Dialog with other Muslims

[germany_ismaili]

YAM,

I recently had a discussion with some Sunni Muslims, which only except the Quran and the Sunnah as the only Source of proof regarding that the Imam is the right successor. Is there any quranic source which can proof the existance. Also they believe, that of the Sura 3 ayat 7 no one else except Allah has the right to interpret Quranic Suras which are Mutashabihat. The verses has to be clear to except otherwise it will be an contradicton to 3:7.

Is that so?
Thanks

[haroon_adel]

YAM,

I recently had a discussion with some Sunni Muslims, which only except the Quran and the Sunnah as the only Source of proof regarding that the Imam is the right successor. Is there any quranic source which can proof the existance. Also they believe, that of the Sura 3 ayat 7 no one else except Allah has the right to interpret Quranic Suras which are Mutashabihat. The verses has to be clear to except otherwise it will be an contradicton to 3:7.

Is that so?
Thanks

Look at third section of our Du'a (Ya Hai ar'rassol-u ballegh maa unzilla ...). This is the proof that they need to realize. And you can further explain the real meaning behind it.

[germany_ismaili]

YAM,

I recently had a discussion with some Sunni Muslims, which only except the Quran and the Sunnah as the only Source of proof regarding that the Imam is the right successor. Is there any quranic source which can proof the existance. Also they believe, that of the Sura 3 ayat 7 no one else except Allah has the right to interpret Quranic Suras which are Mutashabihat. The verses has to be clear to except otherwise it will be an contradicton to 3:7.

Is that so?
Thanks

Look at third section of our Du'a (Ya Hai ar'rassol-u ballegh maa unzilla ...). This is the proof that they need to realize. And you can further explain the real meaning behind it.

Wow that ist amazing, I never realize that. I thought this is only referred to Prophet Muhammad sas. as the Message to bring the truth about Mowla Ali.

Ok Thanks a lot.

[agakhani]

Besides the Quran, ask your Sunny freinds to read the event of Gadir-E-Khumm and they will deffinetly find that Prophet Mohammad declared Hazarat Ali as his succesor and "VASI" in the presence of many Muslims.
The other sources are our great ginans, if your Sunny fellow ask for other evidence let them read Gianans.
There are some Hadiths also mentioning events of Gadir-E-khumm and declaration of Imamat refer them one of them "Mishkat ul Masabih'.

[germany_ismaili]

Besides the Quran, ask your Sunny freinds to read the event of Gadir-E-Khumm and they will deffinetly find that Prophet Mohammad declared Hazarat Ali as his succesor and "VASI" in the presence of many Muslims.
The other sources are our great ginans, if your Sunny fellow ask for other evidence let them read Gianans.
There are some Hadiths also mentioning events of Gadir-E-khumm and declaration of Imamat refer them one of them "Mishkat ul Masabih'.

Yes that is true but only who belive what "Mowla" means. Many Sunni brothers think, "Mowla" means "Friend" the Friend of PUB. So the definition of Mowla is to some Sunni brothers unclear.

[haroon_adel]

Besides the Quran, ask your Sunny freinds to read the event of Gadir-E-Khumm and they will deffinetly find that Prophet Mohammad declared Hazarat Ali as his succesor and "VASI" in the presence of many Muslims.
The other sources are our great ginans, if your Sunny fellow ask for other evidence let them read Gianans.
There are some Hadiths also mentioning events of Gadir-E-khumm and declaration of Imamat refer them one of them "Mishkat ul Masabih'.

Yes that is true but only who belive what "Mowla" means. Many Sunni brothers think, "Mowla" means "Friend" the Friend of PUB. So the definition of Mowla is to some Sunni brothers unclear.

They don't want to find out the real meaning behind just 'friend'.

The Profet wouldn't stop the Caravan in the middle of the dessert, in such a hot weather, and wouldn't make a "Munbar" out of the camels, had the message wasn't as important as it is. So, the message has to be real significant, for The Profet and the muslims, to be announced that urgently. And to just simply announce that "to whomever I am a 'friend', Ali S.A. would be a 'friend'". I think there has to be a deeper meaning/message than 'friend'. wouldn't you think so?

[germany_ismaili]

Besides the Quran, ask your Sunny freinds to read the event of Gadir-E-Khumm and they will deffinetly find that Prophet Mohammad declared Hazarat Ali as his succesor and "VASI" in the presence of many Muslims.
The other sources are our great ginans, if your Sunny fellow ask for other evidence let them read Gianans.
There are some Hadiths also mentioning events of Gadir-E-khumm and declaration of Imamat refer them one of them "Mishkat ul Masabih'.

Yes that is true but only who belive what "Mowla" means. Many Sunni brothers think, "Mowla" means "Friend" the Friend of PUB. So the definition of Mowla is to some Sunni brothers unclear.

They don't want to find out the real meaning behind just 'friend'.

The Profet wouldn't stop the Caravan in the middle of the dessert, in such a hot weather, and wouldn't make a "Munbar" out of the camels, had the message wasn't as important as it is. So, the message has to be real significant, for The Profet and the muslims, to be announced that urgently. And to just simply announce that "to whomever I am a 'friend', Ali S.A. would be a 'friend'". I think there has to be a deeper meaning/message than 'friend'. wouldn't you think so?

Of course I would think so and I agree. As Ismaili I absolutley agree.
Its very difficult to have a dialog with Sunni brothers. Although they know they still find reasons that this cant be like that because otherwise their whole concept of believe will be wrong. But ok. I try to keep it very low.

[skaswani]

Also they believe, that of the Sura 3 ayat 7 no one else except Allah has the right to interpret Quranic Suras which are Mutashabihat

also check the concept of "Rasikhoon na Fil Ilm" .. the people authority in knowledge


if Allah has not granted this Ilm to Prophet and for that matter to Imams then how can he communicate that ilm with human??? bec we all know that Allah will not send any Prophet and God communicate with people / mankind from Prophets / Imams

[kmaherali]

There is also a discussion of the importance of the Ahl al-Bayt in our tradition under:

Doctrines --> Hadiths about Hazrat Ali,Ahl-e-Bait,PanjtanPaak

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... t=ahl+bayt

[germany_ismaili]

There is also a discussion of the importance of the Ahl al-Bayt in our tradition under:

Doctrines --> Hadiths about Hazrat Ali,Ahl-e-Bait,PanjtanPaak

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... t=ahl+bayt

Ok thank you. And all sayings which are mentioned on the link are to be found on Hadiths? I am not that good in Hadith because I dont need them so all Hadith are accepted by all Sunni Muslims or they ignore some of them?

[kmaherali]

Ok thank you. And all sayings which are mentioned on the link are to be found on Hadiths? I am not that good in Hadith because I dont need them so all Hadith are accepted by all Sunni Muslims or they ignore some of them?

The Hadiths references indicate those that are sound and are generally accepted as such by the Sunnis. There are also Quranic verses mentioned as well if you do not use Hadith literature. More discussion on the event at Ghadir at:

Doctrines --> "GHADIRE-E-KHUMM"

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... 77&start=0