Imam has often said - I am who you take me to be. (farman of MSMS).

Both of you are coming across as intolerant pompous asses.

Nuseri - what you have and what you believe as a result of your personal experience - cannot be explained to all.

Tret - similarily your understanding of ismailism and how you position it - is unique to your tradition and where you come from - for a lot of of "satpanthi" ismailies - our tradition comes from a indic background and that is what we understand - no one said that it is wrong - it is your opinion that this is hinduistic - that is great - but you cannot pass judgement.

Some of the posts I read aren't about learning - but rather shoving a belief system down another person's throat - proving them wrong - and trying to show intellectual superiority....or an forcing a different understanding...

Let people be happy in their beliefs - who are we to individually judge?

It seems that we're listening to respond versus listening to listen and understand.

Shams

[tret]

When one doesn't have no answer, then he hides behind dirty tone. It's your opinion about me as an individual, and you are entitled to it.
You have one more time proved that you have no idea whatsoever about Ismailie tariqa! You were told by your elders to follow a path, samething as a blind-fold donkey does! Now, poor donkey doesn't know, and he may do good thing, by helping his owner, but donkey remains donkey!

For a hindu, it's very easy to call a person, like shah rukh khan god! Why? because it's their culture. It's who they are! It's the concept of god that they have and believes that god can reincarnate into cows, monkeys and elephant with six legs. Let me ask you this now, mr. marifati. Who did you call Allah, before becoming ismaili?

I bet you, if you guys were in a situation where central asian jama'at were, you were turned away from ismailie loooong time ago, like your akbar ali maherali and the other prek in pakistan who kisses woman's feet and a disgrace to ismailies.

Most of you guys are ashamed to be called muslim, but try to tie yourself closely to hindu culture and belief. Don't you understand that pir's and dai's used the techniques to convert you'all into ismailies, and they did a wonderful job. but at some point, you need to snap out of your forefothers toughts and beliefs. I know it can be tough to let go of somehting that has been near and dear to you. Tell me if you still keep the little sculpture of your previous bagwan? lol...

This is the reality, face it!

MHI during the golden jublee in 2008 has mentioned in Vancouver Canada that central asian jama'at is the face of ismailies! That's very important, and you guys need to learn from them. You think you are an ismailie only when you say ali is allah. But you don't even understand who ali is and who allah is. You are confidently confused like a blind-folded donkey who carrys burden of load but has no idea why.

You guys are disgrace to ismailies, it's because of you all that today ismailie has a bad image amongs other ummah, and MHI tries to build those bridges. Think about it. What you belief is personal to you! You don't need to annouce it! What MHI is to me is personal to me. (how do you know, that I don't value HIM more than you, even if you say ALI=Allah?) It's my belief and I keep it secret! If you have a little brain, then you know what I mean!!!!

Seriously people - we don't need zznoor to come in here and sow discord - we're enough in ourselves.

How about agreeing to disagree? and accepting that each has the right to believe what they want to believe.

As the Imam has often said - I am who you take me to be. (farman of MSMS).

Both of you are coming across as intolerant pompous asses.

Nuseri - what you have and what you believe as a result of your personal experience - cannot be explained to all.

Tret - similarily your understanding of ismailism and how you position it - is unique to your tradition and where you come from - for a lot of of "satpanthi" ismailies - our tradition comes from a indic background and that is what we understand - no one said that it is wrong - it is your opinion that this is hinduistic - that is great - but you cannot pass judgement.

Some of the posts I read aren't about learning - but rather shoving a belief system down another person's throat - proving them wrong - and trying to show intellectual superiority....or an forcing a different understanding...

Let people be happy in their beliefs - who are we to individually judge?

It seems that we're listening to respond versus listening to listen and understand.

Shams

ShamsB, I wish everyone would think as you do. The other participant are coming here with a sword to start a war. Please compare my responses vise-a-vis others, and tell me if I imposed anything on them, or have I disrespected their belief! I have never passed judgement on anyone, even to our non-ismaili participant, except this last reply, which was specific to his reply!

On the other hand, this is a forum, and everyone's welcome to express their opinion, and in if anyone can backup their arguments with credible resources then what's wrong with that?

Apparently according to most participant here, there's seriously something wrong with what I am saying. And all I ask is to show me what is so wrong, so I can learn and correct myself. But, still they are too shy to tell me so.

Look at nuseri's reply, and his tone of language. I would never expect this type of language which is fueled with anger and hate against a group of people, from an ismailie! An true ismailie doesn't hate another ismailie, unless he's just ismailie by name and convenience. I can bet you, if the convintion of ismailism is taken away, nuseri would be the first one to turn away from ismailism. The reason why I am saying, is that he demonstrated over and over very poor understanding of our tariqa, and zero knowledge of islam. He disrespected our beloved Prophet. The Qur'an, our greate Hujjats and Dai's and Pir's. Even he questions MHI's authority. So, what part of his so ismaili? only because he equates Imam Ali to Allah? I can stamp you that he has absolutly no idea what Allah is, or who Imam Ali is! He has an understanding of God/Allah as he knew it from his hindic belief, and I am totally okay with that. But, if he start judging someone else, then I don't think that's right.

[Admin]

Maybe few people are posting in comparison of the thousands who are reading the posts, please be civilized and polite, it does not cost a dime and it keeps sanity in the discussion. This is basic and is part of the rules of this Forum - please do not forget that.

[tret]

Maybe few people are posting in comparison of the thousands who are reading the posts, please be civilized and polite, it does not cost a dime and it keeps sanity in the discussion. This is basic and is part of the rules of this Forum - please do not forget that.

I really wish everyone would be mindful about that.

There are elements of our tariqa that should not openly expressed in a public forum, and I wish participants keep that in mind.

[tret]

Tret - similarily your understanding of ismailism and how you position it - is unique to your tradition and where you come from ...

I would really beg to differ on this.

I have been raised in a very orthodox mainstream sunni environment; however, I don't share any value as such at all. The understanding that I have is all based on the material which is to all Ismailie disposal from the work of our great Dai's and Pir's, specifically during the Fatimid era, such as Nasir-uldin Tusi, Shams-e-Tabriz, Hassan-e-Sabah, Abu Yaqub-i-Sajistani, Nasir-e-Khusraw, and more. The concept that I was trying to describe, can be found in all these Ismailie thinkers, philosophers and Hujjats. Most all of the works are now being translated into English and being published by Ismaili Studies center, so everyone can benefit from it.

So, I really don't believe that our background should have an effect in our belief. Our Ismailie belief and Aqida should be according to Ismailie school of thoughts and Doctrine. But, I don't imply that everyone should agree with what I believe, NO, I never imply that. Everyone has their own journey and level of understanding and realization and hence their belief. Like you said, I respect others belief, and so should everyone else.

[nuseri]

Ya Ali Madad.
firstly show me where Imam has said
there is pluralism is accepting his farmans.
you are a ABSOLUTE coward tariqati telling reason of pluralism for farman acceptance.Next he will show ismaili can select best from other faith n religions.
you are having info of printed doctrine with zero imaan on MHI is very dangerous.
I purposely attacked the hujjat to get to the source of data,as you put all data of other people as his own shallow thing and dangerously trying to explain to others.
All sufi,sagas n dai were first n foremost had conviction of Ali Allah
before even they dream t of writing something of haqiqat n marfiat.
face of central asia persons is poor aid taking segment of khoja donors.
you are not the face but an alm seeking person.
You DO NOT BELIEVE

1.FARMANS

BATIN ASPECT OF FAITH

ZERO UNDERSTANDING RICH FARSI DOCTINES.

You may cleverness n ability to put up point suiting your need.
nobody is willing to read it,and it's can lower the faith level or confuse
other faithful ismails.
Leader had concern of this website being started by strong haqiqati
maybe little stubborn that is website doe not become breeding or media
reformist or shallow ismailis weakning our faith.
seeing the posting of one a Imam hater
and another with no respect fro farman or Noorani status of Imam.
trying to post lengthy un ismaili material on average 3 posting a day.

Looking at number of visitors to forum section.I feel there be at least 20 Ismailis taking part,only 4-5 compulsive bloggers are there.
Admin must ask all registered members.
on why they shy away in posting ?
and what do they actually see in forum?
Admin will leave a good legacy of volume of against the Noor postings.

YOU ARE UNFIT TO BE CALLED AS AN ISMAILE LOOKING AT YOUR OPINION N BELIEF IN IMAM.

[tret]

You failed one too many times to reply to my questions, but i will respond to every single one of your questions. LEt's see who's shallow/garbage/one with zero knowledge.


This is a challenge! If you consider yourself an ismailie, then put up your best foot forward and at least have a decency to admit you have no clue or answer to simple questions that every Ismailie is supposed to know. But first your answers.

Ya Ali Madad.
firstly show me where Imam has said
there is pluralism is accepting his farmans.

Farameen Mubarak is directly subject to murid's understanding. You say potato, I say tomato. If we can't accept each other's level of understanding, then we end up like what we are doing now. But, if there's pluralism, then we I accept your version, and you accept mine. With time as your knowledge and undersanding elevates, then we would come to a common understanding of reality. If you don't see pluralism, then there's a problem with the vesion of pluralism that you come to know.

you are a ABSOLUTE coward tariqati telling reason of pluralism for farman acceptance.Next he will show ismaili can select best from other faith n religions.

This is purly your opinion and your subjective judgement. Everyone's entitled to their opinion. Ismaili is the Sirat-ul-Mustaqim, there's no need to select from any faith, such as hindu or sunnie or christianity. True Ismailism is the true path! Please back up your claim, otherwise it is again another one of your opinion, fueled by rage and hate!

you are having info of printed doctrine with zero imaan on MHI is very dangerous.

How do you know I have "zero imaan"? Are you god or imam? do you know and understand peoples belief? or is it that anyone who agrees with you enters paradise and whoever opposes you, is immidiately coward and with zero imaan? From where I see, you don't have any imaan, because you insult the Hujjats and question MHI's authority! So, let observers be the judge.

I purposely attacked the hujjat to get to the source of data,as you put all data of other people as his own shallow thing and dangerously trying to explain to others.

This must be one of the siliest thing I ever heard to attack the great Hujjat (remember attacking the Hujjat of the Imama, is equal to attacking the Imam Himself). No Ismailie in their correct state of mind must ever do this. But, yet you not only did it, and openly amdit it and not sorry at all. And you would do it again, just to satisfy your ego and fuel even more your hatred. Brave, you are on your way! If you don't understand something, don't assume it is wrong. The concepts that I explain, like i said, is available publicly, if you are welling to study. If you aren't interested and don't read it, that doesn't mean everyone else won't. It's dangerous only to those who don't understand it, and draw false conclusion. Exactly like what you are doing!! If you hate me, don't take it on our great Hujjats! Attack me, but not our Hujjats and Imams.

All sufi,sagas n dai were first n foremost had conviction of Ali Allah

They sure have reached the level of realization and there's no doubt about that. How do you know they had a conviction of Ali Allah? Is there a farmaan? did they tell you?


Infact, anyone with true believe must believe in Tawhid! This is one of the very first principal of Islam and Ismailis! Please read the Ismaili Constitution and see what does it say about Tawheed. Do you even know what Tawheed is? Do you know what is Wahdat? You have no idea at all! If you do, please prove me wrong! I'd love to hear your story. If you don't satisfy the very first principal of Ismaili, then how can you claim, you have reached realization? As if you don't pass first grade, and yet you claim you completed university!

face of central asia persons is poor aid taking segment of khoja donors.

What are you trying to say? Sorry your english is poor, sometimes I don't want to mis interpret what you intend to say. Please clarify, before jump to conclusion without understanding your intentions, unlike you.

you are not the face but an alm seeking person.

I never claimed I am face of Ismailie and I will never claim. It was MHI who mentioned that! Now it's up to you whether to take it or leave it, as you already did.

You DO NOT BELIEVE

1.FARMANS

BATIN ASPECT OF FAITH

ZERO UNDERSTANDING RICH FARSI DOCTINES.

There's no way one can measure belief of someone else, except Maula Himself! There's no way you can measure my belief of Iman, there's simply no way! And same is true for me. There's no way I can judge your belief of Imaan, and that's why I don't. We can draw some conclusion based on what we reflect, such as questioning the Imam's authority or attacking the Hujjats. Then we can somewhat conclude that one doesn't believe or has no Imaan. But without such ground, there's no way you can judge anyone's belief.

So you appear to have a good understanding of "rich farsi doctrine". Tell us what's farsi doctrine? Is there such thing exist as "farsi doctrine"? Please englighten me! I'd love to learn from you about this "rich farsi doctrine"...

You may cleverness n ability to put up point suiting your need.
nobody is willing to read it,and it's can lower the faith level or confuse
other faithful ismails.

My good friend, I don't consider myself to be clever or smart at all. I am a very ordinary person who's still a seeker and still have a lot of questions. But, if you think I am clever, then I am flattered and appreciate the complement.

Second, I don't put things to suit my convinience. I am simply asking for correction from you! and other participants! Please correct me what I am saying is so wrong! I am trying to learn, if you can convince me. I am not shy to say, i don't know. Please if you think I am saying something which is totally incorrect, then show me the way. Show me the right way. But, if you have no answer to tell me, and yet to blame me, then something doesn't sound right.

Leader had concern of this website being started by strong haqiqati
maybe little stubborn that is website doe not become breeding or media
reformist or shallow ismailis weakning our faith.
seeing the posting of one a Imam hater
and another with no respect fro farman or Noorani status of Imam.
trying to post lengthy un ismaili material on average 3 posting a day.

Imam hater = who's Imam hater? (The one who question HIS authority!)
no respect to farmaan = who has no respect to farmaan? (Show me where have I disrespected any farmaan or any ismailie tariqa or belief)
norani status of Imam = who disrespected and questioned the Imam's authority?
un ismaili material = please point un ismaili material! (or according to you, only when one say Ali is Allah, they are considered ismailie, and all else is shalow iman/no imaan/zero knowledge?) Is this how you draw conclusion what's considered as an ismaili materla? Wow mind blowing!

YOU ARE UNFIT TO BE CALLED AS AN ISMAILE LOOKING AT YOUR OPINION N BELIEF IN IMAM.

Again this is your opinion, and at this point I really don't care what you think. You failed multiple times over and over to show me on what basis do you say this. I am saying it's actually yourself. Because I can prove it to you, and quote you!

- you question MHI's authority, and you still stand corrected!
- you attacked the Hujjat of the Imam, which is the same as attacking the Imam Himself, and you still stand corrected!

Based on these, I am really not certain if you are fit to be an ismailie. But yet, I don't allow myself to call you a non-ismailie.

But you my fried, have no proof at all to tell me I am unfit to be an ismailie! It's not your place to call anyone a non-ismailie! Remember that.

One thing's for sure, debate with you will only go down the drain, and I really want to spend my time doing better things, and not babysit your questions. Nevertheless, I wish you well in your journey. May you one day find the truth.

[sheri]

If Ali = Allah, then during the time of Prophet Muhammad, Allah took the form of a man (Ali) and helped the prophet spread Islam. However, after the death of the prophet, Ali=Allah was unable to convince the Ummah that Ali=Allah is more praiseworthy than the holy prophet. Ali=Allah could not carry on the fight and was fleeing for his life and community on the run for 1400 years (except for the Fatmid period). If Ali is Allah, then why go through so much trouble. Why not, just use his supreme powers to overcome these threats from outsiders, take control of the world and bring peace and harmony. What is Ali=Allah waiting for?

All sufi,sagas n dai were first n foremost had conviction of Ali Allah
before even they dream t of writing something of haqiqat n marfiat.
face of central asia persons is poor aid taking segment of khoja donors.

[agakhani]

Seriously people - we don't need zznoor to come in here and sow discord - we're enough in ourselves.

Tret, are you listening this??

A PHD holder in Ismailism tell this then there is some thing in her which is not right therefore she really needs to go, don't you think so?

Shams, thanks to come forward and tell the truth, which I continuously telling for a long time; that she doesn't deserve in this site with her trash talk because her aim is not to come in this website to learn something new but her reason is different what Tret and other readers can not understand it even my warnings.

[zznoor]

Seriously people - we don't need zznoor to come in here and sow discord - we're enough in ourselves.

Tret, are you listening this??

A PHD holder in Ismailism tell this then there is some thing in her which is not right therefore she really needs to go, don't you think so?

Shams, thanks to come forward and tell the truth, which I continuously telling for a long time; that she doesn't deserve in this site with her trash talk because her aim is not to come in this website to learn something new but her reason is different what Tret and other readers can not understand it even my warnings.

[sheri]

Attacking the person individually is a sign of defeat and lack of answers to reasonable questions.

Everyone knows that the Ginans are filled with Ali=Allah sentiment and the Ginans are rampant with Hindu sentiment as well. These statements were used to equate Ali to Vishnu, to increase Hindu conversion success. The Pirs did a fantastic job in using Hindu beliefs to convince people to accept Ismailism. If Ali=Allah, the creator of this world, then why is Ali=Allah scared of revealing himself as Allah. A supreme being like Allah should not be scared of the consequences as he can control each and every human being, earth, the universe etc.

Seriously people - we don't need zznoor to come in here and sow discord - we're enough in ourselves.

Tret, are you listening this??

A PHD holder in Ismailism tell this then there is some thing in her which is not right therefore she really needs to go, don't you think so?

Shams, thanks to come forward and tell the truth, which I continuously telling for a long time; that she doesn't deserve in this site with her trash talk because her aim is not to come in this website to learn something new but her reason is different what Tret and other readers can not understand it even my warnings.

[agakhani]

Sheri,

Attacking the person individually is a sign of defeat and lack of answers to reasonable questions.

Well, I if I ever have taken defeat in past then I would not here in this forum almost 6 years.
Ask me any legitimate question and with grace of Almighty I will try to give you answer for that, but as long as ZZNoor's concern yes she comes in this forum for propaganda against Ismailism and against imams not for leraning any thing new.
We, (Admin, Shams and myself) warned her many time to stop to spread wrong interpretation and information but she never learned a lesson therefore she deserve insults, " there is a idioms in Gujarati 'JENE LAAJ SHARAM MUKHI ENE DUNIA MUKI"
The person who left their self respect, they left all world, this idiom exactly fit to her.

BTW:- One question arising in my mind; ARE NOT YOU TRET!!?
cuz your writing looks similar to him!! more than 50% my guesses always comes true!!!

[agakhani]

These statements were used to equate Ali to Vishnu, to increase Hindu conversion success. The Pirs did a fantastic job in using Hindu beliefs to convince people to accept Ismailism. I

Chalo ek aour ginan haters ka dakhila hua!! one more ginan hater is joining forum, if he really not Tret.

Sheri name is gals name in USA.

So assume that you are a gal, which I doubt though.

Only think I can say about your above comments , you needs to read ginans deeply, not all ginans talk about Vishnu or has any Hindu elements.

[zznoor]

Sheri name is gals name in USA.

It could be Zznoor !!!

[tret]

Sheri,

Attacking the person individually is a sign of defeat and lack of answers to reasonable questions.

Well, I if I ever have taken defeat in past then I would not here in this forum almost 6 years.
Ask me any legitimate question and with grace of Almighty I will try to give you answer for that, but as long as ZZNoor's concern yes she comes in this forum for propaganda against Ismailism and against imams not for leraning any thing new.
We, (Admin, Shams and myself) warned her many time to stop to spread wrong interpretation and information but she never learned a lesson therefore she deserve insults, " there is a idioms in Gujarati 'JENE LAAJ SHARAM MUKHI ENE DUNIA MUKI"
The person who left their self respect, they left all world, this idiom exactly fit to her.

BTW:- One question arising in my mind; ARE NOT YOU TRET!!?
cuz your writing looks similar to him!! more than 50% my guesses always comes true!!!

As I said, what you believe is only personal to you. Keep it to yourself as a treasure and don't make it look like a nasty thing to others, for others may not understand the value of it.

If you reveal it to others, then you don't have it! has been my message hinting everyone around here. Now good luck dealing with another zznoor!!

You guys inviting these people to come and insult our great tariqa!!

Assumption based on your preference is dangerous my dear friend! For one, I would never never ever say anything against Maula Ali to even be considered as an insult! You have your opinion, and you'r welcome to it!

[agakhani]

Since, you have raised and started concern about my opinions and comments then let me tell you too I, also do not believe in your opinions, comments and any interpretations or meanings and how can I? or any one else in this forum trust that??; when you overrides the farmans of our beloved MHI!!?? and gives wrong meaning. Need example?

For example:-
1, Yes, I double checked that farmans in which Mowlana Sultan Mohammed Shah has used the word 'IMAMAT' not Imam.

2, Your interpretation on 10 incarnation totally wrong:-

When Ismaili four imams already confessed about reincarnation and almost dozen pirs has also wrote about reincarnation in their ginans and then you the only one I found so far that who do not believe in it and gives wrong interpretation and try to override Imams and pirs beliefs and try to prove them wrong!! Astagafirullah.

By the way:- Aren't you sheri? if not then I addressed her not you! that means you are really a Sheri, however it doesn't matter to me any way.

[sheri]

I like your sense of humor.

Sheri name is gals name in USA.

It could be Zznoor !!!

[agakhani]

It could be Zznoor !!!

Absolutely not you are not Sheri because you are my ---e, my little piglet you con't be a Sheri.

[sheri]

more than 50% my guesses always comes true!!!

Your guesses are as good as a coin toss - a 50% success rate is a really bad success rate. It is not helpful that you get personal. How is a person's gender applicable to the discussion. You can easily see when my account was created to figure out these mundane things that you keep attacking people with.

It would have been better to answer the questions that I have raised rather than going about it in tangents and making it a personal attack session.

[zznoor]

I like your sense of humor.

JAK brother
When you are dealing with brother like Agakhini you have to have thick skin.
I know I am in hostile territory. I will survive.

[zznoor]

It could be Zznoor !!!

Absolutely not you are not Sheri because you are my ---e, my little piglet you con't be a Sheri.