That first 3calips didn't participated in burial of Prophet!

ShamsB · Post by **ShamsB** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:42 am

zznoor wrote:
Admin wrote:What Bibi Aisha put in the mouth of the Prophet - PBUH - will be debated up to the end of time. But whatever was mixed with it made him die. Yes Ennemies of Hazrat Ali will always try to protect her.

For, these are the same people who helped her in the Jang e Jamal. And these are the same people who want us to believe they have not come back in this time because "Islam" does not believe in rebirth

LOL!
Muslim does not believe in reincarnation. Only half Hindu, idol worshipping Muslims believe in reincarnation. I do not know a single person who speak ill of Ahl e bait.

It is comforting to know that not all Ismailis believe in reincarnation. As far as post death events, debates will go on forever and majority has decided that they are not important. For them Salat, swam, zakat and Hujj are sufficient.

ZZNoor - here is where I take another one of your shoes and beat you on the head with it.

You stated that it is the majority that decided that they're not important?

Since when does faith and religion depend on the majority???

In your view as you've stated - ALLAH is now dependent on the opinion of the majority....
Isn't Allah - AllahuSamad - The Absolute Independent?

He doesn't depend on anyone or anything?

or did the majority decided that they will overrule Allah?

Have you read the Qur'an? You claim to follow it.

There are 27 separate references to rebirth. Please send a message to Allah to tell him that you are in disagreement. Also please send Him the vote counts from your majority. Maybe He can send your corner Maulvi a text to make the corrections in the Qur'an?
Maybe we now turn the Qiblah to where you're standing and ask the muslims to do Sajda there...

In your view - Al Hallaj was probably a fanatic, as were Tabrez, Rumi, Shibli, Rabia et al....

Shams

Post by **Admin** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:41 pm

Shams, do not waste your time with zznoor, she does not accept that there are thousands of interpretations to the Quran, she is living in her own world and the interpretation of rigid Wahabis is enough for her.

And obviously if majority rules in spiritual matters, all Muslims would be Christian or Bhudist or Hindus, what an irrational suggestion. We Ismaili do not look for quantity, we look for quality.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:54 pm

Zznoor....It is my sincere request to you to please stop thinking one sided....Islam itself is a compassionate religion and we as believing muslims should have pluralistic view of other sects.

Everybody needs a guide to guide them....shia's take the wasila of living imam e zaman where are sunnis take the hadiths of imam bukhari/ muslim and all others that support their version.

In the end every sect needs a guide...Just like imamat plays a central role in shia islam....the hadiths play a very vital role in those sects who does not believe in imamat.

For ex: How to pray, How to break the fast [what to say] etc etc

All these things are not mentioned in quran and for that reason we refer to our respected guides.

Lets just have a sane argument rather than abusing each others faith....and if we disagree of certain issues then lets just agree to disagree rather than posting the same question again and again.

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:58 pm

shiraz.virani wrote:Zznoor....It is my sincere request to you to please stop thinking one sided....Islam itself is a compassionate religion and we as believing muslims should have pluralistic view of other sects.

Everybody needs a guide to guide them....shia's take the wasila of living imam e zaman where are sunnis take the hadiths of imam bukhari/ muslim and all others that support their version.

In the end every sect needs a guide...Just like imamat plays a central role in shia islam....the hadiths play a very vital role in those sects who does not believe in imamat.

For ex: How to pray, How to break the fast [what to say] etc etc

All these things are not mentioned in quran and for that reason we refer to our respected guides.

Lets just have a sane argument rather than abusing each others faith....and if we disagree of certain issues then lets just agree to disagree rather than posting the same question again and again.

It looks like being here and defending Quran has displeased many proud Ismailis of graduate and master level. We believe it is good to be just at KG level but do it well. Majority of Muslims do not even do KG level.

For ex: How to pray, How to break the fast [what to say] etc etc

Let me know when MHI institutes Namaaz and Ramadaan fasting.
It should not be difficult. Ismaili Muslims follow Qadi Numans book. He wrote it under guidance of Fatemi Imam.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:53 pm

zznoor said :

Only half Hindu, idol worshipping Muslims believe in reincarnation.

and then she said :

Let me know when MHI institutes Namaaz and Ramadaan fasting.

The term namaaz is derived from 2 sanskrit roots namely

Namah & Yajnah which means bowing and worshipping... The word namaaz is etymologically related to the Sanskrit word "namaste"

So does this make you half hindu ???

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:18 pm

shiraz.virani wrote:zznoor said :

Only half Hindu, idol worshipping Muslims believe in reincarnation.
and then she said :

Let me know when MHI institutes Namaaz and Ramadaan fasting.
The term namaaz is derived from 2 sanskrit roots namely

Namah & Yajnah which means bowing and worshipping... The word namaaz is etymologically related to the Sanskrit word "namaste"

So does this make you half hindu ???

Namaaz is used for Arabic Salat in Indo-pak-Persian region.
We pray the way prophet prayed Salat.
Even Agakhani use word Dua/Namaaz.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:52 pm

The reason why I asked you that question is because you compared ismailis with idol worshippers [well not directly but we know where you were pointing at]...But anyways my question to you zznoor was that...

If hinduism as a religion is all about idols and idol worshipping, why would muslims from Indo-Pak and Persia use a sanskrit[hindu] term for worship ???

Couldn't they simply use the term salaat ??

Also I find it kind of offensive that you used the term "half hindus"...Do you know the same quran says :

Verily, those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians [wal-sabi'een], whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and does righteous deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

(Al-Baqarah 2:62)

Surely, those who believe, and those who are the Jews and the Sabians and the Christians, whosoever believed in Allah and the Last Day, and worked righteousness, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

(Al-Ma'idah 5:69)

Those who believe, those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians, Christians, Magians, and Polytheists,- Allah will judge between them on the Day of Judgment: For Allah is witness of all things.

(Al-Hajj 22:17)

Who are sabian's zznoor ???...Sabians refer to non Abrahamic traditions and hinduism is one of it.

"whoever believes in allah[swt] and last day and does righteous deeds shall have their reward with their lord , on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve"

If a hindu does not perform the salaat as mentioned by imam bukhari or muslim that does not make him a lower category momin ...If a hindu cannot or chooses not to fast, that does not make him a lower category momin...If a hindu refuses to go to hajj and throw stones and kiss a black stone, that does not make him a lower category momin......What matters is :

1] Whether he is god loving/ god conscious [not god fearing which you are]
2] If he believes in the divine then he also believes in his judgement
3] Who is a good person who does righteous deeds [all the good things that you can name]

thats it !!!....Full stop !!!

Unity of god and service to mankind is what prophet muhammad[saw] and shri krishna or prophet krishna has taught.

Anyways I won't waste my digital ink [like you said earlier] on this issue

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:15 am

Couldn't they simply use the term salaat ??

Why we use word Khuda? Not Allah or rabb!
Why you say Khudawind not Allahwind or Rabbwind!

Every religion has some guidelines given from supreme thru some chosen person. So Majority of Muslims has Quran and Sunnah.
Shia have their own Sunnah of Prophet and Imams.
Ismailis have Farman and Ginans. (Quran is corrupted so used for arguments only)
Please read 2:208. Us Muslims are required to enter Islam completely not halfway.

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:29 am

If a hindu does not perform the salaat as mentioned by imam bukhari or muslim that does not make him a lower category momin ...
if he does required Kriya makes him good Hindu Momin, not Muslim Momin
If a hindu cannot or chooses not to fast, that does not make him a lower category momin..
if his religion requires to fast and if he does then makes him good Hindu Momin, not Muslim Momin.
If a hindu refuses to go to hajj and throw stones and kiss a black stone, that does not make him a lower category momin......
he is not required and permitted to do this only Muslim Momin do
It seems you you dislike those who do this understandingly or out of ignorance
Don't you fast on Bij and do Ghat Pat and drink Abe Shifa and go to JK?
If yes U are good Ismaili Momin.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:43 pm

he is not required and permitted to do this only Muslim Momin do

Can you tell why is not permitted to a Hindu pilgrimage? it shows that you believe Hindu'ss god is different then Muslim god!?

There was only one religion after H. Adam (s.a.) and the name of that religion was "Satpanth, SANATAN " as per Ismaili ginans, you can call that religion as " right path" or 'SHIRATAN MUSTAKIM'.That time Islam was not even started or prophet Mohd was not even born but religion was there.

Judaism, Christianity, or Hinduism are just different names of different religions they all worship and pray one and only one Almighty Allah. so you can not tell them Hindu Momin or Muslim Momin.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:09 pm

Why we use word Khuda? Not Allah or rabb!
Why you say Khudawind not Allahwind or Rabbwind!

Well but you have already told us that we are half hindus...so it doent matter if I call hazar imam = khudawind, swami, parmeshwar, mawla or rabbiwind.

But what matters is when the majority muslims have abundance of words in arabic/urdu they still chose a hindu word for their prayers...Why is that ?? Well neither you nor me can answer it so lets leave that to allah[swt]

then you said :

if he does required Kriya makes him good Hindu Momin, not Muslim Momin

But if one believes in one god and does what god commands hims to do...ie belief in one god and serivce to humanity that ultimately makes him a muslim !!!...Muslims submit to one god...so if a hindu is doing the samething then ultimately that makes him a muslim, so then how can you say he'z gonna be a hindu momin and not muslim ???

if his religion requires to fast and if he does then makes him good Hindu Momin, not Muslim Momin.

Did allah[swt] ordered the sabians to fast in that aayat ???...Did he put down few terms and conditions in that aayat as to what hindus should do in order to enter heaven ???

The only thing that allah[swt] wants from any momin is that he has faith in him and do righteous deeds, thats it !!!!

he is not required and permitted to do this only Muslim Momin do
It seems you you dislike those who do this understandingly or out of ignorance

1] Well even hindus go to tirupati and other temples just like muslims do

2] They even shave their heads just like muslims do

3] They kiss the stone [often black = shiv ling] just like muslims do[black stone]

4] The throw flowers/puff rice at different places at tirupati just like muslims do [throw stones]

So when there is sooooo many similarities between islam and hinduism, does that make you half hindu ???

Don't you fast on Bij and do Ghat Pat and drink Abe Shifa and go to JK?
If yes U are good Ismaili Momin.

I don't have to do all that....fasting has physical benefits, its good for the human body....it has nothing to do with your soul....customs or shariah that you have mentioned is again customary and has nothing to with your soul again.

For me... A child serving water in JK earns greater sawaab than the person sitting inside the JK and reciting dua. But not everybody thinks alike and for that reason I said lets just agree to disagree because at the end of the day you gonna do what you think is right and Ismailis gonna do what they think is correct.

To each his own !!!

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:38 pm

Can you tell why is not permitted to a Hindu pilgrimage? it shows that you believe Hindu'ss god is different then Muslim god!?

It is in Quran my holy book. Non Muslims are not allowed in certain area in Mecca.

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:44 pm

1] Well even hindus go to tirupati and other temples just like muslims do

2] They even shave their heads just like muslims do

Good for them

3] They kiss the stone [often black = shiv ling] just like muslims do[black stone]

Muslim are not required to kiss Hazre Aswad. If they do then you should know Hadith on this.

4] The throw flowers/puff rice at different places at tirupati just like muslims do [throw stones]

As a Muslim you should know why they do it. It is part of Hujj ritual

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:38 am

It is in Quran my holy book. Non Muslims are not allowed in certain area in Mecca.

Can you please quote me that ayays? if it is quoted as you wrote above then that is not right justice from a God, because he also created other religions peoples too!.

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:54 pm

agakhani wrote:
It is in Quran my holy book. Non Muslims are not allowed in certain area in Mecca.
Can you please quote me that ayays? if it is quoted as you wrote above then that is not right justice from a God, because he also created other religions peoples too!.

Quran 9:28

that is not right justice from a God, because he also created other religions peoples too!.

Ask God or his rep on earth

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:59 pm

Have you ever spoke with your God!!!? Does your mentor spoke with God? Does any members of anti_Ismaili group ever speak with God? if not then I can not... but why don't you ask your mentor first? or if you do not have courage to ask him give me his name and telephone #, so I can make contact with him and ask him what he/she has answer of this question? let me repeat it here; why do not non-Muslim are not permitted to enter in certain part of Mecca?.

Can you please answer me following questions?:-

1, I asked you many times before, why you left Ismaili sect? you never told us but it is not hidden any more, can you give me reason?

2, How much your mentor or anti-Ismaili group pays you per month? may be! I can beat his price,I promise I will give you more money then your mentor is paying to you, if you stop writing bad about our sect or our Imams and leave this forum!.

3, What is the Ayas # in which Allah restricts to non Muslims not to enter in certain part of Mecca?

4, Or there is no such kind ayas in Quran at all? [/quote]

5, Or you just made up this; to prove your self smart ? if you not put the ayas # soon then I have no other choice but I have to believe that you just made up that!.

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:51 pm

Have you ever spoke with your God!!!?
no
Does your mentor spoke with God? I have no mentor
Does any members of anti_Ismaili group ever speak with God? if not then I can not... but why don't you ask your mentor first? or if you do not have courage to ask him give me his name and telephone #, so I can make contact with him and ask him what he/she has answer of this question? let me repeat it here;
you must be hyper peronoid.
why do not non-Muslim are not permitted to enter in certain part of Mecca?.

i gave you Aya number here it is again 9:28
Enter same question in search like Google, you will get answer

Can you please answer me following questions?:-

1, I asked you many times before, why you left Ismaili sect? you never told us but it is not hidden any more, can you give me reason?
I read Many Quran translation and Tafseers and realized I must follow Quranicj command of Salat, Swam and Zakat

2, How much your mentor or anti-Ismaili group pays you per month? may be! I can beat his price,I promise I will give you more money then your mentor is paying to you, if you stop writing bad about our sect or our Imams and leave this forum!.
stop being pyronodi

3, What is the Ayas # in which Allah restricts to non Muslims not to enter in certain part of Mecca?

4, Or there is no such kind ayas in Quran at all?
Quran 9:28

5, Or you just made up this; to prove your self smart ? if you not put the ayas # soon then I have no other choice but I have to believe that you just made up that!.

you are diverting from thread. 3 Khalifs did attend the funeral of Prophet and before Admin gets angry open up another thread for venting your anger

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:40 pm

It is 100% true that first 3 caliphs were not participated in prophet Mohammad funeral.
I asked you earlier that if you need proofs from Sunny ulemas I can give you, how many you need? It is not too late sister I can still give you as many references you like not from Shia scholars but Sunny scholar and voh bhi era ghera nani lekin Jane pahchane. But you have to be honest with your self you have toread all that books no if or but!!!! are you agree with this?
I am not paranoid nor I becomes angry on you or on anybody else except nuseri being an Ismaili or at least considered him self as an Ismaili and writing bad a ojt our pirs shame to him. You are ok being a non ismaili you can write but for him it is not titratable.

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:52 pm

Attending Muslim funeral means this.
Do you visit family of deceased?
Yes 3 did
Pray janaaza Namaaz
Yes 3 did
Attend actual burial
Burial happened around midnight Wednesday.
There is no account of 3 being inside room of Aisha. Too small for hole, dirt pile and immediate male family member.
Even Prophet's wife did not know burial time until they heard noise of digging.
Funeral procession
There was no procession.

Now show me hadith that 3 were at Shakifa for 30 hours trying to steal Raaj Gadi!
BTW you should post proof of your contention.