Hai Zinda /Qayam Paya

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 11:32 pm

We use to say these words while entering in Jamat Khana. I know its importance and its meaning.What I want to know is from when this practice was started?

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Sun Feb 29, 2004 10:35 am

star_munir wrote:We use to say these words while entering in Jamat Khana. I know its importance and its meaning.What I want to know is from when this practice was started?

In the verse of the ginan "Tum chet man mera" , Sayyeda Imam Begum states:

gat maa(n)he jab aavo, tab Haizinda bulaavo
Fal amrapuri paavo, Shah Peer ka deedar

meaning:

If you come to the JK and said Haizinda, you will attain paradise and the deedar of HazarImam.

So it appears that it goes back to at least the time of Imam Begum.

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Sun Feb 29, 2004 10:31 pm

Even before Sayedda Imam Begum Pir Sadardin and Pir Hasan Kabirdin mention about this in Ginan.In one Ginan Pir Sadar Din says that
Ejee HaiZinda kehta hasti no daan
Qayam paya kehta daan turing

and Pir Hasan Kabirdin says
Ejee gat mahein aavi ne haizinda kijiye
to PirShah paar utaare

So the Practise was started at the time of Pir Sardin or before it ,at the time of Pir Shams or Pir SatgurNoor etc

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:07 pm

star_munir wrote: So the Practise was started at the time of Pir Sardin or before it ,at the time of Pir Shams or Pir SatgurNoor etc

Interesting!

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 1:21 pm

star_munir wrote:Even before Sayedda Imam Begum Pir Sadardin and Pir Hasan Kabirdin mention about this in Ginan.In one Ginan Pir Sadar Din says that
Ejee HaiZinda kehta hasti no daan
Qayam paya kehta daan turing

and Pir Hasan Kabirdin says
Ejee gat mahein aavi ne haizinda kijiye
to PirShah paar utaare

So the Practise was started at the time of Pir Sardin or before it ,at the time of Pir Shams or Pir SatgurNoor etc

Just to satisfy my curiosity, the following is the ginan verse.

ejee hayzee(n)daa kahetaa hastee nu(n) daan
kaayam paayaa kahetaa daan turee(n)g
tame satee lok seerevjo
bhaai amar gaddh paamo aagalle..............................15

By pronouncing 'hayzee(n)daa' in 'Jamaatkhaanaa' one does the charity equivalent (in value) to an elephant. If one pronounces 'kaayam paayaa' one does charity equivalent in value to a horse. You saintly people worship( with that understanding), brothers you will attain immortal fortresses(of security and peace) ahead.

From the ginan "Satpa(n)th Sat nu mukh chhe" by Peer Hasan Kabirdin.

The above ginan(which is very interesting) and ginan "Tum Chet man mera" (which I mentioned in my earlier post) are listed in the Ginan section but are missing! I will try to send them to the heritage site.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 9:53 am

Both ginans are now available in the Ginans Section.

_thaillestlunatic_ · Post by **_thaillestlunatic_** » Wed May 26, 2004 4:31 pm

YAM to all
hope everyone is fine

I was wondering why do most people in JK say"jamat ke hazinda" how does this change the esoteric meaning or is it right to say that or right to say just hazinda?

Any opinions/views anybody??

Thanks

aminL · Post by **aminL** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 8:01 pm

I believe that by saying Jamat Ke Hazinda does not make any scene. Because our Pirs have taught us to say Hazinda not Jamat Ke Hazinda. Hazinda means that Hazar Imam is Present and Living. Jamat Ke Hazinda means...oh Jamat tell me that Hazar Imam is alive and it does not make any scene. So seeing that out Pirs have taught us to say Haizinda we should not be sayin Jamat Ke Hazinda. Another thing is that during the times of our Pirs there were a lot of anti-ismaili sentiments present and they would try to sneak into our Jamat Khanes. So the Pirs devised a "code" for all Ismaili's. This word was Hazinda. Evey Ismaili was to utter this word when they came into Jamat Khane to infrom the people that he was an Ismaili...if the person entered without saying this then it would be assumed that he was a non-Ismaili and he/she would be thrown out of the Jamat Khane. This is the origin of the term Hazinda...Qyam Paya

sheri · Post by **sheri** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 11:28 am

Couldn't it probably mean that "Our Jamats Imam is Present and Living"

Jamat ---- Gathering.

Ke --- Refering to the jamat (The).

Hazinda --- Imam is present and living

So putting it together ----- The Jamats imam is present and living.

Just my opinion.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 3:15 pm

I would interprete it as Hazar Imam is present in the Jamat. I do not think that 'Jamat ke' changes the substance of the statement. It is after all the intent and the attitude that counts. Haizinda by itself is fine as well. In my opinion both convey the same message.

shamsu · Post by **shamsu** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 11:46 pm

YAM everyone

This is what I remember from hearing it

Gur Gat Jamat ke haizinda

It appears we are addressing Gur (Pir) and Gat Jamat (All present Ismailies) that (Shah) is alive and present.

Qayam Paya to me means He is ours for eternity. Another way to look at it--Qayam is one of the names of Allah. So it could mean Allah is ours.

SHAMS

karimqazi · Post by **karimqazi** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 1:12 pm

Ya Ali Madad to all

Thank you shamshu for sharing the meaning of gur gat jamat ke hizanda. The meaning you give is absolutely right. As for the qayam paya I had read in the quran somewhere that Allah says if you give me a loan i will establish you forever (qayam). I think that the meaning of quayam paya is sort of a reference to this.

This is just my opinion, what do you think? Any other opinions and explanations are appreciated.

May Mowla Ali bless you all!

from_Origin · Post by **from_Origin** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 5:13 pm

shamsu wrote: This is what I remember from hearing it

Gur Gat Jamat ke haizinda

It appears we are addressing Gur (Pir) and Gat Jamat (All present Ismailies) that (Shah) is alive and present.

Qayam Paya to me means He is ours for eternity. Another way to look at it--Qayam is one of the names of Allah. So it could mean Allah is ours.

SHAMS

YAM all

I've heard closely the same explanation (as Shamsu), my source being Al-waez Abu Aly's sermon. Info from other sources would be helpful in validating or invalidating the wordings.

My understanding of "Gur Gat Jamat Ke Haizinda" means:
GUR = Shah (and Pir)
GAT JAMAT = Gathered Momins
KE = Is
HAIZINDA = Alive (and Present)

So my interpretation is such: The Shah-Pir of Gathered Momins is Alive and Present.

I'm not sure of the word "Qayam" as it has several meanings, but Paya to me is "to have" or "to obtain".

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 6:45 pm

from_Origin wrote:I'm not sure of the word "Qayam" as it has several meanings, but Paya to me is "to have" or "to obtain".

These are my thoughts on it.

Qayam can mean ressurection or revival and Paya means attained. So Qayam Paya can mean You have attained resurrection (of your soul) by proclaiming Hai Zinda.

I prefer this meaning because it conveys a sense of tranformation and upliftment of mind and soul. That is what JK is supposed to represent.

_thaillestlunatic_ · Post by **_thaillestlunatic_** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 3:53 pm

so how did gur gut jamat ke hazinda

or jamat ke hazinda start?

by proclaiming these two does it mean you are showing ignorance
or does it mean all the same (gur gut jamat ke hazinda, hazinda,
jamat ke hazinda)

aminL · Post by **aminL** » Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:52 am

there is absolutly no need to say gur gat jamat ke hazinda or jamat ke hazinda..... why must this be a debate? If the Pir's have taught us to say Haizinda than why must ppl come up with new ways of saying something? This is a total lack of ignorance and in my opinion a pitty that we are having trouble upholding such a simple tradition of ours

_thaillestlunatic_ · Post by **_thaillestlunatic_** » Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:07 pm

can u plz give references that the Pir has said this

aminL · Post by **aminL** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:05 am

Read your ginans

_thaillestlunatic_ · Post by **_thaillestlunatic_** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:18 pm

can u plz give REFERENCES exact references for ur statements
othwerwise they are not true

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:28 pm

_thaillestlunatic_ wrote:can u plz give REFERENCES exact references for ur statements
othwerwise they are not true

The verses of the Ginans have been quoted in the previous page, in the beginning.

_thaillestlunatic_ · Post by **_thaillestlunatic_** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:37 pm

Thank you K,
I wanted it from Amin however,
so gur gut jamat ke hazinda is wrong then

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:11 pm

_thaillestlunatic_ wrote:Thank you K,
I wanted it from Amin however,
so gur gut jamat ke hazinda is wrong then

In my opinion, essentially there is nothing wrong. "Gur gat jamt ke" is an elaboration of "Haizinda". You are not changing the intent or the meaning by these extra words, rather you are making it explicit that he is everpresent in Gur Gat Jamat. Ultimately it is the niyat that counts.

I think what Amin is implying is that we should not change or corrupt the tradition if the tradition was "Haizinda" only as per the Ginans.

ShamsB · Post by **ShamsB** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 12:09 am

I think it's amazing and appaling as well as somewhat dismaying at the same time when we are spending pages and pages arguing about what to say when we enter Jamat Khana..one saying one is right..the other saying one is wrong..
i was taught either Haizinda, Gat jamat ke Haizinda, Jamat ke Haizinda or Gur Gat Jamat Ke Haizinda would work...
because it's the intent that counts..not what's said.
I wish we could devote this passion we have to a worthwhile cause...
educating our fellow brothers and sisters...volunteering..rather than attacking each other on this forum..
Let us share information in a brotherly manner.

Shams

_thaillestlunatic_ · Post by **_thaillestlunatic_** » Tue Sep 07, 2004 4:32 pm

Ya Aly Madat,

In the ginans in the previous pages it is said if u SAID HAZINDA you will
obtain paradise so to me as I intrepret it that is the only thing we should say in JK, all others are not wrong but if the Pirs have taught us to say Hazinda then we should do as they have asked.

sr75 · Post by **sr75** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:18 pm

I asked this at the other post but I think here would have been the best place - does it matter how loud we say haizinda (is it the same whether we just say it softly, or say it at a moderate volume, or should we say it loudly), but we shouldn't just say it in our head - right?

aminL · Post by **aminL** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:23 pm

I dont think that it would make any difference but you should however say it loud enough for etleast one member of the jamat to respond to you, say perhaps loud enough for the voulenteer standing by the door. However, this is a real issue in some jk's I will not mention which one, but the Jamat which I attend there is absolutly no response when you say Hazinda. There are people seated right by the door but yet no response. It is sad to see that such a beatiful tradition is going to 'waste' if you will. This declaration reminds us of the presence of Hazar Imam everyday and yet, you would think that with such a profound statement you would get a response and yet nothing. But yes I think that you should say it loud enough for etleast one person to be able to give u a response. If you do so and you dont get a response no worries, becuase your intenet was there and Mowla knows that.

annie_sunaira · Post by **annie_sunaira** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:28 am

Can anyone please provide a farman on hayzindah Qayam paya? I really need it for a Wa'az Assignment. I looked for it everywhere but couldnt find it...it should be in Imam Sultan Muhammed Shah's Farameen.

www.ismaili.net

Hai Zinda /Qayam Paya

Hai Zinda /Qayam Paya

Re: Hai Zinda /Qayam Paya

Jamat ke Haizinda

haizinda

Quyam Paya

Re: haizinda

Re: haizinda

gur gut jamat ke hazinda

Amazing