DOES "LAW OF KARMA" APPLY IN ISLAM?

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:15 am

Recently I read a book name "law of Karma" it is good books but after reading this books many question arised in my mind, according the books you receive good rewards for your good deeds and bad rewards or punishment for your bad deeds ! it may be right but....let me ask you one question here why some babies born with blind eyes, some babies born with no hands and or legs? some babies born deaf, are they facing punishment of your their bad deeds? if yes then,when and where these new born babies did bad deeds? I mean in this life? or their past lives? if is in this life then how can a new born baby who is blind, deaf has no hands or legs can do good or bad deeds? so obviously they must have did bad deeds in their past lives!! but Islam doesn't believe in past lives.
Question come up in my mind are below:-

-Did this baby did bad deeds in his past live? so God is giving him this punishment?
-Does past life exist?
-Does Islam believe in reincarnation?
-Does "LAW OF KARMA APPLY IN ISLAM?

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:20 am

There have been numerous discussions on the questions you have raised in the past. Just search for the terms 'rebirth' and 'reincarnation'. Below are some examples in this Forum.

Reincarnation in Islam

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... 48&start=0

Farmans of MHI(1957to 2004)-----REINCARNATION & REBIRTH

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... 87&start=0

where a bad person go after death in ismailism

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... 70&start=0

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:30 am

Ohh I think I read one of the firmans of MHI which he gave to western jamats on an issue like this ....Ima try to search that firman insha allah and post it here.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:37 am

KBhai,

Thanks referring above links, honestly I tried to search it before I put it in new topic section but I searched wrong as ' LAW OF KARMA' instead of Reincarnation in Islam.

By the way I received answer of 'REINCARNATION IN ISLAM" thanks for that but following questions are not answered yet.

-DOES 'LAW OF KARMA' APPLY IN ISLAM? YES OR NO?
- When and where these new born babies (who born as handicapped) did bad or good deeds? how that possible to do it? WHEN THEY DO NOT HAVE HANDS, LEGS, THEY CAN NOT TALK OR HEAR? THEY CAN NOT EVEN WALK!

Shiraz,
Please post that farman of Mowlana Hazar Imam as soon as possible.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:11 am

-DOES 'LAW OF KARMA' APPLY IN ISLAM? YES OR NO?
- When and where these new born babies (who born as handicapped) did bad or good deeds? how that possible to do it? WHEN THEY DO NOT HAVE HANDS, LEGS, THEY CAN NOT TALK OR HEAR? THEY CAN NOT EVEN WALK!

You have raised a veryyyy veryyyyy important question here agakhani bhai...If I was in austin I would have kissed your hand for this

Does law of karma apply in ISLAM ?

This idea that life is a "circle", and that what goes around does eventually come around to the person is all supported in the Holy Quran....Like say if we read surah Al-Room chapter 30 verse 40-41 allah[swt] says :

30:40 Allah is He Who created you and then sustained you, then causeth you to die, then giveth life to you again. Is there any of your (so-called) partners (of Allah) that doeth aught of that? Praised and exalted be He above what they associate (with Him)!

30:41 Corruption doth appear on land and sea because of (the evil) which men's hands have done, that He may make them taste a part of that which they have done, in order that they may return.

If there is no karma in islam brother , how is allah[swt] going to judge us ??

In one of our ginans but the pir says :

KARAM KAROGE TOH SHARAM RAHEGI

If Im not mistaken its aankh ladi/lagi joyi joyi ??

So yeh karma is there in islam brother

When and where these new born babies (who born as handicapped) did bad or good deeds? how that possible to do it? WHEN THEY DO NOT HAVE HANDS, LEGS, THEY CAN NOT TALK OR HEAR? THEY CAN NOT EVEN WALK!

Very good question brother !!

See the problem is we always blame it on allah[swt] if the child is born with defects !!.....Do you know here in USA, most of the kids that are born with defects are usually a victim of CRACK ? ...Their mother is either a crack addict or a chain smoker or a drunkard and these are the main problems that a child has to bear while in the womb of his/her mother

So usually over 80-85% kids I would say who are born under these circumstances face these kinds of problems

Now the other problem is these wars that this country wages on...for ex: Iraq/Afghanistan/Pakistan/Libya/Japan and so on .... Do you know those who survived the atomic blast in japan died few years later because of excessive radiation poisoning ? And those who survived this radiation poison that was caused by atomic bombs lost their hair, Finger nails....their skin started to peel....woman would give birth to a child who is sooooo deformed that they let go of them.....for 25-30 years the people of Japan had to face this terrible problem caused by radiation

So lemme get your attention to Iraq....what the US attacked Iraq ,it did not attack it just for the sake of oil !....If you open up the archieves or ever visit your state library spend some time in reading about project black pearl and other black operation were the objective for USA is to kill majority of the population , slowly but surely !!!

The missiles which the USA govt fired at these innocent iraqis did kill them but those who survived these missilies have a special substance in them [Im really sorry I dont remember the name but insha allah I shall find it out and let you know] , it looks like a piece of glass but if you get any close to that substance you're infected with radiation poisoning that causes cancer, deformity of new born child and so on...

So out of 100% ....These innocent killings and slaying by our govt covers another 2-10% of defects !!!

Now the rest 5-10% that are born with defects , well brother allah[swt] said in the quran that he shall test you in all possible ways....we should thank allah[swt] for he gave us body parts that are working, but for those who are not as blessed as we are ...well its a test for their parents...its a test to see how much they would love their child which is again allah's[swt] creation.....But now if this mentally unstable or handicapped child is indulging himself in booze, alcoholism,adultry, idol worshipping etc etc....hez inviting trouble for himself/herself....and thier punishment is the very same punishment that have been described in holy quran ....These innocent beings indulge in these hadits only if their parents are doing so....if not then do you think this innocent life will get involved in all this ??

Even those who are born with defects are JUDGED !!!....Again the same karma is brought forth and allah[swt] who is all wise judges them with what they did....or who convinced these innocent lives to indulge in these horrible activities...Simple !!!

I hope this helps brother

MR-FORGET · Post by **MR-FORGET** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:59 am

-DOES 'LAW OF KARMA' APPLY IN ISLAM? YES OR NO?

Of course it apply in Islam and all other religions, whether you are believe in God or you are atheistic.
Some rewards/punishment you receive right away, some rewards/punishment come latter on but eventually you have to face the rewards or punishment soon or latter.

'JAISA KARAM KARENGA VAISA FAL DEGA BHAGWAN
YE HAI GITA KA GYAN, YE HAI GIRA KA GYAN.
-BHAGWAT GITA.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:42 am

If there is no karma in islam brother , how is allah[swt] going to judge us ??

Shiraz,

What a great explanation above in a only one sentence !!

Do you know here in USA, most of the kids that are born with defects are usually a victim of CRACK ? ...Their mother is either a crack addict or a chain smoker or a drunkard and these are the main problems that a child has to bear while in the womb of his/her mother

Allah, is most merciful, Rahman and Rahim (The Word "Rahman ' is quoted more than 800 times in Quran-E-sharif) why give punishment to the new born innocent babies for their mother's bad deeds? -
- Should not Allah needs to give punishment to crack addicted mother????
- Is not injustice to new born babies?
- Why not Allah give punishment to right person? who committed bad deeds!! ( Crack addicted mothers instead of babies) ( Astagafirullah)
Your explanation will highly appreciate, it will be more helpful to me if you quote Quranic ayats, Hadith or ginanic references related to this subject.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:57 am

Allah, is most merciful, Rahman and Rahim (The Word "Rahman ' is quoted more than 800 times in Quran-E-sharif) why give punishment to the new born innocent babies for their mother's bad deeds? -
- Should not Allah needs to give punishment to crack addicted mother????
- Is not injustice to new born babies?
- Why not Allah give punishment to right person? who committed bad deeds!! ( Crack addicted mothers instead of babies) ( Astagafirullah)
Your explanation will highly appreciate, it will be more helpful to me if you quote Quranic ayats, Hadith or ginanic references related to this subject.

No brother its not allah[swt] who is punishing those innocent babies.....Infact its his rehmat that a couple is blessed with a new born....If you wanna blame you should blame his/her mother who was a crack addict in 1st place

What is it that we humans have and angels dont ?? ....FREE WILL !!

Now if the mother wants she can get herself out of this crack addition/ alcoholism/smoking and other kinds of drugs...but they still choose to do so !!.....Its this freewill that allah[swt] have given us[humans].....Had their been no freewill....we all would have been jannati bhai.

and if their is no freewill...there would be no evil/satan and so on !!

Its not injustice....do you know that some mothers actually quit or undergo therapy in order to get rid of this disease i.e social habits ?? .....Why do you think they do it ?? .....They do it for the love for their new born that is in their womb.

Some people get on track but most of them still live in jaahiliyat and this is what allah[swt] refers to as test !....Allah[swt] will test us in every way....So agakhani its not allah[swt] who should be responsible for the deaths.....Its those who misuse this FREEWILL who are to be held accountable....and you know what , they are and will be accountable during the judgement day

See I even told sister zina.khan that alcoholism is a disease, it is the only disease that is advertised, has various outlets, breaks families, contributes in crime and what not !!!....Its satans way of inviting you to trouble brother.....Same thing with crack and smoking that we see in movies brother....some people get tempted when they see shahrukh khan or robert downey jr smoking or doing drugs....Does this mean that we should blame allah[swt] for what we have created ?

Hope I answered your question brother

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:23 am

Shiraz,
Well explained again thanks brother,

Now let me ask this question related to the same topic, which punishment USA mother getting? for their bad deeds like alcoholism, drug addiction and smoking? it seems that they are not receiving any bad rewards, I witnessed many girls here where I live that due to their alcoholism, and drug addiction problem Govt took away their babies from them! because due to their bad habit they can not take care about their babies.

I read one story that one drug addicted mother put her infant in washer dryer!!! why? because baby was crying too much and it was time to take her drug. What a Shame!!

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:41 am

30:40 Allah is He Who created you and then sustained you, then causeth you to die, then giveth life to you again. Is there any of your (so-called) partners (of Allah) that doeth aught of that? Praised and exalted be He above what they associate (with Him)!

Reincarnation in Islam? yes! there is reincarnation in Islam too, because IT IS QUOTED 27 TIMES IN Quran-E-Sharif in different ayats, but most Ulemas, Molwis, Muslim scholars interpret it wrongly! they say that this reincarnation is when Allahtala awakes everyone on a day of judgment. (KAYAMAT KE DIN jab sab murdo ko Allahtala jinda karega woh hai)

کیامت کے دیں جب اللہتعالیٰ سب مردوکو جندا کرینگا وہ ہے

After reading all posts, I personally believe that there is a past life in human lives, believe it or not but this is true.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:47 am

which punishment USA mother getting? for their bad deeds like alcoholism, drug addiction and smoking? it seems that they are not receiving any bad rewards, I witnessed many girls here where I live that due to their alcoholism, and drug addiction problem Govt took away their babies from them! because due to their bad habit they can not take care about their babies.

I read one story that one drug addicted mother put her infant in washer dryer!!! why? because baby was crying too much and it was time to take her drug. What a Shame!!

What punishment could one get when he distance himself from allah[swt] brother ?? .......He loses his center[AKL], starts doing things that are haram, and slowly becomes partner of satan....What more could satan want brother ??

When you go away from allah[swt]....you start cursing allah[swt] for the troubles that you have created.....you curse holy quran for its teachings...you curse imams[as] for anything and everything....slowly you start loosing everything that was dear to you !!!.......What could be the biggest punishment for a person if allah[swt] takes away from him/her...his/her dearest family members !!

Some ismaili brothers and sisters raise hands on their parents .....some beat their kids....some kill themselves....some kill their own kin !!!.....What could be more heart shattering for a man who was beating his father due to some other problem of which his father was not aware or was not even part of it.....dies one day and suddenly his son realises how much he loved his dad....how much his dad used to love him....when the very same child used to ask his father the very same question 20 times and yet his father never used to get angry and used to answer questions 20 times or more in a loving way.....but now that the child has grown into an adult when a father asks one simple question to his son....his son gets frustrated and beats his father

.......now that hez gone , can his father come back to life ?? can he ask for his forgiveness ??

This my dear brother is a test of god...who sometimes takes away some important things in your life .....its his way of saying "GET BACK ON TRACK or MORE IS TO COME !!!"........If a child feel unbearable pain after the loss of his father.....imagine how hard it would be for allah[swt] to see the father getting beaten up by his son for no reason ??

Just like govt took the babies of crack addict moms in the same way...allah[swt] raises those people who suffer injustice but still remember allah[swt] and thank allah[as] for bestowing them a child....who is merciless and ask for their forgiveness.......who is high is standards brother....those who beat their parents or those who get beaten up but yet ask allah[swt] to forgive them ??

Hope I answered your question !

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:21 am

“And be ye not like those who forgot Allah, and He made them forget their own souls! Such are the rebellious transgressors!” [Al-Qur’an 59:19]

zina.khan · Post by **zina.khan** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:24 pm

And when it is said to them: Follow what ALLAH has sent down, they say: "Not that! But we will follow what we found our fathers upon". What? Even though their fathers were void of wisdom and guidance? The parable of those who disbelieve is as the parable of one who calls; but they hear nothing, except a call and a cry. Deaf, dumb and blind, so they understand not". (The Holy Qur'an 2 Al- Baqarah 170-171).

Under natural law a man receives punishment after death for the sins committed during one's lifetime...this may not necessarily be a retributory consequence..it may just be for one's own spiritual upliftment as Nature does have a definitive purpose....for instance a surgeon removes your ulcers and cause you pain but the motives are obviously kind...a lunatic is confined but the desire is recovery...and so Nature's retributory consequence is for deliverance..the tortures and also the ecstasies of the next world will always seem real...

Nafs of a man is responsible for all its actions and thoughts....just think what will happen to those who have gone against Allah and HIS noble Prophet and his beloved family....they will be roasted in the hell fire !!! Their state will be terrible...and prolonged ! Allah will demand all accounts...any debts remaining unsettled within the meaning of divine law, the soul will have to settle...No escape for the Hypocrites !!!!!

002.007
YUSUFALI: Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they (incur).

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:21 am

Can any one tell who is YUSUFALI,PICKTHAL AND SHAKIR? I am seeing their quotes more often now a days!!??

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 4:18 am

Can any one tell who is YUSUFALI,PICKTHAL AND SHAKIR? I am seeing their quotes more often now a days!!??

These are those who translated the holy quran !

zina.khan · Post by **zina.khan** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:03 am

What Viru master means "arabic TEXTS and compilations" !!!! which many somehow seem to call it The Quran !

Now the dilemma of the ‘authorities’ --- just one example:

Many of Your ‘great scholars’ have been translating INNAHU LAQAULU
RASOOLIN KAREEM in 69:40 and 81:19 as utterances of the Noble Messenger !

Wrong translations make the Texts of the Qur’an appear disjointed, without flow and thus difficult to understand.

The actual Qur’an in its original form and language has to flow smoothly from A to Z. ..You will not find a hint of human touch in its arrangement... Allah says HIS BOOK is PERSPICOUS ! The Texts are NOT !

So is the "quran " the word of an angel and NOT the Word of God ?

That is what the scribes/narrators/Translators are saying? (I can show you many ayats to prove this point)...

So is it the word of Messenger Muhammad (S) and NOT of Allah ?

That is what the enemies of the Prophet used to claim...

These ‘authorities’ conveniently contradict countless verses that clearly state, “The Qur’an is the Word of God”, and thus, knowingly or unknowingly, they attempt to demolish the very foundation, the Divine Revelation, of the Glorious Book.

The chronological order isn't correct !

The longer suras are all in front and the shorter ones at the end ! If Allah had perfected Islam as early as Sura 5 then how come HE sent additional 109 Suras? Why was 5:67 revealed after 5:3 " Kindly explain !

Now read this properly....and see what Allah says...

"SAY: THOUGH MANKIND AND THE JINN SHOULD ASSEMBLE TO PRODUCE THE LIKE OF THIS QURAN, THEY COULD NOT PRODUCE THE LIKE THEREOF, EVEN IF THEY WERE TO HELP ONE ANOTHER..." (SURA 17:88)

Thus I am apt to conclude that Allah (swt) does not even consider such compilations as even being "The Like Thereof"...

The above examples show you the ensuing chaos and it can give you an idea how misguided and misguiding, unfortunately, the Qur’an translators and translations have been...even the arabic TEXT has similar flaws...

The Qur'án had been delivered from Gabriel as an oral text, and so it was the orally-transmitted, recited text that was considered the true Qur'án.

The community saw no immediate need to preserve it in writing....show me if the prophet had embarked on any formal compilation exercise? No !

Following the Prophet's death, the community became engaged in wars in which many of the reciters were killed, ...Caliphs (Umar/Aboo Bakr) had a written text compiled ... then Caliph Uthamn destroyed what the previous Two Caliphs had compiled and did his own ....after he was killed and the yazidis took over by force after destroying the Khulafa e Rashdeen, the TEXTS were revised and re revised !!!

Even during the reign of 'Uthmán, it became evident to the community that there were an uncomfortable number of variations in the memorized texts, and so 'Uthmán began the process of compiling another version.

A canonical text was produced under his direction, and he ordered that all PREVIOUS CODICES and texts be burnt.

This codification did not completely preclude any future variations, however, for his was a consonantal text only.

Its purpose was merely to preserve the skeleton of the text , not to record the living Qur'án as such.

Partly for this reason, and largely because the science of Arabic orthography was still primitive, variations remained possible.

The skeletal 'Uthmánic text either contained limited vowel markings or none at all, and the shapes of several consonants were similar, both of which allowed for a great variety of differences in meaning.

These differences or a few changes could have great ramifications.

For example, depending on tone, the word for "exalted, "ALI" could be taken either to be a simple adjective, or to refer to a divine endorsement of the caliphate of 'Alí!

From all of these variations, a limited number were selected and canonized in the tenth century.

The final stage in the process of codifying the Qur'án came in the twentieth century when "an Egyptian Royal Committee of experts" issued one definitive, fully vocalized reading of the text in 1924.

Although the Egyptian edition is now the predominant one, the other variant readings are still acknowledged to be equally canonical

There is no doubt that there was a variety of readings of the text for, if nothing else, it was this very fact which motivated 'Uthmán to canonize a single text in the first place.

The crucial factor in this issue, namely what the variant texts were and how much they varied, will most likely never be discovered.

This ambiguity has allowed for what has proven to be the most heated debate ..

The Imams are the only possessors of the original Qur'án but, more, they are the only ones capable of elucidating its inner, and hence its real, meanings.

Further, since one who does not benefit from an Imam's elucidation can in no way understand the text, he or she can not be said to have understood it at all.

The Qur'án is, for him, "silent."

The Imam, on the other hand, as the bearer of the original text and its sole authorized interpreter, is said to be the "speaking" Qur'án....and so must always be Hazirul maujood !

As proof of this, many offer the following verse, Qur'án 3:7:

"...No one knows its [the Qur'án's] true meanings except God, and those who are firmly grounded in knowledge."

There has been a blossoming in recent years of English translations.

Muslims view the Qur'an as God's direct words revealed in Arabic to the Prophet Muhammad (d. 632)....and yet many narrators say it is the word of the noble Messenger !

Because the Qur'an stresses its Arabic nature, Muslim scholars believe that any translation cannot be more than an approximate interpretation, intended only as a tool for the study and understanding of the original Arabic text.

Since fewer than 20 percent of Muslims speak Arabic, this means that most Muslims study the text only in translation. So how accurate are the Qur'an's renderings into English?

The record is mixed.

Some are simply poor translations.

Others adopt sectarian biases, and those that are funded by Saudi Arabia often insert political annotation.

Since translators seek to convey not only text but also meaning, many rely on the interpretation (tafsir) of medieval scholars in order to conform to an "orthodox" reading

The Quran evidence shows that the Quran was downloaded onto the Prophet's heart onetime in the Holy month of Ramadhan, on the night of lail tul Qadr !..so it is preserved and confined in the "Manifest" Imam...

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shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:13 am

What Viru master means "arabic TEXTS and compilations" !!!! which many somehow seem to call it The Quran !

Now the dilemma of the ‘authorities’ --- just one example:

Many of Your ‘great scholars’ have been translating INNAHU LAQAULU
RASOOLIN KAREEM in 69:40 and 81:19 as utterances of the Noble Messenger !

Wrong translations make the Texts of the Qur’an appear disjointed, without flow and thus difficult to understand.

The actual Qur’an in its original form and language has to flow smoothly from A to Z. ..You will not find a hint of human touch in its arrangement... Allah says HIS BOOK is PERSPICOUS ! The Texts are NOT !

So is the "quran " the word of an angel and NOT the Word of God ?

That is what the scribes/narrators/Translators are saying? (I can show you many ayats to prove this point)...

So is it the word of Messenger Muhammad (S) and NOT of Allah ?

Sister zina.khan has raised a very important question that is quran word of an angel and not the word of allah[swt] ?

Well sister did it again !!!.....Sister quoted just one aayat and came to the conclusion that since 69:40 and 81:19 is talking about H.Jibrail[as]....this book quran cannot be from god ...

What sister zina.khan dint show us is that in the same holy quran.....in the very same surah allah[swt] says and I quote :

69:40-45 That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger. It is not poet's speech - little is it that ye believe! Nor diviner's speech - little is it that ye remember! It is a revelation from the Lord of the Worlds. And if he had invented false sayings concerning Us, We assuredly had taken him by the right hand

81:19-24 Verily this is the word of a most honourable Messenger, Endued with Power, with rank before the Lord of the Throne, With authority there, (and) faithful of his trust. And (O people!) your companion is not one possessed; And without doubt he saw him in the clear horizon. Neither doth he withhold grudgingly a knowledge of the Unseen. Nor is it the word of an evil spirit accursed.

I think sister zina.khan is not aware that H.Jibrail[as] was the messenger of allah[swt] who used to convey allah's[swt] message[wahi] to rasool[saw]

.....In the above aayats allah[swt] made it very clear that not only he is most honourable of messengers but is also vested with power and authority....what authority ?? Well that we would let zina.khan explain to us

That is what the enemies of the Prophet used to claim...

you're right sister !!! ......Mistranslation is the main cause of trouble in islamic world

These ‘authorities’ conveniently contradict countless verses that clearly state, “The Qur’an is the Word of God”, and thus, knowingly or unknowingly, they attempt to demolish the very foundation, the Divine Revelation, of the Glorious Book.

But how did the verse 69:40 and 81:19 contradict sister ?? Can you elaborate ??

The chronological order isn't correct !

Sister are you saying quran is complete but is in chronological order ?

The longer suras are all in front and the shorter ones at the end ! If Allah had perfected Islam as early as Sura 5 then how come HE sent additional 109 Suras? Why was 5:67 revealed after 5:3 " Kindly explain !

What does longer sura being in front and shorter ones being in the end has to do with its genuinity sister ?.... If you say the imam of the time has the correct interpretation of the holy quran , I would have believed you but simply saying what ishna sharis often say does not make any sense !!....I wanna know what you think of holy quran

1] Is it a false
2] Is it chronological in nature
3] It is incomplete

Coming back to the point i.e 5:3....We ismailis should 1st try to understand in what period this surah was revealed !!

The theme of this Surah indicates, and traditions support it, that it was revealed after the treaty of Hudaibiyah at the end of 6 A. H. or in the beginning of 7 A. H. That is why it deals with those problems that arose from this treaty.

The Holy Prophet with 1400 Muslims went to Makkah in Zil-Qaadah 6 A.H. to perform `Umrah, but the Quraish spurred by their enmity, prevented him from its performance, though it was utterly against all the ancient religious traditions of Arabia. After a good deal of hard and harsh negotiations, a treaty was concluded at Hudaibiyah according to which it was agreed that he could perform `Umrah the following year.

That was a very appropriate occasion for teaching the Muslims the right way of performing a pilgrimage to Makkah with the true Islamic dignity, and enjoining that they should not prevent the disbelievers from performing pilgrimage to Makkah as a retaliation for their misbehavior. This was not difficult at all as many disbelievers had to pass through Muslim territory on their way to Makkah. This is why the introductory verses deal with the things connected with pilgrimage to Makkah and the same theme has been resumed in vv. 101-104. The other topics of this Surah also appear to belong to the same period.

The continuity of the subject shows that most probably the whole of the Surah was revealed as a single discourse at one and the same time. It is also possible that some of its verses were revealed at a later period and inserted in this Surah at different places where they fitted in. But there appears to be not the least gap anywhere in the Surah to show that it might have comprised two or more discourses.

This Surah was revealed to suit the requirements of the changed conditions which were now different from those prevailing at the time of the revelation of Al-i-'Imran and An- Nisa. Then the shock of the set-back at Uhd had made the very surroundings of Al-Madinah dangerous for the Muslims, but now Islam had become an invulnerable power and the Islamic State had extended to Najd on the east, to the Red Sea on the west, to Syria on the north and to Makkah on the south. This set-back which the Muslims had suffered at Uhd had not broken their determination. It had rather spurred them to action. As a result of their continuous struggle and unparalleled sacrifices, the power of the surrounding clans, within a radius of 200 miles or so, had been broken. The Jewish menace which was always threatening Al-Madinah had been totally removed and the Jews in the other parts of Hijaz had-become tributaries of the State of Al-Madinah. The last effort of the Quraish to suppress Islam had been thwarted in the Battle of the Ditch. After this, it had become quite obvious to the Arabs that no power could suppress the Islamic movement. Now Islam was not merely a creed which ruled over the minds and hearts of the people but had also become a State which dominated over every aspect of the life of the people who lived within its boundaries. This had enabled the Muslims to live their lives without hindrance, in accordance with their beliefs.

Another development had also taken place during this period. The Muslim civilization had developed in accordance with the principles of Islam and the Islamic viewpoint. This civilization was quite distinct from all other civilizations in all its' details, and distinguished the Muslims clearly from the non Muslims in their moral, social and cultural behavior. Mosques had been built in all territories, prayer had been established and' Imam (leader) for every habitation and clan had been appointed. The Islamic civil and criminal laws had been formulated in detail and were being enforced through the Islamic courts. New and reformed ways of trade and commerce had taken the place of the old ones. The Islamic laws of marriage and divorce, of the segregation of the sexes, of the punishment for adultery and calumny and the like had cast the social life of the Muslims in a special mold. Their social behavior, their conversation, their dress, their very mode of living, their culture etc., had taken a definite shape of its own. As a result of all these changes, the non-Muslims could not expect that the Muslims would ever return to their former fold.

Before the treaty of Hudaibiyah, the Muslims were so engaged in their struggle with the non-Muslim Quraish that they got no time to propagate their message. This hindrance was removed by what was apparently a defeat but in reality a victory at Hudaibiyah. This gave the Muslims not only peace in their own territory but also respite to spread their message in the surrounding territories. Accordingly the Holy Prophet addressed letters to the rulers of Iran, Egypt and the Roman Empire and the chiefs of Arabia, inviting them to Islam. At the same time the missionaries of Islam spread among the clans and tribes and invited them to accept the Divine Way of Allah. These were the circumstances at the time when Al-Ma'idah was revealed.

Dint I tell you tht you never read quran ??? .....You just write quran ....and thats all your could do sister !!!

I may not be a BATINI ISMAILI like you ...but iam not a BATUDIYA ISMAILI like either

The surah deals with 3 very important points :

1] Commandments and instructions about the religious, cultural and political life of the Muslims.

In this connection, a code of ceremonial rules concerning the journey for Haj has been prescribed; the observance of strict respect for the emblems of Allah has been enjoined; and any kind of obstruction or interference with the pilgrims to the Kaabah has been prohibited. Definite rules and regulations have been laid down for what is lawful and unlawful in the matter of food, and self-imposed foolish restrictions of the pre-Islamic age have been abolished. Permission has been given to take food with the people of the Book and to marry their women. Rules and regulations for the performance of Wudu (ablutions) and bath and purification have been prescribed. Punishment for rebellion, disturbance of peace and theft have been specified. Drinking and gambling have absolutely been made unlawful. Expiation for the breaking of oath has been laid down and a few more things have been added to the law of evidence.

2] Admonition to the Muslims

Now that the Muslims had become a ruling body, it was feared that power might corrupt them. At this period of great trial, Allah had admonished them over and over again to stick to justice and to guard against the wrong behavior of their predecessors, the people of the Book. They have been enjoined to remain steadfast to the Covenant of obedience to Allah and His Messenger, and to observe strictly their commands and prohibitions in order to save them- selves from the evil consequences which befell the Jews and the Christians who had violated them. They have been instructed to observe the dictates of the Holy Quran in the conduct of all their affairs and warned against the attitude of hypocrisy.

3] Admonition to the Jews and the Christians

As the power of the Jews had been totally weakened and almost all their habitations in north Arabia had come under the rule of the Muslims, they have been warned again about their wrong attitude and invited to follow the Right Way. At the same time a detailed invitation has also been extended to the Christians. The errors of their creeds have been clearly pointed out and they have been admonished to accept the guidance of the Holy Prophet.

Incidentally, it may be noted that no direct invitation has been made to the Majusis and idolaters living in the adjoining countries, because there was no need for a separate address for them as their condition had already been covered by the addresses to the mushrik Arabs.

Now read this properly....and see what Allah says...

"SAY: THOUGH MANKIND AND THE JINN SHOULD ASSEMBLE TO PRODUCE THE LIKE OF THIS QURAN, THEY COULD NOT PRODUCE THE LIKE THEREOF, EVEN IF THEY WERE TO HELP ONE ANOTHER..." (SURA 17:8

Thus I am apt to conclude that Allah (swt) does not even consider such compilations as even being "The Like Thereof"...

Is it allah[swt] or is that you who came to this conclusion sister ?

zina.khan · Post by **zina.khan** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:50 pm

069.040
YUSUFALI: That this is verily the word of an honoured messenger;
PICKTHAL: That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger.
SHAKIR: Most surely, it is the Word brought by an honored Messenger,

(Now compare the Two ayats namely 69: 40 and 69:43...do you find any contradiction?) Yes! indeed !!!

069.043
YUSUFALI: (This is) a Message sent down from the Lord of the Worlds.
PICKTHAL: It is a revelation from the Lord of the Worlds.
SHAKIR: It is a revelation from the Lord of the worlds.

Now go back and read my posting properly....did I not say that despite there being ample evidence that Quran is the word of God, the narrators and translators have called it the word of the messenger...and also I was specific about 69:40....and so am I wrong?

Now see what others apart from the THREE narrators above are saying about 69:40..

This Qur’an is utterance (talk) of a noble angel.” (Fateh Muhammad Jallandhary)

“This is certainly the word (descended) upon an honourable messenger.”
(Muhammad Ali, Urdu)

“This is the saying (speech) of a respected angel. (Ashraf Ali Thanwil)

“Verily this is the word of a most honourable Messenger.” (Yousuf Ali).

“This is in truth the word of an honoured messenger.” (Pickthall).

“This is the utterance of an honorable messenger.” (Rashad Khalifa).

“Behold, this (divine writ) is indeed the [inspired] word of a noble messenger.” (Muhammad Asad).

“Verily, this is the statement of a respected message-bearer.” (Maududi).

“This (Qur’an) is the saying of a high angel.” (Shah Abdul Qadir)

So explain the contradiction...shows certain "flaws"....one more proof that the TEXTS are NOT perspicous !!!

Now lets look at 81:19 actually matches 69:40...Now if Quran is the word of God and if Allah's Book is flawless and perfect...what do we assume from all this then? I hope you not going to insinuate that the "Messenger" too was subject to errors? I hope Not !

081.019
YUSUFALI: Verily this is the word of a most honourable Messenger,
PICKTHAL: That this is in truth the word of an honoured messenger,
SHAKIR: Most surely it is the Word of an honored messenger,

Read and tell me if I am wrong and if so how?

Despite the fact that muslims do consider the Quran to be the Word of Allah, Your Aboos are causing confusion by saying it is the word of a Messenger....and then you are showing yourself the contradiction...so concede !!! I am right !

We are NOT at this point discussing whether the Prophet had authority or not? Yes both Nabi and the Rasool had their respective roles and authority...! Muhamad (saw) was a prophet as well as a Messenger....

Now who received the revelations? was it the nabi or the Rasool? and how was it conveyed? who conveyed them to the Rasool ? Who conveyed them to the people? we all know Muhamad (saw)...but tell us in what capacity did he receive the revelations and in which capacity did he convey?

Lets see the arabic expression again...

INNAHU LAQAULU RASOOLIN KAREEM - Now Muhamad (saw) was BOTH Rasool and Nabi... and so if the ayah says it was the word of the Rasool but conveyed under authority , then whose authority was this? Allah? or the Nabi's authority?

The intercession of the angel was between Allah and the Nabi and NOT between Allah and the Rasool and so do you see the flaw in the translation ? And so why does the ayah mention "Rasool un Kareem?....

There were some 124,000 Prophets and over 300 Messengers....all prophets were not messengers....now the ayat mentions "Rasool un kareem" and NOT "Nabiyun kareem"...but it was NOT the Rasool who had received the revelation...it was the Nabi who had received the revelations ...so kindly now explain this confusion and tie it up for us !

Please try and read properly....when did I ever say that 69:40 and 81:19 contradict each other? are you trying to pull a fast one here?

Go back and read what I have written ! And then give me logical answers....don't go around in circles splashing water....

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zina.khan · Post by **zina.khan** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:18 pm

Surah al-Ma’ida

By Shaykh Uwais Namazi Nadwi

This surah, like the previous surah is also Medini.

It contains some of the last revelations.

This is why Anas and A’aisha would say: Maida is the last surah to have been revealed.

Therefore regard its Hall as the final Halal and Haram as the last Haram (i.e. there is no abrogation in this surah).

The Surah focuses on Mu’amalaat i.e. social life and affairs.

The previous surah titled Nisa, ‘Women’ indicates that its’ focus is on the inner dimensions of social life and its foundations while Ma’ida focuses more on the outer domain, such as diplomatic relations and contracts and oaths, with special references and insights to the people of the book as the Islamic movement had settled in Medina and made its mark there.

Both names signify and symbolize this; the woman is the backbone of society and ma’ida, feasts are a manifestation of social life.

The surah starts with an imperative; an imperative that is the very essence of healthy social life.

Allah does not want man to live in seclusion but encourages integration and socialization.

But socialization without trust cannot reap anything positive. Instead Islam not only encourages socialization by this imperative but sanctifies it and shrouds it with the clothes of sacredness through laying a social-code.

Additionally there is ample evidence to show that 5:67 came before 5:3 and 5:3 was revealed after the prophet had declared Ali(as) as his successor !!

First things first ! the above evidence washes out your frivolous argument...Sura Ma'ida was the Final Sura and NOT the 5th Sura !!!! Lol !!!
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zina.khan · Post by **zina.khan** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 6:52 am

There is ample evidence to show that the Mullah Viru is churning out fairy tales....Lol ! he wants me and others to believe that teaching a ritual of how to do Hajj means or implies "perfection" of Islam....sounds extremely felicitous !

In my last post I have shown that some of the key SUNNIs also agree that the ayats in questions were part of the final ayats revealed !

The Truth:

'sitting on the fence' is a common method used by Nawasib who don't
want to declare their true position...they do exactly the same thing with Yazeed (la), if you notice they will not have a stance, they won't call him good or bad...or they will say he was a "Jannati" !!!

As Islam grew in size and the message spread over to far lands, many people around the prophet saw themselves in high position.

Slowly their love for power, dominance and pride turned their hearts to stone and their interests only to worldly possessions, but they always tried to hide their true intention in order not to loose their position of authority.

For the love of power is as dangerous as the love of wealth. Many of the hypocrites jumped at the chance to control as soon as our beloved Prophet Muhammad (saww) became ill and his Ahlul-Bayt (a-s) (those in authority) (Holy Qur'an 4-59) turned towards him to care for him.

This was when these hypocrites hungered for power so much that they decided to make an agreement to go against the command of ALLAH (swt) announced by the Prophet Muhammad (saww) about succession) And turned their backs on the pledge they made to Imam Ali (a-s) at Ghadir Khum.

At that moment, in the name of their love of position in this life, they totally ignored the Message of Islam taught to them during the Prophethood of our most beloved Prophet Muhammad (saww).

They turned their backs on the Holy Qur'an the word and the miracle sent to us from ALLAH (swt).

The Book from which ALLAH Azz wa Jall commands us to follow in order to be guided to the true straight path that will lead us to the Paradise, ALLAH (swt) makes that so clear when HE says: "O you who believe! Obey ALLAH and obey the apostle and those in authority from amongst you". (Holy Qur'an 4-An-Nisa 59).

And these men used any possible way to get the authority over the Ummah.

Sometimes with bribes and sometimes with force, they pushed the Ummah to go against the divine command: From that moment all changed until today.

The Ummah was turned away from the infallibles (who did not possess such character faults as hypocrisy, envy, jealousy, arrogance, ignorance, love of this life [and its power ], etc.) and turned towards men who were not the most learned, nor the most religious, nor the most pious, nor the most truthful, nor the most caring for humanity.

The leadership of Islam at that moment was stolen away by possessors of ignorance and envy.

There are many points to why the Ummah did not "follow what ALLAH had sent down". (Holy Qur'an 2-170). But for reasons, not to make this discourse deviate from its original purpose, I will end this part here.

(Please note that any act purposely done in order to disobey a command of ALLAH (swt) is an act of polytheists and not one of a true believer).

Hypocrisy in the face of the truth:

When the most divine miracle of the holy Qur'an came down to our beloved Prophet (saww) and the pure, truthful and perfect message of Islam spread.... the people of that time had taken position in three distinctive groups.

The first group: The true believers (mu’mineen) are those who embraced Islam wholeheartedly and with true conviction.

This group are unfortunately often the minority and very often obliged to live in secrecy in certain societies, in order that the truth may survive throughout time.

The true believers are those who occupy the ranks of this group, in hopes to be ever so closer to ALLAH (swt).

Their true faith and conviction in their hearts are everlasting. ..and even the Prophet (saw) has said that only a small Jamat of mine will remain on Sirat ul Mustqeem !

The second group: The open enemies are those who opposed Islam openly in hatred and in violence.

Many in this group joined those in the third group, since fighting head-on with truth is a loosing battle.

Many of the biggest opponents of Islam, in the early days who did everything to try to destroy Islam, realised that for them it was easier to join the Muslims and control the weaker hearted ones within the ranks.

The rest of this group, despite constant losses stayed on their position to the point that even today later generations of these movements exist..and they infilterate the mosques...distribute their own propganada for FREE but which are full of their own political "annotations"..

They make wars against Muslims for no other reason but hate and the thirst for innocent blood.

The third group: This is the most dangerous group, they are the hypocrites.

They infiltrate into the Ummah.... They befriend mu’mineen (true believers) and then betray them.

(Today people like Maherally and Virani and their cohorts (the Khoja dissidents) are prime examples !)...

They pretend to believe (especially when it profits them).

They are like a deadly poison that slowly pours into the blood stream, constantly making victims die a slow and painful death.

Their hearts seek only what profits them.

They are lovers of lofty positions in this temporal life and they will betray anyone to get this momentary power.

They love to be close to the truthful believers, in order to try to take position and they love to be in charge of the ignorant in order to spread their social disease.

They are ignorant of their own ignorance.

This 'sitting on the fence' is a common method used by Nawasib who don't want to declare their position, as it may in turn invite questions about the conduct of their own "heroes" who were murderers and butchers and also the enemies of Islam and the Prophet and who had converted to Islam out of dubiety and insincerity simply to consolidate their own positions and to trick the muslims just the way Virani is doing today giving everyone the lie of the land that he is an Ismaili....this guy has featured prominantly elsewhere in other groups using different IDs....and particularly at the ShiaChat where the "mullahs" battered him and at the Bohra Progressive Reform where he is the favourite of the owners and the admin because he is useful to them obviously because of their own ongoing internal feud and where they do use him to further their onw ends....and this is exactly what Virani is trying to do here in this forum....sow the seeds of doubt and fitna ! He even twists what we write on the sly and so Pardesi is right in what he says......in all probability VIRANI is what I believe he is...an ex Bohra Ismaili now turned Wahabbi....

I have weighed many different variables, style, language, temp etc...to reach this conclusion.....infact I am told that he had folks like Znan and Pardesi thrown out of the Bohra Reform forum due to his close alliance with the Admin as he is their puppet ! ...he failed to do so at the Shiachat as there the hardcore Sh'ia "mullahs" joined the Ismailis and battered him...

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agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 6:25 am

These are those who translated the holy quran !

Thanks Shiraz,
I heard in one waez that Mowlana Hazar Imam refer Muhammad Marmaduke Pickthall's translated Quran to read which has good interpretation of Quran as per MHI.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 6:43 am

Thanks Shiraz,
I heard in one waez that Mowlana Hazar Imam refer Muhammad Marmaduke Pickthall's translated Quran to read which has good interpretation of Quran as per MHI.

You're very welcome my brother.....and yes you're right , Imam did said that those who wanna know the exact interpretation or translation of the holy quranic verses should refer to Pickthall's version because pickthall has translated most of the verses as they should.....and not like some who quote the term HOURY as woman with lustrous eyes and what not

zina.khan · Post by **zina.khan** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:49 am

but then "Houri" means what it means and which you have not been able to explain....and frankly if the Imam said what you claim so felicitously, do please provide reference i.e. place and date and we can then do a research....regardless it does not imply or mean that Pictall's interpretation is absolutely correct nor does it confirm the "completeness"....at best Pictall may have done a better job than many and he too had weaknesses as per a SUNNI scholar who is a Professor at an American University....

The Meaning of the Glorious Koran. By Muhammad Marmaduke Pickthall.

Marmaduke Pickthall (1875-1936) was the son of an Anglican clergyman who traveled to the East and acquired fluency in Arabic, Turkish, and Urdu.

He was a novelist, traveler, and educator who converted to Islam in 1917.

In 1920, he traveled to India and became a journalist for Muslim newspapers as well as headmaster of a Muslim boys' school.

While teaching in Hyderabad, Pickthall took a two-year sabbatical to complete his translation and was aided by several notables, among them, Mustafa al-Maraghi, then-rector of Al-Azhar, one of Sunni Islam's top institutions of Islamic studies, and the nizam of Hyderabad to whom the work is dedicated.

Pickthall was aware of the problems of the Christian missionaries' translations and sought to remedy the defects since "some of the translations include commentation offensive to Muslims, and almost all employ a style of language which Muslims at once recognize as unworthy."

He first endorsed the position of Muslim scholars that the Qur'an was untranslatable but maintained that the general meaning of the text could still be conveyed to English speakers.

Aware that heavily annotated works detracted from focus on the actual text, Pickthall provided few explanatory notes and tried to let the text speak for itself.

As much as Pickthall strove to maintain the spirit of the Qur'an, he was, nonetheless, heavily influenced by Muhammad 'Ali, whom he had met in London.

He adopted Muhammad 'Ali's bias against descriptions of miracles and argued, for example, that the Qur'anic description of Muhammad's night voyage to the heavens was just a vision, even though most Muslim theologians argue that it should be taken literally.

While Pickthall's work was popular in the first half of the twentieth century and, therefore, historically important, its current demand is limited by its archaic prose and lack of annotation.

Perhaps the death knell for the Pickthall translation's use has been the Saudi government's decision to distribute other translations free of charge.

The Quran Compiled by Imam Ali (AS)

There is no dispute among Muslim scholars, whether they are Sunni or Shia,concerning the fact that the Commander of Believers, Ali (AS), possessed a special transcript of the text of Quran which he had collected himself, and he was THE FIRST who compiled Quran.

There are a great number of traditions from Sunni and Shia which states that after the death of the Holy Prophet (PBUH&HF), Imam Ali sat down in his house and said that he had sworn an oath that he would not put on his outdoor clothes or leave his house until he collects together the Quran.

Sunni references:
- Fat'hul Bari fi Sharh Sahih al-Bukhari, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v10,
p386
- al-fihrist, by (Ibn) an-Nadim, p30
- al-Itqan, by al-Suyuti, v1, p165
- al-Masahif, by Ibn Abi Dawud, p10
- Hilyatul awliya', by Abu Nu'aym, v1, p67
- al-Sahibi, by Ibn Faris, p79
- 'Umdatul Qari, by al-Ayni, v20, p16
- Kanzul Ummal, by al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, v15, pp 112-113
- al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 9, Section 4, p197
- Ma'rifat al-Qurra' al-kibar, by al-Dhahabi, v1, p31

There are also traditions from the Imams of Ahlul Bayt which tell us that
this was done by Imam Ali by order of the Holy Prophet (See al-Bihar, v92, pp 40-41,48,51-52).

This transcript of Quran which compiled by Imam Ali (AS) had the following unique specifications:

a) It was collected according to its revelation, i.e., in the order in
which it had been sent down. This is the reason that Muhammad Ibn Sireen (33/653 - 110/729), the famous scholar and Tabi'i (disciples of the
companions of the Holy Prophet), regretted that this transcript had not
passed into the hands of the Muslims, and said: "If that transcript were in
our hands, we would found a great knowledge in it."

Sunni References:
- at-Tabaqat, by Ibn Sa'd, v2, part 2, p101
- Ansab al-ashraf, by al-Baladhuri, v1, p587
- al-Istiab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, pp 973-974
- Sharh Ibn Abi al-Hadid, v6, pp 40-41
- al-Tas'hil, by Ibn Juzzi al-Kalbi, v1, p4
- al-Itqan, by al-Suyuti, v1, p166
- al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 9, Section 4, p197
- Ma'rifat al-Qurra' al-kibar, by al-Dhahabi, v1, p32

It is according to this transcript that Sunni scholars relate that the
first Chapter of Quran which was sent down to the Prophet (PBUH&HF) was
Chapter al-Iqra (al-Alaq, Ch. 96).

Sunni References:
- al-Burhan, by al-Zarkashi, v1, p259
- al-Itqan, by al-Suyuti, v1, p202
- Fathul Bari, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v10, p417
- Irshad al-sari, by al-Qastalani, v7, p454

As you know the Chapter al-Alaq is not at the beginning of the present
Quran. Also Muslims agree that the verse (5:3) was among one of the
last revealed verses of Quran (but not the very last one), yet it is not
toward the end of the present Quran.

This clearly proves that although
the Quran that we have available is not in the order
that has been revealed.

These few misplacements were done by some
companions on purpose at worst, or out of ignorance at least.

It was for this reason that the Commander of Believers, Ali (AS) frequently stated in his sermons:

"Ask me before you lose me. By Allah, if you ask me about anything that could happen up to the Day of Judgment, I will tell you about it.

Ask me, for, by Allah, you will not be able to ask me a question about anything without my informing you. Ask me about the Book of Allah, for by Allah, there is no verse about which I do not know whether it was sent down at night or during the day, or whether it was revealed on a plain or in a mountain."

Sunni References:
- al-Riyadh al-Nadhirah, by al-Muhib al-Tabari, v2, p198
- at-Tabaqat, by Ibn Sa'd, v2, part 2, p101
- al-Isabah, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v4, p568
- Tahdhib al-Tahdhib, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v7, pp 337-338
- Fathul Bari, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v8, p485
- al-Istiab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, p1107
- Tarikh al-Khulafa, by al-Suyuti, p124
- al-Itqan, by al-Suyuti, v2, p319

b) This transcript contained commentary and hermeneutic interpretation
(Tafsir and Ta'wil) from the Holy Prophet some of which had been sent down as revelation but NOT as a part of the text of Quran.

A small amount of such texts can be found in some traditions in Usul al-Kafi.

These pieces of information were the Divine commentary of the text of Quran which were revealed along with Quranic verses.

Thus the commentary verses and Quranic verses could sum up to 17000 verses.

As Sunnis know, Hadith al-Qudsi (the
Hadith in which the speaker is Allah) is also direct revelation, but they
are not a part of Quran.

In fact Quran testifies that anything that Prophet
said was (either direct or indirect) revelation (See Quran 53:3-4).

The direct revelation includes the interpretation/commentary of the Quran.

In addition, this unique transcript contained the information from the Holy
Prophet about which verse was abrogated and which was abrogating, which verse was clear (Muhkam) and which was ambiguous (Mutashabih), which verse was general and which was specific.

c) This unique transcript also contained references to the persons, places
etc., about which the verses were revealed, what is called "Asbab al-
Nuzul".

Since the Commander of Believers was aware of these facts, he
frequently said:

"By Allah, no verse has been sent down without my knowing about whom or what it was revealed and where it was revealed. My Lord has gifted me with a mind which has a quick and retaining understanding, and a tongue which speaks eloquently."

Sunni References:
- Hilyatul Awliyaa, by Abu Nu'aym, v1, pp 67-68
- at-Tabaqat, by Ibn Sa'd, v2, part 2, p101
- Kanzul Ummal, by al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, v15, p113
- al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 9, Section 4, p197

After he compiled this transcript, Imam Ali (AS) took it and presented it
to the rulers who came after the Holy Prophet, and said: "Here is the book
of Allah, your Lord, in the order that was revealed to your Prophet."

But they did not accept it and replied: "We have no need of this. We have
with us what you possess."

Thereupon, Imam Ali (AS) took the transcript
back and informed them that they will never see it again. It is reported
that Imam Ali recited the latter part of the following verse of Quran:

"And when Allah took a Covenant from the People of the Book to
clarify it to mankind and not to hide its (clarification); but
they threw it away behind their backs and purchased with it some
miserable gain! and what an evil was the bargain they made!"
(Quran 3:187)

The Quran and its commentary which were collected by
Imam Ali (AS) is not available for anyone now in the world except to the Imams

If the transcript of the Commander of Believers had been
accepted, that would have been the Quran with unique commentary in the hand of people, but it turned out to be otherwise.

This gives the meaning of the traditions in Usul al-Kafi which say that no
one but the Commander of Believers and the later Imams had the Quran in the order it was revealed, and that the Quran which they had contains "what can be understood of the heaven, etc." and "the Knowledge of the Book, all of it," because they were the commentaries and interpretations noted in the transcript of Imam Ali directly from the Holy Prophet (PBUH&HF). Allah, to whom belong Might and Majesty, said:

"And We have sent down on you a Book in which is the clarification of
ALL the things." (Quran 16:89)

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shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:09 am

but then "Houri" means what it means and which you have not been able to explain....and frankly if the Imam said what you claim so felicitously, do please provide reference i.e. place and date and we can then do a research....regardless it does not imply or mean that Pictall's interpretation is absolutely correct nor does it confirm the "completeness"....at best Pictall may have done a better job than many and he too had weaknesses as per a SUNNI scholar who is a Professor at an American University....

Oh my god !!!!......I havent been able to explain it to you ?? Are you kidding me ?? ......So are you saying the time spend on a fool like you was a waste of time ?? You sound so much like bahadur missionary who used to believe what he used to say was the only interpretation......He got beaten up by jamati members in nizamabad and since then hez on a verse of leaving ismailism.....loooool

Anyways the firman that I said I will produce was related to current topic and not HOURI....heheheheh......see how you try to add words and seem like Im deviating from the topic ? ....Its your fitrat sister , nothing new for me

zina.khan · Post by **zina.khan** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 2:34 pm

No you haven't ! I asked you to explain the Tawil or the inner meaning and you have not even bothered to answer...so do so...Islam forbids physical concepts...in the world of spirit and souls, how can there ever be any physical things?....also things forbidden here on this planet are offered there as a paradise? lol ! Sorry ! you haven't tied this save you did try to offer me a childish explanation..go back and read....you even claimed that women will have an equal paradise...lol ! when questioned you evaded answering ....stop fooling yourself....I am neither a Missionary nor a scholar....and yet folks better than you have had a run for their money....so give me the answer...what is the TAWIL (inner meaning).....not a Kindergarten type explanation....you have no clue !

btw..hope you are NOT Maherally's agent ? Lol ![/b]

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:54 am

No you haven't ! I asked you to explain the Tawil or the inner meaning and you have not even bothered to answer...so do so...Islam forbids physical concepts...in the world of spirit and souls, how can there ever be any physical things?....also things forbidden here on this planet are offered there as a paradise? lol ! Sorry ! you haven't tied this save you did try to offer me a childish explanation..go back and read....you even claimed that women will have an equal paradise...lol ! when questioned you evaded answering ....stop fooling yourself....I am neither a Missionary nor a scholar....and yet folks better than you have had a run for their money....so give me the answer...what is the TAWIL (inner meaning).....not a Kindergarten type explanation....you have no clue !

btw..hope you are NOT Maherally's agent ? Lol !

I already did sister !!!

Now since you have this childish habit of dumpin garbage after garbage [usually copied from ishna shari websites] you wouldnt pay any attention to what has been said.....refer to my earlier posts on HOURI and its explanation in other topics and you shall find an answer and the actual meaning of the term HOURI, hehehehehhe.....Stop fooling around and stop being a hypocrite by copy/pasting stuff from innocent ishna shari websites and them when an ishna shari comes in and ask you some questions you treat him as an agent of petro dollars or maherali and what not....heheheheh

premarital sex. khan

....heres what I said regarding HOURI

Quoting only half is not good for health sister ....allow me !!

56: 28-42 Among thornless lote-trees And clustered plantains, And spreading shade, And water gushing, And fruit in plenty Neither out of reach nor yet forbidden, And raised couches; Lo! We have created them a (new) creation And made them virgins, Lovers, friends, For those on the right hand; A multitude of those of old, And a multitude of those of later time. And those on the left hand: What of those on the left hand? In scorching wind and scalding water

Ms. Jack of all trades , master of none .....

Often people make mistakes when it comes to surah 56:35...saying allah[swt] is talking about 72 virgins or naya maal [new fresh piece] and so on !....but the fact remains unchanged sister !!!

Allah[swt] is addressing the spouses in surah 56:35-36 ......Some woman may die at age 85 ....but when they get in jannah....allah[swt] is promising them that he shall bring them into life being afresh !! ...which mean an 85 year old woman would not look like a 85 year old but instead will get a fresh life and youth !!!

cant you understand simple logic in that aayat ....Oh I forgot, you're lakeer ka fakeer , hehehehe

56:36 and shall have made them virgins

This verse signifies the virtuous women of the this world, who will enter Paradise on the basis of their faith and good works. Allah[swt] will make them young no matter how aged they might have died in the world; will make them beautiful whether or not they were beautiful in the world; and will make them virgins whether they died virgins in the world or after bearing children. If their husbands also entered Paradise with them, they would be joined with them

Logic sister ....logic !!!

And again !!!

Already explained HOURI sister....In quran HOURI has no specific gender...this is the 4th time Im repeating myself here !!!....But since you're dumb and blind you're simple ignoring this simple fact.....It is mentioned in surah 44:54 , 52:20, 55:72, 56:22

Many translators of the quran have translated the word hoor as ‘beautiful maidens’ especially in the Urdu translations. If hoor means ‘beautiful maidens’ or girls, then they are meant only for the men....If so sister then what will the women get if they enter Paradise? ....BHUTTA[corn] ????

AKL hi nai hai yaar tujhmein !!

The word hoor is actually the plural of hawar/ahwar (applicable to man) and of haura/hawar (applicable to woman) and signifies a person having eyes characterized by hauar a special quality bestowed upon a good soul, male or female in paradise and it denotes the intense whiteness of the white part of the spiritual eye.

The Quran describes in several other verses that in paradise you will have azwaj which mean a pair or spouse or companion which means you will have spouses or companions pure and holy (mutaharratun means pure, holy).

“But give glad tidings to those who believe and work righteousness, that their portion is gardens, beneath which rivers flow. Every time they are fed with fruit there from, they say: “Why, this is what we were fed with before”, for they are given things in similitude; and they have therein companions pure (and holy); and they abide therein (forever)”. [Al-Quran 2:25]

“But those who believe and do deeds of righteousness, We shall soon admit to Gardens, with rivers flowing beneath - their eternal home; therein shall they have companions pure and holy: we shall admit them to shades, cool and ever deepening”. [Al-Quran 4:57]

Therefore the word hoor has no specific gender. Mohammad Asad has translated the word hoor as spouse and Abdullah Yusuf Ali as companion. Therefore according to some scholars a man in paradise will have a hoor that is a beautiful maiden with beautiful big and lustrous eyes and a woman in paradise will get a man with beautiful big and lustrous eyes.

Truth shall always prevail sister premarital sex. khan

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:36 pm

Here is one book which I would suggest to read 'REINCARNATION IN ISLAM" this books has been written by a Muslim scholar name "Nadarbeg K. Mirza" and I refer this book to those interesting readers who wants to know more about reincarnation and want to know Law of Karma really work?
The authors gives many Quranic Ayah's references and tried to prove that yes, there is reincarnation in Islam and law of Karma does work.

Post by **Admin** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:41 pm

The law of Karma is related to the subject of God's Justice and God's Mercy.

If there is a Divine Justice, a person who has made good has to be rewarded and a person who has made bad has to suffer the consequences. However God is also Merciful so he is bound to give a second change to all so that they can redeem themselves.

Spiritual progress in this world is more difficult thus reward for good is faster and multiplied. Ethics ensure that we are in the proper side in the consequences for our Karma. This is why Hazar Imam insists that much on ethics

atharvedi · Post by **atharvedi** » Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:31 am

There is no such thing called rules of Karam, infact rules and regulations (DOs & DONT) are set by our Shah-Pir. We as Ismaili believe in Karma.

ejee dosh dayaal jee ne kee-u(n) kar deeje
karam leekheeyaa sohee paave.................................7

Why should we blame our Merciful Lord for our misfortunes?
Only such things come to pass which our own actions bring forth.
(Whatsoever a man sows so shall he reap).

Karam is not just count (deeds) from this life, it carries on from our previous life, in our language it is called travenni sansaar. What ever is our present life is because of our past life deeds. If the balance sheet is clean then usually you are not sent back into this world as an avtar, in our language it is called fero or lakh choraasi naa feraa (total coming back on earth is 8,400,000). So if you earn more good deeds and brownie points in your present life it will make life easier for your future life or you might not have to come back. From 8,400,000 different forms we get 84 human forms this life is not our first life and may be it is not our last either.

ejee travennee sonsaar maa(n)he jeela(n)taa, ka(m)pe kaay re shareer
dharam vrat laine aadaro, theer raakhore jeev
joine vichaaree ne bol-jo, veera hak ke chaal jo
narsu(n) rahejo neerdhaar, dharam sa(n)cho dhan kyaa karo
kem karee utarso paele paar, joine vichaareene...............1

O momins: Swimming across the three fold (heavens, earth and
(undersurface) currents of the sea of the world, why does your
body shake? Maintain the religious discipline by adhering to the
religious vows, hence keeping the mind balanced. Speak only
after thorough reflection and careful observation; O brothers,
act upon the path of righteousness. Serve and worship the Master
(Haazar Imaam) with conviction, gather religious benefits, why run
after worldly riches? If you do not do so, how will you get across
to the opposite bank?

Travenni sansaar - three worlds (inner meaning=Past life, Present life & Future life)

Here by saying 'YOU/OUR' it really means your/our jiv (life force), jiv is not soul often people translate as soul. In our language aatmaa is called soul, like plants have life but they do not have soul similarly some animals have only jiv and some have both jiv & aatmaa. So all the punishments, trials & tribulations are for your jiv and not for soul. Soul is a very small particle of Allah's Noor, and our aim is to find our soul's origin and mix in it assal me vaassal.

In one of the farman of Hazar Imam He says:

"Do not think that you are here for what is call one existence"

Farman of Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah:

"Tamaaraa jiv upar rahem karyo te kaaranne tamne satpanth dharam maa paidaa karyaa chhe"

The Lord had mercy on your jiv and for that reason you have been born in true path (Ismailism).

Eji Jiv chhoddaavaa Sat Panth miliyaa.....

O Brother! To give freedom to your jiv (life) you have got (been given) the true path.....

Note: The wordings of the farmans might not be exactly the same but it is some what similar.

Ya Ali Madad
Atharvedi

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:26 am

jiv is not soul often people translate as soul. In our language aatmaa is called soul, like plants have life but they do not have soul similarly some animals have only jiv and some have both jiv & aatmaa

Very interesting post Amir!! but as you wrote above, does soul and Jiv (life force) is really different? if yes then what is spirit? the meaning of English word "spirit" is also same in dictionaries!!
-Does Arabic word 'RUH" recognized as "Aatma" by our pird in ginans?
-Can you give names of those animals who have only jiv and who have both jiv and soul?
-Whether you have answer of above question or not but your post is really interesting, there is not doubt about that.

DOES "LAW OF KARMA" APPLY IN ISLAM?

DOES "LAW OF KARMA" APPLY IN ISLAM?

Ismaili point of view...