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Do you have the translation for the following ginan?
Jaake paachm dise me khand Eraaq maanhe
http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/3684
Please share if you have.
Jaake paachm dise me khand Eraaq maanhe
waez number 632 (Missionary Abualy).
From the waez number 632 (Missionary Abualy).
Please note the translation of this ginan is not done by me, it is done by sevenlights one of the member of ismailinet forum.
Eji Jaake paachham dise ne khanddh eraak maanhe
setar dip minjaar ho ji;
ghar sar vadhaayun tiyaan bahu range hoe se,
ne raaj kare chhe dhanni maaro ... ho ji...
naasare naasare tun daint kaalingaa,
paachham thi dhanni aave ho ji;
khonn navaannu taaro khuddie tale jaae se,
na jaannu sehen taaro sie mukhe jaaese;
tab tuje konn chhoddaave ho ji 1
Naasare: Run away
Khonn: One division of an army, normally 10,000 or 32,000 soldiers
Khuddie tale: under horses’ feet
Daint: The Lord’s enemy
Daannav: The Lord’s enemy (but more sly)
Surjaa: Daint’s wife
Kamlaa: Daint’s son
Ajiaa & Vijiaa: Daint’s daughters
Pir Shams says in the ginaan that when Our Lord will come from the west (west of India), from Iraq, the houses of momins will be blessed. Our Lord will rule.
Pir says: I do not know where the army of Daint will disappear, I do not know who will give you (Daint) freedom.
Kamal means lotus. The lotus grows in muddy water. The lotus is beautiful and scented. The lotus (Kamlaa) is the momin who lives in the country where there is no religion.
Ajiaa means the one who cannot be defeated. This is the Jamat’s strength. No one can conquer the Jamat.
Vijiaa means victorious or successful. This is the Jamat’s prayers. Prayers will give the Jamat success.
Surjaa means an alert mind; a woman who is clever and alert. This is the Jamat. The wife is normally weaker than the husband and similarly, Satpanth jamat will live in Daint country and will be much smaller in number than the forces of Daint.
Satpanth jamat has been in China for over 1,100 years.
The Daint will have a regular army of 6.6m soldiers.
Daint will be science based.
Pir has said that Daint will make “goor” out of tar (saccharin is made out of residue today), and will make ghee out of water (margarine is vegetable ghee today) and that the paper will talk like a parrot (newspapers and TV news)
Eji Paachham disene tanbal vaajase,
vaaje te gor nishaan ho ji;
trann trann bhavanme Shaah maaro haank dilaave,
ne seje kilaave Sultaan ho ji. - naasare 2
Tambal vaajashe: announcement will be made
Gor nishaan: dark before the war, it will be tense
Trann bhavan: jamin, aasmaan and paataal – everyone will receive the news
Haank: declaration
Sultaan: King (Islamic term) – Imam will be declared King of the Islam
Communism will expand and religion will decline.
12 kos = 25 miles (1 kos is 2 miles). This means that there will be one momin every 25 miles – divaa jalegaa – one light every 25 miles.
Another ginaan: thar thar moman bhaai koi koi rahese, ati jaago viraa bhaai, ati jaago – means that mind will not be stable (with stable imaan), very few momins will have true faith. The stability of their faith will be questioned by the events.
There will be many small wars. The Muslims and the communists (China) will get together. The Christians will be defeated. Then, about three quarters of the world will be under the communist influence.
The communists (China) will think that they do not now require the Muslims. This is when the Muslims will look for a leader. Imam of the time will become the King of Muslims (Sultan)
Then Asvaari will take place. We are probably looking forward just over one hundred years from now.
Eji Jaake chanchal chalatra pavan rath ghoddaa,
ne haathiddun Shaah sanngaare ho ji;
chhatris aayudh (hathiyaar) lai nar naklanki chaddshe,
ne chaud bhavan maan jejekaar ho ji - naasare 3
Chanchal chalatra: very astute, very clever. This refers to Imam’s work
Pavan rath: planes, the planes will be very large and able to carry large numbers of people
Chhatris aayudh: 36 types of weapons in the Lord’s army
Chaud bhavan: 14 bhavan – that is seven heavens and seven earths – all beings from these places will come to help and applaud
During the battle of Badr (there were 313 momins) and The Lord sent 3,000 angels to help.
Names of leaders of the angels who will come to assist are in the Granth Anant Akhaaddo.
Eji Jaake nauv naath ne sidh choraasi,
ne jogaddiyun kare jejekaar ho ji;
Ajiyaa ne Vajiyaa devi chamar ddharaave,
ne Kamlaa kunvar sir chhatra dharese ho ji - naasare 4
Nauv naath and sidh choraasi: these are the good people who believe in God. Sidh means one with karaamat, that is someone like a sufi or a guru or kutub or a kalandar
Ajiyaa & Vajiyaa will fan the Lord – chamar means to fan the head of the leader
Joganni: small Jamats in the world who worship and pray – will applaud on the day
Kamlaa kunvar sir chhatra: momins will be in the front and momins will rule
Eji Jaake singaddie shank sabd ghannun vaaje,
ne nauve khandde paddere bhangaann ho ji;
lakh jojan Shaah moro din panth chaale,
ne esaa karese piyaannaa ho ji - naasare 5
Singaddie shankh: trumpet – announcement of the King (Radio, TV, News)
Sabd ghannu vaaje: words of the Imam of the time will be heard
Nauv khandd: nine continents
Paddere bhangaann: will read news, or will hear the news of the Imam
Lakh jojan: one jojan is 6 miles. So lakh jojan means 600,000 miles
Shaah moro din panth chaale: Imam will cover 600,000 miles in one day. The speeds of 25,000 miles per hour will be a norm at that time.
Piyaannaa: happy arrangements
Eji Haare raanni tregannaa kott maare ati rang dise;
ne maae devtaa kare chhe kamaai ho ji;
baarei megh maaro paanni bhare chhe,
ne surje tape rasoi ho ji - naasare 6
Conversation between Daint and the Queen.
Tregannaa kott: three quarters – 75% of the world sing my name
Baarei megh: rains when I wish
Surje tape rasoi: cook with help of the sun
Eji Haare raajaa trann bhavan jivanjo daataar,
tin sun tun vaad chalaave ho ji;
chaud bhavan jivann ko saami,
teni karo sevaa to kuchh paamo ho ji - naasare 7
Queen replying to Daint.
Trann bhavan: jamin, aasmaan and paataal
Vaad chalaave: arguing – why are you arguing with the Lord. You know that he will succeed. Serve the Lord and attain your salvation.
Eji Haare raanni muvaa jivaaddun ne pirtaa pujaavun,
ne khaann khavaddaavun kotth ghoddaa ho ji,
moro te lashkar anant karoddi,
tere Shaah jidhaa lashkar thoddaa ho ji - naasare 8
Daint relies: I wake the dead, make them worship (pirtaa pujaavun)
I give food (and fuel) to the metal machines
My army is large, your Lord has a small force.
Eji Haare raajaa muaa jivraaie ne pirtaa pujaaie,
pann teraa lashkar kaachaa ho ji;
najare chaddiyo Shaah moro bhasham karese,
ne ubhaa te rehese sati saachaa ho ji - naasare 9
The Queen replies: you may wake the dead and make them worship, but your army is not very strong.
Pir Sadardin has composed the ginaan: Saami naa daal jyaare chaalshe, tyaare sat dharam ne vehvaar;
Sat joog will come again where the momins will receive all there is from the Lord.
China will become very powerful and will conquer India. In the communist world, everything will be cheap and on Imam’s side there will be few people and everything will be expensive.
Natural disasters will take place. Many of the Daint’s forces will die due to these natural disasters. Up to 75% of duniyaa will become barbaad.
Eji Haare raanni khaao piyo ne dhan kharacho hamaaro,
ne shaaho shaaho kari pukaaro ho ji;
esaa hay koi chinnab nagari maanhe,
je Surjaade raanni kun samjaave ho ji - naasare 10
Daint says: you live with me, eat my food and spend my money. Yet you say: Shaah, Shaah;
Is there anyone in China who can put some sense in Queen Surjaa
In 1921, Soviet Russia started communism. There were people like Marx and Lenin. Lenin became the communist President. Lenin said that they will remove religion within 20 years. Then the war came. After the war, they continued with the program. In 1960, they commissioned a report to see how far they were with the program. The report was published in London in 1969 and the report said that religion in Russia had actually increased.
Russia is known as Daannav by our Pirs and China is known as Daint.
Eji Haare raajaa jugaa jug hun tun ne ketij aavi,
tun kudd kyaare kaalingaa ho ji;
trann trann jug maaro kahiyo nav maaniyo,
chothe te saaheb lekhaa leshe ho ji - naasare 11
Queen replies: I have been warning you over the last three joog. You have not listened. Now in this fourth joog, my Lord will take account of your deeds.
Pirs have mentioned ratan joog which is similar to sat joog after the asvaari. Imam will make the declaration of ratan joog.
Eji Haare raanni evire vaat taaraa dev paase bhanniye,
saambhlo Surjaade raanni ho ji;
amaari nagari maanhe vaas vase chhe,
ne vaat karo aap jaanni ho ji - naasare 12
Daint says: Talk to your Lord about these things. While you are here, talk good things about me, do not talk about your Lord.
Eji Chaddere daint ne padde dal manddhann,
chinnab nagri minjaar hoji;
Ishvar, Bhirmaa tiyaan karere utaaraa,
ne aj kal dasme avtaar ho ji - naasare 13
Padde dal manddhann: fight will start
China will be extinguished and the Lord together with Brahmaa (Pir) will go to China.
Eji Haare raajaa til til kaa Shaah moro lekhaa lese,
teni Sat Gur pure chhe saankh ho ji;
nar ne pirsaade Pir Shams boliyaa,
raaj rakhisarne Shaah dese ho ji - naasare 14
Satgur pure chhe saankh: Pir is a witness to all that is said above in the ginaan.
Canada: There is a reason why Ismailis have come to Canada. Muslims, including Ismailis, will suffer in Pakistan and India. Ismailis are very well organised. We in the West, will have to give a lot of our time and knowledge to the East. We have to sacrifice in order to help our Ismailis. The wealthy in the west should consider this as a Baraka to assist the needy in the East. The majority of the Ismailis (90%) are in the East and are many are living in poverty. This is what our Imam wants from us – to assist and share.
Canada will be the seat of Ismailis. Our religion will thrive in Canada. In the future, due to political or other reasons, Imam may start Namaaz instead of Dua. But the Canadian Jamat has to remain strong in bandagi. Canadian Jamat will then bring the religion back to the East.
Please note the translation of this ginan is not done by me, it is done by sevenlights one of the member of ismailinet forum.
Eji Jaake paachham dise ne khanddh eraak maanhe
setar dip minjaar ho ji;
ghar sar vadhaayun tiyaan bahu range hoe se,
ne raaj kare chhe dhanni maaro ... ho ji...
naasare naasare tun daint kaalingaa,
paachham thi dhanni aave ho ji;
khonn navaannu taaro khuddie tale jaae se,
na jaannu sehen taaro sie mukhe jaaese;
tab tuje konn chhoddaave ho ji 1
Naasare: Run away
Khonn: One division of an army, normally 10,000 or 32,000 soldiers
Khuddie tale: under horses’ feet
Daint: The Lord’s enemy
Daannav: The Lord’s enemy (but more sly)
Surjaa: Daint’s wife
Kamlaa: Daint’s son
Ajiaa & Vijiaa: Daint’s daughters
Pir Shams says in the ginaan that when Our Lord will come from the west (west of India), from Iraq, the houses of momins will be blessed. Our Lord will rule.
Pir says: I do not know where the army of Daint will disappear, I do not know who will give you (Daint) freedom.
Kamal means lotus. The lotus grows in muddy water. The lotus is beautiful and scented. The lotus (Kamlaa) is the momin who lives in the country where there is no religion.
Ajiaa means the one who cannot be defeated. This is the Jamat’s strength. No one can conquer the Jamat.
Vijiaa means victorious or successful. This is the Jamat’s prayers. Prayers will give the Jamat success.
Surjaa means an alert mind; a woman who is clever and alert. This is the Jamat. The wife is normally weaker than the husband and similarly, Satpanth jamat will live in Daint country and will be much smaller in number than the forces of Daint.
Satpanth jamat has been in China for over 1,100 years.
The Daint will have a regular army of 6.6m soldiers.
Daint will be science based.
Pir has said that Daint will make “goor” out of tar (saccharin is made out of residue today), and will make ghee out of water (margarine is vegetable ghee today) and that the paper will talk like a parrot (newspapers and TV news)
Eji Paachham disene tanbal vaajase,
vaaje te gor nishaan ho ji;
trann trann bhavanme Shaah maaro haank dilaave,
ne seje kilaave Sultaan ho ji. - naasare 2
Tambal vaajashe: announcement will be made
Gor nishaan: dark before the war, it will be tense
Trann bhavan: jamin, aasmaan and paataal – everyone will receive the news
Haank: declaration
Sultaan: King (Islamic term) – Imam will be declared King of the Islam
Communism will expand and religion will decline.
12 kos = 25 miles (1 kos is 2 miles). This means that there will be one momin every 25 miles – divaa jalegaa – one light every 25 miles.
Another ginaan: thar thar moman bhaai koi koi rahese, ati jaago viraa bhaai, ati jaago – means that mind will not be stable (with stable imaan), very few momins will have true faith. The stability of their faith will be questioned by the events.
There will be many small wars. The Muslims and the communists (China) will get together. The Christians will be defeated. Then, about three quarters of the world will be under the communist influence.
The communists (China) will think that they do not now require the Muslims. This is when the Muslims will look for a leader. Imam of the time will become the King of Muslims (Sultan)
Then Asvaari will take place. We are probably looking forward just over one hundred years from now.
Eji Jaake chanchal chalatra pavan rath ghoddaa,
ne haathiddun Shaah sanngaare ho ji;
chhatris aayudh (hathiyaar) lai nar naklanki chaddshe,
ne chaud bhavan maan jejekaar ho ji - naasare 3
Chanchal chalatra: very astute, very clever. This refers to Imam’s work
Pavan rath: planes, the planes will be very large and able to carry large numbers of people
Chhatris aayudh: 36 types of weapons in the Lord’s army
Chaud bhavan: 14 bhavan – that is seven heavens and seven earths – all beings from these places will come to help and applaud
During the battle of Badr (there were 313 momins) and The Lord sent 3,000 angels to help.
Names of leaders of the angels who will come to assist are in the Granth Anant Akhaaddo.
Eji Jaake nauv naath ne sidh choraasi,
ne jogaddiyun kare jejekaar ho ji;
Ajiyaa ne Vajiyaa devi chamar ddharaave,
ne Kamlaa kunvar sir chhatra dharese ho ji - naasare 4
Nauv naath and sidh choraasi: these are the good people who believe in God. Sidh means one with karaamat, that is someone like a sufi or a guru or kutub or a kalandar
Ajiyaa & Vajiyaa will fan the Lord – chamar means to fan the head of the leader
Joganni: small Jamats in the world who worship and pray – will applaud on the day
Kamlaa kunvar sir chhatra: momins will be in the front and momins will rule
Eji Jaake singaddie shank sabd ghannun vaaje,
ne nauve khandde paddere bhangaann ho ji;
lakh jojan Shaah moro din panth chaale,
ne esaa karese piyaannaa ho ji - naasare 5
Singaddie shankh: trumpet – announcement of the King (Radio, TV, News)
Sabd ghannu vaaje: words of the Imam of the time will be heard
Nauv khandd: nine continents
Paddere bhangaann: will read news, or will hear the news of the Imam
Lakh jojan: one jojan is 6 miles. So lakh jojan means 600,000 miles
Shaah moro din panth chaale: Imam will cover 600,000 miles in one day. The speeds of 25,000 miles per hour will be a norm at that time.
Piyaannaa: happy arrangements
Eji Haare raanni tregannaa kott maare ati rang dise;
ne maae devtaa kare chhe kamaai ho ji;
baarei megh maaro paanni bhare chhe,
ne surje tape rasoi ho ji - naasare 6
Conversation between Daint and the Queen.
Tregannaa kott: three quarters – 75% of the world sing my name
Baarei megh: rains when I wish
Surje tape rasoi: cook with help of the sun
Eji Haare raajaa trann bhavan jivanjo daataar,
tin sun tun vaad chalaave ho ji;
chaud bhavan jivann ko saami,
teni karo sevaa to kuchh paamo ho ji - naasare 7
Queen replying to Daint.
Trann bhavan: jamin, aasmaan and paataal
Vaad chalaave: arguing – why are you arguing with the Lord. You know that he will succeed. Serve the Lord and attain your salvation.
Eji Haare raanni muvaa jivaaddun ne pirtaa pujaavun,
ne khaann khavaddaavun kotth ghoddaa ho ji,
moro te lashkar anant karoddi,
tere Shaah jidhaa lashkar thoddaa ho ji - naasare 8
Daint relies: I wake the dead, make them worship (pirtaa pujaavun)
I give food (and fuel) to the metal machines
My army is large, your Lord has a small force.
Eji Haare raajaa muaa jivraaie ne pirtaa pujaaie,
pann teraa lashkar kaachaa ho ji;
najare chaddiyo Shaah moro bhasham karese,
ne ubhaa te rehese sati saachaa ho ji - naasare 9
The Queen replies: you may wake the dead and make them worship, but your army is not very strong.
Pir Sadardin has composed the ginaan: Saami naa daal jyaare chaalshe, tyaare sat dharam ne vehvaar;
Sat joog will come again where the momins will receive all there is from the Lord.
China will become very powerful and will conquer India. In the communist world, everything will be cheap and on Imam’s side there will be few people and everything will be expensive.
Natural disasters will take place. Many of the Daint’s forces will die due to these natural disasters. Up to 75% of duniyaa will become barbaad.
Eji Haare raanni khaao piyo ne dhan kharacho hamaaro,
ne shaaho shaaho kari pukaaro ho ji;
esaa hay koi chinnab nagari maanhe,
je Surjaade raanni kun samjaave ho ji - naasare 10
Daint says: you live with me, eat my food and spend my money. Yet you say: Shaah, Shaah;
Is there anyone in China who can put some sense in Queen Surjaa
In 1921, Soviet Russia started communism. There were people like Marx and Lenin. Lenin became the communist President. Lenin said that they will remove religion within 20 years. Then the war came. After the war, they continued with the program. In 1960, they commissioned a report to see how far they were with the program. The report was published in London in 1969 and the report said that religion in Russia had actually increased.
Russia is known as Daannav by our Pirs and China is known as Daint.
Eji Haare raajaa jugaa jug hun tun ne ketij aavi,
tun kudd kyaare kaalingaa ho ji;
trann trann jug maaro kahiyo nav maaniyo,
chothe te saaheb lekhaa leshe ho ji - naasare 11
Queen replies: I have been warning you over the last three joog. You have not listened. Now in this fourth joog, my Lord will take account of your deeds.
Pirs have mentioned ratan joog which is similar to sat joog after the asvaari. Imam will make the declaration of ratan joog.
Eji Haare raanni evire vaat taaraa dev paase bhanniye,
saambhlo Surjaade raanni ho ji;
amaari nagari maanhe vaas vase chhe,
ne vaat karo aap jaanni ho ji - naasare 12
Daint says: Talk to your Lord about these things. While you are here, talk good things about me, do not talk about your Lord.
Eji Chaddere daint ne padde dal manddhann,
chinnab nagri minjaar hoji;
Ishvar, Bhirmaa tiyaan karere utaaraa,
ne aj kal dasme avtaar ho ji - naasare 13
Padde dal manddhann: fight will start
China will be extinguished and the Lord together with Brahmaa (Pir) will go to China.
Eji Haare raajaa til til kaa Shaah moro lekhaa lese,
teni Sat Gur pure chhe saankh ho ji;
nar ne pirsaade Pir Shams boliyaa,
raaj rakhisarne Shaah dese ho ji - naasare 14
Satgur pure chhe saankh: Pir is a witness to all that is said above in the ginaan.
Canada: There is a reason why Ismailis have come to Canada. Muslims, including Ismailis, will suffer in Pakistan and India. Ismailis are very well organised. We in the West, will have to give a lot of our time and knowledge to the East. We have to sacrifice in order to help our Ismailis. The wealthy in the west should consider this as a Baraka to assist the needy in the East. The majority of the Ismailis (90%) are in the East and are many are living in poverty. This is what our Imam wants from us – to assist and share.
Canada will be the seat of Ismailis. Our religion will thrive in Canada. In the future, due to political or other reasons, Imam may start Namaaz instead of Dua. But the Canadian Jamat has to remain strong in bandagi. Canadian Jamat will then bring the religion back to the East.
Last edited by atharvedi on Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Congratulation brother Atharvedi"
Well done, well explained and translated, good job indeed, now can you tell me have you really read 'ATHARVED"??!! justi kidding bro
I always love listen "DAINT KALINGA" waez of RAI ABU ALI' I don'tremember now how many time I already listened it, but I am still hungry to listen it again and again. However I was missing the translation of this very important waez for a long time but thanks again brother you done it today now I can save this translation for my future use, THIS TRANSLATION IS LIKE READY REFERENCE FOR MANY READERS who have interest in the subject of Zahurat.
Let me give you more details and facts about the 'ZAHURAT" this will save you and other readers lots of times in reading, listening waez and searching related literature, this is an essence for you which I took from many waezs, ginans and Ismaili granths regarding Zahurat.
1, The day will be Thursady ( called as 'THAWAR RAT' in our ginans.)
2, The time will be evening ( actually after 4.00 p.m.)
3, Nakshatra: Rohini
4, Month as per Hindu calender : Chaitra
5, Year will be 2115, As per one waez of Rai Abu Ali.
6, The name of Imam : Imam Kasam Shah, this name is given in
"ANANAT AKHADO"
7, Country involve in War: almost every country during that time but main
countries will be China, India, Pakistan, Iraq, Iran.
Well done, well explained and translated, good job indeed, now can you tell me have you really read 'ATHARVED"??!! justi kidding bro
I always love listen "DAINT KALINGA" waez of RAI ABU ALI' I don'tremember now how many time I already listened it, but I am still hungry to listen it again and again. However I was missing the translation of this very important waez for a long time but thanks again brother you done it today now I can save this translation for my future use, THIS TRANSLATION IS LIKE READY REFERENCE FOR MANY READERS who have interest in the subject of Zahurat.
Let me give you more details and facts about the 'ZAHURAT" this will save you and other readers lots of times in reading, listening waez and searching related literature, this is an essence for you which I took from many waezs, ginans and Ismaili granths regarding Zahurat.
1, The day will be Thursady ( called as 'THAWAR RAT' in our ginans.)
2, The time will be evening ( actually after 4.00 p.m.)
3, Nakshatra: Rohini
4, Month as per Hindu calender : Chaitra
5, Year will be 2115, As per one waez of Rai Abu Ali.
6, The name of Imam : Imam Kasam Shah, this name is given in
"ANANAT AKHADO"
7, Country involve in War: almost every country during that time but main
countries will be China, India, Pakistan, Iraq, Iran.
Very similar to the Druze description of that time
Thank you for the wonderful translation.
The description is very similar (almost identical) to the Druze description of the 'end of time' or 'Al Qiyama' as we call it
The description is very similar (almost identical) to the Druze description of the 'end of time' or 'Al Qiyama' as we call it
Ya Ali Madad:
Is the Ginan or sayings,
Is it predicting the 'Zahurat 'or the Doomsday of the earth?
or it is giving mixed signals for the both?
3 decades back China was 0% capitalist and 100% communist country now the parameters are showing it as 70% capitalist and 30% communist and 30 years down the line the prediction is not difficult.
40 years back there were 17 communist countries now only one is left as an absolute communist country that is North Korea.
All messages of of appointed Pir's are NOT totally divine message.
They do have content of divinity in it on ginans on 'Inspiration of Faith'.
Their primary objective n messages is to connect the people to the divinity.
Is this Ginan in particular official printed circulation or recited now?
Has any Imam given it's opinion on this particular Ginan.
Lot of info was sought by leaders on Ginans from Imam SMS.
Is this Ginan removed n confined to store house or still a syllabus for
Ismailis today?
Who is the absolute authority on the messages of Ginans
Is it the Imam of the Time or any Alwaez ?
I wish to know answers to these question before going into the each para of the Ginan.
Even parts of 'Waj e Din' by Nasir Khusraw has part of astrology or
occult science IT IS removed by then Ismaili Association of Pakistan as
unfit/banned for reading.
I feel any religious material with Occult Science is/may be not desired by Imam to be part n parcel of our traditions as on today.
THE OWNER DECIDES NOT THE SERVANT.
MORE SO IF IT IS FOR DEATH FOR THE WHOLE OF HUMANITY.
Is the Ginan or sayings,
Is it predicting the 'Zahurat 'or the Doomsday of the earth?
or it is giving mixed signals for the both?
3 decades back China was 0% capitalist and 100% communist country now the parameters are showing it as 70% capitalist and 30% communist and 30 years down the line the prediction is not difficult.
40 years back there were 17 communist countries now only one is left as an absolute communist country that is North Korea.
All messages of of appointed Pir's are NOT totally divine message.
They do have content of divinity in it on ginans on 'Inspiration of Faith'.
Their primary objective n messages is to connect the people to the divinity.
Is this Ginan in particular official printed circulation or recited now?
Has any Imam given it's opinion on this particular Ginan.
Lot of info was sought by leaders on Ginans from Imam SMS.
Is this Ginan removed n confined to store house or still a syllabus for
Ismailis today?
Who is the absolute authority on the messages of Ginans
Is it the Imam of the Time or any Alwaez ?
I wish to know answers to these question before going into the each para of the Ginan.
Even parts of 'Waj e Din' by Nasir Khusraw has part of astrology or
occult science IT IS removed by then Ismaili Association of Pakistan as
unfit/banned for reading.
I feel any religious material with Occult Science is/may be not desired by Imam to be part n parcel of our traditions as on today.
THE OWNER DECIDES NOT THE SERVANT.
MORE SO IF IT IS FOR DEATH FOR THE WHOLE OF HUMANITY.
When someone always doubt the Ginans he would be cutting himself from the Wisdom they contain. That is the only reason one can not have access to the vast knowledge contained therein.
In the same way, people who doubt Farmans, also cut-themselves from the knowledge contained therein. When they do that, they feel there is nothing of value to be found there. That is their Divine punishment which they inflict upon themselves. SMS call it "Bekhabari no gurang".
When someone does not understand the value of Noor e Imamat or Noor e Piratan, no matter how many Farmans or Ginans he will read, he will always interpret wrong because intellect that cuts itself from its Origin is left wondering like a boat without a captain...
In the same way, people who doubt Farmans, also cut-themselves from the knowledge contained therein. When they do that, they feel there is nothing of value to be found there. That is their Divine punishment which they inflict upon themselves. SMS call it "Bekhabari no gurang".
When someone does not understand the value of Noor e Imamat or Noor e Piratan, no matter how many Farmans or Ginans he will read, he will always interpret wrong because intellect that cuts itself from its Origin is left wondering like a boat without a captain...
J"PIR NA BOLYA JUTHADA NA HOY"
"PIR BOLE SOHI HOYE"
"TAME SHESH (doubt) MA KARJO LAGAR"
If not 100 % communists countries right now, then there will be 100% communist contries pretty soon, Even USA and other counties will be communists. Just forget about ginans and predicfion of our pirs if you not belive in our ginans, however your belife in our pirs and ginans is not hidden any more but let me repeat it here that you (nuseri) do not believe in ginans and in piratan concept at all, sorry I am not admin who tells alwayas" golgol" I never affraid to tell the truth, those truths about which are hidden in everybodies eyes no matter who it is? what it is? no matter about it iz abput Quran, hadith or puran, many peoples liked it many did not, but let me repeat about your case you are not belive in ginans ans piratan concep at all! There is no doubt at that,
One more advise to you read what other non Muslim columnists are saying about China and communism please read their comments if you not believe our pirs predicti
"PIR BOLE SOHI HOYE"
"TAME SHESH (doubt) MA KARJO LAGAR"
If not 100 % communists countries right now, then there will be 100% communist contries pretty soon, Even USA and other counties will be communists. Just forget about ginans and predicfion of our pirs if you not belive in our ginans, however your belife in our pirs and ginans is not hidden any more but let me repeat it here that you (nuseri) do not believe in ginans and in piratan concept at all, sorry I am not admin who tells alwayas" golgol" I never affraid to tell the truth, those truths about which are hidden in everybodies eyes no matter who it is? what it is? no matter about it iz abput Quran, hadith or puran, many peoples liked it many did not, but let me repeat about your case you are not belive in ginans ans piratan concep at all! There is no doubt at that,
One more advise to you read what other non Muslim columnists are saying about China and communism please read their comments if you not believe our pirs predicti
Pir did not say communism is the Dait Kalingo. Pir said Dait Kalingo will come from China (this also is an interpretation of words in ginans such as Chenab Nagri and Chin-ma-Chin.
So even if communism is not there, it does not have any impact on the ginans and the prediction that the Imam will declare Himself to the world and will be known in all His glory by all..
So even if communism is not there, it does not have any impact on the ginans and the prediction that the Imam will declare Himself to the world and will be known in all His glory by all..
Ya Ali Madad:
Reading the translation and it's meaning.The person has done it incorrectly
with his own drawn assumptions based on his/her level of understanding.
I have the ability to try it but would refrain from it as this Ginan is meant to be read in the first place.
If I have observed the Khojas of today the numerical size and their inspiration levels also understanding the quantum and content of Ginans.
Then also how many sections dropped out from it since last 700 years.
I have holistically with gut and no fear have written on the shortcomings
as assumed by me in both the Pirantan as well as many unwarranted Ginans n info on it with reasoning's and data supporting my comments.
One cannot draw a a shallow conclusion of that person hating or disliking it.
Opinions can differ then one has reply if he/she has the ability to do.
I may be one against many.
Hatred n disliking can come from one's inability to match up and out of jealousy.
Till I came on the forum none knew what could be Baatin of XYZ and our Faith which goes beyond Haqiqat and physical Zahiri readings (mostly deep but shallow understanding).
Reading the translation and it's meaning.The person has done it incorrectly
with his own drawn assumptions based on his/her level of understanding.
I have the ability to try it but would refrain from it as this Ginan is meant to be read in the first place.
If I have observed the Khojas of today the numerical size and their inspiration levels also understanding the quantum and content of Ginans.
Then also how many sections dropped out from it since last 700 years.
I have holistically with gut and no fear have written on the shortcomings
as assumed by me in both the Pirantan as well as many unwarranted Ginans n info on it with reasoning's and data supporting my comments.
One cannot draw a a shallow conclusion of that person hating or disliking it.
Opinions can differ then one has reply if he/she has the ability to do.
I may be one against many.
Hatred n disliking can come from one's inability to match up and out of jealousy.
Till I came on the forum none knew what could be Baatin of XYZ and our Faith which goes beyond Haqiqat and physical Zahiri readings (mostly deep but shallow understanding).
To brother Nuseri,
The above is one of the interpretation of many. You are most welcome to share your interpretation we might learn something from it.
As Mowla says in his Farman that our Farmans and each and every line of ginan has thousand meanings.
It is all down to what you believe.... You are answerable for your own action accordingly.
Here's an extract from one of the Farman this may clear your perception towards Shah-Pir and their message.
"There is no one greater than Myself. If you think of God, then it is Myself. If you think of Pir, then too it is Me. If you think about Imam, then too it is Me. And your beloved Master is also Me. There is no one except Myself..." (Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah Vadi Jamatkhana, March 16, 1902)
Unless you do not believe in Farmans of any previous Imams then it is like we are barking against the wrong tree. If you believe that the Imam has the Devine authority to make such a Farman then you have to believe in His message too whether it is from Shah or Pir. In fact every Imam has told us to follow the Farman of the previous Imam. By not believing in the Farmans of any previous Imams, this generally means we are doubting in the genealogy of our Shah-Pir and their authenticity. In this case there is no point arguing...
"If you have half hearted faith or have doubts about me then your Ibadat will not give you any benefit.
In that case it is better you do not keep any faith at all."
(KIM Farman number 80, Kutchh Mundra (India) Date: Nov 21, 1903)
In another Farman Imam says such a believer should leave our faith....
Hope this may helps you to understand our faith better. May Mowla gives you hidayat and do not let you go astray from the straight path (siratal mustakim).
Ya Ali Madad
The above is one of the interpretation of many. You are most welcome to share your interpretation we might learn something from it.
As Mowla says in his Farman that our Farmans and each and every line of ginan has thousand meanings.
It is all down to what you believe.... You are answerable for your own action accordingly.
Here's an extract from one of the Farman this may clear your perception towards Shah-Pir and their message.
"There is no one greater than Myself. If you think of God, then it is Myself. If you think of Pir, then too it is Me. If you think about Imam, then too it is Me. And your beloved Master is also Me. There is no one except Myself..." (Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah Vadi Jamatkhana, March 16, 1902)
Unless you do not believe in Farmans of any previous Imams then it is like we are barking against the wrong tree. If you believe that the Imam has the Devine authority to make such a Farman then you have to believe in His message too whether it is from Shah or Pir. In fact every Imam has told us to follow the Farman of the previous Imam. By not believing in the Farmans of any previous Imams, this generally means we are doubting in the genealogy of our Shah-Pir and their authenticity. In this case there is no point arguing...
"If you have half hearted faith or have doubts about me then your Ibadat will not give you any benefit.
In that case it is better you do not keep any faith at all."
(KIM Farman number 80, Kutchh Mundra (India) Date: Nov 21, 1903)
In another Farman Imam says such a believer should leave our faith....
Hope this may helps you to understand our faith better. May Mowla gives you hidayat and do not let you go astray from the straight path (siratal mustakim).
Ya Ali Madad
To Artahvedi:Ya Ali madad
I have one question.You can reply in on word if you wish.
Is this Ginan in particular banned/unfit for reading n circulation for our Jamaat now?
YES OR NO ? again the same question YES OR NO ?
As in Ginans,the Imam of the time many a times is addressed as Shahpir.
Present Imam of the time is both Shahpir n Imam.
The Farmans mentioned was of followers knowing him as Shahpir n also as Imam.
Here it does 'NOT AT ALL' mean the APPOINTED Pir's blessed with Noorani Hidayat for inspiring people into faith n not not forecasting the dooms day.
In a court of any Royalty/Imams.
The poet who sang and praised made them happy and not the learned
who read about affairs of the nations n forecast n direct a date to him to
act upon.
The poets who sang the praises were gifted by gold coins etc then and person who said along with praising more than their brief were even ordered to the gallows if the royalties were annoyed.
Our's is a Sufi faith of Baatin and it expression of love in poetic or other form and not per se forecasting the Doomsday.
Which word is used for communist/communism.
what is forecasting methodology of naming the countries?
I am covering a IMPORTANT Farman of Imam SMS many would read my post in disbelief.
Any sharp observation or in difference does not dilute the Imaan of that person.
HUM NE TO HAMARI IMAAN KI PARIKSHA HAZARO SAAL PEHLE DEH CHUKE HAI
I have one question.You can reply in on word if you wish.
Is this Ginan in particular banned/unfit for reading n circulation for our Jamaat now?
YES OR NO ? again the same question YES OR NO ?
As in Ginans,the Imam of the time many a times is addressed as Shahpir.
Present Imam of the time is both Shahpir n Imam.
The Farmans mentioned was of followers knowing him as Shahpir n also as Imam.
Here it does 'NOT AT ALL' mean the APPOINTED Pir's blessed with Noorani Hidayat for inspiring people into faith n not not forecasting the dooms day.
In a court of any Royalty/Imams.
The poet who sang and praised made them happy and not the learned
who read about affairs of the nations n forecast n direct a date to him to
act upon.
The poets who sang the praises were gifted by gold coins etc then and person who said along with praising more than their brief were even ordered to the gallows if the royalties were annoyed.
Our's is a Sufi faith of Baatin and it expression of love in poetic or other form and not per se forecasting the Doomsday.
Which word is used for communist/communism.
what is forecasting methodology of naming the countries?
I am covering a IMPORTANT Farman of Imam SMS many would read my post in disbelief.
Any sharp observation or in difference does not dilute the Imaan of that person.
HUM NE TO HAMARI IMAAN KI PARIKSHA HAZARO SAAL PEHLE DEH CHUKE HAI
To Nuseri
As I said, the subject of Ginans should be left to be discussed between people who understand them and respect them. People who have nothing of substance to contribute should not feel obliged to write here.
There is no point writing 20 lines to say nothing in essence but repeating anti-Pir blaberings. Our Imam has never banned any ginans even not Man Har Granth and you repeating propaganda will not make the Imam ban them.
If you have any interpretation for any verse of the Ginan mentioned as title of this thread, please do say so. There is no point deviating the thread to other matters already discussed elsewhere. I have noticed that any thread is good for you to advance your own interpretation of what is the importance or rather the uselessness of Ginans, regardless of where you post, you always write the same thing all over the place.
There is title on each thread. This title shown the topic to be discussed. Read the title before posting. This is valid for all.
As I said, the subject of Ginans should be left to be discussed between people who understand them and respect them. People who have nothing of substance to contribute should not feel obliged to write here.
There is no point writing 20 lines to say nothing in essence but repeating anti-Pir blaberings. Our Imam has never banned any ginans even not Man Har Granth and you repeating propaganda will not make the Imam ban them.
If you have any interpretation for any verse of the Ginan mentioned as title of this thread, please do say so. There is no point deviating the thread to other matters already discussed elsewhere. I have noticed that any thread is good for you to advance your own interpretation of what is the importance or rather the uselessness of Ginans, regardless of where you post, you always write the same thing all over the place.
There is title on each thread. This title shown the topic to be discussed. Read the title before posting. This is valid for all.
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ismaili103
- Posts: 542
- Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:40 am
To brother Nuseri: Mowla Ali Madad
Q) Is this Ginan in particular banned/unfit for reading n circulation for our Jamaat now?
A) I am not aware of any Farman made by Shah Karim or any other I mam saying the above ginan is ban.
My guess is you have not read the above Farman properly or at least understood. As it is, to understand the Farman is very difficult anyway. Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah was also holding both the offices of Shah and Pir. If you read the Farman few times over and over you will get to know that the Farman is talking about, .....whatever you think the higher authority in your mind, that authority is Imam Himself. In short the most high the supreme being.
Q) The Farmans mentioned was of followers knowing him as Shahpir n also as Imam.
Here it does 'NOT AT ALL' mean the APPOINTED Pir's blessed with Noorani Hidayat for inspiring people into faith n not not forecasting the dooms day.
A) Shah is Imam, Noor of Ali and Pir is Noor of Nabi Muhammad. we need to find out first who Pir is? Where does he/she comes from? What authority do they posses to deliver religious messages? Whether it be the stories from the past or the teachings of our batini aspects or it could be the future predictions.
Also we do not select or elect Shah and Pir ourselves this is all done by the Devine authority the Noor of Allah which is vested in the present Imam. We (Jamat) have not given the offices of Imamat and Piratan to Hazar Imam. If you do not know then you may have to dig a little deeper to find the answer to this.
Imam says in one of the Farman that the ginans are the essence of the holy Quran and it is given you in your own Indian language... Mind my words I am writing this from my memory so it won't be the exact wordings but this Farman is common and everyone knows if they have attended their religious classes (bait-al-illm).
The same thing is in Quran there are teachings of past, present, future. So if the future predictions appears in Quran then that is fine but it should not appear in ginans or Farmans of Shah-Pir in whose house it has been revealed 1400 years ago.
Q) Which word is used for communist/communism.
what is forecasting methodology of naming the countries?
A) I'm not a scholar nor do I posses any theologian degree so I do not know which word is used in the above ginan for communist/communism. As you must be aware that the original post is a translation of one of the waez of missionary Abualy Aziz. And the whole world knows that he is passed away quite some time now. I have no idea how to get in touch with him to ask the relevant question may be it is too late now
You said you are covering an important Farman please quote the wordings and also provide the source that may help.
"I am covering a IMPORTANT Farman of Imam SMS many would read my post in disbelief."
I think you should read more and more before you try and share your own interpretation. As Imam say if you read our religious books a lot you will understand a little.... Let's try to learn more on the topic before commenting.
Q) Is this Ginan in particular banned/unfit for reading n circulation for our Jamaat now?
A) I am not aware of any Farman made by Shah Karim or any other I mam saying the above ginan is ban.
My guess is you have not read the above Farman properly or at least understood. As it is, to understand the Farman is very difficult anyway. Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah was also holding both the offices of Shah and Pir. If you read the Farman few times over and over you will get to know that the Farman is talking about, .....whatever you think the higher authority in your mind, that authority is Imam Himself. In short the most high the supreme being.
Q) The Farmans mentioned was of followers knowing him as Shahpir n also as Imam.
Here it does 'NOT AT ALL' mean the APPOINTED Pir's blessed with Noorani Hidayat for inspiring people into faith n not not forecasting the dooms day.
A) Shah is Imam, Noor of Ali and Pir is Noor of Nabi Muhammad. we need to find out first who Pir is? Where does he/she comes from? What authority do they posses to deliver religious messages? Whether it be the stories from the past or the teachings of our batini aspects or it could be the future predictions.
Also we do not select or elect Shah and Pir ourselves this is all done by the Devine authority the Noor of Allah which is vested in the present Imam. We (Jamat) have not given the offices of Imamat and Piratan to Hazar Imam. If you do not know then you may have to dig a little deeper to find the answer to this.
Imam says in one of the Farman that the ginans are the essence of the holy Quran and it is given you in your own Indian language... Mind my words I am writing this from my memory so it won't be the exact wordings but this Farman is common and everyone knows if they have attended their religious classes (bait-al-illm).
The same thing is in Quran there are teachings of past, present, future. So if the future predictions appears in Quran then that is fine but it should not appear in ginans or Farmans of Shah-Pir in whose house it has been revealed 1400 years ago.
Q) Which word is used for communist/communism.
what is forecasting methodology of naming the countries?
A) I'm not a scholar nor do I posses any theologian degree so I do not know which word is used in the above ginan for communist/communism. As you must be aware that the original post is a translation of one of the waez of missionary Abualy Aziz. And the whole world knows that he is passed away quite some time now. I have no idea how to get in touch with him to ask the relevant question may be it is too late now
You said you are covering an important Farman please quote the wordings and also provide the source that may help.
"I am covering a IMPORTANT Farman of Imam SMS many would read my post in disbelief."
I think you should read more and more before you try and share your own interpretation. As Imam say if you read our religious books a lot you will understand a little.... Let's try to learn more on the topic before commenting.
Lets stick to the Ginan named in this thread and not get distracted by those who want to distract us from the meaning and various interpretations and discussions of this particular ginan: "Jaake paacham dise ne khand Eraaq maanhe". This is not the place to discuss Pir and Imam etc.. Does anyone have any specific interpretation on any verse of this particular ginan?
Can we move the chariot of the believers towards what this ginan is pointing to? Abuali had a very good interpretation because he had a solid knowledge but only Allah is perfect. Since Ginans have thousands of interpretations, can we share some more interpretations even if it is only on one particular verse? Can we do some brainstorming for those who believe in the wisdom contained in Ginans?
Can we move the chariot of the believers towards what this ginan is pointing to? Abuali had a very good interpretation because he had a solid knowledge but only Allah is perfect. Since Ginans have thousands of interpretations, can we share some more interpretations even if it is only on one particular verse? Can we do some brainstorming for those who believe in the wisdom contained in Ginans?
BIG SURPRISE IS COMING
Very Good Admin this is my favorite subject for a long time but give me at least 3-4 more days to collect other necessary information on this subject and I promise you and every one in this forum that, that information will be surprising and unheard information this is my promise, so hold on your breath I will be back.
Amir,
I Have not seen your posts lately, well come back brother even though you are 100% correct in your above two posts but it will not make any different for those who do not believe in ginans and pirs, those peoples always gives more important to Qasidas and Dai Nasir Khushru, BTW your efforts are always welcome by me and others but believe or not I do not give much attention on the posts of few ginans haters in this forum you must be heard these idioms 'BHES AAGAL BHAGWAT' or ANDHA AAGE NACH' or BEHRE AAGE GANA.
LET ME CONFESS AFTER YEARS THAT YOU WERE RIGHT AND I WAS WRONG IN MEANING OF 'THAWAR RAT' I found out that after years but I do not have any hesitation to accept my mistakes and say sorry, even after years.
Be ready for surprising information tomorrow and Please keep in touch via e-mail.
I Have not seen your posts lately, well come back brother even though you are 100% correct in your above two posts but it will not make any different for those who do not believe in ginans and pirs, those peoples always gives more important to Qasidas and Dai Nasir Khushru, BTW your efforts are always welcome by me and others but believe or not I do not give much attention on the posts of few ginans haters in this forum you must be heard these idioms 'BHES AAGAL BHAGWAT' or ANDHA AAGE NACH' or BEHRE AAGE GANA.
LET ME CONFESS AFTER YEARS THAT YOU WERE RIGHT AND I WAS WRONG IN MEANING OF 'THAWAR RAT' I found out that after years but I do not have any hesitation to accept my mistakes and say sorry, even after years.
Be ready for surprising information tomorrow and Please keep in touch via e-mail.
As I told you I am back!
This time I will not talk about Ginans nor any Ismaili pirs, but I will write about those composers who were not Ismaili nor even Muslims and they have predicted about Zahurat!!!!! is it not surprising information for you!!!?? I think it is, I spend many hours to collect these info so if you like my efforts please tell me that will encourage me to dig more info like this.
1, Pichham (Pachham ) dhara su Saheb Padharse
Dhar Bhalu Hath , Hath Dhal dharse,
Saheje swami Khadag ( sword) kadhashe (pull out)
ne tarat Kalinganu ( devil ruler) shir chhedse
Devayat Pandit
2, Juna'ne Jangina je di vagshe, ane vage te ghor nishan,
Sahebo parne Sundari, parne Ugam te Bhan. - Sarvan Kapadi
3, Pachham Dip se setar dip chadsi,, Jampu dip me Mela Hosi,
Anant Hathiya ka dal yu chadsi, Bade mard sab Mala fersi.
Mehdi Puran composer 'RAM DEV PIR'
Note:- this verses look like same verses of "Pacham des ne , Setar dip Minjar above thread.
4, Swet Ghode maro Swami Rajo Chadse, Meghadambar Chhatra dharse,
Dalvadal Jodha chadse, Hanumant Pahero lese -Sarwan Kapadi
5, Tyare Tretris Karod Devta, Alam Dhaninu Hathgainu karshe,
Mas to ' AASO' mas, Tath to "BIJ"
Var to Thawar (Friday) Nakhetar Bharni,
E dane Swami Panigrahan ( marry) karshe.
However Devayat Pandit, Devrakh prediction and pirs prediction has little different.
6, Uttar Dishathi Sahebo aavshe, pegde dharse pay,
Kudia nar ne vedshe "Jampu dip" no Ray
7, KAYAM KALINGA NE MARSHE
NAKALANK DHARSHE NAAM
KALIYUG UTHAPI, SATYUG THAPSE,
BOLYA DEVAYAT PIR.
8, PANCHE PANDAV KHADA PASE, KHADE KHAND 'KHURASHAN'
MILI SITER SO SO HUSENIA!!!!???? JODHA BALVANT JUWAN.
In above verses Isardas mentioning 7 million Hussainy!??
9, Hui Sehe Sansar, Dhari dhar thal Kalas thapavse,
'SURJA RANI NE KAYAM, RAJ KARVASHE.
10, AALMOT THI PATAN PADHARSHE, DESH NU NAM " DELAM DESH'
FOIBA TO 'FATIMA' KAHIYE, EJ EJ NAKALANKI VESH'
WAH BHAI WAH
11, CHOVIS TUMBA DAL CHALSE, PURUSHONO NAHI PAR,
KHURI E KALINGA NE MARSHE, CHHASATH AYUDH NO SANDHAR.
MACHH MARI LESE MEDNI, HOSE TE JAY JAY KAR,
JEM KAHYU TEM THASE, ANE THASE TE 'DASME AVATAR'( TEN INCARNATION)
12, Chhatris lakh kadagkar dharsi, RAN SANGRAM (BATTLE FIELD) MELO
'MULTAN' MANDSI---- MEHDI PURAN- RAMDEV PIR.
I think that is enough, however I have lot but let me see how you readers like my efforts!
You will find following words in above Bhajans
1, Jampu Dip
2, Star Dip,
3, Multan
4, Surja Rani
5, Vishav Kunwari
6, Khorashan
7, Daint Kalinga e.t.c
and many more from above ginan.
This time I will not talk about Ginans nor any Ismaili pirs, but I will write about those composers who were not Ismaili nor even Muslims and they have predicted about Zahurat!!!!! is it not surprising information for you!!!?? I think it is, I spend many hours to collect these info so if you like my efforts please tell me that will encourage me to dig more info like this.
1, Pichham (Pachham ) dhara su Saheb Padharse
Dhar Bhalu Hath , Hath Dhal dharse,
Saheje swami Khadag ( sword) kadhashe (pull out)
ne tarat Kalinganu ( devil ruler) shir chhedse
Devayat Pandit
2, Juna'ne Jangina je di vagshe, ane vage te ghor nishan,
Sahebo parne Sundari, parne Ugam te Bhan. - Sarvan Kapadi
3, Pachham Dip se setar dip chadsi,, Jampu dip me Mela Hosi,
Anant Hathiya ka dal yu chadsi, Bade mard sab Mala fersi.
Mehdi Puran composer 'RAM DEV PIR'
Note:- this verses look like same verses of "Pacham des ne , Setar dip Minjar above thread.
4, Swet Ghode maro Swami Rajo Chadse, Meghadambar Chhatra dharse,
Dalvadal Jodha chadse, Hanumant Pahero lese -Sarwan Kapadi
5, Tyare Tretris Karod Devta, Alam Dhaninu Hathgainu karshe,
Mas to ' AASO' mas, Tath to "BIJ"
Var to Thawar (Friday) Nakhetar Bharni,
E dane Swami Panigrahan ( marry) karshe.
However Devayat Pandit, Devrakh prediction and pirs prediction has little different.
6, Uttar Dishathi Sahebo aavshe, pegde dharse pay,
Kudia nar ne vedshe "Jampu dip" no Ray
7, KAYAM KALINGA NE MARSHE
NAKALANK DHARSHE NAAM
KALIYUG UTHAPI, SATYUG THAPSE,
BOLYA DEVAYAT PIR.
8, PANCHE PANDAV KHADA PASE, KHADE KHAND 'KHURASHAN'
MILI SITER SO SO HUSENIA!!!!???? JODHA BALVANT JUWAN.
In above verses Isardas mentioning 7 million Hussainy!??
9, Hui Sehe Sansar, Dhari dhar thal Kalas thapavse,
'SURJA RANI NE KAYAM, RAJ KARVASHE.
10, AALMOT THI PATAN PADHARSHE, DESH NU NAM " DELAM DESH'
FOIBA TO 'FATIMA' KAHIYE, EJ EJ NAKALANKI VESH'
WAH BHAI WAH
11, CHOVIS TUMBA DAL CHALSE, PURUSHONO NAHI PAR,
KHURI E KALINGA NE MARSHE, CHHASATH AYUDH NO SANDHAR.
MACHH MARI LESE MEDNI, HOSE TE JAY JAY KAR,
JEM KAHYU TEM THASE, ANE THASE TE 'DASME AVATAR'( TEN INCARNATION)
12, Chhatris lakh kadagkar dharsi, RAN SANGRAM (BATTLE FIELD) MELO
'MULTAN' MANDSI---- MEHDI PURAN- RAMDEV PIR.
I think that is enough, however I have lot but let me see how you readers like my efforts!
You will find following words in above Bhajans
1, Jampu Dip
2, Star Dip,
3, Multan
4, Surja Rani
5, Vishav Kunwari
6, Khorashan
7, Daint Kalinga e.t.c
and many more from above ginan.
Ya Ali Madad:
Ginans n Bhajans by many inspired Sufi did try explain in a poetic way that Imam will be from the west to come Indian regions physically for Didar.
They said what it was going to be liked.
It did happened some few hundred later When 46th Imam came to Indian region from west from Alamut region of Persia
like the Ginan "Pacham chee Shah na Dhul Aaviya".
Imam SMS personally did not like Ismailis to believe in any form Astrology(palm reading) n Occult Science.
What Is God's domain a human mind with whatsoever of Noorani Bliss may not b able to guide n direct dates to GOD how n when proclaim himself or end the world.
Nevertheless Sufi did have great desire of it's happening in the future.
In one's passion one can direct it's academic ability to read n know more about Intellectual flourishing during FATIMID ERA.
The cause and effect of it and identify those stalwarts to souls of Khidmatgars today in revival of similar Era.
If one is obsessed with predictions.
The band width year can plus minus 10 years can sensed for 'Zahurat from one Imam SMS farman date/MHI speech date and closely reading of Fatimid Era and lastly the name of the Imam named then.
OUR EFFORT SHOULD BE NOT NOT PREDICTING DATES BUT RATHER HOW THE WORLD CAN KNOW HIM BETTER AT ALL LEVELS HE IS TODAY.
Ginans n Bhajans by many inspired Sufi did try explain in a poetic way that Imam will be from the west to come Indian regions physically for Didar.
They said what it was going to be liked.
It did happened some few hundred later When 46th Imam came to Indian region from west from Alamut region of Persia
like the Ginan "Pacham chee Shah na Dhul Aaviya".
Imam SMS personally did not like Ismailis to believe in any form Astrology(palm reading) n Occult Science.
What Is God's domain a human mind with whatsoever of Noorani Bliss may not b able to guide n direct dates to GOD how n when proclaim himself or end the world.
Nevertheless Sufi did have great desire of it's happening in the future.
In one's passion one can direct it's academic ability to read n know more about Intellectual flourishing during FATIMID ERA.
The cause and effect of it and identify those stalwarts to souls of Khidmatgars today in revival of similar Era.
If one is obsessed with predictions.
The band width year can plus minus 10 years can sensed for 'Zahurat from one Imam SMS farman date/MHI speech date and closely reading of Fatimid Era and lastly the name of the Imam named then.
OUR EFFORT SHOULD BE NOT NOT PREDICTING DATES BUT RATHER HOW THE WORLD CAN KNOW HIM BETTER AT ALL LEVELS HE IS TODAY.
Please respect this thread.
Predictions have occurred in all era and in all regions, it is not the monopole of the Ismailis from Indian subcontinent. There are very detailed prediction of the "Aswari" in Fatimid Tradition in books written in Arabic and there are well known prediction in the pre-Fatimid Ikhwan al Safa.
This ginan is about prediction and I encourage all to post their understanding of the era or dates or whatever prediction and not to be distracted by useless posts which try to discourage understanding of the concept of predictions and prophecies.
Imam Muhammad al-Baqir said there were 4 parts in Quran originally: 1) History, 2) Commandments, 3) Imamat and 4) Predictions.
Predictions have occurred in all era and in all regions, it is not the monopole of the Ismailis from Indian subcontinent. There are very detailed prediction of the "Aswari" in Fatimid Tradition in books written in Arabic and there are well known prediction in the pre-Fatimid Ikhwan al Safa.
This ginan is about prediction and I encourage all to post their understanding of the era or dates or whatever prediction and not to be distracted by useless posts which try to discourage understanding of the concept of predictions and prophecies.
Imam Muhammad al-Baqir said there were 4 parts in Quran originally: 1) History, 2) Commandments, 3) Imamat and 4) Predictions.
Ya Ali Madad:
Please what is the exact Arabic word used by Imam Mohamed Al Baqir.
for the word 'Prediction'?
It could also be wisdom out of conviction or happening at the time said earlier in Quran.
It can be predictions of the creations and events but not so much hint of Zahurat and Doomsday with hidden dates.
I did write on AID illness from prediction from one Ayat in this forum.
One should not be encouraged specifcally on it,As it may be not be the wish of Imam/GOD on what is HIS absolute domain n prerogative.
Getting passionate n carried away on it can be playing with fire and a price to be paid for judgement of error in HIS name.
Please what is the exact Arabic word used by Imam Mohamed Al Baqir.
for the word 'Prediction'?
It could also be wisdom out of conviction or happening at the time said earlier in Quran.
It can be predictions of the creations and events but not so much hint of Zahurat and Doomsday with hidden dates.
I did write on AID illness from prediction from one Ayat in this forum.
One should not be encouraged specifcally on it,As it may be not be the wish of Imam/GOD on what is HIS absolute domain n prerogative.
Getting passionate n carried away on it can be playing with fire and a price to be paid for judgement of error in HIS name.
There is an ayas in Quran or may be a Hadith that says:-
"The person who is blind in this world,( not physically but faith wise) he will be blind in Akharat too"!! There are many jamati members considers themselves as an Ismailis but they do not have faith in our ginans and pirs ( I am not talking about any particular person but I am talking about entire Ismaili jamats around the world). They are blinds as per above ayas or Hadith, the one should ask this question to their selves; whether he fits in this criteria or not? he may be I he may be Admin, he may be Nuseri or Shiraz or sister ZZNoor!!! but bottom line is lots of jamati members do not have enough faith in ginans and pirs future predictions now a days and that is sad.
To Nuseri:-
SMS never denied about Aswari, and nor about astrology, matter of fact once he told the leaders which days and dates are good and which days and dates are bad for wedding!*
if you read his farmans then you will find "Aswari" word many times, same way Imam Ali Shah and Imam Hasan Ali Shah , Imam Hakim, Imam Jaffar Sadiq and Imam Mohd Bakirs (s.a.) respectively has also mentioned about Zaahurat/Aswari. period
Pirs and Imams can not be wrong but we as their followers (like me and you) can be wrong, but when all these Imams and pirs talked about Zahurat and some Hindu Bhagats are also adding their comment about Zahurat then in my thinking it will happen for sure. As long as I concern yes I do believe that Zaahurat will take place not only this, but I know when it will happen!!, how it happen, how many countries will be envolved, what will happen after the wars with Daint Kalinga will over?
"EJI SATPANTH SACHA NE RIKHISAR KHOTA,
NE HOSE TE KHOTA NE KHOT"
* I already post these dates and days some where in this forum.
"The person who is blind in this world,( not physically but faith wise) he will be blind in Akharat too"!! There are many jamati members considers themselves as an Ismailis but they do not have faith in our ginans and pirs ( I am not talking about any particular person but I am talking about entire Ismaili jamats around the world). They are blinds as per above ayas or Hadith, the one should ask this question to their selves; whether he fits in this criteria or not? he may be I he may be Admin, he may be Nuseri or Shiraz or sister ZZNoor!!! but bottom line is lots of jamati members do not have enough faith in ginans and pirs future predictions now a days and that is sad.
To Nuseri:-
SMS never denied about Aswari, and nor about astrology, matter of fact once he told the leaders which days and dates are good and which days and dates are bad for wedding!*
if you read his farmans then you will find "Aswari" word many times, same way Imam Ali Shah and Imam Hasan Ali Shah , Imam Hakim, Imam Jaffar Sadiq and Imam Mohd Bakirs (s.a.) respectively has also mentioned about Zaahurat/Aswari. period
Pirs and Imams can not be wrong but we as their followers (like me and you) can be wrong, but when all these Imams and pirs talked about Zahurat and some Hindu Bhagats are also adding their comment about Zahurat then in my thinking it will happen for sure. As long as I concern yes I do believe that Zaahurat will take place not only this, but I know when it will happen!!, how it happen, how many countries will be envolved, what will happen after the wars with Daint Kalinga will over?
"EJI SATPANTH SACHA NE RIKHISAR KHOTA,
NE HOSE TE KHOTA NE KHOT"
* I already post these dates and days some where in this forum.
Last edited by agakhani on Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
TO Admin:Ya Ali Madad.
You have ALREADY deleted two of my posts on this topic.
Well Agakhani is calling you 100% BLIND in Faith.Please reply to him.
I thought it was 33.3% blinkered vision( carrying someone's legacy)
I want to reply ONLY if ONLY my post is not deleted before 48 hours from posting it.
For the astrologer:
KHUDA SE EEK HONE KI KOSHISH KARO
NAHI KE KHUDA BANEE KI.
AAG SE KHELO GEE TO
SIRF RAAK KI KHAAK HO SAKTE HO.
HUM TO KHAAK TO SIRF GUTTER ME DAAL DATE HAI
You have ALREADY deleted two of my posts on this topic.
Well Agakhani is calling you 100% BLIND in Faith.Please reply to him.
I thought it was 33.3% blinkered vision( carrying someone's legacy)
I want to reply ONLY if ONLY my post is not deleted before 48 hours from posting it.
For the astrologer:
KHUDA SE EEK HONE KI KOSHISH KARO
NAHI KE KHUDA BANEE KI.
AAG SE KHELO GEE TO
SIRF RAAK KI KHAAK HO SAKTE HO.
HUM TO KHAAK TO SIRF GUTTER ME DAAL DATE HAI
That is absolutely right for the all person who consider them self as an Ismaili and does not believe or doesn't have faith in ginans and Piratan concept then they are not "BLIND" then what isthat!!!???Well Agakhani is calling you 100% BLIND in Faith.Please reply to him.
Don't worry about Admin ( because he never said that he do not believe in ginans or piratan concept) but give a favor to your self ask your self do you have faith in Ginans? I know the answer which is 'NO' so Admin is not blind but you are blind. period.
Yes and more will be deleted if you do not read what I wrote. I have already explained to you more than once the rule of posting which you do not seem to understand. And please do not try to make this Forum a battleground for personal grudges and against specific people. Respect the rule and keep your language polite and you will never be deleted.nuseri wrote:TO Admin:Ya Ali Madad.
You have ALREADY deleted two of my posts on this topic.
Rules for posting are here: http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... opic&t=620
Thanks for reading them from time to time.
Ya Ali Madad:
I was planning a befitting reply.
Just what I got on wats app message
When u move your focus from competition to contribution.
Life becomes celebration.
Never try to defeat people "Just win them".
To Agakhani:
I really appreciate your research into finding of period or dates for the Ultimatum.
It is already hinted in the Farmans along with most likely year band.
I also do have the year and may be not the exact date n time in absolute precision from last 30 years with me.
I personally do not wish to share and debate on it.
There are many questions that are still needed to answered if your passion is Ginans.
Inshallah if we do meet in future personally we will speak on predictions.
Please be aware that the Acts of God is already set in motion where nature is concerned.
Just Imagine Polar vertex for 21 days with no electricity,what % of that area would Die?
In Melbourne with Mediterranean type cool summer average of 25 degrees C
average is touching 50 degrees C just yesterday.
Just imagine of 60 degrees C in middle east for few week with power also going off,What % of Mulla's like are pulled up?
The year 2014 the total being 7 is going to very eventful year and we are already 15 days into it with nature's move never seen or known ever happening before.
If you feel that predicting for dates is your academic passion.
God bless you in your effort and my best wishes.
I was planning a befitting reply.
Just what I got on wats app message
When u move your focus from competition to contribution.
Life becomes celebration.
Never try to defeat people "Just win them".
To Agakhani:
I really appreciate your research into finding of period or dates for the Ultimatum.
It is already hinted in the Farmans along with most likely year band.
I also do have the year and may be not the exact date n time in absolute precision from last 30 years with me.
I personally do not wish to share and debate on it.
There are many questions that are still needed to answered if your passion is Ginans.
Inshallah if we do meet in future personally we will speak on predictions.
Please be aware that the Acts of God is already set in motion where nature is concerned.
Just Imagine Polar vertex for 21 days with no electricity,what % of that area would Die?
In Melbourne with Mediterranean type cool summer average of 25 degrees C
average is touching 50 degrees C just yesterday.
Just imagine of 60 degrees C in middle east for few week with power also going off,What % of Mulla's like are pulled up?
The year 2014 the total being 7 is going to very eventful year and we are already 15 days into it with nature's move never seen or known ever happening before.
If you feel that predicting for dates is your academic passion.
God bless you in your effort and my best wishes.
Thanks for comments at least one person liked my efforts, however I should clear one think her; with grace of Almighty Allah I keep interest in almost every fields not only ginans or future prediction only but almost in every fields if you read my posts then you will find my comments in various field no matter it is about "life after death, reincarnations, Ten Avatars, Ginans, UFO or History.If you feel that predicting for dates is your academic passion.
God bless you in your effort and my best wishes.
Ali is Great!! I should salute you towards your love to H. Ali (s.a.) let start new year with love and with brotherhood.
I would sure like to meet you in person , Inshallah,