YAM everyone,
I know someone who was born into an Ismaili family but has all of the sudden up and decided to convert to Sunni. I wanted to know...has MHI made any farmans about this situation or what happens to someone who leaves the faith and starts talking trash about the faith and MHI? I do know that MSMS(s.a) had made some, if someone can share and post them, or send me a pm. Please shed some light onto this matter if you can...it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
~S
Question about farmans on leaving the faith...
MSMS in his memoirs says:
"What has been my own policy with my followers? Our religion is our religion, you either believe in it or you do not. You can leave a faith but you cannot, if you do not accept its tenets, remain within it and claim to "reform" it. You can abandon those tenets, but you cannot try to change them and still protest that you belong to the particular sect that holds them. Many people have left the Ismaili faith, just as other have joined it throughout the ages. About a score of people out of many millions-a small group in Karachi and in India-pretended to be Ismailis but called themselves "reformers". The true Ismailis immediately excommunicated them. There has never been any question of changing the Ismaili faith; that faith has remained the same and must remain the same. Those who have not believed in it have rightly left it; we bear them no ill-will and respect them for their sincerity."
http://www.ismaili.net/Source/0016b.html
This is a free country and people are free to say whatever they want. No one can enforce any laws in that regard.
"What has been my own policy with my followers? Our religion is our religion, you either believe in it or you do not. You can leave a faith but you cannot, if you do not accept its tenets, remain within it and claim to "reform" it. You can abandon those tenets, but you cannot try to change them and still protest that you belong to the particular sect that holds them. Many people have left the Ismaili faith, just as other have joined it throughout the ages. About a score of people out of many millions-a small group in Karachi and in India-pretended to be Ismailis but called themselves "reformers". The true Ismailis immediately excommunicated them. There has never been any question of changing the Ismaili faith; that faith has remained the same and must remain the same. Those who have not believed in it have rightly left it; we bear them no ill-will and respect them for their sincerity."
http://www.ismaili.net/Source/0016b.html
This is a free country and people are free to say whatever they want. No one can enforce any laws in that regard.
Shama,
I am not pretty sure that our current Imam Shah Karim made any farman on the topic of leaving Ismaili faith, but there are many farmans of Mowlana Sultan Mohammad Shah in this regard, if you have "KALAME IMAME MUBIN" you can find these farmans in this book
what happens to someone who leaves the faith and starts talking trash about the faith ?
I would say in worldly manner nothing happens to them, except some criticizes from Ismailis , but they loose lots of thing in Ruhani manner and which is most important in our faith. Below I am quoting few verses of one ginan, the meaning of this ginan was asked to Mowlana Sultan Mohammad Shah by a waezen,
"એક તીલભારજુઠ જો બોલશો,
તો જાશે તમારી ભવભવ ની કમાઈ".
EK TILBHAR JUTH JO BOLSO,
TO JASE TAMARI BHAV BHAV NI KAMAI.
Even if you lie in very small amount (even size of small sesame seed)
you will loose all the good deeds you had earn in your all lives.
Mowlana Sulatan Mohammad Shah explained the meaning of above ginanic verses as follows:-
LIE:- MEANS TO BREAK THE BAIT OF HAZAR IMAM
BHAV BHAV:- many lives before this life
KAMAI:- Means the good deeds (SWAB, PUNYA,) you have earned so far
JASE:- means forfeited due this act (break the Bait)
Detail explanation of above verses as per Rai Abu Ali, If you break the Bait of Hazar Imam you will loose all the previlages you have earned so far in your this life and all of your earlier lives, and you have to start all over again and again and need to take births again and again (LAKH CHORASI AVATAR) and after all these births who knows that you will receive salvation or not?
There are many waez of Rai Abu Ali and Babul on this topic.
Actually event like this are not new in Ismailism, if you read the history of our faith you will find it easily, it was started during the time of Hazarat Ali, Imam Ismail, Imam Mustansiribillah and its still going on.
Short history of this kind conversion are as follows:-
In the year 1900 during the time of Sultan Mohammad Shah more than 100 peoples left our faith and they adopted Ishanashari faith In Katch and started recognize themselves as "KHOJA SHIA IMAMI ISHNASHARI JAMAT" same thing happened in Africa during this time as well.
A big conversion also happened in Mahuva, Gujarat during the time of Mowlana Sultan Mohammad Shah and this one was very critical for Ismailis because converted peoples started publishing pamphlets and start to accuse Ismailis. Also "Arya Samaji" also start to accuse Ismailis but thanks to our Ismaili missionaries who gave them jaw breaking answers and made them quiet but this movement continued more than 30 years..
In 1980-90 more than 5000 Ismailis converted themselves in sunny faith in Karachi, Pakistan.
So conversion is not new in our faith if you hear more please do not be surprise.
I am not pretty sure that our current Imam Shah Karim made any farman on the topic of leaving Ismaili faith, but there are many farmans of Mowlana Sultan Mohammad Shah in this regard, if you have "KALAME IMAME MUBIN" you can find these farmans in this book
what happens to someone who leaves the faith and starts talking trash about the faith ?
I would say in worldly manner nothing happens to them, except some criticizes from Ismailis , but they loose lots of thing in Ruhani manner and which is most important in our faith. Below I am quoting few verses of one ginan, the meaning of this ginan was asked to Mowlana Sultan Mohammad Shah by a waezen,
"એક તીલભારજુઠ જો બોલશો,
તો જાશે તમારી ભવભવ ની કમાઈ".
EK TILBHAR JUTH JO BOLSO,
TO JASE TAMARI BHAV BHAV NI KAMAI.
Even if you lie in very small amount (even size of small sesame seed)
you will loose all the good deeds you had earn in your all lives.
Mowlana Sulatan Mohammad Shah explained the meaning of above ginanic verses as follows:-
LIE:- MEANS TO BREAK THE BAIT OF HAZAR IMAM
BHAV BHAV:- many lives before this life
KAMAI:- Means the good deeds (SWAB, PUNYA,) you have earned so far
JASE:- means forfeited due this act (break the Bait)
Detail explanation of above verses as per Rai Abu Ali, If you break the Bait of Hazar Imam you will loose all the previlages you have earned so far in your this life and all of your earlier lives, and you have to start all over again and again and need to take births again and again (LAKH CHORASI AVATAR) and after all these births who knows that you will receive salvation or not?
There are many waez of Rai Abu Ali and Babul on this topic.
Actually event like this are not new in Ismailism, if you read the history of our faith you will find it easily, it was started during the time of Hazarat Ali, Imam Ismail, Imam Mustansiribillah and its still going on.
Short history of this kind conversion are as follows:-
In the year 1900 during the time of Sultan Mohammad Shah more than 100 peoples left our faith and they adopted Ishanashari faith In Katch and started recognize themselves as "KHOJA SHIA IMAMI ISHNASHARI JAMAT" same thing happened in Africa during this time as well.
A big conversion also happened in Mahuva, Gujarat during the time of Mowlana Sultan Mohammad Shah and this one was very critical for Ismailis because converted peoples started publishing pamphlets and start to accuse Ismailis. Also "Arya Samaji" also start to accuse Ismailis but thanks to our Ismaili missionaries who gave them jaw breaking answers and made them quiet but this movement continued more than 30 years..
In 1980-90 more than 5000 Ismailis converted themselves in sunny faith in Karachi, Pakistan.
So conversion is not new in our faith if you hear more please do not be surprise.
I honestly can't say that I find it surprising...it's just very heart-breaking and sad to see such ignorance especially when decisions like this have such a profound impact on your life personally. I'm finding it very difficult to accept that someone close has chosen another path...I guess it's most important to keep in mind then that..."He guides whom He pleases to his light." May Mowla keep us all on the right path...Aameen.
Kalame Imam-e-Mubin, Farman 259, V2, p.97
Bombay, 31 January 1926
"The person who stays in a faith against his wish will become like poison.
Those from his family who force him to remain in the faith, not only they do not do anything good, but they participate in the sin.
If a religion is not fit for a person, it is better for him that he forsake it and if he does in that condition, it will be reasonable and better for him."
End of quote
-------------------------------
Bombay, 31 January 1926
"The person who stays in a faith against his wish will become like poison.
Those from his family who force him to remain in the faith, not only they do not do anything good, but they participate in the sin.
If a religion is not fit for a person, it is better for him that he forsake it and if he does in that condition, it will be reasonable and better for him."
End of quote
-------------------------------