Ka'baa's Black Stone was carried away?

[agakhani]

Did you know that?
Karamatian tribe once attacked in Ka'baa and they carried away Hajar Ashwad (the black stone) in 317/929, which was returned after 22-23 years later?

[Admin]

I wonder in which directions they were praying then. I know they got a large ransom before returning the Stone.

Also when people move out of this planet in the future, and settle in various other planet by the grace of God, what will be the direction and on which planet will the Stone stay?

[shiraz.virani]

Is this black stone even mentioned in the holy quran ??

And also lets forget about the planets and focus on this planet 1st.....what was the reason that the prophet[saw] used this black stone ??

Was it done in order to avoid the fight between different tribes @ whose going to lay the foundation of the grand mosque ?? Was it done because allah[swt] commanded him[saw] to ??

[agakhani]

I wonder in which directions they were praying then. I know they got a large ransom before returning the Stone.

This question also come up in my mind when I heard this first time, in which directions Muslims were praying during 22-23 year lapse of that stone?.
First of all most Muslims don't know that this kind event had taken place! they can't even accept that this kind event could happen in holy place like Ka'baa!!
but it happened that is true.
It is possible that they may still continue to pray in the direction of Ka'baa even though there was no black stone in it.
By the way before Prophet Mohammad (s.a.) they were praying in the direction of masjid Al- Aqsa.

Also when people move out of this planet in the future, and settle in various other planet by the grace of God, what will be the direction and on which planet will the Stone stay?

Brother Admin, you are running too fast bro, it is very hard to digest this kind stories for many peoples even some Ismailis will not accept that one of days this planet (earth) will be not right place to live anymore because of unbearable heat, this earth will become so hot that nobody can survive here on this earth, therefore human being have to move out in another planet this will happen one of days the possibility of move out from this earth is very very high.

[agakhani]

Is this black stone even mentioned in the holy quran ??

No, Qur'an does not mention about hajar aswad (black stone) nor Quran mention to kiss it.
FYI:- The famous well 'ZAMZAM' also not mention in Quran.

[agakhani]

S.V.,
In the same token let me ask you this did Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) ever kissed that black stone?

[shiraz.virani]

No, Qur'an does not mention about hajar aswad (black stone) nor Quran mention to kiss it.
FYI:- The famous well 'ZAMZAM' also not mention in Quran.

Thank god !!....Atleast this time we are on the same page ...Yes there is no mention of black stone in the holy quran because it is of no importance !!!

Yes !!!.....No importance at all !!!

I think this stone acted as the foundation laying ceremony for this sacred place....you know how rasool[saw] took a big cloth put the stone in the center and called the heads of each tribe to hold the corners of the cloth ??

I personally think that this stone has no spiritual significance [apart from rasool[saw] touching the stone] at all !!

And regarding ZAM ZAM....again you're right, there is no mention of that in the holy quran

[shiraz.virani]

S.V.,
In the same token let me ask you this did Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) ever kissed that black stone?

What difference would it make if he kissed that stone or not ??

But since you asked me, history says that he did !!....But again in my opinion he did that only because his forefathers i.e H.Ibrahim[as] and H.Ismail[as] has touched it with their noble [mubarak] hands.

[agakhani]

.you know how rasool[saw] took a big cloth put the stone in the center and called the heads of each tribe to hold the corners of the cloth ??

Yes, brother I read that story in " SHIRAT- UN- NABI" it was about to start big fights among different tribes regarding who lay foundation first but rasool (pbuh) find a nice solution took a big cloth and put the stone in the center and called the leader of each tribe to participate in foundation laying ceremony thus rasool (saw) find quick solution and avoided fight.

[agakhani]

What difference would it make if he kissed that stone or not ??

Not much, not big difference but if rasool (PBUH) would have not kissed that black stone then I think Haji would not have started to kiss that stone either.

By the way, I haven't gone for a Hajj yet ( I want to go one of day, it is nothing wrong to go for Hajj even if you are an Ismaili) but I heard that pilgrimages/Hajis also throwing a stone to Satan!! questions:-
Where did the Satan came from in holy place like Ka'baa?
What is the history for this stone - throwing to Satan?
Is there any religious significance in stone-throwing to any pilgrimages?

[shiraz.virani]

Where did the Satan came from in holy place like Ka'baa?
What is the history for this stone - throwing to Satan?
Is there any religious significance in stone-throwing to any pilgrimages?

Good question brother......As majority of muslims do not have the living imam[as] to guide them, they try to follow what people during jaahiliyat follow...Like in some fabricated hadiths it is mentioned that rasool[saw] used to throw stones at three pillars as this is the very place where H.Ibrahim[as] was tested by allah[swt] i.e the sacrifice of his dear son H.Ismail[as] ....each time H.Ibrahim[as] tried to follow allah's[swt] command the devil used to try to make H.Ibrahim[as] disobey allah's[swt] command, hence H.Ibrahim[as] used to throw the stone showing his hatred for satan

There is nowhere mentioned in the holy quran that muslims should either kiss that stone, worship that stone or even throw the stones at the pillars for satan does not live in holy kabba.....How can the devil sneak into the gods house ??

Unfortunately this so called muslims forget to apply a simple logic that gods house is pure....throwing the stones does not show your piety but instead foolishness AKA jaahiliyat and this is what the devil wants

When Mata Salamat went to the holy kabba even she participated in this ritual/custom....but that doesnt necessarily mean that we ismailis should do the same !!....But then again it depends on an individual like for some the stone is nothing more than a direction where one should turn......For some this stone was sent from the paradise [If so then I dont think jannat is spiritual but rather physical ].....For some satan is held or captured in this black stone and will come out during the end of days to deviate people from siratal mustakim [I wonder how a jinn or the devil can be captured in a stone ] and so on

Bottom line, black stone is worthless [with no spiritual importance] and there is no devil waiting in the holy house to be stoned

[maredia_ejaz]

Did you know that?
Karamatian tribe once attacked in Ka'baa and they carried away Hajar Ashwad (the black stone) in 317/929, which was returned after 22-23 years later?

other muslims does not believe this...

[agakhani]

other muslims does not believe this...

That is right they are not believe that black stone was carried away for some time but believe or not to believe doesn't change the history.

First of all most Muslims don't know that this kind event had taken place! they can't even accept that this kind event could happen in holy place like Ka'baa!!

Most Muslims biradars don't know about this event and if you ask them they will denied it, please read my above post.

[zznoor]

Admin
I wonder in which directions they were praying then. I know they got a large ransom before returning the Stone.

They were and are still praying in same direction as ordered by Allah SWT Sacred Mosque (Q 2:150).

[Shakir 2:150] And from whatsoever place you come forth, turn your face towards the Sacred Mosque; and wherever you are turn your faces towards it, so that people shall have no accusation against you, except such of them as are unjust; so do not fear them, and fear Me, that I may complete My favor on you and that you may walk on the right course.

For Information, Sacred Mosque is located in Mecca, SA. It is cube shaped building

Admin:Also when people move out of this planet in the future, and settle in various other planet by the grace of God,

Question: How a person would find Qibla direction from another planet or from space?
Answer (by Khalid Shaukat of moonsighting.com):
From another planet or in space, one would face a line in space that goes exactly above Ka'bah (This line is the one that connects Ka'bah to Bait-ul-Ma'moor in the heavens). By 3-D trigonometry, it can be calculated from any point in space, how to face such a line. Even on earth we face the same line, not the ka'bah itself.

Admin:What will be the direction and on which planet will the Stone stay?

The stone (it is better to call it al-ajar al-Aswad) will Inshah Allah stay in same place unless it is stolen again.

[zznoor]

Is this black stone even mentioned in the holy quran ??

And also lets forget about the planets and focus on this planet 1st.....what was the reason that the prophet[saw] used this black stone ??

Was it done in order to avoid the fight between different tribes @ whose going to lay the foundation of the grand mosque ?? Was it done because allah[swt] commanded him[saw] to ??

This is from Black Stone-Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In January 930 it was stolen by the Qarmatians, who carried the Black Stone away to their base in Hajar (modern Bahrain). According to Ottoman historian Qutb al-Din, writing in 1857, Qarmatian leader Abu Tahir al-Qarmati set the Black Stone up in his own mosque, the Masjid al-Dirar, with the intention of redirecting the Hajj away from Mecca. However, this failed, and pilgrims continued to venerate the spot where the Black Stone had been.[13]

According to historian Al-Juwayni, the Stone was returned twenty-three years later, in 952. The Qarmatians held the Black Stone for ransom, and forced the Abbasids to pay a huge sum for its return. It was wrapped in a sack and thrown into the Friday Mosque of Kufa, accompanied by a note saying "By command we took it, and by command we have brought it back." Its abduction and removal caused further damage, breaking the stone into seven pieces.[9][14][15] Its abductor, Abu Tahir, is said to have met a terrible fate; according to Qutb al-Din, "the filthy Abu Tahir was afflicted with a gangrenous sore, his flesh was eaten away by worms, and he died a most terrible death."[13]

The Stone has been subjected to other indignities during its history. In the 11th century, a man allegedly sent by the Fatimid Caliph Al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah attempted to smash the Black Stone, but was killed on the spot, having caused only slight damage.[13] In 1674, according to Johann Ludwig Burckhardt, someone smeared the Black Stone with excrement so that "every one who kissed it retired with a sullied beard". The Shi'ite Persians were suspected of being responsible and were the target of curses from other Muslims for centuries afterwards, though explorer Sir Richard Francis Burton doubted that they were the culprits; he attributed the act to "some Jew or Greek, who risked his life to gratify a furious bigotry."[16]

Please read rest of article. You can find it by googling.

[shiraz.virani]

Question: How a person would find Qibla direction from another planet or from space?
Answer (by Khalid Shaukat of moonsighting.com):
From another planet or in space, one would face a line in space that goes exactly above Ka'bah (This line is the one that connects Ka'bah to Bait-ul-Ma'moor in the heavens). By 3-D trigonometry, it can be calculated from any point in space, how to face such a line. Even on earth we face the same line, not the ka'bah itself.

Sorry but I disagree with you on this one....If god willing humankind moves onto different planet in the same solar system then according to my common sense all the muslims just have to FACE THE EARTH, simple !!!....Why use geometry for measuring an object on a planet [that revolves around its own axis] ???

If at all we travel in space or land on some other planet all we have to do is face the earth, simple !!!

For eg: We havent landed on moon but say for example we did and a muslim scientist feel like offering salat [you know how sentimental we get at times ] ,he doesnt need to make the calculation to find out where exactly the holy kaaba is located at, he just simple have to stand facing the earth a perform his salaat , simple !

[shiraz.virani]

shiraz.virani wrote:
Is this black stone even mentioned in the holy quran ??

And also lets forget about the planets and focus on this planet 1st.....what was the reason that the prophet[saw] used this black stone ??

Was it done in order to avoid the fight between different tribes @ whose going to lay the foundation of the grand mosque ?? Was it done because allah[swt] commanded him[saw] to ??


This is from Black Stone-Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:

In January 930 it was stolen by the Qarmatians, who carried the Black Stone away to their base in Hajar (modern Bahrain). According to Ottoman historian Qutb al-Din, writing in 1857, Qarmatian leader Abu Tahir al-Qarmati set the Black Stone up in his own mosque, the Masjid al-Dirar, with the intention of redirecting the Hajj away from Mecca. However, this failed, and pilgrims continued to venerate the spot where the Black Stone had been.[13]

According to historian Al-Juwayni, the Stone was returned twenty-three years later, in 952. The Qarmatians held the Black Stone for ransom, and forced the Abbasids to pay a huge sum for its return. It was wrapped in a sack and thrown into the Friday Mosque of Kufa, accompanied by a note saying "By command we took it, and by command we have brought it back." Its abduction and removal caused further damage, breaking the stone into seven pieces.[9][14][15] Its abductor, Abu Tahir, is said to have met a terrible fate; according to Qutb al-Din, "the filthy Abu Tahir was afflicted with a gangrenous sore, his flesh was eaten away by worms, and he died a most terrible death."[13]

The Stone has been subjected to other indignities during its history. In the 11th century, a man allegedly sent by the Fatimid Caliph Al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah attempted to smash the Black Stone, but was killed on the spot, having caused only slight damage.[13] In 1674, according to Johann Ludwig Burckhardt, someone smeared the Black Stone with excrement so that "every one who kissed it retired with a sullied beard". The Shi'ite Persians were suspected of being responsible and were the target of curses from other Muslims for centuries afterwards, though explorer Sir Richard Francis Burton doubted that they were the culprits; he attributed the act to "some Jew or Greek, who risked his life to gratify a furious bigotry."[16]


Please read rest of article. You can find it by googling.

I some how try to stay away from wikipedia as the article can be edited by almost anyone...but anyways the story is true and you also shed the light as to the reason why the stone was stolen but If I may ask why do you think Imam Al Hakim sent a person to destroy black stone ????

[agakhani]

In the 11th century, a man allegedly sent by the Fatimid Caliph Al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah attempted to smash the Black Stone, but was killed on the spot, having caused only slight damage

I don't think this is true! why Fatimid Caliph Al- Hakim wanted to smash the Black Stone? I haven't read about above event in any book yet.
It is not necessary that all information written in Wikipedia always true, because anybody can put their thoughts in it whether it is true or false.

[agakhani]

In my opinion you can perform your salat/Namz in any direction , it is not necessary that you have to face towards Ka'baa and perform Namaz, Allah is every where and in every direction, so if human being able to go another planet then I don't think it will be big issue because God is in every direction.

The below is a brief story to prove my point.

There was a saint (some say he was Guru Nanak, some say nope, he was one Muslim saint, no controversy here this example is just for better understanding my point of view, whether he was Muslim saint or Nanak it doesn't matter to me ) who went for a Hajj and one night he was unknowingly lying with his feet towards the Kabah. A person came to him and asked him to move his feet in another direction and not to point them towards holly Kabah because all Muslims give Ka'baa big respect and always pray their salat/Namaz in the direction of Ka'baa, so basically the saint obeyed his advise and moved his legs to another direction opposite direction of Ka'baa Sharif but that man surprised to see that Ka'baa also moved same direction of saint legs the saint moved his legs again in another direction but black stone keep moving towards his legs, the man gave up and went away with big surprise to see this miracel he wanted to inform everyone about this miracle but before he went away saint told him that Allah is in every direction you can perform your salat in direction which always reaches to Allah.
I respect all Muslims who perform their salat facing towards Ka'baa, it is nothing wrong because it was Allahtala hidayat to Prophet to do so, but before this hidayat all Muslim were praying their namaz in the direction of masjid Al- Aqsa.
I don't have any intention to offend any Muslims brother's feeling that what they are doing i.e. facing toward ka'baa and performing their namaz, they are doing right thing and as per the hidayat of Allahtala but in my opinion if someone reach in moon or any another planet and if he/she can not locate exact direction of Ka'baa sharif or earth and perform his prayer in any direction then it will still reach to Almighty Allahtala, because Allahtala is Rahematulalamin.

[shiraz.virani]

In my opinion you can perform your salat/Namz in any direction , it is not necessary that you have to face towards Ka'baa and perform Namaz, Allah is every where and in every direction, so if human being able to go another planet then I don't think it will be big issue because God is in every direction.

The below is a brief story to prove my point.

There was a saint (some say he was Guru Nanak, some say nope, he was one Muslim saint, no controversy here this example is just for better understanding my point of view, whether he was Muslim saint or Nanak it doesn't matter to me ) who went for a Hajj and one night he was unknowingly lying with his feet towards the Kabah. A person came to him and asked him to move his feet in another direction and not to point them towards holly Kabah because all Muslims give Ka'baa big respect and always pray their salat/Namaz in the direction of Ka'baa, so basically the saint obeyed his advise and moved his legs to another direction opposite direction of Ka'baa Sharif but that man surprised to see that Ka'baa also moved same direction of saint legs the saint moved his legs again in another direction but black stone keep moving towards his legs, the man gave up and went away with big surprise to see this miracel he wanted to inform everyone about this miracle but before he went away saint told him that Allah is in every direction you can perform your salat in direction which always reaches to Allah.
I respect all Muslims who perform their salat facing towards Ka'baa, it is nothing wrong because it was Allahtala hidayat to Prophet to do so, but before this hidayat all Muslim were praying their namaz in the direction of masjid Al- Aqsa.
I don't have any intention to offend any Muslims brother's feeling that what they are doing i.e. facing toward ka'baa and performing their namaz, they are doing right thing and as per the hidayat of Allahtala but in my opinion if someone reach in moon or any another planet and if he/she can not locate exact direction of Ka'baa sharif or earth and perform his prayer in any direction then it will still reach to Almighty Allahtala, because Allahtala is Rahematulalamin.

Anhoni ko honi karde, honi ko anhoni, ek jagah jab jamah ho hamari...........AGAKHANI

This topic agakhani bhai is not related just to ismailis only....we are discussing this in general and as we know that the majority of muslims around the world face holy kaaba and this is very important.

Keeping them in mind we have to understand what their belief is !!

Regarding the moon or any other planet in our solar system, I made it very clear that all they have to do is stand facing the earth....Our very own rasool[saw] used to face becca before the command of facing mecca was given, rasool[saw] did not think twice and commanded our fellow brothers to start facing kaaba ....Facing the holy kaaba is a farz of a muslim ...so I dont think there would be any problem for our fellow brothers and sisters if god willing we move to different planet in the same solar system.

Now what could be interesting is that if we humans move to a different galaxy in some other solar system....then !!!!...It would be very difficult to see how a person would face kaaba or how he would make his calculations...BUT..........you never know !!....As we humans strive to evolve and hunt for water on different planets it maybe wise to say even our religion and understanding of GOD and what is he might evolve as well

[agakhani]

This topic agakhani bhai is not related just to ismailis only....we are discussing this in general and as we know that the majority of muslims around the world face holy kaaba and this is very important.

Absolutely, I totally agree with you on your both points mentioned above, first point; this topic is not related to Ismailis only absolutely right and second topic; majority of Muslims of this world are facing holy Ka'baa and pray namaz, I never denied this brother, and I mentioned in my post that I don't have any intention to offend their belief, but the question here is, if human being goes in moon or another planets (and they will one of days) then how they can locate the Ka'baa Sharif? will they built another ka'baa over there?
Second question, Does Allahtala only accept namaz of those "NAMAZIS" who pray their namaz facing ka'baa only?
What would happen if I don't face ka'baa and pray my namaz, does Allahtala will accept it or not?
I already gave my answer with the story of that saint who unknowingly put his legs towards Ka'baa, but what is your answer?

[shiraz.virani]

I already gave my answer with the story of that saint who unknowingly put his legs towards Ka'baa, but what is your answer?

Agakhani bhai I already gave you the answer for this question, I said this topic is not limited for ismailis only....We are talking about muslims around the world in general so for them facing the holy kaaba is a farz

Just like we ismailis can face anywhere and recite our dua..... the majority of muslims, this is not the case... they all face towards the holy kaaba and perform salaat.

Now as per ismailis point of view you're right god is everywhere but according to the allegiance paid to rasool[saw] most muslims face the holy mosque as commanded by our rasool[saw]

Just like we ismailis paid/gave allegiance to imam of the time, muslims turn towards the holy kaaba and its their way of showing allegiance to allah[swt] and rasool[saw] and thats the reason why I said we should have a pluralistic view on this topic.

[zznoor]

This topic agakhani bhai is not related just to ismailis only....we are discussing this in general and as we know that the majority of muslims around the world face holy kaaba and this is very important.

Absolutely, I totally agree with you on your both points mentioned above, first point; this topic is not related to Ismailis only absolutely right and second topic; majority of Muslims of this world are facing holy Ka'baa and pray namaz, I never denied this brother, and I mentioned in my post that I don't have any intention to offend their belief, but the question here is, if human being goes in moon or another planets (and they will one of days) then how they can locate the Ka'baa Sharif? will they built another ka'baa over there?
Second question, Does Allahtala only accept namaz of those "NAMAZIS" who pray their namaz facing ka'baa only?
What would happen if I don't face ka'baa and pray my namaz, does Allahtala will accept it or not?
I already gave my answer with the story of that saint who unknowingly put his legs towards Ka'baa, but what is your answer?

Br Agakhani
I do not think in my or your lifetime Muslims will go to other planet so we need not worry about praying direction and crate controversy.
Muslims are commanded to face Kabba(not black stone) while they pray fird prayer. Muslim Umma includes 5 Madhabs. Only Ismaili Muslims are debating about prayer direction.
Yes according to Muslim belief not praying fird Namaz toward Kaaba intentionally negates that prayer.

I mentioned in my post that I don't have any intention to offend their belief,

It seem you are enjoying discussing this over and over.

I already gave my answer with the story of that saint who unknowingly put his legs towards Ka'baa, but what is your answer?

Story about Guru Nanak is used to make fun at Muslims. Why did he even go there? When you are guest in Allah's house, you should have spme respect.
BTW if you do not believe in Hajj as pillar of Islam then you should not go there also.

[Admin]

I don't know why the argument that according to "Ismailis", God is Everywhere.. I thought this is common to all the religion and does the Quran not say that whatever direction you turn, He is everywhere?

[zznoor]

I don't know why the argument that according to "Ismailis", God is Everywhere.. I thought this is common to all the religion and does the Quran not say that whatever direction you turn, He is everywhere?

correct

but a muslim is required to face Kaaba when offering ritual Namaaz.

[Shakir Quran 2:150] And from whatsoever place you come forth, turn your face towards the Sacred Mosque; and wherever you are turn your faces towards it, so that people shall have no accusation against you, except such of them as are unjust; so do not fear them, and fear Me, that I may complete My favor on you and that you may walk on the right course.

[agakhani]

zznoor,

That is true Guru Nanak was big hater of Muslims and therefore he started a new religion but he was born as a Muslim, as long as the above story is concerned I read his name in one book while other says that the saint who slept in ka'baa was a Muslim saint, I can not recall his name right now but I sure can find out if some one want to know.

Only Ismaili Muslims are debating about prayer direction.

May be some but not all Ismailis, why? let me give you few example for this,
1, On the auspicious occasions of Eid-ul-Adha and Eid-ul Fitra many Ismailis also goes in mosque and pray their namaz with other Muslims brothers facing Ka'baa Sharif even though they are Ismailis.
2, Our Imam also insist us to go mosque and pray Namaz with other Muslin brothers, on and off.
3, During the time of our 48 Imam all (SHAMSHI) Ismailis from Punjab province used to go in Sunny mosque (not in Jamat Khanas) and pray their namaz over there with SUNNAT WAL JAMAT and they were Ismailis and they still are.
4, Before our old Du'a introduced by one of our Pir Sadardin all Ismailis were praying namaz, so obviously they must have to prayed their namaz facing ka'baa Sharif according the hidayat.
5, Our 48 Imam Sultan Mohammad Shah ( s.a.) prayed namaz with other Muslim brothers many time in India and Pakistan in mosque, so does our current 49 Imam doing, you can find many photos of these two imams praying namaz in Sunny or Shia mosque, so basically neither we Ismailis oppose that we should not pray our namaz facing Ka'baa nor we want to debate for that because we respect the hidayat of Allah, but yes we Ismalis believe that Allah is in every direction, so if you pray your namaz not facing Ka'baa Sharif it still reach to Allahbarhaktala.

Below are few slogan:-
"Ismailis are Muslim first and Ismailis second".
" Islam is our religion and 'Ismaili' is our sect like other 73 different Muslims sects to worship Almighty Allah but we all are brothers and sisters.
I think and hope that I explained you well that we Ismailis are not debaters, thinking that you are non- Ismaili and if you are then please pardon me.

[shiraz.virani]

Zznoor is correct !!!....And the verse that he/she quoted from the holy quran supports his/her point of view and I totally agree with that !!

@ Admin bhai, this is the reason why I said this topic is not related to ismailis only, I did not said that to offend anyone but rather have a pluralistic view on this


Agakhani bhai said :

zznoor,

That is true Guru Nanak was big hater of Muslims and therefore he started a new religion but he was born as a Muslim, as long as the above story is concerned I read his name in one book while other says that the saint who slept in ka'baa was a Muslim saint, I can not recall his name right now but I sure can find out if some one want to know.

Are yaar agakhani bhai I just told you not to spread hatred about different faiths and here you are talking about how shri Guru Nanek Sahebji was a hater of musalmaans ??

Shri Guru Nanak Sahebji was a very softspoken person and his message was love and peace !! ...He is the one who challenged the indian caste system that existed during that time....He's the one who faught for womans rights and promoted education for all by introducing gurmukhi script... He believed that integrity, respect and trust between different communities would lead to dignity for all people.

But his biggest contribution to mankind was the teaching of "science of the Word" (Naam) which unlike other science disciplines is a perfect science which forms the subject matter of 1430 pages of the Adi Granth compiled and composed by the Sikh prophets – "The ten Nanaks". This gift of Naam was the ultimate in Sikh mysticism . It has a very pure and special message for the whole world in that by communion with the Word ( Shabad) shall be attained the vision unattainable- the personal realization of God, and hence the sole and sure way to salvation. Sikhism is thus a super monotheistic faith.

Shabad in sikhism is nothing but the BOL in ismailism
Naam in sikhism is nothing but the way of understanding the word of god

There are many similarities between islam and sikhism and most of all is their monotheistic outlook.

Who laid the foundation of golden temple ??

The foundation stone of the historic building was laid by a non-Sikh. The Guru gave the task of initiating the building to a Muslim Saint Hazrat Mian Mir ji of Lahore in December 1588. Can you imagine Julius II the Pope who asked Michaelangelo to redesign the Vatican asking him to find a Jewish Rabi to lay its cornerstone? The Guru had been asked by the previous Guru to find the Holiest man in India to lay the stone for the Gurdwara. Guru Arjan in choosing his friend Hazrat Mian Mir ji to lay the stone showed the world the true message of religion, promoting Interfaith dialogue and interaction.



What did guruji said in the court of Akbar :

"Birth and caste are of no avail before God. It is ones deeds which make or unmake a man. To exploit ignorant people with superstitions and to call it religion is a sacrilege against God and man. To worship the infinite, formless and absolute God in the form of a totem, an image or an insignificant time-bound object of nature; to lead people to beleive that they can wash away their sins, not through compassion and self-surrender, but through ablutions; to insist upon special diets-what to eat and what not to eat; to say that a certain language and dress allows accesss to God and to condemn masses of human beings, men, women and children, to the status of sub-humans, who are not even allowed to learn to read the scriptures that they are told rule their lives; never allowed to enter a house of worship; who are allowed to do only the lowest degrading work, is to tear man apart from man. This is not religion nor is it religion to deny the world by becoming an ascetic, for it is in the world alone that man can find his spiritual possibilities."

Impressed by guruji , emperor akbar dismissed all the charges against sikhs.

Ram Das = Servant of god

[agakhani]

I just told you not to spread hatred about different faiths and here you are talking about how shri Guru Nanek Sahebji was a hater of musalmaans ??

Shiraz Sir, It is not hidden any more in history, history is loaded about Shikh's hatred towards Muslims, but since you accused me third time that I am spreading hatred towards other religions, (which I don't, you wont fin in my any posts) then I should say helplessly that yes, they were big hatred towards Muslim and history is solid proof for that, history is crying loudly and showing that how good Guru Nanak, Guru Govind singh and other gurus were towards Muslims and Hindus?, I can refer you as many books as you want, read it and decide by your self and be your own judge rather then read in Wikipedia and goggling in internet..... but below is my own experience with one of my costumer :-
Once I asked a question to one my Shikh costumer, why are you growing your beard and hair? keep Kripal, and Kanga with you all time , and wear bandage and turban? first he hesitate to answer me but when I forced him and told him that I will not mind just tell me the true reason behind it, then he told me that all Shikhs are taking oath to kill all the Muslims on this earth and before this not happen all Shikhs including their so called Sahebjis also will keep doing this; i.e. keep growing beard and hair, keep kripal with them, and wear bandage and turban e.t.c..

That means they can say any thing towards Muslims, they can takes oath to vanish all Muslims ( which will never happen) on this earth, there is no problem for that but when we say something towards them then hatred comes !!??

Iska matalab to yeh hua ki "unka khoon khoon hai aur hamara khoon pani"
انکا خون خون اور ہمارا خون پانی they can say any thing but we can't!!! I would not have told the above story and criticized them if you were not accused ( this is not first time but this one is third time) me or made helpless that I am spreading hatred, now this is my challenge to you find my any post in which I had criticized any religion not only Shikh but any religion Hindu, Christian, Jews, Buddhist and if you find please let me know this is my challenge brother Shiraz to you.

[agakhani]

While reading some older posts in this forum, I found one interesting and related story ( "ka'baa') of brother Nagib, I copied it and past it here as Nagib wrote except one change I made in word "Tekari" instead of Takri.

Nagib wrote :-

When I went to Karachi in 1981, I was told the following anecdote:

Mowlana Shah Karim visited the Sulan Muhammad Shah Takri (tekari) in Karachi with some leaders. From the top, he asked them where is the Qaba? The leaders started looking east and west, searching for direction but could not reply.

One of the caretaker [he was from Hunza] was summoned and he was asked the same question. I felt at the feet of Hazar Imam and kissed-it. Crying loudly, he said Khudawind, here is the Qaba. Hazar Imam said, you are right.

[zznoor]

While reading some older posts in this forum, I found one interesting and related story ( "ka'baa') of brother Nagib, I copied it and past it here as Nagib wrote except one change I made in word "Tekari" instead of Takri.

Nagib wrote :-

When I went to Karachi in 1981, I was told the following anecdote:

Mowlana Shah Karim visited the Sulan Muhammad Shah Takri (tekari) in Karachi with some leaders. From the top, he asked them where is the Qaba? The leaders started looking east and west, searching for direction but could not reply.

One of the caretaker [he was from Hunza] was summoned and he was asked the same question. I felt at the feet of Hazar Imam and kissed-it. Crying loudly, he said Khudawind, here is the Qaba. Hazar Imam said, you are right.

When non Ismaili Muslims read anecdote like this they cringe. Touching and kissing feet of another human being (even of Imams) is no no for them.