hey.!
iwant the whole history about the 3 karans plz answer me and make ur commentssss soon plzzzz....
NAME OF 3 KARANS
To Momin bro wrote:-,
iwant the whole history about the 3 karans plz answer me and make ur commentssss soon plzzzz....
I personally asked same question to Rai Abu Ali Saheb in Austin, TX, he told me brief history of evolution and told me what is 3 Karans, but it was very short info so, I started to goggled around and started to find in evolution books, unfortunately I couldn't find many evolution theory books because there are not many, whichever I found were not matching with Ismaili ginanic literature, for an instant example "Karans" are not mentioned in Hindu theory, they have mentioned "Manvantar" instead, the meaning of Manvantar is distance between two Manu( Hindu believes that Manu was the first man on earth and after him human being started and therefore human being is called "Manavi" after Manu same like "AADMI CALLED AFTER AADAM )but "Manvantar" is not mentioned in our Ginanic literature, therefore I suggest you to read 'Muman Chaitmani' and other ginans specially written by Pir Sadardin and listen waezes of Rai Saheb he also mentioned 4 Kalaps and 3 Karans many times in his many waezes.
Meanwhile I paste Abu Ali's evolution chart below:-
History in Ginans
bibliography_link: History in Ginans
INTRODUCTION
Our Holy Ginans are full of details about evolution. Following are some points written by Alwaez Abualy Alibhai Aziz.
EVOLUTION
“Lakh Chorasi” mentioned in our Ginans is nothing else but the theory of evolution. If you read “Moman Chitwaini” by our Holy Pir Sadruddin, you will get the full explanation about evolution and the process of creation. This book contains 630 stanzas but the language is difficult. It requires an expert to understand it. Some knowledge of Sanskrit and Prakrit is absolutely necessary.
Lakh Chorasi means 8,400,000 stages or forms of life on earth. It means a form of a species. For example, there are more than 3,000 species of snakes known today. But many more species might have been living in the past, and are now extinct.
It has taken 4,313,000 years of evolution from the amoeba to man of today. Some details:
It took the amoeba 432,000 years to evolve into a fish.
It took the fish 432,000 years to evolve into a tortoise.
It took the tortoise 432,000 years to evolve to a mammal like water hog.
It took the water hog 432,000 years to evolve to a higher form of mammal like a lion.
It took the lion 432,000 years to evolve to an ape such as a chimpanzee or sometimes known as the missing link.
It took that ape 432,000 years to evolve to the first man with intelligence. He was actually the ADAM known as ABUL BASHR.
After another 432,000 years’ period of development, the civilized man appeared during the period of the first RAMA (there are hundreds of kings known as Rama) who lived about 864,000 years ago.
Modern man and his immediate ancestors have been living on earth for the past 7,000 years during which the Biblical Prophets have appeared. The Great Flood perhaps came in this period.
Between the two major stages of evolution such as amoeba and fish, there were thousands of developing and evolving stages which produced hundred of thousands of species. Most of them are now extinct.
DAS AWTAAR
Our theory of Das Awtaar is not Hindu mythology though it is found in Hindu Scriptures. It is in fact the explanation of the process of evolution in a simple manner, and understanding its relation to the Divine Guidance.
The Sanskrit word “awtaar” is generally misunderstood by most of us. It means to descend or descended; to change shape; the span of life; preface; one after another etc. So you see it does not mean God. It means descended, the Arabic equivalent of which is “naazil” or “munazzil”. These words have been extensively used in the Holy Quran where Allah mentions His Noor or His message.
Our Holy Imam Mowlana Sultan Mohammed Shah once explained the existence of the MACHHA-AWTAAR in these words:
“When there was nothing but fish on earth, God stood as Witness and you must have no doubt to that kind of witness from above.”(Mission Conference, Dar-es-Salaam, 1945)
KHAAN
In Sanskrit, Khaan means store or evolution. The Holy Pir has also mentioned that there were four divisions of the process of evolution. These are: Shitage Khaan, Jadage Khaan, Indage Khaan, and Udrbhud Khaan (see chart for explanation):
1.Shitage (or Sitej): Growth by fission; multiplication of living cells, ameba, germ, bacteria, etc. In other words, creation from the earth, for example metal, minerals, mountains.
2.Jadage (or Jjrej): Growth from seed or twig such as trees, plants, vegetation. In other words, creation on the earth for example trees, plants.
3.Indage (or Indej): Growth from an egg such as birds, reptiles, fish, etc.
4.Udr-Bhud (or Udhboj): Growth in a womb such as animals and human beings.
SOUL
The human soul has crossed the vast ocean of Lakh Chorasi and now appears in human stage. There is enough evidence that the soul is developing and progressing all the time. Everything that Nature has produced is progressing. If there is any deterioration or destruction, it is for reproduction in a better form.
Normally a soul will not turn back to an animal stage; but, of course, in some exceptional cases a soul may be retarded or degraded to lower stages as a punishment and for improvement. Otherwise it is created and is meant for development. It may make progress during its human life on earth as well as in the Hereafter.
A human being is given several chances in his lifetime to improve and develop. He is also given many lives to make progress enough to reach nearer and nearer to his Creator.
EVOLUTION IN GINANS
The following is an interesting chart about evolution and the Das Awtaar explaining: the four yugs (jugs); the names and meanings of Das Awtaar and their ten devilish opponents; the number of various species; the percentage of sin and virtue in different times, and many other details.
According to our Holy Ginans, the Wonderful Tradition, life started on earth thousands of million years ago. It was destroyed after a certain evolution for many millions of years. After the elapse of some millenniums, life reappeared on earth. There were many such cycles of life and destruction.
The present cycle of life on earth started about 3,985,000 years ago. According to Hazrat Pir Sadruddin (1300-1415 A.D.), life on earth started with the amoeba. It evolved and divided into 1870 million species (varieties) of life in water, in the air, and on the ground.
In the beginning, the earth was not so far away from the sun. Life started first in the north, perhaps in the arctic region because this was the first part of the earth to cool down. As the north became unbearably cold, the creatures moved down toward the tropical zone. One-third of the species became extinct in the process of evolution.
In the beginning of the second Yug Treta, man evolved from ape. This phenomenon occurred about 2.2 million years ago. Scientists are gradually discovering now what Hazrat Pir Sadruddin had told us six hundred years ago.
The Torah (Taw’ rat), Zabboor (Jam’ bur), Injeel (Ingil) and Quran appeared during the last seven thousand years. The first three Holy Books (revealed to Prophets Moses, David, and Jesus respectively) are actually the parts of the Divine Message that the Quran contains. Similarly, the Message in the Scriptures of Rigg Veda (Rug Vedh), Yajur Veda (Jujr Vedh), and Saam Veda (Sham Vedh) in the first three Yugs was briefly repeated in the Athir Veda (Athar Vedh), which appeared in the beginning of the fourth Yug, the Kal Yug, but before the Great Flood. That is why the Holy Pir said that Athir Veda is the Holy Quran.
About seven thousand years of the Kal Yug have passed so far, during which the Biblical Prophets lived. The ninth Awtaar, the Manifestation of Noor of Allah, was Hazrat Buddh (not the Buddha who was Prince Sidharatha in 500 B.C.). He was Prophet Adam but not he Abul Bashr.
There are 4 Kalaps: 1. Jaheyla 2. Faheyla 3. Arja 4. Khalifa
Similarly, there are 3 Karans, each 33 million years which = 99 million years.
The 4 Yugs (Jugs) are:
KARTA YUG TRETA YUG DWAPUR YUG KAL YUG
1,728,000 yrs. 1,296,000 yrs. 864,000 yrs. 432,000 yrs.
Totally, 4,320,000 years.
The 4 Angels and their duties are:
MIKAEL ASHRAFIL AZRAIL GABRIEL
blows the wind puts spirit in removes the spirits messenger between
the body (life) from the body God & Prophets
There are also 4 directions: 1. Utar-North 2. Dakshin-South 3. Purve-East 4. Pashchim-West.
Besides above information you can also find some information in Hindu Theory of World cycles however there are few differences between ginans and Hindu theory.[/code]
iwant the whole history about the 3 karans plz answer me and make ur commentssss soon plzzzz....
I personally asked same question to Rai Abu Ali Saheb in Austin, TX, he told me brief history of evolution and told me what is 3 Karans, but it was very short info so, I started to goggled around and started to find in evolution books, unfortunately I couldn't find many evolution theory books because there are not many, whichever I found were not matching with Ismaili ginanic literature, for an instant example "Karans" are not mentioned in Hindu theory, they have mentioned "Manvantar" instead, the meaning of Manvantar is distance between two Manu( Hindu believes that Manu was the first man on earth and after him human being started and therefore human being is called "Manavi" after Manu same like "AADMI CALLED AFTER AADAM )but "Manvantar" is not mentioned in our Ginanic literature, therefore I suggest you to read 'Muman Chaitmani' and other ginans specially written by Pir Sadardin and listen waezes of Rai Saheb he also mentioned 4 Kalaps and 3 Karans many times in his many waezes.
Meanwhile I paste Abu Ali's evolution chart below:-
History in Ginans
bibliography_link: History in Ginans
INTRODUCTION
Our Holy Ginans are full of details about evolution. Following are some points written by Alwaez Abualy Alibhai Aziz.
EVOLUTION
“Lakh Chorasi” mentioned in our Ginans is nothing else but the theory of evolution. If you read “Moman Chitwaini” by our Holy Pir Sadruddin, you will get the full explanation about evolution and the process of creation. This book contains 630 stanzas but the language is difficult. It requires an expert to understand it. Some knowledge of Sanskrit and Prakrit is absolutely necessary.
Lakh Chorasi means 8,400,000 stages or forms of life on earth. It means a form of a species. For example, there are more than 3,000 species of snakes known today. But many more species might have been living in the past, and are now extinct.
It has taken 4,313,000 years of evolution from the amoeba to man of today. Some details:
It took the amoeba 432,000 years to evolve into a fish.
It took the fish 432,000 years to evolve into a tortoise.
It took the tortoise 432,000 years to evolve to a mammal like water hog.
It took the water hog 432,000 years to evolve to a higher form of mammal like a lion.
It took the lion 432,000 years to evolve to an ape such as a chimpanzee or sometimes known as the missing link.
It took that ape 432,000 years to evolve to the first man with intelligence. He was actually the ADAM known as ABUL BASHR.
After another 432,000 years’ period of development, the civilized man appeared during the period of the first RAMA (there are hundreds of kings known as Rama) who lived about 864,000 years ago.
Modern man and his immediate ancestors have been living on earth for the past 7,000 years during which the Biblical Prophets have appeared. The Great Flood perhaps came in this period.
Between the two major stages of evolution such as amoeba and fish, there were thousands of developing and evolving stages which produced hundred of thousands of species. Most of them are now extinct.
DAS AWTAAR
Our theory of Das Awtaar is not Hindu mythology though it is found in Hindu Scriptures. It is in fact the explanation of the process of evolution in a simple manner, and understanding its relation to the Divine Guidance.
The Sanskrit word “awtaar” is generally misunderstood by most of us. It means to descend or descended; to change shape; the span of life; preface; one after another etc. So you see it does not mean God. It means descended, the Arabic equivalent of which is “naazil” or “munazzil”. These words have been extensively used in the Holy Quran where Allah mentions His Noor or His message.
Our Holy Imam Mowlana Sultan Mohammed Shah once explained the existence of the MACHHA-AWTAAR in these words:
“When there was nothing but fish on earth, God stood as Witness and you must have no doubt to that kind of witness from above.”(Mission Conference, Dar-es-Salaam, 1945)
KHAAN
In Sanskrit, Khaan means store or evolution. The Holy Pir has also mentioned that there were four divisions of the process of evolution. These are: Shitage Khaan, Jadage Khaan, Indage Khaan, and Udrbhud Khaan (see chart for explanation):
1.Shitage (or Sitej): Growth by fission; multiplication of living cells, ameba, germ, bacteria, etc. In other words, creation from the earth, for example metal, minerals, mountains.
2.Jadage (or Jjrej): Growth from seed or twig such as trees, plants, vegetation. In other words, creation on the earth for example trees, plants.
3.Indage (or Indej): Growth from an egg such as birds, reptiles, fish, etc.
4.Udr-Bhud (or Udhboj): Growth in a womb such as animals and human beings.
SOUL
The human soul has crossed the vast ocean of Lakh Chorasi and now appears in human stage. There is enough evidence that the soul is developing and progressing all the time. Everything that Nature has produced is progressing. If there is any deterioration or destruction, it is for reproduction in a better form.
Normally a soul will not turn back to an animal stage; but, of course, in some exceptional cases a soul may be retarded or degraded to lower stages as a punishment and for improvement. Otherwise it is created and is meant for development. It may make progress during its human life on earth as well as in the Hereafter.
A human being is given several chances in his lifetime to improve and develop. He is also given many lives to make progress enough to reach nearer and nearer to his Creator.
EVOLUTION IN GINANS
The following is an interesting chart about evolution and the Das Awtaar explaining: the four yugs (jugs); the names and meanings of Das Awtaar and their ten devilish opponents; the number of various species; the percentage of sin and virtue in different times, and many other details.
According to our Holy Ginans, the Wonderful Tradition, life started on earth thousands of million years ago. It was destroyed after a certain evolution for many millions of years. After the elapse of some millenniums, life reappeared on earth. There were many such cycles of life and destruction.
The present cycle of life on earth started about 3,985,000 years ago. According to Hazrat Pir Sadruddin (1300-1415 A.D.), life on earth started with the amoeba. It evolved and divided into 1870 million species (varieties) of life in water, in the air, and on the ground.
In the beginning, the earth was not so far away from the sun. Life started first in the north, perhaps in the arctic region because this was the first part of the earth to cool down. As the north became unbearably cold, the creatures moved down toward the tropical zone. One-third of the species became extinct in the process of evolution.
In the beginning of the second Yug Treta, man evolved from ape. This phenomenon occurred about 2.2 million years ago. Scientists are gradually discovering now what Hazrat Pir Sadruddin had told us six hundred years ago.
The Torah (Taw’ rat), Zabboor (Jam’ bur), Injeel (Ingil) and Quran appeared during the last seven thousand years. The first three Holy Books (revealed to Prophets Moses, David, and Jesus respectively) are actually the parts of the Divine Message that the Quran contains. Similarly, the Message in the Scriptures of Rigg Veda (Rug Vedh), Yajur Veda (Jujr Vedh), and Saam Veda (Sham Vedh) in the first three Yugs was briefly repeated in the Athir Veda (Athar Vedh), which appeared in the beginning of the fourth Yug, the Kal Yug, but before the Great Flood. That is why the Holy Pir said that Athir Veda is the Holy Quran.
About seven thousand years of the Kal Yug have passed so far, during which the Biblical Prophets lived. The ninth Awtaar, the Manifestation of Noor of Allah, was Hazrat Buddh (not the Buddha who was Prince Sidharatha in 500 B.C.). He was Prophet Adam but not he Abul Bashr.
There are 4 Kalaps: 1. Jaheyla 2. Faheyla 3. Arja 4. Khalifa
Similarly, there are 3 Karans, each 33 million years which = 99 million years.
The 4 Yugs (Jugs) are:
KARTA YUG TRETA YUG DWAPUR YUG KAL YUG
1,728,000 yrs. 1,296,000 yrs. 864,000 yrs. 432,000 yrs.
Totally, 4,320,000 years.
The 4 Angels and their duties are:
MIKAEL ASHRAFIL AZRAIL GABRIEL
blows the wind puts spirit in removes the spirits messenger between
the body (life) from the body God & Prophets
There are also 4 directions: 1. Utar-North 2. Dakshin-South 3. Purve-East 4. Pashchim-West.
Besides above information you can also find some information in Hindu Theory of World cycles however there are few differences between ginans and Hindu theory.[/code]
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mominmomin103
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:50 am
thaks bro very good and detailed info....
u say that read "momin chitwaini" but these grath is not in this web and i m frm pakistan and here many ginans and graths are extinct bcuz of non- ismailis religious pressure did u have any link for these grath or any waez and ginan related to these topic.......
u say that read "momin chitwaini" but these grath is not in this web and i m frm pakistan and here many ginans and graths are extinct bcuz of non- ismailis religious pressure did u have any link for these grath or any waez and ginan related to these topic.......
I can only suggest you to go Garden JK Library in Karachi, this library still has copy of "Muman Chetamani and many other extincted Ismaili ginans in Gujarati, Khojki and Urdu languages.
I, also refer you to Read pir Sadardin's all ginans and listen Abu ali waezs, where you will find some information or "Karan" but other then that you will not find more information any where else because there are none, whatever details available are in Sanskrit and Prakrit languages which are very hard to understand for that you must have to dig the Hindu scriptures, Hindu Vedas and Hindu Purans which has lots of information but most of Ismailis does not prefer to read these, however there is nothing wrong to read and study that and once SMS also suggested to learn Sanskrit language in Kalam - E- Mubin.
Now if you don't have any objection to read or watch Hindu mythology and scriptures then I will suggest you to watch " Maha Bharat" a great TV serial, the event had taken place more than 5000 years and watch "Vishnu Puran" which has some information not all but it is ok that, how this world was created and what was the purpose of the creation, which were the the "Ten incarnations"? what purpose were to come on earth e.t.c. unfortunately these TV serial does not have much information on "Karan" or "Kalap" and that was your main question.
I, also refer you to Read pir Sadardin's all ginans and listen Abu ali waezs, where you will find some information or "Karan" but other then that you will not find more information any where else because there are none, whatever details available are in Sanskrit and Prakrit languages which are very hard to understand for that you must have to dig the Hindu scriptures, Hindu Vedas and Hindu Purans which has lots of information but most of Ismailis does not prefer to read these, however there is nothing wrong to read and study that and once SMS also suggested to learn Sanskrit language in Kalam - E- Mubin.
Now if you don't have any objection to read or watch Hindu mythology and scriptures then I will suggest you to watch " Maha Bharat" a great TV serial, the event had taken place more than 5000 years and watch "Vishnu Puran" which has some information not all but it is ok that, how this world was created and what was the purpose of the creation, which were the the "Ten incarnations"? what purpose were to come on earth e.t.c. unfortunately these TV serial does not have much information on "Karan" or "Kalap" and that was your main question.
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star_munir
- Posts: 1670
- Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 12:55 am
- Contact:
Translation of the granth is available on ismaili.net...thanks to admin for providing so many translations of Ginans.mominmomin103 wrote:thaks bro very good and detailed info....
u say that read "momin chitwaini" but these grath is not in this web and i m frm pakistan and here many ginans and graths are extinct bcuz of non- ismailis religious pressure did u have any link for these grath or any waez and ginan related to these topic.......
Munir,
Where is the translation of a great, great Granth name "NAKALANKI GITA" ??!! you said that translation of all ganths are available in Ismaili.net!! there are some summary of this great granth but not the translation brother!!
Munir bhaijan,
I don't say that Garden JK library has lots of ginans by imagine but I have good source from there which tell me that this is true and I have a catalogue/list of Garden JK library, please don't surprise because I am in state but I sware I do have that!.
By the way thanks for your help.
Where is the translation of a great, great Granth name "NAKALANKI GITA" ??!! you said that translation of all ganths are available in Ismaili.net!! there are some summary of this great granth but not the translation brother!!
Munir bhaijan,
I don't say that Garden JK library has lots of ginans by imagine but I have good source from there which tell me that this is true and I have a catalogue/list of Garden JK library, please don't surprise because I am in state but I sware I do have that!.
By the way thanks for your help.
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star_munir
- Posts: 1670
- Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 12:55 am
- Contact:
@agakhani,
I was not referring to Naklanki Gita. I was telling about moman chetamni and moman chetwani...Translations of both granth you can see on ismaili.net.
As for Naklanki Gita, I know in ismaili.net only summary is available. I dont know whether English or Gujarati translation of this granth is available or not. But I have got to know that one alwaez has attempted for its urdu translation.
I was not referring to Naklanki Gita. I was telling about moman chetamni and moman chetwani...Translations of both granth you can see on ismaili.net.
As for Naklanki Gita, I know in ismaili.net only summary is available. I dont know whether English or Gujarati translation of this granth is available or not. But I have got to know that one alwaez has attempted for its urdu translation.
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ismaili103
- Posts: 542
- Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:40 am
Translation of the granth is available on ismaili.net...thanks to admin for providing so many translations of Ginans.[/quote]
starmunir bhai there is only translation of the granth "momin chetamni" by syed imam shah. but i want the translation of the granth "momin chitwaini"(to munivar bhai) by pir sadardin.there is no translation of momin chitwaini in this web......
starmunir bhai there is only translation of the granth "momin chetamni" by syed imam shah. but i want the translation of the granth "momin chitwaini"(to munivar bhai) by pir sadardin.there is no translation of momin chitwaini in this web......
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star_munir
- Posts: 1670
- Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 12:55 am
- Contact:
starmunir bhai there is only translation of the granth "momin chetamni" by syed imam shah. but i want the translation of the granth "momin chitwaini"(to munivar bhai) by pir sadardin.there is no translation of momin chitwaini in this web......[/quote]ismaili103 wrote:Translation of the granth is available on ismaili.net...thanks to admin for providing so many translations of Ginans.
Translation of granth moman chitwaini of Pir Sadardin is there in book Noor en Allah Noor and this book is available on ismaili.net
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ismaili103
- Posts: 542
- Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:40 am
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star_munir
- Posts: 1670
- Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 12:55 am
- Contact:
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ismaili103
- Posts: 542
- Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:40 am
well agakhani bhai i read in this forum about 3 karanagakhani wrote:The question remain the same, he wants to know more detail on "Karan" and "Kalap" and this is the main question I read Noor An Allah Noor but there is not much detailed information in this article, this article has good information on Das Avatar but not on Kalap and Karan except the names.
one karan=33crore years
only these info i got about karan.i want to know is jakh megh and kinar are the rohani or karans or starting 3 kalaps.......according to ginan i listen in abu ali waez jakhs(bacteria), megh(birds), kinar(amphibians)..
if u know more about that plzz reply....
Off course I know, and let me clear it that my information is relys on our Ginans, Granths, farmans and Hindu scriptures like Veda, Purans, I spent many days to collect these information but brother this is very serious topic which I don't want to discuss in this website because many peoples will not agree with this and don't believe this not even KMaherali or Admin.(any way this topic has been discussed in past and they were not agree with what our ginans says)
Are you living in Karachi or Hyderabad? I have plan to visit Pakistan soon, so, I will meet you personally and I will let you know more detail about this, Inshallah. Please not the word Inshallah.
Are you living in Karachi or Hyderabad? I have plan to visit Pakistan soon, so, I will meet you personally and I will let you know more detail about this, Inshallah. Please not the word Inshallah.
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ismaili103
- Posts: 542
- Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:40 am