Lifelong Learning: Articles
Approaches to the Qur’an
Dr Shainool Jiwa
This is an edited version of an article that appeared in The Ismaili UK under the title 'Understanding the Qur'an' in December 2003.
Abstract
In order to understand the Qur’an, this scripture has to be looked at in the context in which it was revealed, as well as the purpose it serves and how it is interpreted by different sects of Muslims. This is what this article does; the author starts by looking briefly at the life of Prophet Muhammad to whom this religious text was revealed details including his temperament and his standing in Meccan society. Jiwa then covers issues such as the importance of recitation of the Qur’an, the method used for codification, what the Qur’an says about the divine-human relationship, the role of man and man's stature in relation to Allah. The contentious issue of who has the legitimacy or authority within the Muslim community to give guidance is also explored. The Shi'i idea is that guidance can only come from someone who has been bestowed with 'ilm, whereas, the Sunni interpretation is that the 'ulama (religious leaders) come to occupy this position of authority to interpret the Qur’an and give guidance in today's society to Muslims all around the world.
“O God, ease my heart with the Qur’an, fill my being with the Qur’an; illumine my sight with the Qur’an, and guide my tongue with the Qur’an. Grant me strength for as long as You allow me to live, for there is neither strength nor power, except in You.”
(A prayer by Imam ‘Ali b. Abi Talib (alayhi-s-salam (a.s.) – upon whom be peace)1
The Qur’an-i Sharif is the foundational text for Muslims. It has shaped Muslim consciousness over the course of centuries. For Muslims, the Qur’an is the word of God, which entered human time and history. The Noble Qur’an has guided the thought and conduct of Muslims belonging to different communities of interpretation and spiritual affiliation, from century to century, in diverse cultural environments, lending itself to a wide spectrum of interpretations2. Muslims regard the Qur’an as being a unique phenomenon in religious history that considers itself the culmination of a series of revelations. It participates in human history in that it is an eternal book of guidance that must be understood and pondered if it is to serve as the moral and spiritual guide for human conduct. It also reflects the socio-economic, religious and political situation of seventh century Arabia. Accordingly, it is reflective of the historical circumstances of the life of the Prophet Muhammad and the experience of his community. In the library of world scriptures, the Qur’an is one of the most widely read, studied, revered and influential works of human history.
Download PDF version of article (131 KB)
Table of contents
The Prophet Muhammad
The Revelation
Recitation and Recording of the Qur'an
Divine-Human Relationship
The Qur'an as a Foundational Source of Muslim Practice
The Shi'i Interpretations of Authority
Notes
http://www.iis.ac.uk/view_article.asp?C ... 08#anchor6
Is Quran compilation complete?
It is correct, I heard similar story from a waez but I want another proof from the readers of this forum, so asked the question, any way the story is:-
A group of Ismaili missionaries asked Mowlana Sultan Mohammad shah (s.a.) a question; where are those 10 paras? SMS answered them that these paras are currently in my possession but before this they were in possession of my father and before that they were in possession of my Grand dad and so on, but when the right time will come and needs of these paras arise then the Imam of the time will bring it in light, so basically those paras are in safe hand..
A group of Ismaili missionaries asked Mowlana Sultan Mohammad shah (s.a.) a question; where are those 10 paras? SMS answered them that these paras are currently in my possession but before this they were in possession of my father and before that they were in possession of my Grand dad and so on, but when the right time will come and needs of these paras arise then the Imam of the time will bring it in light, so basically those paras are in safe hand..
There has been discussion on this issue at:agakhani wrote:It is correct, I heard similar story from a waez but I want another proof from the readers of this forum, so asked the question, any way the story is:-
A group of Ismaili missionaries asked Mowlana Sultan Mohammad shah (s.a.) a question; where are those 10 paras? SMS answered them that these paras are currently in my possession but before this they were in possession of my father and before that they were in possession of my Grand dad and so on, but when the right time will come and needs of these paras arise then the Imam of the time will bring it in light, so basically those paras are in safe hand..
Doctrines --> Are some parts of Dua taken from the 10 parts
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... 86&start=0
Ginans --> Quran
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... ght=sipara
I remember reading about one Surat mentioned in the Manuscript found in Bankipore, the name was Surah al Nurayan, the Surat of the two lights (That one explained the Noor et Piratan and the Noor e Imamah), I remember the article was in French if I am not mistaken...
Some will say such Sura can not exist. I am not looking for controversies. Those who still have an independent intellect can search for it.
Some will say such Sura can not exist. I am not looking for controversies. Those who still have an independent intellect can search for it.
Just found this on one web site:
"Shi'ah Additions to the Koran," by the Rev. Mr. W. St. Clair Tisdall, in the July, 1913, issue of The Muslim World. There they will find, in facsimile, the text of Surah al-Walayat (sic), a surah of Shi'a origin. The article contains an English rendering of that surah as well as of a longer surah, also of Shi'a origin, namely, Surah al-Nurayn. The facsimile mentioned, as well as the texts from which the translations are based, is taken from a manuscript of the Bankipur Library in India. "
Y
"Shi'ah Additions to the Koran," by the Rev. Mr. W. St. Clair Tisdall, in the July, 1913, issue of The Muslim World. There they will find, in facsimile, the text of Surah al-Walayat (sic), a surah of Shi'a origin. The article contains an English rendering of that surah as well as of a longer surah, also of Shi'a origin, namely, Surah al-Nurayn. The facsimile mentioned, as well as the texts from which the translations are based, is taken from a manuscript of the Bankipur Library in India. "
Y
Did Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah RA offered any evidence that Quran was tempered?kmaherali Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2004 11:56 am
The following is the Firman fo Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah suggesting that the Quran was tampered with.
"Those who show partiality and try to favour somebody, then they will become ignorant like those who having brought about alterations in the Quran created discord in religion after the demise of Prophet Muhamad."(Zanzibar, 14 September 1905)
The Imam does not have to give any explanation. Asking the Imam for evidence is the highest form of insult and contempt
But if the subject interest you there are many books on the compilation of the Quran and several missing Ayats are noted therein. That is if you follow the mute Quran compilation of Osman. If you are talking about the Eternal Quran of Allah, then of course nothing is missing and nothing has been added.
But if the subject interest you there are many books on the compilation of the Quran and several missing Ayats are noted therein. That is if you follow the mute Quran compilation of Osman. If you are talking about the Eternal Quran of Allah, then of course nothing is missing and nothing has been added.
Goat eating will not stand up to rational explanationAdmin wrote:Actualy during the compilation, they left all the manscripts one night in Bibi Aisha's room. In the morning they found that a goat had eaten most of the material. They restarted again to compile.
Some people do not like to read on Islamic history. I think they should.
It is claimed that Bolta Quran no. 1 (Hz Ali) and no. 1A (Hz Ibn Abbas) knew every revealed passage of Quran, so it did not matter if Goat ate it or not. They could have dictated verbatim.
Hz Ali ruled unified umma for 4+ years, why did he not publish real uncorrupted Quran? Please no usual excuses.
Bolta Quran 48 claimed to have additional 10 chapter, where are they? What prevented him from writing down. He did promise it.
Sahabas were permitted to ask all kind of question to the Prophet. Why not MHI?
a_27826 wrote
Please read this may be it will help youYou are right; I should refer the “Uthmani Mushaf” as Quran with respect.
By the way, weren’t the manuscripts of the Quran in care of Prophet's widow given to her by Caliph Abu Bakar?
http://answering-islam.org/Gilchrist/Jam/index.html
nuseri wrote:It is because of the Quran (distorted to a certain extent) and shallow
do you have a copy of this distorted and Shallow Quran? Or you feel it is distorted?
understanding of It readers, the world has become a less happy place.
is it Quran's fault when Quran is misunderstood by readers?
Why are Shariatis (BBB) at Large looks like lost and frustrated amongst
other communities in spite of having the best Holy Book amongst other
faith?
there are 1.4 billion Muslim in this world. Out of that about 15 million are Batini
Remaining are Zahiri or Shariati as you call them. Do yo mean to say all of them are lost? Or minority of Them!
to zznoor:
the word 'Shallow' is used of the readers and not the holy book per se.
Blessed are the top 2% who are with ALI n ALI is with them.
Your frustated n boring posting is like Sharaiti 98% is copy pasten links is fed by your Wahabi quakes team working for you in different time zone.
You are branding yourself as 'Satanic Witch' trying to gate crash into Haqiqti Angels.
the word 'Shallow' is used of the readers and not the holy book per se.
Blessed are the top 2% who are with ALI n ALI is with them.
Your frustated n boring posting is like Sharaiti 98% is copy pasten links is fed by your Wahabi quakes team working for you in different time zone.
You are branding yourself as 'Satanic Witch' trying to gate crash into Haqiqti Angels.
-
shiraz.virani
- Posts: 1256
- Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 2:52 pm
Aha !!!....And what about black people going to hell...can you please provide us the surahs or aayats from the holy quran where allah[swt] says blacks are cursed race and surely will go to hell !!!to zznoor:
the word 'Shallow' is used of the readers and not the holy book per se.
Blessed are the top 2% who are with ALI n ALI is with them.
Your frustated n boring posting is like Sharaiti 98% is copy pasten links is fed by your Wahabi quakes team working for you in different time zone.
You are branding yourself as 'Satanic Witch' trying to gate crash into Haqiqti Angels.
Stop dodging questions and keep your idiotic theory to yourself....Instead of jumping from one topic to another try to stay focused on 1 topic.
This is a pure hypocrisy on your part where on one hand you said quran has been altered and the real quran is with imam e zaman and the next thing you do is copy/paste a quranic verse that matches that of what some call usman's book and say you need some clarification ??
'Ali n Ali'nuseri wrote:to zznoor:
the word 'Shallow' is used of the readers and not the holy book per se.
Blessed are the top 2% who are with ALI n ALI is with them.
Your frustated n boring posting is like Sharaiti 98% is copy pasten links is fed by your Wahabi quakes team working for you in different time zone.
You are branding yourself as 'Satanic Witch' trying to gate crash into Haqiqti Angels.
Are you talking about Hz Ali RA or your personal God you call Ali?
There is no proof that 2% are blessed and 98% are going to hell, it is belief of every religion or sub religion that theirs is best and onlY way.
Shariati and Wahabi are projeritive words. Learn from your MHI, he never uses them. May be 48 used it in past but there was no inter Nate then.
g
Are you Calling somebody yo do not know 'Satanic Witch' ? Are you ok upstairs?
You definitely do not sound like Haqiqti Angels!
“distorted” book might mean the present version of the book does not represent at all the sequence of verses sent by Allah to the Prophet, which can completely change the interpretation of the whole compilation.zznoor wrote:nuseri wrote:It is because of the Quran (distorted to a certain extent) and shallow
do you have a copy of this distorted and Shallow Quran? Or you feel it is distorted?
understanding of It readers, the world has become a less happy place.
is it Quran's fault when Quran is misunderstood by readers?
Why are Shariatis (BBB) at Large looks like lost and frustrated amongst
other communities in spite of having the best Holy Book amongst other
faith?
there are 1.4 billion Muslim in this world. Out of that about 15 million are Batini
Remaining are Zahiri or Shariati as you call them. Do yo mean to say all of them are lost? Or minority of Them!
1. The present version of the book, which the Prophet did never see, approved nor wanted nor was told by Allah to leave as a written reference for the future.
2. The collection of scattered fragments of written verses on palm branches, flat stones, and shoulder blades and verses merely in the people’s memory was done by Zaid bin Thabit by order of Caliph Abu Bakar, who was persuaded by Umar for the fear of Quran was beginning to “get lost”.
3. Zaid bin Thabit collected it till he found Last Verse of Surat at Tauba from one person only.
4. For some unknown (mysterious?) reasons, the collected verses were not compiled during Abu Bakar’s nor Omar’s Caliphate.
5. Zaid bin Thabit’s collected verses was in the custody of first Caliph Abu Bakar, then in the custody of Caliph Omar, and then in the custody of Hafsa (widow of the prophet).
6. Caliph Uthman was told that, the Quran is still continuing to “get lost” and hence urgent need of the collected verses to compiled and standardized and distributed.
7. Caliph Uthman “borrowed “ the collected verses from Hafsa and compilation into a book form was done and standardized copies were distributed and all other copies in the possession of the umma were destroyed.
8. The collected verses in the possession of Hafsa were destroyed after her death during the Caliphate of Muawiya.
Points or questions
a. The Quran mentions the word al-kitab and it obviously signifies a single and united entity. It cannot be applied to parts texts which are scattered among some people and preserved in some people’s memory only.
b. During the collection of Quran, Zaid bin Thabit found Last Verse of Surat at Tauba from one person only. This means that Quran was not 100% written or memorized.
c. If the book of Allah did not exists in physically compiled form during the Prophets time, then which book was Omar referring to when he replied “The Book of Allah is sufficient for us” when the Prophet asked for a pen and paper on his deathbed. And why did he say ‘Book’ (the present version of the book did not exist at that time) and not just say Quran (the recitations did certainly existed at that time)?
d. If the Quran had not been compiled during the lifetime of the Prophet then why did he during his farewell pilgrimage tell the companions the following: “I am leaving amongst you two weighty things the Book of Allah (Kitabullah) and my Ahlulbayt”?
e. Is it possible the word “kitab” had a variant meaning at that time to the meaning we have today?
f. Allah says in 075:017 "Ours it is to collect it, and to recite it"
Did Abu Bakar, Omar and Uthman violated the above verse?
It is known fact that Quran text is not in sequence as revealed to prophet.“distorted” book might mean the present version of the book does not represent at all the sequence of verses sent by Allah to the Prophet, which can completely change the interpretation of the whole compilation.
Nobody for last 1400+ years possesses or presented Quran as revealed in sequence
If that is the case then nobody possesses unchanged meaning of Quran.
If somebody claims he possesses additional verses of Quran or unchanged version of Quran will be deemed liar until he presents it.
Please stop making stories without proof.
-
shiraz.virani
- Posts: 1256
- Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 2:52 pm
In today's world where muslims are killing muslims [syria as an example] do you think people will even consider listening to the person who would come up and say look I have the actual compilation of the holy quran ???If somebody claims he possesses additional verses of Quran or unchanged version of Quran will be deemed liar until he presents it.
Sister the times have changed, the message of islam is not limited to the book...the work of a man speaks louder than him going around and singing the song "look I have the acutal compilation"
My point is even if somebody does present the unchanged version of quran he will still be called a liar and even be killed in the name of islam because we have fixed mentality and we dont wanna change that.
Any book or papers meant for reading where the person is obliged to act upon it words and spirit gives us the FINAL result of the 'BOOK' by analyzing it's living readers acted upon it.(not the dead ones)
See the status of the Shairatis (BBB) today ,they are reflecting the book they are reading regularly
We also have the blessed Ismailis.who may have different opinion of the BOOK.
they also read n reflect upon thier Ismaili books (solar stuff) .
Observe their glow of light on thier faces,(not the skin color), their quality of life. Charity, how they carry themselves physically.
In a 3rd world country the the % of Muslim girls graduating is just 21% of those who earlier went to school,while for Ismaili girls is 88% completing thier college Graduation (not school).
In all parameters of human quality index amongst world community the Shariatis fail MISERABLY to meet the mark,except for bomb blasts n killings.
The living result of the readers is the 'SOLID PROOF' N not hear say and witness of those times n various stories, a antique holy book 1400 years old.( 11 pages of admin got wasted in that)
PADNE WALE KI AUKAT SE SAMAJ LO ,WO KIS CHEEZ PADHE HAI.
DUNIYA DEKH LIYE HAI DUDH KA DUDH AUR PAANI KA PAANI.
A reply to an assumption,for me it is:
ALI = ALLAH = HAZAR IMAM = KHUDA.
This is the key to my Baatin understanding.I am just a partially secular educated person.
no copy paste,no links just the reflection of my IMAAN with not so good
grasp of English Language.
See the status of the Shairatis (BBB) today ,they are reflecting the book they are reading regularly
We also have the blessed Ismailis.who may have different opinion of the BOOK.
they also read n reflect upon thier Ismaili books (solar stuff) .
Observe their glow of light on thier faces,(not the skin color), their quality of life. Charity, how they carry themselves physically.
In a 3rd world country the the % of Muslim girls graduating is just 21% of those who earlier went to school,while for Ismaili girls is 88% completing thier college Graduation (not school).
In all parameters of human quality index amongst world community the Shariatis fail MISERABLY to meet the mark,except for bomb blasts n killings.
The living result of the readers is the 'SOLID PROOF' N not hear say and witness of those times n various stories, a antique holy book 1400 years old.( 11 pages of admin got wasted in that)
PADNE WALE KI AUKAT SE SAMAJ LO ,WO KIS CHEEZ PADHE HAI.
DUNIYA DEKH LIYE HAI DUDH KA DUDH AUR PAANI KA PAANI.
A reply to an assumption,for me it is:
ALI = ALLAH = HAZAR IMAM = KHUDA.
This is the key to my Baatin understanding.I am just a partially secular educated person.
no copy paste,no links just the reflection of my IMAAN with not so good
grasp of English Language.
So you agree the compilers (commission of four people set up by Uthman) couldn’t place the collected verses in its right chronological sequence?zznoor wrote: It is known fact that Quran text is not in sequence as revealed to prophet.
Nobody for last 1400+ years possesses or presented Quran as revealed in sequence
So which Quran Allah refers in the verse 015:009?
015:009 “It is We who have sent down the Remembrance (al dhikra), and We guard (hafidh) it”.
Certainly it can’t be referring to Uthmani Mushaf, which didn’t exist at the time and whose compilers couldn’t even place the collected verses in chronological order.
Certainly it must be referring to the Talking Quran of that Time, the Prophet, to whom the Quran was revealed.
The Quran can’t be compiled into one single book; even million books won’t be enough (refer 018:109 and 031:027)
Far from ita_27826
So you agree the compilers (commission of four people set up by Uthman) couldn’t place the collected verses in its right chronological sequence?
There is ample evidence that companions wrote revelation on whatever writing material available. It is contention of majority of Muslims that Angel Gibraeal rehearsed Quran with Prophet every year and twice on last year. Enemies and doubters of Islam has been creating Fitna for 1400+ years. So be it. If Koja Ismailis believe in contention that 10 additional chapters are with Imam, so be it.
Please Google ( Rebuttal to Samuel Green's Article "MUHAMMAD'S PERFECT MEMORY?" by Bassam Zawadi )
Brother, we have different P.O.V. You are leaning towards Quran being incomplete and corrupted. For evidence you depend on one farman and misinterpretation of Ayas, mistranslated or partial translation and/ or out of context quote.a_27826
So which Quran Allah refers in the verse 015:009?
015:009 “It is We who have sent down the Remembrance (al dhikra), and We guard (hafidh) it”.
Certainly it can’t be referring to Uthmani Mushaf, which didn’t exist at the time and whose compilers couldn’t even place the collected verses in chronological order.
Certainly it must be referring to the Talking Quran of that Time, the Prophet, to whom the Quran was revealed.
The Quran can’t be compiled into one single book; even million books won’t be enough (refer 018:109 and 031:027)
You quoted 15:9
Find your favorite translation and start reading from 15:6.
Context here is Prophet being called crazy. Read tafseer of this verses.
As for example Maudidi's comment 6
6.
That is, you should note it well that it is We Who have sent down this zikr. Thus it is not Our Messenger whom you are calling insane but in fact this abusive remark applies to Us. Moreover, you should know that it is Our Word and We are preserving it. Therefore, you can do no harm to it, nor can you discredit it by your ridicules, taunts and objections, nor can you hamper its progress. Whatever you may do against it, no one will ever be able to change or tamper with it.
Now read Asad, Pickthal,Shakir, tafseer Ibn Katheer or any other tafseer and translation.
Same with 18:109 and 37:27
You cannot deduce that these Ayas say "The Quran can’t be compiled into one single book; even million books won’t be enough"
Just read any translation
Where does it says Quran can not be compiled in one single book!
Here is Ibn katheer's tafseer
(27. And if all the trees on the earth were pens and the sea, with seven seas behind it to add to it, yet the Words of Allah would not be exhausted. Verily, Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise.) (28. The creation of you all and the resurrection of you all are only as a single person. Verily, Allah is All-Hearer, All-Seer.)
Allah tells us of His might, pride, majesty, beautiful Names and sublime attributes, and His perfect Words which no one can encompass. No human being knows their essence or nature, or how many they are. As the Leader of Mankind and Seal of the Messengers said:
( I cannot praise You enough; You are as You have praised yourself. ) Allah says:
( And if all the trees on the earth were pens and the sea, with seven seas behind it to add to its, yet the Words of Allah would not be exhausted. )
meaning, even if all the trees on earth were made into pens and the sea was made into ink, and topped up with seven more like it, and they were used to write the Words of Allah showing His might, attributes and majesty, the pens would break and the ink would run dry, even if more were brought. The number seven is used to indicate a large amount, it is not to be taken literally or to be understood as referring to the seven oceans of the world, as was suggested by those who took this idea from Israelite stories, which we neither believe nor reject. As Allah says elsewhere:
(Say: "If the sea were ink for the Words of my Lord, surely, the sea would be exhausted before the Words of my Lord would be finished, even if We brought like it for its aid.'' ) (18:109). The words
(like it)/b] do not mean merely another one, but another like it and another and another and another, etc., because there is no limit to the signs and Words of Allah.
( Verily, Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise. ) means, He is All-Mighty and has subjugated all things to His will, so nothing can prevent what He wills, and none can oppose or put back His decision. He is All-Wise in His creation, commands, Words, actions, Laws and all His affairs.
Brother
We must be sincere when we try to find fault with Quran. Out of context or partial translations or wrong translation or statement without proof or comments by anybody or by paid retainers will not do.
BTW enemies of Islam within and without will never rest attacking Quran.
We all will have to wait for "Bolta Quran" to speak and reveal those additional 10 chapters. I personally think it will never happen, and you probably will say "Insha Ali-Allah".
I do not think I need to keep discussing this issue so lets end it.
Take care
What difference does it make to an Ismaili
a.Whether the Quran is complete or not?
b.Whether is it distorted or not?
c.Whether the verses are in sequence or not?.
The difference and the damages are seen in over billion near disaster Shariatis.
We have our Bolta Quran,the Farmans,Qasidas and Ginans which is reflecting in Ismailis of Today.
There is no point in debating what could have happened 1400 years back.
The ROT started with the person named by 'U' and got worsened with
root of disaster quakes who gave Tafseer at Zahiri level down the ages.
the result is there for all to see.
Somebody told the truth 'that Quran is not at fault',I also agree to that ,it rotted because it
got explained BY the ROOT N CORE DISASTERS OF QUAKES.
A student is as GOOD as its syllabus and teachers.
Same is the case is living disaster prone,who look lost n frustrated who r over 1.2 Billion of them.
Shairati saw the beard n head gear (topi) of the Prophet While the Haqiqati saw the Mairfat ( Allah speaking out as first person out of Prophet) and the it's 7 th intellect level.
Shariati are fighting the Lost cause,even some on this site maybe on payroll n material of Wahabis.
Things will get from BAD to Worse for them in times to come
and what could come out of Ismailis in future( in words of Imam SMS 'mojija momin karse'). I will write on that in a clean posting.
a.Whether the Quran is complete or not?
b.Whether is it distorted or not?
c.Whether the verses are in sequence or not?.
The difference and the damages are seen in over billion near disaster Shariatis.
We have our Bolta Quran,the Farmans,Qasidas and Ginans which is reflecting in Ismailis of Today.
There is no point in debating what could have happened 1400 years back.
The ROT started with the person named by 'U' and got worsened with
root of disaster quakes who gave Tafseer at Zahiri level down the ages.
the result is there for all to see.
Somebody told the truth 'that Quran is not at fault',I also agree to that ,it rotted because it
got explained BY the ROOT N CORE DISASTERS OF QUAKES.
A student is as GOOD as its syllabus and teachers.
Same is the case is living disaster prone,who look lost n frustrated who r over 1.2 Billion of them.
Shairati saw the beard n head gear (topi) of the Prophet While the Haqiqati saw the Mairfat ( Allah speaking out as first person out of Prophet) and the it's 7 th intellect level.
Shariati are fighting the Lost cause,even some on this site maybe on payroll n material of Wahabis.
Things will get from BAD to Worse for them in times to come
and what could come out of Ismailis in future( in words of Imam SMS 'mojija momin karse'). I will write on that in a clean posting.
zznoor wrote:It is known fact that Quran text is not in sequence as revealed to prophet.
Nobody for last 1400+ years possesses or presented Quran as revealed in sequence
a_27826 wrote:So you agree the compilers (commission of four people set up by Uthman) couldn’t place the collected verses in its right chronological sequence?
so what was it ?zznoor wrote:Far from it
There is ample evidence that companions wrote revelation on whatever writing material available. It is contention of majority of Muslims that Angel Gibraeal rehearsed Quran with Prophet every year and twice on last year.
1. the Quran that was collected by Zaid bin Thabit was in its right chronological sequence and then mix up while compiling it ?
or
2. the Quran that was collected by Zaid bin Thabit was not in its right chronological sequence and hence the compilation was not in its right chronological sequence ?
but as you said
zznoor wrote:I do not think I need to keep discussing this issue so lets end it.
Take care
[/quote]
This chapter need to be closed so far non of participates have solid reason to prove that they are true!!. Pouring Quranic ayas does not mean that they are right!, so question remain the same whether Quran is complete or not?
But be honest with you many (decent, not kaatar Sunny) Shia and Sunny scholars ( not orthodox) are also agrees that, it has been changed, omitted, deleted many many times after death of Prophet Mohammed (s.a.), so Quran is not complete as revealed first on Prophet.
And, I will add one more thing that current Noble Quran does not have answer of many modern arising questions, that is for sure.
But be honest with you many (decent, not kaatar Sunny) Shia and Sunny scholars ( not orthodox) are also agrees that, it has been changed, omitted, deleted many many times after death of Prophet Mohammed (s.a.), so Quran is not complete as revealed first on Prophet.
And, I will add one more thing that current Noble Quran does not have answer of many modern arising questions, that is for sure.
with due respect, the forum cant be closed simply u believe thatagakhani wrote:This chapter need to be closed so far non of participates have solid reason to prove that they are true!!. Pouring Quranic ayas does not mean that they are right!, so question remain the same whether Quran is complete or not?
But be honest with you many (decent, not kaatar Sunny) Shia and Sunny scholars ( not orthodox) are also agrees that, it has been changed, omitted, deleted many many times after death of Prophet Mohammed (s.a.), so Quran is not complete as revealed first on Prophet.
And, I will add one more thing that current Noble Quran does not have answer of many modern arising questions, that is for sure.
u have to prove that statement of yours by historical evidence.agakhani wrote:Quran has been changed, omitted, deleted many many times after death of Prophet Mohammed (s.a.), so Quran is not complete as revealed first on Prophet
its good that we have a resident "suni" in this forum to give his views, so that we can understand why they are committing shirk (according to us) like "considering cube house in mecca as an intersection with Allah, worshipping the graves, invoking jinns, who are nothing but creatures of Allah
but, then i wish we had more of so called "sunnis". this one we have, just simply gives us a site addresses to the questions we have.
sir.
what kind evident are you looking?. there are still many books available in market which clearly point out that quran has been changed and these books are written by well known Sunny and Shia scholars.
The information you have received Sunny readers from this forum is not new for many readers incuding myself it may be new for some but not all.
The reason of my request to close this thread was I do not see any new information. it is repeat again and again, and there are many interestIng topics which needs more discussion rather then this old unsolved questions from centuries ; whether quran is complete or not? Please do not take it personal, I donot have anything against you or any other reader in this forum.
what kind evident are you looking?. there are still many books available in market which clearly point out that quran has been changed and these books are written by well known Sunny and Shia scholars.
The information you have received Sunny readers from this forum is not new for many readers incuding myself it may be new for some but not all.
The reason of my request to close this thread was I do not see any new information. it is repeat again and again, and there are many interestIng topics which needs more discussion rather then this old unsolved questions from centuries ; whether quran is complete or not? Please do not take it personal, I donot have anything against you or any other reader in this forum.
ok.... i see your point.agakhani wrote:sir.
what kind evident are you looking?. there are still many books available in market which clearly point out that quran has been changed and these books are written by well known Sunny and Shia scholars.
The information you have received Sunny readers from this forum is not new for many readers incuding myself it may be new for some but not all.
The reason of my request to close this thread was I do not see any new information. it is repeat again and again, and there are many interestIng topics which needs more discussion rather then this old unsolved questions from centuries ; whether quran is complete or not? Please do not take it personal, I donot have anything against you or any other reader in this forum.
What better proof than "Bolta Quran No. 1". By not changing UQuran he approved it.what kind evident are you looking?. there are still many books available in market which clearly point out that quran has been changed and these books are written by well known Sunny and Shia scholars.
The information you have received Sunny readers from this forum is not new for many readers incuding myself it may be new for some but not all.
"Bolta Quran No. 2 Thru 47". has not published their version.
"Bolta Quran No. 48". Did say that he has 10 additional chapters and will publish it.
He died without publishing it. God knows he had 10 chapters or not.
"Bolta Quran No. 49". has made no statement dishing U Quran. Credit for his forsight.