samirnoorali wrote:Dear Unnalhaq:
It is imperative that certain aspects of history must be laid out in order to clarify the concepts of Piratan and the importance of ginanic tradition. The purpose of me writing to you is to remove uncertainties between Persian Ismailis and Khoja Ismailis.
It is unwise, I would say, to assume that an Ismaili from a Persian background should be forced to learn the ginans. I agree with you fully on that. As well, it is absurd to force a certain tradition upon a jamat that does not relate historically to specific events within that tradition.
Since you did mention that you are of Persian background let us start from there. Let it be clear that you are not an Arab, so therefore your forefathers converted to Islam as did the Khojas – be it in two different countries. Both of you already share that. So therefore, your history before becoming Muslims was certainly not Islamic, perhaps pagan, but certainly not Islamic.
During the conversion of Arabs, I am speaking specifically during the time of Mohammad, the conversion happened at a specific geographical location. No culture can say, in its entirety, that they had the privilege of having the Prophet with them physically other than the Arabs. I’m talking generally.
In this case you have the Prophet Mohammad converting Arabs to Islam. They had the privilege of being in the presence of the Prophet. They had the privilege of acquiring the hadiths and the traditions. When they came into contact with your forefathers, being Persian, why did they not question why a Persian should follow an Arab?
We are talking about a scenario where a Persian comes into contact with an Arab Muslim. The Arab would say: convert to Islam and obey the Prophet, the Quran, the hadiths, and the customary tradition of prayer and zakat. How do you think your forefathers must have reacted? These were completely different cultures. Different in language, different in race, different in geographical location. Certain Persians were converted by Arabs, certain Persians were converted by missionaries from whatever background. The end result is that you are a Persian who has adopted Arab traditions. Certainly that is the origin and the origin we all follow.
Now take that analogy and try to understand the Khoja perspective before accusing that tradition of being Hindu. Just like the Arabs had the Prophet Mohammad and whose sayings were written in a book called the Quran, similarly the Khojas had Pir Sadardin whose sayings were written down in poetic ginans by various people.
If you really want to get at the heart of Khoja tradition then only one aspect is worth noting. That is that the Pirs were not missionaries. They were not ordinary people as you and I are. That is the distinction you’re missing. That is the essence of it all.
Now let me go further in saying that Khojas had something that other Ismailis perhaps didn’t have. That is they had a living Pir with them. But then who is the Pir? Not many Persians pay particular attention to Pir Sadardin because he does not show up in their history. Even though he was a Persian himself, ironically, he has been neglected in Persian contemporary thought.
Pir Sadardin was the Prophet Mohammad himself. That is why Khojas revered him. That is why the ginans are considered holy. Just as the Arabs got Mohammad and the Quran, so did the Khojas get Sadardin and the ginans. Now is that at the exclusion of any other people in the world? Yes, unfortunately it is. That does not mean Arabs are superior for having the Prophet with them physically, nor does it mean the Khojas are superior for having the Pir with them.
Pir Sadardin was the Pir of the time. The Pir of the age. As was Mohammad the Pir of his time, the Pir of his age. This is a history which continued after the death of the Prophet. What really happened in history was that Ali was succeeded by Hussien as Imam and Hassan succeeded Mohammad as Pir.
One may say that this is a very new revelation which is contrary to “certain backgrounds,” but then again from what perspective does Ismaili history come from? Mostly it is understood from our Sunni brothers that Mohammad appointed Ali and he was the successor of the Prophet. Pir Sadardin came back to say, wait a minute that is one version of the story, but the other version is what actually happened. He linked Aaron, Simon Peter, and Ali together.
The other version is that Ali was appointed as Imam by his father Abu Talib. Upon the death of Abu Talib Ali became the Imam of the time. Till then he was not openly declared. After Mohammad’s death, Hassan assumed the authority of the Prophet. So therefore the Imamat and Piratan started with Ali and Mohammad. The version that Ali was the first Imam simply contradicts Imamat constantly being on earth.
I think you should wipe away your notion of history, or at least be open minded to other versions of history which follow a more logical pattern. These are coming from events which enable the Ismaili tradition to be somewhat contradictory to Sunni Islam. We are brothers with Sunni Islam, but the distinction is not only with Ali’s lineage, but also with the Prophet’s successors.
At this juncture you may be completely confused as to why I am saying this to you. I am saying these things so that you may understand that Khojas have an interpretation which explains why Imam Sultan Mohammad Shah appointed Karim as the Pir and Imam of the Ismailis. He did not state that Karim was a missionary and an Imam, he said clearly a Pir and Imam. Both offices. Both offices of Mohammad and Ali, or Hassan and Hussein.
Why then do the Sunnis or the mainstream Shias not accept these concepts? Because we are constantly avoiding a point. Without this point nothing I have said will make sense for you. The point is that Ali is the manifestation of Allah on earth. He is not a noor, a lightbulb, a tree, a lamp, a messenger, a pope. He is Allah. I cannot be more mathematically inclined. That is concept of faith. But the funny thing is that it is unavoidable.
So when you listen to the ginans have a certain amount of respect as you give to the Quran. For after explaining the connections to you clearly, then the Quran and Ginans are one and the same. Absolutely no difference. There is much allegorical value in Hindu traditions. Why the numerals from 0 to 9 are Hindu symbols. The Greeks adopted them very quickly because they realized that higher computations were made possible by the decimal system.
Nobody is asking you to be a Hindu or change your race. What is important in all this is that Pir Sadardin was the Pir for all Ismailis, not only Ismailis from India. He converted Ismailis in Iran, China, India and surrounding localities. If he was the Prophet Mohammad, or Gur Brahma to the the Khojas then imagine what mistake you have made in understanding this history. It is imperative that all Ismailis respect the Pir and his words because he is the noor of the Prophet himself.
If you want to also take recent history into account recall that Imam Aga Hasanali Shah came with whom to India from Iran? He came with Pir Aga Ali Shah. The firmans of Pir Aga Ali Shah, who later became the Imam, is something of history you must take into account. There are fifty Pirs who belong not just to Khojas but to all Ismailis. They are blood related to the Prophet. Therefore Pir Sadardin is your Pir, your tradition, your history, as so far as the faith is concerned.
In summary, read the ginans in an English translation if you don’t understand the language. It is not important that you must know the ginans, but that you should have respect for the office of Piratan. Without that there is no faith. Forget what happened 1400 years ago. This history is closer and recent. It talks about the continuation of the Prophet, something that the Quran lacks.
I know your frustrations. Sometimes you feel that Khojas are domineering. I think that debating the matter between the two of you was certainly healthy. Both have something to learn from each other, but don`t compromise a fact just because it isn`t part of your immediate history. Don`t ever say from now on that ginans have a Hindu tradition or that Khoja`s needed ginans to fool them in to conversion. Because as history points out, nothing Pir Sadardin said matches the Quran or the Veds. It was called simply, ``the true path.`` It was esoteric, it was new and fresh. Perhaps you have learned an additional dimension of Imamat. In the final analysis who said Allah was easy to understand?
Sincerely,
Samir Noorali
Just a couple of corrections..
1. Pirs have been with almost all Jamats.. It is only from the 15th Pir (Pir Mohammed Shah aka Pr Satgur Noor) till the 28th Pir (Pir Tajdin) that the Pirs were with the Indian Jamats. Also, from Pir Aga Ali Shah till Pir Sultan Mohammed Shah. All of the other Pirs lived with various other Jamats (many, many of which were in Iran)
2. I believe Pir Sadruddin only converted in India (maybe a few in other places) but I think you're referring to Pir Shams who converting in many different countries.
3. My opinion on this, and it doesnt seem to be shared by many, is that Hindu thought (avatars, jugs, etc) were not simply a conversion tool. Krishna, Ramayan, Buddh, etc. WERE IMAMS during their times. This is the beauty of the Ismaili religion. It did not start at the time of Prophet Muhammad (saws) but it started well, well before that. It is from the beginning of time and is the only tariqah to acknowledge these other divinely inspired guides preceding Hazrat Adam, which have also been scientifically proven.
It frustrates me to an extent when Ismailis say that Krishna was only referred to as conversion (in other words as a lie) so that people become Ismaili. This is simply NOT true. Farmans of Mowlana Sultan Mohammed Shah supports the concept of Das Avatars. Was Mowlana Sultan Mohammed Shah lying to the Jamat as well? Most of us were converted several centuries ago, but others act as if we're still converting into Ismailism.
4. Pir Sadruddin was not the first to link previous Imams such as Aaron, Simon Peter, Shem, Seth, etc. together. This is from much earlier work during the Fatimid era. It is also in the sayings of Mowlana Ali.
5. On saying Ali is Allah, not noor, rope, lamp, etc.. It is a huge sin to believe Imam is Allah at the Shariati level as indicated by Mowlana Sultan Mohammed Shah. I have no doubt that the Imam is Allah, but be careful not to believe this at the shariati level.
Ismalis from other traditions, who are not from the Indian subcontinent, will have doubts on the adoption of Hindu concepts. I understand these doubts, most of my friends are Ismailis from other traditions. They come from countries which are purely Islamic countries so this is very foreign to them. What this process has done for me is made me understand more clearly why the Prophet (saws) did not introduce some of these pre-Adam concepts to the Arab people. These preceding times were pre-shariat times. Hazrat Adam (as) brought the shariat with the start of the most recent cycle. However, many Ismailis from different traditions are coming to learn who these Imams were prior to Imam Honayd, and I think this is a good thing, something we should not forget and leave out of our history.
