i am ardent listner of both.the observations,i have noted are.
ginans were composed from vedic background by pirs from granth,vedas,gita,garbi etc.it revolves around it n comes to haqiti essecence after few verses.It was very much needed at that time n circumstances.
while qasidas have qurani n hadees back ground.
qasidas were bought to mainstream for ismailies fm indian origin few years before silver jubilee.both r NOOR by itself.
we are now ismailies with strong faith n rational sense.I feel qasiidas are more inspiring as it tries to move r souls from haqiqat to marifat level.
over 7 pirs over 750 years have got over 3.5 lacs into satpanth of today khoja ismaili.While one r more Dai over 1050 years has inspired around 20 million Isimailies living today.
please expand on this
ginan visavis qasida
I would recommend that you read and reflect on the article:
Ginans: A Wonderful Tradition
at:
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... +wonderful
Ginans: A Wonderful Tradition
at:
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... +wonderful
To Nuseri, I suggest you go through Farmans on Ginans, that will give you the explanation. The Ginans do not come from Vedic sources, they come from the Divine.
Qasidas written by our Imams (several Imams have written beautiful Qasidas) are different from for example Qasidas written by contemporary Ismailis. They can not be categorised in the same pot. One has to distinguish. One could also compare Geets and Mowla ji Shaan which are equaly inspiring and who have equaly their background in the heart and soul of the Momins.
Qasidas written by our Imams (several Imams have written beautiful Qasidas) are different from for example Qasidas written by contemporary Ismailis. They can not be categorised in the same pot. One has to distinguish. One could also compare Geets and Mowla ji Shaan which are equaly inspiring and who have equaly their background in the heart and soul of the Momins.
I do not agree with your above comments our ginans were not composed on Hindu Vedic or Puranic background, yes there are some Hindu devata names in ginans but that is it, can you refer me any ginan in which our pir has suggested to worship idols? when Hindu granths, Gita and purans insists to worship idols, these scriptures also insists to worship snake, animals, trees, sun, rivers,fires and hundred and hundreds different devi devtas.ginans were composed from vedic background by pirs from granth,vedas,gita,garbi etc.
Many Ismailis specially from Pakistan usually compare ginans with Qasidas and they trys to give more importance to Qasidas!! but that is wrong, there are big differences between ginans and qasidas. Qasida usually compose to praise Allah and for reputable person like king and its has nothing to do with Ruhaniyat, while in Ginans you can find almost all the information and nashihat from worldly to ruhaniyat and no wonder why our Imam referred ginan as a "WONDERFUL TRADITION' Ginans were needed before when our ancestors were converted in Ismailism, ginans are still needed even right now and I think ginans will be needed in future for future generation, the only thing we need to do is stop changing ginan's original texts and stop to changing its ragas.
I really appreciate response from 3 pillar strong haqitati momims.I am doing some research on ALI,i wish u can help with info i am seeking.
please note i have mentioned the word background n and NOT source.
the source of both qasidas n ginans is thru noorani hidayat of ALI to peers composing it.
I find ginans more intelligent n challenging in composing,as pirs were of persian origin n ginan composed mostly in khojki n gujrati.
Observing the Ismailies in Badhakshan.after considering thier genetic built,diet n climate.MOST of them glow of noorani light on thier faces(not the colour of thier skin)inbulit permanant smile and contentment in thier lives.they are financially poor jamat.
This noorani glow,smile n contentment are definately heavenly graces r noorani rehmat of moula.
what is the ruhani input for these rehmat.I am sure Qasidas is one of them.
Doctor knows best what medicines have worked.He knows what best medicine to prescribe to his patient.
please let me know what Imams have said on Qasidas in positive note
please note i have mentioned the word background n and NOT source.
the source of both qasidas n ginans is thru noorani hidayat of ALI to peers composing it.
I find ginans more intelligent n challenging in composing,as pirs were of persian origin n ginan composed mostly in khojki n gujrati.
Observing the Ismailies in Badhakshan.after considering thier genetic built,diet n climate.MOST of them glow of noorani light on thier faces(not the colour of thier skin)inbulit permanant smile and contentment in thier lives.they are financially poor jamat.
This noorani glow,smile n contentment are definately heavenly graces r noorani rehmat of moula.
what is the ruhani input for these rehmat.I am sure Qasidas is one of them.
Doctor knows best what medicines have worked.He knows what best medicine to prescribe to his patient.
please let me know what Imams have said on Qasidas in positive note
Mr. agakhani,
Mr. Nuseri,
Wow, what a great explanation!! you chronicled ginan's importance very nicely and in very short form, but your above narration may be bitter for ginans animus and Qasida lovers, may be!!Ginans were needed before when our ancestors were converted in Ismailism, ginans are still needed even right now and I think ginans will be needed in future for future generation,
Mr. Nuseri,
I think this glow on their face is due to Bandagi as I heard that meditation brings glow, charm on face and long life but not the Qasidas.Observing the Ismailies in Badhakshan.after considering thier genetic built,diet n climate.MOST of them glow of noorani light on thier faces(not the colour of thier skin)inbulit permanant smile and contentment in thier lives.
Can you just name few Qasida in which I can find Ruhaniyat?
By the way you need to study more our ginanic literature and compare our ginans with Qasidas and then after you can judge me or anybody for anything.
The above quote is not only mine, and I am not the only person who is saying that in Qasida you won't find many thing but except the praise, this true facts you can find in many books and if you listen waezs then you can find this fact in waezs too
BTW:-Qasidas used to made to praise king, a noble man and Almighty Allah and I bet you brother nobody can denied my this quote, if yes then prove me wrong You may find some ethical, theological and may be some philosophical motives in Qasidas but absolutely not the Ruhaniyat.
I am not against Qasidas, I always love to listen it in JK but I still prefer ginans and I still give more importance to ginans in comparison of Qasidas because I find many solutions from ginans.
This topic has been discussed many times you need to search more in Ismaili.net forum.
Now your comments on;"I am not answerable person" !! you may be right bro, may be I am not answerable person at all, however I never claimed it that I have answers of your all questions but FYI:- I receive many e-mails from Ismaili.net readers they ask me many questions, if I am not answarable persons to them then I would not have receives so many e-mails and phone calls from these readers ; this is my answer to you about your above comments
By the way you need to study more our ginanic literature and compare our ginans with Qasidas and then after you can judge me or anybody for anything.
The above quote is not only mine, and I am not the only person who is saying that in Qasida you won't find many thing but except the praise, this true facts you can find in many books and if you listen waezs then you can find this fact in waezs too
BTW:-Qasidas used to made to praise king, a noble man and Almighty Allah and I bet you brother nobody can denied my this quote, if yes then prove me wrong You may find some ethical, theological and may be some philosophical motives in Qasidas but absolutely not the Ruhaniyat.
I am not against Qasidas, I always love to listen it in JK but I still prefer ginans and I still give more importance to ginans in comparison of Qasidas because I find many solutions from ginans.
This topic has been discussed many times you need to search more in Ismaili.net forum.
Now your comments on;"I am not answerable person" !! you may be right bro, may be I am not answerable person at all, however I never claimed it that I have answers of your all questions but FYI:- I receive many e-mails from Ismaili.net readers they ask me many questions, if I am not answarable persons to them then I would not have receives so many e-mails and phone calls from these readers ; this is my answer to you about your above comments
I have observed the numbers reading this post.
If you are a scholar and a Ginan lover,I feel your love for Hazar Imam be least 1o times more than it.you should try to sniff n scan out lines in Ginan which have deep
Baatin maina and try to LIVE in those Ginans rather than going to it roots of it's composition and getting deep into Hindu mythology.it was Pir's job then and they had a Maqsad for using those material.IT IS DONE WITH 750 years back(hindu material not ginans).My mother was called Ginan queen of her time.I do like Ginans
We should feast our souls with esoteric Ismailism (like dai khusraw) reading rather than give morsels to our mind by studying Hinduism.
Devotional books are in some way a books of entrance exam for colleges,
you get into the college then the Dean n his book have greater say(present Imams and his Farmans).
We Definately need more books of the Dean to graduate and go for Doctorate,which is not SOLELY possible by entrance level books.
Please do understand it rationally and do not arouse personal emotions.
If you are a scholar and a Ginan lover,I feel your love for Hazar Imam be least 1o times more than it.you should try to sniff n scan out lines in Ginan which have deep
Baatin maina and try to LIVE in those Ginans rather than going to it roots of it's composition and getting deep into Hindu mythology.it was Pir's job then and they had a Maqsad for using those material.IT IS DONE WITH 750 years back(hindu material not ginans).My mother was called Ginan queen of her time.I do like Ginans
We should feast our souls with esoteric Ismailism (like dai khusraw) reading rather than give morsels to our mind by studying Hinduism.
Devotional books are in some way a books of entrance exam for colleges,
you get into the college then the Dean n his book have greater say(present Imams and his Farmans).
We Definately need more books of the Dean to graduate and go for Doctorate,which is not SOLELY possible by entrance level books.
Please do understand it rationally and do not arouse personal emotions.
As I had asked nearly 48 days back.what Imams have said about Qasidas.I never got any reply
It sadly reflects upon our(specially me) readings of Hazar Imam's Farmans n remembering it's important points .
I just heard a Farman this morning read out in Gujarati,which isa Farman made by Hazar Imam In Aliabad,Hunza in 1996.
It says in gujarati translation that Qasidas are "GHANU MAHATWANU',which mean of very important / of great significance.
This Farman is very interesting as there is message on Intellect in Shiaism
and also we have lot to learn from each other culture n practices.
It sadly reflects upon our(specially me) readings of Hazar Imam's Farmans n remembering it's important points .
I just heard a Farman this morning read out in Gujarati,which isa Farman made by Hazar Imam In Aliabad,Hunza in 1996.
It says in gujarati translation that Qasidas are "GHANU MAHATWANU',which mean of very important / of great significance.
This Farman is very interesting as there is message on Intellect in Shiaism
and also we have lot to learn from each other culture n practices.