Depicting Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)...

[shiraz.virani]

Frankly one should not expect much from "penguins" who have been "sedated" by petro dollars....your friend is away until tuesday....maybe he has gone to look for his "paradise"....lol ! says I throw "garbage" when I methodically negate his arguments...and his polemics !

Hahahahaha.....zina khan......the problem is you dont stick to the topic....what we are discussing is DRINKING .....now read your posts @ above and see how they are related to DRINKING ??

If you cant answer whether drinking is legal.....If you cant answer whether selling alcohol is legal or not....then why the fudge would you dump unnecessary garbage which is not even related to the current topic and expect me to answer your out of the topic questions ??

Most of your questions are targeted for sunnis.....Im not sunni.....but anyways this is for the later part....kindly stick to DRINKING as it is the current topic under discussion

And this is the typical problem with ismailis like you.....when a person comes up with the doubt , instead of answering those questions you name them non ismailis, viruu, penguin, termite and so on.....when you cant answer one question.....just say you dont have an answer....why dump garbage after garbage which is not even related to the question ??

And as far as petro dollars is concerned , im thankful to allah[swt] that he has given me and my family good health/wealth and peace.....I dont need no petro dollars nor Im any spiritual leader to accept dasond/tithe or anything else to feed myself and my family

[shiraz.virani]

shiraz.virani wrote:

@ Parru

I call my father = father because he deserves that respect.....but when YOU dont have any respect [parru] what kind of respect do you expect from me ??


I never asked nor expect you to respect anyone. Arrogants like you have no respect for others. I asked you what you call your father when you called me "Munna Parru". Munna means kid, right? So I asked if it ever occured to you that I may be your father's age. Not that I am any older than you are, brother. I called you son because you act like a 12 years old.

shiraz.virani wrote:

Whenever I have any doubts or questions or when Maherali bhai /Admin bhai or anyone tries to say something or respond to my qustion ....you got problems .....You have a habit of sticking your old *** nose into others affairs.....why ?? ...Did I come to you with a doubt,question or asked you help me with something ?? NO !!!!


This is an open forum and every one who wants to participate in dialog can do so without any formal invitation. I mainly challenge you for your flawed understanding. I also point your self-contradictions out to you and others. Like I said this is an open forum and jumping in is not poking my *** nose into others' affairs, like you said.

shiraz.virani wrote:

When maherali bhai posts an article you log in as TRET and say ....O please stop copy/pasting the whole article as its annoying and what not.....and when I copy/paste something you log in as PARDESI because I ignored TRET[you] right from day one ....I know you're getting old but its none of your business to interfere in the matter where I dont need your help...If I do I would let you know


I am not TRET or anyone else. I am pardesi and only pardesi. Get this through your thick skull. I am not the only one getting old here. We all are! So learn to deal with the reality. My purpose is to oppose you when you act mischievious, not to lend or offer a helping hand. I know quite well what you are up to.

shiraz.virani wrote:

You stick your nose in my issues and say "show me some respect" ?? .....I dont need to show you any respect because I never asked your help nor have you ever helped me.....you were anti shiraz.virani and that can be seen from your comments so dont talk about respect !!


Your issues? You are absolutely right. You have issues that need to be addressed by us. Like I said I don't expect you to show any respect to any body so don't fool yourself thinking I asked for respect.

shiraz.virani wrote:

And Im not paranoid of TRET aka A1337 aka PARRU ....Im just concerned about how my comments regarding 1st-47th imam[as] can be mistreated and misjudged by an old man whose old enough to understand


Everyone knows what your views are re Ismaili Imams, be it 1st to 47th or 48th and 49th. I have not "mistreated" or "misjudged" anything. I have simply confronted you and asked you to explain. I have not even started yet, wise guy! You said that real Islam was practiced until the 47th Imam and then came the 48th and he made soooo many changes and transformed the religion into business and that you and others like you who were getting educated were going back to the practices during the time of the 46th Imam. What is one to make of this? You explain, I don't know!

You also forged the following statement I made in one of my previous posts. You changed the word "Iman" that I used to "Imams" as highlighted below. If you meant to copy/paste part of my post, how did this word get changed from a four letter word "Iman" to a five letter word "Imams"? Please explain.

Quote:
Yeah! Shia Imami Ismaili Nizari muslim who stopped believing in the Shia Ismaili Nizari Imams at 47, skipped the 48th, then realized no lets get back in the fold so you can hollow out the Imams of the Ismailis from inside like a termite so started to pretent like you really believe in the 49th Imam.


The actual post was as below:

Quote:
Yeah! Shia Imami Ismaili Nizari muslim who stopped believing in the Shia Ismaili Nizari Imams at 47, skipped the 48th, then realized no lets get back in the fold so you can hollow out the Imans of the Ismailis from inside like a termite so started to pretent like you really believe in the 49th Imam.


First I had problem with you copy/pasting and paddling others' idealogy as your own. Then I had problem with your plagiarising. And now changing peoples' posts thinking they will not notice? Your credibility, if there was any, is washed out. You are finished Mr. Virani.

ADMIN, I request you to please take note of the above mischievious act on part of this liar and take proper action. You have been too easy on him. Its time you put your foot down.

shiraz.virani wrote:
Can you show me my post where I said I treat imams[as] as termites ?? Can you show me where I said I skipped the 48th imam ?? .....Can you show me where I said Im not believing in the present imam ??


You have really lost it all. I never said that you said that you treat Imams as termites. I referred to you as a termite within our midst. See! Another mischievious post just to take a swipe at the Ismaili Imams by using derogatory term for the Imam. When you said the 48th Imam made so many changes in the religion and turned it into a business it is obvious that you question the Imam and his authority. This sentence alone makes you a non believer in the Imamat of the 48th Imam. Imam's can not be questioned or challenged, especially when it comes to matters of religion, by the murid. The moment you question or challenge him, you become a non-believer! So there you skipped the Imamat of the 48th Imam. Now without belief in the 48th Imam you can not be a believer in the Imamat of the 49th Imam. You can not pick and choose your Imams. You, sir, are therefore considered out of fold of Ismailism. I have said before, your questions lack intelligence and your arguments lack substance. The above two questions are prime example. Need I say more?

shiraz.virani wrote:

Well I dont mind you calling me VIRU.....my mukhi calls me VIRU , my family calls me VIRU so call me whatever you want old man ....but onething is for sure ....now that iam convinced that you're that retarded TRET....my way of dealing with you shall be same PURRRru


I would stick to calling you Shiraz Virani. As for me being TRET, you are only playing mind games with yourself. Keep on!

I am, and will always be

pardesi


Ok old f*rt ....start the new topic on this forum , Its high time you should know who'z your daddy

Well I would like to apologise to you for what I said here because this is not me.....I understand you are elder than me and I shouldnt be using such kind of language against you or anyone who is elder than me either jokingly or any other time.

I do apologise and I hope you'll forgive me as I do act childish sometimes....But we can still open a new topic called PROBLEM and may be you can help me out ??.....Will you ?

[zina.khan]

Viru...How many times do I have to repeat that I have answered even on drinking....seems like you are once again trying to mitigate your own losing battle against me....do you want me to copy paste here and show that I have responded....

Admin.....Just in case you missed it...

This is what Viru just said..."I dont need no petro dollars nor Im any spiritual leader to accept dasond/tithe or anything else to feed myself and my family .."

So I was right !! Now Viru tell us the truth....concede !!!! This misleading expression like "Our Imam" etc ...was just crap....you were pretending and almost fooled everyone here....see I know how to expose you....at Shiachat you tried the same trick....started off pretending you were a Sh'ia locking horns with me....but soon I smoked you out and then the rest is history...

Khums (one fifth)

We read in the Holy Quran:

Know that whatever of a thing you acquire, a fifth of it is for
Allah, for the Messenger, for the near relative, and the orphans
and the needy and they way farer ..... (Quran 8:41)

Thus Khums (literally one fifth of gain) should go to six people:

1. Allah
2. His Messenger
3. The near relative of the Messenger (Ahlul-Bayt)
4. Orphan
5. needy
6. the person who has fallen away from his home-town (and has no money to comeback to his own place).

The portion of Allah goes to His Messenger to be spent for the path of
Allah. After the Prophet passed away, and at the time of the first
Imams, the first 3 portions used to go to the Imam of Ahlul-Bayt to be
spent in the path of Allah.....so tell me ...did the people at that time give Khums to "feed" the Prophet and his family?....isn't it clear now that you were beating around the bush....you have now come down to your real motive....

Imam Shah Mustan sir bi'llÀh (may his wisdom he exalted!) uttered with his blessed mouth:

The (real) believer (mu'min) is one who puts aside, properly and correctly, the tithe of his gains (mÀl) which forms the property of the Imam of the time, and hands it over to the latter.


The rule (qanun) must be followed that he should divide into ten parts every gain and every form of income (manÀfi' wa 'mudÀkhil) which he receives from that which God the All-High gives to His slaves in the way of subsistence and daily bread, and one of those ten parts belongs to the Imam. He must take out that portion, and submit it to the abode of the King of mankind, MawlÀna MurtazÀ Ali, (the Imam) who is living and present, delivering it complete (kÀmil).

Khums (i.e., only Shias of Ali follow this Sunnah of the Prophet)...i.e.
only 20% of all Muslims follow this Sunnah and the Quranic dictate...

In the verse of Khums mentioned above "ghanimtum" has been used which has
been translated as 'you acquire'. As explained above, it means, 'certain
items which a person acquires as wealth'. What are these certain items?
According to the hadiths of the Ahl al-Bayt Imams, the items that are
eligible for Khums are seven, and they are

1. the profit or the surplus of income
2. the legitimate wealth which is mixed with the illegitimate
wealth
3. mines and minerals
4. the precious stones obtained from sea by diving
5. treasures
6. the land which a dhimmi kafir buys from a muslim
7. the spoils of war.

However there are some people who interpret the word ghanimtum as 'whatever
of a thing that you acquire as spoils of war', thus confining the
obligation of khums to the spoils of war only. The interpretation is based
on ignorance of

* the Arabic langauage
* the history of khums
* the Islamic laws
* and the interpretation of the Quran

Please bear in mind that the word ghanimtum has been derived from al-
ghanimah.


=================================
The meaning of the word Ghanimtum
=================================
The famous Arabic dictionary of al-Munjid (Father Louis Maluf of Beirut)
states, al-ghanim and al-ghanimah means

* what is taken from the fighting enemies by force
* all earnings generally

Furthermore the saying "al-ghunm bil ghurm" means that profit stands
against expenses, i.e, the owner is the sole proprieter of the profit and
nobody shares it with him, therefore only he bears all the expenses and
risk. For the readers satisfaction, they are also encouraged to look up
dictionaries like Lisan al-Arab and al-Qamus.

This implies that in the Arabic langauge ' al-ghanimah ' has two meanings,
one is the spoils of war, and the other is profit. The above quoted proverb
also proves profit is not an uncommon meaning. When a word in the Quran can
interpreted in more than one way, it is incumbent upon the muslims to seek
guidance from the Holy Prophet (PBUH&HF) and the Ahl al-Bayt.

====================
The History of Khums
====================
Khums is one of those things which were introduced by Abdul Muttalib (RA)
the grandfather of the Prophet (PBUH&HF), and it continued in Islam when it
was revealed in Quran. Acting upon a command of God given to him in his
dream, when Abdul Muttalib rediscovered the well of Zamzam, he found in it
many valuable things that were buried in it very remote past by the
Ismailites when they feared that their enemies would usurp them. When Abdul
Muttalib found that buried treasure, he gave away one fifth ( literally
khums ) in the way of God and kept the remaining four fifth to himself.
Then it became a custom in his family to and after the Hijrah of the
Prophet (PBUH&HF) the same system was incorporated in Islam. Thus the first
khums was not given from the spoils of war, but from a buried treasure (
which is one of the seven items eligible for khums ).

================
The Islamic Laws
================
Not a single Islamic school confines the meaning of ghanimah to the spoils
of war. In addition to the spoils of war the following items are subjected
to khums

* minerals: eligible in the Hanafi and the Shia
* buried treasure: eligible for all the muslims.

As already mentioned earlier, the interpretation of the Quran must be based
on the teachings of the Ahl al-Bayt. The word ghanimah in the verse under
discussion has been clearly interpreted as "the earned profit" (al-
fa'idatul muktasabah) by our Imams.


=====================
Some Sunni References
=====================
To conclude, we can say that the word ghanima was never treated as being
confined to the spoils of war by any Islamic school; and as far as our
Imams are concerned, it meant many things besides the spoils of war right
from the day of Imam Ali ( peace be upon him ), as many authentic
traditions show.

What has been quoted above is substantiated from the practice of the Holy
Prophet (PBUH&HF) as well. For example when the Prophet (PBUH&HF) sent Amr
bin Hazm to Yemen, he wrote instructions in which, among many other things,
he says ' ... to gather khums of Allah from the gains [ of Yemenis ].
Please refer to

* Ibn Khaldun, Tarikh Volume 2 part II p54 ( Beirut 1971 )
* Ibn Kathir, al-Bidayah wan Nihayah Volume 5 p76-77 ( Beirut 1966 )
* Ibn Hisham, Sirah Volume 4 p179 ( Beirut 1975 )

And when the tribe of Bani Kilal of Yemen sent Khums to the Prophet, the
later acknowledges it by saying, ' Your messenger has returned and you have
paid the khums of Allah from the gains ( al-ghanaim ). ' Please refer to

* Abu Ubayd, al-Amwal p13 ( Beirut 1981 )
* al-Hakim, al-Mustadrak Volume 1 p395 ( Hyderabad 1340 A.H )
* Jafar Murtada al-Amili, al-Sahih fi Sirat al-Nabi Volume 3 p309
( Qum 1983 )

"..Woe to the infidels who do not pay the Zakat.." says Allah (swt)

"..Your own self is the evil dictator..." says Allah (swt)

"...Don't you see these people who take their passions to be their god..."
says Allah (swt)..

The Prophet said..." it does not come out of their hands because they do not relieve themselves from the clutches of seventeen devils, every one of whomholds them back and orders them not to pay..."

Allah says..." BEHOLD you are those who are invited to expend part of your subsistence for the support of God's religion...but there are some of you who are NIGGARDLY and then God says..."whosoever is NIGGARDLY is Niggardly towards his own soul...God is self sufficient and you are NEEDY...if ye turn back, HE will substitute another people in your stead who shall NOT be like you..." (and so you see them being replaced gracefully....)

Even Allah disdains them !

Even Imam Jafar as Sadiq has said..." None of the duties of God is more severe than the return of "amanat"..to HIM from your property..."

Viru....wait a little more....you will see the results of your own evil....

"..No good will accrue to him, and his condition will always be sinful, because God is displeased with him and dissatisfied, and therefore gives him only to associate with evildoers.


All this is due to the fact that the miser has the heart of the miser and he does not contain kindness, affection and love and as he does not sacrifice his property in the way of God, spending it for God's sake, his property becomes his own traitor. His heart is the house of the Devil, and the accursed Devil is in the heart of the traitor (munÀfiq).


Whenever a traitor is satisfied, know that it is Satan who is pleased. The traitor is pleased by those things which also please Satan. The heart of Satan and that of a traitor are the same, they share each other's sorrows and joys. Therefore whenever you see a traitor (munÀfiq) happy, you have seen Satan happy. Whenever a man does something which gladdens Satan, darkness and obscurity (dulmat-hÀ) appear in his heart and the "houses" (khÀna-hÀ) of his heart become dark. His intelligence and reason also become darkened and spoiled.

The traitor (munÀfiq) is the man who does not recognize the Lord of his well-being, that is to say, the Imam of the time. And whoever does not recognize the Lord of his real wellbeing
(ni'mat-i HaqiqÄ), who causes trouble to people, who aggrieves the believer's heart, and is the ill-wisher of humanity, he is a traitor...."

Viru...Allah (swt) has promised everyone a "term appointed"....and so your run is until then....and then there is a phase which is prior to death...a phase soon thereafter culminating in the interrogation in the grave by the angels who are stern....then barzakh....and so good luck !


[/b]

[shiraz.virani]

Viru...How many times do I have to repeat that I have answered even on drinking....seems like you are once again trying to mitigate your own losing battle against me....do you want me to copy paste here and show that I have responded....

What ??? when ??.....1st you inspire people to drink alcohol because they'll be served alcohol in jannah.....then you inspire people to sell alcohol because according to you theres nothing mentioned whether one can sell alcohol or not even though you know alcoholism is a disease

It was just 2 simple question that I asked you and look how much garbage you have dumped on this forum sister !!!!......Instead of staying on track you jumped from drinking/selling alcohol to SEX....then from SEX to QIBLAH.....from QIBLAH to petro dollars....from petro dollars to now zakat/sadaqa and still going on !!!

Admin.....Just in case you missed it...

This is what Viru just said..."I dont need no petro dollars nor Im any spiritual leader to accept dasond/tithe or anything else to feed myself and my family .."

So I was right !! Now Viru tell us the truth....concede !!!! This misleading expression like "Our Imam" etc ...was just crap....you were pretending and almost fooled everyone here....see I know how to expose you....at Shiachat you tried the same trick....started off pretending you were a Sh'ia locking horns with me....but soon I smoked you out and then the rest is history...

Oh come on !!!......I havent said anything against the imam....Im not a priest/baba/agakhan or any spiritual leader to accept donations from my people....what is wrong with this ???

And what shia chat ?? .....I dont have a habit of poking my nose just like you on other websites or forums....Im happy to stay here and learn and ask......I have been on this forum for a looong time so dont give admin that bull saying oh look what hez saying and what not !!.....All you have exposed is your foolishness by dumping garbage on this forum which is usually copy/pasted from ishna shari websites

Khums (one fifth)

We read in the Holy Quran:

Know that whatever of a thing you acquire, a fifth of it is for
Allah, for the Messenger, for the near relative, and the orphans
and the needy and they way farer ..... (Quran 8:41)

Thus Khums (literally one fifth of gain) should go to six people:

1. Allah
2. His Messenger
3. The near relative of the Messenger (Ahlul-Bayt)
4. Orphan
5. needy
6. the person who has fallen away from his home-town (and has no money to comeback to his own place).

The portion of Allah goes to His Messenger to be spent for the path of
Allah. After the Prophet passed away, and at the time of the first
Imams, the first 3 portions used to go to the Imam of Ahlul-Bayt to be
spent in the path of Allah.....so tell me ...did the people at that time give Khums to "feed" the Prophet and his family?....isn't it clear now that you were beating around the bush....you have now come down to your real motive....

Hehehehehe.....premarital sex.khan has once again quoted only half of the verse leaving the first portion where allah[swt] talks about spoils of war ......Why change the words of the verse ??...........Read the holy surah again you fool !!!

8:41 And know that whatever ye take as spoils of war, lo! a fifth thereof is for Allah, and for the messenger and for the kinsman (who hath need) and orphans and the needy and the wayfarer, if ye believe in Allah and that which We revealed unto Our slave on the Day of Discrimination, the day when the two armies met. And Allah is Able to do all things.

Chapter 8 is all about spoils of war and booty

And know that whatever spoils you have taken, [you have] seized from the disbelievers by force, the fifth of it is for God, to have it dispensed as He will, and for the Messenger and for the kinsmen, the kinsmen of the Prophet (s) from among the Banū Hāshim and the Banū [‘Abd] al-Muttalib, and the orphans, children of Muslims, those whose fathers have passed away and are in poverty, and the needy, those Muslims in [dire] need, and the traveller, those Muslims cut off during travel — in other words it [the fifth] is due to the Prophet (s) and [those of] these four categories in the way that he used to apportion it: a fifth of the fifth for each one and the remaining four fifths for those who had captured the spoils, if you believe in God, then be aware of that, and that which (wa-mā is a supplement to bi’Llāhi, ‘in God’) We sent down upon Our servant, Muhammad (s), in the way of angels and signs, on the Day of Discrimination, that is, the day of [the battle of] Badr, which discriminated between truth and falsehood, the day the two armies, the Muslims and the believers, met. And God has power over all things, including giving you victory despite your being few and their being greater in number.

So how is it that a fool like you would copy/paste something that is related to WAR and say look allah[swt] wants us to feed rasool[saw] and imams[as] ??? ......Foool !!!!!!

Imam Shah Mustan sir bi'llÀh (may his wisdom he exalted!) uttered with his blessed mouth:

The (real) believer (mu'min) is one who puts aside, properly and correctly, the tithe of his gains (mÀl) which forms the property of the Imam of the time, and hands it over to the latter.

Correct !!!.....But the verse that you copy/paste does not represent what Imam shah mustansir billah [as] is saying......the verse in the holy quran that talks about Sadaqa is the one that imam[as] is talking about.....Its the verse in which allah[swt] commands rasool[saw] to take sadaqa from people so that he can cleanse them and pray for them.....this is why imams[as] accepts tithes from ismailis !!!.....and not because of the very you have fooolishly copy/pasted [ that too skipping the 1st sentence ]

The rule (qanun) must be followed that he should divide into ten parts every gain and every form of income (manÀfi' wa 'mudÀkhil) which he receives from that which God the All-High gives to His slaves in the way of subsistence and daily bread, and one of those ten parts belongs to the Imam. He must take out that portion, and submit it to the abode of the King of mankind, MawlÀna MurtazÀ Ali, (the Imam) who is living and present, delivering it complete (kÀmil).

Yes again its talking about sadaqa here and not the spoils of war or 1/5 th crap that you want ismailis to believe in.....the verse that talks about sadaqa is completely different from that of the verse you have copy/pasted

Khums (i.e., only Shias of Ali follow this Sunnah of the Prophet)...i.e.
only 20% of all Muslims follow this Sunnah and the Quranic dictate...

In the verse of Khums mentioned above "ghanimtum" has been used which has
been translated as 'you acquire'. As explained above, it means, 'certain
items which a person acquires as wealth'. What are these certain items?
According to the hadiths of the Ahl al-Bayt Imams, the items that are
eligible for Khums are seven, and they are

1. the profit or the surplus of income
2. the legitimate wealth which is mixed with the illegitimate
wealth
3. mines and minerals
4. the precious stones obtained from sea by diving
5. treasures
6. the land which a dhimmi kafir buys from a muslim
7. the spoils of war.

Stop copy/pasting from wikipedia as the source can be edited at any point of time !!......Khums is usually applied only and only during war circumstances....like after the war has been won by muslims...the booty[ wealth,live stock, stones,mines etc etc etc] should be divided in 1/5th....thats only during the war !!!......Its related to spoils of war !!!!.....Read the aayat before copy/pasting it !!!

Ismailis give alms as mentioned in the holy quran.....it is also mentioned in bible in Luke chapter 11:41 ....luke 21:1-4 and so on !!!

Stop misquoting aayats !!!!!

However there are some people who interpret the word ghanimtum as 'whatever
of a thing that you acquire as spoils of war', thus confining the
obligation of khums to the spoils of war only. The interpretation is based
on ignorance of
* the Arabic langauage
* the history of khums
* the Islamic laws
* and the interpretation of the Quran

Please bear in mind that the word ghanimtum has been derived from al-
ghanimah.

=================================
The meaning of the word Ghanimtum
=================================
The famous Arabic dictionary of al-Munjid (Father Louis Maluf of Beirut)
states, al-ghanim and al-ghanimah means

* what is taken from the fighting enemies by force
* all earnings generally

Furthermore the saying "al-ghunm bil ghurm" means that profit stands
against expenses, i.e, the owner is the sole proprieter of the profit and
nobody shares it with him, therefore only he bears all the expenses and
risk. For the readers satisfaction, they are also encouraged to look up
dictionaries like Lisan al-Arab and al-Qamus.

This implies that in the Arabic langauge ' al-ghanimah ' has two meanings,
one is the spoils of war, and the other is profit. The above quoted proverb
also proves profit is not an uncommon meaning. When a word in the Quran can
interpreted in more than one way, it is incumbent upon the muslims to seek
guidance from the Holy Prophet (PBUH&HF) and the Ahl al-Bayt.

The website where you copy/pasted all this garbage also mentions that zakat and charity is forbidden for the descendants of rasool[saw]....How come you dint show this to the readers ??

http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter6b/4.html

Even Allah disdains them !

Oh really ?? and does allah[swt] not disdain from those who copy/paste aayats out of context ???

Even Imam Jafar as Sadiq has said..." None of the duties of God is more severe than the return of "amanat"..to HIM from your property..."

And that is sadaqa sister and not khums !!!

Sadaqah (voluntary charity) is a virtuous deed in Islam. In fact, it is considered as a proof of one’s eeman (faith). The Prophet (s.a.w.s.) sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam said in the following authentic hadeeth:

Abu Malik al-Ashari (r.a.) (radhi Allahu anhu) narrated that Allah’s Messenger (s.a.w.s.) said: “Cleanliness is half of faith. Alhamdulillah (Praise be to Allah) fills the scale. SubhanAllah (Glory be to Allah) and Alhamdulillah (Praise be to Allah) fill up what is between the heavens and the earth. Prayer is a light. Charity is proof (of one’s faith). Endurance is a brightness and the Qur‘an is a proof on your behalf or against you. All men go out early in the morning and sell themselves, thereby setting themselves free or destroying themselves.” (Muslim, 432)

Viru....wait a little more....you will see the results of your own evil....

"..No good will accrue to him, and his condition will always be sinful, because God is displeased with him and dissatisfied, and therefore gives him only to associate with evildoers.

I guess that above aayat suits you best !!....For its your fitrat to copy/paste things of which you have no knowledge

All this is due to the fact that the miser has the heart of the miser and he does not contain kindness, affection and love and as he does not sacrifice his property in the way of God, spending it for God's sake, his property becomes his own traitor. His heart is the house of the Devil, and the accursed Devil is in the heart of the traitor (munÀfiq).

Correct !!!....Munafiq always try to misterpret/chew up the verse and often brain wash innocent muslims....may god save us from such munafiqs

Whenever a traitor is satisfied, know that it is Satan who is pleased. The traitor is pleased by those things which also please Satan. The heart of Satan and that of a traitor are the same, they share each other's sorrows and joys. Therefore whenever you see a traitor (munÀfiq) happy, you have seen Satan happy. Whenever a man does something which gladdens Satan, darkness and obscurity (dulmat-hÀ) appear in his heart and the "houses" (khÀna-hÀ) of his heart become dark. His intelligence and reason also become darkened and spoiled.

I want you to read @ above and use it on yourslef sometimes

The traitor (munÀfiq) is the man who does not recognize the Lord of his well-being, that is to say, the Imam of the time. And whoever does not recognize the Lord of his real wellbeing
(ni'mat-i HaqiqÄ), who causes trouble to people, who aggrieves the believer's heart, and is the ill-wisher of humanity, he is a traitor...."

The traitor is the one who recognises the imam as demi god.....the traitor is the one who treats sadaqa as khumms.....the traitor is the one who teaches something that is irrelevant with the aayat......the traitor is the one who usually copy/pastes on those things that shows them in good light and so on

Viru...Allah (swt) has promised everyone a "term appointed"....and so your run is until then....and then there is a phase which is prior to death...a phase soon thereafter culminating in the interrogation in the grave by the angels who are stern....then barzakh....and so good luck !

Thank you sister !!!....But lets just leave this on allah[swt] and time would tell who was a momin and who was an idol worshipper

[zina.khan]

Viru....by now I think most people know your style is to offer twisted version of the truth...please go back and read properly ....let me repeat and expand....

However there are some people who interpret the word ghanimtum as 'whatever of a thing that you acquire as spoils of war', thus confining the obligation of khums to the spoils of war only. The interpretation is based on ignorance of

* the Arabic langauage
* the history of khums
* the Islamic laws
* and the interpretation of the Quran

Please bear in mind that the word ghanimtum has been derived from al-
ghanimah.


=================================
The meaning of the word Ghanimtum
=================================
The famous Arabic dictionary of al-Munjid (Father Louis Maluf of Beirut)
states, al-ghanim and al-ghanimah means

* what is taken from the fighting enemies by force
* all earnings generally

Furthermore the saying "al-ghunm bil ghurm" means that profit stands
against expenses, i.e, the owner is the sole proprieter of the profit and
nobody shares it with him, therefore only he bears all the expenses and
risk.

For the readers satisfaction, they are also encouraged to look up
dictionaries like Lisan al-Arab and al-Qamus.

This implies that in the Arabic langauge ' al-ghanimah ' has two meanings,
one is the spoils of war, and the other is profit.

The above quoted proverb also proves profit is not an uncommon meaning. When a word in the Quran can interpreted in more than one way, it is incumbent upon the muslims to seek guidance from the Holy Prophet (PBUH&HF) and the Ahl al-Bayt.

====================
The History of Khums
====================
Khums is one of those things which were introduced by Abdul Muttalib (RA)
the grandfather of the Prophet (PBUH&HF), and it continued in Islam when it was revealed in Quran. Acting upon a command of God given to him in his dream, when Abdul Muttalib rediscovered the well of Zamzam, he found in it many valuable things that were buried in it very remote past by the Ismailites when they feared that their enemies would usurp them. When Abdul Muttalib found that buried treasure, he gave away one fifth ( literally khums ) in the way of God and kept the remaining four fifth to himself.

Then it became a custom in his family to and after the Hijrah of the
Prophet (PBUH&HF) the same system was incorporated in Islam. Thus the first khums was not given from the spoils of war, but from a buried treasure ( which is one of the seven items eligible for khums ).

================
The Islamic Laws
================
Not a single Islamic school confines the meaning of ghanimah to the spoils
of war. In addition to the spoils of war the following items are subjected
to khums

* minerals: eligible in the Hanafi and the Shia
* buried treasure: eligible for all the muslims.

As already mentioned earlier, the interpretation of the Quran must be based on the teachings of the Ahl al-Bayt. The word ghanimah in the verse under discussion has been clearly interpreted as "the earned profit" (al- fa'idatul muktasabah) by our Imams.


=====================
Some Sunni References
=====================
To conclude, we can say that the word ghanima was never treated as being confined to the spoils of war by any Islamic school; and as far as our Imams are concerned, it meant many things besides the spoils of war right from the day of Imam Ali ( peace be upon him ), as many authentic
traditions show.

What has been quoted above is substantiated from the practice of the Holy
Prophet (PBUH&HF) as well.

For example when the Prophet (PBUH&HF) sent Amr
bin Hazm to Yemen, he wrote instructions in which, among many other things, he says ' ... to gather khums of Allah from the gains [ of Yemenis ].

Please refer to

* Ibn Khaldun, Tarikh Volume 2 part II p54 ( Beirut 1971 )
* Ibn Kathir, al-Bidayah wan Nihayah Volume 5 p76-77 ( Beirut 1966 )
* Ibn Hisham, Sirah Volume 4 p179 ( Beirut 1975 )

And when the tribe of Bani Kilal of Yemen sent Khums to the Prophet, the
later acknowledges it by saying, ' Your messenger has returned and you have paid the khums of Allah from the gains ( al-ghanaim ). ' Please refer to

* Abu Ubayd, al-Amwal p13 ( Beirut 1981 )
* al-Hakim, al-Mustadrak Volume 1 p395 ( Hyderabad 1340 A.H )
* Jafar Murtada al-Amili, al-Sahih fi Sirat al-Nabi Volume 3 p309
( Qum 1983 )

It is very interesting to note that the Bani Kilal obeyed Prophet's order
and sent the khums of gains to him while no war had taken place between the muslims and the un-believers. This is a clear indication that khums was not restricted by the Prophet (PBUH&HF) to the Spoils of War!

The importance given by the Prophet (PBUH&HF) to the issue of Khums can also be seen in his advice to the delegation of Bani Abdul Qays. It seems that Bani Abdul Qays ( which was a branch of Rabiah ) was not a very strong tribe. More over in order to travel to Medina, they had to cross an area inhabited by the Muzar tribe, which was against the muslims. Consequently, the Bani Abdul Qays could not travel safely to Medina except during the months in which war fare was forbidden according to the Arab custom.

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 4.327 (pages 212-213)
Narrated Ibn Abbas:

The delegates of the tribe of Abdul Qais came and said: `O Allah's
Apostle ! We are from the tribe of Rabia and between us and you stand
stand the infidels of the tribe of Mudar, so we cannot come to you
except in the Haram Months.

So please order us some instructions that
we may apply it to ourselves and also invite our people left behind us
to observe as well. ' The Prophet (PBUH) said: `I order you to do four
(4) things and forbid you to do four (4): I order you to believe in
Allah, that is, to testify that None has the right to be worshipped
but Allah (the Prophet (PBUH) pointed with his hand) ; to offer
prayers perfectly, to pay Zakat, to fast the month of Ramadhan, and to
pay the Khums.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Considering the facts that they travelled in the haram months ( when the
war fare ) was forbidden, the circumstances of the Bani Abdul Qays who were weak and small in numbers ( evident from their travelling in the haram months ), it leaves no room for interpreting the application of khums in the above hadith on the spoils of war exclusively! Please refer for the above hadith to

* Sahih Bukhari Volume 4 pp 212-213 ( Beirut )
* Abu Ubayd, al-Amwal p13 ( Beirut 1981 )
***************************************************************************


More on Khums

The following discussion is taken from Dr. al-Tijani's book, "Ma'a al-
Sadeeqeen -- With The Truthful Ones,", pp 149-153.


To begin with, we must quote the Book of Allah (SWT):

"And know that out of all the booty that ye may acquire, a FIFTH share
is assigned to Allah, and to the Messenger, and to near relatives,
orphans, the needy, and the wayfarer,--if ye do believe in Allah and
in the revelation We sent down to our Servant.....[8:41]"

The above verse is a clear injunction by Allah (SWT), the Creator of the
Universe, to give out a FIFTH (Khums) of our wealth in the way of Allah
(SWT) to the needy, orphans, etc....

Let's continue...

The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: "I command you to do four things: To
believe in Allah (SWT); to establish prayer; to pay Zakat; to fast
Ramadan; and to pay the fifth of all the booty that you acquire for
the sake of Allah (SWT)"

Sunni reference: Shahih al-Bukhari, v4, p44.

Now, the problem with the interpretation of the text is that the word
"Ghaneema -- Booty" is interpreted by the Sunnis as that wealth collected
as part of a war.

That is not an accurate interpretation of the Arabic
word.

The Semitic languages, which Arabic belongs to, are based on the
verb form, not the noun form.

As such, the translation of the word
"Ghaneema" is not all that accurate when the word "booty" is used.

The Shia, in conformity with Allah's (SWT) and His (SWT) Messenger's
(PBUH&HF) orders, pay 20% (a fifth) of their wealth at the end of every
year.

In addition, the grammatical usage of the word "Ghaneema" in Arabic,
as the Shia translate it, means that certain things that a believer
acquires by way of a profit from a legitimate business deal or otherwise,
is considered a "Ghaneema," and becomes subject to the laws and regulations thereof.

Of course there are exclusions. Actually, the Khums is only applicable in
the following areas: First, ANYTHING extracted from the earth like gold,
silver, metal, oil, and other natural elements is subject to the Khums.


The minimum value of that which is extracted from the earth is 20 "dinars", and one "dinar" is equal to 3.45 grams gold in value. If that minimum is not met, then the Khums is not required. Second, ANYTHING by way of hidden treasures, if it meets the minimum value requirements, is also subject to the Khums. Third, ANYTHING extracted from the ocean like pearls, coral, etc..., if it meets the minimum value of 1 dinar, not 20, is also subject to the Khums. Fourth, any EXCESS wealth that has remained for one year untouched is also subject to the Khums. Exclusions to the Khums include, but are not limited to, gifts, prizes, inheritance, a woman's dowry, etc...

The details of the Khums are *VERY* involved, and it is almost always
necessary to seek the advice of a Mujtahid before the Khums is taken out.

The Sunnis have rejected that, EVEN though it is in the Book of Allah
(SWT).

Furthermore, it is narrated in Sahih al-Bukhari, v2, pp 136-137
that the Prophet (PBUH&HF) stated that any wealth that was buried under
the ground in the Days of Ignorance (Ayam al-Jahiliyah) is subject to al-
Khums.

Moreover, Ibn Abbas, THE most trusted narrator of hadith in the
eyes of the Sunnis, said that pearls extracted from the ocean are subject
to the Khums also.

It is apparent, that the Khums is NOT restricted to a booty from a war, as
the Sunnis claim; rather, it extends to all of the above issues.

If a truly Sunni Islamic nation was to be established, it would fall short
of fulfilling its financial obligations because it depends on the Zakat
only, which is only 2.5% of one's wealth.

Realistically speaking, can an
Islamic nation, as the Sunnis contend, survive on 2.5% a year from the
Muslim Ummah?

Can it truly build an infrastructure that would support the
masses?

Can it build hospitals, schools, highways, etc...? No, it CANNOT,
because 2.5% is NOT enough, not by ANY stretch of the imagination.

The Khums also serves another VERY IMPORTANT purpose in the CURRENT Shiite community. It helps the Mujtahids maintain an independence and separation from the political implications which will happen if a religious scholar becomes dependent on the government for his bread and butter.

That is EXTREMELY important. The Sunnis scholars in Muslim countries receive their salaries from the government, which means that they CANNOT utter a word of objection to the policies of the ruler because their source of income will be threatened.

The Shiite scholars, on the other hand, receive NO funding
from the government.

This way, they are free to dedicate their lives to the
pursuit of justice for the community.

[/b]

[zina.khan]

Viru....what you call "garbage" is in actuality just the opposite....the reason why I have "dumped" so much information and "knowledge" is to mitigate, negate and/or water down your attempts to pollute and poison the hearts and minds of innocent people....if you believe that I am actually responding to you per se, then you must be naive...

You have clearly stated that the Imam and his family feeds himself from the tithe....this is simply unacceptable, insulting, rude, obnoxious and derogatory....now you are trying to retract using your gift of the gab....those who sold their faith and Iman also get paid....sometimes pittance, so they say....and so you knew exactly what you were saying....

You haven't been able to explain the Tawil of the ayats in question...nor explain why what is supposedly forbidden here, is allowed or offered as a paradise to you the "good" muslims?....the explanation that you did try to offer was again revolving around a "physical paradise" and you even said that the womenfolk will too have their "enjoyment"...lol !!!

In the world of spirit and soul since when have physical bodies begun to appear? at least tell us that first !

You claim falsely that I have not responded effectively on the subject of "drinkinging"...I have....asking questions to arrive at an acceptable conclusion is not necessarily inviting anyone to commit any act...but then this is how mullah think and behave...

Allah is very clear..."If they tread the straight path WE shall give them to drink of water in abundance.."(Sura 72:verse 16).....

The pure and holy drink is the water of Kausar !!!! Metaphorically the wine means just this !!! The water of Shifa !!!! ...and the "immortal youths" and "voluptious" ones....means the ones on whom Allah has bestowed HIS Favours namely the nabiyyun, siddiqin, shuhada and the salihin....

but then most of you have now betrayed and abandoned the wise ones....and so in your paradise you will have just Hell fire...and cactus trees....you actually made me laugh hysterically when you said elsewhere that the "Light" of God is the Light from the SUN....lol ! You just committed shirk....never realized you were so ignorant and destitute of knowledge and basic understanding of Islam and the quran....

The truth mixes the tangibles with the intangibles and makes everything a symbol (mamthoul) and also an example (mathal) and then it is "apparent".....Apparent means NOT in hiding !!!..the Imam is the self disclosure and so there must always be a relativity !

Now the majority on one side does not mean they are right ! It could also mean that all the fools are on one side ! blinded by passion, greed, oratory and power, most became Intoxicated...and fell by the wayside ! The quran has more than one meaning....the quran is rich in symbols,parable, metaphors and allegory !

[/b]

[zina.khan]

Viru....you are trying to teach me what the Imam has said? lol ! did you not see the expression referring to the tenth part ? First and foremost Sadaqa is unlawful to them...Sadaqa is meant for the poor and the orphans...you may be giving the poor tax or sadaqa @ 2.5% ...but you are denying the share of Allah and his prophet and prophet's relatives....they are two different things....and if you read the quranic ayah, you were too quick to reply without thinking ....but it says....

"...Know that whatever of a thing you acquire, a fifth of it is for
Allah, for the Messenger, for the near relative, and the orphans
and the needy and they way farer ..... (Quran 8:41).."

Thus Khums (literally one fifth of gain) should go to six people of which three are :

1. Allah
2. His Messenger
3. The near relative of the Messenger (Ahlul-Bayt)

As the Aboos of yesteryears had conflict with BENI Hashem...as they were the enemies of Muhamad (saw) and his ITRAT, they connived and denied the return of their "amanat" to the prophet and his family...show me where in the quran it says you give 2.5% Sadaqa?...please show me Sir !

The Pirs have used the expression Dasond or "Dasaana" meaning one tenth in Prakrat language and this was used for ushr/Khums....in the Bible it is mentioned as tithe....and frankly in the quran zakat, ushr and Khums have also been used....check !

Zakat means to grow ! and so it has been used in the sense of purification...from the sins...and so the complete package is one tenth plus 2.5% shariati sadaqa = 12.5%....it takes into consideration that there is no income from 'spoils of war"....even the Bible states one fifth....the 2.5% rate has been fixed by your Aboos and jurists....

The system you all thus follow is not based on the quran...it is based on what the Aboos have told you that you do...

Ismailis do not have a book of fiqh like you guys...

Read the quran and you will find that even Prophets Abraham, Moses and ishmael and Jesus were ordered to pay their dues...and so you all have gone against the commandments of Allah....this is polytheism !

[shiraz.virani]

Viru....by now I think most people know your style is to offer twisted version of the truth...please go back and read properly ....let me repeat and expand....

However there are some people who interpret the word ghanimtum as 'whatever of a thing that you acquire as spoils of war', thus confining the obligation of khums to the spoils of war only. The interpretation is based on ignorance of

* the Arabic langauage
* the history of khums
* the Islamic laws
* and the interpretation of the Quran

Please bear in mind that the word ghanimtum has been derived from al-
ghanimah.


=================================
The meaning of the word Ghanimtum
=================================
The famous Arabic dictionary of al-Munjid (Father Louis Maluf of Beirut)
states, al-ghanim and al-ghanimah means

* what is taken from the fighting enemies by force
* all earnings generally

Furthermore the saying "al-ghunm bil ghurm" means that profit stands
against expenses, i.e, the owner is the sole proprieter of the profit and
nobody shares it with him, therefore only he bears all the expenses and
risk.

For the readers satisfaction, they are also encouraged to look up
dictionaries like Lisan al-Arab and al-Qamus.

This implies that in the Arabic langauge ' al-ghanimah ' has two meanings,
one is the spoils of war, and the other is profit.

The above quoted proverb also proves profit is not an uncommon meaning. When a word in the Quran can interpreted in more than one way, it is incumbent upon the muslims to seek guidance from the Holy Prophet (PBUH&HF) and the Ahl al-Bayt.

====================
The History of Khums
====================
Khums is one of those things which were introduced by Abdul Muttalib (RA)
the grandfather of the Prophet (PBUH&HF), and it continued in Islam when it was revealed in Quran. Acting upon a command of God given to him in his dream, when Abdul Muttalib rediscovered the well of Zamzam, he found in it many valuable things that were buried in it very remote past by the Ismailites when they feared that their enemies would usurp them. When Abdul Muttalib found that buried treasure, he gave away one fifth ( literally khums ) in the way of God and kept the remaining four fifth to himself.

Then it became a custom in his family to and after the Hijrah of the
Prophet (PBUH&HF) the same system was incorporated in Islam. Thus the first khums was not given from the spoils of war, but from a buried treasure ( which is one of the seven items eligible for khums ).

================
The Islamic Laws
================
Not a single Islamic school confines the meaning of ghanimah to the spoils
of war. In addition to the spoils of war the following items are subjected
to khums

* minerals: eligible in the Hanafi and the Shia
* buried treasure: eligible for all the muslims.

As already mentioned earlier, the interpretation of the Quran must be based on the teachings of the Ahl al-Bayt. The word ghanimah in the verse under discussion has been clearly interpreted as "the earned profit" (al- fa'idatul muktasabah) by our Imams.


=====================
Some Sunni References
=====================
To conclude, we can say that the word ghanima was never treated as being confined to the spoils of war by any Islamic school; and as far as our Imams are concerned, it meant many things besides the spoils of war right from the day of Imam Ali ( peace be upon him ), as many authentic
traditions show.

What has been quoted above is substantiated from the practice of the Holy
Prophet (PBUH&HF) as well.

For example when the Prophet (PBUH&HF) sent Amr
bin Hazm to Yemen, he wrote instructions in which, among many other things, he says ' ... to gather khums of Allah from the gains [ of Yemenis ].

Please refer to

* Ibn Khaldun, Tarikh Volume 2 part II p54 ( Beirut 1971 )
* Ibn Kathir, al-Bidayah wan Nihayah Volume 5 p76-77 ( Beirut 1966 )
* Ibn Hisham, Sirah Volume 4 p179 ( Beirut 1975 )

And when the tribe of Bani Kilal of Yemen sent Khums to the Prophet, the
later acknowledges it by saying, ' Your messenger has returned and you have paid the khums of Allah from the gains ( al-ghanaim ). ' Please refer to

* Abu Ubayd, al-Amwal p13 ( Beirut 1981 )
* al-Hakim, al-Mustadrak Volume 1 p395 ( Hyderabad 1340 A.H )
* Jafar Murtada al-Amili, al-Sahih fi Sirat al-Nabi Volume 3 p309
( Qum 1983 )

It is very interesting to note that the Bani Kilal obeyed Prophet's order
and sent the khums of gains to him while no war had taken place between the muslims and the un-believers. This is a clear indication that khums was not restricted by the Prophet (PBUH&HF) to the Spoils of War!

The importance given by the Prophet (PBUH&HF) to the issue of Khums can also be seen in his advice to the delegation of Bani Abdul Qays. It seems that Bani Abdul Qays ( which was a branch of Rabiah ) was not a very strong tribe. More over in order to travel to Medina, they had to cross an area inhabited by the Muzar tribe, which was against the muslims. Consequently, the Bani Abdul Qays could not travel safely to Medina except during the months in which war fare was forbidden according to the Arab custom.

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 4.327 (pages 212-213)
Narrated Ibn Abbas:

The delegates of the tribe of Abdul Qais came and said: `O Allah's
Apostle ! We are from the tribe of Rabia and between us and you stand
stand the infidels of the tribe of Mudar, so we cannot come to you
except in the Haram Months.

So please order us some instructions that
we may apply it to ourselves and also invite our people left behind us
to observe as well. ' The Prophet (PBUH) said: `I order you to do four
(4) things and forbid you to do four (4): I order you to believe in
Allah, that is, to testify that None has the right to be worshipped
but Allah (the Prophet (PBUH) pointed with his hand) ; to offer
prayers perfectly, to pay Zakat, to fast the month of Ramadhan, and to
pay the Khums.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Considering the facts that they travelled in the haram months ( when the
war fare ) was forbidden, the circumstances of the Bani Abdul Qays who were weak and small in numbers ( evident from their travelling in the haram months ), it leaves no room for interpreting the application of khums in the above hadith on the spoils of war exclusively! Please refer for the above hadith to

* Sahih Bukhari Volume 4 pp 212-213 ( Beirut )
* Abu Ubayd, al-Amwal p13 ( Beirut 1981 )
***************************************************************************


More on Khums

The following discussion is taken from Dr. al-Tijani's book, "Ma'a al-
Sadeeqeen -- With The Truthful Ones,", pp 149-153.


To begin with, we must quote the Book of Allah (SWT):

"And know that out of all the booty that ye may acquire, a FIFTH share
is assigned to Allah, and to the Messenger, and to near relatives,
orphans, the needy, and the wayfarer,--if ye do believe in Allah and
in the revelation We sent down to our Servant.....[8:41]"

The above verse is a clear injunction by Allah (SWT), the Creator of the
Universe, to give out a FIFTH (Khums) of our wealth in the way of Allah
(SWT) to the needy, orphans, etc....

Let's continue...

The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: "I command you to do four things: To
believe in Allah (SWT); to establish prayer; to pay Zakat; to fast
Ramadan; and to pay the fifth of all the booty that you acquire for
the sake of Allah (SWT)"

Sunni reference: Shahih al-Bukhari, v4, p44.

Now, the problem with the interpretation of the text is that the word
"Ghaneema -- Booty" is interpreted by the Sunnis as that wealth collected
as part of a war.

That is not an accurate interpretation of the Arabic
word.

The Semitic languages, which Arabic belongs to, are based on the
verb form, not the noun form.

As such, the translation of the word
"Ghaneema" is not all that accurate when the word "booty" is used.

The Shia, in conformity with Allah's (SWT) and His (SWT) Messenger's
(PBUH&HF) orders, pay 20% (a fifth) of their wealth at the end of every
year.

In addition, the grammatical usage of the word "Ghaneema" in Arabic,
as the Shia translate it, means that certain things that a believer
acquires by way of a profit from a legitimate business deal or otherwise,
is considered a "Ghaneema," and becomes subject to the laws and regulations thereof.

Of course there are exclusions. Actually, the Khums is only applicable in
the following areas: First, ANYTHING extracted from the earth like gold,
silver, metal, oil, and other natural elements is subject to the Khums.


The minimum value of that which is extracted from the earth is 20 "dinars", and one "dinar" is equal to 3.45 grams gold in value. If that minimum is not met, then the Khums is not required. Second, ANYTHING by way of hidden treasures, if it meets the minimum value requirements, is also subject to the Khums. Third, ANYTHING extracted from the ocean like pearls, coral, etc..., if it meets the minimum value of 1 dinar, not 20, is also subject to the Khums. Fourth, any EXCESS wealth that has remained for one year untouched is also subject to the Khums. Exclusions to the Khums include, but are not limited to, gifts, prizes, inheritance, a woman's dowry, etc...

The details of the Khums are *VERY* involved, and it is almost always
necessary to seek the advice of a Mujtahid before the Khums is taken out.

The Sunnis have rejected that, EVEN though it is in the Book of Allah
(SWT).

Furthermore, it is narrated in Sahih al-Bukhari, v2, pp 136-137
that the Prophet (PBUH&HF) stated that any wealth that was buried under
the ground in the Days of Ignorance (Ayam al-Jahiliyah) is subject to al-
Khums.

Moreover, Ibn Abbas, THE most trusted narrator of hadith in the
eyes of the Sunnis, said that pearls extracted from the ocean are subject
to the Khums also.

It is apparent, that the Khums is NOT restricted to a booty from a war, as
the Sunnis claim; rather, it extends to all of the above issues.

If a truly Sunni Islamic nation was to be established, it would fall short
of fulfilling its financial obligations because it depends on the Zakat
only, which is only 2.5% of one's wealth.

Realistically speaking, can an
Islamic nation, as the Sunnis contend, survive on 2.5% a year from the
Muslim Ummah?

Can it truly build an infrastructure that would support the
masses?

Can it build hospitals, schools, highways, etc...? No, it CANNOT,
because 2.5% is NOT enough, not by ANY stretch of the imagination.

The Khums also serves another VERY IMPORTANT purpose in the CURRENT Shiite community. It helps the Mujtahids maintain an independence and separation from the political implications which will happen if a religious scholar becomes dependent on the government for his bread and butter.

That is EXTREMELY important. The Sunnis scholars in Muslim countries receive their salaries from the government, which means that they CANNOT utter a word of objection to the policies of the ruler because their source of income will be threatened.

The Shiite scholars, on the other hand, receive NO funding
from the government.

This way, they are free to dedicate their lives to the
pursuit of justice for the community.

Sister the term ghanimah itself means "BOOTY" ....at it usually refers to the booty captured during the battle/war !!!.......why dont you read quran yaar ???....Why dont you understand simple things mentioned in quran ??


Following are the verses of the Qur’an and the Traditions of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) which lay down the law regarding treatment of Ghanimah :

They ask thee (O Muhammad) of the spoils of war. Say: The spoils of war belong to Allah and the messenger, so keep your duty to Allah, and adjust the matter of your difference, and obey Allah and His messenger, if ye are (true) believers.

–—(Al-Anfal 8:1)

And know that whatever ye take as spoils of war, lo! a fifth thereof is for Allah, and for the messenger and for the kinsman (who hath need) and orphans and the needy and the wayfarer, if ye believe in Allah and that which We revealed unto Our salve on the Day of Discrimination, the day when the two armies met. And Allah is Able to do all things.

–––(Al-Anfal 8:41)


59:6-8 And that which Allah gave as spoil unto His messenger from them, ye urged not any horse or riding-camel for the sake thereof, but Allah giveth His messenger lordship over whom He will. Allah is Able to do all things. That which Allah giveth as spoil unto His messenger from the people of the townships, it is for Allah and His messenger and for the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer, that it become not a commodity between the rich among you. And whatsoever the messenger giveth you, take it. And whatsoever he forbiddeth, abstain (from it). And keep your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is stern in reprisal. And (it is) for the poor fugitives who have been driven out from their homes and their belongings, who seek bounty from Allah and help Allah and His messenger. They are the loyal.

So according to the Qur’an "Fai" means such of the properties of the unbelievers as are ‘returned’ to the Muslims without war. It is not to be distributed like booty among the soldiers. But the whole of it is for Allah and His apostle. Such property is to be spent on the heads of expenditure mentioned in the Quran, namely :

1. Allah and his Messenger.

2. Near of kin.

3. The orphans.

4. The needy.

5. The wayfarer or travelers.

Spoils of war, as stated above, are of two types : Ghanimah and Fai. The Ghanimah is the booty which is obtained from the enemy by actual war against him, whereas the Fai is the booty which is acquired from the enemy who peacefully surrenders and concludes a treaty or flees away due to the fear of Islamic army. Khaibar was conquered by the Prophet and so the spoils found there were treated as Ghanimah. The best example is that of Fedak who got frightened at the fate of Khaibar and surrendered, so the spoils found there were treated as Fai.

Both Ghanimah and Fai may include movable property such as cattle, household and personal effects, gold and silver, money, etc. and immovable property like lands, buildings and houses, and also slaves.

After the death of the Prophet[saw], when Iraq, Iran and Egypt were conquered by Muslim armies, there arose a controversy among the people concerning the lands of these countries. Some of the leading companions of the Prophet at request of Caliph Umar held meetings to discuss and deliberate upon the issue. Imam Abu Yusuf in his book Kitab-ul-Kharaj gives a lengthy and interesting account of these debates. Abdul Rahman, Zubair and Bilal backed by the army generals were of the view that the conquered lands should be divided among the soldiers just like other categories of booty from which one-fifth is taken out for the Muslim community and four-fifth is distributed among the participating soldiers. On the other hand Umar backed by Imam Ali-ibn-Abi Talib[as] and Muadh-b-Jabal was of the opinion that these lands should be retained in state control and should not be distributed among the soldiers. Letter written by Umar to Saad bin Abi Waqqas, the commander of Islamic forces in Iraq and Persia, thows light on the views of the Caliph : “You urge in your letter that whatever property God has given you in booty should be distributed. On receipt of my letter you should distribute all the chattels including animals among the army after deducting one-fifth provided the booty has been obtained after the actual warfare, and allow the lands and the camels to remain in the hands of the original owners so that they may be used in support of the allowances of the Muslims. If you distribute (the latter) among the present generation, there would be left nothing for the posterity”.

Caliph Umar addressed the companions, in order to persuade them to accept his view, as follows :

You heard the people who say I am depriving them of their right. I think that after the land of Kisra (Chosroe) no lands will be left for conquest. God has granted us their wealth and lands. I have distributed wealth among Muslims, but I wish that lands be left with their tillers and I should impose Kharaj and Jizyah which they would be paying us to meet the expenses of the army, children of Muslims and generations to come. You have seen the borders, we need the army to protect them; you have seen the big cities and to protect them a regularly paid army is necessary, and if I distribute the lands, how will they be paid?”

So on the basis of these arguments Umar tried to press his point but was not successful due to strong opposition of Bilal and others who were not ready to concede anything for future generations. At last he did Ijtihad for some days and then convinced the companions of the Holy Prophet relying on the verses 7 to 10 of Surah Al Hashr of the Holy Quran. In these verses, Allah declares that Fai belongs to the poor among the Muhajreen and the Ansar––and to “those who come after them”. Umar laid emphasis on the clause “to those who come after them” and carried his point through. In this way, with the consensus of Majlis-e-Shura, it was declared that the conquered lands in these countries would be considered Fai property and would be kept under state control for the benefit of all Muslim Ummah including future generations.

Soon after taking over the conquered lands in the state control, Caliph Umar applied his best administrative abilities to reorganize the administrative system of these areas. He entrusted the work of survey of land in Iraq to Usman-b-Hanif who was an expert in this field. Usman-b-Hanif carried out the survey very efficiently. Imam Abu Yusuf writes that the area of swad of Iraq amounted to 3,60,00,000 Jaribs (one Jarib equal to almost 3000 square yards of these days). Kharaj was imposed on these lands. Total Kharaj collected from these lands of Iraq rose before the death of the great caliph to impressive figure of 12,80,00,000 Dirhams. Similarly lands of Egypt and Syria placed under state control brought Kharaj of 1,20,00,000 and 1,40,00,000 Dinars respectively to Muslim treasury.

With this considerable amount of funds in Bait-ul-Mal, the great caliph introduced a widespread network of social security unparalleled in the hitherto history of the mankind.

Mujamme-b-Jariyah reported : The booty of Khaiber was divided by the Messenger of Allah…… He gave two shares to each horseman and one share to each footman.(Abu Daud)

So, in the reign of the Holy Prophet[saw], the procedure followed for the division of the spoils was : After the war had come to an end, somebody used to proclaim on behalf of the Prophet (may Allah’s peace be upon him) and all the belongings of the enemy were gathered at one place. Then one – fifth was taken by the Prophet (PBUH) as share of Allah and His Messenger and remaining four-fifth was divided among the soldiers who participated in the war. Two shares were given to the horseman and one share to the footman. It was a tradition that the soldier killing a particular enemy was given his (enemy’s) belonging in addition to his fixed share, as a reward. If the slaves, minors, non-Muslims or women had helped the Muslim army, they were not assigned any regular share. Instead, they were given some gift for their services.

[shiraz.virani]

I hope this might help !!!!

http://widenknowledges.blogspot.com/201 ... ities.html

[zina.khan]

Viru....your insinuations are rife with innuendo...but they are simply worthless....you cannot teach me how to play the game...

Zayd bin Arqam who has related the authenticated Thaqalayn tradition, has stated that the wives of the Holy Prophet (s) are not regarded as the members of his Household).


He was asked: "Aren't the wives of the Holy Prophet (s) considered as the members of the Household?" He replied: "The wives of the Prophet reside in the Prophet's house but the Prophet's "ahl al-bayt" are those to whom the grant of "sadaqah" is religiously unlawful."


Another tradition has it that Zayd was asked to name the members of the Household of the Holy Prophet (s). He was asked whether the Prophet's wives were among his "ahl al-bayt". He replied: "No, a wife lives with a husband for a while and then might be divorced and go back to her parents."

Now the Imam injects some 500 million dollars a year into projects around the world which are geared to help the poor and the disenfranchised....80% of those who receive the benefit are not Ismailis.....please be kind enough to show me another Imam who spends so much money for others who are not part of his clock, so to speak...only the Prophet's family would echo such noble sentiments....

Simply put, most of the funds are re distributed in a professional, methodical and innovative manner....the JIHAD of the Imam is known as "HER"....Health, Education and Rural development....

And so the sadaqa which the Ismailis give plus the Khums is put to excellent use....now tell me what happens to what you give to the mullahs?

Now Mr wise ! what is the "Bait ul Maal for a Muslim widow and orphans in a Christian country? ponder ! and what real and meaningful contingencies do muslims have in place which are reliant and secure, so that should it be a man's own destiny to be taken away from the scene pre maturely....how would this man assure that his wife is NOT exploited by the lecherous ones ? and that his orphaned children are NOT enlisted by the thugs and criminals to blow themselves up in the marketplace? and how they will be protected from such calamities....

I need some clear thoughts and views Viru...and for a change come clean and stop your obfuscation and buffoonery.

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[zina.khan]

Sorry ! The Sh'ia scholars and Mutjahids do not agree with your interpretation and enough evidence has been given ....your interpretation is based on bias and hatred for the Prophet and his ITRAT as the Aboos who usurped the caliphate have twisted everything around....they have destroyed many ahadith and sayings of prophet in favour of the Ahl al Bayt....and there is no vaccine for stupidity ....ignorance is terrorism...

Majority of the Sh'ias are giving 20% ! they have a state also....

YOUR interpretation is based on ignorance of

* the Arabic langauage
* the history of khums
* the Islamic laws
* and the interpretation of the Quran

Please bear in mind that the word ghanimtum has been derived from al-
ghanimah.


=================================
The meaning of the word Ghanimtum
=================================
The famous Arabic dictionary of al-Munjid (Father Louis Maluf of Beirut)
states, al-ghanim and al-ghanimah means

* what is taken from the fighting enemies by force
* all earnings generally

Additionally Allah says Obey the Olil Amr...the Imams and the Pirs know this all more than you and me....10 + 2.5% is obligatory and includes everything....the rest is optional and so many Ismailis give over and above voluntarily and freely.....

"woe to the infidels who do not give.." !

[zina.khan]

Also I observe that you have quoted information derived from some hadith of your aboos....I told you that the quran is silent over the details....it was the rulers (who were the enemies) and the Jurists who fixed all this ....if as you say the quran speaks of sadaqa and if the quran and the Bible both state one fifth and if it is only meant to be "booty" then for God's sake, why are you even paying 2.5% ? this is a contradiction here that I see....plus earlier on you said you do not believe or follow ahadith...but here you actually are trying to depend on it...see how hypocritical you are? one -fifth then is one fifth and i.e. 20% NOt 2.5% and so how did you arrive at just 2.5%? This is be imani !!!

THE FINAL COLLECTION OF THE QUR'ANIC TEXT

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THE "QUR'AN" BY ZAID IBN THABIT AND HIS COMMITTEE

In the preceding section we followed the development of the Qur'an through to the completion of the first official copy when Abu Bakr was still Khalifa.

There were, however, other men who made their own collections of Suras, either as they heard them from Muhammad, or by copying them from those who had.

One of the most well known is that of Abdullah Ibn Mas`ud who was the personal servant of Muhammad and was present at both Badr and Uhud.

He claimed to have learned some seventy Suras directly from the mouth of Muhammad, and tradition says that he was one of the first to teach Qur'an reading.

It is also well-known that his collection differed in its order of the Suras, and that it did not include Suras 1, 113, and 114.

Another of Muhammad's companions who made his own collection of Suras was Ubai b. Ka`b. One of the Ansar, he served as Muhammad's secretary after Muhammad came to Medina.

Ubai's codex was known to contain two Suras not found in the Othmanic text---Surat al-Khal` and Surat al-afd, as well as a verse on men's greed following Sura 10:24.

Before the appearance of Othman's text, Ubai's text was much used in Syria; and Ubai may have even helped Zaid prepare the official text for Othman.

In addition to these two men, Islamic history and Hadiths mention primary collections made by Ali Ibn Abi Talib, the Prophet's son-in-law, whose codex was arranged in chronological order starting with Sura 96; by Ibn Abbas, whose codex is mentioned by al-Suyuti (Itqan, 154) as including the two extra Suras of Ubai; and by Abu Musa, whose codex was used by the people of Basra.

It also contained the two extra Suras of Ubai (Itqan 154) as well as the verse on the greed of men (Muslim, Sahih, 1, 285, 286).

As we shall see in the following Hadith, differences between collections were so great that Muslim soldiers from Iraq who followed Ibn Mas`ud's collection and the soldiers of Syria who followed Ubai's collection, accused each other of lying.

The problem became so severe that while Othman was engaged in the conquest of Armenia and Azerbaijan (in the year 25 or 30 AH), he was warned of what might happen by Hudhaifah ibn al Yaman as is explained in the following Hadith,


Hudhaifah therefore said to Othman: "Oh Commander of the Faithful, be careful of the people."

He answered, "What is the problem?"

Hudhaifah said, "I took part in the expedition against Armenia where there were Iraqis as well as Syrians. But the Syrians follow the reading of the Qur'an according to Ubai ibn Ka`b, and they say some things which the Iraqis have not heard, so the latter accuse them of unbelief. In the same way the Iraqis, who follow the reading of Ibn Mas`ud, read some things which the Syrians have not heard. and the Syrians accuse them of unbelief. Restrain this people before they differ in the book, as do the Jews and the Christians."

Accordingly Othman sent to Hafsa, saying, "Send us the sheets that we may copy them into the volumes. Then we shall return them to you." Hafsa therefore sent them to Othman.

Then he commanded Zaid ibn Thabit and Abdullah ibn al Zubair and Said ibn al As and Abdullah ibn Harith ibn Hisham, and they copied them into the volumes.

And Othman said to the company of the three Quraishites, "When you differ, you and Zaid ibn Thabit, in any portion of the Qur'an write it in the dialect of the Quraish, for verily it came down in their dialect."

And they did so until, when they had copied the sheets into the volumes, Othman restored the sheets to Hafsa.

And he sent to every region a volume from what they had copied, and commanded regarding everything of the Qur'an besides it, in every sheet and volume, that it should be burned.

Further evidence demonstrating the great effort made by Zaid and his committee in compiling their collection is found in the following Hadith,

Ibn Shahab said that Kharijah ibn Zaid ibn Thabit told me that he heard Zaid ibn Thabit say, "when we copied the volume, there was missing from Sura al Ahzab a verse (33:23) which I used to hear the Apostle of God recite. Therefore we sought for it. And we found it with Khuzaimah ibn Thabit the Ansari from among the believers...Therefore we inserted it in its Sura in the volume."

Now that we have seen how Zaid Ibn Thabit went about his task of collecting and assembling the Suras of the TEXTS, you have no qualms about accepting it but have problems with the authentic ahadith...I have shown you that it was the SUNNAH to give Khums....you are still arguing which means you merely claim that you follow sunnah of Muhamad (saw)....but in reality you follow a mumbo jumbo !

And then you want to come here and teach the people of talim ! those who have a Murshid e Kamil with them....this is sheer arrogance and haughtiness....just try and clean the filth in your own back yard first....charity begins at home !
[/b]

[shiraz.virani]

Ok sister....lets just agree to disagree and move on !!

[Admin]

I do not see much ethics in the way discussions are going here. When any Forum turns to dispute between 2 people were all other users are left out, we request bot to have their discussion by email. if this can not be done, this subject will be closed within a couple of days.

Also all messages starting by will be automatically deleted from now on.

[star_munir]

Importance of Photos:

There is one hadith which says looking at the face of Ali is an act of worship. When someone looks at the photo of MHI, he/she is looking at the face of Ali.
Muslims (both Sunnis and Shias) say Karm Allah Wajah after name of Hazrat Ali, which signifies the importance of His face. I have seen some Non Ismaili Muslims, have kept Photos of MHI in their stores as they believe it will bring good fortune to them.
There are some Shia Muslims, who keep photos of Hazrat Ali with them. Though they do not have an exact photo, they look at the imaginary photo of their Imam and regard it as very significant. Syed Mohammad Askari Jafery in the preface of Nahjul Balagh mentions about one of his friend Mohamad Ali who had kept painting of Hazrat Ali. Author asked him whether Hazrat Ali actually looked like that. His friend replied “How can I know, please do not philosophize. For small minds it is very difficult to love abstract qualities. They want them in human form, some thing resembling them at least in appearance. I believe one of the reasons why God sent His apostles in human form was this weakness of human mind.”