Ka'baa's Black Stone was carried away?

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:13 am

Touching and kissing feet of another human being (even of Imams) is no no for them.

zznoor,
Touching and kissing feet of another Haman being or obeisance by lying prostrate on the ground same like Hindus are doing or join hands in salutation or supplication, these all acts shows the respect towards the person whom they respect most, so non- Islami Muslims should not hostility for that, as long as the person who is doing all of these should remember that the person whom he touching and kissing is not God, and if he think that he is Allah or God and doing all of these things then it is against Islamic principals and it is shirk.
By the way, these kind practices described above are in almost every religions, it is in Christianity, it is in Jewish, it is in Hinduism, Buddhism and many more.

There is one proverb in Indo -Pak languages that:-
'Ma ke charno me Jannat hai',
من کے پاومے جنّت ہے
It doesn't mean that heaven is really in the feet of mother, same way our Imam is every thing for us, if you consider him as a ordinary man then he is ordinary man , if you consider him as a Imam then he is Imam for you and if you consider him as a wealthy man and horse racer then he is wealthy man and horse racer for you, and if you consider him as a ..... then he is that, it all depends how you consider him.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:15 pm

Shiraz Sir, It is not hidden any more in history, history is loaded about Shikh's hatred towards Muslims, but since you accused me third time that I am spreading hatred towards other religions, (which I don't, you wont fin in my any posts) then I should say helplessly that yes, they were big hatred towards Muslim and history is solid proof for that, history is crying loudly and showing that how good Guru Nanak, Guru Govind singh and other gurus were towards Muslims and Hindus?, I can refer you as many books as you want, read it and decide by your self and be your own judge rather then read in Wikipedia and goggling in internet..... but below is my own experience with one of my costumer :-
Once I asked a question to one my Shikh costumer, why are you growing your beard and hair? keep Kripal, and Kanga with you all time , and wear bandage and turban? first he hesitate to answer me but when I forced him and told him that I will not mind just tell me the true reason behind it, then he told me that all Shikhs are taking oath to kill all the Muslims on this earth and before this not happen all Shikhs including their so called Sahebjis also will keep doing this; i.e. keep growing beard and hair, keep kripal with them, and wear bandage and turban e.t.c..

What rubbish !!....The majority of sikh brothers carry sword to protect themselves not just from muslims but any threat period !

Just because your sikh friend does not have enough info about his own faith you cannot blame the whole sikh community for his stupidity.

Majority of sikhs living in the west may not like to be friends with muslims and this is because after 9/11 most of the sikhs were targeted by the mobs in what we call HATE CRIME....Few of our sikh brothers even lost their lives..They even have to go against their customs i.e cut their hair, shave their beard so that they shouldnt be mistaken as a muslim.

But those who are educated know very well that its not muslims whom they should be scared of !...It the cheap politics of the west and its allies to cause this hate between the islamic faith and other faiths.

That means they can say any thing towards Muslims, they can takes oath to vanish all Muslims ( which will never happen) on this earth, there is no problem for that but when we say something towards them then hatred comes !!??

They might even plan to make obama a sardar will you believe that ??...Just like we have few fundamentalist in our faith they have some in their faith....that doesnt mean that all sikhs are the same

During the partition if you remember those who were trying to migrate to pakistan were targeted [that included many sikhs as well !!!]....Do you think that was caused by religious issues ??? NO !!!....that was caused because of the political rift among two sister countries !

Iska matalab to yeh hua ki "unka khoon khoon hai aur hamara khoon pani"
انکا خون خون اور ہمارا خون پانی they can say any thing but we can't!!! I would not have told the above story and criticized them if you were not accused ( this is not first time but this one is third time) me or made helpless that I am spreading hatred, now this is my challenge to you find my any post in which I had criticized any religion not only Shikh but any religion Hindu, Christian, Jews, Buddhist and if you find please let me know this is my challenge brother Shiraz to you.

Khoon kisika bhi ho agakhani bhai, khoon par kisi ka naam nahi likha hota aur naa hi musalmaan ka khoon sikh ke khoon se zyada laal hota hai....I hope you get this !!!

I dont have to search any more....just look at your previous post where you attacked sikh community saying they hate musalmaans, I have sikh friends and I wanna tell you that they dont hate me nor treat me like an outsider.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:54 pm

.The majority of sikh brothers carry sword to protect themselves not just from muslims but any threat period !

Why are you, me or other peoples on this earth not carry sword with us? Does we don't need to protect ourselves? but only Sikh needs to protect themselves !! what a good excuse from you brother, the sword they keep with them is not for their protection but there is an another reason for that and I already gave you the reason.

During the partition if you remember those who were trying to migrate to pakistan were targeted

Yes I heard about partition, and I also read many books written by Indian and Pakistani authors about that bloody and shameful event in India -Pakistan's history but let me correct you here that not only Sikhs were killed by Muslims in that riots but many Muslims and Hindus were also killed by Shikhs, you probably heard about that train which was burned by (?) and that train was coming from Shikh ocuupied province to India and migrates were Muslims and Hindus, I think you get my point.

Khoon kisika bhi ho agakhani bhai, khoon par kisi ka naam nahi likha hota aur naa hi musalmaan ka khoon sikh ke khoon se zyada laal hota hai....I hope you get this

That is absolutely right, but AAPKA KHOON KHOON HAI AOUR HAMARA KHOON PANI? is very famous dialogue from a Hindi movie 'YAHUDI" spoken by Shohrab Modi.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:20 pm

Why are you, me or other peoples on this earth not carry sword with us? Does we don't need to protect ourselves? but only Sikh needs to protect themselves !! what a good excuse from you brother, the sword they keep with them is not for their protection but there is an another reason for that and I already gave you the reason.

There are many muslims and non muslims here in US who carry gun with them ....By law you cannot hand carry the gun at a public site but you can carry that along with you in a car and so on....so yes, protecting ourselves is our right and there is nothing wrong with that !!

If you go to hyderabad, INDIA....and if you go to old city, majority of people living there muslim or non muslim carry sword with them because that area is a sensitive area which is violent at times due to political issues that are ignited by religious leaders....but if you travel in main city you might not find any such thing....when you're oppressed there are only 2 options i.e ....to surrender, get beaten up or be slayed OR...fight back or to protect yourself

Most of us living here in US might think we are safe but vast majority of people living in couties carry guns with them because if something goes wrong in their neighborhood they cannot wait for cops to come and catch the culprit and thats the reason why by law if somebody trespasses somebodies property in US the owner of that property can sue or even in worst case fire at the person thinking he/she could harm them

Yes I heard about partition, and I also read many books written by Indian and Pakistani authors about that bloody and shameful event in India -Pakistan's history but let me correct you here that not only Sikhs were killed by Muslims in that riots but many Muslims and Hindus were also killed by Shikhs, you probably heard about that train which was burned by (?) and that train was coming from Lahore to India and migrates were Muslims and Hindus.

What happened 60 years ago doesnt bother me....they died not in vain but so that you and me can live in peace...there is no peace until you fight for it and thats what our ancestors did

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:19 am

.they died not in vain but so that you and me can live in peace...there is no peace until you fight for it and thats what our ancestors did

Live in peace (!??)
There was no peace on this earth before, there is no peace on this earth right now, mankind always fighting with each other starting prehistorical and and since ancient time, fighting is humans nature and humans are made that way, by the way after killing innocent peoples if you think we are living in peace then 'LAANAT' towards that kind peace.

There are many muslims and non muslims here in US who carry gun with them ..

Are you carry gun with you? just kidding, Idon't

you may be because Houston is criminal city in USA in comparison with other cities, now ask your self theses questions ; will you kill some one who is innocent and doing nothing wrong to you? have you took oath to kill some one? are you keeping gun/sword with you because your religion tell you to do so? and I know your answers will no, but the sect (S) we are taking about their intention and reasons are different then you, me and the peoples who carry gun or swords with them to protect themselve. I lived 25 years in India but I only show one tribe who carry big nife call (Chhuro) with them all the time but not all the peoples from India.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:00 pm

Live in peace (!??)
There was no peace on this earth before, there is no peace on this earth right now, mankind always fighting with each other starting prehistorical and and since ancient time, fighting is humans nature and humans are made that way, by the way after killing innocent peoples if you think we are living in peace then 'LAANAT' towards that kind peace.

There is no peace until we have people who are always fear mongering...They should try to go beyond that and have a pluralistic view of things surrounding them

Peace does not come from accusing other religions or sects [for ex: Shri guru nanak sahebji]

Peace does not come from saying onething and doing something else [for ex: drinking alcohol]

Etc Etc...

Are you carry gun with you? just kidding, Idon't you may be because Houston is criminal city in USA in comparison with other cities, now ask your self theses questions ; will you kill some one who is innocent and doing nothing wrong to you? have you took oath to kill some one? are you keeping gun/sword with you because your religion tell you to do so? and I know your answers will no, but the sect (S) we are taking about their intention and reasons are different then you, me and the peoples who carry gun or swords with them to protect themselve. I lived 25 years in India but I only show one tribe who carry big nife call (Chhuro) with them all the time but not all the peoples from India.

No, I dont carry the gun with me because I dont feel threatened but if in future I feel like then I would get a thing or two to defend myself.

Now killing someone who is innocent ? ...Well how do you define innocent ?? Somebody who comes in my house to rob something or someone who is ultra poor or did nothing wrong ??

Majority of muslim fundamentalist wanna wipe of the western country but does that mean all muslims are the same ??....And what is the reason why they wanna kill innocent civilians ??...........Answer !!...Well how would you feel if somebody march in your house and kill your family ?? ...You might try to take the revenge right ?

Similarly in the past their might be certain sikh tribe that might be threatened and thats the reason why your friend thinks that every other muslim is a blood thirsty killer.

You cannot judge the whole community for the action of some dumb ****

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:03 pm

You cannot judge the whole community for the action of some dumb ****

If I heard that from only one person then I would have thought he is telling in jealousy or he is lying but I heard this facts not only from one or two persons but from many persons, also in India, in Pakistan and here in USA ; means that something is cooking.

Peace does not come from accusing other religions or sects [for ex: Shri guru nanak sahebji]

I agree with that but I didn't say that we are living in peace matter of fact "peace" is your word read your above post, you wrote that killing some peoples is ok that way we can live in peace by the way I don't think peace will be ever come on this earth not for a single moment, history reveal that there was no peace on the earth in past and I think there will be no peace in future too, this is not only my belief and many peoples also believes too, there are 99% problems and difficulties on this earth and only 1% happiness and peace.

Majority of muslim fundamentalist wanna wipe of the western country but does that mean all muslims are the same ??.

Of course not, but do you think wipe off/out to all western counties is possible? I don't think so, it is not possible either for Muslims or Shikh or other sects who claiming that they will wipe out so and so tribe, (Christian and Jews always boasting that one of day they will wipe out all Muslims from Palestine and from this earth).
It may possible that in 3rd world war many peoples will lose their lives around the world and big cities may have to suffer but wipe out completely to specific tribe ( "Muslims' in your case) is not possible either for Shikhs or Christian or Jews. but they are still boasitng that they will one of days which is totally lie.

MR-FORGET · Post by **MR-FORGET** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:55 am

Brother,

What happened 60 years ago doesnt bother me....they died not in vain but so that you and me can live in peace...there is no peace until you fight for it and thats what our ancestors did

I don't agree with your above quote;
It may not bother you, but it still bothers many peoples from Punjab state, if you go Punjab state either one from India or Pakistan then you can still see hatred towards each other they always cussing each other and always like to kill each other , why? because of that bloody partition, and I don't blame them because their ancestors lost their lives in that shameful event.
Do you think they are live in peace? do you think that fight doesn't bother them? of course that fights during partition still bother them so does many peace lover around the world.
BTW, Just carious which religion are you follow? it is not matter to me but some time you favor Sunny sect, some time you favor Shikh sect, I read your some older posts in which you always criticized Ismailism and Agakhan. Your knowledge in Quranic ayahs shows me that you are most influenced with Sunny sect, I hope I am wrong but this is what I think.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:35 pm

I don't agree with your above quote;

You dont have to !!

It may not bother you, but it still bothers many peoples from Punjab state, if you go Punjab state either one from India or Pakistan then you can still see hatred towards each other they always cussing each other and always like to kill each other , why? because of that bloody partition, and I don't blame them because their ancestors lost their lives in that shameful event.

It bothers very few of em...But not to general public in India...I sympathise with those who loved their dear ones but we cannot punish someone for what happened 60 years ago...so yes those who still have this hatred are fools who are always jealous of their neighbors [be it muslim, hindu or sikh]

They cuss each other out because its their ignorance that speaks for em...Majority of sikhs and muslims do not believe in violence and resist it.

It is a shameful event but there are other incidents that happened in the past that has caused shame to our country , what about it ???

Do you think they are live in peace? do you think that fight doesn't bother them? of course that fights during partition still bother them so does many peace lover around the world.

It might bother some of them but majority of people have gotten over it and are living in peace today.

Peace according to me is not the arrival of mehdi or the holy firman of imams....peace for me is the way of life, the satisfaction one gets by doing things daily, meeting different people...making new friends of different background, being calm and living a decent life and thanking allah[swt] for bestowing it on you ...that is real peace

BTW, Just carious which religion are you follow? it is not matter to me but some time you favor Sunny sect, some time you favor Shikh sect, I read your some older posts in which you always criticized Ismailism and Agakhan. Your knowledge in Quranic ayahs shows me that you are most influenced with Sunny sect, I hope I am wrong but this is what I think.

Bro, this is not the religious issue but more of a political issue so lets just focus on that ...I follow all the religions and all the religions follow me

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:13 am

I follow all the religions and all the religions follow me

And Shiraz you make your own religion whenever need arises and whenever you want to, this is true right?

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:07 pm

And Shiraz you make your own religion whenever need arises and whenever you want to, this is true right?

Thats correct !!...But alcohol is still prohibited in my religion

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:21 am

Thats correct

Good to know that you make your own religion whenever need arises and whenever you want to but can you tell us how often you change your religion?

But alcohol is still prohibited in my religion

Absolutely alcohol is prohibited in many religion including Islam and so does "eating haram meat" eating haram meat it is still prohibited in Islam and other religion too, this is a just courtesy reminder to you!!!

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:45 pm

Good to know that you make your own religion whenever need arises and whenever you want to but can you tell us how often you change your religion?

My religion is fluid , hence it always mixes up well with other sister branches and different faith unlike some who'z is more like a GASEOUS form = PUFFffff and gone

Absolutely alcohol is prohibited in many religion including Islam and so does "eating haram meat" eating haram meat it is still prohibited in Islam and other religion too, this is a just courtesy reminder to you!!!

Wow !!!....It gives me utmost satisfaction to hear this from you agakhani bhai

Lets have a whole new debate on this one agakhani bhai....is your email address the same ?

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:25 am

Lets have a whole new debate on this one agakhani bhai....is your email address the same ?

No, I change my e-mail address as you change your posts

A true confession:-
I am not capable to debate with genius scholar like you and others in this forum, because when it comes debate about any religion then I scare too much because I don't have enough knowledge, the reason is simple I started to read and research about all religions two-three years ago before that I had no interest in any religious literature except the faith in Allah and Ismailism, so basically I am dumb in any kind debate and specially some one challenge me because I always lost many debate in past and I am still losing debate with my wife everyday in all debate (don't tell any body OK)

this is my true confession bro, but I will participate and give my two cents inputs whenever it possible as per my little ability if debate start.
One suggestion:-
If we debate in this forum it will be more beneficiary for other readers too so that they can also participate.
Here is my new e-mail if you still want to debate privately but as I told you I am going to lose; agakhani underscore 78660 at yahoo dot com. so let start.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:05 pm

No, I change my e-mail address as you change your posts

Hahaha, good one

... Thank god you noticed that, I have to edit my post because it might look way too offensive and I dont wanna hurt the most inspiring contributor on ismaili.net = you

A true confession:-
I am not capable to debate with genius scholar like you and others in this forum, because when it comes debate about any religion then I scare too much because I don't have enough knowledge, the reason is simple I started to read and research about all religions two-three years ago before that I had no interest in any religious literature except the faith in Allah and Ismailism, so basically I am dumb in any kind debate and specially some one challenge me because I always lost many debate in past and I am still losing debate with my wife everyday in all debate (don't tell any body OK) this is my true confession bro, but I will participate and give my two cents inputs whenever it possible as per my little ability if debate start.
One suggestion:-
If we debate in this forum it will be more beneficiary for other readers too so that they can also participate.
Here is my new e-mail if you still want to debate privately but as I told you I am going to lose; agakhani underscore 78660 at yahoo dot com. so let start.

Are nai bhai , Its not that kind of debate that I had with zina khan...I just wanted to hear your views about haram n halal in the light of holy quran , thats it !!

But I have to appreciate your honesty agakhani bhai...its not about winning or losing ...its all about sharing and you're a winner by far in my eyes because you're not just true to other viewers, you're true to yourself

Lets just keeping on posting and sharing, Yaa Ali Madad

MR-FORGET · Post by **MR-FORGET** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:08 pm

Peace according to me is not the arrival of mehdi or the holy firman of imams....peace for me is the way of life, the satisfaction one gets by doing things daily, meeting different people...making new friends of different background, being calm and living a decent life and thanking allah[swt] for bestowing it on you ...that is real peace

So, you are saying that there is no peace in this world? but peace is our own state of mind!
Sorry again, I don't agree with you;because there are many peoples from different religions who are waiting and hoping for a long time that one of days peace will be come back on this earth when Imam Mehdi, Jesus Christ or Nakalanki avatar will come back.
Are they just wasting their time or are they just thinking wrong? because as per your above quote peace will be not come on the arrival of Imam Mehdi? any answer?

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:44 pm

So, you are saying that there is no peace in this world? but peace is our own state of mind!

Yes !!!....Peace can be achieved in two ways, i.e peace through material way ie agakhan and his work may be the best example here or...peace to spiritual process i.e to control your own self

I think it was Imam Ali[as] who used to emphasize on controling ones nafs and he was darn right !!

Human Being's brain is regarded as the temple for all the good and bad ideas are generated or transmitted through brain only !!

So yes ....I still stand beside my comment

Sorry again, I don't agree with you;because there are many peoples from different religions who are waiting and hoping for a long time that one of days peace will be come back on this earth when Imam Mehdi, Jesus Christ or Nakalanki avatar will come back.

What about those who already died without even knowing what is to come in the near future ?? What if you die today and imam mehdi arrives tomorrow ??

You are entitled to your opinion and Im ok with that but I personally dont think anybody is gonna come back.....the only person or group that are helping us and ensuring our safety and safety of our planet are those who are highly spiritually and technologically advanced = Our space brothers and sisters

Are they just wasting their time or are they just thinking wrong? because as per your above quote peace will be not come on the arrival of Imam Mehdi? any answer?

Peace is not somebodies jaagir.....peace is every individuals right and it order to achieve that peace an individual has to struggle which may be material or spiritual sometimes.

Wasting their time? May be !!!....Are they wrong ?? May be !!....Am I wrong?? May be !!

To each his own

a_27826 · Post by **a_27826** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:03 pm

zznoor wrote:
Admin wrote:I don't know why the argument that according to "Ismailis", God is Everywhere.. I thought this is common to all the religion and does the Quran not say that whatever direction you turn, He is everywhere?
correct

but a muslim is required to face Kaaba when offering ritual Namaaz.

[Shakir Quran 2:150] And from whatsoever place you come forth, turn your face towards the Sacred Mosque; and wherever you are turn your faces towards it, so that people shall have no accusation against you, except such of them as are unjust; so do not fear them, and fear Me, that I may complete My favor on you and that you may walk on the right course.

"To God belongs the East and West. Withersoever ye turn, there is the presence Of God. For God is all-pervading, All-Knowing (2. 115)

"From whencesoever thou startest forth, turn thy face in the Direction of the Sacred Mosque. That is, indeed, the truth From thy Lord. And God is not unmindful of what you do" ( 2: 149)

The verse ( 2: 149) is not stipulated for prayer purposes. It doesn't have the word "salat," which means prayer, anywhere.

[/b]

Post by **Admin** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:28 pm

zznoor wrote:
but a muslim is required to face Kaaba when offering ritual Namaaz.

The problem with some Muslim is that they want Islam to become obsolete and a religion of the past. They think the world is flat and there is only one direction for Qaba.

This is why half of the masjid in North America have the Qible towards North East and the other half towards South East, depending of the use of a round map or a flat map.

They have no clue of the creation of Allah and its vastness and when we will travel to far galaxies, their Islam will be obsolete because they will not know where to turn for prayer while our Islam is the religion of the present and of the future.... we will always know where to turn towards.

a_27826 · Post by **a_27826** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:27 am

a_27826 wrote:
zznoor wrote:
Admin wrote:I don't know why the argument that according to "Ismailis", God is Everywhere.. I thought this is common to all the religion and does the Quran not say that whatever direction you turn, He is everywhere?
correct

but a muslim is required to face Kaaba when offering ritual Namaaz.

[Shakir Quran 2:150] And from whatsoever place you come forth, turn your face towards the Sacred Mosque; and wherever you are turn your faces towards it, so that people shall have no accusation against you, except such of them as are unjust; so do not fear them, and fear Me, that I may complete My favor on you and that you may walk on the right course.

"To God belongs the East and West. Withersoever ye turn, there is the presence Of God. For God is all-pervading, All-Knowing (2. 115)

"From whencesoever thou startest forth, turn thy face in the Direction of the Sacred Mosque. That is, indeed, the truth From thy Lord. And God is not unmindful of what you do" ( 2: 149)

The verse ( 2: 149) is not stipulated for prayer purposes. It doesn't have the word "salat," which means prayer, anywhere.

[/b]

to ZZNOOR:

I meant this as a question.

regarding your statement "but a muslim is required to face Kaaba when offering ritual Namaaz." and you quoted Quran 2:149 to support your statement.

But 2:149 is not taking about prayers at all (correct me if i am wrong, as i dont know arabic and read translations only).

The Heifer (Al-Baqarah)
2:149 And from whatsoever place you come forth, turn your face towards the Sacred Mosque; and surely it is the very truth from your Lord, and Allah is not at all heedless of what you do.

or maybe you mistyped the ayat/verse number, if so, then post the correct one.

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:01 am

a_27826 wrote:
a_27826 wrote:
to ZZNOOR:

I meant this as a question.

regarding your statement "but a muslim is required to face Kaaba when offering ritual Namaaz." and you quoted Quran 2:149 to support your statement.

But 2:149 is not taking about prayers at all (correct me if i am wrong, as i dont know arabic and read translations only).

or maybe you mistyped the ayat/verse number, if so, then post the correct one.
Please elaborate
What is your thought on 2:147-149. Why are Muslims asked to face Kaaba?
Why do majority of Practicing Muslims insist on facing Kaaba while praying?
Why new Jamaatkhana are built with direction to Kaaba in mind?
I will post Tafseer of 2:148-150 later
SAK

Post by **Admin** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:20 pm

Again my question that you are perpetualy dodging:

In North America, half of the Masjid Qibla is towards North East (the way planes travel, shortedt way) and the other half turn toward South East (flat map of the earth).

ZZNOOR, Which Muslim category are you? North East or South East?

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:47 pm

Admin Bhai, ASAK.
I live in large city in NE America. I am also well versed in Global coordinate calculations. Given the coordinates of location and Kaaba coordinates I can give you direction to Kaaba. Where I am it is about N 60 degree E. I happen to frequent about 10 Masjids and they all face north east. Once I happened to talk to one ethnic masjid whose promotors obtained direction from al Azar sheikh and they were praying in SE direction. We were able to correct their thinking by showing model of Globe and showing direction by stretching string between Kaaba and their city.

It is not that they believe that world is flat but lack of knowledge of coordinate geometry and they and Sheikh were confused by the fact that Kaaba's latitude is lower then subject city.

BTW most of practicing Muslims have Smart Phones now and majority of them have Quran, prayer time and direction software.
My I phone has 'I pray' application which gives me prayer time and direction at touch of screen. I also have Casio prayer watch with qibla direction pointer.

Please Read
Qibla - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qibla

BTW I am a moderate practicing Muslim and not a salafi, Wahabi or Taliban type. I am not into pontificating on your site but if you object then I will stop participating.

Please let me know which Masjid in Mass, NH, RI or Main has SE qibla and I will professionally advice them of correct NE direction without any charge. For majority of practicing Sunni and Shia Muslims, ritual Salat or Namaz in proper direction is a must. They all pray 5 prayers, some separately and some combine them into 3, and it does not matter where they position their hands.

Post by **Admin** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:11 pm

So you have decided with some Mullas what is your thruth and you have convinced one more Mulah to folow your truth. What an achievement! Congratulation.

Now why don't you also consult with the same Mulahs as to the Qiblah once we land on the planete Vega of the nearest Galaxy.

Now let me tell you something. There are many directions that all lead to the Qibla which is not necessary some black stone in Arabia. {which Qibla were your Mullah praying when the black stone was removed from Mecqua and transported in some remote place?

Acceptance of the intention of all of these people would be the first sign of acceptance of Pluralism, Diversity and of Islam itself.

To even suggest "free consulting" to teach people where the Qibla is would be in my honest opinion, the highest form of arrogance. And arrogance is not Islam. Tolerance is Islam.

No compulsion in Faith. Basic of Islam.

Admin

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:59 pm

zznoor wrote:
Please elaborate
What is your thought on 2:147-149. Why are Muslims asked to face Kaaba?
Why do majority of Practicing Muslims insist on facing Kaaba while praying?
Why new Jamaatkhana are built with direction to Kaaba in mind?
I will post Tafseer of 2:148-150 later
SAK

There have been extensive discussions on the points you have raised under the thread:

Rites and Ceremonies --> Facing Kaba'a

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... 58&start=0

a_27826 · Post by **a_27826** » Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:20 am

zznoor wrote:
a_27826 wrote:
a_27826 wrote:
to ZZNOOR:

I meant this as a question.

regarding your statement "but a muslim is required to face Kaaba when offering ritual Namaaz." and you quoted Quran 2:149 to support your statement.

But 2:149 is not taking about prayers at all (correct me if i am wrong, as i dont know arabic and read translations only).

or maybe you mistyped the ayat/verse number, if so, then post the correct one.
Please elaborate
What is your thought on 2:147-149. Why are Muslims asked to face Kaaba?
Why do majority of Practicing Muslims insist on facing Kaaba while praying?
Why new Jamaatkhana are built with direction to Kaaba in mind?
I will post Tafseer of 2:148-150 later
SAK
to ZZNOOR:

I not denying the fact muslims do face Kaaba while praying and Jamat Khanas do face the Kaaba.

But there must be an a verse telling Muslims to do it.
Otherwise why would Muslims face Kaaba ?

For an answer to the above question, you provided 2:149-150.

If that is so, then my understanding of 2:149-150 is wrong.

According my understanding of 2:149-150 is telling Muslims to face al-masjid al-haraam whenever they start going anywhere.

please tell how am i wrong in my understanding of 2:149-150 so that i dont make similar misunderstanding to the other verses of the Holy Quran.

The Heifer (Al-Baqarah)

2:149 And from whatsoever place you come forth, turn your face towards al-masjid al-haraam; and surely it is the very truth from your Lord, and Allah is not at all heedless of what you do.

2:150 And from whatsoever place you come forth, turn your face towards al-masjid al-haraam; and wherever you are turn your faces towards it, so that people shall have no accusation against you, except such of them as are unjust; so do not fear them, and fear Me, that I may complete My favor on you and that you may walk on the right course.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:57 pm

To ZZNoor,

Will you please kindly let me know :-

1, Where, I mean which direction Muslims were praying Namaz/Salat when the "Black Stone had been carried away by enemies?

2, Do you know that, even after Prophet Mohammed's declaration of Islam and declaration of his prophecy and till the Hizara to Madina, I think almost 15 years ( Fifteen ) years, all Muslims were praying their Namaz facing Jerusalem? why not Kaba?

Can you please answer these two question sister? before I involve again in your strange and inappropriate questions!! which questions are already discussed in this thread and else where as well somewhere in this website.

a_27826 · Post by **a_27826** » Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:44 pm

agakhani wrote:To ZZNoor,

Will you please kindly let me know :-

1, Where, I mean which direction Muslims were praying Namaz/Salat when the "Black Stone had been carried away by enemies?

2, Do you know that, even after Prophet Mohammed's declaration of Islam and declaration of his prophecy and till the Hizara to Madina, I think almost 15 years ( Fifteen ) years, all Muslims were praying their Namaz facing Jerusalem? why not Kaba?

Can you please answer these two question sister? before I involve again in your strange and inappropriate questions!! which questions are already discussed in this thread and else where as well somewhere in this website.

allow me to answer your questions to ZZNOOR.

But ZZNOOR should answer the questions as well, as his answers might be different than mine.

In this way we can learn more from each other.

Answers:

1. al-masjid al-haraam

al-masjid al-haraam was the direction Muslims were facing when offering Salat when the "Black Stone" had been carried away by enemies.

2. The change of qibla was decided by Prophet Mohamed, who was the "Ulil Amr" of that time.

changes made by "Ulil Amr" of a time are not bidda. They are authorized by Allah.

You can't question decisions made by "Ulil Amr" of the time.

refer The Heifer (Al-Baqarah)

2:142 The fools among the people will say: What has turned them from their qiblah which they had? Say: The East and the West belong only to Allah; He guides whom He likes to the right path.

tret · Post by **tret** » Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:16 pm

a_27826 wrote:
agakhani wrote: changes made by "Ulil Amr" of a time are not bidda. They are authorized by Allah.
.
Who's the Ulil Amr today? This should be explained to ZZNOOR

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:20 pm

a_27826, thank you for contributing on this forum and welcome

I have a quick question for you which is very simple....

For what purpose is the black stone placed inside the holy kaaba ??...Is it of any importance ??