Depicting Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)...

[shiraz.virani]

Zealots will go to any extent and malign and misinterpret many facts to make their point. It is their insecurity and lack of conviction in their own stance that makes them attack the belief and the faith of others.

Brother shams....First of, I have atmost respect for you and maherali bhai...Im neither trying to malign nor misinterpret any facts,verses or firmans....I have the book KALAME IMAME ZAMAN [which consists of firmans given only to the african jamat]

The firman which iam talking about are unedited version given to me by some waezeen almost 5-6 years ago when he/she was alive......matter of fact our imam said the same firman twice...and i shall insha allah will post them tomorrow.

Shiraz is unconvinced in his own faith (isna asherism - as is apparent from his posts) that he is trying to shout it out from the rooftops and prove everyone else wrong.

Yes are right Iam unconvinced with my shia ismaili faith for I dont understand the logic behind some of the things that happen in our JK.....for ex: woman applying 5-10 kg make up , showing their curves....wearing revealing clothes and so on...but you dont see me blaming you or maherali bhai for this.

The problem should be addressed by imam e zaman.

I remember in 1959=1965[ I guess] noor mawlana shah karim al hussaini gave the firman to london jamat on SOCIAL HABITS [unedited].....where he talked about drinking and smoking and its adverse affect not just to the person who is drinking or smoking but also to his/her family and those who are around him......Bro Shams, isnt it clear from those firmans that ismailis should stay away from them ? ....Neither should they consume or sell them ?? Are we that illiterate to understand this ?? ....I shall be posting firmans on this topic as well.

What Shiraz has failed to notice is the true beauty of ismailism - where the Imam says - there is no compulsion in faith - we don't issue fatwas, we don't force our faith down other people's throats - and people are free to leave as they choose - however as stated by both Hazar Imam and Imam Sultan Mohammed Shah - this is not a faith of convenience but one of conviction - and what i'd suggest to Shiraz is this;

You completely lost my point here brother shams.....One thing is for sure my love for my faith cannot be weighed ......For if I had no respect for my faith I would be like agakhani bhai or pardesi who are ok with drinking and homosexuality !!......I care about those who sell alcohol....I care about those who sell lotto in their stores......I care about every single momin who tries to do something against the will of imam/quran and allah[swt]....I care and thats the reason why I always oppose drining/smoking/gambling/homosexuality/adultery/idolism and so on.

I know people misunderstand/misjudge me and sometimes like pardesi even misquote me....Its ok .....my job is to learn and ARGUE and insha allah thats what I would do !

If you aren't convinced that this is the right path - please feel free to pursue what you will - I, for one, will pray for your success and happiness. Don't stay within our faith and sling mud at our beliefs. I don't know about anyone else, but I will tell you this - if ismailism is the sure path to hell - then i am glad i am on that path - i have given my baiyah to the imam and now..this is what i follow..of my own volition and conviction.
You can't even say that can you?

Shams

Amen !!! ....I neverrrrrr said ismailism will lead you to hell brother....It's all this cooked up stories that we believe in that would surely land us in trouble....We all gave baiyah to imam e zaman[agakhan] but that doesnt mean that you would start selling drugs the very next day !!

Ismailis have to understand why is it that imam is anti smoking/alcohol/drugs/consumption of pork/changing of the names and so on and so forth.

I always say this to people , we ismailis call ourselves batinis but the way we conduct our material life is that of JAAHIL and this is what iam against of !! And I shall do all i can to reach those who indulge in this bad social habits and much more....and show them why is it haram....insha allah

Finally iam not naam ka ismaili.....I believe that ismailism is not what majority of us follow and insha allah ima start that with my dad [ stop him from doing aarti of agakhan ]

thank you

yaa ali madad
khuda hafiz

[Admin]

You have to learn a lot mr Virani. First of all your definitions are taken from dictionaries of outer space, we all here on this Forum, with all our limitations, are unfortunately from planet earth.

Mazhar means Epiphany. Please read on the subject and it might enlighten you. And help you understand what people here have tried for a long time to explain to you. It would be nice from time to time to have people informed properly instead of people whose only aim is to create confusion and controversies.

Please bring information here. This is the aim of this web site. To bring information, either you will have to ask proper questions or bring here proper information. I am not asking a reply here. I am making observation which I think it would be nice if you read and understand.

Admin

[shiraz.virani]

You have to learn a lot mr Virani. First of all your definitions are taken from dictionaries of outer space, we all here on this Forum, with all our limitations, are unfortunately from planet earth.

Mazhar means Epiphany. Please read on the subject and it might enlighten you. And help you understand what people here have tried for a long time to explain to you. It would be nice from time to time to have people informed properly instead of people whose only aim is to create confusion and controversies.

Please bring information here. This is the aim of this web site. To bring information, either you will have to ask proper questions or bring here proper information. I am not asking a reply here. I am making observation which I think it would be nice if you read and understand.

Admin

Thank you admin....I shall keep this in mind

[pardesi]

My faith is that which all 47 imams[as] taught to devout momins.....ie belief in one god

We slightly lost our track from 48th imam...who made soooo many changes in our faith....transforming our religion into a business....but now people are getting more and more educated about their faith and so we are boing back.....back to the time of 46th imam where ismailis used to practise REAL ISLAM ......thats the real shia imami nizari ismaili islam that I FOLLOW

Mr. Virani your faith came to a stand still after the 47th Imam. You obviously have problems with the workings and authority of the 48th Imam and hence you don't want to follow him. Without believing in the 48th you can't jump to the 49th Imam so I guess you have no faith in the 49th Imam. And this is what you said above that you and the like are going back to the 46th Imam and that real Ismailism and its teachings ended there.

Now don't starting dancing around. Admit it that you have lost faith in the Imamat of the 48th and the 49th Imam.

[pardesi]

pardesi said :

He accepts Karim Aga Khan as the 49th lord and living shah/pir and manfestation of Allah's grace and the rope of Allah. And now today he is denying the Imam his right to be all that.

Omg !!!! I cant believe you went to a length of wasting your precious time just looking [actually reading] my posts.....Good job parru, you made me proud

However I do accept Agakhan as the imam of the time, who is a human just like you and me, but in my words yes he is the manifestation of gods grace......

How do you define manifestation of gods grace parru ??? Does manifestation of god = Representative , The one who acts according to the commands of god , Vicar of god [which I always try to emphasis] ?

OR

Is he MAZHAR = Appearance which means looks like god or Living god in human flesh

Appearance = Image, Resemble, Persons look and so on


Yawns !!

The handle is "pardesi" and not "parru" my dear. Stop this childishness.

As for the meaning of Mazhar, give me a third option here You are trying to set me up with the first one and the second choice is just that as well. They are both wrong.

Nice try but I am not stupid brother! Your understanding of the Imamat and Ismailism is completely flawed.

pardesi.

[zina.khan]

Virani.....You are full of contradictions....and frankly what I do see here is that they are done on purpose....to mislead !

Truth that is valid in one period of time of Imamat will always be the same in any other period but as regards the TRUTH and the Knowledge itself and the underlying essence which is never compromised....what may change is customs, language, tradition etc....if two times two equals to four then this is an absolute reality !

Now if anyone is unwilling to accept any of the Imams or even the Imam of the time and age, then he or she is NOT any more an Ismaili...thus the claims you make are simply felicitous...If people fail to show proper appreciation of Nur e Imamat and obedience to the Imam of the time and age, they will forfeit this divine boon !...also making distinctions amongst or between the Imams is Idol worshipping !! Allah has asked mankind to follow the ROPE (Nur e Imamah)....NOT physical forms but the NOORAN MUBEEN !!! and if Allah says that "WE have vested the knowledge and the Authority of EVERYTHING in the MANIFEST Imam..." then it means just that and Manifest is NOT hidden....

The person enters into a Covenant with God...and this covenant should NOT be broken !

Bayah means to sell yourselves and so the person eschews everything and that is why Allah(swt) calls such people as "Abd' (one who worships) and so regardless of whatever feelings a person has they have to follow the Imam and follow what he says...for the Imam accepts them in his capacity, as the Olil Amr of his time and age...and as also representing the prophet (saw) and also in the name of Allah (swt)..thus the obligation to RECOGNIZE the IMAM e ZAMANA is an OBLIGATION !

The Prophet (s) used to give initiation (bay'ah) to all people and urged them to take it.

Thus we see that it is an important factor in every Sufi Order for one to take baycah with the shaikh, in order to sanctify oneself and to be lifted up to the Divine Presence.

These guides are the revivers in every century, to connect our hearts with the heart of the Prophet (s), who in his turn connects our heart to the Divine Presence.

These guides are the beacon of the light of the Prophet (s) and the light of the Divine Presence and they are the true examples for all nations to follow.

The pledge of allegiance "Bayah" allows people to demonstrate their acceptance of the divine appointment and authority of the Imam and thus testifying that the Imam is the envoy or Hujjat (proof) of God on this earth...

Now please don't waste our time as many of us can read thro' your farce....zk

[shiraz.virani]

brother parru prasad and zina khan :

What are your views on selling liquor/smoke/drugs/homosexuality/adultery ?

Now once you finish with that I would really appreciate if you could tell me

Is selling alcohol/smokes/lotto/gambling legal in ismailism ???

PS - zina khan aka znanwalla, I would really appreciate if you stick to the question rather than comparing our faith with others

thank you !

[pardesi]

Shiraz is unconvinced in his own faith (isna asherism - as is apparent from his posts) that he is trying to shout it out from the rooftops and prove everyone else wrong.

Yes are right Iam unconvinced with my shia ismaili faith for I dont understand the logic behind some of the things that happen in our JK.....for ex: woman applying 5-10 kg make up , showing their curves....wearing revealing clothes and so on...but you dont see me blaming you or maherali bhai for this.

The problem should be addressed by imam e zaman.

It is obvious that you have a problem with how the Ismailis conduct themselves in their daily lives and you are blaming the Imam for this and hence have lost faith. Religion teaches right from wrong and all these teachings are established in our tariqah. It is unfortunate that people are ignorant of most of these. Blame the Tariqah Board and not the Imam. Besides, if you keep your eyes shut in the JK (by the way when was the last time you went to JK?) and mind your own duties it would never come to this.

I remember in 1959=1965[ I guess] noor mawlana shah karim al hussaini gave the firman to london jamat on SOCIAL HABITS [unedited].....where he talked about drinking and smoking and its adverse affect not just to the person who is drinking or smoking but also to his/her family and those who are around him......Bro Shams, isnt it clear from those firmans that ismailis should stay away from them ? ....Neither should they consume or sell them ?? Are we that illiterate to understand this ?? ....I shall be posting firmans on this topic as well.

I agree 100% with you. Lets blame the Imam for his murids' shortcomings/nafarmani. He must be really incompetent.

You completely lost my point here brother shams.....One thing is for sure my love for my faith cannot be weighed ......For if I had no respect for my faith I would be like agakhani bhai or pardesi who are ok with drinking and homosexuality !!...

Now wait a minute !! When and where did I say that I am ok with drinking and homosexuality? You are lying Mister. Go back and find a post by me in the past that said that like I found your post. If you can't then I WOULD EXPECT AN APOLOGY. Seriously!

...I care about those who sell alcohol....I care about those who sell lotto in their stores......I care about every single momin who tries to do something against the will of imam/quran and allah[swt]....I care and thats the reason why I always oppose drining/smoking/gambling/homosexuality/adultery/idolism and so on.

Good. But what makes you think that you are the only one who is opposed to these things. Still this is no reason for you to have doubts about the authenticity and authority of Imam and the Imamat.

....It's all this cooked up stories that we believe in that would surely land us in trouble....We all gave baiyah to imam e zaman[agakhan] but that doesnt mean that you would start selling drugs the very next day !!

You are getting over your head here. What people do has nothing to do with Ismaili teachings. They are responsible for their acts, especially after guidance has come to them. Allow me to show you the mirror. You yourself are against paying of dasond if one does not make enough money to make a living. Do you pay Dasond to the Imam? I really doubt it. Dasond is the most fundamental act in any religion. Wherever Allah mentioned Salaat in the Quran, He has mostly used Zakaat in the same sentence. Your view on dasond are contrary to Ismaili teachings.

Ismailis have to understand why is it that imam is anti smoking/alcohol/drugs/consumption of pork/changing of the names and so on and so forth.

Right! But why just Ismailis? This is a general problem with muslims of all sects and beliefs. There are a lot of other muslims of your pursuation and faith that own convenience stores/restaurants, etc. where they sell alcohol as well as haram products like Pork. I believe the reason why you are singling out the Ismailis is because you have an axe to grind against Ismailism and the Imam. You are not a bit concerned about what will happen to Ismailis who continue with such activities.

I always say this to people , we ismailis call ourselves batinis but the way we conduct our material life is that of JAAHIL and this is what iam against of !! And I shall do all i can to reach those who indulge in this bad social habits and much more....and show them why is it haram....insha allah.

A good way to start. But what will you do if they don't want to listen? Will you then blame the Imam and Ismaili teachings? Remember you earlier said that the true Ismaili religion was practiced up until the time of the 47th Imam and that you and others with similar thinking were going back to the practices of that time.

Finally iam not naam ka ismaili.....I believe that ismailism is not what majority of us follow and insha allah ima start that with my dad [ stop him from doing aarti of agakhan.

What you call "Aarti" may be a flawed understanding on your part. I would suggest you try to learn from your father why he does that before trying to stop him.

More later.

pardesi.

[zina.khan]

Viru....You are running too fast...first things first ! Smoking is injurious to health and so are the drugs...now kindly help us understand this ayah which came much later than the ones which talk of prohibition...

016.069
YUSUFALI: Then to eat of all the produce (of the earth), and find with skill the spacious paths of its Lord: there issues from within their bodies a drink of varying colours, wherein is healing for men: verily in this is a Sign for those who give thought.

Now do you eat grapes? what about Barley? Why?

What is an Intoxicant? and when does it become an Intoxicant? Show me from the Quran where any 'selling" is prohibited? So why do you gobble grapes with both your hands when it produces wine...and barley produces beer? are you a hypocrite?

Many muslim cities are saturated with homosexuality, sex and alchohol ! Why? did you question the Mullahs about it ? If man does not follow the dictate of the Prophet or the Imams, whom would you want to blame? conversely if people who were suppsoed to follow Muhamad (saw) but reneged, would you blame Allah for it or even the Prophet (saw)?....No !

If the heat in the kitchen is too much for you pal, just go and don't waste your time trying to ask irrelevant questions...there is barely any country in the Islamic world where there is no alchohol drink available...many muslims are transgressing but I suppose you have no qualms about it...why?

Whilst the rich drink their smuggled whisky...the poor make their own....

Suras 2:216; 4:46 and 5:92 came before 16:69.....so now you better explain this disparity to us first !

And please stop pretending you are an Ismaili....you are NOT !!!! whether I am Znan or NOT is again immaterial and irrelevant !

So you guys get inside your masjids and do not consider it sacred enough to hold the presence of Allah but have to face another masjid to be able to pray? is that what you are trying to say? lol ! You are just Jokers...in other words you seek the "mediation" of the sacred mosque itself as an "intermediary" between you and Allah and yet claim that you chosen people of God have an unmediated relationship with Allah when even the prophet (saw) had an Angel's mediation and intercession !

Lol !!!

[pardesi]

brother parru prasad and zina khan :

What are your views on selling liquor/smoke/drugs/homosexuality/adultery ?

Now once you finish with that I would really appreciate if you could tell me

Is selling alcohol/smokes/lotto/gambling legal in ismailism ???

PS - zina khan aka znanwalla, I would really appreciate if you stick to the question rather than comparing our faith with others

thank you !

I am actually laughing hysterically at your childish behavior. Instead of asking questions, why don't you look at your own shortcomings and try to fix them.

And stop dancing around subjects.

pardesi.

[shiraz.virani]

Virani.....You are full of contradictions....and frankly what I do see here is that they are done on purpose....to mislead !

Contradiction like ??

what may change is customs, language, tradition etc....if two times two equals to four then this is an absolute reality !

And what kind of customs are you talking about ?? Can you please be precise ?......And also tell me the reason behind it

Now if anyone is unwilling to accept any of the Imams or even the Imam of the time and age, then he or she is NOT any more an Ismaili...thus the claims you make are simply felicitous...If people fail to show proper appreciation of Nur e Imamat and obedience to the Imam of the time and age, they will forfeit this divine boon !...also making distinctions amongst or between the Imams is Idol worshipping !! Allah has asked mankind to follow the ROPE (Nur e Imamah)....NOT physical forms but the NOORAN MUBEEN !!! and if Allah says that "WE have vested the knowledge and the Authority of EVERYTHING in the MANIFEST Imam..." then it means just that and Manifest is NOT hidden....

Zina I have been active on this forum for a loooong time and if I may ask you, Who gave you the right to decide whether the person would remain ismaili or not ?? .....I always argue on various issues but i never TAG anyone as non ismaili or anything else [ yeh I do make fun of people like parru sometimes ].....I would really appreciate if you keep this is mind for our future arguements

Now I want you to tell me sister , is the term IMAM limited or restricted for a person only ??

Bayah means to sell yourselves and so the person eschews everything and that is why Allah(swt) calls such people as "Abd' (one who worships) and so regardless of whatever feelings a person has they have to follow the Imam and follow what he says...for the Imam accepts them in his capacity, as the Olil Amr of his time and age...and as also representing the prophet (saw) and also in the name of Allah (swt)..thus the obligation to RECOGNIZE the IMAM e ZAMANA is an OBLIGATION !

I wanna correct you here !!....The meaning of "ABD ALLAH" = servant of allah[swt] and not what you said ....Our rasool[saw] was often called with that name.....And yes we all [muslims/non muslims] are servant of god....which includes all the prophets[as] and imams[as]...Having said this we have to understand the beauty of holy quran ....where allah[swt] said

"O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the messenger and those of you who are in authority; and if ye have a dispute concerning any matter, refer it to Allah and the messenger if ye are (in truth) believers in Allah and the Last Day. That is better and more seemly in the end." [4:59]

You said earlier that iam not an ismaili !!......Allah[swt] in the very same verse regarding Ulil Amr [that you have applied in your arguement] made my life easier where he said :

and if ye have a dispute concerning any matter, refer it to Allah and the messenger if ye are (in truth) believers in Allah and the Last Day. That is better and more seemly in the end. [4:59]

Our 1st obligation is understanding allah[swt] and what he is.....as i said last time I dont treat noor of allah[swt] as the genie in the bottle....allah[swt] is everywhere !!!......He is above infinity

The Prophet (s) used to give initiation (bay'ah) to all people and urged them to take it.

Alhamdulillah sister !!!

Thus we see that it is an important factor in every Sufi Order for one to take baycah with the shaikh, in order to sanctify oneself and to be lifted up to the Divine Presence.

Agreed !!.....We go through the teacher but we cannot worship that teacher as god [this is my arguement]....We ismailis take that channel itself as god head or in our terms MAZHAR OF ALLAH and hence we water our efforts to be one with allah[swt]

These guides are the revivers in every century, to connect our hearts with the heart of the Prophet (s), who in his turn connects our heart to the Divine Presence.

200% agreed sister !....But the connector[imam] should not be treated as god....its the one with which he is trying to get us CONNECTED[allah(swt)] is our real destintion

These guides are the beacon of the light of the Prophet (s) and the light of the Divine Presence and they are the true examples for all nations to follow.

Followed = agreed ......Worshipped = Disagree !!

The pledge of allegiance "Bayah" allows people to demonstrate their acceptance of the divine appointment and authority of the Imam and thus testifying that the Imam is the envoy or Hujjat (proof) of God on this earth...

Proof of god ....again I agree with you sister .....You're not contradicting with my views....our views are the same but the only difference is that for you Noor of allah is ever present inside the body of imam...... where as for me allah[swt] is everywhere !

Now please don't waste our time as many of us can read thro' your farce....zk

Oh my !!.....You wrote sooo much about spirituality and connection with divine and here you are again using that PARRU tone....what an irony !!

[shiraz.virani]

Now do you eat grapes? what about Barley? Why?

What a idiotic way to put forward you point sister !!! If I eat grapes will I get drunk ?? hehehehehe

It goes through certain processing before the grape/peach/barley and so on turns into alcohol that affects the center[mind].

What is an Intoxicant? and when does it become an Intoxicant? Show me from the Quran where any 'selling" is prohibited? So why do you gobble grapes with both your hands when it produces wine...and barley produces beer? are you a hypocrite?

Stupidity at its best !!!!

The way to practise Namaz/salat/dua is not mentioned in quran.......Do we perform salat while having sex ??? NO !!!!

Just because selling alcohol is not mentioned that doesnt mean you'll sell it......and the craziest thing is you know its adverse effect.....knowing that you still wanna sell it ??....Why ? Because allah[swt] never said anything regarding selling ?? ....this is lamest of all excuses sister !!......Never expect this from a person who'z teaching spirituality to me , looool

Nowadays ....the doctors here in USA say that alcoholism is a disease !!....It is the only disease that is sold in a bottle !!..which means that those ismailis who sell alcohol in their gas stations infact sell disease !!

It is the only disease that is advertised .....It is the only disease that has outlets after outlets to legally spread it and we ismailis are more than generous .....It creates a revenue for the govt.....It is the only disease that causes the violent deaths on streets !! ....It destroys family lives !!.... It leads to crime !!...

O ye who believe! Strong drink and games of chance and idols and divining arrows are only an infamy of Satan's handiwork. Leave it aside in order that ye may succeed. [5:90]

Allah[swt] went one step ahead ............Alcoholism is not just a disease, It is satans handiwork

Is the above verse limited only and only to drinking alcohol and not selling ?? You're educated right ??

Ill be waiting for your answer ..

And if you're a hadith freak then you might refer to these hadiths :

Hadith - Al-Tirmidhi #2776, Narrated Anas ibn Malik

Allah's Messenger cursed ten people in connection with wine: the wine-presser, the one who has it pressed, the one who drinks it, the one who conveys it, the one to whom it is conveyed, the one who serves it, the one who sells it, the one who benefits from the price paid for it, the one who buys it, and the one for whom it is bought.

[zina.khan]

Viru...

What is an abomination versus a prohibition versus a sin? define "eschew" in the context of the ayats shown...Beer comes from Barley ! Wine comes from Grapes ! Allah says eat not only the fruits but also take the drink that comes out from their bellies...there is "healing" He says in them...

076.017-21 .. And they will be given to drink there of a Cup (of Wine)..And round about them will serve youths of perpetual freshness: ..There wait on them youths, whom, when thou seest, thou wouldst take for scattered pearls. And round about them shall go youths never altering in age; when you see them you will think them to be scattered pearls .. and their Lord will give to them to drink of a Wine

Do you see that even in paradise chosen people like you have been promised YOUTHS and women with lustrous eyes to enjoy and that too with Goblets of Wine....and so what is then the basis to say Wine and SEX is haram when the promise of paradise for you is Virgins and Goblets of wine ? Kindly explain !

Viru...you are all entangled in your own spiral web...

You had quoted 5:92 earlier on and claimed the drink was forbidden - and so 5:92 contradicts other ayats which came much later and which I have shown....not only are you unable to explain the disparity but you are trying to grab a straw just like a drowning man who is willing to hold onto anything to survive the argument....

Etymology

Arabic (sharab, “wine, beverage”), from ; (sharaba, “to drink”). Noun:

Wine, or other alcoholic drinks

Which for you chosen ones have been made Pure and Holy as your paradise and then a bonus of Virgin youth or a woman with big lustrous... !!! lol ! and you are still in self denial ! so what are you questioning?

Why do you have to face Kaaba standing inside your own Masjid when Allah as you claim is everywhere? and hopfully inside your masjids too !!!

[zina.khan]

Viru...

The Quranic verse revealed: “But no! By your Lord! They do not believe (in reality) until they make you a judge in all disputes between them” (4:65).


The questions here arises, who will solve the local and international disputes of the Muslims in this age? It clearly means the necessity of the Imam on earth in every age.


Besides, the Quran says: “And God is not going to chastise them while you are, O Muhammd among them” (8:33).


It is the universal belief of all the Muslims that the followers of the Prophet are not going to be doomed with extirpation as was the case with the followers of other prophets.


The Prophet was a mercy to the whole world. But on reading the above Quranic verse, one comes to the conclusion that the privilege is restricted only to the life time of the Prophet as it reads:

“While you are among them.”

The Prophet is admittedly not among us at present, and so are you now under chastisement?

All Sh'ias believe that there always exists in this world an infallible one through whose inherent auspiciousness this world exists.


This infallible one is no other than the Prophet’s progeny...not the ruling sheikhs or Mullahs..


Ibn Hajar writes, “Inasmuch as the Prophet was a security for the inhabitants of this earth, the people of his house (ahl al-bayt) are likewise the securities.”


This is further corroborated by the hadith, “If the Imam were to be removed from this earth, the earth together with its inhabitants would have cleaved asunder.”


It implies that that the existence of an Imam in every age is necessary and indispensable.


The Quran says: “O ye! Who believe, obey God and obey the Apostle and those among you invested with authority” (4:59).


It is an undoubted fact that every apostle is sent to be obeyed by his people as is obvious from the following verse: “And We never sent an apostle but he who ought to be obeyed by God’s permission” (4:64).


Inasmuch as the extent of the obedience is not restricted, the last verse should be treated as an injunction for an absolute and complete obedience.


The question arises as to the identity of these persons who are described “Invested with authority.”


Everyone knows the Prophet, but who are the “Invested with authority/”


To be brief, the commentators are agreed that the expression “Those invested with authority” means the Imams from the prophet's family...The ruling princes, sheikhs, scholars and mullahs are certainly not infallible persons....

Also to solve the question, we have a tradition from Jabir bin Abdullah Ansari, who relates that the verse: “O ye! Who believe, obey God and obey the Apostle and those among you invested with authority” (4:59) was revealed, he asked the Prophet,

“We know God and His Prophet, but who are these persons invested with authority?” The Prophet said,

“Ali and his descendants are invested with authority.”

In sum, the Imam of every age is the Hujjatullah (Sign of God), the Noorullah (Light of God) and Mazhar (Epiphany) of God. He is Mansus (designated), Ma’sum (infallible) and Afdal an-na’s (the best of the mankind).

Anyone who dies without sucha recognition of the Imam of the time dies the death of an infidel...please go and check...there is a hadith to this effect !

The Prophet brought the law to guide the men, and after him the Quranic revelation ceased and men are left with a law, which corresponds also to the exoteric aspect of the revelation.


There then must come those who can interpret the inner meaning of the law and also the esoteric content of the revelation.

In Islam, the door of prophecy closed with the Prophet. He was both the exoteric and esoteric source of the revelation, but in his function as revealer of Divine legislation he represented the exoteric aspect.


After him there must be those who inherited his esoteric function and whose duty is to expound the inner meaning of the Divine law.


Just as the function of prophecy, in as much as it concerns the bringing of Divine legislation, is called nabuwat, so is the function of interpreting its inner meaning to men and preserving a link with the source of revelation called walayah in Shi’ism.


The Imam who fulfils the function of wilayah is the sustainer of the religious law and the guarantee of its continuation.


The Prophet brought a Divine law and then himself left the world.


There are thus times when the world is without a prophet. But the Imam is always present.


The earth cannot be devoid of the presence of the Imam, whose duty is to interpret the religious science and the law to men, especially their inner meaning, and to guide men in the spiritual life.

For the Shi’s the guide through this world of divine wisdom (hikma ilahiyya) was and is the infallible Imam.

The Imam is also Wali Allah and the closing of the prophetical cycle heralded the opening of another, i.e., the da’irat al-walaya.

The mainstream Sh'ia believe also in a Living Imam but one who is hidden...the Ismailis believe in a Living Imam but one who is Manifest and Hazirul maujood !

Now Pardesi has shown your own contradiction....so don't waste my time...you are trying to fool the people into believing you are an Ismaili....lol ! You are now a Wahabbi (ex-Sh'ia)...

"And when his Lord tried Abraham with certain words, he fulfilled them. He said: Verily, I make you Imam for the mankind. Abraham said: And of my offspring? He (God) said: My covenant does not include the unjust" (2:124)...and the word Zalimun has been used....and so what was the Covenant between God and Abraham? and which you guys now don't have? and so the "word" of God is not meant for ....... for whom Allah does NOT care...

"And We made Imams among them to guide by Our command when they were patient and they were certain of Our signs" (32:24).

"And We desired to bestow a favour upon those who were deemed weak in the land, and to make them the Imams and to make them heirs" (28:5).

"And those who pray: O our Lord! Grant in our wives and our progeny the comfort of our eyes and make us Imams to lead the righteous" (25:74).

"Verily, We give life to the dead and We write down what they have sent before and their footprints, and We have counted everything in a Manifest Imam" (36:12).

(btw...who was the manifest Imam when Sura Yaseen was revealed? Imamat of Ali(as) had not, as yet , been revealed...) Kindly tell us !

(Who was the "clear Record"?)

The above verses indicate that the rightful Imams are divinely designated and that they are from the progeny of Prophet Abraham...

"(Remember) the day (hereafter) when We will summon every people with their Imam (leader-witness) then, whosoever is given his book in his right hand, these shall read their books and they shall not be dealt with (even) a shred unjustly" (17:71).


Ibn Arabi quotes the Prophet as saying in Tafsir al-Quran al-Karim (1:30) that, "Every man shall be brought together on the day of judgment with what he loves. If a man loves a stone, he shall be gathered together with it."

Naturally, one who loves Imam, he will be with the Imam in last day....

The Imam is the mazhar (epiphany) of God on earth as the electric bulb is a device of manifestation of electricity, which itself is invisible.

The bulb plays the same role as the body of the RIGHTFUL Imam.

Thus, the Imam is held to be the manifestation of the divine light, which is ever-present in the world.

"And WE have sent you a Manifest Light (Nooran Mubeen)....Light upon Light !!! Noor en Allah Noor !!!!

"And WE have sent you a Perfect Light and a Perspicous Book" (Two things)....

The Imam is the Proof of God (Hujjat Allah) to mankind and the Sign of God (Ayat Allah) on earth.


Ali bin Abu Talib is reported to have said: "God has no greater sign than me" (Bihar al-Anwar, 23:206).


The Imam is the successor of the Prophet and the Vicar of God on earth.


Obedience to him is obligatory. ..


Imam Jafar Sadik said: "We are the ones to whom God has made obedience obligatory. The people will not prosper unless they recognized us and the people will not be excused if they are ignorant to us. He who has recognized us is a believer and he who has denied us is an unbeliever, and he who has neither recognized nor denied us is in error unless he returns to the right guidance which God has made obligatory for him. And if he dies in a state of error, God will do with him what He wishes" (al-Kafi, 1:187).

[zina.khan]

Ali himself was known by various appellations.



One day, I asked two of my very learned Sunni friends:



"Who is this Imran that Allah has mentioned in the ayat 3:33,34?"



"It is the father of Moses," one replied.



"No! It is the father of Mariam (Mary, the mother of Jesus)," said the other.



"So, should I assume that you have lived 4O years of your life with a misunderstood Quranic message?



One of you believed it was Moses' father while the other believed it was Jesus' maternal grandfather," I argued.



"I think it was necessary for Allah to clarify which Imran was meant here," said one.



"So, you imply that Allah is in error and guilty of this confusion, don't you? But for me, I don't see any confusion, and hence there is no need for any clarification," I said.



"What do you mean? Can you explain?" said one.



"It is neither Moses' father nor Mary's father that the ayat is referring to, here.


"Well, examine the above verse," I said, "and we find Adam's family ends where Noah's starts. Noah's family ends where Abraham's starts. Abraham's family ends where Imran's starts.

No new family starts after Imran's.


Imran's is the only family which has no dead-end, which makes it clear that Imran's family has to continue till the Last Day, and this had to happen through the institution of the Imamat of Ali, the youngest son of Imran."


"Let me explain further," I said.



"You will notice that Allah has named the chosen families in the ayat in a chronological order.



The two Imrans (Moses' father and Mary's father from Abraham's family) are dealt and done with as the predecessors of Muhammad who is also from Abraham's family through Ishmael and with whom Abraham's family ends.



So, the Imran mentioned in the above verse has to be one that has to pick up from where Muhammad (A.S.) left off.



And, that is what exactly has happened here. Ali, the son of Imran (Abu-Talib) picked up as per the divine will when the Prophet declared him at a location called Ghadir al-Khum, an oasis between Mecca and Medina, and there is no dead-end to his family, so his family will continue till the Day of Judgment.

And so does this show any "restrictiveness"? No ! continuous chain (hablillah)


The above ayat is so crystal clear that there is no need for clarification."



To prove my point further, I said:



"Islam is rational and not irrational. After Abraham's family ended with Muhammad, it would be irrational to turn around and return to either of the other two Imrans from Abraham's family.



We have to look for an Imran who was Muhammad’s contemporary. So, Ali's father Imran (Abu-Talib) is the only inevitable answer."



Having considered all the weighty evidence in favor of Ali, it should now become very easy for us to accept as authentic one of the most important hadiths (sayings) of the Holy Prophet where he says:



If love for Ali is not present, the believer's total piety will be reduced to naught as dry sticks of wood are reduced to ashes by fire.



Conversely, if love for Ali is present, the believer's total sins will be reduced to naught as dry sticks of wood are reduced to ashes by fire.



When asked by the Umma what they (Umma) could do in order to show their gratitude for all that the Prophet had done for them, the Prophet received the following revelation to be conveyed to them:



"No reward do I ask of you for this except the love of those near of kin." (Quran 42:23)



The Prophet's "near of kin" were his Ahl al-Bayt: Ali, Fatima, his grandchildren Hassan and Hussein; and all the legitimate hereditary Imams that were to follow till the Day of Judgment.


"Allah did choose Adam and Noah, the family of Abraham, and the family of Imran above all people- a line of descendants, one succeeding the other; and Allah heareth and knoweth all things." (Quran 3:33,34)

So now, will you be vying for Virgin Youths or the woman with big lustrous ....?

"..AAala sururin mawdoonatin.."

056:016

Khalifa: "..Enjoying everything"...

YusufAli: Reclining "on them".. facing each other.

Lol !!! Viru....what more do you want to know ?

"...FajaAAalnahunna abkaran.."

56:37

Khalifa: Perfectly matched.

YusufAli: Beloved


Arabic: Kuloo waishraboo hanee-an bima kuntum taAAmaloona

".. They relax on luxurious furnishings, and we match them with beautiful spouses....." They will recline (with ease) on Thrones (of dignity) arranged in ranks; and We shall join them to Companions, with beautiful big and lustrous eyes..."

Viru...your paradise sounds rather enchanting !!!

Hada-iqa waaAAnaban

".. Magnificent spouses...." ".. And voluptuous women of equal age.."

076.019
YUSUFALI: And round about them will (serve) youths of perpetual (freshness): If thou seest them, thou wouldst think them scattered Pearls.

What does "perpetual freshness" mean Viru ? and particularly freshness ? what does "virgin" imply? Will you show self-restraint ..with something unused or unspoiled like the Youths you all have been promised as the chosen ones on this earth ?

Walahmi tayrin mimmayashtahoona 56:22 And (there will be) Companions with beautiful, big, and lustrous eyes,- Wahoorun AAeenun 56:23 Like unto Pearls well-guarded. Wafurushin marfooAAatin 56:35 We have created (their Companions) of special creation. Inna ansha/nahunna inshaan 56:36 And made them virgin - pure (and undefiled), - FajaAAalnahunna abkaran 56:37 Beloved (by nature), equal in age,- I hope it is clear now that your lies will not last pal !

And you are saying wine is haram? Now explain and tie all this up for us...

[agakhani]

Code: Select all

Is selling alcohol/smokes/lotto/gambling legal in ismailism ??? 

.
Shiraz,
Let me ask you one question?
Is eating in American Fast food restaurents is Halal? ( you confessed once in your own post that you eating in McDonalds ) do you think the meat used in McDonald is Halal? nope brother not at all.
So, obviously you are not 100% Muslim because a true Muslim always eat halal meat, so when you are not follows strict shariyat then you don't have any right to curs any Ismailis.
That is it brother.

پہلے اپنی کھڑکی گریبان مے دیکھئے جناب

"PEHLE APNI KHDUKI GIRABAN ME DEKHIYE JANAB"


Now don't say that I never said that I go in American restaurant and eat there !!!

About Farmans:-
The farmans and hidayats always change, whatever our 46-47 Imam told earlier is not necessary still apply in this advance time, look around not only in Ismailism but almost all religions make changes in their sects according the time, situation and trend even Sunnies too.

[shiraz.virani]

Viru...

What is an abomination versus a prohibition versus a sin? define "eschew" in the context of the ayats shown...Beer comes from Barley ! Wine comes from Grapes ! Allah says eat not only the fruits but also take the drink that comes out from their bellies...there is "healing" He says in them...

You're right ....We do drink from the bellies of certain animals.....I dunno how this is related to drinking !!

Abomination = Shameful act, Greatly Disliked and so on
Prohibition = To forbid [something] by authority
Sin = An act that violates the moral rule , An offense and so on

All three are interrelated sister....Lemme give you an example...Adultry is a SIN which is a SHAMEFUL ACT and FORBIDDEN in islam !!!

Eshew again would mean = Avoid, shun, stay away and so on

Again we have to apply common sense here....For example...In order to be one with allah[swt] one must AVOID comminting a SIN that is SHAMEFUL in the eyes of allah[swt] who has FORBIDDEN it

Cant you understand simple logic ??

076.017-21 .. And they will be given to drink there of a Cup (of Wine)..And round about them will serve youths of perpetual freshness: ..There wait on them youths, whom, when thou seest, thou wouldst take for scattered pearls. And round about them shall go youths never altering in age; when you see them you will think them to be scattered pearls .. and their Lord will give to them to drink of a Wine

Do you see that even in paradise chosen people like you have been promised YOUTHS and women with lustrous eyes to enjoy and that too with Goblets of Wine....and so what is then the basis to say Wine and SEX is haram when the promise of paradise for you is Virgins and Goblets of wine ? Kindly explain !

Sister Iam not against sex after marriage[with your spouse]....Iam against adultry and other social habits...........and once again you have misinterpreted the word "HOOR" as woman with LUSTROUS eyes [old habits die hard eh !]

People like me ?? Masha allah !!! ......So long we dont have teachers like you there iam good sister (':lol:')

But I have to say for the first time in your life....you have asked a very important question and if I have to put it in my terms its like asking " Viru how is it that you are against those who commit adultry here on earth and indulge in other social habits ....what about the promised wine, amulets and 72 virgins promised for man ?? "

The holy quran has mentioned the term HUR/HOOR/HOORI in 4 different places

44:54 Even so (it will be). And We shall wed them unto fair ones with wide, lovely eyes.

52:20 Reclining on ranged couches. And we wed them unto fair ones with wide, lovely eyes.

55:72 Fair ones, close-guarded in pavilions

56:22 And (there are) fair ones with wide, lovely eyes

I always shout my butt off since day one when I said , its not the holy quran that is fabricated......Its those who try to interpret it , mess its meaning big time !!

The problem with you as I can clearly see from your debates is that you follow the quran for the sake of following it....You dont care whose interpretation it is or is it valid or not !!

Lets just stop here and think that does the word "HOOR" as mentioned in holy quran = Beautiful woman with lustful eyes ?

The term "HOOR/HUR" is the plural of "HAWAAR"[spell check] which is applicable to the man and "HAVER"[spell check] is applicable to a woman and the above verse[s] signifies the characteristics of "HAVER" which is "BIG WHITE BEAUTIFUL EYES" and describes espically the whiteness of the eyes and not BEAUTIFUL WOMAN as and whole (':lol:')

The similar thing is mentioned in another verse of holy quran :

2:25 And give glad tidings (O Muhammad) unto those who believe and do good works; that theirs are Gardens underneath which rivers flow; as often as they are regaled with food of the fruit thereof, they say: this is what was given us aforetime; and it is given to them in resemblance. There for them are pure companions; there for ever they abide.

4:57 And as for those who believe and do good works, We shall make them enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow - to dwell therein for ever; there for them are pure companions - and We shall make them enter plenteous shade.

HOOR/HUR also means the COMPANION or a SPOUSE [it has no gender]

So for a man its a lady with big beautiful eyes and for the woman its the man with big beautiful eyes.....I know its very hard for your to grasp this but dont worry I will pray for you

Now about the wine.....Have you tasted the wine that flows in heaven ? Or is it as usual belief of yours that just because the term WINE is used in quran you came up to the conclusion that the WINE that allah[swt] is talking about is the WINE that we get here on earth .....In the same quran allah[swt] also talks about rivers of milk and water did you purposely skipped that ??

47:15 A similitude of the Garden which those who keep their duty (to Allah) are promised: Therein are rivers of water unpolluted, and rivers of milk whereof the flavour changeth not, and rivers of wine delicious to the drinkers, and rivers of clear-run honey; therein for them is every kind of fruit, with pardon from their Lord. (Are those who enjoy all this) like those who are immortal in the Fire and are given boiling water to drink so that it teareth their bowels?

Anyways since you have a habit of choosing only those aayats that suits you....lets see whether allah[swt] will serve intoxicants in heaven....where else can we find the answer than holy quran

37:40-47 But the sincere (and devoted) servants of Allah― For them is a Sustenance Determined Fruits (Delights), and they (shall enjoy) honour and dignity. In Gardens of Felicity. Facing each other on Thrones (of dignity): Round will be passed to them a Cup from a clear-flowing fountain― Crystal-white of a taste delicious to those who drink (thereof), Free from headiness; nor will they suffer intoxication therefrom.

So now can you please provide me with the verse where allah[swt] says that the WINE served in paradise would actually INTOXICATE someone ??

Ill be waiting sister (':lol:')

Viru...you are all entangled in your own spiral web...

You have made your stand clear as to who is entangled and whoz not !!

You had quoted 5:92 earlier on and claimed the drink was forbidden - and so 5:92 contradicts other ayats which came much later and which I have shown....not only are you unable to explain the disparity but you are trying to grab a straw just like a drowning man who is willing to hold onto anything to survive the argument....

Wrong !!! ....The aayat that I quoted in my earlier posts was 5:90 and not 5:92 ('8)') and in way it contradicts my arguement infact it makes it more and more legit...Too bad you're losing your hold in the debate sister

Round will be passed to them a Cup from a clear-flowing fountain― Crystal-white of a taste delicious to those who drink (thereof), Free from headiness; nor will they suffer intoxication therefrom.

Etymology

Arabic (sharab, “wine, beverage”), from ; (sharaba, “to drink”). Noun:

Wine, or other alcoholic drinks

Which for you chosen ones have been made Pure and Holy as your paradise and then a bonus of Virgin youth or a woman with big lustrous... !!! lol ! and you are still in self denial ! so what are you questioning?

Hahahahaha.......Having clarified your doubts regarding lustrous eyes (':shock:')....Intoxicanting drinks served in heaven etc etc....I hope you'll start applying AKL and not embarass yourself again n again.

Why do you have to face Kaaba standing inside your own Masjid when Allah as you claim is everywhere? and hopfully inside your masjids too !!!

Again an illogical question !.....I personally dont have time to go to JK everyday....does that mean that If i sit at my store and pray my dua/salat/namaz will not be accepted ?? .......You have just testified that for you IMAM = ALLAH......because for zina khan god is found only in JK (':lol:')

[shiraz.virani]

Here are the firmans of agakhan IV which i promised maherali bhai:

I shall post both edited and unedited version

Nairobi, Kenya Sep 26 1959

Unedited Version

I repeat once again, your times are changing. You could even make a joke out of it, if I say that your children in the next 40-50 years are going to have a cup of tea on the moon, you will probably laugh. Well, fine, this is the way it should be, we laugh at it today but your children will not laugh at it.

Edited Version

I repeat once again, your times are changing. You could even make a joke out of it, if I say that your children are going to have a cup of tea on the moon, you will probably laugh. Well, fine, this is the way it should be, we laugh at it today but your children will not laugh at it.

Mombasa, Kenya Oct4th 1959

Unedited Version

There is no doubt in My mind that when you are parents your children will have the possibility of visting the moon to have the cup of tea. This is a thought that you have to keep in mind because it brings it down to the question to what principles are you going to have in your lives.:

Edited Version

There is no doubt in My mind that when you are parents your children will have the possibility of visting the moon. This is a thought that you have to keep in mind because it brings it down to the question to what principles are you going to have in your lives.:

I have to go now but insha allah I shall post the firman regarding social habits tomorrow

khuda hafiz

Yaa ali madad

[zina.khan]

Viru...The firman which you quote has already been proven as correct as people have already been to the moon and Inshallah many others too will go....so what is the point you are trying to make ?

So you do concede that it is not mandated in the quran that you face the Kaaba for prayer? and you now also concede that one does not have to face the Kaaba or the JK for the prayer, for it to be accepted....and so are you now also in agreement that the majority of the muslims really have no clue then as to why they have been asked to face the Kaaba, though in the beginning they used to all face Jerusalem?

Do you know who raised the Kaaba? who is buried therein? and who is born there?

Now tell me when anyone cleans his rear side with his bare hands, using water, would you consider this as unclean? Does the quran describe pork as an abomination? or as being unclean? Today unduland and malta fever...or anthrax transmitted by chickens and goats...what about the putative habits proven nowadays of the goats and the chickens...they also eat their own dung.....so would you call their meat an abomination? or unclean? or a sin to eat? In any case if these animals mow engender such digest, why do you still domesticate and eat them?

Sura 16:69 is talking of FRUITS !!!! Go and read again...so don't try to short circuit the argument using your gift of the gab.....plus wine and sex has been promised as a paradise for you........

According to islamic law drinking wine is punishable by 80 lashes....but it contradicts what the quran says?

Do you know that this tradition of wine and sex continued under the Ummayyad rule? How come you are still waiting for "pure wives" in your paradise...are the ones you have here plus the concubines, not as pure?

Why inthe "gardens" you have been promised "fantasies" where the woman has once again being shown to serve men? Kindly explain !

Have you heard about "Congergational" prayer? now Ismailis go to JK to take part in it effectively....but you standinside your masjid and have to face another masjid and not knowing why though you claim Allah is also present inside your masjid....so c'mon pal....own up to the fact....why do you have to face Kaaba? don't be such a hypocrite !!!

[zina.khan]

Ayah 5:90 is what I also meant....when one types fast typo errors can occur....does this mean I am losing and you are winning...I am not even done....I am just taking it very easy with you here....if you really wish to take me on then you know my email address...lets move out of this group and go into a public debate and lets see how good you are?

Now 076.017-21 and 16:69 have come much later ..

"...And they will be given to drink there of a Cup (of Wine)..And round about them will serve youths of perpetual freshness: ..There wait on them youths, whom, when thou seest, thou wouldst take for scattered pearls. And round about them shall go youths never altering in age; when you see them you will think them to be scattered pearls .. and their Lord will give to them to drink of a Wine ..."

16:69 and 76:17-21 praises wine and promise you as your reward in paradise...5:90 seems to have been "abrogated" by these later ayats ...

What about 56:17? this also came later ....did you know that during the Abbassid period some of the calips were Homosexuals? e.g Al-Amin...Al-Mutasim...Aghlabid Ibrahim....Abd al Rahman....and the so called great Saladin....sodomy was openly practiced by them and the muslims...so now are the Virgins and voluptous women being made available to you for sexual dalliance?

If one drinks wine and then there is a Virgin in front of him, what other conclusion you want me to make? You are unable to explain....asking me to use my "akal"....that is what I am doing....if you have the ability then tie this up for us...or go and ask your mullah...

Why your Aboos claim Quran is the word of the Messenger when it is the word of God

Okay now lets look at these ayats... 075.017 YUSUFALI: It is for Us to collect it and to promulgate it....PICKTHAL: Lo! upon Us (resteth) the putting together thereof and the reading thereof0...75.018 YUSUFALI: But when We have promulgated it, follow thou its recital (as promulgated): 075.019 YUSUFALI: Nay more, it is for Us to explain it (and make it clear

So why did your Aboos compile Texts? then Uthman destroyed and did his own compilation and then the Yazidis revised it for you? so whose approved TEXT are you now reading?

Verily! Those who disbelieve and hinder (men) from the Path of Allah, and from Al-Masjid-al-Haram (at Makkah) which We have made (open) to (all) men, the dweller in it and the visitor from the country are equal there [as regards its sanctity and pilgrimage (Hajj and Umrah)]. And whoever inclines to evil actions therein or to do wrong , him We shall cause to taste a painful torment.

So why are your Aboos hindering others from the path of Allah?

And proclaim to mankind the Hajj (pilgrimage). : They will come to you on foot and on every lean camel..they will come from every deep and distant (wide) mountain highway (to perform Hajj). ...can you tell us why you are getting on the planes built by infidels?

Why it has become a billion dollar business for your sheikhs as they charge a fee to those who go for hajj?

So you guys get inside your masjids and do not consider it sacred enough to hold the presence of Allah but have to face another masjid to be able to pray? You Jokers !!!

[zina.khan]

Viru....I have NOT even "translated" any of the ayats....it is your own scholars and narrators....so are you then claiming that they have "misunderstood" and messed up everything ?

Now if there are so many sects in Islam and if some twenty different sects wave their own sectarian TEXTS and if each claims that it is the Quran....so then how many "qurans" do we have?

okay so you love sex as long as you are able to "legitimize" it....haven't this been done easy for you by your mullahs? plus you would also not have qualms about deflowering a child as long as the mullahs have allowed you...so are you a "misyar/Urfi" fan? or do you usually do "Muta"? and call it "marriage"?

What about the mistresses many of you have?

I am told your Mullahs conveniently come to your aid when it comes to your sexual desires....so are you able to perform your conjugal duties with all legit wives , concubines, mistresses and temporary ones ?

Your wives cannot, according to your mullahs, legitimately ask you for sexual satisfaction...she can I am told only demand clothes, food and housing but not sex as sexuality is the privilege of omnipotent "pontiffs" like you men and your refusal to make love to your wives is considered free renunciation !..isn't this true?

Conversely you are allowed to maintain the position that your organ is not exclusively reserved for your wives but even for concubines and mistresses...so is this the Islam you have? wow !

You have been told to have unlimited women, one way or the other....so what credibility do you folks have? none whatsoever !

The Quran is clear that you cannot be partial or treat women unjustly but your muftis have gone against the Quran...so at the end of the day you are just a bunch of Jokers.....many muslim sisters in Iraq and Syria have ended up in brothels....now tell us who are their "best clients"....muslims or non-muslims? and they are also sold as sex slaves by muslims to muslims?....so what credibility do you really have?

Your scholars or jurists and mullahs who sell fatwas for $60 only have said that you can have concubines/mistreses and acquire her reproductive organ with the sole intention of enjoying it - animals do this !....or am I wrong?

002.014
YUSUFALI: When they meet those who believe, they say: "We believe;" but when they are alone with their evil ones, they say: "We are really with you: We (were) only jesting."

002.013
YUSUFALI: When it is said to them: "Believe as the others believe:" They say: "Shall we believe as the fools believe?" Nay, of a surety they are the fools, but they do not know.

[zina.khan]

056.022
YUSUFALI: And (there will be) Companions with beautiful, big, and lustrous eyes,-
PICKTHAL: And (there are) fair ones with wide, lovely eyes,
SHAKIR: And pure, beautiful ones

056.023
YUSUFALI: Like unto Pearls well-guarded.


056.036
YUSUFALI: And made them virgin - pure (and undefiled), -


056.037
YUSUFALI: Beloved (by nature), equal in age,-
PICKTHAL: Lovers, friends,


056.015
YUSUFALI: (They will be) on Thrones encrusted (with gold and precious stones),
PICKTHAL: On lined couches,
SHAKIR: On thrones decorated,

056.016
YUSUFALI: Reclining on them, facing each other.
056.017
YUSUFALI: Round about them will (serve) youths of perpetual (freshness),
,

056.018
YUSUFALI: With goblets, (shining) beakers, and cups (filled) out of clear-flowing fountains:


056.019
YUSUFALI: No after-ache will they receive therefrom, nor will they suffer intoxication:

056.021
YUSUFALI: And the flesh of fowls, any that they may desire.


056.022
YUSUFALI: And (there will be) Companions with beautiful, big, and lustrous eyes,-
PICKTHAL: And (there are) fair ones with wide, lovely eyes,
SHAKIR: And pure, beautiful ones,



076.017
YUSUFALI: And they will be given to drink there of a Cup (of Wine) mixed with Zanjabil,-


076.019
YUSUFALI: And round about them will (serve) youths of perpetual (freshness): If thou seest them, thou wouldst think them scattered Pearls.
.

076.020
YUSUFALI: And when thou lookest, it is there thou wilt see a Bliss and a Realm Magnificent.
.

076.021
YUSUFALI: Upon them will be green Garments of fine silk and heavy brocade, and they will be adorned with Bracelets of silver; and their Lord will give to them to drink of a Wine Pure and Holy.

Now Viru, who has translated or "mis translated" ? lol !! you are trying to slither .....not with me pal....

[shiraz.virani]

Viru...The firman which you quote has already been proven as correct as people have already been to the moon and Inshallah many others too will go....so what is the point you are trying to make ?

Hahahahahahahhaha ':lol:' ...Did you said people went on the moon ?? ....Yes Humans will insha allah one day but only when those who guard our moon would let us !!

So you do concede that it is not mandated in the quran that you face the Kaaba for prayer? and you now also concede that one does not have to face the Kaaba or the JK for the prayer, for it to be accepted....and so are you now also in agreement that the majority of the muslims really have no clue then as to why they have been asked to face the Kaaba, though in the beginning they used to all face Jerusalem?

Yawns !!!.....Are you asking me or are you trying to put words in my mouth ?? ':D'

I said the noor allah[swt] is everywhere for ME ....Did I ever said the resting place of H.Ibrahim[as] or H.Ismail[as] is everywhere ?? Did I ever said the station that allah[swt] has appointed for us [i.e Qiblah] is everywhere ?? Did I ever said Ismailis do not offer salat facing kabba ??

As always since its your habit you're super fast in accusing people...as its your hobby

Let us 1st understand why all muslims face kaaba ?? Is it because :

1] Allah[swt] has commanded them to ?
2] We all face ONE direction to signify that no matter where we might be, we are all ONE ??
3] All the above ?? ':lol:'

Any intelligent muslim would choose option 3 for his/her answer because not only did allah[swt] commanded muslims to face kaaba when they pray, it is also a symbol of UNITY and ONENESS [no rich/poor]

Qiblah acts as a point for alllllllllllll the muslims [including ismailis] to be directed in prayer.....but is Qiblah god ??

Dint i told you, whenever you try to do over you always end up showing your stupidity ?

We as muslims pray in a direction where god himself has commanded us....but that doesnt mean that god can only be found in kaaba ?? ....No !!!! ......That is the direction that allah[swt] wants every momin to turn and why ? Well I already said that @ above

I personally wouldnt mind sleeping with my feet facing towards kaaba....because for me it is just a direction with which I can communicate with god....but that Qiblah is not my god !!!.........Lemme give you a little anecdote involving Guru Nanak Saheb. He had travelled to Mecca and fell asleep. His feet were pointed to the Kaaba. One of the guards got really angry and told him to show respect and point his feet elsewhere. Guru Nanak replied, " alright my son, please point my feet to another direction where God isn't present." The guard realised his mistake, a reminder that God is everywhere.

Do you know who raised the Kaaba? who is buried therein? and who is born there?

If somebody was born there does that mean he/she is allah [swt] ?? If one of my child is born in Imams[as] house....does that make my child imam by default ? ':lol:'

Now tell me when anyone cleans his rear side with his bare hands, using water, would you consider this as unclean? Does the quran describe pork as an abomination? or as being unclean? Today unduland and malta fever...or anthrax transmitted by chickens and goats...what about the putative habits proven nowadays of the goats and the chickens...they also eat their own dung.....so would you call their meat an abomination? or unclean? or a sin to eat? In any case if these animals mow engender such digest, why do you still domesticate and eat them?

Oh my god !!! .....Who am I debating with ? A 12 year old ?? ......Dont you wash you hands with a soap after you wash your rear ? I guess you dont !

The term used in quran is FORBIDDEN ...I know you dont read quran so lemme help you :

5:4 " Forbidden to you for (food) are: dead meat,blood and the flesh of the swine and that which hath been invoked the name other than Allah. "

What does Forbidden mean sister ? ':lol:'

Sura 16:69 is talking of FRUITS !!!! Go and read again...so don't try to short circuit the argument using your gift of the gab.....plus wine and sex has been promised as a paradise for you........

I dunno why you are even discussing surah Nahl verse 69 over here....it is irrelevant !

You still havent answered my question ,I asked you can you please tell me what kind of wine will allah[swt] serve to momins in paradise ?? Im waiting !!!!!

According to islamic law drinking wine is punishable by 80 lashes....but it contradicts what the quran says?

Which law ?? Who made that law ? Was it allah[swt] ?? Can you please show me 80 lashes as prescribed by this so called ISLAMIC LAW from the holy quran ??

Do you know that this tradition of wine and sex continued under the Ummayyad rule? How come you are still waiting for "pure wives" in your paradise...are the ones you have here plus the concubines, not as pure?

So are you tempting me to have sex with someone other than my wife ?? Thanks but No thanks !!!

Just because ummayyads did this sinful act...we should do it ?? This is how you justify your statement sister ??

Why in the "gardens" you have been promised "fantasies" where the woman has once again being shown to serve men? Kindly explain !

So are you saying that no matter what a woman does[good or bad] she'll be going in hell ??? Are you in doubt that you wont be treated equally ?? I feel pity on you and those who have brain washed you sister....And also can you kindly quote me an aayat that talks about 72 virgins and what not ??

Have you heard about "Congergational" prayer? now Ismailis go to JK to take part in it effectively....but you standinside your masjid and have to face another masjid and not knowing why though you claim Allah is also present inside your masjid....so c'mon pal....own up to the fact....why do you have to face Kaaba? don't be such a hypocrite !!!

Hahahahahaha......you have lost it zina.khan ....But I have to tell you that your parents have given you a superb name....that which suits you the best ZINA

Anyways lemme teach you some basics about other sects....just like ismailis other muslim sect have a spiritual audience with allah[swt] through their prayers.....facing in the direction of qiblah they affirm their oath of being steadfast to allah[swt]....as i said earlier , they affirm unity and oneness of allah by facing qiblah[direction].....The very opening sentence of the namaz and if iam correct is "Allahu Akbar" which means "god is great"and so on !!

Lets not get in further detail sister....can you please tell us the meaning of MOSQUE ?

Google it and all your problems would be solved insha allah ':lol:'

[shiraz.virani]

yah 5:90 is what I also meant....when one types fast typo errors can occur....does this mean I am losing and you are winning...I am not even done....I am just taking it very easy with you here....if you really wish to take me on then you know my email address...lets move out of this group and go into a public debate and lets see how good you are?

Im sorry but I dont know your email address....I would be more than happy to educate and get educated sister

Now 076.017-21 and 16:69 have come much later ..

"...And they will be given to drink there of a Cup (of Wine)..And round about them will serve youths of perpetual freshness: ..There wait on them youths, whom, when thou seest, thou wouldst take for scattered pearls. And round about them shall go youths never altering in age; when you see them you will think them to be scattered pearls .. and their Lord will give to them to drink of a Wine ..."

16:69 and 76:17-21 praises wine and promise you as your reward in paradise...5:90 seems to have been "abrogated" by these later ayats ...

hahahahahahhaha....What kind of wine is allah[swt] talking about in surah 76:17 sister ???? You still havent answered my question sister !!! What kind of wine ?? Is it intoxicant ?

Once again you have misinterpreted that particular verse i.e 76:17 sister....there are two things that allah[swt] has mentioned in that verse

1] Zanjabil = Ginger
2] Salsabil = Fountain in paradise

.....the actual verse goes like this

76:17-21 There are they watered with a cup whereof the mixture is of Ginger [Zanjabil], The water of a spring therein, named Fountain of Paradise [Salsabil]. There, serve them youths of ever lasting youths, whom, when thou seest, thou wouldst take for scattered pearls. When thou seest, thou wilt see there bliss and high estate. Their raiment will be fine green silk and gold embroidery. Bracelets of silver will they wear. Their Lord will slake their thirst with a pure drink.

D

And the boys will be there only to serve that drink ....Just like we have CUPS/BULBULS in our jk....little kids serving water in our JK.....Do we sodomise them ?? Have you no shame sister ??

What about 56:17? this also came later ....did you know that during the Abbassid period some of the calips were Homosexuals? e.g Al-Amin...Al-Mutasim...Aghlabid Ibrahim....Abd al Rahman....and the so called great Saladin....sodomy was openly practiced by them and the muslims...so now are the Virgins and voluptous women being made available to you for sexual dalliance?

People say that our 26th imam[as] was killed by his homo sexual lover....I dont believe this but does that mean that I should support those who are not proud of their gender ??

Kindly tell us what does allah[swt] has to say about homosexual in holy quran ??

Why is it that if somebody in early times did it......we have to do it as well ?? You dont make sense sister !! .....For example god forbid....If you're dad is a rapist....would you become the same ??

Why your Aboos claim Quran is the word of the Messenger when it is the word of God

Aboo who ?? Are you referring to agakhan ?

Lets just clear this misconception of yours before we move on !!! .....Dont choke yourself now !!....I know truth always hurts

[zina.khan]

The Aga Khan is not your Aboo...isn't it now clear that you were simply acting coy? The Aga Khan is the Aboo of the Ismailis....or is this too unclear to you?

Allah is everywhere, the Ismailis do know....you can yawn as much....when you do not have clear answers, then "good" muslimos start "yawning"...what you haven't told us is that why you guys standing from your masjids have to face another masjid, for prayer? why? Is Allah not present in your masjid? Yes! sure HE is everywhere and this is exactly the point Ismailis have been asserting but dysfuctional brains do not seem to get the point...

$100 Million Moon Trip: Space Tourism's Hot Ticket?
Victoria Gilman
National Geographic News

Working with Russian space officials, a private firm plans to sell a flyby trip to the moon. Price per passenger: 100 million dollars (U.S.).

If the plan takes off, two space tourists and their pilot would spend 10 to 21 days crammed in a passenger car-size Soyuz space module.

Internet Tycoon, 28, Heads Aloft as "Space Tourist"

The length of the trip depends on whether it includes a stop at the International Space Station.

Space Adventures, based in Arlington, Virginia, today announced their agreement with the Russian Aviation and Space Agency for a lunar look-see—the latest, most ambitious trip offered to private space tourists.

Organizers say the trip could launch in three to four years. ...and so what were you laughing about? I do not like pompous buffoons !

Now can you please tell us why muslims have to face the Kaaba? Please give us the answer...don't beat around the bush like a typical ....never mind !

[zina.khan]

Virun dra....(Najmi)

Quran makes no mention of Salat (prayer)...it says : So from whencesoever Thou startest forth, turn Thy face in the direction of the sacred Mosque; ... and ye May be guided:

(do you see.."and ye may be guided..")

Whencesoever thou comest forth and that ye may be guided: And from whatsoever place you come forth, turn your face towards the Sacred Mosque; ..that you may walk on the right course....apparently there is a different meaning to this dictate...and 2:115 proves you muslims wrong

2:150 warns about those who refuse to adhere to the actual spirit of the ayah in its totality...like the ones who betrayed the Prophet (saw)...and reneged on their bayah...or those who cheat Allah and HIS prophet and refuse to give their share or the return of the "amanat" and pocket this amanat and thereby eat haram...or like you who shifts from following 46 Imams to following 49 Imams and so on and so forth like a child who plays with his toys....do you think people are fools?

Ayah 2:115 categorically says: " To God belongs the East and the West..WITHERSOEVER YE TURN THERE IS THE PRESENCE OF GOD FOR GOD IS ALL PERVADING..ALL-KNOWING

This is abundantly explicit and clear...Allah says.." and each one hath a goal toward which he turneth; so vie with one another in good works.....and wherever ye may be, Allah will bring you all together...Lo! Allah is able to do all things...(are you following this command of Allah? No ! you are vexatious and stove full of trickery...so you are a polytheist as on purpose and knowingly you have disrespected Allah's command...)

" and so the goal or the aim is to be God fearing and good - virtues unknown to many of you !....achieve Jihad bin nafs...Jihad bil Maal; Jihad bil Ilm...Jihad bish shuja and Jihad bil fardz

If someone wishes to pray facing any mosque (as all mosques are sacred), why would it be wrong?...and so ismailis are NOT wrong...shows they know what they are doing !

God is Everywhere....and so you have no basis whatsoever of pointing any fingers at anyone....but you need to still explain why muslims are facing the Kaaba? why?

002.177 ..It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West; but it is righteousness- to believe in Allah and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for those who ask, to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm in adversity.. Such are the people of truth, the Allah-fearing. ( so you have not fulfilled the contracts....Allah says you are not a person of Truth...)

Qibla implies belief in Allah but mere belief is not enough also if it is just a theory like you folks have...there must be self development....some of you are the most under developed - both mentally and spiritually...your spirits and morals are in a state of ebb and flow and you only crave for a good life and so any successful achievement of the qibla means you are in touch with the all Pure !..and this state you haven't achieved....all you know is how to cause fitna...

You are in conspiracy with the devil...and the satan is your fountain head ! Your lover !

Allah says that the true believers are those who strive with their wealth also for a cause of Allah....you cheat Allah and the Prophet instead....Allah calls such people NIGGARDLY

The word is sedentary in the language of the quran....full of spiritual apathy...that is then the state of most of your cult !

By simply facing Kaaba you cannot assume the "pain" in obeying Allah in totality and so you haven't understood the direction or the goal itself

The prophet said that the great Jihad is to speak the truth which you guys have not learnt nor you can ever speak the truth....you are cowards and lack courage to face realities and prefer to live in delusion...you have a duty to spread virtue....instead you spread fitna and hatred....you do not have any right conduct and you are indecent and you lack wisdom and exhortation that Allah encourages...you do not propagate goodness either by speech or actions...you are spiritually redundant

Allah says.." MEN whom neither merchandise nor sale beguileth them from doing REMEMBRANCE and constant in Prayer and paying the ZAKAT...they fear a day when hearts and eyeballs will be overturned... what did you achieve from your religion? barely much ! Allah calls you sedentary !!! You lie ! and you are full of revenge ! This isn't Islam !

Those who sacrifice their sleep at the luminous hour in the night and wake up to do Zikr and remember Allah (swt) are the brave ones who actually strive in the way of Allah....Allah says..

" verily getting up at night is the most potent means of subduing the self and most effective in respect of PRAYERS.." - did you read the last part? U R NOT a Mujahideen of God

The love of women and wealth have come in your lives so much that your own Qibla is eroded and love for Allah and Abraham and Ismael and Al e Imran is virtually non existent....and hence the Qibla is almost at a zero level
Kindly prove to me from the quran that you were directed to face kaaba for salat and you haven't been able to do so...the ayats do not mention salat at all...it mentions a goal or a direction one must take....but Allah says whichever way ye turn there is God....and why would you go inside a mosque of Allah only to face another mosque unless God is absent from your mosques? is that what you guys are trying to prove to the world that God only resides in Mecca?

The greater Jihad is to fight against your own ego ! You are helpless as Iblis is wearing your garb...you are over whelmed by the temptations thrown at you and have sold your faith for a pittance....facing qibla is to be able to take the pain and make the sacrifices necessary to strive for spiritual attainment and nearness to Allah through the intercession of the Prophets and the Imams....but instead you seek material gains...and so you are not equal to those who strive correctly... If anyone changes the bequest after hearing it, the guilt shall be on those who make the change ....For Allah hears and knows (All things).

And whoso changeth (the will after he hath heard it - the sin thereof is only upon those who change it. Lo! Allah is Hearer, Knower

And this is what you have done ...

2.195 .And spend of your substance in the cause of Allah, and make not your own hands contribute to (your) destruction; but do good....u do the opp !!

"..And when it is said to them: Follow what ALLAH has sent down, they say: "Not that! But we will follow what we found our fathers upon". What? Even though their fathers were void of wisdom and guidance?

The parable of those who disbelieve is as the parable of one who calls; but they hear nothing, except a call and a cry. Deaf, dumb and blind, so they understand not".

(The Holy Quran 2 Al- Baqarah 170-171)...

" the qibla of a muslim must be in tune with what Allah has sent down

Imam Sadiq (a-s) said: "The hypocrite is content to be far from the mercy of ALLAH (swt), because his outward actions appear to be in line with Islamic laws and yet he is heedless and ineffective, mocking and transgressing its truthfulness in his heart". (Masbah-Shariat, section 1.

The Prophet (saww) said:

"O Ali, whoever hates you, ALLAH (swt) shall cause him to die the death of infidels, and on the day of Judgement, will ask him to account for his deeds ". (Al-Amaali Shaykh al-Mufid

[zina.khan]

The old enemies of the 26th Imam conspired to kill him and it was Hasan Mazandaran, who killed the Imam on 29th Shawal, 653/December 1, 1255. near his sheep-fold in the village of Shirkuh in the western part of the district of Alamut.....

Your derogatory allegations are just the thoughts of a filthy mind....


In summer of 643/1246, on the enthronement of Guyuk (1246-1248), the next new Mongol’s chief...


Imam Alauddin Muhammad, along with the Abbasid caliph al-Mustasim (640-656/1242-1258) and many other Muslim rulers, sent a mission in the Khangai mountains in Central Mongolia.


The Ismaili ambassadors, Shihabuddin and Shamsuddin, the former governors of Kohistan delivered a memorandum to Guyuk. Neither they nor the Abbasid ambassador were well received, and on that juncture, the Mongol demonstrated a negative attitude towards the Muslim rules.....

Juvaini has forged many accounts...and Mongols destroyed most of the libraries also and forged some of the books to malign the Ismaili Imams...

Go and read history....go and read the resolution of the Mongol National Assembly (quriltai) held in 649/1251.

Read:

The Mongol Empire (London, 1976)
Jamiut Tawarikh
Chronica Majora (ed. by Henry R. Luard, London, 1876)


Then read the books pf a Sunni jurist and historian, Minhaj Siraj Juzjani (d. 685/1286), who spent his earlier years in the services of the Ghorid dynasty in India. He visited Kohistan three times between 621/1224 and 623/1226. Read his Tabaqat-i Nasiri (comp. 658/1260) and Tabaqat-i Nasiri (tr. by Ghulam Rasul Maher,
Lahore, 1975, 2:230-31)

Histoire de
Saint Louis (comp. 1305)...relates to the time of the 26th Imam and Alamot history !

Epigraphie des Assassins de Syrie (JA, 9 series and Mufarrid al-Kurub

Read about the attitude of the Muslims of Qazwin towards the Ismailis...the enmity of the Mongols and the Abbassids who had eventually forged many documents after defeating the Ismailis in Alamot....

The Mongols on their own were repeatedly driven back but ultimately the Abbassid caliph's treachery helped the Mongols win...and then what happened...Halaku Khan butchered millions of muslims and wiped of the Abbassids who had earlier on wiped off the Ummayyad...see this is history....go and do some reading....don't come and churn out your own fairy tales on the sly and then act coy ....

Now this does not alter any other reality which you are trying to negate by being vexatious.....and please don't use the term "our" Imam...cut this crap ! You are not fooling anyone anymore...infact I am even surprised that admin is showing tolerance here....you are lucky I am not admin...it is clear by now you are just acting and giving everyone a lie of the land...

Since the 19th century onwards there has evolved tolerance for homosexuality in muslim countries...many westerners go to muslim countries to look for homosexual pleasure...

Read "Thin Ice" published in 1956 written by C.Mackenzie...then read the autobiography of Emperor Babur...

In some muslim countries they have caravans in which they carry young boys who are known as "travelling wives"....this vice ranges from Persia to Morocco...

Read "Richard Burton's Terminal Essay" and then read the works of Cline (1936) and interestingly enough the price paid for lads is much higher than paid for girls....

And frankly why would ayats 4:16; 7:80:81; 26:165; 27:55; 26:166 and 52:24 even come if such a habit wasn't prevalent....

And so whilst your allegations fall apart, there is enough evidence both historical and philosophical to show that homosexuality is tolerated and enjoyed by muslim men...

Have you heard about the "hammams" and the "saunas" which are decorated most unislamically by muslims with erotic mosaics, paintings and where homosexuals meet...

Male prostitution is also common amongst muslim men...you will even find poems to support sodomy !

Abu Nuwas is one of who is well known for writing such poems...that is why Allah calls such folks "degenerate"....Read the ayats I have posted above....

[zina.khan]

If you go through the teachings of the Ismaili Imams, one will easily notice that every word they speak is full of wisdom and if one listens to their teachings, he will sit in wonderment because of their spiritual profundity...and so a person's worth is judged NOT by how he looks or wears but by what he says...many of you have succumbed to an immoral life and the anchors of your own moral behaviour have dragged you to depths of degradation and ridicule in the world.

You can serve islam better by investing your time and effort more productively by doing some research instead of vainly wasting your time chasing your own tails !

The Aga Khan has a credibility around the world and amongst his adherents that none of you can diminish and that is why your efforts are unsuccessful so far.

Frankly you have helped many strenthen their conviction and belief in the Aga Khan ! You have actually glorified Ismaili Islam and their Imam !

Al-Baqir said: There is absolutely no one from the people that can say he has the entirety of the Qur’an as it was revealed by Allah except a liar; the one only who possesses it all and has preserved it as it was revealed by Allah was Ali ibn Abi Talib, and the Imams after him. (As-Saffar al-Qummi Basa’ir 4:193

A man asked a question to Abu Ja’far [al-Baqir], to which he said: No one can claim to have all of the Qur’an, including its manifest aspect and
hidden aspects, except the inheritors [the ‘awsiya, the Imams]. (As-Saffar al-Qummi Basa’ir 4:193

Al-Baqir said: I do not see anybody in this ummah who has all possession of all of the Qur’an except the inheritors. (As-Saffar al-Qummi Basa’ir 4:193

The study of the Holy Qur’an reveals that there are Two ‘books’ to which Allah refers, in 56:77-80:


“Verily it is a Qur’an most honourable... In a Book well-guarded.... None touches it save those who are pure..... Sent down by the Lord of the worlds.”


The Book (Qur’an) is an honourable book and it is "in" a well-guarded Book...do you read it ? a Book within a Book which is well guarded !!!

Do you think literalists like you can ever or will ever understand the parable or the mataphors or the symbols or the relation of "light to light" or that of "isme Zikr" to "Isme Azam" when both are part of and originate from the essence of Al-Asma Al Husna?

"SAY: Cry unto Allah OR cry unto the Beneficient, unto whichsoever ye cry, it is the same...HIS are the most beautiful names....did you understand what this says?


"None is there in the heavens and the earth but he comes to the All_Merciful as a servant...(19:93)....

God is above all else and is absolved....Glory be to HIM ....HE the Supreme One is above what you describe HIM (37:180)...

All potentiality is brought to actuality only by HIS command and by the light of HIS illumination and the guidance HE has sent......"AND WE have sent you a New Light and a Perspicous Book" !!!!

"OUR Lord is HE who gave everything its existence, then guided it..." (20:50

Even the Prophet had an intermediary between him and Allah...HE sent 124,000 Prophets and over 300 Messengers with guidance to mankind....and so you really have to resort to Tawassul.....

btw...Zina also means one who is brilliant in Hebrew and a "stranger" in Russian....and Zina(t) mean beauty in arabic...

[shiraz.virani]

The Aga Khan is not your Aboo...isn't it now clear that you were simply acting coy? The Aga Khan is the Aboo of the Ismailis....or is this too unclear to you?

Oh i thought just like i call him AGAKHAN you call him ABOO [father]

Allah is everywhere, the Ismailis do know....you can yawn as much....when you do not have clear answers, then "good" muslimos start "yawning"...what you haven't told us is that why you guys standing from your masjids have to face another masjid, for prayer? why? Is Allah not present in your masjid? Yes! sure HE is everywhere and this is exactly the point Ismailis have been asserting but dysfuctional brains do not seem to get the point...

I have already said as to why most of the muslims face qiblah in my previous posts but looks like you just dont wanna read what I have to say and dumb unnecessary garbage like this.....Ohhh I remember you did the same thing in the past with BINOM,HUNGAMA and others....so kindly try to give your answer in the simplest way you could....thats what I did i my previous posts....Try it , it works !!!

Ismailis do know allah[swt] is everywhere ?? Then what the purpose of going to the Jamat Khana ?? Are you saying we dont face Qiblah while we pray ??

Looks like you're twisted in your very own fairy tale sister....If for ismailis god is everywhere why do they go to JK ?? If you can answer this then you would answer your very own question as to why muslims go to MOSQUE.....Btw you still havent told me the meaning of MOSQUE ?

$100 Million Moon Trip: Space Tourism's Hot Ticket?
Victoria Gilman
National Geographic News

Working with Russian space officials, a private firm plans to sell a flyby trip to the moon. Price per passenger: 100 million dollars (U.S.).

If the plan takes off, two space tourists and their pilot would spend 10 to 21 days crammed in a passenger car-size Soyuz space module.

Internet Tycoon, 28, Heads Aloft as "Space Tourist"

The length of the trip depends on whether it includes a stop at the International Space Station.

Space Adventures, based in Arlington, Virginia, today announced their agreement with the Russian Aviation and Space Agency for a lunar look-see—the latest, most ambitious trip offered to private space tourists.

Organizers say the trip could launch in three to four years. ...and so what were you laughing about? I do not like pompous buffoons !

Jack of all trade, master of none !!!....Thats what you are !!....Does this so called module allow people to land,walk, drink a cup of tea on the moon ?? Will there be a touchdown !!!!!

Come on sister....I know you can do better !!! Stop embarassing yourself !!

Oh now when Im pointing out your mistakes [misinterpretation of holy verses] Im a baffoon ?? Good job sister !!!.....As long as we have defenders like you in ismailism, we dont need enemies sister

Now can you please tell us why muslims have to face the Kaaba? Please give us the answer...don't beat around the bush like a typical ....never mind !

Already answered that question sister , please refer to my earlier posts and stop fooling around when you dont how to react to one of the most satisfying answers .....and for gods sake please stop misinterpreting the holy quran.

What I have personally noticed from all your previous debates is that when someone ask you about "A"...you try to argue with them about "B" ignoring "A" period !!

So lets take one issue at a time sister.....Lets talk about drinking for now [in the light of holy quran and firmans] and once we are clear on this we can move on to my other doubts/subjects........For you drinking is ok and for me drinking is a SIN...so lets stick with this issue and then we shall move on to Qiblah/Consumption of pork and what not .

[shiraz.virani]

Sister Zina said and I quote

Now do you eat grapes? what about Barley? Why?

Sister zina thinks that eating grapes/barley and what not can make you DRUNK !!!....to which I replied

What a idiotic way to put forward you point sister !!! If I eat grapes will I get drunk ?? hehehehehe

It goes through certain processing before the grape/peach/barley and so on turns into alcohol that affects the center[mind].

Then sister Zina said and I quote

What is an Intoxicant? and when does it become an Intoxicant? Show me from the Quran where any 'selling" is prohibited? So why do you gobble grapes with both your hands when it produces wine...and barley produces beer? are you a hypocrite?

To which I replied and I quote

Stupidity at its best !!!!

The way to practise Namaz/salat/dua is not mentioned in quran.......Do we perform salat while having sex ??? NO !!!!

Just because selling alcohol is not mentioned that doesnt mean you'll sell it......and the craziest thing is you know its adverse effect.....knowing that you still wanna sell it ??....Why ? Because allah[swt] never said anything regarding selling ?? ....this is lamest of all excuses sister !!......Never expect this from a person who'z teaching spirituality to me , looool

Nowadays ....the doctors here in USA say that alcoholism is a disease !!....It is the only disease that is sold in a bottle !!..which means that those ismailis who sell alcohol in their gas stations infact sell disease !!

It is the only disease that is advertised .....It is the only disease that has outlets after outlets to legally spread it and we ismailis are more than generous .....It creates a revenue for the govt.....It is the only disease that causes the violent deaths on streets !! ....It destroys family lives !!.... It leads to crime !!...

O ye who believe! Strong drink and games of chance and idols and divining arrows are only an infamy of Satan's handiwork. Leave it aside in order that ye may succeed. [5:90]

Allah[swt] went one step ahead ............Alcoholism is not just a disease, It is satans handiwork

Is the above verse limited only and only to drinking alcohol and not selling ?? You're educated right ??

Ill be waiting for your answer ....

And if you're a hadith freak then you might refer to these hadiths :

Hadith - Al-Tirmidhi #2776, Narrated Anas ibn Malik

Allah's Messenger cursed ten people in connection with wine: the wine-presser, the one who has it pressed, the one who drinks it, the one who conveys it, the one to whom it is conveyed, the one who serves it, the one who sells it, the one who benefits from the price paid for it, the one who buys it, and the one for whom it is bought.

Having said this sister zina had this to say and I quote

What is an abomination versus a prohibition versus a sin? define "eschew" in the context of the ayats shown...Beer comes from Barley ! Wine comes from Grapes ! Allah says eat not only the fruits but also take the drink that comes out from their bellies...there is "healing" He says in them...

To which I responded

You're right ....We do drink from the bellies of certain animals.....I dunno how this is related to drinking !!

Abomination = Shameful act, Greatly Disliked and so on
Prohibition = To forbid [something] by authority
Sin = An act that violates the moral rule , An offense and so on

All three are interrelated sister....Lemme give you an example...Adultry is a SIN which is a SHAMEFUL ACT and FORBIDDEN in islam !!!

Eshew again would mean = Avoid, shun, stay away and so on

Again we have to apply common sense here....For example...In order to be one with allah[swt] one must AVOID comminting a SIN that is SHAMEFUL in the eyes of allah[swt] who has FORBIDDEN it

Cant you understand simple logic ??

And then from nowhere sister zina MISQUOTED/MISINTERPRETED and MISJUDGED the following aayat and I quote

076.017-21 .. And they will be given to drink there of a Cup (of Wine)..And round about them will serve youths of perpetual freshness: ..There wait on them youths, whom, when thou seest, thou wouldst take for scattered pearls. And round about them shall go youths never altering in age; when you see them you will think them to be scattered pearls .. and their Lord will give to them to drink of a Wine

Do you see that even in paradise chosen people like you have been promised YOUTHS and women with lustrous eyes to enjoy and that too with Goblets of Wine....and so what is then the basis to say Wine and SEX is haram when the promise of paradise for you is Virgins and Goblets of wine ? Kindly explain !

:D:D ...To which I responded

Sister Iam not against sex after marriage[with your spouse]....Iam against adultry and other social habits...........and once again you have misinterpreted the word "HOOR" as woman with LUSTROUS eyes [old habits die hard eh !]

People like me ?? Masha allah !!! ......So long we dont have teachers like you there iam good sister

But I have to say for the first time in your life....you have asked a very important question and if I have to put it in my terms its like asking " Viru how is it that you are against those who commit adultry here on earth and indulge in other social habits ....what about the promised wine, amulets and 72 virgins promised for man ?? "

The holy quran has mentioned the term HUR/HOOR/HOORI in 4 different places

44:54 Even so (it will be). And We shall wed them unto fair ones with wide, lovely eyes.

52:20 Reclining on ranged couches. And we wed them unto fair ones with wide, lovely eyes.

55:72 Fair ones, close-guarded in pavilions

56:22 And (there are) fair ones with wide, lovely eyes

I always shout my butt off since day one when I said , its not the holy quran that is fabricated......Its those who try to interpret it , mess its meaning big time !!

The problem with you as I can clearly see from your debates is that you follow the quran for the sake of following it....You dont care whose interpretation it is or is it valid or not !!

Lets just stop here and think that does the word "HOOR" as mentioned in holy quran = Beautiful woman with lustful eyes ?

The term "HOOR/HUR" is the plural of "HAWAAR"[spell check] which is applicable to the man and "HAVER"[spell check] is applicable to a woman and the above verse[s] signifies the characteristics of "HAVER" which is "BIG WHITE BEAUTIFUL EYES" and describes espically the whiteness of the eyes and not BEAUTIFUL LUSTROUS WOMAN as and whole

The similar thing is mentioned in another verse of holy quran :

2:25 And give glad tidings (O Muhammad) unto those who believe and do good works; that theirs are Gardens underneath which rivers flow; as often as they are regaled with food of the fruit thereof, they say: this is what was given us aforetime; and it is given to them in resemblance. There for them are pure companions; there for ever they abide.

4:57 And as for those who believe and do good works, We shall make them enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow - to dwell therein for ever; there for them are pure companions - and We shall make them enter plenteous shade.

HOOR/HUR also means the COMPANION or a SPOUSE [it has no gender]

So for a man its a lady with big beautiful eyes and for the woman its the man with big beautiful eyes.....I know its very hard for your to grasp this but dont worry I will pray for you

Now about the wine.....Have you tasted the wine that flows in heaven ? Or is it as usual belief of yours that just because the term WINE is used in quran you came up to the conclusion that the WINE that allah[swt] is talking about is the WINE that we get here on earth .....In the same quran allah[swt] also talks about rivers of milk and water did you purposely skipped that ??

47:15 A similitude of the Garden which those who keep their duty (to Allah) are promised: Therein are rivers of water unpolluted, and rivers of milk whereof the flavour changeth not, and rivers of wine delicious to the drinkers, and rivers of clear-run honey; therein for them is every kind of fruit, with pardon from their Lord. (Are those who enjoy all this) like those who are immortal in the Fire and are given boiling water to drink so that it teareth their bowels?

Anyways since you have a habit of choosing only those aayats that suits you....lets see whether allah[swt] will serve intoxicants in heaven....where else can we find the answer than holy quran

37:40-47 But the sincere (and devoted) servants of Allah&; For them is a Sustenance Determined Fruits (Delights), and they (shall enjoy) honour and dignity. In Gardens of Felicity. Facing each other on Thrones (of dignity): Round will be passed to them a Cup from a clear-flowing fountain; Crystal-white of a taste delicious to those who drink (thereof), Free from headiness; nor will they suffer intoxication therefrom.

So now can you please provide me with the verse where allah[swt] says that the WINE served in paradise would actually INTOXICATE someone ??

Ill be waiting sister

Instead of answering to this question sister zina was in a rush to change the topic and once again she misinterpreted the holy quran and said :

Now tell me when anyone cleans his rear side with his bare hands, using water, would you consider this as unclean? Does the quran describe pork as an abomination? or as being unclean? Today unduland and malta fever...or anthrax transmitted by chickens and goats...what about the putative habits proven nowadays of the goats and the chickens...they also eat their own dung.....so would you call their meat an abomination? or unclean? or a sin to eat? In any case if these animals mow engender such digest, why do you still domesticate and eat them?

To which I replied

Oh my god !!! .....Who am I debating with ? A 12 year old ?? ......Dont you wash you hands with a soap after you wash your rear ? I guess you dont !

The term used in quran is FORBIDDEN ...I know you dont read quran so lemme help you :

5:4 " Forbidden to you for (food) are: dead meat,blood and the flesh of the swine and that which hath been invoked the name other than Allah. "

What does Forbidden mean sister ? ''

And from nowhere surah 16:69 came up in the discussion where sister said and I quote

Sura 16:69 is talking of FRUITS !!!! Go and read again...so don't try to short circuit the argument using your gift of the gab.....plus wine and sex has been promised as a paradise for you........

To which I responded

I dunno why you are even discussing surah Nahl verse 69 over here....it is irrelevant !

You still havent answered my question ,I asked you can you please tell me what kind of wine will allah[swt] serve to momins in paradise ?? Im waiting !!!!!

Iam still waiting for the answer to the above question but unfortunately since sister does not have an answer , she chose to dance on different subjects ignoring the very 1st question that I asked sister

and the biggest of all bluders by sister zina.khan where once again she misinterpreted the holy quran i.e 76:17-21...where she said and I quote

Now 076.017-21 and 16:69 have come much later ..

"...And they will be given to drink there of a Cup (of Wine)..And round about them will serve youths of perpetual freshness: ..There wait on them youths, whom, when thou seest, thou wouldst take for scattered pearls. And round about them shall go youths never altering in age; when you see them you will think them to be scattered pearls .. and their Lord will give to them to drink of a Wine ..."

16:69 and 76:17-21 praises wine and promise you as your reward in paradise...5:90 seems to have been "abrogated" by these later ayats ...

To which I said

hahahahahahhaha....What kind of wine is allah[swt] talking about in surah 76:17 sister ???? You still havent answered my question sister !!! What kind of wine will allah serve in heaven ?? Is it intoxicant ?

Once again you have misinterpreted that particular verse i.e 76:17 sister....there are two things that allah[swt] has mentioned in that verse

1] Zanjabil = Ginger
2] Salsabil = Fountain in paradise

.....the actual verse goes like this

76:17-21 There are they watered with a cup whereof the mixture is of Ginger [Zanjabil], The water of a spring therein, named Fountain of Paradise [Salsabil]. There, serve them youths of ever lasting youths, whom, when thou seest, thou wouldst take for scattered pearls. When thou seest, thou wilt see there bliss and high estate. Their raiment will be fine green silk and gold embroidery. Bracelets of silver will they wear. Their Lord will slake their thirst with a pure drink.

And the boys will be there only to serve that drink ....Just like we have CUPS/BULBULS in our jk....little kids serving water in our JK.....Do we sodomise them ?? Have you no shame sister ??

So far sister zina went upside down to prove god will serve intoxicants in heaven but yet failed to show us even 1 aayat where allah[swt] said that drink would be an intoxicant

and btw zina does not mean beauty in arabic .....its zinat which means beauty in arabic

Please search the word ZINA in arabic [google it:D] and you would come to only one meaning and that is ............