How many Adam

[nagib]

Adam is the name of each first man of each new cycle. ismailis do not believe in linear time concept like christians but in cyclical time where a cycle follows the previous cycle always...

Nagib

[unnalhaq]

I think the folks at Tariqua Board have very narrow felid of view. If they had a broader perspective it would be a too easy (to follow to Serat-e-mustaquim). I know for the fact that the conspiracy of folks at TB (I just realized as I am typing this, that they are the disease TB) prevents Jamet's access to Farmans that may point out that something that is as plain or blunt that the they may be doing wrong (sinning) and Farman points to it they do everything possible to have is concealed. I had one TB chair tell me that (after I produced an audio of Farman, that was pointing to something that they presently do is fundamentally goes against that Farman) "...those Farmans are illegal" eventhough The Present Imam specifically included the Regions (where we are) that Farman was directed to. Go figure! My father tells me that at one occasion jameti members approached the 48th Imam and ask "Why do you bestow the Titles/Appoint to leader’s position to the peoples who are clearly not very honest nor very good to others?" The Imam replied "...sometimes you have to put burden (title) upon those people because when you place heavy load on Donkeys (JACKASSES), in hopes of getting them to go on a straight and narrow path. However, the donkey, have the instinct of straying and kicking at times."

-------------------------------------[/quote]

Thank you for the information - The Gavhere Rahamat contains farmans which are edited and taken from Kalam E Imam E Mubin - in other words, the essence of the farmans is deleted to give unclear picture, which is not right by the people who did it. Not heard of Bahere Rahemat. Now the question is which farman appears in other books that are not covered in the book Kalam E Imam E Mubin?[/quote]

WHY NOT MAKE FARMANS AVAILABLE ON THE NET INSTEAD. ACCORDING TO ISMAILI TARIQAH WHEN ONE KNOWS ABOUT THE TRUTH AND THAT PERSON CONCEALS IT - THEN THIS IS A SIN.

ALSO QURAN REVEALS:

Al-Baqara - 2
42) And cover not Truth with falsehood nor conceal the Truth when ye know (what it is).[/quote]

[kmaherali]

Imam SMS farman has stated that " Pacchas hajar Adam thai gaya..."

(50,000 Adams have passed)

The following is a quote from Ibn Arabi's book "Divine Governance of the Human Kingdom" by Ibn 'Arabi as as interpreted by Sunni Sufi Shaykh Tosun Bayrak al-Jerrahi al-Halveti. This reinforces the view of many many Adams.

"As I was circumambulating the Kaaba, I saw a strange person, quite different in appearance from what I was accustomed to seeing among the people. As he walked around the Kaaba he continually recited, "We, like you, are circumambulating this House." I caught up with him and asked him who he was. He said I am your ancestor far removed."

"When did you live?"
"I died over forty thousand years ago."
"They say Adam, may Allah's blessing be upon him, was the first man,
and lived only six thousand years ago."
"Which Adam do you mean? Know that he is only the last
of one hundred thousand Adams who came and passed away before him."

[AlwaizaRashida]

YAM

There is a Ginan by Pir Sadardin Source: 600 Ginan - Bhaag 1: Ginan # 63 verse 11 (Eji Aad to alakh agiya ramiyo)
Composed by: Pir Sadardin

Eji Evaa annek Bhramaa aage huvaa
ane Aadam laakho karodd;
akhand to vishnav huvaa
pann nahi koi Shaah ni jodd

Please also read Tarikhe Farishta by Mohd.Qassim Ferishta Page no, 32
Ik shaks ne hazrat ali se sawal kiya Hazrat Adam ke 3000saal kebel kiya tha Aap ne Jawab deya ADAM Us ne 3 times pucha Mawla Ali ne yehe jawab dia .Akir kar Aap ne farmaya Ai shkhs jo muje ise teha 30 mertaba puchta hi reheja ke adam ke pehle kon tha to mera jawab bhi adam hi hoga kiu ke us ki hud na mumkin hai

[NQALI]

there is ginan saying"auth krore bharma age ten upaya.

[imranqbaig]

well according to my studies....there is no any fix number of Adams stated that they are passed till now...but can tell you one thing...there are as many Adams as a universe contains planets......

[hungama25]

and per the book of islam there is only one adam [as] created by allah , he was given the knowledge about the things which even angels never knew of....and then we know the story as how he was tricked by iblis[satan] and how he was send down on earth


we all believe in this right ???? so if there are 50,000 adam then did god send them on earth 50 000 times ???

or

did satan fooled adam for say 50 000 times ,


there is only one adam[as]as per book of islam and we are his spritual son i.e son of adam

[kmaherali]

there is only one adam[as]as per book of islam and we are his spritual son i.e son of adam

I think we have to make a distinction between Adam symbolic of the first man created and Hazarat Adam the Prophet. The latter is alluded to when 50.000 is mentioned by Imam Husein. There have been many many prophetic cycles.

[hungama25]

I think we have to make a distinction between Adam symbolic of the first man created and Hazarat Adam the Prophet. The latter is alluded to when 50.000 is mentioned by Imam Husein. There have been many many prophetic cycles.

what ???
hold on a second ,so you mean to say that h.adam[as] that was created by allah and to whom all angels did sajdah is different from prophet adam???

[Admin]

so you mean to say that h.adam[as] that was created by allah and to whom all angels did sajdah is different from prophet adam???

I think you have a long way to go on your search to understand this Adam story. There are many many interpretations across the Muslim world but for a start read this one:

http://www.ismaili.net/Source/0836.html

B S O S, VOLUME IX: 1937-39.

An Ismaili Interpretation of the Fall of Adam
By Bernard Lewis

[hungama25]

thank you admin , heres some questions for you

The evil aspect is as follows. Iblis is the tree, Adam being for bidden to disclose to him the true secret wisdom. The fact that the tree, although evil, is in the garden is explained by the statement that Iblis was formerly a da'i of some rank, but had been expelled for his arrogance and his rebelliousness.

iblis was not a dai but a jinn as mentioned in quran [jinns are made of fire]

1] can you prove me from any resource that he was a dai and not jinn ????

2] can you please tell me the difference between spiritual adam and adam as a human ???

[Admin]

As I said, you have a long way to go before you understand this article. But it is already a good progress that you read it.

Any moderately intelligent person has still to read it twice to understand what it says. It is not an article easy to understand. Since I am not in that category, I had to read it 3 times before I understood

Admin

[kmaherali]

iblis was not a dai but a jinn as mentioned in quran [jinns are made of fire]

1] can you prove me from any resource that he was a dai and not jinn ????

2] can you please tell me the difference between spiritual adam and adam as a human ???

You will find relevant sources and further elaboration in the discussion:

Doctrines --> Quran , Adam A.s and Pir's Revolution and Das Avvatar

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... 71e5cec247

[hungama25]

kandani wrote :

Prophet Adam was NOT the first human being:
Most Muslims believe that Prophet Adam of the Biblical and Quranic narratives and his wife Eve were the first two people on earth. This results from a mere literal inpretation of the Scriptures and that which does not correspond with scientific or rational thought. The Ismaili interpretation of Prophet Adam and the events of his period transcend the literalism professed by mainstream Muslims. Far from being the first man on earth, Prophet Adam was one of the men belonging to the Cycle before ours – in Hinduism this is the Duapourjug. Prophet Adam is called the ‘historical’ or ‘biblical’ Adam. He, like any other human being, was born of two parents. His mother was Harsa Devi and his father was Imam Honayd – who correspondes to the figure of the Budh Avatar mentioned in the Ginan of Pir Sadardin.

Quran 2:30 – Behold thy Lord said to the angels: "I will create a vicegerent – khalifa on earth." They said: "Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood?- whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?" He said: "I know what ye know not."

Quran 2:31 - And He taught Adam the names of all things; then He placed them before the angels, and said: "Tell me the names of these if ye are right."

Quran 2:32 - They said: "Glory to Thee, of knowledge We have none, save what Thou Hast taught us: In truth it is Thou Who art perfect in knowledge and wisdom."

Quran 2:33 - He said: "O Adam! Tell them their names." When he had told them, Allah said: "Did I not tell you that I know the secrets of heaven and earth, and I know what ye reveal and what ye conceal?"

brother meherali i guess you and all other ismailis believe that imam hunayd is the writer of quran or h.adam[as] had parents , but as i said its contradicting quran

imam hunayd = buddh avatar= father of adam[as](nouzbillah) went to pandawas palace [bheem and his brothers] as per our ginans

now tell me this brother meherali, what era were the pandawas living ?? what bc was that ???

do you know how old the vedas are brother meherali ??? if iam not mistaken the veda were written around 1500 B.C.E

before hindusim it was Zoroastrianisom so if adam was born to hunaid then we ismailis go against gods theory of mankind because according to the book of islam it is allah who created adam and not any human or animal :

7:11 It is We Who created you and gave you shape; then We bade the angels bow down to Adam, and they bowed down; not so Iblees; He refused to be of those who bow down.


and can you please tell me how many years did hunaid lived because as per ismaili theory it was hunaid and not allah who gave quran so if imam hunaid lived in hindu era then did he live for some 5000 + years ??? because after hinduism it was jews,christians and then islam

[kmaherali]

brother meherali i guess you and all other ismailis believe that imam hunayd is the writer of quran or h.adam[as] had parents , but as i said its contradicting quran

I hope you do not believe that Hazarat Adam was the first man. That would imply that man has only existed for 4000-6000 years! This contradicts all scientific evidence. Quran is open to many interpretations. The story of Adam can be interpreted in many ways according to one's faith and knowledge. The interpretation given here is based on the Ginans and the classical Persian Ismaili thinkers including Tusi. Imamat has been since creation. There were Imams before Hazarat Adam. Hazarat Adam was the son of Imam Hunayd. There is a thread which discusses Quran and the Imam at:

Doctrines --> Is Quran complete?

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... c&start=60

imam hunayd = buddh avatar= father of adam[as](nouzbillah) went to pandawas palace [bheem and his brothers] as per our ginans

now tell me this brother meherali, what era were the pandawas living ?? what bc was that ???

do you know how old the vedas are brother meherali ??? if iam not mistaken the veda were written around 1500 B.C.E

Pandavs lived in the Duapur Yuga. It could have been anywhere around 3100BC - 700BC. Imam Hunayd initiated the Kaljug and the present cycle of prophethood. For more information on the time frames refer to the thread:

Pre-Adam --> time period of jugs and avatar

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... pic&t=4616

before hindusim it was Zoroastrianisom so if adam was born to hunaid then we ismailis go against gods theory of mankind because according to the book of islam it is allah who created adam and not any human or animal :

As I said before you are mixing up the Hazarat Adam with Adam who was symbolic of the first man. Please read the articles.

You always have to keep in mind that in our tariqah there are zaheri matters which we share with others and there are batini matters which pertain only to our tariqah. From the zaheri perspective the Quran was revealed by God and from the batini perspective the Imams are the Speaking Quran.

[hungama25]

As I said before you are mixing up the Hazarat Adam with Adam who was symbolic of the first man. Please read the articles.

brother meherali without wasting you time and energy further , i just want you to put this in a veryyyy simple way :

1] who is adam and
2] who is hazrat adam[as] ??

i want either your's or brother shamsB 's interpretation please and not any link

thank you

salam
ya ali madad

[Admin]

At this point, I want to ask all of you not to reply to Hungama for simple basic reason that he is not interested in any reading on the subject nor questioning for the sake of learning.

When he writes "we ismailis go against gods theory of mankind" first of all he is insulting Ismailis' intellect, then he purports to represent "we Ismailis" and portrays us as enemy of the Quran. For what purpose?

This beside the fact that he poses as an Ismaili but his identity is evident from his posting.

Up to now the only repetitions I have seen in his posting all over the place is to say that Ismailis contradict the Quran, Ismalii Pirs contradict the Quran, ismaili Imams contradict the Quran etc...

There is nothing in his approach which is intellectual or a search.

The only thing that is consistent is a propaganda across the board for which there is no place here.

I have already issued several warning on how to post and what to post and can not keep repeating the same every other day for the sake of one person.

So do not be surprised to see this account deleted soon and the guy coming back under another ID with the same postings as in the past.

Admin

[shiraz.virani]

do we have any ginan showing there were adam's[plural] or he was a son of imam hunayd ?

[illuzone]

Shamsh:

Sometimes you cant take just anyone to the level required to understand such concepts and therefore is hard to post such items on forums. If the person would reflect rather than argue about serial numbers of Firmans, he would soon discover that Ismaili concepts run very much in concert with recently proven and established scientific concepts e.g. Human existence as proven by scientific discoveries goes back millions of years.

Human history, in the literature commonly available to most people (unless they seek deeper meanings and concepts) only trace human existence for maybe the last five thousand years. How do u then relate our religion concepts to scientific concepts to prove agreement with each other? The concept of 50,000 Adams goes a long way in proving the reality of human existence for a lot more than the 5000 years that most people are aware of. This concept, without going too deep into it, also explains quite satisfactorily the discoveries that propound the existence of previously existing human settlements, architecture, advanced modes of transport and tools and of course advanced people and cultures maybe even Atlantis.

Cyclical concepts put forward by Ismaili (a good book to read would Cyclical Times in Ismaili Gnosis by Henry Corbin) philosophers expound quite in detail on the existence of numerous Adams - one at the beginning of each cyclical cycle which begins with the creation of an Adam and ends with the coming of the Mahdi (or Imam) that heralds in the end of the particular cycle (or Qiyamat as one might dub this end of the cycle).

It is no wionder that we find numerous confirmations of this well established Ismaili concept in our firmans of our various Imam and also in the gianas of our enlightened Pirs.

eR

[---]

A little bit of info on what i was able to pick up from the book "Cyclical Times in Ismaili Gnosis" is about the myth of the "fall of adam" which speaks on how a particular event which has caused a catastrophe in heaven leads us backwards in time. Time which was delayed by this event and which we are conquering. The time that has passed because of this event is the time we have to reconquer. Once this time has been conquered the world will be closed up by the madhi. The book Cyclical Times in Ismaili Gnosis talks of the 10 intelligences and how adam falls back to the 10th intelligence from the 3rd he was currently on. The time that has to be conquered are the 7 intelligences in between the 3rd and the 10th.

This is what i was able to pick up on this particular event "the fall of adam". If anyone has more information on this it would mean alot if you could take the time out to post more. Thanks.

[RahmatHajikuttch]

there are more the 50000 Adams are passed before Adam who mention in Bible, torah & Quran. I have a link of a blog on which there are some 50 names are mentioned as a Imams before Adam (Imam Hunaid A.S). hub-e-ali.blogspot visit there i think this may help you.

YAM

[---]

this does help, thank you.

[kmaherali]

“Do you think that this is the only world that God created? That He did not create other races of humanity than you? Certainly not, for He has created thousands upon thousands of worlds with thousands upon thousands of Adams, and you dwell upon only the last of these worlds, in the midst of the last of these Adamic humanities.”

- Imam Muhammad al-Baqir, quoted in (Mohammad Ali Amir al-Moezzi, The Divine Guide in Early Shiism, pp. 168)

[hadih]

<P>I want to read Noorun Mubin. Is there any way that I can get copy in PDF format or scaned copy.<BR><BR>I will highly appreciate your help.<BR><BR>Thanks<BR>Hussain</P>

[kmaherali]

The Spirit of al-Faqr: Translation of Ain al-Faqr
Hadrat Sultan Bahu
Price: $21.00

Product Description

This is an English translation of Ain al-Faqr, one of the prominent works of the famous Punjabi poet and Sufi Shaykh Sultan Bahu. This book reveals the details of the hidden spiritual world, it also sheds light on the symptoms and divine signs of a true spiritual master. The spiritual relevance of Faqr is explained in detail. Much relevant information on the Qadri sufi order has been given in this book. It also asserts that many Adams have appeared on earth before the Adam that we know.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/144992 ... 410_snp_dp